Things a conservative mistakenly thinks liberals believe

It gives me great satisfaction to correct conservatives, who, as I said in a previous post, are more fact-challenged than liberals.

Someone left a comment on that post, after I noted that Pete Dominick had asked on his radio show: What's the weird unfactual stuff many liberals believe that is equivalent to conservative lunacies like Obama being a Muslim?

He offered up ten supposed answers to the question he phrased as, "What's the weird unfactual stuff many liberals believe?" I'm pleased to correct him on each.

1. that killing coyotes means more coyotes

(1) Yes, I said this in a blog post, and I'm a liberal. I supplied evidence to support this assertion, quoting from a "Living With Coyotes" factsheet distributed by the city of Tigard here in Oregon: For these reasons, eradication efforts frequently lead to increases in local coyote populations.

And coyote expert Robert Crabtree says: The common practice of reducing adult coyote populations on western rangelands is most likely ineffective and may even increase the number of lambs, fawns, and calves killed by coyotes. So killing coyotes often does mean more coyotes, as well as more livestock deaths.

2.that science proves man made global warming (because the facts do not back it up they send emails back and forth ploting to fake the data)

(2) This one is easy. Ninety-seven percent, 97%!!!, of climate experts consider that human-caused global warming is happening. Anyone who believes otherwise refuses to face the scientific facts.

3.that republicans are more racist and sexist than dems (while there are people that did not vote for obama because of race, there are many many more that did vote for him just for that reason alone. Most who did not and do not want him as POTUS came to that conclusion because of his failed policies)

(3) I don't know any liberals who call Republicans "racist" or "sexist." But I'm sure they exist. Question is, can that conclusion be justified by Republican actions? Not directly. However, the contraception and abortion debates show that Republicans don't believe women are capable of making decisions by themselves. Doonesbury nailed this in recent comic strips.

4.that the constitution of the USA has the words "seperation of church and state" anywhere in it

(4) I don't hear liberals claiming this. However, the First Amendment definitely implies that church and state are to be separated.

5. that it is ok to call women twat's and discuss what they would like to do female canidates it the bedroom just because they do not agree with them

(5) Many liberals believe this? Show me some evidence. Back up your assertion with facts. We're talking "many," not just a few people. Or a single person.

6.that radical terrorists can be negotiated with

(6) Poll, please? Where's the evidence that many or most liberals believe this? Obama was the president who oversaw the killing of Bin Laden, not Bush. Obama has killed more terrorist leaders than our previous Republican president did: In the process, the White House said, it has killed more officials of Al Qaeda in the last two and a half years than were eliminated during the entire Bush administration. 

7.that guns kill people(best bumper sticker ever "guns kill people like a spoon made rosie odonell fat"

(7) In England and Wales, where gun ownership is severely limited, 8% of homicides are committed with firearms. In the United States, with a very high rate of gun ownership, 65% of homicides are committed with firearms. So, yes, guns kill people. 

8.that people in this country illegally should be able to get public services, licenses, and vote in our elections

(8) This isn't a factual/unfactual assertion. I agree that more liberals than conservatives believe that undocumented immigrants to this country should be able to get public services, like health care. Also, that it is better to have them pass a driver's test, than to drive without a license. I've never heard of liberals saying that non-citizens should be able to vote.  

9.that vetting a presidential candidate is great unless that canidate is a dem. then we should just believe whatever he or she says

(9) This also isn't a factual/unfactual asertion. I'll point out, though, that Obama was scrutinized extremely closely in the 2008 election. Everything about him was brought out into the open and discussed in excruciating detail. 

10.that saying USA USA USA in USA is racist

(10) I have no idea where you get the idea that liberals believe this. Me, I consider that chanting "USA, USA, USA!" is stupid, unless, maybe, it's done at the Olympics. But even then, I'd say it's stupid. Regardless, stupid isn't racist.

Comments

[bob]

i did not see that you made a new entry before I made a reply on the previous entry.

you will find my reply to another attempt at a rebuttal there, and it answers your points as well.

I did notice that on about half of the points you said you agree that dems believe what I said they believe. we just disagree on wether or not they are misinformed beliefs. on several others you claimed ignorance and I will accept that from you.

[bob]

it seems that my hope for meaningful discourse here was misplaced. anyone that believes a coyote is more valuable than a human fetus is truly lost.
anyone who alignes themselves with someone who calls for a "more civil discourse" and them proceedes to praise the notion that anyone who disagrees with them about abortion laws is commiting the public rape of women is beyond reason. You would have to be blind to not see that millions tune in to hear filth from maher yet there is no out cry because the left loves it.

While the republican party commits its fair share of iniquities, it is clearly the closest to the high ground. while there are things (and people)in it I won't defend, there is much more that I will never appologize for. Indeed there is much to be proud of.

you do not disagree with the points I made, you embrace them. I will leave you to your made up science, hatefull museings,and misguided cense of justice. but I will also pray for you and this country. I will choose to do this because just as you have a choice to spew hate towards those who disagree with you I have free will and with that will I choose compasion and understanding.

[Brian Hines]

bob, I responded to each of your claims with a reasoned, mostly factual response. I couldn't respond factually when you only offered a personal opinion, as you did several times.

Almost certainly you don't have free will, even though you think you do. So you necessarily believe what you do, which includes your almost certainly mistaken belief in God.

If certain beliefs give you pleasure, that's one reason you hold onto them. Just don't mistake belief for truth. Reality is much bigger than we are. Reality is what we should worship, not our fantasies.

Thanks for sharing your ideas. I appreciate and value that. You just shouldn't expect that I, or anyone, will automatically accept what you say, just because you say it. Without evidence, beliefs shouldn't be accepted.

[tucson]

"7) In England and Wales, where gun ownership is severely limited, 8% of homicides are committed with firearms. In the United States, with a very high rate of gun ownership, 65% of homicides are committed with firearms. So, yes, guns kill people"

--If 8% of homicides are committed with firearms, then 92% are committed with something else... knives, bricks, bombs, poison, shovels, pictures of Nancy Pelosi, you get my drift.

That's right. Bricks kill people. In countries where there is a shortage of bricks such as the New Guinea highlands I imagine homicide by brick is pretty rare.

I think I prefer to live where I am more likely to be killed by a gun than a shovel or brick (probably quicker in most cases). I'll take the 65%. God blessed America with guns, that's for sure.

And never bring a brick to a gunfight.

[DJ]

What do liberals believe? A liberal named Brian Hines believed a 2008 vote for Obama would fix a list of five things that Obama’s had no positive impact on whatsoever.

Here are your words, Brian, (http://hinessight.blogs.com/hinessight/2008/06/barack-up-lars.html) from 6/22/2008:

“…Nobody is perfect. No presidential candidate is perfect.
But if you're happy with where the country is now...

--$4 gas, with no coherent energy policy in sight
--4000 deaths in Iraq, with no coherent end of war strategy in sight
--huge deficits to pass on to our children and grandchildren, with no coherent budget balancing policy in sight
--Al Qaida and the Taliban still flourishing in Pakistan and Afghanistan, with no coherent terrorism fighting strategy in sight
--habeas corpus and other constitutional guarantees being thrown out the window, with no return to democratic principles in sight

Then, by all means, vote for McCain. He's promising more of the same. Me, I expect more of our country. That's why I support Obama -- because I love the United States, and I'm tired of slipping into second-rate status. “
****************************************************************************************

So, Brian, where do we stand after 3+ years of Obama? By your definition we're still second-rate:

- Gas is back up to $4 a gallon.
- We’re out of Iraq on the Bush timeline.
- Avg. annual Bush era deficit = $250 billion. Avg. annual Obama deficit over three years = $1.3 trillion. http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php
- Al Qaida and the Taliban still flourishing in Pakistan and Afghanistan, with their watches set to the announced Obama withdrawal timeline.
- And I don’t have to tell you about Obama’s record on habeous corpus. All that ‘close Gitmo’ campaign rhetoric had you pretty lathered up I’ll bet.

How’s all that Hope and Change workin’ out for you, Brian?

[Blogger Brian]

DJ, good job at researching that comment of mine. I'd forgotten about it.

Yes, Afghanistan and Pakistan are still screwed up. Deficits are still a big problem. Obama hasn't been terrific on the habeas corpus front, or on killing Americans without a court order front. I'm disappointed in these things.

But on the whole, Hope and Change are working a heck of a lot better with Obama than they would have gone if McCain had been elected.

-- This country has the imperfect, yet hugely better than nothing, Affordable Care Act. Millions of people already have gotten health insurance they didn't have before. Other benefits are rolling out steadily.

-- Automobile efficiency standards have been markedly raised. The stimulus program has encouraged renewable energy, along with saving the US auto industry, and avoiding a collapse of our economy.

-- Gays are equal citizens in the military. Big plus.

-- Financial institutions have more oversight, though they're trying to weasel out of necessary regulations.

-- Osama Bin Laden is dead. We're out of Iraq. Libya is freed from Gadaffi. Troops are set to be withdrawn from Afghanistan.

All in all, my wife and I are happy with Obama. Want to bet if he'll be re-elected? I predict a majority of American voters are going to choose him over the Republican candidate, likely Romney, come November.

[DJ]

Fair enough, Brian. You're a good sport and none of us has a crystal ball.

But I am curious about something. With $4 gasoline and a Democrat in the White House it's a rare thing indeed to find a liberal who believes the POTUS can influence gasoline prices in any meaningful way. Yet, based on your 2008 comments you clearly do.

So the question is, what did you believe Obama would do as President to keep gasoline prices under control? Maybe more importantly, what was he saying in 2008 that made you even think he wanted to?

[Brian Hines]

DJ, you're right: the president can't influence gas prices. Here's the evidence.
http://nyti.ms/wbEVxI

What the president can do is make our country less affected by rising gas prices. Obama has raised fuel efficiency standards, which is equivalent to lowering gas prices (more mpg you get, the lower the cost of filling up).

Domestic oil production is up during the Obama administration. Percentage of our use that comes from foreign sources has down. Obama has encouraged electric vehicle use, which are very low cost to drive per mile.

So I'm happy with Obama on the energy front. Wish he was addressing global warming more directly, though.