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July 28, 2010


So you would favor ending all borders and letting anybody from anywhere in the world to enter and live here, work anywhere they want, with no controls from the government at all?

That's fine if you feel that way but be honest about it, the costs of it, and stop making border states pay for the dishonesty this country has shown by wanting jobs under the table to save themselves money. We do it with a lot of things, and this is one that most Americans don't suffer for but the ranchers who live right on the border, even the illegals who have to use coyotes to bring them up, they all pay for the laziness and dishonesty of Americans. You want open borders, work for that.

It is totally wrong how it has been and Arizona has seen what happens where you do not up here living in a 'sanctuary' state where the illegals are encouraged to come to get benefits and not be even asked if they are citizens if they get arrested. Three sanctuary states and many cities have profited from the system as it is with that under the table worker.

It's easy to blame Arizona for this when you don't have the faintest idea what it is like for some down there or even what the workers have to do and pay to come up here (sometimes with being brutalized by those human and drug smugglers). At least if we made the border irrelevant and let in anybody who came along, we'd cut down on some of the profit those smugglers are making. The rest could be solved by legalizing the drugs many Americans also 'use' but also prefer it to be illegal for some kind of misbegotten sense of righteousness, I guess.

The government could also enforce the immigration laws that it has in the Constitution and actually the Obama administration has done more of that then in the past, but the border either is stopped or it won't help, and there are a lot of people profiting from keeping it exactly as it has been.

You don't go to Nogales, Sonora to see what has happened to what used to be a happy little border town. You don't have to go into the back country of Mexico or Arizona down there and run into ruthless people who have come up there for one reason-- smuggling. IF people like you, who have been angry at Arizona for trying what they did, forget about this now and do not demand real immigration reform that CLOSES the border to illegal entry, then you are being very unfair. If you complain about their idea to solve the problem and get it stopped, I suggest you push for what you think would be better and I guarantee you if it's purely amnesty, it won't do a thing to stop that border from being what it has become or what we have helped create in Mexico just south of it.

Hines, just because an immigration lawyer (ie paid shill) writes a piece purporting to rebut 15 “myths” doesn’t make them all myths. The Roach piece is extremely misleading.

Let’s just take a few critical supposed myths:

1. The myth that illegals “don't pay taxes”. Sure, they pay a little sales tax, but that’s not really the question, is it? The question is: if we legalize them, will they pay anything like as much as the cost of providing the services they will consume. And the answer is definitely No.

2. The myth that illegals “abuse the health care system”. For people who wonder if their presence is a good thing or a bad thing, isn’t the issue whether they fill up emergency rooms? Uhh, if you think that’s a myth, why don’t you wander over to one of them and see what you find.

3. 10. The proposed immigration reforms in Congress are just another amnesty. ‘Amnesty’ is a vague term, but the real question is: do they end advantaged, or disadvantaged, due to their choice to violate our laws? For example, are they ahead, or behind, someone from their home country who went to the embassy and applied to immigrate? The answer in every case is “far ahead”. So you are rewarding lawbreakers—no way around it.


This country is permanently changing, whether people like it or not..

Beth, thanks for that banal and useless observation. When you are making policy choices, the question is what the consequences of each choice will be. We now know from what's happened in AZ (since they passed the anti illegal hiring law a couple of years ago) that illegal immigrants will self-deport in very large numbers when a state makes it uncomfortable for them to remain. So we have a choice: shall we make it uncomfortable, or shall we make it extremely comfortable (through legalization)? Well, given that we are in danger of doing down the tubes like Greece due to our disastrous budget deficits, don't you think it might be sensible to ask what would be the budgetary consequences of legalizing millions of illegals, and making them all entitled to free education, health care, kidney transplants, what have you?

Unfortunately, some people are permanently unable to think objectively and numerically about social policy choices, whether we like it or not.

harlie, heres's the facts that you chose to ignore:

There are many millions of illegal immigrants in this country. Many, or most, of them are working at jobs that Americans don't want to do. Our economy would crumble without those workers.

So they aren't going home. It would be impossible, both physically and economically, to deport them. The question then becomes, how to handle those who are already here?

Keeping those illegal immigrants in the shadows isn't wise. Bringing them into our legal, tax, and other systems makes a lot more sense.

Earned citizenship or earned resident alien status isn't exactly "amnesty." Illegals would have to jump through quite a few hoops before becoming legal.

That said, I do have some concerns along the lines you talked about. How do we pay the costs of adding millions more people to our society?

But they're already here. We're already paying most of those costs. Yet we aren't getting all of the benefits, in terms of tax revenues, compliance with laws (like having auto insurance), and such.

That's why I favor comprehensive immigration reform.

South or East or West or North, whatever direction thay came into this country ILLEGALY from ...Illegal,Illegal,Illegal

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