As I've done in previous posts, here's an email interchange I had recently with someone who visits this blog regularly and likes to share ideas with me.
I WROTE:
Yes, giving up the feeling of being special is indeed a relief. As you’re probably aware, I’ve written about this from the perspective of index investing. Trying to beat the markets both takes a lot of work and has been proven to usually be a waste of time, since investors typically buy high and sell low, rather than the reverse.
THE OTHER PERSON REPLIED:
Hi Brian, thanks for writing. I really like that last paragraph. “Unless God is that nothing, in which case I’m decidedly enlightened”. Awesome.
I really enjoyed the post, Here’s a positive sign of my (mini) enlightenment.
And I can totally relate to much of it.
This part really got me thinking:
“But now I've come to feel something different, and seemingly more attainable. I simply want to be as fully aware as possible of whatever it is I'm doing until I take my last breath. What that whatever is doesn't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.”
Good stuff!
I was thinking about something sort of similar recently. I was listening to someone talk about things they want to do before they die. Like the bucket list you mentioned. This person happened to be a Christian, so the list consisted of things they believed God wanted them to do, and some of their own desires.
Funny how those are separate. And they felt like if they didn’t accomplish the God stuff, they wouldn’t get their full reward and all that. Sounds exhausting! But I get it. I used to think the same way.
I’ve noticed that, after practicing mindfulness to varying degrees for the last few years, that I don’t really have a list of things I want to do, anymore. I’m mostly content to live day to day. That doesn’t mean that I don’t have a few things I’d like to do in the near future, but they aren’t things that are on an important list.
Even if I did have a list of cool stuff, and was able to do most or all of them, the memories and emotions tend to fade pretty quickly. Especially when living mindfully. I was kind of laughing thinking that when we die, assuming there is nothing after all this, we won’t remember any of the cool stuff because… well, we will be dead. LOL
And if there is some kind of afterlife that’s anything like what people think, it will probably be cooler than the cool stuff we did here, so the stuff we did here will pale in comparison.
I don’t know if this sounds nihilistic or not, but I don’t think of it that way. It doesn’t mean that I don’t plan fun activities. Like this summer, my wife and I will celebrate 25 years of marriage and we will go to Florida for a week. I’m sure it will be great. But I’m not driven to cram in as much stuff into my life as I can before I die. It just seems more relaxing that way.
I’ve noticed something interesting going on with me. I don’t have any atheist friends. And I only have a couple of friends who would probably be considered agnostic. I’m finding myself feeling, I guess lonely, for lack of a better word. I know for a fact that is why many people go to church. It’s part of their social life.
Christianity is so prevalent in this part of the country that it permeates everything. So it kind of changes how people view the world and life. I know my views on most things have changed drastically since I left religion behind.
I was meditating with a Buddhist friend on Sunday mornings for a while and we had some really good conversations after our meditation time. But we stopped meditating because his schedule changed. I didn’t realize how much I enjoyed being able to talk to someone about my current views without judgment until recently.
So I find myself reading blogs and listening to podcasts. Not really to learn something new, but I guess it’s that human need to hear other people say things similar to what I believe. It’s interesting to hear people talk about going from a religious life to an atheist life. Lots of similarities in their stories. I guess that kind of makes me feel not as alone as well.
I hope you and yours are well.
Talk to you again soon.
Why do religious people go on atheist sites?
Here's a positive review of my new comment policy on this blog, where I now moderate (approve) comments before they're published. One day in, I'm enjoying the lack of off-topic crazy comments from dogmatic religious believers.
I regularly exchange emails with the person who wrote what follows. John used to be religious, but now, like me, he's seen the atheist light.
John makes some good points. I don't know any atheists, which includes me, who go to religious sites and try to convert believers to atheism. But this churchless blog gets many visits and comments from religious people.
Why? Well, like John says, I agree that believers in God get a lot more defensive when someone questions their religion, than atheists do when someone questions their lack of belief in God.
Which makes sense.
I don't get upset when someone questions why I don't like country music. Since I don't have any attachment to that type of music, it doesn't bother me if a country music lover thinks I'm a fool for not being a fan of that genre.
Plus, atheists are used to being put down by religious people, while this is much less common for believers -- given that the vast majority of people in the world believe in some form of supernatural divinity.
This is the message I got from John today.
Hey Brian, I saw where you are moderating comments again. Good for you! I think I’ve talked about this before, but I can’t understand why religious folks go on sites like yours and try to convert people, or “prove” that others are wrong, or whatever. It seems very common.
I wonder if atheists go on religious sites and rant and rave and such? I would think there are some, but my suspicion is that it’s less common.
I kind of understand why the religious folks like to argue their points. I was never really zealous in my religious days. I was very serious about my faith, but I didn’t argue with many people who didn’t believe like I did. But I think it’s more threatening to have a believer’s beliefs questioned than it is for a non-believer to have their non-beliefs questioned. LOL If you know what I mean?
There were a few times that I got into a discussion with an intelligent atheist or agnostic and they would ask me questions that I just didn’t have the answers to. That was very unsettling!
I thought the cartoon that you posted was great, as well. Oh man, how accurate is that? I remember, in my early days of walking away from religion, I read a lot of Wayne Jacobsen’s material. At that time, he talked a lot about how religion always seems to have a hook in it.
“Invite your non-churched friends to the church picnic!” Why? Just so you can get to know that and bless them and see that they have a good afternoon getting to know some great people? NO! It’s so we can get them to come back, and eventually get them saved. And then they will tithe, of course.
And inevitably, if they get worked on long enough without getting saved, then they are normally discarded and the believers move on to someone else. Often with the attitude from your cartoon. I’ve heard many a church member say something along the lines of, “well, I’m glad they are going to hell”. Really?!?!? WTF? Ugh.
I have yet to hear of a blogger whose mind was changed by the religious comments on their blog. And vice versa.
In my experience, and in others that I’ve talked to, any time a person makes a big change in their beliefs, it’s usually because something happened to make them start thinking and seeking answers. Now, in that seeking they may come across someone who says something that will help them down the road a bit.
But the classic knocking on someone’s door out of the blue and converting them to your beliefs, or flooding someone’s comment section, usually doesn’t have the desired result. Most of the time, it actually works in the opposite direction! The person being preached to normally walks away just that much more sure of their own beliefs.
Thanks, as always, for the great posts.
Talk to you again soon.
John
Posted at 08:51 PM in Atheism, Comments | Permalink | Comments (9)
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