Why religious disillusionment can be more painful than political or work disillusionment

Today the Oregon Government Ethics Commission voted to move ahead with the investigation of a complaint against the Mayor of Salem and city councilors that I'd filed last March with the Commission. I wrote about this on my Salem Political Snark blog in "Ethics Commission approves investigation of my complaint against Mayor Hoy."

That made me feel really good, as I'd put quite a bit of time and effort into researching and filing the complaint. I did this because it bothered me that Mayor Hoy appeared to have engaged in prohibited private "serial communications" with members of the City Council that resulted in the forced resignation of the City Manager, Keith Stahley.

But here's the thing.

Though it definitely seems to be the case that Mayor Hoy did something that's prohibited by Oregon's public meeting law, I wasn't all that surprised that this happened. So I wasn't disillusioned by what Hoy did, because I don't have high expectations for ethical behavior from politicians. The same applied during my pre-retirement years: often I was disappointed by how my supervisors or fellow employees behaved at work, but I wasn't disillusioned, since I didn't expect them to be anywhere close to perfect.

No one expects politicians or business leaders to be saints. At least, I'm not aware of anyone who thinks this way. However, when it comes to religious organizations, the situation is different. Sainthood is bestowed in the Catholic Church on deceased members of the church who have demonstrated a supposedly high form of spirituality and kinship with God.

Going further, some Eastern religions -- including one I belonged to for 35 years, Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) -- teach that there are Perfect Living Saints on our planet today who manifest divine qualities, being considered God in Human Form, just as Jesus was. So if someone is a believer in RSSB or the broader Sant Mat ("path of the saints") movement that RSSB is part of, they are prone to looking upon a guru of their faith as a saint, and not a mere human being.

This helps explain why followers of religious organizations in general, and saint-focused organizations like RSSB in particular, are more likely to be severely disillusioned when they observe leaders of their organization behave in ways that are not only unsaintly but unseemly even by everyday standards. The sex abuse of boys by Catholic priests is a clear example of this.

Sex abuse is always a bad thing. However, it becomes an even worse bad thing when the abuse occurs at the hands (or other body parts) of religious leaders who are viewed by followers of their faith as being trusted spiritual guides. That's when a feeling of disillusionment really sets in -- when someone has put their heart and soul into trusting a priest, bishop, minister, guru, or some other religious leader and has experiences that cause that trust to dissolve in a bursting of their "I trust in you" bubble.

This has happened to me. I've seen it happen to other people I know personally. I've also observed it occur in the many messages I've received since I started this blog in 2004 from people who want to share with me their disillusionment with a religious organization or religious leader. This sort of disillusionment can be much more painful than disillusionment with a politician or business leader who acts badly.

It is more painful because the expectations were higher, so a failure to match those expectations by a religious leader involves more of a fall. People are attracted to a religious organization in part because it promises to be a refuge from worldly problems and concerns. Putting one's faith in a higher power, especially a higher power that is immanent in another living human, can feel absolutely wonderful. But when that faith is dashed by observations of behaviors that are decidedly flawed, it hurts. 

Much more so than when a politician or business leader fails to meet our expectations, since few of us look upon those people as modern day saints. That role belongs to religious leaders, which is why it can so disturbing when they let us down.

Comments

[Arun]

Truly said. No one expects perfection from politicians and businessmen. But one does expect perfection from so called saints. When that perfect image is shattered, disillusion happens.

[UM]

@ Arun

Maybe it is all a matter of society and culture and the changes over time that create these expectations, expectations about a "role" or the "actor that performs".

I do remember that in my youth and the family I was raised in, there were certain values and meaning ATTRIBUTED to the role, the office and others to the "actor" the one that "performed" ...the performer was just seen as a random human being, beings that could be pleasant or not, a source of inspiration or not, have charisma or not etc

We were taught to respect a role GIVEN to a certain person, carried out by a certain person.

Over time this has changed and it differs from culture to culture.

And it should be said that ....."I" ...I never heard a priest say that humans acting as priests had to be perfect ...in roman Catholic circles nobody expects a priest, bishop, cardinal or even the pope to be perfect as they are all human

And ...later coming in contact with the late MCS I have heard him say many a time in fron of the audience, grabbing his legs stating ..look ..THIS is not the master ..and pointing at the audience ..and YOU are not the disciple.

I also witnessed many times that "HE" said that he did not understand or knew a thing ...but ... the people in the audience would not take the man on his word and among themselves they would say ..He knows, but his humility prevents him to speak up ...
HE ...he would time and again state that nothing in this universe could be perfect in absolute terms and that even the "perfect" masters had to go through his human karma.

Would the same standard be appleied upon seekers for initiation ..probably no-one would aver be accepted.

Who has the courage to say here that he or she DESERVES initiation and access to the divine realms??

For that reason honorable Rumi said ..please do come AS YOU ARE ...but DO come.

I never understood why people wanted their parents, teachers etc to be perfect .... why? ...because whether they are perfect or not it does not affect acting out my own role.

Perfect parents do not make me a perfect son, I could be in theory be a perfect son to my very imperfect parents etc .
It has never helped me that this or that teacher was perfect, in getting my grades in school .Nor has the perfectness of my friends made me a better friend

[UM]

@ Arun

We in the west we hold in very high regards the political system we call DEMOCRACY
Because this or that person is not appreciated for the way he or she is acting out their role as politician we do not act out AGAINST democracy

Democracy ...OFFERS ..everybody the op[opportunity to live a democratic way of live, be he president, politicians or citizen.

Sant mat, offers also ..a way of life. ..that ..WAY ..matters

[Ron E.]

I guess it’s all to do with investment; whether it’s political or religious leaders, there is a strong tendency with us humans to attribute qualities to people (and things) that is more to do with our innate predilection to attribute meaning based on our own particular leanings.

As with religious leader, people do expect political leaders to deliver what they are expecting or hoping for. Perhaps the difference is that religious leaders offer the ultimate bonus of some sort of existence after death.

It’s perhaps an offshoot, or a continuation of our inbuilt tendency to look for and project meaning and purpose; something that is exhibited from an early age and continues into adulthood. And perhaps due to our quite natural fear of death, of annihilation, religious and other spiritual persuasions appear quite attractive.

It’s interesting that all other creatures being instinctively programmed to avoid death, when the time comes appear to accept their fate, whereas humans, with the capacity to form abstract concepts, cover the inevitable up with ideas of life after death. When it comes to political leaders, there is the more mundane promise of making people’s lives profitable and happy.

Either way, whether we invest in the worldly or spiritual, we are programmed to attribute qualities and meaning to people and things that conform to our habits of thoughts – and not to the actualities, the realities of life.

[Um]

@ Ron e.

Growing up, I was never taught. by word or otherwise, that parents existed to make their children happy nor were we expected to make them happy.

From there we never expected anything from anybody ... the teacher is not there to do anything for me as a student. He has his duties and I mine

Is it the duty of a partner to make one happy??

Later I became to understand this as ... outsourcing of personal responsibilities ... OTHERS being made responsible, for what one does feel, think YOU have to make happy ... offices of psychologists are filled up with this misunderstanding of life

[Um]

And ...an American president said do not focus on what the nation (And anything and anybody else) can or should do for you .. but .. ask yourself what you can do for this nation to flourish.

These days many have come to believe that their best contribution to the welfare of themselves an to what is near and dear to them, is to criticise others, to DEMAND it from others and that if they fail to perform so, they have all rights, say duty ..to blame eternal

[Um]

Or to speak with the words of the supposed teacher of Carlos castaneda:
In order for anything and anybody in society to function optimal ... you HAVE to believe it is " perfect" ..impacable ..flawless

In contrast if you start to doubt, you are undermining the very possibility for the approach or growtw of perfection.

[sant64]

You're all over the place with this one. Picayune local political issues to Catholic sainthood to the RCC sex abuse scandal to a claim/implication that RSSB "abused" you (sexually? That was the context you were working from). What is it all about? It's all about your reluctance to admit that you sometimes don't know the difference between legitimate criticism of a religion and baseless character assassination.

Publishing accounts of disillusionment with practicing RS? Good

Publishing scurrilous, wholly uncorroborated accounts of deviancy at the Dera? Bad
https://dineshchandrachinastory.freecluster.eu/2020/12/09/well-stated-criticism-of-rssb-guru-and-satsangi-behavior/?i=1

Publishing news stories about the Ranbaxy financial imbroglio at RSSB? Good

Making wild speculations that Gurinder had his wife murdered? Bad

Having political opinions? Good

Constantly telling us that everyone who disagrees with your political opinions is a member of a "cult"? Bad

Let me put it another way: Consider your theme that everyone is sometimes wrong. Consider that it applies to you too. Consider that before you write your 1000th consecutive blog post celebrating how you are right and these people over there are wrong.

[Tej]

That's why I can appreciate to a certain level, the wisdom of the crazy wisdom Masters such as Trungpa Rinpoche. I also consider Osho to be a crazy wisdom Master of sorts.
They shattered the preconceived perceptions of what a Master was supposed to be like, in the traditional sense.
Perfectly Imperfect

[Um]

@ tej

That being the case, the value of a teacher in any activity is it his fame but his capacity to hand over a teaching and a practice. Reciprocal positive feelings are a great help but otherwise it doesn't matter who or what he is.
Again ... the path..And ...the walking is the sole thing that really matters for each and every individual. VR

[Um]

Is NOT his fame

[7]

First time I fread y were sexuelly assaulted or neglagted
I alwys understood Gurinder s indifzerence did it
7

[777]

I REFLECTED ONE HOUR
And see only one solution
ATTEND A DASDEEEP. SATSANG !!
777
GUD SHOWS HIMSELF THROUGH SERENDIPITIES ONLY
Jasdeep can give u again what u lost
Flabbergasting is this

Even Lauren may be. Saved from chaurasi
777

[777]

The same 4 RICO
777

[UM]

@ 777

>> GUD SHOWS HIMSELF THROUGH SERENDIPITIES ONLY
Jasdeep can give u again what u lost<<

I first had the find out what the meaning is of the concept "serendipity" .. I came to understand that it is finding B while searching, seeking for A.

I know of people that said to me that they lost themselves and in order to help them I would go sometimes onto my knees and search my room, looking for their "lost self" under the carpet, under the furniture ..but...i could never find it.

These days a feel sorry for those that seek and cannot find and will try to console them by making them a cup of coffee.

[Spence Tepper]

It is inevitable if anyone takes meditation or prayer or devotion of any kind of pursuit of truth seriously, that such effort in time yields insight. And insight is a little different view. Not what you think today. Maybe not even what you think you want. Reality is going to be different. But that can only be disappointing if you carried expectations. So effort yields progress and that requires letting go of old expectations. And letting go of old thinking, and really all thinking, is part of creating a space inside yourself to receive something far, far more precious than opinions.

The God you seek is within and no where else.

Are you learning from your practice? Are you getting better at it? Is your mind setting things aside more now, in favor of peace and harmony? Are you seeing things now from a larger perspective? A more peaceful and harmonious perspective?

Then it's working. Stay with it. Practice is more important than judgment, because your judgment will develop and be different as you practice.

I suggest that love is more important than judgment. Hope for the day, work for the day when the two become one within you.

Q "Master, must I give up truth in order to find love?"

A."No. We want you to raise your love so that on a platform of love you will find the Truth."

[Jim Sutherland]

Greeting Skeptics. I have been working on my final Theses to this forum, since being disrespected by not only AR too afraid to even use a real Name, as well as an Ex friend, Manjit, whom I wasted far too many personal friendly emails with, thinking he was a real friend, who even turned against me, but real Karma caught up to him, being accused by the Puppy leg humper, AR, that Manjit is “Just Like Jim”.

Since not a single Churchless Churcher, came to my rescue, I assume all of you are pleased of my absence. So, here is my final Theses, for you to consider, based on my Blog posts that I have always invited you to review.

After reading, please consider NOT comparison g me to Manjit, as Puppy AR did, as I am not Manjit, or any thing like any o e in the Church. I have taken years, to bri g my Re I;ts for your examination here, which have been scoffed at, and refused, calling me a Liar, Hallucination, among other choice names.
Listen, you skeptics, you atheists, you wanderers in the cold void of reason! I’m James, an 83-year-old soul who’s walked the maze of time, from the incense-soaked pews of Portage Lake, Maine, to the inner realms where light and sound dissolve illusion. My knees trembled as a boy under Father Albert’s crucifix, my heart pounded through decades of seeking, and now, in the twilight of my odyssey, I stand before you, not with dogma, but with a truth that burns brighter than a thousand suns. You think the universe is a blind machine, a cosmic accident with no meaning? I’ve tasted the eternal oasis, and I dare you to step out of your sterile labs, your smug certainties, and face the mystery that’s been calling you since your first breath. This is no preacher’s plea—it’s a rebel’s roar, forged in the fires of Sant Mat, Advaita Vedanta, and a lifetime of wrestling with God’s shadow. Hear me, and let the truth set you free!

“You scoff at faith, calling it a crutch for the weak. I get it—I’ve ranted against blind belief myself, as I wrote in Faith or Fallacy. Faith isn’t about swallowing fairy tales or clinging to a bearded sky-daddy. It’s the courage to dive into the unknown, to question your own smugness. I was an altar boy, chanting Latin, but the real God wasn’t in the golden tabernacle—it was in the silence of my soul, where questions like “Why am I here?” echoed louder than any hymn. Science gives you maps of stars, but only the mystic’s path—Surat Shabd Yoga, the inner sound I found in Sant Mat—shows you the star within. In Meditation for Neophytes, I taught seekers to listen to that sound, a vibration that hums beneath your doubts. Close your eyes, skeptics, and hear it. It’s not Jesus knocking—it’s your own soul, begging to be free.
You laugh at God, but have you considered I Am God, Duality Vs Non Duality? Advaita Vedanta stripped away my illusions, revealing that I—yes, this weathered Maine boy—am Brahman, the infinite consciousness. You are too! No separation, no duality, just one reality, shimmering beyond your microscopes. Buddhism’s no-self, Taoism’s flowing Tao, Jainism’s pure soul—they all point to this truth, as I wrestled with in my odyssey. You’re not a speck in a void; you’re the void’s creator, trapped in time’s maze (Jim’s Maze). Don’t take my word—sit still, as I did, and feel the oneness. Your atheism is just a mask for fear, fear of being more than meat and neurons. Peel it off, and see.
You roll your eyes at the afterlife, dismissing it as wishful thinking. I’ve weighed both sides in Reincarnation Vs. Resurrection. Christianity’s resurrection, from my altar boy days, promises a one-shot rise in glory. Sant Mat and Jainism’s reincarnation, though, see the soul cycling through countless lives, bound by karma, as I explored in How Do We Get Out of Here Without Dying. I choose the mystic’s path: escape the cycle, not by dying, but by ascending within, through the inner sound to Sach Khand, the true home (True Home). You think death’s the end? Then why does your heart ache for eternity? That ache is your soul’s memory, whispering of realms beyond your labs. Test it, skeptics—meditate, as I urged in Seeking God: Where To Seek Him, and find God not in the sky, but in your own depths.
You sneer at miracles, demanding proof. My thesis, Healings, Miracles and Faith, dove into this fire. Miracles aren’t magic tricks; they’re the soul’s alignment with truth, where the impossible bows to the eternal. I’ve seen healings—not in churches, but in the quiet of meditation, where faith moves mountains within. Buddhism may doubt miracles, but Advaita sees all as Brahman’s play. You want evidence? Look at your own existence—a universe birthed from nothing, a consciousness that questions itself. That’s the miracle, and you’re living it. Stop measuring, start marveling.
You judge the world, cloaked in rationality, but Judge Not taught me compassion trumps condemnation. You’re not my enemy, skeptics—you’re my kin, lost in the same maze I’ve navigated. Soul Convicts Wanted was my cry to souls like yours, yearning for freedom but shackled by doubt. I’ve walked through Creator Uses Trickle Down……’s cosmic hierarchy, Alone In The Universe’s solitude, and Ultimate Freedom’s liberation. Each step screamed: truth is within, not without. Taoism’s Wu Wei, Buddhism’s mindfulness, Jainism’s Ahimsa—they all echo this, urging you to flow with truth, not fight it.
So, skeptics, here’s my final challenge, sealed with John 1:1—“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” That Word isn’t a Bible verse; it’s the sound current of Sant Mat, the Brahman of Advaita, the truth that’s been your birthright all along. You don’t need a “Sinner’s Prayer” to grovel—you need a rebel’s courage to seek within. I’ve offered you my odyssey, from Portage Lake’s pews to the eternal oasis. Take one step: sit in silence, ask “Who am I?” and listen. The maze will crack, time’s chains will fall, and you’ll find the truth that sets you free. Dare to try, or stay trapped forever. The choice is yours.
Jim Sutherland

[Jim Sutherland]

Sorry for typos. My Blog has been my RECEIPTS I always shared here.
Jim Sutherland

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jim
Why not ask chat gpt to help you boil your ideas down to something shorter? Even if someone loved your views, the length is burdensome. I use it now and then and it has greatly improved my writing, even when I don't use it.

Brevity is a gift you give to others just as surely as your ideas.

[umami]

Jim wrote, "You don’t need a “Sinner’s Prayer” to grovel—you need a rebel’s courage to seek within."

Jim (and Spence),

Contrast that with "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

Here's my thought. Jesus was misunderstood and misquoted. He would not have encouraged possession of the earth. The "blessed" part was a corruption. He was actually warning against meekness because earth has no ultimate value.

Please discuss.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Umami
The earth that God created as described in genesis, where the garden of eden is, is not this physical earth. It is where we want to return to. That is our inheritance. The meek, those who accept reality and their destiny as it is, as gifts from their father, are the inheritors.

"13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them."
Hebrews 11: 13-16

[umami]

Thanks, Spence. I hope Jim chimes in too.

[Appreciative Reader]

Ah, Jim's back.

I haven't the stomach to do more than note the empty insults he comes bearing, from the depths of his overflowing heart, this pathetic completely shameless old man, who seems unable to open his mouth without those brilliant "puppy dog" references; and to simply point out the ...the utter halfwittery that his thoughts and ideas are, that everything he says is: and to move well beyond the range of the vileness and the unabashed halfwittery that comments here seem to have degenerated to.

(Wouldn't have touched this turd with a bargepole, except to highlight the egregious and unprovoked insult thrown in, once again. After this, I won't do even that much.)