U.S. bombs Iran. What happens next is unknown. But Trump is thankful to God.

Today B-2 bombers attacked Iran's nuclear sites on the order of President Trump. I'm no fan of Trump, to put it mildly, but this isn't the worst thing he has done. 

Iran has been denying that it seeks to build a nuclear bomb. But it's been enriching uranium to levels that are far beyond what's needed for civilian nuclear purposes, such as generating electricity. Israel is justifiably concerned that if Iran did get a nuclear bomb, it could be used to destroy much of their country.

Problem is, life is inherently unpredictable. Wars, even more so. At the moment there's no reliable evidence as to how much damage the B-2 bomber attacks caused to Iran's underground nuclear facilities.

The best case scenario would be that the attacks were successful, Iran doesn't retaliate in a major way, Iran agrees to a peace deal with the United States and Israel that guarantees Iran won't reconstitute its nuclear program, and a pro-democracy movement takes hold in Iran that ends the fundamentalist Islam control of the country by a single person, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that the best case scenario will happen.

As the saying goes, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. Iran will respond in some fashion. Then Israel and the United States will respond to that response. And so it will go, actions spurring reactions in a series of events that are impossible to predict.

 A Washington Post opinion piece, "Trump is in danger of repeating Bush's Middle East mistakes," makes some good points about all the ways things could go wrong after the initial American bombing campaign today. (The link is a gift from my subscription, so everybody should be able to read the piece.)

Excerpt: 

The hawks envision a quick strike against Iran’s Fordow nuclear facility. Such claims eerily echo boasts from more than 20 years ago that President George W. Bush’s Iraq War would be a “cakewalk.” In reality, a U.S.-Iran war would be anything but quick. The Israeli military and intelligence apparatus achieved some spectacular results in the first days of the conflict. Then again, so did the U.S. military in the first days and weeks in Iraq.

The problem is what comes after the dust from the first strikes settles. Military strategists have long warned that the dream of an air-only campaign is just that. U.S. bombers have attacked Fordow with bombs designed to burrow deep underground. But since Iran built this facility under a mountain, it will be difficult to assess the extent of the damage without inspectors on the ground.

Even if the Trump administration could satisfy itself that a “one-and-done” operation had achieved all that was necessary, as the saying goes, the enemy gets a vote. A cornered, vengeful Iranian leadership enjoying a rally-around-the-flag effect may feel the need to escalate. Iran could close the Strait of Hormuz, through which about 20 percent of the world’s oil supply traverses, and target vulnerable U.S. bases across the Middle East with an arsenal of sophisticated short- and medium-range missiles that have yet to be impacted by Israeli airstrikes.

Attacks on U.S. bases would require the United States to respond in kind. And there we’d have it: another big Mideast war, unfolding amid the American public’s exhaustion with wars in the region. It would confound the stated goal of U.S. policymakers — left and right, and going back to the Obama administration — to shift scarce resources toward the strategically crucial Pacific region. And yet another generation of U.S. service members would devote their lives to unnecessary conflict.

Whether or not those scenarios happen will be known in coming days, weeks, and months. Probably our strike on Iran won't be as successful as Trump hopes it will be, nor as disastrous as opponents of the strike are predicting.

We do know, though, that God is on our side. Trump said so in his brief speech to the nation tonight.

Closing his remarks, Trump thanked God.

“We love you, God, and we love our great military,” he said. “Protect them. God bless the Middle East. God bless Israel, and God bless America.”

Of course, undoubtedly Iran's leaders are saying the same thing to their people -- God is on our side.

Comments

[CH S N Sreenivasa]

War begets war. no doubts about it. No body can decide who is right. Unfortunately, people do not remember the words of Macbeth:

MACBETH.
"She should have died hereafter;
There would have been a time for such a word.
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing."

[Ron E.]

Given that Iran, Israel and many countries in the Middle East are some of the most religious countries in the world, just shows that the high-minded principles and beliefs they espouse simply do not work and are impotent when it comes to benefitting people’s lives. Mind you, the God of the Old Testament was a pretty vengeful God – but we are told by apologists that such vengeful sayings in the Bible and Quran are taken out of context.

Leaving all that aside (it’s a quagmire of interpretations), is it possible for mankind to ever live peacefully and intelligently together? Sadly, I think not mainly because a prime thing is lacking from our mentation which I see as the conditioned inability to understand ourselves.

Religions and other belief systems have injected their particular beliefs onto us which, like lemmings, we adopt and follow rather than explore our own mental worlds, our own motivations and our own nature’s. It seems that we still carry much of our animal ancestry of survival of the fittest, yet with us, now incorporated into the survival of ‘me’ – which includes all our various beliefs and identity ridden concepts.

Wars and aggression have always been our lot in spite of the marvellous acts of compassion and advances in many ways that improve and protect our lives. But overall, it is all dependent on how we or ‘me’ is benefiting from the particular system we live under – and some, much better than others.

[manjit]

Hypocrisy, double standards and unconscious (at best!) bigotry 101:

"I'm no fan of Trump, to put it mildly, but this isn't the worst thing he has done. "

Iran has been denying that it seeks to build a nuclear bomb. But it's been enriching uranium to levels that are far beyond what's needed for civilian nuclear purposes, such as generating electricity. Israel is justifiably concerned that if Iran did get a nuclear bomb, it could be used to destroy much of their country."

Let's contextualise this Zionist mainstream media talking point that Brian has mindlessly parroted here.(predictably, Brian has never, as far as I'm aware, EVER been able to demonstrate any kind of independent or critical thought regarding politics, it's clear he merely absorbs and then parrots whatever CNN tells him, and absurdly then imagines he's thinking for himself!)

Israel already HAS nuclear weapons. They do not allow nuclear inspections. They are not a member of the nuclear non proliferation treaty.

Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons (and just 3 months ago Trump's Director of National Intelligence Gabbard testified to Congress they weren't building one, and of course Netanyahu has been repeating this lie that Iran is 2 weeks away from having them since the 90s). Iran is also a member of the NNPT.

Iran hasn't attacked or invaded another country in at least 400 years.

On the contrary, Israel is CURRENTLY engaged in an OPEN and SHAMELESS genocide against the Palestinian people and has launched military strikes on about 6 countries in the past few weeks alone. Truly an incomprehensible level of barbarity and aggression that will reverberate in humanity for hundreds of years to come.

Israel and by proxy USA's meddling in middle eastern affairs has literally resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent Arabs over the past 25 years. Literally MILLIONS. A level of suffering only matched in it's magnitude and incomprehensibility with the magnitude of the ignore-ance of this HORROR by almost the entire civilian population of the western world; inhuman savagery and barbarity. This also resulted in groups like ISIS (who you will notice never attack Zionist targets, being their patsys).....Islamic terrorism is a PRODUCT of western and zionoist Imperialism. Zionist media DO NOT WANT YOU TO EVER RECOGNISE THIS FACT.

Iran is an ancient civilisation of many thousands of years. Israel is a settler colonial project created by racist entho supremacists less than 100 years old.

So the question become, WHY, PRECISELY, does Brian think ISRAEL, a country which already has nukes and has CLEARLY shown it is psychotic and unhinged enough to use them, is "justified" in launching illegal acts of military aggression against Iran, but there is no "justice" in Iran having them as a deterrent?

I mean, it's pretty obvious.....pretty obvious indeed..... regardless of all that cognitive dissonance that must be deafening in the heads of all these so called "liberal" or "spiritual" folks who were falling over themselves in their righteous & hysterical criticisms of Putin launching a CONVENTIONAL war against NATO expansionism on Russia's own doorstep, painting him as some kind of unhinged and unique evil in the world, who are now witnessing one of the greatest crimes in humanity's history, the Palestinian Holocaust, and Israel's uncontrolled blood and war lust, killing more children, journalists, medics, destroying all hospitals, places of worship, schools, even graveyards etc etc than any other conflict in history, making even a scumbag like Putin look like a ultra decent and rational man.....a country that is pathological in it's desire for war against other sovereign nations....and yet remain totally silent about Israel and the US governments (Biden, Trump or Kamala....it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever) acts of savagery, barbarity and INJUSTICE which far transcend anything Russia has done over the past 4 years. It is incredible to behold the ultra-transparent hypocrisy, double standards and lack of integrity. Leave aside the lack of humanity.

.....But Brian thinks this is "justified" and for the first time ever (!!) he's shown something approaching acceptance and even praise for this dangerous "fascist"; "I'm no fan of Trump, to put it mildly, but this isn't the worst thing he has done. "

It is very, very sweet that Brian has been able to finally....finally!... bond with Trump over his military support for a racist, genocidal, settler colonial project that has already killed millions of Arabs, against a country (an ancient civilisation no less!) that has already been culturally ravaged by more than a century of colonialism, resource theft, political meddling/coups!

I'm sure you guys have a way of painting this as the "civilised" view, and what I'm writing as perhaps "anti-semitic".

Have at it with the lies you have to tell yourselves to sleep at night.

[um]

The past years, with the raise of the global media, it has become a practice with finding faults of the past elite, even centuries ago, but also with the political, religious etc elite of today.

But what if these faults are "real" and kept secret and be used to blackmail the elite of today and force them to act as they dictate?

Have some coffee and ponder what the secret service of, say Russia and Israel, would do with such information?

[um]

@ CH S N Sreenivasa

There are not many people in any country that have the luxury,[ political, economic intellectual etc] to stay out of the "herd" and look upon the actions of the Herd and their "shepherds" and attribute poetic, philosophical and spiritual meaning and value to what they witness...while sipping their tea, wine or coffee.

[um]

Well Manjit...

In the past I wrote several times about the "evil of wealth" and alsi how that relates to the raise of the aggressive forms of Islam.

That "evil" was proposed by the west under the leadership of the USA .. america first

These conflicts that are going on to day are ALL related to that "evil" .. There are countries, with ideologies, religions etc that fear that if they accept that western way of life under the political umbrella of "democracy" they will be forever .."retarded communities" ..that have to be looked after by "democratic nurses and caretakers"

Just think for a moment ... everything comes at a price ... expansion, be it in all social cultural fields of interest is, given the geography of the different countries and ideologies not the same.

Just imagine the construction of cable and rube networks ... I one country the soil can be opened the whole year around as the underground is of clay and sand etc and in the other granite and mountains... so the cost for creation of welfare of the population is not the same in all climate zones.

The whole world is "used" to make the western world to enjoy their wealth, and while they do that in other parts of the world people are seeing that wealth, shamelessly displayed on the media, while they have to toil for that wealth and at the same time live in missery.

[Appreciative Reader]

“Today B-2 bombers attacked Iran's nuclear sites on the order of President Trump. I'm no fan of Trump, to put it mildly, but this isn't the worst thing he has done. (…) Iran has been denying that it seeks to build a nuclear bomb. But it's been enriching uranium to levels that are far beyond what's needed for civilian nuclear purposes, such as generating electricity. Israel is justifiably concerned that if Iran did get a nuclear bomb, it could be used to destroy much of their country.”

Wow, seriously?! I disagree completely.

To begin with, the prospect of Iran immediately, that is to say in the very near future, putting together a nuclear bomb/s, is not borne out by any evidence, nor supported by International watchdog bodies. This is Iraq all over again.

As for Iran generally being in contravention of IAEA inspection mandates, that is small change compared to Israel actually possessing nukes, already. While that isn’t officially acknowledged, that is common knowledge, that Israel has nukes. Given that, and given Israel’s abysmal record as murderous bully to its neighbors, and its demonstrably psychopathic disdain for life and human rights of its Gazan and West Bank Islamic/non-Jewish citizens, and given the ongoing genocide of its Gazan populace, it is the height of double standards to take Iran’s relatively minor contravention of IAEA norms as grounds for direct attack by the US.

I mean, I'm at a loss to imagine how this even works, other than in strictly tribal and partisan terms. Israel is “justifiably concerned” at Iran’s nukes, really? Israel, that possesses nukes itself, and that has repeatedly shown itself willing to destroy other nations, and destroy its own non-Jewish citizenry? No, that sentence simply doesn’t work, unless one uses the word “justifiably” not in a moral or ethical sense, but only in purely pragmatic terms. But then, seen in those shorn-of-morality-and-ethics-and-rule-of-law purely pragmatic terms, Russia is equally “justified” in its concerns at Ukraine’s growing proximity to the West and to NATO, and the Ukraine invasion by Russia is “justified” as well. (No, I don’t think it is. I’m just trying to highlight, emphasize, the absurdity in claiming that Israel is “justified” in its concern at Iran’s nuclear program.)

I have to say I’m surprised --- astonished --- to see you take this line, Brian. It is a morally indefensible one.

[manjit]

AR: "Wow, seriously?! I disagree completely."

WHOOOOAH there, integrity alert, integrity alert!! :-O

Hey, AR, remember when you criticised me for showing a modicum of sympathy towards Brian and Ukranians for my double standards, but said nothing at all to Brian, despite HE fully embodying what you were being critical of, and I, as I have proven since, not sharing the same views about NATO's hypocrisy and double standards, despite my repeated attempts to clarify at the time?

Ah, good time, good times.

Never a moment when integrity intervenes......oops, except here!

Well done, wonder why now though?

:)

[manjit]

Dear Um - you write ""evil of wealth""

Indeed.

You no doubt are aware of the historical fact that so called western "civilisation" is built on colonialism, genocide and stealing the natural resources of South America, Africa and Asia, then taking it back to Europe and North America.

The western world's wealth and prosperity is merely savagery, barbarity and theft dressed up as "civilisation".

And then they get upset when the people from those countries that have slaughtered people in and stolen all the wealth from their lands, and continue to do so to this day, come to take some of that unearned western wealth back.

The sheer hypocrisy, double standards and lack of decency is breathtaking.

PS - I cannot find the thread now, but I wanted to write a quick thank you for voicing your concern that Israel, in it's forced starvation of children etc, and it's death camps masquerading as aid centres, is beyond the pale of human decency.

Thank you. Everyone should raise their voice until voice of genocidal monsters is drowned out by decent human beings with a heart.

[um]

@ Manjit

After pointing at the relationship between the "evil of western wealth" In relation to the mondial conflicts of today a rather strange thought occurred to me namely that the birth and growth of the Dera has some strange similarities with the birth and growth of the state of Israel although these similarities have nothing in common with the strategy behind the birth ... when Baba Jaimal started out there was no intention to create an ashram

What I want to point at is the how the "evil of wealth aspect" was handled by the late MCS.

The dera, once people were allowed to put up their "tents" in order to be close to a mystic / teacher, the problem of housing and feeding became a major problem. Not directly and not immediately but overtime that "need" would collide with the interests of the surrounding community and it did.

That said ... the Dera always understood that their growing wealth might have unwanted consequences for the neighborhood ... When I was young "old" wealth would "hide" themselves and their wealth, so that they could enjoy it in peace ...these days "the new" wealth, not always deliberately, displays its wealth by means of the modern media ...so out of that understanding of human nature they did their best to have those living around the dera could take part in that wealth and enjoy its pleasures for free.

You see, the wealthy life conditions in the dera, would not have been possible if they were not made possible by lots of "outside help". ...the same is with Israel!

Israel could not have been established as a nation without the help of forces outside ..people came from outside, knowledge, and financial help

If they would have done with the local population what was done by the Dera management for their local people, they would not be in war with anybody.

If they think that they can live in Israel like in an holiday resort while the surrounding people live in miserable conditions, they have not understood human nature and certainly not read what Lao Zi had to say about wealth, the display of wealth and the robbers.

Only when the Israelis start to look after the welfare of the surrounding population they can hope to live in peace

[Appreciative Reader]

“WHOOOOAH there, integrity alert, integrity alert!! :-O”

And, prior: “Have at it with the lies you have to tell yourselves to sleep at night.”

----------

I am loath to touch this piece of patently disingenuous dramaqueening. Engaging with this kind of dishonest mentality makes me feel …unclean. Nevertheless, I now find myself constrained to point out the utter hypocrisy of this endless exercise in shameless dramaqueening.

Back in September 2024, I had clearly spelled out for @manjit the absurdity of his opposition to Harris, and his de facto support of Trump over Harris, on account of the ongoing Israeli genocide. Here’s the link: https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2024/09/harris-trump-debate-shows-how-political-lies-are-like-religious-lies.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e202c8d3bd76a8200c#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e202c8d3bd76a8200c

This was at a time when we had been on perfectly good terms, he and I. This was part of an ongoing discussion between him and me. And while I had stated my position on this numerous times, before and after, here in this linked comment I specifically spelled out my argument for him, in very clear terms.

Briefly, the argument, as far as this aspect, is this: Yes, the Israeli genocide of Gazans is horrific. Yes, Biden’s Israel policy is indefensible, evil. But Trump is --- as at that point, back in September 2024 --- already demonstrably more hawkish, and more blindly supportive of Netanyahu’s vile policies, than Harris (who was then running) --- and, at the very least, not likely to be any less supportive of it than Harris. So that, as I had very clearly argued, there is zero reason to expect Trump to be any better in this respect than Harris, and indeed there might arguably be some hopes of Harris maybe being less supportive of Netanyahu’s murderous intentions than Trump might be. And, with elections imminent, it is incoherent, therefore, to oppose Harris’s candidacy, and thereby to de facto support Trump, specifically on account of the issue of the Israeli genocide.

@manjit’s astonishing response --- astonishing to me, at that time, although no longer so --- was to not engage with that argument at all, despite my pointing this same argument to him multiple times; and to instead pretend to have “eviscerated” my argument, despite not having engaged with it at all; and eventually escalate those attempts at gaslighting to actual personal slights and insults. All of that is amply borne out in that thread itself (although the actual direct insults only started a bit later on).

What I’d argued has come to pass. And no, I don’t claim any prescience there, nor claim any particular credit there. It was no more than common sense, my position then, that I had clearly articulated in that comment of mine, and that has been amply borne out now.

----------

Again, I feel …unclean, engaging with @manjit’s patently disingenuous posturing: but I thought it right to strip away his empty pretense once and for all here. Someone possessed of the smallest smidgen of intellectual integrity would have clearly acknowledged their error, their lapse both in clearly engaging with a clearly reasoned position, as well as their attempted gaslighting subsequently, and also their now having proved to be completely wrong in what they were then arguing for. And apologized specifically for their de facto support for Trump prior to the elections, given their professed bleeding-heart at the Gazan genocide.

Instead, this shameless person keeps on cynically dramaqueening away, even now, even now pretending his heart bleeds for the dead babies, when those dead babies are clearly no more than fodder for his ego, to be cynically made use of to shamelessly dramaqueen away, endlessly.

It’s …nauseating, this display, this exhibitionism.

I won’t engage with this nonsense again, but, like I said, I felt constrained to point this out clearly now. Not to @manjit himself, because obviously he himself well knows this already, and apparently sleeps well despite his endless lies: but to any readers here that might be inclined to take this person’s cynical and disingenous dramaqueening at all sympathetically.

[manjit]

AR you are merely repeating the same infantile misrepresentation of my argument you repeated before.

Nobody requires "prescience" to know US will engage in genocide and forever wars to uphold the empire, whoever is in charge, you utterly clueless numpty!

Trump was merely a 0.0000001 chance of doing something unexpected. He didn't, AS EXPECTED.

The simple point you've never grasped or even acknowledged is, if the system is broken, don't validate and perpetuate it.

And, also, never vote for genocide. Never, unless you're a moral coward.

You can spin my simple and obviously moral and integral position as supporting Trump, or lie to yourself that Kamala would do as anything different, or that I reflect ACCURATELY Palestinian voices. Who cares, except you?

And you can portray my repeatedly discussing the genocide our democratically elected governments have engaged in from DAY 1 as shameless dramaqueening, and putting the children being slaughtered EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR 20 MONTHS BY YOUR TAX PAYER MONEY front and center as merely puffing up my ego, or whatever delusional nonsense and lies you have to keep telling yourself to delude yourself that you have any morality or integrity at all. I really couldn't care less, nor will I stop reminding you you voted for somebody just as bad Hitler WHILST they were engaged in the act of genocide.

Fuck my ego, and yours, you utter coward.

[manjit]

In all my years reading on this blog and the RSS forum, I have seldom come across, if ever, somebody writing so many words to express such little experience, knowledge, substance, insight or wit as AR.

That this bruised ego thinks we're engaged in an "arm wrestle" is genuinely very amusing to me!

You've added NOTHING to ANY discussion we've ever had on this blog AR, WAKE UP! You're bankrupt and demanding payment!

[Ron E.]

@ Brian:- “Today B-2 bombers attacked Iran's nuclear sites on the order of President Trump. I'm no fan of Trump, to put it mildly, but this isn't the worst thing he has done.”

It may well be the worst thing Trump has done – future events may tell.

@ Brian “Iran has been denying that it seeks to build a nuclear bomb. But it's been enriching uranium to levels that are far beyond what's needed for civilian nuclear purposes, such as generating electricity. Israel is justifiably concerned that if Iran did get a nuclear bomb, it could be used to destroy much of their country.”
@ UN nuclear watchdog: - “Iran has further stepped up its production of highly enriched uranium, according to the UN nuclear watchdog, which set out "serious concern" at the development.”
@ BBC: - “In a confidential report seen by the BBC, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said Iran now possesses over 400kg of uranium enriched to 60% purity - well above the level used for civilian purposes and close to weapons grade, and a near 50% increase in three months.”

So, it’s reasonable to think that Iran may have nuclear bomb aspirations; if so, Israel would need to be concerned – taking into account the long-standing hostile relationship between the two countries.

The following comment from Brian I read as retrospect in seeing that the US has already bombed Iran then: -
@ Brian “The best case scenario would be that the attacks were successful, Iran doesn't retaliate in a major way, Iran agrees to a peace deal with the United States and Israel that guarantees Iran won't reconstitute its nuclear program, and a pro-democracy movement takes hold in Iran that ends the fundamentalist Islam control of the country by a single person, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.”

My interpretations of this issue.

[Appreciative Reader]

"Trump was merely a 0.0000001 chance of doing something unexpected."

There was no such reasonable chance. That was the whole point of my argument, and my position. That I very clearly spelled out. And that you never had the balls to engage with. And that you lied about subsequently, and attempted gaslighting away for all you were worth.

Just stop. You are completely, utterly bereft of intellectual integrity, manjit. No matter the subject, be it politics, be it spirituality, and particularly your halfwittery about your "experiences", and about your incoherent "ontology".

----------

Just stop with this endless attempt at gaslighting. Anyone that is able to read and think, and anyone willing to engage with the comment and the thread I have linked to, can see your lies for what they are.

Stop, just stop. Stop pretending you possess the smallest bit of intellectual integrity. Stop pretending you know the first thing about politics. Stop pretending you know the first thing about spirituality. Stop pretending you're anything but a shameless charlatan. At least where I am concerned.

Over and out. For good. Blechhhh! I need to take a shower now, after engaging with this ...this uncleanness.

Just stay away from me, yeah? Dramaqueen away all you like. Lay claim to whatever "experiences", and whatever halfwittery your imagine is valid ontology, and whatever other lies you like, like you've been doing here, and elsewhere, for years and decades on. I won't interrupt, because there's no way I'm touching this nonsense again with ten bargepoles tied together end to end.

[manjit]

"incoherent "ontology"

Would that be the same "incoherent ontology " Koch explicitly states (in almost identical terms to how I described it years prior) in that video I linked?

When will you admit you are way out of your depth, and what you label incoherent is merely you discussing subjects beyond your understanding?

Re. the rest of your transparently substance less and literally incoherent arguments, you're simply doubling down on stupid.

You descending into juvenile idiocy a long, long time ago, and you have absolutely nothing to support any of your argument.

Yes, he away with you and your 10,000 words to describe your unrelenting ignorance and arrogance bereft of anything approaching insight, experience or knowledge!

Dear Ron E, your comment OBVIOUSLY shies away from the real question I've already posed, which is why Brian has sympathy and concern for the aggressor , the genocidal, blood thirsty, settler colonial state of Israel which lied about Iraq, and has claimed Iran's 2 weeks away from a bomb for 30 years now, even in the MIDST of a genocide , but has apparently no sympathy for the country exposed to colonialism, acts of illegal war, theft of resources and coups for more than a century, even using the word "justified" for Israel?

Will any of you even attempt to address the CRYSTAL CLEAR hypocrisy, double standards and TRANSPARENT racial bigotry in this perspective, or are we all just meant to accept without question that it's not what you do, but the colour of your skin whilst doing it, that matters and drives who is moral, decent and "civilised"?

I mean, I get why you or nobody else will, ever, because you can't without facing your own cognitive dissonance, lies and why we're really not that great and civilised human beings after all.

Cheers.

[um]

@ Manjit

>> .... but the colour of your skin whilst doing it, that matters and drives who is moral, decent and "civilised"?<<

Whether and how it is related to the color of the skin, being the main point, I do know know but it seems that every culture, social class has its own ideas about what is civilized and what not and based upon that idea look upon others ...and ... not all cultures and socicial classes do ot in the same way, interacting with others

There are, so to say civilized ways, to look down upon others

It reminds me of owerd dad who jokingly would tell us that at the OTHER side of the alps live the barbarians ... an idea that was born in the mind of great Roman minds.

It is a strange thing that humans easily feel the need to tell others what was good for them ..even they push it through peoples throat with force

[um]

And Manjit ... color is not only an issue between races but also within... it seems that every where there is a north / south issue related to color ...hahaha ..even in this country those that live in the north are considered higher than those in the south

[manjit]

Dear UM - it is an interesting analogy with the Dera. I was going to write that it is hard, though, to emotionally associate the feel and vibe of the dera with Israel.....but then I recalled some of the frictions I've heard about with local villagers, and I feel loathe to dismiss their stories, their experiences, which I am not at all familiar with. So I cannot comment on just how good the relations were between RSSB and the surrounding village/rs, back in Charan's time or now....?

"Only when the Israelis start to look after the welfare of the surrounding population they can hope to live in peace".

This is the thing - there are SO MANY WAYS to PEACE, and then to build on peace to gain happiness and prosperity for all.

But like what I wrote a few years back, humanity is deeply diseased.

We are deeply tribal (we see it here from folks who, in between their bouts of tribalistic violence glorification wax lyrical on love, compassion, empathy and equality), profoundly violent, self centered, short sighted, and blinded by conscious or unconscious bigotry, hypocrisy, double standards and lack of integrity in our beliefs and actions.

We live in a world, today, where the mighty and powerful slaughter, occupy, colonise, criminalise, dehumanise and pillage the wealth of the week and meek.

America itself was built on the blood and bones of Indigenous natives, and African slaves. The guy proclaimed to have discovered it wrote, in his first letter from America:

"The inhabitants of both sexes of
this and of all the other island I have seen, or of which I have any knowledge, always go as
naked as they came into the world, except that some of the women cover their private parts with
leaves or branches, or a veil of cotton, which they prepare themselves for this purpose. They are
all, as I said before, unprovided with any sort of iron, and they are destitute of arms, which are
entirely unknown to them, and for which they are not adapted; not on account of any bodily
deformity, for they are well made, but because they are timid and full of terror. They carry,
however, canes dried in the sun in place of weapons, upon whose roots they fix a wooded shaft,
dried and sharpened to a point. But they never dare to make use of these; for it has often
happened, when I have sent two or three of my men to some of their villages to speak with the
inhabitants, that a crowd of Indians has sallied forth; but when they saw our men approaching,
they speedily took to flight, parents abandoning children, and children their parents. This
happened not because any loss or injury had been inflicted upon any of them. On the contrary I
gave whatever I had, cloth and many other things, to whomsoever I approached, or with whom I
could get speech, without any return being made to me; but they are by nature fearful and timid.
But when they see that they are safe, and all fear is banished, they are very guileless and honest,
and very liberal of all they have. No one refuses the asker anything that he possesses; on the
contrary they themselves invite us to ask for it. They manifest the greatest affection towards all
of us, exchanging valuable things for trifles, content with the very least thing or nothing at all.
But I forbade giving them a very trifling thing and of no value, such as bits of plates, dishes, or
glass; also nails and straps; although it seemed to them, if they could get such, that they had
acquired the most beautiful jewels in the world. For it chanced that a sailor received for a single
strap as much weight of gold as three sold solidi; and so others for other things of less price,
especially for new blancas, and for some gold coins, for which they gave whatever they seller
asked; for instance, an ounce and a half or two ounces of gold, or thirty or forty pounds of cotton,
with which they were already familiar. So too for pieces of hoops, jugs, jars, and pots they
bartered cotton and gold like beasts. This I forbade, because it was plainly unjust; and I gave them many beautiful and pleasing things, which I had brought with me, for no return whatever,
in order to win their affection, and that they might become Christians and inclined to love our
King and Queen and Princes and all the people of Spain; and that they might be eager to search
for and gather and give to us what they abound in and we greatly need. "
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/columbus-reports-his-first-voyage-1493

So in summary, it is founded by a peoples who saw the natives were so kind as to invite them in and share everything they had happily, and proceeded to slaughter them and steal all their resources. Sound familiar? A story we hear over and over again from the beautiful folks of Palestine, who invited into their homes with open arms Jewish folks who were trying to escape the centuries of oppression and genocide they suffered at the hands of these racial supremacists from Europe and North America.

And then waking up to find them slaughtering their children in perpetuity.

And what do these barbarians do now? They tell lies about mad mullahs, completely ignoring the decades of struggle by Christian, Muslim and even secular Palestinian authorities, side by side, both through peaceful and violent resistance to the brutal occupation, being brutally slaughtered and massacred at every single turn.

People forget that for many, many years it was the PLO who represented the Palestinians - a SECULAR organisation based on socialist values. I grew up looking at the face of Yasser Arafat, a man I was told from birth is a mad monster, but who as a child I could see had a softer smile on his face than all of the angry white supremacists around him

They were demonised, dehumanised & slaughtered just as the Muslims (and Christian Palestinians) are today, it makes absolutely no difference who is in the way of the zionist racial supremacists and genociders!

Indeed, the whole muslim terrorist narrative in the west is entirely a Zionist fabrication. Netanyahu and his genocidal monster friends have been trying to portray Palestinians as mad, fanatical religious zealots for decades, and Islam as the greatest threat to the west, in order to justify their apocalyptic death cult drive for war, destruction and suffering.

I recall on the RSS forum a poster you know posted the most corny, most BS video called "Islam; Threat to the West" or something, repeatedly, to educate us of the threat of these mad mullahs.

It only took me 3 minutes to recognise somehting was very, very off with the cheesy film made with horror graphics and sound, and a 2 minute search later I found out the main person in the whole video was a Zionist Christian PRETENDING to be a Muslim! I remember when pointing this out (with evidence), foolishly imaging the fellow had the ability to admit their errors, but being essentially told "so what, my point still stands".

Huh?

The crazy thing is, I didn't even know what Zionism was back them, I was just making the point you're posting a video demonising an entire religion taken out of context of western brutalisation and humiliation of those very same muslims for hundreds of years, and it's main argument WAS A TOTAL LIE, A SCAM - and you're not even gonna question your sources of info, or how readily you swallowed that shit, or WHY? Wow.

But yes, Netanyahu wanted Hamas in power PRECISELY because he can call them mad mullahs, so zionist stooges like Sam Harris could provide the illusion of moral and intellectual credibility to this savage barbarity, when he conducted this long planned for genocide:

https://www.972mag.com/netanyahu-hamas-october-7-adam-raz/

Many here, like Spence, hold Churchill up as another great symbol of Western decency, morality, greatness and civilisation.

I can understand why:

"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes."
https://www.nationalchurchillmuseum.org/churchills-1919-war-office-memorandum.html

And in regards the Palestinians:

"‘I do not admit that the dog in the manger has the final right to the manger, even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit, for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, or, at any rate, a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.’"
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5802/ldselect/ldcond/38/3810.htm

I mean the list of quotes highlighting Churchill's suitability as a moral hero for the modern Western world is abundant and self evident!

Annnyway, point being - it is, imo, not too hard to step away from brutal and pointless conflicts, and to divert all the many trillions of dollars that goes towards instruments of death and destructions towards creating a prosperous world for us all.

But the zionists and colonialists are too greedy & too blood thirsty for that, so they must invent "savages" whom they slaughter, oppress, and steal from, on their own lands, thousands of miles from their own homes.

The 1% must make their money from arms sales, from Blackrock, from the corporate greed and extraction of wealth from the system that is the stock market, etc.

These folks even reach their 70s and 80s and STILL haven't come to grips with their mortality, and the fleeting phantasmagoria that is "financial wealth". They are hungry ghosts, waiting to die.

Sometimes I pray there isn't a God, or at least any form of "justice" after death........the cycle of suffering is spinning way too fast in their being, and they may be at the top of that cycle now, but..........

And yes, colour of the skin is only one form of bigotry, hatred, conscious or otherwise. The thing is, bigotry and hate is cannabilistic, once the Palestinians have been slaughtered, then someone else needs to be slaughtered.

When all the black and brown people are slaughtered, it is inevitable they'll be eating and slaughtering themselves, perhaps based on country, language, or the colour of folks eyes. Something, ANYTHING to be a subject of their irrepressible privilege, entitlement, geed, hate and violence.

It's already happening - to the working classes all across the US and Europe......we can all see late stage capitalism failing, only a fool thinks the current global hegemony will exist in 100, 200 years. Trump is clearly a sign of a decaying Empire. The working classes thought he would be their hero because the traditional party classes, Dems or Reps, absolutely no difference, have failed them so miserably for decades. Now the man of the people has been shown as the fraud he is, who do the working class turn to now?

[manjit]

"So in summary, it is founded by a peoples who saw the natives were so kind as to invite them in and share everything they had happily, and proceeded to slaughter them and steal all their resources. Sound familiar? A story we hear over and over again from the beautiful folks of Palestine, who invited into their homes with open arms Jewish folks who were trying to escape the centuries of oppression and genocide they suffered at the hands of these racial supremacists from Europe and North America."

Hey, I gotta post this video. I believe Bassem Youssef's family in Palestine apparently allowed Jewish folks escaping western savagery into their homes with open arms.......only for their homes to then be stolen by the same people, and them pushed out of their homes they've been living on since before Judaism even existed (most Palestinians are genetically related to ancient Levantines) into the streets

Reminds me of some of my discussions here, and Sam Harris too.

The face of "civilisation" right here.

Remaining very calm, very collected, very polite, whilst you lie pathologically, gaslight to the most absurd and ridiculous lengths, and justify genocide.

Yes, profoundly symbolical of western "civilisation" en toto:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjxqHM7kF8A

I'd like to echo Bassem's Beautiful response.

Shut the fuck up.

Speaking of which, I found the most brutal demolition of Sam Harris' racist, genocidal apologist views on Palestine and Muslims. It is thoroughly humiliating, and underscores the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of not just him, but ANYONE who thinks he makes any (non racist) sense on this subject, or that has a scintilla of non-attention seeking spirituality in his entire body.

The crazy thing is, he wrote it himself! It really is such a pathetic piece of writing, that you really cannot deconstruct his shameless lies and justifications for genocide beyond his own words - they are simply utterly presposterous, and a-historical lies!:

https://www.samharris.org/blog/5-myths-about-israel-and-the-war-in-gaza

If you fall for this genocidal apologist BS and lies, you have serious issues with your credulity and/or bigotry!

[um]

@ Manjit

In the past I have mentioned several times that I have tendency NOT to focus on persons and certainly not at those that are seen in the center, but at powers expressing themselves in them or that brought them into the lime light of the stage.

In Indian literature it says that once the arrow had left the bow of Arjuna it could not be stopped.
What is going on in the middle east did not start "yesterday" .. the moment the arrow was shot is lost in the historical records of humanity.

And ...

I just heard on an analytical TV broadcast that last week there was and stressful phonetically between the presidents of the USA and Israel. The participants in the discussion said that the president of the USA wanted to wait 2 weeks before taking action but the president of Israel insisted in that phone call that action could not be postponed ...and than he aided that the change of mind was due to the charme offensive of the Israeli president.
Now put that before the internal political position of the american president ... the MAGA fraction of the Republicans do not want america to start another war and they voted for him that he would not do so ....so i wonder as i suggested before whether the charme, the ego flattery was enough to bypass the "fear" of the American president to turn his back upon his voters. .... If I would live long enough, I would not be surprised at all that one day in history books one could read that the president of the USA in begone days was manipulated by secret services of other countries, Russia and Israel threatening him to reveal incriminating evidence of misconduct if he would not do what they want and in return for his cooperation they would present him, make him seen, as the divine peace maker of the world.

I started to have that possibility in mind in reaction to the interaction between Trump and Poetin. The Russian secret service is well known for these practices ..and ... as the Israeli services are no less
I would not be surprised at all ..and it would explain the many unexpected changes of mind by Trump

Anyway ..it is just a personal thought and it doesn't matter what I think ..it happens anyway for reasons I wrote before.

[manjit]

Hey Um - you should consider the Mossad Epstein spy op, there's a SHIT LOAD of compromised politicians and influential people.

:)

Speaking of which, on a completely unrelated note. who remembers Michael Jackson's song about the Palestinian children?

Anyone?:

"See the plains
Of the days of old
Just a century ago
When stories of peace were told.
Of how Gallilie (sic) ran through
The Jordan River.
What remains are cold
Tales of war,
Of the death and dying
Bomb shells are flying
Bodies multiplying,
See the children crying.
What are they fighting for?
I will pray for you,
Oh, Palestine.
Oh, Palestine,
I will carry you, oh,
Palestine, Palestine.
Palestine
Come deep in
My heart.
I’ll always love you.
Palestine, don’t cry,
I will pray for you,
Oh, Palestine. Oh, Palestine,
Oh, Palestine.
God’s a place for you
Oh, Palestine.
And, I believe in you. Oh,
Palestine, I will die for you."
https://michael-jackson.fandom.com/wiki/Palestine,_Don%27t_Cry

Oh look at that - written in 1993.....was that a few weeks or months before the allegations came out and his career ruined?

Complete coincidence, I'm sure.

It's anti-semitic to tell the truth about Zionist control over media, politicians, the music and movie industries, or their lust for killing babies.

God damn reality, the rabid anti-semite!

[um]

@ Manjit

I read the lyrics and remember Michael Jackson as a very sensitive person with a soft spot for children but i was not made out of that kind of wood ...and ... in these days I tend to say that I am glad I was not given the atrocities in the world and the inability of humanity as a whole to cure itself.

Who knows .. maybe there is something in what these mystics say that we are heading deeper into the iron yuga

[um]

It says on the dutch Internet:

>>
Trump breaks election promise
The US intervention in the conflict with Iran exposes Trump's contradiction. He promised his voters to be a peace president, but at the same time is not afraid to violate international law and escalate the conflict, says Nijhuis.

Mens [some political scientist ]speaks of a "big hurdle" that Trump had to overcome to break his election promise. "He has actually distanced himself from former presidents under whom the US was involved in wars."

It is therefore questionable whether Trump will gain popularity among his supporters. An earlier poll among the American population showed that 60 percent is in favor of a diplomatic solution in Iran. This does not show broad support for military action. "But it is always different when a situation actually occurs," says Nijhuis. "We will have to wait and see how the conflict develops.
<<

You see ... the questions is WHAT made him take that hurdle ... that must be quite a thing for a man that attributes so much value and meaning to his public persona

[Jim Sutherland]

Posted on Truth Social at 6:02 PM 6/23/25…..

CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE! It has been fully agreed by and between Israel and Iran that there will be a Complete and Total CEASEFIRE (in approximately 6 hours from now, when Israel and Iran have wound down and completed their in progress, final missions!), for 12 hours, at which point the War will be considered, ENDED! Officially, Iran will start the CEASEFIRE and, upon the 12th Hour, Israel will start the CEASEFIRE and, upon the 24th Hour, an Official END to THE 12 DAY WAR will be saluted by the World. During each CEASEFIRE, the other side will remain PEACEFUL and RESPECTFUL. On the assumption that everything works as it should, which it will, I would like to congratulate both Countries, Israel and Iran, on having the Stamina, Courage, and Intelligence to end, what should be called, “THE 12 DAY WAR.” This is a War that could have gone on for years, and destroyed the entire Middle East, but it didn’t, and never will! God bless Israel, God bless Iran, God bless the Middle East, God bless the United States of America, and GOD BLESS THE WORLD!

DONALD J. TRUMP,
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

[Appreciative Reader]

The Age of Caliban, in all its glory.

You know it is Caliban all the way, when it is Caliban setting policy, Caliban facilitating and executing it, Caliban cheerleading the complete obverse of virtue --- and Caliban again that is most voluble in apparently (but not really) protesting vileness.

The Age of Caliban is complete. His sons have overrun the world.

There is no refuge from unreason, from vileness, anywhere in the world. Except maybe that last refuge, within our own minds?

----------

In other news: Trump has apparently been nominated for the Nobel Peace. In a different context: but this context adds to it.

How apt, in this brave new world of ours.

Perhaps we could make it more inclusive, and more representative of the world at large, and give out a joint Nobel to Trump certainly; and to Modi from India as well; and who could forget that stalwart statesman Bibi Netanyahu, who is no less, in any and every respect, than actually a Churchill? And while we're at it, maybe Putin as well, should he manage to take cue and go full-on ballistic, and decapitate Ukraine's spine once and for all, and declare peace over their ruins any time soon?

Yep, a joint four-pronged Nobel sounds good.

All hail Caliban.

[manjit]

You gotta question just how insufferably vain, self obsessed, angry, pretentious and moronic anyone can be to be enraged at a ceasefire deal that could potentially save the lives of millions of people, just because their object of extreme, irrational and delusional hate is the one who brokered it.

Absolutely tragic.

Trump is a moron who has acted rashly, riskily, illegally, like the bully America is and without anything approaching honour with his betrayal of diplomacy, lies etc

And, you'd have to be a complete moron to take at face value and trust anything Trump says, he has proven without doubt this could be another lie and betrayal of diplomacy whilst US and Israel prepare another sucker punch in Iran's back, like the cowards they are.

That said, if the ceasefire does hold....if....then it is hard to not be impressed with how Trump has handled this, some degree of begrudging respect must be due, by any half decent person anyone.

Because, if it does hold, we should all be extremely thankful this NPC wasn't leader right now:

https://youtube.com/shorts/FvYIdloxBCc?si=VQ3bbBq8AxaPjjRY

Regardless, the US, Israel and Trump are still currently engaged in a barbaric genocide in Gaza:

https://www.barrons.com/news/gaza-rescuers-say-israeli-forces-killed-21-people-waiting-for-aid-7296aba4

But never mind, they're not white.

[manjit]

It would seem some people would prefer death, destruction and war and get enraged over a ceasefire brokered by their object of irrational pet hate, just as long as they're able to make a petty point.

Tragic and pathetic losers I would label folks like that. But each to their own.

[manjit]

Brian: "justified"

G.K Chesterton: "Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable."

[manjit]

“I gotta get Israel to calm down now,” Trump said as he left the White House, Reuters reports.

“Israel, as soon as we made the deal, they came out and they dropped a load of bombs, the likes of which I’ve never seen before, the biggest load that we’ve seen.

“We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing.”

And

"ISRAEL is not going to attack Iran. All planes will turn around and head home, while doing a friendly “Plane Wave” to Iran. Nobody will be hurt, the Ceasefire is in effect! Thank you for your attention to this matter! DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

Go on my son, show some integrity and righteous anger, Trump!

Thank Goddess Kamala isn't in charge right now, she would have folded like an origami fan!

[um]

When I heard of the ceasefire in de ME between the 3 parties involved, I wondered why such an thing has been impossible between the 2 parties in Europe where the daily "cost' of the fight is extremely higher.

Then I realized that the "commanders" in the ME, have something in common ... they can not count on the support of their voters .... Not all the people in Israel, the USA and Iran stand shoulder by shoulder with the regime and its president. ..if by that bombing each others to much suffering and loss has to be digested all these man run the risk of the people turning their backs upon them and that they will loose their power.

In the European conflict one can see the opposite ... no suffering and loss is enough for the common people to turn their backs upon their leaderschip and policy.

[manjit]

Dear UM - when politicians can rely on the support of mindless and immoral voters who vote based on tribal affiliating, society is doomed and democracy is dead

I have repeatedly tried to make this point here and not a single person suffering from Trump derangement syndrome understood the powerful and practical meaning.

If you can even turn a blind eye to the greatest sin possible by humans, genocide, and vote for folks who have been committing it for more than a year, justifying it as "a lesser evil" or what not moral cowardice, then democracy is dead, the idea politicians serve the public will a joke, our morality totally degenerated, our self a coward and and our being lacking in heart and humanity.

But forget the humanity which I'm beginning to sense not many folks here REALLY care about beyond their performative empathy. This is about giving politicians and parties free reign to completely ignore their electorate and represent only the interests of those who pay them the most, because they know the electorate is without integrity and will vote regardless.

Imo of course, you folks do you.

[manjit]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cwygp9d44zeo

Trump is inherently untrustworthy, dishonest and delusional.... but he seems genuinely angry here with Israel.

This is the 0.0000001% jeapordy or unpredictability I was referring to.

You can be 101% certain a Kamala presidency would have firmly been up Netanyahu's ass whatever crimes he committed, like they did for 15 months.

[manjit]

I think, especially at this precarious time for humanity, it is worth reposting what is almost certainly the greatest Satsang ever given, certainly caught on film:

https://youtu.be/0VR_hZ8hvpk?si=1bQwv8rQyBPvHIAT

Fucking Shalom and Assalamualaikum.

[um]

@ Manjit

What I was pointing at is the suggestion that the decision to propose and agree with an ceasefire in such an short time is the fear for the consequences these three presidents have

[manjit]

Hi Um, yes I see. You mention "they cannot count on the support of their voters", which is what I was commenting on but from another direction.

IE. The Dems thought they could commit a racist genocide and ethnic cleansing, and still rely on the support of their "liberal" voters.

This, of course, should never be the case or democracy becomes a farce.

As it has been in the US pretty much since WW2.

[manjit]

A democracy without accountability isn't a democracy, it's an oligarchy LARPing as a democracy.

[um]

@ Manjit

What can I say .... people want to believe they have overcome what has caused them to kill and be killed, like some scholars in the previous century believed that they knew everything that could be known.

What made the Romans, the French, the huns, the turks march the world is still there....EXPANSION .. expansion of
- what you have,
- what you are,
- what you know
.....for an ever growing BETTER .... greed, attachment, lust

To those that have criminalized the ways of the past I often say, that you have only changed the forms but the needs behind your tools are still the same. No teacher can hit a schoolboy with a ruler these days but the need to maintain order in the classroom is still there and now they use more abstract ways, intellectual and emotional. The same holds for torture. Abandoning the brutal forms of the middle ages, torture has not stopped. We do not longer kill with our hands, clubs and stones ..civilized as we have become ... we use science and buttons to push

We have not changed .. only on individual level there can be understanding = the more people the closer the golden yuga

[manjit]

"At least 46 people waiting for aid have been killed by Israeli fire in two incidents in central and southern Gaza, according to rescuers and hospitals.

UN agencies have condemned the US and Israel-backed food distribution system, with one official calling it "an abomination" and "a death trap".

Such deadly incidents have recently become a near daily occurrence but have attracted relatively little attention outside Gaza since Israel attacked Iran more than a week ago.

Without including the latest deaths, the UN has said that more than 410 Palestinians are reported to have been killed by Israeli gunfire or shelling since the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) began work in late May.

"Why are our children's lives seen as so cheap?" demanded Umm Raed al-Nuaizi, a widow whose son was shot and wounded after he went overnight to collect food for his hungry family in central Gaza.

"My son went to get a grain of flour so that he could eat and feed his siblings, and now he is in the intensive care unit.""

"Speaking to reporters in Berlin, Philippe Lazzarini, the head of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (Unrwa), said: "The newly created, so-called mechanism is an abomination that humiliates and degrades desperate people. It is a death trap costing more lives than it saves.""

"In Gaza City, a father of four daughters told us that his family had resorted to eating bread and salt but that he would not risk his life to go to the GHF aid centres.

"They are called death zones," Mahmoud al-Ghura said. "My son has already been martyred."

"I am afraid that if I went to get a bag of flour I would return carried in one. Every day people go there and die. What are we to do?""

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c15wz2ee05do

Yes, just why are Palestinian lives so cheap in the eyes of westerners?

[um]

@ Manjit

I would probably not phrase it the way you do but it is certainly so that within the different communities "the meaning of life and death" is different.

The way how the Palestinians "digest" the loss of those near and dear to them is completely different from the Israelis and people in the west ... from early child hood on they are trained to accept life as it comes as the will of the lord.

That surrendering their will to the Lord gives them the strength to endure what cannot be endured

Just compare it with how the Israelis deal with the loss of a near and dear ... even the body is important ... their whole worldview is related to suffering that took place even hundreds and hundreds of years ago ... the mourning of christ by christians and ali by the Shiai can not stand in its shadow.

[manjit]

https://youtu.be/Bd9rvk1Nt-c?si=PuWHtcF0Iz_tFTZH

Absolutely brilliant analyst of recent events, Israel, Iran, Trump and the genocide in Gaza by Jeffrey Sachs.

You can watch Zionist propaganda on mainstream news channels like BBC, CNN, MSNBC, FOX etc for 10 straight years and gain less genuine insight and understanding of what's really happening out there.

Essential viewing imo.

[um]

Yes yes...manjit
Things are what they are
seldom what they look like
let alone how they are presented, made to be seen.

One day the all-encompassing dominion of the roman empire reached its peak and they downward started ... with the raise of China we see that the empire of the Christian world is coming to an end.

China came to understand that PURE communism will not work so they introduced elements of capitalism ..the western world, based on capitalism failed to incorporate the needed elements of socialism and communism in order to correct the flaws in capitalism

They are still living in the past ..having dreams of resurrection of ancient empires.