What is changeless? Important question that I'm not sure about.

I stay in touch with a few people from my high school years, including an old friend that I went to elementary school with. He's as philosophically and spiritually minded as I am, so I enjoy our periodic email exchanges.

In our most recent sharing of views, my friend included a quote from a previous message I'd sent him. I was referring to Robert Wright, the author of Why Buddhism is True, a book I've written about on this blog.

Wright says that the main illusions Buddhism can help us dissolve are a belief in an enduring unchanging self, and the related illusion that things outside of us in the world also possess an independent unchanging quality. He makes a good case, drawing both from Buddhism and neuroscience, that rather than a single Self, we actually are comprised of a bunch of mental modules, any one of which can come to the fore at a given time.

My friend said that from an early age his journey of prolonged self-inquiry has centered around the question, "What is changeless?" He shared some thoughts about this question, but noted that any answer truly can't be described or conceptualized.

He may be correct. However, that didn't stop me from responding to him today with:

I always enjoy your observations about life, reality, and all that. We’re both attracted to this sort of thing, though sometimes I feel like I’m almost as far away from realizing the truth of that “thing” as I was fifty years ago. 

Yes, I too struggle with what’s changeless versus what changes. Consciousness and awareness —that seems changeless, at least while we’re alive, because without it we wouldn’t know anything else, including what’s changeless or changeable. Beyond that, it’s an open question.

I know several people who have suffered from dementia lately. It’s a side effect of growing old, though one of the people is in his 50s I believe. It’s really difficult for loved ones, and the person themself, to see the person slipping away in the sense they’ve always known them and others. What remains is the bodily person and some memories and personal characteristics, but a lot is gone.

I do my best to remain centered in what’s actually happening with me, versus what my mind says might happen in the future or has happened in the past. This is tough sometimes, though. Mindfulness practice says to accept the toughness along with the mental thoughts of past and future, plus the physical reality of here/now. 

This strikes me as wise, even if I can’t manage it all the time. If change is happening continuously, accepting all those changes perhaps is the only way to deal with change.

 

Every time I go to my Tai Chi class I’m presented with images of the Taoist symbol showing yin flowing into yang, and yang into yin. There’s a never-ending balancing going on within and without us. Staying aware of all that balancing, the back and forth, maybe is the best I can do — since controlling what happens within and without me is impossible.

 

Is there anything that never changes? My intuition says "No." But I could be wrong about this.

For example, the laws of nature may never change. Yet physics and cosmology tell us that the laws of nature appeared at the moment of the big bang which marked the beginning of space and time, or spacetime in Einstein's formulation. 

If infinity or eternity exists, and I lean toward believing that they do, are they changeless? Maybe. At least, insofar as we know, since I have no idea how it would be possible to tell if there's a beginning or end to infinity or eternity.

But those examples are far removed from everyday life. Sure, religions say that God is beyond change, as is the soul, which some consider to be a changeless bit of being that survives a person's bodily death. This is in the realm of theology, though, not here-and-now reality.

In my life I can't think of anything that hasn't changed. Nor can I think of anything that could be changeless, whether it be part of my life or someone else's life. Again, as I said to my friend, consciousness is a constant in everyone's life, including my own. 

But to elevate consciousness to some sort of Cosmic Certainty, beyond change, strikes me as going way too far -- since every conscious being that has existed on our planet since life first arose has died and lost consciousness.

Sure, people love to imagine that consciousness is changeless, even considering this the hallmark of soul. That's merely an idea, though, a pleasant concept with no grounding in fact.

If someone else can come up with something that is changeless, not just theoretically but in demonstrable reality, leave a comment on this post. I'd be delighted to learn that change is almost universal, except for _________. Can anyone fill in that blank?

Comments

[Ron E.]

In Buddhism, to say that here is no self is an extreme view, equally as it is to say that there is a self. Paradox, not really. Both views can elicit arguments for and against. Unless you mentally conjure up a concept of a self or no self, on enquiry, not finding a self is the only true answer. All else is conjecture and reliant on one’s point of view.

The question “is change almost universal”; well, if what makes one aware of consciousness is its contents, then these contents can be seen to be changing constantly. The only thing that appears not to change is the awareness of such contents. Whether one is aware of being conscious of a particular thought or a cloud or pain or pleasure, the awareness of anything always appears to be the one undivided constant.

What if there is no human, even no lifeforms to be aware? Why then I guess we’re left with just this, just this on-going ever-flowing, ever changing present moment – just without a particular ‘me’ to witness and ponder over it.

Really, all we can be certain of is what’s arising in this moment, all else is the product of conditioned thought.

[Appreciative Reader]

"I'd be delighted to learn that change is almost universal, except for _________. Can anyone fill in that blank?"

Why, though? I mean, let's say we found some aspect of reality that is indeed changeless. While that would be interesting, certainly, but why the delight? Didn't quite get that.

In any case, I might venture two tentative answers. One: processes that are very slow when compared to us. We're all processes, us as well as stars, but stars are so slow, their inner processes, that for all practical purposes, they're eternal and changeless, relative to us. Even more so galaxies.

Another tentative answer would be abstractions. Math and logic. These are eternal and changeless, as well, in a manner of speaking.

Those two tentative answers, then. Although probably not what you'd actually been looking for.

(Again, not very sure why exactly you're looking for something changeless, and why it would delight you. Say we found that quantum fluctuations are indeed changeless, or even some particles, or some kind of energy. While obviously that would be super interesting: but still, big deal, right? I mean, any new knowledge would be fascinating, not just knowledge of changeless stuff.)

[Tej]

Shabd, or unstruck melody

[consciousness]

It seems you’re preoccupied with death.

[Harl]

Shit, it all boils down to ones background and learn8ng, cosmic consciousness aint got nothing to do with it.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian:
Hope you are doing well.,

You asked

"Is there anything that never changes? My intuition says "No." But I could be wrong about this."

This is what faith is all about. People want to believe there is liberation from death, even from the burdens and seductions of this life. We who have faith in God want to believe in something higher, better, everlasting, more loving and benevolent than the unreliable world we see around us and within this unreliable persona.

All we see is change, for the most part.

And we do see things that don't seem to change relative to our tiny snapshot of time we call this life. Generally, the cycles of nature, the warmth of the sun (even on cloudy days we know from experience warmth and light, and the song of birds, frogs and crickets will return again each in their own time). These things reflect the possibility of an underlying permanence.

The force of life itself in the examples of life has been around for a very long time. And the forces of physics, though they may have changed as the environment has changed over extremely long periods of time, appear somewhat stable.

And yet all things are in motion. Is being in motion the same as change, especially if the track of motion, they merry-go-round of cause and effect appears entirely stable?

This higher and greater good, this greater love, for most of us is just theoretical. But there are events, relationships, experiences that do reflect something more.

We can certainly agree that we know very little of this creation, however much we think we know. We have only been here less than the blink of an eye. And by the time that blink is completed we will be gone.

But will all of us be gone? Will the observer persist? They may see so many different things they never dreamed of, but if life itself continues, will that observer, stripped of everything artificial, even personality and memory, cease or continue?

If we cannot allign ourselves to the mystery, let us at least accept what we can of reality, and rejoice in the temporary nature of things we do see.

For those of faith, they have their practice. They have their sanctuary from all this. They have their coach and benefactor through all this. And for them, living like that, this is enough, more than enough. It is a permanent joy.

[Spence Tepper]

"When all you have are thoughts
You are removed from reality."
Alan Watts

[sant64 50% Grok]

The laws of logic, such as the law of non-contradiction (something cannot be and not be in the same sense simultaneously), are demonstrably changeless. They remain constant across time, cultures, and contexts, as any attempt to deny them presupposes their validity.

The fundamental laws of physics, like the laws of thermodynamics or conservation of energy, appear changeless within the observable universe, as they consistently govern physical phenomena across time and space. However, their absolute immutability is less certain than logical laws, as they could theoretically vary in extreme conditions (e.g., near black holes or in hypothetical multiverses) or be superseded by deeper, yet-undiscovered principles. Current evidence suggests they are effectively constant for all practical purposes.

The apparent constancy of physical laws doesn't directly prove a higher power created the universe. It suggests a consistent framework governs reality, which could arise from naturalistic processes, a designed system, or other unknown causes.

Interpretations vary: some see it as evidence of a purposeful intelligent design, while others view it as a product of fundamental, impersonal principles that somehow came out of literally nowhere and nothing.

The leap to a higher power depends on additional philosophical or theological assumptions, not the laws alone. But by the same token, the insistence that these laws must have come from nowhere likewise depends on assumptions.

[Tim Rimmer]

Nice posts Brian and Ron. I reckon it's getting back to some of the core questions (imo) often thrashed around on this blog - what is soul? What is consciousness? What is sound current? How does mindfulness and awareness relate to devotion? What is the truth? Perhaps one of the things that does not change is the realisation that truth can't be known - to know something a self is needed and most of us seem to agree that there isn't one. What remains??? However, it still seems to me that something 'is' that both fuels the illusory sense of self and facilitates its 'reduction in scope' which results in an ongoing expansion. Doing my head in thinking about it!
Best wishes to all