« It's great that a Zen master can be an atheist | Main | Empathy is a sign of maturity, which is why Trump is so childlike »

February 06, 2025

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

For science to be able to do its job, reality has to be brought to a calculable and measurable STANDSTILL ...or ...DEATH ... by restriction, reduction, exclusion etc of data....scientist are restricted by the very tools they use both in developing an theory and hypotheses as in any experiment to validate.

That seems to be the very opposite from what Zazen is all about ... experiencing the here and now without any man made mental restrictions.

I wonder if there is anything in the world that is needed to meditate, or to use the words of Kodo Sawaki, ...to settle your bottom onto your cushion and having the privilege to practice Zazen

AND ....AND...

He, kodo sawaki, goes on to say ..that Zazen is absolutely good for NOTHING
That too
Is the very opposite of the scientific endeavor.

For those that believe have real faith and trust in an spiritual narrative, a spiritual way of life there is no need for anything from science
and
For those that practice science there is no need to have any spiritual interest.

Only those that want to promote something that does not speak for itself often use references to science ...just read some advertisements to see what I mean.

Questions of God, the self, free will, mankind’s specialness, interconnectedness are all topics that some Buddhist thinking and non-duality broadly agree with regard today’s science (and vice-versa). Mostly, the above topics are available to perception in that, for example, no such thing as a separate self which has free will can be found – and we all have the ability to look and see for ourselves that this is so.

Sadly, they (Zen and science) also arouse many non-science beliefs which I put down to mankind’s fears and insecurities along with believing that we are somehow special and superior to the rest of the natural world. As our chemical brains can produce and throw up a variety of weird and wonderful experiences, we become subject to allocating them to metaphysical interpretations furthering the myth of our specialness.

Together with some Buddhist thinking and some of the non-duality teachings, it is enlightening to read alongside these some of the latest books on research which often concur with the findings of Buddhist teachings. For instance: -
‘Being You’ by Anil Seth: who among other things, explores consciousness.
‘Loosing Ourselves’ by Jay Garfield: who argues the benefits of living without a self.
‘What is Life’ by Paul Nurse: A geneticist who talks of life as information.
‘We are our Brains’ by Dick Swabb: A neurobiologist outlines how everything we do and not do is determined by our brains.

All good and informative books; along of course with many others and often very complimentary to Buddhism, particularly to Zen/Chan Buddhism.

We're all God in human form unless you're an animal then you'd be God in animal form!


Just read your post. Agree 100% with all of it, obviously.

I'd just like to add something. Something that is obvious, so utterly obvious and so utterly self-evident as to be something of a truism actually, but still probably worth articulating because it doesn't seem to be obvious to some/many.

It's ...absurd, silly to imagine that religion, or "spiritualism", is somehow a separate category, that needs sussing out carefully, as far as whether it falls under the ambit of science. Of *course* it does. Everything does, every matter of factuality.

Like I've argued in the past, twice that I can remember, one time when discussing the scientific worldview with Spence, and another time when discussing ...something, I forget what, with um : If we lived literally in a magic world, a world where if you sat on your glasses then instead of having to go out to get it fixed, all you you'd need to do is raise your wand and say, Oculus Repairo: Even in such a literally magic Hogwarts world, the scientific method is still our best way to answer questions of factuality. Likewise, even literally in a world where women get pregnant spontaneously, and birth babies that grow up to be business magnates that make a killing by setting up whole chains of distilleries as well as hospitals, both powered by nothing more than their magic touch, even in such a literally miracle-laden world, the scientific method is still our best way to answer questions of factuality.

(You, Brian, will agree fully with the above, I know. For those that might not, just think it through, I'm not going to spell it out in more detail again now, I've done it already, in some detai, on at least two occasions here, like I said.)

The words "paranormal", and "supernatural", are meaningless terms. By definition they don't exist.

And nor is this just semantics, not in the least! This isn't a matter of defining away the supernatural, if only people would actually think this through.

Should "spiritual" claims actually be true, even in that hypothetical scenario, it is still the scientific method that is best equipped to answer questions of factuality. Of course, that needs an open mind. But again, if I may use again that quote from Sagan that I've used here more than once: paraphrased: Good to keep an open mind, absolutely, but not so open that your brains fall out. ...Or, as you put it, Brian, in the concluding sentence of your post: "(We) should lean into the darkness of mystery from the well-lighted solid foundation of what is currently known about reality, not the shaky ground of unproven belief."

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.