Meditators need to avoid mistaking subtle dullness for meditative joy

As noted in a previous post, I've been re-reading the first part of a book by Culadasa (John Yates), The Mind Illuminated: A Complete Meditation Guide Integrating Buddhist Wisdom and Brain Science for Greater Mindfulness. 

I'm almost back to where I stopped my reading about six years ago for a reason I can no longer recall. The book is an amazingly detailed and comprehensive approach to Buddhist meditation. I find it refreshing, because there's hardly any mention of Buddhist scriptures, Buddhist terms, or Buddhist stories. 

The whole focus is on guiding the reader through ten stages of meditative practice. So far I've read about  the first five, each of which I'm fairly competent at. Which shouldn't be surprising, since I've been meditating every day for about 55 years.

Stage One: Establishing a Practice
Stage Two: Interrupted Attention and Overcoming Mind-Wandering
Stage Three: Extended Continuity of Attention and Overcoming Forgetting
Stage Four: Continuous Attention and Overcoming Gross Distraction and Strong Dullness
Stage Five: Overcoming Subtle Dullness and Increasing Mindfulness

There's also Interludes in-between some of the stages where Culadasa discusses general principles that apply to various stages. I've read these.

First Interlude: Conscious Experience and the Objectives of Meditation
Second Interlude: The Hindrances and Problems
Third Interlude: How Mindfulness Works
Fourth Interlude: The Moments of Consciousness Model

I find the discussion on dullness both interesting and helpful. Here's how strong dullness is described.

Dullness occurs when we turn the mind inward, which reduces the constant flow of thoughts and sensations that usually keep the mind energized and alert. Therefore, the overall energy level of the mind drops. With less stimulation, the brain winds down toward sleep, and the mind grows dull. This normally happens when we're fatigued or at bedtime.

In meditation, it's not just turning inward that decreases mental energy, but when we focus on the breath too intensely and for too long, we are also excluding the thoughts and sensations that usually keep the mind alert. This is another reason why "looking beyond" the meditation object with peripheral awareness is so important. When we stay aware of things in the background, we continue to stimulate brain activity and won't sink into dullness.

This helps explain why some meditators practice with their eyes open, and why it isn't important to block out noises, like in my case, the sound of our heat pump blowing air into the room or a dryer/washing machine operating in the nearby utility room. When I'm meditating, those sounds are part of my peripheral (background) awareness, while my main focus is on my breath.

Subtle dullness is, not surprisingly, not as easy to recognize as strong dullness. That makes it more difficult to deal with. This is discussed in the Stage Five chapter.

This new level of stable attention is precisely what makes us more vulnerable to slipping into a deeper state of sustained subtle dullness. That's because the mental agitation that stimulated the mind and helped keep us awake in the earlier Stages has subsided. As subtle dullness deepens, it causes both peripheral awareness and subtle distractions to fade. 

If we don't recognize this as a sign of subtle dullness, it can easily be mistaken for the strong exclusive focus of Stage Six. The pleasant feelings that accompany subtle dullness can also be misinterpreted as first signs of the meditative joy of advanced stages. Without guidance, meditators often confuse a deeper state of subtle dullness with having achieved the more lofty states of later Stages.

We can sustain this type of subtle dullness for very long periods. It's often described in these kinds of terms: "My concentration was so deep, an hour seemed like only minutes." Or, "I don't know where I went, but I was just gone, and felt so peaceful and happy." 

When the pleasure of dullness is particularly strong and our peripheral awareness of thoughts and sensations fades completely, our meditation can even seem to fit the description of a meditative absorption (jhana). We can quickly get attached to such experiences, prizing them as proof of our meditative skills. Yet, relative to the practice goals in this book, they are complete dead ends. It's crucial we learn to recognize and overcome subtle dullness to progress in your practice. Therefore, do not skip this Stage!

...At first, it may be difficult to distinguish between the wholesome pleasure of stable attention and the pleasure of subtle dullness, but in time, you will recognize the warm, soft, quiet pleasure of subtle dullness as something quite different from the bright, alert enjoyment of being in the flow of mindfulness.

There are various ways to detect and combat subtle dullness. Here's a couple of them.

Remember, dullness arises when perceiving moments of consciousness become non-perceiving mind moments. A strong intention to perceive actually reverses this process by producing more perceiving moments of consciousness. By just setting the intention to observe the breath clearly and vividly while sustaining introspective awareness, you directly influence the root cause of dullness.

Sharpen up your observation of the meditation object when you notice a decrease in the quality of awareness and attention. Use the techniques of following and connecting. Follow the sensations of the breath while intending to perceive the details as clearly and vividly as possible. It's especially important to connect changes in the breath with the degree of alertness or dullness of the mind.

When you're more alert, does the breath tend to be deeper or shallower, longer or shorter, and how do the pauses change? What about when you're dull?

Another way to counter subtle dullness is by expanding the scope of your attention to include the sensations of the body. This works to energize the mind because we automatically use more conscious power to observe sensations in a larger area. You will even find that your scope of attention tends to spontaneously expand at this Stage. 

For instance, you might find yourself observing the sensations of the breath in both the chest and abdomen when you were intending to focus only on the nose.

...You've mastered this Stage when you're able to consistently sustain a high level of intense and clear perception -- of both attention and introspective awareness -- during most or all of your session. 

Attention will gain intensity, making all the details of the meditation object quite vivid. It will also gain in clarity, so you experience the actual arising and passing away of individual breath sensations.

Comments

[Appreciative Reader]

That's interesting! Hadn't heard of the two kinds of dullness. Nor that curious thing, the pleasure of dullness!

Have just quickly read through this now. Will revisit later, when I have time, and when on my computer as opposed to phone.

(Didn't quite get it! The pleasure, joy, that sometimes accompanies deep absorption, most meditators will have experienced. Didn't quite get what the difference is, between the dullness-borne pleasure, and the not-dullness-borne pleasure. ...Hopefully another, slower read, later on, will clear the "dullness" of my understanding of this!)

[Trez]

Meditators need to avoid Gurinder Singh Dhilion and Radha Soami Cult like the plague

The meditation is a calling upon the evil within called Kaal (devil) with the repatition of kaals 5 names the individual looses himself for a influenced subdued version of himself because of the evil he has meditated upon.

This is why satsangis can not see the wood from the trees and believe Gurinder is God.

Gurinder Singh Dhilion is a Shameless character with so many exposed fiascos that he goes in the book as one of the great con men Baba to have ever walked this earth.

The right meditation is right but the wrong can never be a right

Don't follow blindly like a sheep but challenge the norm to find the truth

And escape this evil

[Brian Hines]

Appreciative Reader, I think the difference between dullness pleasure and genuine meditative pleasure comes down to how alert and active the mind is. The first sort of pleasure comes from losing consciousness of the world, as when we're dozing, not quite asleep and not quite awake. The second sort of pleasure is with full conscious awareness of the world, both through focused attention and peripheral awareness, as when we're in the flow of a mental or physical activity.

[sant64]

He's referring to torpor, one of the traditional 5 hindrances.

Goenka would counsel that all mindstates have the same thing in common. Transcience.

Dogen would counsel to practice as if your hair is on fire.

Both approaches are apt. Torpor can arise from a lack of aspiration for why one is sitting, and paradoxically, it is also a transient mind state that will arise and pass away regardless of one's intent and efforts.

[Appreciative Reader]

Thanks for that clarification, Brian.

Wouldn't that be the difference between simply Shamata absorption on one hand, and Shamata tempered/accompanied with insight/mindfulness/the peripheral awareness thing?

(Shamata by itself is seen as inadequate in Vipassana traditions, even as it is seen as the only goal in many other traditions. But I've not seen the former referred to as "dullness" before.)

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sant64, thanks for your thoughtful input!

Yes, torpor is one of the impediments they mention, and most meditators would have come up against it. But, in my experience at any rate, torpor isn't pleasant at all. And while outright dozing is, I suppose, pleasant enough; but that is completely unmistakable, surely, to oneself at any rate even if sometimes not to others? Not sure how one would mistake outright dozing for anything else!

[Appreciative Reader]

Re-reading your comment, Brian: sorry, I think I'd misunderstood it. I'd thought you were referring to Shamata absorption. But you too are referring to actual dozing.

But outright dozing is one of the "gross" impediments. It can be shaken off even within Shamata parameters --- if such is your practice --- without *necessarily* involving peripheral awareness.

In any case, surely outright dozing is completely unmistakable, to oneself at any rate even if not always to others?

[Ron E.]

In Zen or Chan, either silent illumination or koan meditation you are often reminded to be aware of dwelling in the cave – a form of quitetism This is similar to what Culadasa is describing here as dullness. In Chan it is customary to keep the eyes open allowing the senses (which includes thinking) to be present to what is arising in the moment.

And yes, many meditation teachings stress ignoring or trying to subdue thoughts and sensations. Many try this in their practice and some may also try psychoactive drugs. I am of the view that meditation is not about revealing wonderful experiences or permanent peacefulness and is not confined to the cushion but is being open to the awareness of what is occurring in the present moment.

Zen/Chan often use the terms ‘just this’ and ‘suchness’. Toliffson is always emphasising the present moment and being here now. Here she is talking about practice: - “What I’m pointing to here is nothing more or less than the “practice” of simply being alive, being this moment, just as it is. This is not a result-oriented practice or a self-improvement project, but on the other hand, it's not about mindlessly being a miserable jerk either. It’s a non-methodical, present moment, discovery, cultivation and exploration of open attention, awareness, presence, surrender and letting go.”

[Appreciative Reader]

Re-read your post just now, Brian. And the comments as well, yours as well as sant64’s.

Enjoyed the clear exposition of it all. Heh, this is one respect in which Buddhism stands completely apart. I mean in terms of the sheer clarity with which everything is explained, step by step by step. …And nor is this text an exception, most good Buddhistic texts I’ve seen are similarly clear and lucid. (Haha, Zen excepted!)

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Coming back to the whole dozing-torpor thing: Nah, that part still isn’t clear to me.

Here’s how I see this: There’s three elements here, three stages if you will, when one meditates:

1. Torpor, as sant64 puts it, of which I suppose an extreme manifestation is actual dozing.

2. Shamata absorption. An extreme manifestation of which is samadhi. Samadhi of course is kind of over the top, but shamata absorption we’ll all have experienced, to some degree, all of us who are regular meditators, regardless of which tradition we follow.

3. Insight meditation, and mindfulness. Of which peripheral awareness is a subset. This stage is absent in many traditions.

So, here’s two things I don’t quite get:

FIRST: What exactly is “subtle dullness”?

Dullness I get, obviously. We’ve all wrestled with it, I’m sure. The torpor thing, extending at times to actual dozing. But what’s this subtle dullness thing, exactly, and how is it different from not-subtle dullness? That’s the first thing I don’t get.

And SECOND: On re-reading, and on thinking this over a bit, I still don’t quite see it how both of you are seeing this, Brian, and sant64. Torpor is unmistakable. Extreme torpor, literally dozing, that also is unmistakable. That is, it may, just perhaps, not be recognized as such by someone else looking on, I suppose; but when I doze off, or when I’m otherwise overcome with dullness and torpor, then I --- I myself, the one meditating --- how can I possibly not know that, maybe not in that moment but right after? I don’t see, at all, how I might end up conflating torpor or dozing off with absorption.

…If you’ve any further thoughts on this, Brian, then do please tell me! You as well, sant64.

(I’ve no doubt Culadasa/Yates knows what he’s talking about, I’ve no doubt it’s I myself who am failing to grasp what he’s saying. Just, well, don’t quite get it.)

[Appreciative Reader]

Turned to Google to see if I could resolve this subtle dullness thing. Didn't spend too long on it, limited myself to just the first page that came up. Nothing there, bar one link. Bar that one link, the rest spoke about the usual --- lethargy, torpor, etc.

Interestingly, right there on the first page, when you ask "What is "subtle dullness" in Buddhism?", then fairly close to the top you get these two links: a link to this very page on CotC, and a link to a talk by Culadasa himself.

And that's the "bar one" I mentioned, the talk by Culadasa: this one: https://soundcloud.com/culadasa/culadasa-brightening-the-mind-to-combat-subtle-dullness-april-9-2009

It seems what he's doing here is clubbing together what I'd put in my #1 above as well as my #2 above, and calling that whole thing "dullness". And it seems he's referring to dullness proper, torpor, as "gross dullness", and to shamata absorption as "subtle dullness". At least that is the impression I got from this brief talk.

Which clears the issue up definitively, I guess. Because the starting point of this issue is Culadasa's own definitions and ideas. So that we can go by his own definitions and ideas to definitively clear up any confusion arising from it, right?

So yeah, I'm going with that: Culadasa's clubbing in shamata absorption as well, under the broad term "dullness". Which is a curious usage, at least I haven't seen it used in quite that way before: but fair enough, we know now what he meant by that, and where we stand on this.

[spence tepper]

The author accurately identifies a simple phenomenon, and that is that when sensory input begins to lessen, the attention falters and we go into a resting / sleeping mode. Makes sense. That's part of falling asleep.

The author's solution is to attend with greater focus on whatever it is one has as their object of focus, or else upon the background stimulus, in order to enjoy the pleasure of simple focus, simple concentration without losing their level of conscious awareness.

But that solution leads to nothing. Moving attention from object to object is no better than from thought to thought. In all cases attention is attached to thinking and the brain's normal conditioning: that when there is less to attend to, it triggers the mechanisms for sleep, and we become less conscious, rather than more conscious.. And so to find more physical stimulus or mental objects to attach it to keeps us awake, but unfortunately, still attached to senses and sensory input. We aren't raising consciousness at all. The test of that is when you witness something new. They you have raised your awareness beyond ritual, thoughts and senses.

The original idea of being mindful was to rise up to a position of observation, and in that way detach from the senses and thoughts. It works if you understand what you are aiming for, which is growing awareness. That's awareness of what is not in your sensory or conceptual plane. Something else.

Love can take you there, to a place you had no idea existed. But for that your object needs to be something of love. A selfless, dispassionate love. Not to take you to that object in your mind, or pulll your attention to the senses; just to pull you away from all objects and thoughts, to be still, to learn to enjoy with full attention being in complete darkness and silence. so that you begin to see what was already there coming through the darkness. And then, you see and hear things you had no idea existed before, and they are compelling. That is raised consciousness, raised awareness.

One test of this is simply noting that you no longer hear the air blowing through the vents. The outside noises begin to disappear altogether. Along with thinking. But, surprisingly, you are entirely awake!

Until that happens, no teacher of meditation has anything of lasting value to offer. You can rest assured they are teaching under false pretences.

They would do better to acknowledge and honor their role as a student, rather than present themselves as anyone's teacher. They would make much more progress that way.

[Spence Tepper]

Learn to enjoy the silence, to really hear it, to grow it within you. Until you hear nothing but the voice of that silence, a voice you can only hear in that silent space, there is nothing worth listening to. Until you witness that place where there is no light or sound, and can enjoy that absolute darkenss and silence in peace and full wakefulness, there is nothing real to enjoy. Until you can go there in a crowded airport, in a noisy trainstation, just by closing your eyes and withdrawing, you have discovered nothing.