Learning new skills is key to improving both mind and body

Like most people, I'm a big believer in improving my skills. This is such an obvious thing to do, it hardly bears mentioning. But I feel like I need to stress the obvious, because some visitors to this blog seem to view spirituality as a "one and done" sort of thing. 

Meaning, you find a religion, meditation technique, mystical path, or whatever that suits you, and you stick with that approach with no modifications for the rest of your life. Yeah, I realize this sounds ridiculous, and it is. Yet I've encountered people who actually seem to believe it's the way to go.

Which goes against how we deal with just about every other activity of mind or body. 

I started playing tennis at a young age, twelve or so. I played competitively into my 30s. I never stopped trying to improve my game: taking lessons, trying new racquets, stringing racquets at various tensions, hitting balls against a backboard.

I began learning Tai Chi in 2005. Nineteen years later, I'm way past being a beginner. My Tai Chi instructor, even more so. Yet my instructor is continually teaching new techniques. Naturally they become subtler since almost everyone in our classes is well versed in the basics of Tai Chi. There's always something more to learn about Tai Chi, though.

When it comes to meditation, I've meditated daily for about 55 years. Just as with tennis and Tai Chi, I'm always open to fresh ideas about how to make my meditation more pleasant and fulfilling. That's why I like to read new books about meditation and mindfulness, along with re-reading old books -- since I've found that as I change over the years, how I look upon a meditation/mindfulness book will change also.

Teachers are helpful in improving skills, whether they be an actual person or a virtual person (book, video, web site, etc.). I've never agreed 100% with any teacher I've had. All I look for in a teacher is the ability to help me learn something new. They always will look upon some things differently than I do, so I pick and choose what I accept from a teacher and what I reject.

For example, I'm enjoying James Doty's book, Mind Magic: The Neuroscience of Manifestation and How It Changes Everything. However, some of what he says doesn't resonate with me, either because Doty is wrong, or he's right and I don't understand what he's getting at.

Doty speaks about synchronicity being a way for us to manifest what we desire through unexpected connections that arise in our life.

Okay, we've all experienced amazing coincidences that can seem as if the universe is sending a message to us. That's possible, though unlikely. Given how many happenings there are every day in everybody's life, coincidences and synchronicity are going to occur once in a while just by chance, like rolling a pair of dice and getting two sixes five times in a row.

Yesterday I stopped by our bank to deposit a check. I wanted to get that errand done as quickly as possible, since I needed to go grocery shopping afterwards and then walk our dog before it got dark, which happens pretty early this time of the year in Oregon.

I had to wait a while before a teller was free. I got a woman who I'd noticed had spent quite a bit of time with a previous customer. That transaction required the assistance of a supervisor. When I was called to her station, I was mildly irked at having to wait so long. I handed her a deposit slip and a check, but she asked, "What do you need to do?"

"A deposit," I said, "I just gave it to you." "Anything else?" "No." She then fiddled with her terminal before asking me for my I.D. I dug out my drivers license, gave it to her, and said, "Why do you need I.D.? I've been banking here for a long time." "Because I'm new and don't know you."

That changed everything. Now I knew why she was taking so long to help customers. She needed assistance from a supervisor to do my transaction, but that didn't bother me after I realized she was learning on the job. 

After going grocery shopping at a couple of stores, I decided to get a grande decaf nonfat vanilla latte at the Starbucks within the south Salem Fred Meyer store. The barista, an older man, needed me to repeat my order several times before he got it right on the terminal. Eventually he had to call another barista over to show him where "vanilla" was on the screen.

This was fine with me, as I'd noticed that he had to use a "cheat sheet" of how to make Starbucks drinks with the customer ahead of me. Meaning, he also was learning his job. This is rare for me, encountering someone who is new at their job. Yet it happened twice in the space of an hour or so.

Doty might say that was synchronicity, that I needed to learn something about patience and compassion for slow employees. However, I just see it as a coincidence. Regardless, I learned something about myself. Next time I won't be so quick to get irritated at an employee who takes extra time to do something for me.

That's all we can hope for from life. Learning. Becoming more skilled. Having more compassion and love. As my fourth grade teacher, Mrs. Marshall, was fond of saying, "Do your best. Angels can do no better." 

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

What we discover from any practice, be it spiritual or worldly, is to our advantage, if we value it. Discovery, I think, is more important and permanent than the illusion of knowledge, which is at best only partly informed opinion.

Then you can say the entire creation brought you to this moment. Though that is true for every moment.

What is problematic is that we don't know, and reality is reminding us all the time, if we take the time to realize this: that we generally err acting from ignorance, or drawing conclusions in the absence of knowledge. Yet we are all ignorant. These tiny chemical brains can see so little. And they often forget.

Any practice that broadens awareness and understanding, patience, compassion, respect and connection, and helps us to stay that way even in, especially in, unknown situations, is IMHO a very good thing. We think we know, but we don't.

If that brings you to kindness, even becoming your nature, before you can see what's going on, I think it helps prepare us to see, and smooths the way a bit for ourselves and those around us.

If accepting our ignorance every moment of every day is the price of discovery, here is my wallet.

[um]

Improvement is one thing and change is another thing.

One can drive just one car at the dime, ride one horse. One can have just one partner at the time, follow one path at the time. Doing that one can improve many things.

If the improvement doesn't fit our expectations and/or the conditions do not allow the changes to become our liking ..change has to come ...most of the time in terms of divorce.

For moss to grow on a stone, the stone should remain where it is, stop rolling.
And

There are two options, follow a ;path that is laid out and practiced with al advantages and restrictions that comes with a path, rail road, high way ...ol .. following ones own parh. One cannot have the two

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um

You wrote
"There are two options, follow a ;path that is laid out and practiced with al advantages and restrictions that comes with a path, rail road, high way ...ol .. following ones own parh. One cannot have the two."

I like the basic logic of this. It is truthful. But I also feel there is a little more and little less to it.

So, agreeing with you, but adding maybe a couple more twists to it..

1. Looking back you may find you were always only on one path. Whatever path you were going to take. What may appear as a left turn or a right turn down different roads was actually one single path to your destination.

You might ask why one is driving six miles down the road only to go five miles west and take a completely different return trip to the grocery store that is actually one block away from your starting point. Why not drive just one block from where you are now?

Both routes are the path. You needed to see some things in that other place first. You were just a block away but didn't see it. Now you do. Same path.

2. Commitment to stick with a thing no matter how awful the experience until you figure it out. That's what dedicated scientists and successful professionals in all fields do. They pay their dues. But for that kind of commitment the payoff must be clearly visible to you. Otherwise we don't spend two seconds on it. We say it's not for us. So we wind up learning all that through some less demanding activity until we are ready for the real thing. But it was all real. That's why we are here to learn, right?

But if we can't learn, no problem. We will in either case, one way or another. The entire creation is the same reality. One path and no more. And we are all moving through it. We may have to go through a few cycles, but whatever the number that was always our personal path... And the same path everyone must walk, each in their own way.

[um]

@ Spence Tepper

I wrote and answer and for reasons I do not understand the link with this blog got lost and all the work was gone ...I take it as an omen and refrain from doing it again /...next time better

[um]

@ Spence Tepper

But let me write down something that was NOT in my lost answer.

One day I was visiting a book bindery in a monastery. At a given moment the book binder monk out of the blue turned towards me and said:
"look you cannot go on learning your whole life"

Obvious he was not referring to what he was doing at that moment as instructor in book binding.

[um]

Finally Spence

What I write most of the times are just personal [psychological] observations and reactions ..otherwise they have no meaning and value and are missing any teaching aspect or explanation for the existence of anything.

What I do know is that I am here, that we are here ..that is all. ..I have no idea about how we came to be here and why and whether there is a purpose to it or not.

Humans have created many narratives, narratives to live by that are both helpful and destructive as humans identify themselves so much that they are willing to kill and be killed for it ...the wars that are going on shows how that works out in practice.

[sant64]

Charming story about lattes and bank tellers. Now in other news:

"Yoon's martial law announcement sounded like a dream come true for Donald Trump. If the decree had been put into effect, political assemblies and demonstrations would have been banned, news outlets and journalists would have been jailed for promoting "fake news," and arrests would have been allowed without a warrant."

What a horrifying scenario of a possible future event. But why does it sound familiar?

Maybe it's similar to the 1000 or so people arrested for showing up to a political rally, and non-violently trespassing, labeled "seditious conspiracy" by the Biden Justice Department.

Maybe it's similar to that Justice Department's repeated attempts to portray Biden's political competitor as an agent of Russia, and leaning on the media to sell that story and block news to the contrary, eg The New York Post.

Maybe it was the SWAT raid on that competitor's home. Same Justice Department under the same president.

Maybe it was this president's pardoning of his son within an 11-year window that prevents legal action tied to his family with respect to 20 shell companies and over 20 million dollars of payments from foreign nationals for who knows what. All while said president was Ukraine's envoy.

Maybe it was the strange circumstances of a young "Republican" who was allowed by the same president's SS to take his time on an inexplicably unsupervised roof. Let's look into that...whoops, Justice cremated the guy, case closed.

I could go on, but you get the point. About casting stones.

Now another point: There's not one incident where Trump has taken retaliation against anyone.

Let me explain all this in simpler terms: The Biden administration's acts of lawfare are unprecedented in U.S. political history. So why don't you worry about that for 5 minutes and take a break from your bottomless paranoia over Trump?

Why not face up to how Biden's pardon of his son was a huge black eye not only for Biden's reputation but for the reputation of the presidency? Other democrats have. If you're looking for a way to grow, consider it. Rather than saying "good for him," a sentiment that only makes sense for someone who thinks it's wonderful when presidents protect their family members and themselves from lawful inquiries about large-scale corruption and using the office of the VP to make private deals.

Why not that, instead of doubling down on the "Trump will be a dictator it's the end of democracy" trope we've heard ad nauseam for the last 8 years.

If you dems care about democracy as much as you say you do, then when will you start acting like it? You lost the election, and you're still trying to sell this "sky is falling the dictatorship is here" canard to anyone who will listen. Got news for you on that: Few are listening. We know this as a fact because we just had an election, Trump won in a landslide, which means 8 years of media, Justice Dept and gunmen assaults were a failure.

The people chose Donald Trump. You're crying into the wind.

[um]

@ Sant 64

If there are just two choices and you do not want one choice to continue, what remains is not voting or voting for the other party.

That doesn't mean that that choice is a choice FOR the one chosen.

In our political system we call such a choice strategic choosing.and many came to regret such a choice later..

After the WWII the common people have seen their future to earn their own living etc being taken away from them. Irrespective who was in power ..do you think that the president Elect will be able to restore justice?

Do you think that what has been sold out to China in terms of labor, will come back??

[Ron E.]

@ Brian: - “That's all we can hope for from life. Learning. Becoming more skilled. Having more compassion and love.”

Fine sentiments Brian, if only people could learn such things. Perhaps through such learning it is possible to ‘reprogramme’ the brain to enable it to predict differently and to respond more sanely rather than react inappropriately. But on the whole, I don’t really think that people generally either aren’t bothered or are much too entrenched in their particular conditioning they literally can’t’ change.

sant64’s comments show this inability. He refers to the Capital’s storming as non-violent trespassing, whereas we all saw and heard Trump ‘stirring’ them up after the election and the extremely violent proceedings after. And another doozy – it came as no surprise to the rest of the world that the rhetoric Trump uses to all those who oppose him sooner or later someone would take a potshot at him. sant64 believes it was Biden’s SS who ‘allowed’ it.

This sort of conspiracy thinking is hard to combat. Trump himself has often embraced such theories and I can’t see at any time such people changing – or seeing the point of changing. It’s similar to some religious beliefs, they are so ingrained they have become a large part of people’s identities, to let go of them would be like letting go of their very lives. To drop such beliefs, feels like a death, and in a sense it always is when the illusory self-structure is threatened.

[um]

Stepping back, looking from a greater distance what ever appears to day all over the world has its roots in the past. Real absolute causes are difficult to find if they exist at all but one can see tthe changes of society and culture after WWII.

The structure that people lived by and shared with one another is more or less completely gone.

For those that live in the usa, just have some coffee, sit back, and ask your selves where the Democrats came from, who where there ancestors, what were there ideals and how dit that change over time.

Do the same with the republicans.

What were the classes in society in 1945 and see if they are still there and if so how they changed.

See what was appreciated in society in those days and now.

Why came the explosion of education came to be.
Why did the many higher education institutes grew?
What are the consequences if everybody with a an IQ above 100 seeks to follow higher education.

Have you ever considered that for the proper execution of certain jobs, positions, not only a high IQ, higher education is needed but also social and cultural training, schooling.

About new and old money, about old and new elite and how that works out in the two political choices.

Maybe you will come to understand, drinking coffee, gazing out of the window, that a massive group of people are left behind, neglected and exploited ...and i hardly dear to write it down by people that have their roots in that very group.

They are frustrated, angry realizing what has happened to them, that their future has been stolen from them. ...that they are no longer neeeded.

[um]

P.S.

The french are clever ... besides their appreciation for the country in terms allowing some to become members of the Legion d'honneur" or "l'academie francaise" they have also created an title for crafts men and women, a tittle that has the same status.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Honour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meilleur_Ouvrier_de_France

Just see that MOF list and ask yourself whether that same appreciation is thhere in your country .... if not you might come to understand what is going on.

[Jim Sutherland]

Ron E ”observes:,…….. sant64’s comments show this inability. He refers to the Capital’s storming as non-violent “

Ron, you have missed watching the many videos showing and proving, that it was FBI Agents in disguise stirring a Mob, and rioting, not American Patriots. You don’t have enough American skin in the game to be able to challenge Sant64’s excellent observations and conclusions to what really happened on Jan 6. The Truth will be revealed, when the new FBI Director, Kash Patel takes over on Jan. 20th. Buckle Up, as it’s gonna be a rough ride for Progressive Woke Liberals.

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim sutherland

>> Buckle Up, as it’s gonna be a rough ride for Progressive Woke Liberals.<<

How strange that the first thing all dictators have had in mind ever since antiquity, is to get rid of the intelligentsia.

[Jim Sutherland]

Um, Trump was chosen by American Patriots to fix AMERICA, not the rest of the world. Listen to how simple American Patriots like Glenn Beck , a Mormon , Expects Trump to do, as sant64 has posted here for Progressives to try and understand.

https://youtu.be/3GE__OZNz7A

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim sutherland

I have listened to the Video ..the man said HOW the president elect is going to do it and vaguely for WHOM. Vaguely because ..america first ... can be a goal and a means to an end.

Listening to the man made me think of how the italian organized crime "offered protection" to the shop owners.

Yes many things that happens behind the doors of the governing elite cannot stand the daylight, That is how it always has been. Niccolo Machiavelli explains it all in his book
"Il Principe"

Read some of the stuff here:"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli

Wait and see.

and ... The late"Duce" ..the saviour of Italie, Beniti Mussolini did many things for the people and the nation, things for which he is even remembered today ...Yet ... his own people hanged him upside down ...why?

[um]

@ Jim Sutherland

Turn your focus on the middle east for a moment to see how Israel executes in the same way as the man in the video ... about the coming sheriff.

In Israel they call their actions DEFENSE ...alright .... but ... my reaction would be ... there are many other ways to defend yourself at a lower cost

History tells us that people never forget what injustice has been inflicted upon them and by whom ...it can take years, decades but sooner or later it will all bounce back.

[Jim Sutherland]

Um ,…..thanks for taking the time to watch the short video. He cuts to the chase, as simple as possible, explaining what American Patriots who voted Trump in to office , expect him to execute, this time around, by his appointed Cabinet picks and Confidants. He knows that his life hangs in the balance, of being killed sooner or later, with several failed attempts already, even before he won the Election. But he has more Security now.
If you were an American, you would know that there is ALWAYS 1/3 of people that loves their President, and 1/3 who hate him, and the other 1/3 are neutral, until they become ……..Persuaded by either of the other 1/3rds. Presently, Trump has the Majority who are supporting him, at least long enough to see if he will keep his promises to do what he said he is going to do, during his long Campaign. WE, who have supported him since 2015, and voted for him all 3 Elections, are labeled as Domestic Terrorists by the Biden Crime families Regime, as well as by the Progressives. We have also been labeled as Nazis, Racists, Begets, Homophobes, Deplorables, Garbage , Cultists, Zombies, …..and too many other labels to remember during the last 8 years by Trump haters with the disease of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
With all of the above commentary, I believe other Countries wanting to become Populists will follow suit, as they witness the unfolding of the Actions of the Trump Regime.
Stay tuned!
Jim Sutherland

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
Thank you for your comments.
You wrote
"One day I was visiting a book bindery in a monastery. At a given moment the book binder monk out of the blue turned towards me and said:
"look you cannot go on learning your whole life""

We are always learning whether we like to admit it or not. We can be influenced even without our conscious participation, by the company we keep, the environment inwhich we find ourselves.

It is true that we certainly don't get anywhere unless we put what we have learned into action. So learning for learning's sake cannot replace the duty to act. And even avoiding action we are still acting, just without purpose.

And while acting with purpose and commitment we learn important things we could not have learned otherwise.

To be centered, happy, observant and active are all part and parcel of both learning and doing. Because learning is doing and doing is learning, right?

How to maintain that balance? Enjoy your coffee and look out the window.

No one is happier under even the most difficult circumstances, happy, learning, adapting, accepting, as the one who owns their commitment.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jim
Please re-read your comments and see the level of blame placing you engage in against others, while accusing them of doing the same to you.

No one else should matter unless you have some interest in helping them.

If you really want to be helpful, and work for unity, try to understand what is legitimate in the other person's view you are arguing against in your own imagination.

Demonizing them is a self-inflicted wound.

"Indulging in hatred is like drinking poison and thinking the other person will die."
Dalai Lama

[um]

@ Spence Tepper,

I don't know why, but the words you write and especially stressed and underlined .. were .. never part of the vocabulary of the late MCS ...and ...THAT ... does ring a bell.

How much do I love the sentiment behind the advice that he gave to an Indian gentle man that sought his advise on religious/spiritual education of his children ...Give them a good example and let them grow.

Two elements, both for the father to understand:

[1] YOU ..you that come before me, forget about your children, focus on yourself ..FIRST see to it that YOU yourself become a worthwhile example ..keep silent there for ...
[2] and when you have grown to that spiritual maturity, remain mum ..do not dear to lay your hands on them, ..they are not YOU children ..they are responsible for their own life

[Jim Sutherland]

Hi Spence,….Who’s fight is your dog in? YOU MUST have your own personal positions in what I posted. In spite of being silent , or offering your positions.

So,…..come on Spence, let’s hear your positions?

As an American, are you a Progressive, or a Patriot, or a Populist, or Moderate, or a Liberal, or a Conservatism, or a ???

As an American Jew, what’s your silent position on Israel’s genocide of Palestinians, …..estimate last count by Some, of 46,000 deaths, mostly civilians, cornered like rats in a Maze, bombed, starved, herded like cattle in to supposedly ‘Safe” places, then bombed again? The entire world knows who the real Terrorists are by now, because it’s in our faces daily, on the Internet. So, as an American Jew, are you neutral in it……..or in agreement with the U.S. continuing to supply more support to Israel to “keep defending them selves” against an attack that happened over a year ago.

You also must know that Trump and Net are friends, and Trump biggest donors are Billionaire Jews? Do you wonder how he will stop the Genocide with out abandoning his Billionaire Jewish donors? Come on Spence, you must have picked a Lane to ride on. Come clean, and tell us you’re wearing blind folds to the word’s politics, watching the Biden Progressives leading us right in to WWIII before Trump even takes office.

Do you care? Whose fight is your dog barking at?

https://youtu.be/nmgDf6QiCps

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim Sutherland

How is The president elect going to stop what is going on in the middle east?

[Jim Sutherland]

Um, ….it all depends on how indebted he is to his Billionaire Jewish donors. But he definitely is NOT a War Monger of the Military Industrial Complex, and if you remember when the Iranians shot down one of our Drones and Trump’s “Advisors” wanted to retaliate with scores of Missiles, Trump asked the estimated number of casualties that could be expected, he was told about 150, as I recall. He responded that that was too many human lives for one Drone, and he refused to send the Missiles.
So, I have high expectations he will negotiate a Deal with the War Mongers beating the War drums, and stop the war .
An Iranian Change of Leadership will end the Middle East conflicts. The Son of the late Shah is ready and fully able to return to Iran and lead the country after the present regime is over thrown from the inside by Iran’s own people who want peace with the rest of the world.

Search the interviews of the Shah’s Son by Patrick Ben David on YouTube, who is an Assyrian who lived in Iran for 10 years during the Iraq/Iranian War. He is now a Naturalized American.

Jim Sutherland

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"I don't know why, but the words you write and especially stressed and underlined .. were .. never part of the vocabulary of the late MCS ...and ...THAT ... does ring a bell."

You have raised this criticism to me, and others, often, Um.

On the other hand our Master said that when we really understand the path we will see the lord in everyone.

We become mum precisely because there is nothing left to critize.

But perhaps what I wrote looks so different from what you heard simply because each of us sees things within the framework of our own individual conditioning. And so we see what appear as huge differences where there are none. The only difference is the distance between ourselves and our Master.

I think the idea of enlightenment is to raise that view.

Then there is nothing left to say, is there?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jim

You asked a few questions, and I will try to answer them in the context of Brian's blog... That seeing things from a different perspective entirely changes our opinion.

You wrote
"Hi Spence,….Who’s fight is your dog in? YOU MUST have your own personal positions in what I posted. In spite of being silent , or offering your positions."

Politics is the arena of complaint, and I have nothing to complain about. In the voting booth I make my best decision.

You wrote...

" As an American, are you a Progressive, or a Patriot, or a Populist, or Moderate, or a Liberal, or a Conservatism, or a ???"

It matters so little that I would never allow it to become a barrier to friendship. Rather than focus on politicians my focus is on being a better citizen instead.

You wrote...

" As an American Jew, what’s your silent position on Israel’s genocide of Palestinians, …..estimate last count by Some, of 46,000 deaths, mostly civilians, cornered like rats in a Maze, bombed, starved, herded like cattle in to supposedly ‘Safe” places, then bombed again?"

I was raised in a home where my parents left Judaism when I was four years old because oue Rabbi taught his congregation that Isreal is a place in spirit, not this physical realm. The place the lion lays down with the lamb, the Lord's Holy Mountain, isn't here. And therefore no square inch of land was worth one single tear, let alone a drop of blood. That was is 1962. So this is what I was raised to believe.

Rabbi Goldstein was fired for his views. But I still see him as everything Judaism was meant to be. So perhaps I haven't left Judaism at all.

I cannot fault people stumbling around in the dark dnd getting into fights, except to say it is entirely unnecessary for happiness.

[um]

@ Spence Tepper

What I wrote is just an observation, the evaluation of the observation comes later.

[Spence Tepper]

What Brian's blog is teaching, in part, is that harmony with the world, be they a bank teller or barista, is understanding the situation of the "Other" person: the one you are angry with, or think you are angry with. The one you point your finger of blame at. The one you think is hopelessly mistaken. That may will be all your lack of awareness and understanding.

An attitude of compassion towards those who look different than you, act different, believe different is actually a tool to raise your own understanding: a tool to learn and grow.

It is this kind of learning and growing that can bring people together on a platform of understanding, of respect, based upon the active practice of observation, and that practice the product of two other practices: patience and compassionate.

[um]

@ Spence Tepper

I can't remember ever having had the intention to being good or bad, have compassion, having to learn something, having to grow beyond what I just happen to be.

There is us, us human beings, us natural beings, born and living in a culture a society, with its rules, its narratives .... simple labeled as the "public domain".... if there is anything to learn it is about that public domain, nothing more nothing less.

The tree does not need to learn of itself, nor the crow ..nor .. the human.
They do not have to change or learn for the better.

Their creator is thought to be said ...and I saw that it was good.

Then there are the "thieves" that come and try to seduce you to listen to them ..heAr upon me, I will tell you who and what you are, I will help you, I am en expert .. you need me.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
Trees grow limbs and leaves, even fresh fruit, throughout their lives.

They never stop growing. That is what God/ nature built into them. The tall mighty tree with wide shade giving comfort and rest, and hundreds of pounds of new fruit is no insult to God.

This is what they said was "Good." And the mature tree is no insult to the younger ones. But instead it lives for the love within itself, the force of life that keeps it growing.

So it is with humans and learning. We grow, not by sprouting new limbs, or baskets of food for others, but new understanding. And in sharing that, we express and use our voice as we were meant to. We are built for it. It happens with or without our conscious awareness.

But we grow most, and in ways that yeild great strength and tolerance, when we actively participate.

[um]

@ Spence Tepper

What you call discovery and growth is projection.

Participate in what?
Stones happen to be there, like the trees, the animals and the human.

There is nothing to participate in n nature ...but in culture there is....as we can see in the ongoing wars.

Those that kill and are killed all participate in something that does NOT exist but in their minds....things they identify with, things that are real in their minds as their own body.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote:
"What you call discovery and growth is projection."

Perhaps when you say "what you call.." is actually your projection.

[um]

@ Spence Tepper

Hahaha ..take it as you like.

Projection, comes in many ways and forms, like ego.
There is more to projection and the concept of ego than commonly is usable.

There is the projector, the projection and what is projected.
All parts can appear as positive, neutral and negative.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um:
You wrote:
"There is nothing to participate in n nature ...but in culture there is....as we can see in the ongoing wars."

Wars don't arise out of knowledge, but ignorance and the illusion of knowledge.

People acting on emotion and then creating explanations reactively as justifications for their behavior, which, in truth, was outside their own control.

You wrote:
"Those that kill and are killed all participate in something that does NOT exist but in their minds....things they identify with, things that are real in their minds as their own body."

That emerges from their subconscious, without any conscious control or participation. Even they have no clue as to why they hold such views. And they generally have only excuses and invented justifications for their actions. The actual source of those actions, they may be clueless about. Sometimes, after the fact, people are ashamed or contrite over what they have done. And their behavior can change for the better, to the degree they become aware of it and choose to take full responsibility for it.

So, becoming conscious and aware, particularly of what is within you, is a good thing and leads to harmony with the world within and around you. Then you can say "I understand..I chose this...I realize my limited awareness and stay open and observant, patien, tolerant, forgiving....because I see how little I actually know.." etc. Your active participation, your attention to your own inner life is essential for that. This is what meditation can help you with, so that your normally distracted attention, emotional and unconscious reactions, caught up in all these concepts, can withdraw into the natural place within you. And that is a place of constant peace, happiness, strength and inspiration. Then that is you taking control, in stages. And so you don't need to identify with all these physical things around you. They aren't you.

Even the sacred coffee isn't you.

[um]

@ Spence

After a quick glance on the last entrance, I thought to make myself a cup of coffee first. While gazing at the wall, waiting for the machine to do its miracle the though came to me that fortunately for humanity the late MCS was not such an eloquent writer and speaker as you are. His words in its simplicity and deepness were open to all, irrespective of their level of knowledge..

Most people, that were sitting before him, would not understand a word of what you write even if it was translated into the best of Punjabi or Hindi

No it is not a criticism.... it even has nothing to do with you.

No tree needs help to be what it is and do what it is, no crow no human being.
There is nothing to do all has been done..

[um]

Just watching on YOUTUBE / NBC the broadcast of the re-opening ceremony of the cathedral de la Notre dame de paris ..for those that love collateral information, reading body language and "gazers" it is a feast to wittiness.

Hahaha ..Your president elect was also there ...hahaha

[Jim Sutherland]

@Um and Spencer, regarding your comments on “Projection”,……Obama has his own current projections, regarding Democrats loosing the Election.

https://youtu.be/E3YUP0exCt8

Also, I saw the Cathedral in Paris when I was in Paris in May 2019, and the top was still burnt away.

Both Trump and Biden were there. I wonder if they shared their Hotel Room in order to save American Tax Payers a little money? Haha. Or at least, shared the same Security Guards, and rode in the Uber Beast together.

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim Sutherland

Let us suppose that the election has not been manipulated, and accept that the American population voted in favor of the republicans, so much so that both houses are in their hands and the presidency.

Please tell me what groups,/ social classes brought that majority vote about?

If I am right, it is both the Under class and the upper class, ...those that have not enough money to live a decent life and those that have to much.

[Jim Sutherland]

@Um,…I disagree with your thought. I think it was the Middle Class Americans , like me, that have been being taxed to death for years, and have been forcefully funding Progressives Sorosian Agenda , who finally rose up, took back our Power, and VOTED, for Republicans across all lines.

Plus, I don’t have the least doubt, that Democrats didn’t try to cheat on every possible area they could do, with out getting caught, but this time, with out the Covid Scam, and Lock downs, and Republicans doing doing Early Voting, There just was not enough cheating left to silence , not only Middle Class Republicans, but many Democrats as well, who have followed RFK Jr., Elon Musk, and Tulsi Gabbard, who were all high powered Democrats who partnered with, and supported Trump’s Agenda.

It’s easy to see, as Sant64 has unwrapped why Democrats lost this Election.

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim Sutherland

IF ..the sitting political party would have been republican, they would have lost also.

Your country and great parts of its population is in very bad shape. and that has develop[ed over the years ... no government will be able to repair what has destroyed in decades.

You see for many that have to earn their living with their hands, there is simple no work as that work has been exported to low- wages countries. The middle class depends for their income on these people.

The irony is that the USA destroyed after WWII many agriculture markets and made many countries depended on them for food and now it bounces back upon them as they have lost theior industries at the same countries.

[Jim Sutherland]

Um writes “ Your country and great parts of its population is in very bad shape”…..

Then why do people still keep migrating here, both legally, as well as illegally? So you better hurry up and come here before Jan. 20, 2025 when the borders will all close , or grab your VISA and come for a visit , because , unless you are able to contribute some thing of value to the U.S. , rather than just an excuse to flee from your Socialist failing countries, than I recommend staying where you are, or relocate to the U.K. , or any where else in Europe that look down on Americans as uneducated low IQ Barbarians.
And it’s still comical, that those who have never once visited the U.S. still dream of relocating and living here, among us Barbarians, HaHa.
So, you still have time to move here, Um. Americans can always use more Psychologists like you. I suggest moving right in the heart of the Big Apple, i.e. Manhattan, NYC, which is a Sanctuary City, where The Mayor protects illegals from being deported.
Or, perhaps Brian Hines might let you pitch a Tent and live on his large property in Oregon, which is a Socialist Progressive State of Sanctuary Cities for Migrants .
But please hurry, as the clock is ticking, and open borders are closing quickly.
Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim Sutherland

Thank you for the offer and the invitation.

You see Jim ..someone, an immigrant in this country, with sadness in his eyes said, .."what is this for a country that is not able to sustain its own children"

Nobody Jim, Nobody will leave his place of birth, the place where his roots are, if he is not forced to do so.

The USA is a land of immigrants

[um]

Land of immigrants = a conglomerate of ethnic groups
a land where the "english" still try to "rule the waves", fight the "spaniard" and the "french"

[Jim Sutherland]

@Um,…here is what we Americans are about:
"I received a letter just before I left office from a man. I don’t know why he chose to write it, but I’m glad he did. He wrote that you can go to live in France, but you can’t become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Italy, but you can’t become a German, an Italian. He went through Turkey, Greece, Japan and other countries. But he said anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American."
President Ronald Reagan

About 10 years ago, I personally attended a 4th of July Event in Virginia , at the Thomas Jefferson Estate, watching, and witnessing about 50 new Legal Immigrants taking their Oaths of American Citizenship, swearing Oaths to follow our Laws, protect our Citizens, and even fight against foreign invaders to our country. Of the 50, all who were introduced by their Names, Countries of Origen, and how long they had been living in the U.S. since legally immigrating, as well as their present occupations,…..I couldn’t even pronounce their Names correctly, let alone know much about the Countries they came from. We were about 200 Visiters at the Event, and I, along with all other Visitors stood, with tears flowing from our eyes, ( tears are flowing right now, just remembering!! ) welcoming 50 brand new American fellow Citizens, to our Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, where American Dreams are still possible, to those who contribute, follow our Laws, and work hard, following the 3 Rules of success, which are,….(1) Our work must be Legal, (2) Moral and (3) must help others besides our selves only.

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim Sutherland

Again .. nobody leaves what is near and dear to him, if he is not forced.

Yes, if those that are forced to leave their HOME land are welcomed in another land they naturally will rejoice that, but the pain, the memory will still be there.

There are no Americans. ...for the very reason you wrote in that letter

Those that call themselves Americans are "English" the rest lives if they can in nationalistic pockets where they can go on cultivating their nostalgia, their European roots

American do not have a common culture like the Chines have, the Indians, The Russians ...Marshal Tito, managed to have the different groups in the balkan live together ...but only for a while. ..it was artificial ..america is a kind of Yugoslavia.
where the English, anglosaks and other Ferman tribes controll the rest.

[Jim Sutherland]

@Um, you wrote “ There are no Americans”. Charan Singh agreed with you, that there are nothing but HUMANS. As we ALL are.

Jim Sutherland

[um]

Hahaha Jim

It reminds me of how he, although being all humans, differentiated between the different nationalities ..those of South Africa were even hosted in an separate Hostel ...I need not to remind me how he handled you americans.

[Jim Sutherland]

I’m,…Had I have died before finally visiting the Dera my first time at age 75, I’d disagree with you. But now, having been there, and have witnessed how Foreigners are treated, verses Indians, I have to agree with you. Gurinder Singh answered such a question in a Q & A session, when asked why foreigners are treated differently than Indians,…he said,..”Well, they get what THEY want,….and I get what I want.”

So, I guess the morel of all of our stories is,…”Do what I say,…not what I do.”

Jim Sutherland

[um]

I have always understood the attitude towards the different nationalities as compassionate and wise ... If for example the people from South Africa would not have had their own place, they would have had to face the whole day questions from other "brothers and Sisters"about "apartheid".

And there was a reason also to keep the indians away from the non indians

His Idea was that one should not spoil one's visit to the Dera, with questioning others about their nationality etc etc.

I

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"the late MCS was not such an eloquent writer and speaker as you are. His words in its simplicity and deepness were open to all, irrespective of their level of knowledge.."

Wait a minute Um. I'm more eloquent than Master? Are you insane?

You cannot compare the teacher to their struggling students. That's crazy.

When I read his words or hear his recordings today, I learn things I didn't realize when I had first heard them decades ago.

That's how it is with students. Always learning and growing. Don't make people wrong for their imperfections, Um. Honor their efforts and intentions.

The point is not to raise yourself higher than others through criticism but to come together on the platform of common beliefs, common struggles through appreciation if what truth you can find in them.

What you find in them is in you. What you cannot find in them is hidden from you (but still there, just hidden).

[um]

@ Spence

No I am not crazy, ..

Whenever you write here, I am reminded of what you wrote quite a while ago, about the debate culture at home. You were not allowed to leave the table ....... the rest you know.

[Jim Sutherland]

Um, you wrote,….” His Idea was that one should not spoil one's visit to the Dera, with questioning others about their nationality etc etc.”

Gurinder Singh quickly took that a step further. He banned ALL Socializing in the Satsangs, before and after and during! In order to say Hello to our Satsangi friends, we had to do it, outside in the Parking lots!

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim Sutherland

That restricting what is labeled as "socializing" is not started by his successor but was started already under the late MCS.
That socializing has developed in the west and expanded in such an way that it was no longer acceptable.

Hahaha .. I know how it started, reached its peak and its down fall ..and enjoyed it.

Hahaha ..in the beginning when there were not jet properties people would have satsang in a first class Hotel in Amsterdam ..after Satsang part would gather in the lunch have coffee and later have diner in one of the newly opened Indian restaurants in Amsterdam.

I understand why they stopped it but the way it was executed was not that well ..find some word that suits you as reader.

[um]

@ Spence tepper

That's how it is with students. Always learning and growing. Don't make people wrong for their imperfections, Um. Honor their efforts and intentions.

Read it a couple of times Spence
Again and again

Then have a look in the mirror.
Think about yourself
Think of him

Forget me

[Jim Sutherland]

@Um,…you write,….” That socializing has developed in the west and expanded in such a way that it was no longer acceptable.”

I think, that Socializing among Western Satsangis now, has been developed at the Dera, haven been transformed in to a “Time Share” Resort for Foreigners, , maintained by Indian Sevadors, being kept isolated from Westerners , in order that they not to be “soiled” by Western Pagan beliefs and Socialism.

Jim Sutherland

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"Read it a couple of times Spence
Again and again

" Then have a look in the mirror.
Think about yourself
Think of him

"Forget me
So I guess this is really my point..

We are not so different.

[um]

@ Spence Tepper

"We are not so different"

What stone to throw in the pond?
Hmm... Alright ..this one.

What ever exists, is an unique variation of the same.
\Both vertical as horizontal.

So in a sense we are the same; the same as human beings but in that sameness we are also unique ...there was never one Spence before you nor one after you leave this world..

By being in his presence, absorbing his words, or something else by no name ..I have come to understand these simple things that no thing, for that reason, can be changed for the better, has to learn or can learn.

Culture, the artificial nature, the man made creation, forces human beings to think that they can learn, have to learn and develop in order to participate to the best in that public domain.

That is by itself no problem ..as long as you remember to be human

And maybe that is not enough but that is just a notion of something beyond my reach.

[umami]

Jim,
Didn't you get into conflict at Dera and storm out? You told a story once. I can't remember the details.

[Jim Sutherland]

@umami,….that’s the story of my life. Nobody remembers my stories. But I never stormed out. I left as previously scheduled.
Jim Sutherland

[umami]

Jim,
Okay, not important.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"..to me, religion is something which unites you with the Lord.." ..spiritually at base of religion is same.." -Maharaj Charan Singh Ji

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8MxagskI2c
(approximately between 0:20 - 0:45)

A new vid. just posted above by your old teacher. And man, in my opinion your day at the bank and coffee house was a blessing in disguise -you showed true mindfulness..

The stuff Charan taught, radha soami 🙏

[Jim Sutherland]

@umami,….I am always curious of the real identity of posters here, like you using weird Avatars to hide from who they are. I’m a fairly good Detective, when I follow the Trails. In your case, my best guess, of why you’re here, and interested in Exer Sant Matters, is, you are an Ex Ching Hai initiate. She is a Viet Namise female Guru initiated by Thakar Singh. You are an American living in Japan, married to a Japanese Wife? Correct me if I’m wrong.
Your Avatar led me to you. “ Umami is felt by the surface of the tongue palate unlike some other taste such as saltiness or sweetness that can be felt/tasted most strongly on the tip of the tongue,"
Jim Sutherland

[umami]

Hey, Jim.

I am American, that much is true, but I'm a Charan Singh initiate of almost 40 years.

There is a weak Japan connection. I tried my hand as an English conversation teacher in Tokyo one year before taking root in New York City, where I've been for about 30 years.

Married, yes, but to another American with similar Euro heritage, and we're both total libs!

Umami, yes, the "fifth flavor." The delicious, savory taste.

There is also a Ching Hai connection. I ate at her restaurant, Loving Hut, on 7th Ave once or twice when it was still open, a hole in the wall with a relentless video monitor of Sant Mat clone teachings and her as Master. An very weak connection on the surface, but the emotional trauma runs deep, and you must've picked up on that. I was stunned, puzzled, shocked, horrified!

Now, turn your gaze within. What other impressions does Spirit reveal?

[um]

@Umami

>> I am American, that much is true, but I'm a Charan Singh initiate of almost 40 years. you were initiared ar early age of 6
= 40 years satsangi => you were initiate around 1984
= 40 years initiated => you were initiated in 1950

[Jim Sutherland]

Hi umami,….thanks for removing your mask, some what. You are NOT who I thought you might be. My bad. But at least we now know you are a Charan Initiate, so you should expect to be treated as an Elder Brother to the Gurinder Initiates here, because no matter how far you’ve strayed from the Path, you are always hooked to Charan’s Bulldozer Chain, which could be yanked with out notice.
Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim S.

>> .....which could be yanked with out notice.<<

Please explain

[umami]

um,
1985. I was 22. I'll be 62 pretty soon.
40 years in the spring.

[Jim Sutherland]

Um, …if you haven’t you ever heard Charan say in his Tapes , that Marked Souls are protected from birth through death, even before they were drawn to the Path, or initiated by a Master. And all Masters only collect and initiate certain Marked souls who are drawn to them. Those Masters protect ONLY those Marked souls whom they have initiated, not any other souls in the world. Their Mission in not finished until they lead every last soul they initiated in to Sachkhand. Charan said no soul could stray far enough away from the Path that his Bulldozer Chain would not be able to pull him/her back to the Path.
He gave many examples, such as Christ having 100 Sheep, and only one straying away from the path, and Christ leaving the 99 to retrieve the straying rebellious one. He gave another example of the Sheep Herder send his Sheep Dog out, to retrieve his wandering sheep. BBJ his been Charan’s Sheep Dog in Charan’s absence.
Jim Sutherland

[Jim Sutherland]

Umami,…you are my daughter’s age, and only a year older than my son. You were initiated much younger than I was, because I wasn’t initiated until age 45, …so your Bulldozer chain is much longer than mind.
Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Umami

Thank you ...22, that was quite young

[um]

@ Jim S.

..I had problems with the translation of the word "yank"
The rest I am quit familiar with.
Thank you

[Jim Sutherland]

Um,…”Yank” is an American slang word for a quick, sudden pull.
Jim Sutherland

[umami]

"you are a Charan Initiate, so you should expect to be treated as an Elder Brother to the Gurinder Initiates here"

Jim,
In my experience, expectation is where all the trouble starts.

[Jim Sutherland]

Umami, I fully understand why after living in New York, for 30 years, you are a dyed in the wool Lib! My Sister worked and lived in Manhattan for 44 years. She sold her 2 bedroom Condo Apartment that was on the 8th floor of the Building next to the U.N. Building, on United Nations Boulevard just a year ago. She lived in that Condo for 24 years after buying it. She sold it for less than what she paid for it! Plus, she was paying $3500.00 per month Home Owners Fee when she sold it! She is now 77, and is infected with the usual case of TDS of every New Yorker I’ve ever met. She now lives in N.C., In the 2nd new house she just moved in to, in a neighborhood of many other N.Y. Libs that fled N.Y. that hate Trump, and Conservatives. She has been there for 4 years now. I have only visited her once, and we never discuss Politics, but she turns off CNN on TV when I’m there! Plus, she makes certain to NEVER, NEVER let any of her N.Y. Lib friends visit her when I’m there. She is paranoid that they will discover that her Brother is a Conservative Red Neck.
Jim Sutherland

[umami]

Jim,

Well, when the going gets tough, the tough get going, but it sounds like your sister denied you every opportunity to let your guard down and be vulnerable. Maybe she couldn't allow herself either. Do we hate Trump or only want more give and take like in any healthy relationship?

I guess if we MCS initiates are Elder Brothers, a responsibility comes with that. We have to set a good example. I hate to admit it.

[um]

@ Umami

>> I guess if we MCS initiates are Elder Brothers, a responsibility comes with that. We have to set a good example. I hate to admit it.<<

He said:
[1] GIVE them a good example and [2] LET them grow

He said it to a father irt to the education of his children but it is an advice applicable in many situations of human interaction. ...and he himself, lived by his own words and did set an example of living as a HU-man

For others life is a matter of growth in that, they too might be an example, .. I don't know ...whether that is a "resposibility" ..I tend to thing of ...NO, it is not
If it is there it is there and will have its effect.

[um]

@ Spence Tepper.

Seeking something in one of my books I just partly read or not at all, II came across this ....{ putting it here just for fun]:

>>We naturally expect years of meditation to change the content of our minds, to transform our personality. Yet, as the example of Sawaki and his student Uchiyama shows, we may remain the sort of person we always were. Years later4, Uchiyama [by then Uchiyama Roshi] told biographer Arthur Braverman that Sawaki had been right - after thirty years of practice, "I'm still a wimp!"<<

Ending the persuit of Happiness, a Zen Guide
barry Magid
Page 145

The born crow, lives as a crow and will die as such.
He was only here to observe, participate, etc as ..CROW

[umami]

um,
I see you as our senior executive in charge of crows and coffee.

[um]

@ Umami

Hahahaha ... time to make myself a coffee and treat myself to an refreshed "oliebol"in the microwave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKXXWOZ9ZJM

[Jim Sutherland]

@umami and um,…I recommended Kopi Luwak Coffee for um to try, but I am still waiting on um’s report of how it tasted, and if it has a unique wildish flavor. Perhaps you might like to add it to your exotic Japanese flavor, umami?

https://www.amazon.com/Luwak-Coffee-Gathered-Whole-Ounces/dp/B0030IGUIK

Jim Sutherland .

[umami]

Jim,
Do you think it's technically vegetarian? Civet cats will eat almost anything including carrion.

[Jim Sutherland]

Umami, I think it’s safe to drink, for Vegetarians, once it is washed , and the Beans are roasted. The first time I ever heard of the Coffee was in this excellent movie, one of my all time favorates. I really thought our Brother Um would have been enticed to try at least a Cup or 2 by now, since my recommendation many months ago, because of his Coffee addiction , and in his posts usually mentioning Coffee. But buying an entire pound before trying a cup or 2 might be wasting hard earned money, that could be put to better use, such as sending it to BBJ as Money Seva that he could either use for wheat flower to make Chapatis in the free Langar at the Dera, or use to buy fuel for his Jet Airplane .

https://youtu.be/VVJqwCdzZnw

Jim Sutherland