« Hey, I'm trendy! "Manifest" is the 2024 word of the year. | Main | Buddhist meditation and psychology can learn from each other »

November 22, 2024

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

So much for the Church of Hard Determinism.

The power of positive thinking has been around a very long time. "Think and Grow Rich"...
You have a job to do and within that job, creative visualization can help.
And most certainly, "I can't afford the luxury of a negative thought."

But what about those things you think you want, but are not obliged by job or duty to complete?
Why impose desire upon yourself? Or give undue power to single chosen drives, and suppress the rest of who and what you really are that you have yet to see, to meet, and become friends with?

Why not, instead, use the power of meditation to observe those desires you see and all those you don't, in their native form, in their natural state of balance or out-of-balance (however they arise without effort to control when you simply go to the trouble to calm down, put aside your desires for a moment, and have a look) and see where they actually come from? At least a layer or two down, before imposing those limited, chosen, and possibly unrealistic images upon yourself?

Why imprison yourself further, by your own limited thinking, when, in fact, you have instead, a limited capacity to open the door to your own liberation? If you choose to stop controlling, and start listening and observing?

If there are natural capacities within you, why not spend time listening and letting those arise in their own way? Rather than leave them in the unconscious, or worse, bury them deeper and deeper behind chosen "goals"?

Put your attention on something real, what you discover within yourself.

Why do we want to impose limitations from our blinkered and limited imagination, memory, limited attention desultory cat brain upon the entirety of our our own nature?

There is far more there we don't have a clue about, than what we think we know (but just believe). And that is more discovery than control. Why attempt to "control" what is already in a balance you have no clue about?
Rather, let's seek to understand what's there first.


This 'New age Manifesting' heavy heavy stuff.

Reminds me of the Sikh story of Atal Rai.

He was so good at manifesting, he brought one of his friends back to life with only 1 wish.

Then his father Baba Hargobind Singh the 6th Sikh Guru told him of the consequences of interfering with the boy's natural life line. That same night or a little after the Guru's son had to die to pay off taking on the heavy karma load of the siddhis power he displayed:

https://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/biographical/famous-sikh-personalities/atal-rai-baba/

Yep, that manifesting can be heavy, too heavy. But Naam/Kalma/surat-Shabd is the easy way -no karma is the aim.


Agreed, this is all perfectly reasonable, nothing woo to it.

What I see here once more points towards my initial impression when I read your first post in this series, Brian: that what he’s “teaching” is, apart from general mental-wellness, essentially a deliberate cultivation of monomania as far as some specific goal. Which, in specific instances, may well work, for some limited definition of “work”; but in general is probably not a very healthy thing! (I mean specifically the cultivated-monomania part, as it appeared to me. The the general-mental-wellness part is perfectly fine!)

Beyond that, I still don’t see any “manifestation” per se.

As you say, you’re only halfway through the book. No doubt the rest of it will clear that up.

(But again, the general mental-wellness part --- minus the induced-monomania-part-as-it-appeared-to-me, and minus the mention specifically of “manifestation” --- that makes sense, sure.)


----------


I’m afraid I’ve still not gotten down to watching/ listening to the rest of Dr Doty’s interview, that I’d referenced in my previous comment (on your other thread). Like I said, it’s a cool interview, as in informative about his overall thesis --- although, like I’d said there, he hasn’t yet, in the portion I’ve watched so far, actually spelled out the part about the manifestation per se.

I’ll jot down my specific notes and overall comments on the video once I’ve finished watching the rest of it.

Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Finished watching the rest of that video. Finally!

Afraid I’d been completely rushed these last few days. Still am, in fact. But I thought I really should finish watching this interview, no matter what --- because I actually found it very interesting!

I see Brian’s posted two new articles, on subjects that look very interesting, very promising! Afraid I’ve only glanced at them for now, not even taking in the actual content of them. I’ll get back to them later on, when I’m free. …For now, having finished watching the video --- and it took quite a bit longer than the half an hour that I’d left off watching last time, because I was pausing ever so often to jot down notes, and also repeating some portions, including portions I’d watched earlier. …Very interesting stuff, and I’m grateful, Brian, that you’ve introduced us to this guy and his work. …I was saying, for now, having watched the vid, I’ll try to quickly organize my thoughts and my notes, to put out my views about this video and about Dr Doty’s manifestation thing.

----------

Here’s how I’ll do this. For now I’ll just jot down my conclusions, in detail. And, should anyone actually be interested, and ask, then, in a separate comment, later on, I’ll try to flesh out why I think what I do, back up my opinions, bringing in specifics from the notes I’ve made of the video.

First, about Dr Doty himself: Great guy. Perfectly sincere. Multi-faceted talent, and very successful, in diverse fields. Genuinely compassionate. Not sanctimonious in the least.

Second, about his message generally, his teachings generally (not so much about his manifestation per se, let me take that separately, but about his message *generally*): It’s very positive, very affirming. I can see how it can be very helpful to many people. It’s generally free of woo. However, although Dr Doty’s a scientist himself, and although he keeps saying, many times, in so many words, that what he’s saying is nothing “woo woo” at all: nevertheless, I’m afraid there is actually quite a bit of woo in his message --- quite a bit that I found iffy. …Let me let me clear, when I say “quite a bit of woo”, well, it’s nothing like the Rhonda Byrnes nonsense, and by far the majority of what he says is perfectly reasonable and grounded in science and rationality. But I do want to point out that there are, indeed, elements of woo in what he teaches. …But I’d still say that those specifics are probably more like details, and by and large I found his message both reasonable and affirming and, by and large, these specifics excepted, indeed free of the “woo woo” that he himself keeps distancing himself from.

Third, about how I’d summarize his manifestation process per se: No, it’s nothing to do with the Rhonda Byrnes nonsense, like Brian’s spelled out already. Also, it isn’t, at all, about “inducing monomania”, as it had appeared earlier to me. What it amounts to is: Well, first, some breathing exercises, that sounded like elementary Pranayama exercises to me. Then some mindfulness practice. Cultivating a feeling of gratefulness. Arriving at centeredness. Realizing the futility of purely material desires. Understanding the dysfunctionality of craving, and so giving up craving. All of which helps the process of manifestation.

Fourth, the flaw in all of this: You may have noticed it yourself, when reading the above. It isn’t clearly mentioned how all of that results in manifestation.

In conclusion: Dr Doty’s a great guy, completely genuine. His views and methods are by and large reasonable and scientific. What he teaches can help people, certainly, particularly those not already acquainted with meditation. However: the big “however” is that it isn’t clear how the manifestation per se happens; and personally I’d be fully comfortable with his teachings if only he’d get rid of the “manifestation” label altogether. And the small “however” is that there’s definitely some bits of woo sticking to his message, even though he keeps claiming he isn’t “woo woo”; but again, the good thing is that the woo bits are probably not central to his message and so do not weigh down his message too much.

----------

And of course, all of that is basis my perusal of one single if very detailed interview video. No doubt there’s much to his actual message that might not have been captured in that video, and maybe stuff that I’ve gone away misunderstanding.

I’ll look forward to Brian’s further instalments of his review on this book, in order to arrive at a more complete understanding of Doty’s message.

Thanks, Brian, for introducing us to Dr Doty’s work. Very interesting, and I can see how in some cases that kind of message, properly delivered and absorbed, particularly by younger folks, can actually change lives.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.