Open Thread 48 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

Remember, off-topic comments should go in an Open Thread. 

As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Personal attacks on someone are an exception, as is hate speech. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[sant64]

Progressivism is dying.

The fact is that Trump won not just the electoral college, but the popular vote. And not only that. Trump's message won the Senate, and also the House. In other words, this election was a complete victory for Trump and the Republicans.

This landslide has nothing to do with political cycles, or misogyny. Biden and Harris are to blame? That's sore loser talk. They were your candidates chums. If they were the problem then that's on you.

But the key point here is this: The landslide is undeniable evidence that America doesn't want what you progressives are selling. Your joyful wares stink.

You peddled social Marxism, socialist wage controls, taking over the Supreme Court, keeping the borders open, putting men in girl's bathrooms, blaming the inflation that you caused on a conspiracy by corporations, DEI and associated endless resentment over race, higher taxes, feckless foreign policy, lawfare, obesity, suicidal kids, vote buying, ad nauseam. You fed that shit to America and America said thank you, no more, we'll vote for the guy you tried so hard to put in jail. The guy you (successfully!) tried so hard to demonize so that people would shoot at him. And did shoot at him.

Progressives, accept it, America saw your works. That's why you lost. It had nothing to do with cycles. Try to accept it. If you had to do this election season allll over again, you would still lose. All the joy and hatred you tried to sell were a billion and 20 million dollars of lipstick on a fat pig of unappealing dreck.

Dear progressives, please ignore all this, as I'm sure you will, and keep peddling the same woke merch the next election. It's clear which party is the one that's wildly out of touch with America.

You lost because you had nothing to offer, America recognized it, and voted accordingly.

[umami]

sant,
When will you accept victory? It's like you can't handle your booze.

[Tej]

Lol😂

[um]

What is going on in the USA and in other places of the world made me think of the de-colonialisation of the world... the people freed themselves from the colonial rulers and installed new rulers of themselves.[often "forced" upon them by themselves] but their lives went on as before....now beining "colonialised" by their own "chosen" rulers.

[sant64]

Omg. It happened. It really did happen...

What they warned us about for the last 4 years has actually happened!!!

They warned us about it. Oh boy did they, every day! Even Joe Biden! Even Kamala Harris!! And lo, it happened!!

THE END OF DEMOCRACY

TRUMP WAS ELECTED...AND THE ELECTION TO SAVE DEMOCRACY WAS L O S T

They all told us that if Trump was elected it was the E N D of democracy!

Now that Trump was elected, the end of democracy is here. It must be. But....why are they all so calm about it?

Could it be that they never believed the BS they've been spouting?

[Spence Tepper]

"In both percentage and raw votes, Trump’s margin is on pace to be less than half of what Biden achieved four years earlier.

"Meanwhile, there is ample evidence that Trump’s strong performance at the top of the ticket didn’t boost down-ballot candidates much.

"Of the seven battleground states, five also held Senate races and one had a gubernatorial contest. The Republican candidate won Pennsylvania’s Senate race, but the Democrat won the Senate races in Arizona, Michigan, Nevada and Wisconsin, and the gubernatorial contest in North Carolina. (In North Carolina, Democrats also won the races for lieutenant governor, attorney general, secretary of state, superintendent of public instruction and were narrowly leading in a state Supreme Court race.)"
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-size-of-donald-trumps-2024-election-victory-explained-in-5-charts

Since the division is nearly in half it is wiser to state that we still have a divided nation.
And it may just be how we view things. Some view Trump as a great leader, and others view him as a criminal who was a disaster when President. A vote may not be the standard by which to determine what is true, especially when both may be true.

We know Trump does not tell the truth. That's an established fact. But we also know he did some things worthy of acknowledgment.

"Democratic presidents have overseen the economy during periods of booming job growth. The economy added 23.2 million jobs during the Clinton administration, and another 10.5 million jobs during the presidency of Barack Obama.

Over the first three and half years of the Biden administration, the economy has added 16.2 million jobs."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clintons-claim-democratic-presidents-created-jobs-republicans-slightly/story?id=113065856

"The statistics for the entirety of Donald Trump’s time in office are nearly all compiled. As we did for his predecessor four years ago, we present a final look at the numbers.

The economy lost 2.7 million jobs. The unemployment rate increased by 1.7 percentage points to 6.4%.
Paychecks grew faster than inflation. Average weekly earnings for all workers were up 8.4% after inflation.
After-tax corporate profits went up, and the stock market set new records. The S&P 500 index rose 67.8%.
The international trade deficit Trump promised to reduce went up. The U.S. trade deficit in goods and services in 2020 was the highest since 2008 and increased 36.3% from 2016.
The number of people lacking health insurance rose by 3 million.
The federal debt held by the public went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion.
Home prices rose 27.5%, and the homeownership rate increased 2.1 percentage points to 65.8%.
Illegal immigration increased. Apprehensions at the Southwest border rose 14.7% last year compared with 2016.
Coal production declined 26.5%, and coal-mining jobs dropped by 25%. Carbon emissions from energy consumption dropped 11.3%.
Handgun production rose 12.5% last year compared with 2016, setting a new record.
The murder rate last year rose to the highest level since 1997."
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/trumps-final-numbers

We should look for ways to unit on common interest rather than point fingers of blame at one another.

As with all elections, it's now our job to stand behind our President and support him with any endeavors that make life better for the most vulnerable in our society, in the world, and to the benefit of the planet at large. And it is our duty to speak out when, whether by choice or ignorance, he errs in this sacred duty.

It no longer matters which party won. What matters now is can we work to the benefit of all? Now our duty is to act as one. Can we do it? More to the point, can I do it? Can you do it?

And that will require putting aside our sacred pet beliefs in favor of common shared values. A tough job for zealots, but a great exercise in controlling one's own mind and behavior.

[Ron E.]

Spence’s comments are quite reasonable and to the point. They complement what I have just been reading about extremism. Extremism is the promotion or advancement of an ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance. It’s seeming that some governments see it as a movement and in some cases it may be so.

Over the past few decades, extremists’ views have been gathering momentum, recently maybe, fueled by the ease to access information. Not that such info is bad, just that some hi-jack social media in order to put forward extremist views or simply stir up hatred and antagonize.

So much so that today the left hates the right and the moderates, the right hates the left and moderates hate everybody else – and so on. One of the casualties is science, whether they study and report on the climate medicine, environment, earth science, biology etc., there always arises (not just measured responses) but scare-mongering, often false information that can cause hate-filled, irrational and often hostile behaviour.

Maybe there is no answer, no antidote – except that perhaps when things get so bad, humanity has no option but to change.

[um]

It seems to me that there is a general tendency to focus on unwanted symptoms, the effects on something else, at the cost of the causes and prevention.

What we see now in the world had its momentum in 1968 and the globalization of the world. Regional bubbles are fighting for their survival, for the survival of their culture, their values and meanings and last but not least their social structure.

This revolution has had an impact on humanity far beyond what happened with and after the industrialization.

Just have some coffee and ponder over what is offered to the public by the media. Not only what but also who appears there, who can voice their opinions. Compare it with the flow of information in the days humanity had only newspapers, radio, etc at their disposal ..what kind of information was available and how big the radius of sphere of influence was.

Compare it with food ...in older days there was not that much food, their was hardly processed food and food was only available at certain moments of the day. Now have a look around in the societies of to day and you will see that all these restrictions and boundaries are removed ..so people stuff themselves, the whole day without any restriction. ...with the effect that the body cannot handle it.

The availability of data and its consumption can be compared with food and where the food effects the body the data effects the mind.

People think they can eat whatever they want, say whatever they want, look at whatever they want, lend their ears to whatever they want and forget that it effects them in ways they have no controll over, do not understand

The "I" can used his hands to lift the cup of coffee but that is all he has no idea of how it works, what causes what and what effects there will be.

We are still NATURAL beings and the CULTURAL man has almost lost all knowledge of being natural. ... and ...simple

[um]

P.S.

Humans are made to survive as human.
Whatever we have in terms opf "tools" like the senses is related to it.

So if you think that you can switch of the TV after having seen the last natural disaster, flooding whole villages etc, or the last update of the many [heinous] wars around the world, and leaders of nations that behave in such a way that you do not want them to have as friend, member of the family oi spend your live with, ...etc etc ...having no effect upon you you are wrong.

You are made to act upon what you see and hear in terms of survival.

Whatever you consume daily effects and threatens your survival mechanisms

[Ron E.]

Um. Food analogy quite good. Watched a programe yesterday about ultra-processed food and how it is very addictive. Apparently, some tobacco companies have gone into the ultra-processed food market as its very profitable - and they should know about addiction. Ween yourself off ultra-processed food (including coffee) and go back to natural food.

[um]

Hahahaha Ron .... coffee is one of the very few processed foods I consume and certainly adictive.

It has always been my attitude that if one consumes 80% good food one is allowed and even advised to consume 20% of junk food just for pleasure.

I do not eat everyday apple pie but when I do occasional, I will certainly not eat the sugar-less miserable satiation from alternative bakeries ...and ... with a dot of wiped cream

[sant64]

Kamala's response to losing the election? She implores her followers to "not let anyone take your power from you."

Just more evidence (as if we needed it) that when they lose elections, Democrats view democracy as slavery.

Thank God that demagogic DEI incompetent didn't win.

[sant64]

Jack Smith drops drops all charges.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[manjit]

https://youtu.be/cwYUjp590a4?si=mTxCWqnCyDu99K-7

Serfs, bow at the feet of your great moral leaders.

[manjit]

If we were to assume that the ability to love and love unconditionally is the primary characteristic and indeed purpose of the most noble and evolved of human beings, as is claimed by many NDErs for example, and that God itself is pure love, how on earth did we, our religions and theologies, come to the conclusion that humans are the most evolved and closest to divinity of all planetary life forms?

A mere few minutes observing any animal, a dog for example, would expose this as a lie conclusively.

[Manjitd_bookmaker]

How long before Trump and Elon have a massive and very public falling out which eclipses every other news, including the US-Israeli genocide of Palestine which continues unabated and with the full ignore-ance/compliance of US citizenry?

5/6 before May 2025
6/1 May 2025
5/6 after May 2025
100/1 Never

Place your bets

[manjit]

https://youtu.be/GHwUv_CPP0U?si=i-7are4yT0AKPw0j

Who would ever have thought the Catholic Pope would show more courage, compassion, moral clarity, courage and honesty than the entire secular western political, media and so called liberal classes combined?

[um]

@ Manjit

What is strange / remarkable , is the shift of the camera ... from the pope with an "angry?" voice making a statement about the refusal of the Israeli government to allow the patriarch Of Jerusalem enter Gaza and the fate of the people in Gaza to the smiling faces of "I signori cardinali"

[um]

Strange ...Today I saw fragments of a broadcast about overpopulation, and the effects on humanity and the ecosystem of the earth .

Against that background, what ever humans are doing to "make things better" is like symptom management in the medical world without looking at or addressing the causes.

I also saw something on a newly found tribe in the amazon and a short remark that they are doing well and have grown to 270 persons.

These two things made me think of the fact that the natural human being, like all the other "animals" are "made" to move around in order to stay alive.

Settling down, turned out to be the cause of the problems that humanity is facing now and which they cannot solve themselves.

Against that background, that realization all cultural achievements, of science, religion art etc etc make the impression of being useless, empty pass times.

Uchiyama Roshi, writes that with the death of a person also the world he live in vanishes, with the destruction of humanity vanishes also his cultural achievements,

The question arises whether humans were supposed to create culture .. produce descriptive knowledge, that does not add or change anything in nature.

He said
Live a natural life in a natural way
and
A simple life in a simple way.

Only when settled living in communities, cities and houses is it possible to accumulate things and that accumutlation of things destroys humanity

[manjit]

An alternative Christmas message from December 2023, unbelievably still applicable today:

https://youtu.be/sW2T5ErJys0?si=L2eTs7AmrWFmDDdt

Jesus would be killed in Gaza

Merry Christmas!

[manjit]

Discussing spiritual, mystical or metaphysical experiences and realities with words and concepts whilst not being entirely experientially submerged in them is like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic whilst it is sinking in the hopes of getting a good view of the Statue of Liberty 🗽 when approaching land; never the twain shall meet.

Thousands of years ago, some mystics said the ultimate nature of reality, consciousness and the divine is way, way, way beyond words and concepts.

Then they went and spoiled it by blabbing. Then blabbing some more. Then more and more and more and more blabbing ensued.

Then they forgot what it was they were talking about.

They should have just shut up at "it is beyond thought".

[manjit]

Or, perhaps, those mystics who penetrated to the very deepest of mysteries are allowed one human word to describe it:

Love

[manjit]

The inner astral landscapes proper are accompanied by inner sound (duh, I hear folks here say....but how much of that is mere hearsay? How many have actual experience of this for even a second, let alone hundreds of hours? For how many of us is this an intimate, experiential reality and not just an intellectual exercise in conceptual myth making, stories we have heard in books and satsangs which appeal to our intellect like a Harry Potter story?).

Inner sound is indistinguishable from inner architecture, scenery and light. They are the same thing.

Recently I have heard works of audible art, or music, which are about as close to astral inner sound experiences as I have ever come across I believe.

https://youtu.be/j47IFkbV7H4?si=5QZINK_kIQ20stPT

https://youtu.be/bwOOnzPEdVw?si=Kk1ES9JyyteXGN6l

With some good quality headphones or earbuds, close your eyes and give it a listen.

It is phenomenally close to the inner sound and light journeys imo.

And if you have a pinch of psychedelic at hand....then God bless you on your Heavenly journey.

[manjit]

"if you're honest enough with yourself".

I think there is a saying that 99% of spirituality is clear thinking?

Another way of saying this is 99% of spirituality is being totally, radically honest with ones own self!

I believe this to be utterly true. If you cannot be 100% honest with yourself then delusion is guaranteed.

[manjit]

Yes, all is ONE.

The question is, which ONE is it?

[sant64]

"I think there is a saying that 99% of spirituality is clear thinking?

That quote came from Jagat Singh. It was one of the favorite quotes of the Professor, who presented it as evidence that the RSSB gurus were rationalists.

But I think it likely that Jagat wasn't endorsing rationalism, but "vivek." Vivek or viveka is defined: Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination. Viveka means to know what is essence and what is not essence (saar and asaar), duty and non-duty properly.[1] Viveka is considered as first requirement for the spiritual journey. The next requirement in the journey in Vedanta, vairagya as known as detachment is a natural extension of viveka.

In other words, what Jagat deemed "clear thinking" was highly ideological (dualistic and religious) and pretty far from logical positivism.

Everybody fudges. That's one moral to the story.

The other is the stark and uncomfortable fact that nobody absolutely agrees with anybody else. Try as one might, there's not one person on earth who completely agrees with us on every topic. There's no evidence of oneness in any sector of our world. And yet the quest for Oneness continueth forever.

[manjit]

Interesting article on the rise of the technocrats.

Relevant quote for this group: "And as Anil Dash has remarked, “it’s important to remember, nobody becomes a billionaire by accident. You have to have wanted that level of power, control and wealth more than you wanted anything else in your life.” These are not, therefore, people that you want with power and control over the rest of us.".

How wrong this fellow must be...he obviously hasn't heard of the dude who became a satguru and then a semi billionaire!

https://www.dailygrail.com/2024/10/the-technocratic-conspiracy-how-tech-tycoons-plan-to-disrupt-democracy-and-become-the-new-rulers-of-the-world/

[manjit]

Ceasefire deal for Sunday 19th January.

Trump's inauguration on Monday 20th January.

Gaza holocaust 100% owned by Biden & Democrats, everyone who voted for Kamala effectively endorsed more than a year of the most barbaric crimes against humanity of recent times, as well as voting for it to continue.

Congratulations to Trump. I hope the ceasefire lasts and the Palestinians get some much needed relief. And the rest of us with hearts and a conscience get to breathe.

[umami]

manjit,
Forgive me, but it's almost like Netanyahu stalled negotiations to help his friend get elected and is wrapping the ceasefire in a pretty bow for Inauguration Day.
What gifts were pledged in return? Trump is anointed in Palestinian blood.

[manjit]

Hi Umami.

Wow. That is the most insane take I've heard on this! It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever on any level, and does not correlate to the known facts at all. It is a profoundly unsubstantiated and incoherent claim surely motivated by wishful thinking and a desire to not associate oneself with voting for genocidal maniacs, despite that literally being the case.

The only part of your comment that is worthy of any consideration is the "what gifts were promised" ....yes, we all know Trump will have offered the Zionists something, like exemption from prosecution by the icc of it's soldiers abroad as I believe was reported by Haaretz several days ago in their article saying Trump was the reason for the peace deal. But at least the slaughter will stop and that's the urgent issue here.

It should be noted Zionists are devastated by this peace deal as they were fully expecting to carry on their ethnic cleansing and genocide as Biden and the democrats had been fully supporting them right up until the end, with ANOTHER 8 billion dollars of US tax payer money sent to slaughter babies, children, women and men just less than 2 weeks ago.... absolutely insane!

There is no doubt that Biden, the self proclaimed Zionist, which is an implicitly racist, colonial and genocidal ideology, and who has received FAR more blood money from Israeli lobby groups than any other politician in the US over the past 24 years, is the chief proponent of this genocide along with his party.

Trump may have took money from Zionists, may have said they were best of pals in the run up to the election, but when it comes down to it he's ended the war in less than 1 day of his term.

Anyone who voted Biden and still thinks they weren't voting for genocide really should have a word with themselves, and try and be honest about it. Your rennet or egg phobias don't come close to genocide apologism or political support.

[umami]

manjit,

A Trump miracle! Don't be surprised if his media machine makes the word "miracle" and Trump synonymous. All the better to justify him and promote theocracy.

Are you too young to remember the Iran hostage crisis? Reagan's campaign worked behind the scenes to extend their captivity. In so doing they undermined Carter and made Reagan an instant icon. He took the oath of office, and 20 minutes later the hostages were released.

[manjit]

Unami - discussing this with my brother yesterday, yes I indeed mentioned the Iran affair with with Reagan! My brother mentioned something similar with Nixon.

Don't assume I don't fully understand your point and the historical relevance. Instead, try to research the current situation more deeply, then see if you can comprehend why in this situation, your suggestion is incoherent, irrational and just plain desperate, wishful thinking.

[sant64]

Months ago I predicted that if Trump won the election it would resolve the conflict in Gaza.

Well, I halfway predicted it. Part of me feared that the Warhawks in the GOP would make matters even worse for the Palestinians. But I suspected, or rather hoped, that if Trump won it would lead to progress for Gaza. And lo, it has come to pass.

We are currently experiencing a huge cultural sea change. I don't need to make a list, everything is getting better. All the woke nonsense of the last several years, repudiated by the public. BLM, take a knee, covid hysteria "you're going to kill grandma if you don't wear a mask!" sex change operations for kids, porn in the children's section of libraries under the aegis of free speech, futile war in Ukraine, high inflation, trillions spent trying to change the weather, name your pronouns, 34 felony counts for bookkeeping, false allegations of russian collusion, censorship by the helpful heads of the intelligence agencies, save the smell but let the homes burn, DEI dies, blanket pardons for president's son and president by president, men in women's sports, men in girls' bathrooms, Me Too movement, acknowledging privilege, safe spaces, pride flags, critical race theory, 1619 project, banning comedians, puberty blockers....what else..guess that's it no wait ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION OPEN BORDERS FOR 4 YEARS. Pulling down statues. "Cultural appropriation" Don't you even say the words karma or mantra you culture thief. Defunding the police - -that worked well. So did no cash bail and made all thefts under $900 basically penalty-free, so it's your fault the toothpaste is locked up at the CVS. Fat acceptance. Food justice. Prison abolition. Reparations. No ID is needed to vote, whee. Mail in ballots, wheee. "Anti Fascism" lol.

Turn the page, Trump is back, and you (your side) has only themselves to blame for that. The above list is proof enou.

[um]

@ Sant 64

There is no reason to think that any American President has even the smallest amount of compassion for the fate of indigenous people, wherever they are if this does not fit their national interests.

You are old enough to know the history of your country and the interventions of the amricans in other parts of the world after the WWII.

As long as there are Orthodox believers of the book are the ruling elite in Your country there is no reason to think that they are interested in the welfare of the offspring of those that once layed their hands on Jerusalem.

They ..The americans and the Israeli's have the power and they will use it to drive the descendants of the philistines of yore out of the country

[um]

@ Sant64

The founding fathers of your country could not manage to have it their way and had to flee from countries like where I live, stubborn, fanatic Orthodox Calvinists.
They imposed their will on the indigenous people in the Americas's

That imposing their will to others runs in the veins of the American people, and that is why they are hated all over the place.

They have a divine mission to spread the word ..THEIR word ..

[Jim Sutherland]

Um,…you write,…”The founding fathers of your country could not manage to have it their way and had to flee from countries like where I live, stubborn, fanatic Orthodox Calvinists.”

That’s where you Roman Catholics were, and still are, mistaken.

You Catholics are taught to DO penance for your sins, while We Calvinists are taught to RE pent of our sins.

Big difference. Costs much less also.

As for us “Ugly Americans who all countries hate”, I’ve toured 75 different Countries, including Amsterdam,…and have never wanted to leave my Country to live in any of those others I’ve visited, yet met those in every country that desired to live in mine, if given a chance, if they had Americans to sponsor them.

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim S.

What I write is not about personal preferences but an reaction to the ongoing issues here.

Jusat one illustration for the point I was trying to make with the reaction of any american president towards the conflict in the ME.

America dropped two nuclear bombs on the centers of two cities in Japan
with the excuse to end the war and to stop the ongoing killing of soldiers.

The president could have chosen for just ONE to make them panic and surrender
but he chose to use two.

The president could have ordered to drop these bombs say at a distances of 100 miles of those cities, to make his point but he allowed to drop them on the very centres of these cities.

You see my point here Jim?
It is the selective CHOICE that tells its story.
The choice of o chief of staff, a president.

Now have a moment to ponder about the different incidents of war that occurred later in history and you will see the same. and the same is seen in Gaza.

SO ...THAT is reason for me to believe that it doesn't matter who is president and from what party ...what i write is about human behavior. and history books that tell the stories.

[um]

And Jim

After the massacre by Hamas Israel wanted to defend itself and retaliate.

Both can be done in different ways!!!!!!

Needless to say that there are ways that demand for lesser human suffering than the world is witnessing now.

But they CHOSE the way that is unfolding now

It is that CHOICE, Jim ...in court houses they call that ..premeditated intent

[Jim Sutherland]

@um,…I worked this up for you. Listen to determine if your are a Member of the Elect, or a lost Reprobate, taken from my Master’s Degree Theses.

Others may listen of course, as well.

TULUP

https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/42dee724-1970-470d-8497-8944b09d5ca5/audio

[Jim Sutherland]

And um,…The President’s choice to do what he did, was Predestinated, not by his Free Will.

He, You, and I, always do as we were predestinated to do.

Same as your analogy of Crows are born as Crows, and never die as Eagles.

The Elect are born Elect, and die Elect.

The Reprobate is born Reprobate, and chosen by so, and dies as a Reprobate.

[um]

@ Jim S

Just listened to it to the end and did my best what it was that you tried to convey..

I cannot answer that question of yours about whether or not being a member of the elect or an reprobate for the simple reason that such an question never arose natural in my mind.

In fact many of these religious words and concepts like god, love grace, chosen elect, reprobate etc etc etc are devoid of meaning and value for me..they are empty words and concepts in the sense that they never came to fruition through experience and probably never could as there was not even a seed sown..That said I do understand in a conversation how these words are used.

You see Jim, I liked the presence of my grandmother as she was the one that looked after us. and in particular her telling stories. That is how I appreciated the interactions with the late MCS. That was all about factual experience. Grandma would tell these stories to me over and over again and it never was boring and i loved to follow the movements in her voice, the little changes as I was familiar with each and every change in the story, With that mindset I listened to MCS, . and never got bored or something like that.

Whether he was the incarnation of god, Shabd etc these are all things for theologians but not my cup of tea

So In short ...I liked his company, I loved to hear him speak about the human affairs, the advises he gave as to how to deal with the teachings in day to day life and the teachings themselves. Be assured that I am able to give a speech about these teachings ...in terms of reproducing what he said !!! ...nothing more, nothing less.
In the same way as I can reproduce the tales grandma told me. ...hahahaha

Later in life I was able to see that the many things he had addressed in his Q&A about humans had come to fruition in his own life ..whether he was god or not ..THAT .. I do not know but it is my personal understanding that he was the embodiment of a human being as discussed by him ...and in doing so set an example for others to grow as humans too

Some children do remember their parents for a simple gesture of getting an bar of chocolate

[um]

@ Jim S

And what the content of the podcast is concerned it is a more or less theological version of the tale told by the late MCS about the sheep, the dogs, the shepherd, the owner, the stable and how these elements are interrelated and interacting in and story, the narrative of Sant Mat.

And sayings like: Nobody is allowed to go that far astray that he cannot be brought back to the path ...explaining the preordained events of the life of humans

And for your pleasure:
Once I discussed the question with him about the fate of those that were not chosen.
He said that inorder to give credit to the bricks in the roof, you need bricks in the foundation. Upon asking him what was the fate of those stones ... in a particular soft voice said they have to be there, they are all part of the same house. Upon which I was freed from that "worry" for once and for all.about the eternal welfare and fate of others.

[um]

And Jim

...... and I comfort myself with the thought that Jesus did not need exegetes when he addressed the people on the mountain and that I was able to listen to the late MCS, understanding what he said ..just pointed at things and it was upon us in the audiences whether we we were willing to see what he was pointing at ..each at his or here own level of understanding, interest etc. and in doing so leaving people free ..his was just an invitation.

[Jim Sutherland]

@um,…You still have time to find your Master within. While Your still in your body, your Temple/Prison.

https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/4f634f60-697a-4384-a29e-60f4148a584c/audio

Jim Sutherland

[um]

@ Jim S.

Courtesy commands me to let you know that I have listened to the podcast you created and linked here.

You did your best my best is now to remain silent.

[Jim Sutherland]

@um,…as friendly people say,….”Sharing is caring.” But most people prefer critisizing. If you read carefully what those type of people say, with hundreds and hundreds of fancy words, is nothing helpful, or useful to any one. Why? Because with out Credentials or personal experiences of their own, ….all they have is criticism of any thing others share, which might be of Value to others then them.

Hope I haven’t wasted your time, um. Time for my 2nd Meditation, followed by Reward. COFFEE! I’ve stocked up, with various varieties of Beans, which I grind about 1/4 lb. at a time to use. I use about 10 Tablespoons a day, for my 2 12 Oz. Cups, brewed . I have about 15 lbs. in stock, as Coffee prices have been rising out of sight with inflation. I prefer 100% Single point Arabica beans, from So. America, but do buy quite a bit of European originated beans from TJMAX, a specialty Store.

I hope you get to try a cup of the expensive Coffee I suggested before you die, so you can share it it was worth the price and hype. Hope your friends come through for you.

[um]

@ Jim R.

Don't worry Jim, ..
It is MY time, ....it is my responsibility to decide to what to give it

[umami]

Jesse Welles
"Middle"
https://youtu.be/TSZsd1M71Lw?si=lXzxfRTsHrKhWlg0

[Jim Sutherland]

@um,….you correctly wrote,….” And what the content of the podcast is concerned it is a more or less theological version of the tale told by the late MCS about the sheep, the dogs, the shepherd, the owner, the stable and how these elements are interrelated and interacting in and story, the narrative of Sant Mat.
And sayings like: Nobody is allowed to go that far astray that he cannot be brought back to the path ...explaining the preordained events of the life of humans”.

YES, you got it. But notice carefully, we first have to have BEEN on the Path, …..before we can be brought BACK to the Path.

So the Elect are always brought back to Christ, and the Marked are always brought back to Sant Mat.

No amount of money can buy those Premium Eternal Life Insurance Policies!

I know I am fully covered, and will never have my Policies canceled or terminated.

1 Corinthians 2:9………” But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him”

Yes, Sant Mat 1.0 and Christian Calvinism, of which I am marked and elected by both, keeps me from straying too far away from the Path.

[Jim Sutherland]

https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/9482785b-8cf3-4cfa-98b9-577c15256f68/audio

This is a 20 minute podcast taken from a part of my Doctoral Theses on Faith Healing.

[um]

@ Jim S.

>> YES, you got it. But notice carefully, we first have to have BEEN on the Path, …..before we can be brought BACK to the Path.<<

What I wrote is what I HEARD ....

Whether what I heard was correct I do not know nor have I had the opportunity to verify it for myself to be true.

Who is on what path?

Those that are initiate are they all on the path or just those that have personal experience of conversing with the radiant form of the master?

Jim these are just rhetorical questions as i am not seeking an answer as there is no question.

[Jim Sutherland]

@um, SEEKERS , searching for The Lord, are those on the Path.

Hebrews 11:6 (NLT) “And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.”

Actually, to date, I have never talked to any one who has met The Radiant Form, inside, if such a Form exists. For 26 years of meditation, hoping I’d see Charan’s Radiant Form, ( because that is what we were taught from Sawan Singh, in Spiritual Gems ) but never seeing him, until he did appear to ME very clearly, only ONE time, he looked exactly as he did in any of the Videos of him on the Internet, only he looked about the same age and appearance as when he initiated me in 1990 before he died. But as far as ‘RADIANT’, …..he liked ‘NATURAL” to me. There was absolutely no Halo around his head, or Astral Light surrounding his head, face, or body. He looked perfectly physical, ….but I know he was not.

That very well might be an example of how The Master Jesus appeared to many of his Desciples after he died on the Crucifiction Cross. So, I don’t think any body believes Charan appeared to me, any more than those who Jesus didn’t appear to, believed those who saw him, either.

So, I don’t think any Initiate should quit the Path of seeking The Lord because Charan has never appeared to them inside.

After all, considering he initiated 1,250,000 of us, during his Ministry, and is busy pulling each chain of his sheep who left the path, I am really grateful he appeared to me that one time, when I was having bad pains in my heart, or I very well might not still be here in the body now, sharing stories and podcasts with the faithful, and the Skeptics.
😇😍

[um]

@ Jim S.

>> @um, SEEKERS , searching for The Lord, are those on the Path.

Hebrews 11:6 (NLT) “And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.”<<

Alright, than I am not on a path and never was.

[manjit]

Folks may not understand it, but imo quite honestly one of the most important or deepest "spiritual teachings" is this, and please note, explains pretty much why, according to my opinion and experience, the overwhelming majority of online folks related to RS have been such abysmal failures at achieving anything substantial with their "practices" despite allegedly following it for decades (yes, even or especially a few of those who claim to have achieved something by elevating their scant experience for the purposes of public presence :). And I've often wondered just why so many, the overwhelming majority, do fail....

....if you cannot be utterly honest with both yourself and others, you have got no chance. With radical honesty, there is always potential, paths will open up to deeper truths.

Instead, what we find most often is folks lying both to themselves and to others. Folks eager to sit at the front of class and even teach the class, when their actual knowledge barely enables them to locate where the class is, let alone entry, let alone teaching.

Hacks.

[manjit]

I get with the primary focus on this blog being Radhasoami faith that the average age is likely 60 and above.

I'm not sure if most folks have cottoned on to the critical injunction point we are at for the global narrative.

Most folks over the age of say 30 fully and unquestionably associate Jewish identity with horrendous persucution, the WW2 holocaust, antisemitism and as a deeply traumatised group victim of centuries of historic and ongoing abuse and persecution.

And this was all true, historically.

But what some may not be alive to is the very real shift in the global consciousness, especially amongst those who've actually seen the countless images and videos of incredibly horrific suffering and slaughter of thousands of babies, children, women and men for over a year. These cannot be deleted, however much Israel and their western allies in the media and politics wish it were so.

Here's a short video from the excellent shorts YouTube channel breezy politics with Jewish American psychologist Mark Braverman. He gets it, he senses the shift future generations will inevitably have to deal with:

"The Jewish story of today is not the story of our suffering in the past which gives us total innocence and the right to do what we want to . Our story of today is what we are doing to another people. Our story is of the Nakba, what the Palestinians call their holocaust.
If we do not understand this is our story, we are done for."

It takes a wise and beautiful soul to have the courage to speak like this. It is rare, even amongst so called spiritual folk who are great at talking the talk when it comes to hypotheticals, but are completely disabled and legless when it comes to walking.

Pay attention to this man, he is saying something that everyone senses but are yet too afraid to say.

[manjit]

I guess the actual link may help!

https://youtube.com/shorts/sCSTr9eF3yg?si=_RJrvLIl0eGRZYq4

[um]

@ Manjit

If there were no Christians ..there would have been an other history.

The problems in the Middle east is an christian issue ... they the Christians are the real puppet masters. even un-intentionally they are involved.

no crucifixion, no crusade and probably there would have been no Islam, no prophet

[manjit]

Dearest Um, you don't need to preach about the disastrous influence of western "Christian" values, and indeed all 3 Abrahamic faiths, to me and probably most folks here! I agree and, well, pardon the phrase but Amen to that!

The imbecile Trump only a few days ago put forward his nominee to be the UN ambassador, who believes Israel has a "Biblical right" to Palestinians land which they've been genetically proven to be linked to since before Judaism even existed (most Palestinians are genetically related to ancient Levantines going back 3-5 thousand years ago......of course, according to the Bible the physical universe didn't even exist then)

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/21/trumps-un-ambassador-pick-says-israel-has-biblical-right-to-west-bank

I think even more catastrophic for both the human race and the planet in general has been the western, white man's imagined sense of racial superiority, decency, civility etc over all other races.

Whilst there is no doubt a heavy influence of biblical monotheism via Protestantism throughout western civilisation, up to and including the current western monotheistic God of the western world to which all other Gods must bow, the great Oneness of Mindless Matter, it's worth remembering the greatest persecution of the Jewish people was by heavily secularised ideologies and societies in Europe, by racial supremacist Nazis in the worst example.

It is a very insidious, near invisible curse. You see it in the dehumanisation of Palestinians by even the so called "liberals" in Western society.

Lets take the black man in America. They were barbaric animals not worthy of dignity or consideration when they were stolen from their land and forced to work in a foreign country.
They were barbaric savages when they fought for equal rights.
They are barbaric savages who deserve to be lynched, burnt and tortured without trial, as they were done in parts of southern USA up until the SIXTIES, just 60 70 years ago.
They are still barbaric savages who make up 36% of the US prison population despite only making up 13% of the overall population - they're obviously savages for being in there, right? Right. Biden campaigned on imprisoning black folks for ONE offence of carrying even a tiny piece of crack cocaine in the 80s or 90s, Go check on youtube. Meanwhile, he's pardoning his crack cocaine smoking son, caught doing it on video with prostitutes, for any and all crimes he wished to commit. And all this in the country that has the nerve to call itself the land of the free despite having the 6th largest prison % population in the entire world.....WORLD, due to their indentured servitude of petty black and other minority criminals!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/#:~:text=Prisoners%20in%20the%20United%20States,nations%20had%20far%20fewer%20prisoners.
And they're still savages now for daring to protest about being killed on the streets by an institutionally racist police force that is supposed to protect them.

God bless America.

And go WHITE POWER!

[manjit]

We mustn't fall into the same kind of dangerous and fallacious thinking like Brian or Sam Harris's where complex, multi layered and dimensional social, linguistic, geopolitical conflicts are reduced simple mindedly to "religion is the cause".

This causes the same kind of violence religion itself does, as it obscures other aspects which may well be more fundamental; IE. Israeli illegal occupation of Palestinian land, decades of murder, slaughter, rapes and illegal kidnappings etc, and western white superiority complex where colonialism and imperialism is couched in racist terms like bringing civility, culture or democracy to savage barbarians....all 3 of which are laughably ridiculous claims btw.

We must not forget religions are merely vehicles for HUMAN EMOTIONS, FEARS, HATE etc. And they are not driverless cars.

Likewise with atheism.....we saw the results in the most secular, as well as barbaric century in human history, the 20th. And we see it in the pseudo intellectual, racist rhetoric of folks like Sam Harris too, who spends his time justifying and rationalising why we must slaughter the Muslims. Which we are doing, so good job my fellow, errrm, "mystic"? 🤔

Anyone who's read the new testament knows this.

Jesus was an ultra poor ethnic person from the middle east who was born to a single mother. He was either a homosexual or spent his time with prostitutes (shout out to the excellent Jeffrey Kripal and his brilliant Serpent's Gift book I think it's called), and spent his time preaching about not being rich and helping those more vulnerable, often from other communities like the Samaritans.

Now contrast all this with American Christians with their Trump loving, mammon hoarding, foreigner killing "Christianity".

It has nothing to do with Christ and never had.

It's merely a VEHICLE for their fears, insecurities and hatred.

[um]

@ Manjit

Words spoken and written by one,
can and do have different values and meanings for those that hear and read them.

Amen

[manjit]

Not only does the western, abrahamic faith based, white culture want to take away all the autonomy, self determination, dignity, natural resources, life and the children's lives of these brown savages, they also want to take away their religion!

Such noble souls, and so ungrateful the savages who suicide bite at the hands that feeds them!

I dare ANYONE here to watch just ONE hour of videos filmed in Gaza (not available on mainstream media, obviously, but freely elsewhere)over the past year, with burning children, missing limbs, skin, parts of their skeleton missing etc, as well as missing anaesthetics, who still praise the mercy of their God, and deny them this from an imagined place of superiority?

Just ONE hour, then come back and deny them their savage God.

I dare you.

[manjit]

Murder & Madness: A Cult Conspiracy is a feature-length documentary exposé of the criminal activity that took place in and around the Hare Krishna movement in America in the 1970s and '80s, adapted from the New York Times bestselling book.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Murder-Madness-Conspiracy-Jason-Lapeyre/dp/B0DJD48L91

Nice documentary available on Amazon Prime on some of the criminal activities in the Hare Krishna movement.

Worth watching for anyone with an interest in spiritual movements, gurus, cults, the 60s and 70s etc.

[manjit]

https://thetelepathytapes.com/

https://www.dailygrail.com/2025/02/the-telepathy-tapes-overturning-the-materialist-paradigm-or-the-re-emergence-of-an-old-controversy/

Not yet listened to, but for those with a genuine interest in psi related research and phenomena (as opposed to ideologically based assumptions grounded in a fundamental ignorance of the subject matter, which covers about 99% of that chat here, for example, by materialist ideologues), this should be interesting.

[manjit]

Um wrote: "@ Manjit

Well if you have a strong stomach, do so.
I am curious how you and others could digest it.
Understanding italian, is a great bonus ...Italians are very vocal"

https://www.effedupmovies.com/ugly-dirty-and-bad-1976/

Hey Um - thanks for the movie suggestion, I really enjoyed it! It brought back nostalgic memories of that age of movie making. I've seen quite a few European movies from the 70s which have a similar feel to this one. Actually, not just from Europe, but India, UK and US too. Guess it's the 70s vibe. A simpler time before the internet and social media, where stories had the time to breathe and be told I suppose.

To be honest though, I did not find the movie at all "effed up"?! I don't know if that says more about me than the movie though 😅

Out of curiosity, do you know who Gasper Noè is? French movie director, probably my favourite director actually. Probably not your cup of tea.

Anyway, cheers for the link, it was enjoyable!

[um]

@ Manjit.

No, I do not know his name.

Beside the Italian movies, I loved to see Japanese movies in those days for their "strange" atmosphere they would induce in me. but I was never focused much on actors or producers as a reason to see a movie,

If I ended up in a cinema or an other cultural "temple", museum, concert hall etc, it was most of the time by accident, being asked by somebody to go with them.

[manjit]

Um - I loved the atmosphere in Japanese movies too!

[manjit]

I'll try and explain it quickly.

When you have a senile, old, selfish, war mongering, genocide committing, incompetent, lying president who puts the 1% billionaires before the millions of ordinary folks, and who can't walk two steps without falling down, you get a senile old, selfish, war mongering, genocide committing, incompetent, lying president who puts the 1% billionaires before the millions of ordinary folks, but who can walk two steps without falling down, as the next president.

You're welcome for the lesson in US politics.

[October]

@manjit
i am not particularly acquainted with US politics but he is doing far better
than Democrats.
You said it right.He can walk the path.

[Appreciative Reader]

Came across an article on an interesting condition, called anendophasia. A lack of an inner voice, apparently.

Apart from said article, glanced at these two fairly informative references:
1. https://www.bps.org.uk/research-digest/silent-inner-world-anendophasia
2. https://www.psypost.org/anendophasia-scientists-examine-the-cognitive-impact-of-life-without-an-inner-voice/#google_vignette

(Would've explored this some more, except I'm completely short of time, traveling, and on phone not my computer. So, thought I'd put this here for now, a placeholder as it were, for me, and/or Brian, and/or anyone else interested, to follow up on, if we like, and when we're able to.)

My take is this isn't a Yes/No condition, more like a continuum. And my (quick and easy, and fallible) take is that I'm somewhere in between, not full-on voice-in-head, as some are apparently, nor completely absent this trait, like the documented anendophasists(?) seem to be.