Is meditation about feeling better or about knowing what's true?

I just came across a piece of paper where I'd jotted down some thoughts about meditation that could serve as the basis for a churchless blog post. 

I have no idea how long ago those thoughts came to mind. Must have been a while, since I have no recollection of doing this. No matter. I'll make use of them regardless.

My first thought was, "Is meditation like learning to play music, where you practice and get better and better, or is it openness where beliefs about how things are is let go in favor of how things actually are?"

The next thought was, "Is the goal of meditation to feel better or to know what's true about reality?"

My last thought was, "Reality can be anything permitted by reality. So, be open. Our reality is here/now."

The way I see it, someone whose goal in meditation is to feel better won't be motivated to know reality as it is, since often reality is painful, disturbing, or otherwise unpleasant. 

On the other hand, someone whose goal in meditation is to be open to however reality presents itself -- which is the essence of mindfulness -- will do their best to embrace ugliness as well as beauty, pain as well as pleasure, disappointment as well as satisfaction, failure as well as success.

And if this person enjoys truth, then knowing how things actually are rather than how they'd like things to be will give them a certain peace of mind.

I'm not saying that I am 100% that sort of person, since while I preach the benefits of mindfulness, often my actual meditation practice is aimed at feeling better about my life, rather than accepting everything that's true about my life, which encompasses some stuff that I'd prefer to be rid of. 

So I guess this isn't an either/or proposition. Most people who meditate probably are like me, seeking both greater pleasure and greater truth. 

However, it makes sense that if we restrict ourselves to being more fully aware of what appeals to us, and ignoring the dark side of both ourselves and reality as a whole, we're going to be unbalanced. 

For reality isn't only beautiful rainbows and bright sunny days. It also is scary storm clouds and dark moonless nights. That's why I believe that openness is more important for me to pursue in my meditation than feeling good, even if I have difficulty doing this. 

But if you have a different view of meditation, I'm not going to try to argue you out of it. As my Tai Chi instructor likes to say, "There's no right/wrong here, no good/bad." Just different ways of seeing things.

Comments

[Ron E.]

“Is meditation about feeling better or about knowing what's true?”

Well, I suppose it’s a very broad subject and not only open to many interpretations but also encompassing many practices.

‘Feeling better?’ I guess it is about feeling better as is the aim of the mindfulness movement of Jon Kabat-Zinn’s Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction. Reports are quite good although they are some-times criticized as being subjective and produced by supporters of the practice. Perhaps for those who just meditate to attain a little peace or calmness, it may help – and that’s fine, which is perhaps needed in a hectic and stressful life.

But, “Knowing what's true?” Don’t know how that one works in meditation. What’s true for one person may not be true for another. Truth is said to be very subjective and anyway, it is always changing – even (especially) in science. Can we know what is true, what truth is? We (our brains) are masters at manipulating how we experience our environment – and ourselves. Personally, I’ve no idea what truth is or really what truth means. It seems to be the sort of question that only a searching, in-secure mind is chasing.

I like (cynically) the idea that meditation is about destroying the self, as if such a thing is possible. Same with thinking. Maybe to notice how the self dominated thought processes override and obscure the reality of what is appearing from moment to moment is about as near to truth as one can get – but I wouldn’t say it makes one feel better.

Below are some of my notes from years ago on the subject of meditation: -

Seeing that meditation arises as a natural consequence of awareness.
Seeing how the mind is composed of information.
Seeing how information continually creates and sustains a ‘self’.
Seeing how identifying with a ‘self’ creates a ‘me’ with a seemingly fixed identity.
Seeing how attachment to identity arises.
Seeing how attachment to identity creates suffering and conflict.
Seeing that whatever explanations proceed from the mind is partial and ever changing.
Seeing that life is constant change, everything is continuous movement.

[sant64]

The latest book I read on meditation was "Master Dogen's Zazen Meditation Handbook: A Translation of Eihei Dogen's Bendowa: A Discourse on the Practice of Zazen."

Dogen's basic view is that Zazen is the primal Buddhist practice, or if you like, Zazen is the primal religious, or if you like, primal human practice. Zazen is the most simple and comprehensive way to integrate oneself with what is.

What's striking to me is how militant Dogen is about Zazen vs. other Buddhist schools. As militant as Nichiren was about the supremacy of chanting homage to a part of the Lotus Sutra.

And so there's Dogen's view of practice, and then there's Nichren's view which is at total odds with Dogens. But the discord hardly stops there. There have been thousands of iterations of Buddhist meditation, all of which claim to be the original or most effective way.

On top of this, there's a gazillion more meditation techniques from sects outside of Buddhism. In some way or other they are all at odds with each other.

What to conclude from that? Only one thing: there's only one true meditation technique and all the rest are false. Just kidding!

I'd suggest instead that meditation techniques are not really ways to "know" ourselves. But they are all relatively effective in producing what we judge to be positive mental effects.

But there's no such thing as a way to actually know ourselves, become one with the universe, totally eradicate the ego, or any of the other typical goals of spiritual practice. I mean, most of here have met a lot of spiritual practitioners. I know I have, from long time Sant matters to veteran Buddhist monks. I've met many who are good people, but never met any of whom I was confident they truly "knew" themselves in some remarkably transcendent way.

Because of that unsurpassable limitation of what meditation can do, I feel TM is just as valid a meditation technique as zazen or vipassana or Sant Mat bhajan. Definitely useful, but not more so than a toothbrush.

[Chiro]

"But if you have a different view of meditation, I'm not going to try to argue you out of it." So here is my 2cents:

The purpose of meditation is similar to the training of an athlete. In the first stages it has zero to do with gaining anything within, and that includes feelings of peace, tranquillity, enjoyment, getting rid of stress, attaining some mental balance, and certainly not about seeing, hearing or experiencing any form of bliss or visions.

An athlete does not go to the track expecting to come home with a medal. The athlete rises early in the morning and practices, practices, practices. The young musician-to-be buys a guitar. At first the sounds he makes seem wonderful, but soon he realises they are nothing to what can be struck with more deftly trained fingers when some perfection and stability is gained.

The 100% purpose of meditation to begin with is like the athlete, like the musicians hands, like the calluses from the sharp metal strings on the skin of his fingers, is to develop the muscles that hold the attention between and behind the two eyes. Also, to gain the faculty to repeat the mantra with the mind and do so clearly while holding the attention on any light before it. There is almost zero value in any of the light observed by the meditator beyond being a focus to continue to gaze at it. It is the gaze and not any observed phenomena that is important. The boring and simple fact is that the meditator has to perform the function of holding the attention between and behind the two eyes while clearly repeating the mantra perhaps for years or decades in readiness for the door of the Til, way, way above the Agny Chakra to open.

A paraglider when he first buys his kit will actually practice, fully kitted up, at home in his sittingroom or back garden for hours at a time before he actually jumps off a cliff for his first flight. Ditto a pilot will spend many, many hours in a flight simulator. Except that in meditation the real thing is not in your hands and you are just sitting there waiting for the day when some higher power knows you are ready to receive it.

If you are enjoying your meditation you are either wasting your energy or genuinely being connected to that higher power ora gaining concentration. When the athlete goes to train he may spend two hours, but it is that five minutes when he is reaching his best speed on the track, or the weight lifter lifting his heaviest weight, of the guitarist getting that difficult Led Zeppelin riff just right, that real training you can take to the bank is occurring. It is that precious five minutes when you gain enough inner strength to stop thinking about Trump and really get icy clear concentration that is real training.

Dire Strait's Mark Knopfler of 'Brothers in Arms' and 'MTV' fame was kvetching to a journalist who asked him "How does it feel to have chicks for free?" Knofler angrily replied he had spent decades playing guitar and no one took any notice of him until he reached the perfection needed to get as it were his Shabd, and that Shabd was 'Sultans of Swing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ffIJ7ZO4U

But that’s all you get for most musicians, unless like Dylan you can keep knocking them out of the park for years on end. Of course Love can take you to your goal very fast, but only if your Guru is God realised and you are realised enough to perceive that in Him and you get the extra gift of love for Him. Otherwise it’s a long slog until the crystal light or Shabd that ultimately comes through meditation arrives, and then it just gets better and better and better without end.

"Sant Mat is not tea at auntie's." goes the saying. It's not being stoned by a waterfall on a sunny day, it's hard. Greatness comes in pushing yourself to do what you hate doing...for a long time!

[Appreciative Reader]

Enjoyed reading the main post, and both of the informative comments, above.

I myself think --- agreeing with sant64 on this --- that meditation's kind of like working out, or fitness. There's so many types of it, and each of it is actually valid given the diverse kinds there are to cater to diverse needs, that it is probably fallacious to suggest that *this* is what meditation "truly" is. It's probably an amalgam of many different things.

Not sure what sant64 means by suggesting that mediation is no more useful than a toothbrush. I mean, it makes for a good witticism, sure; but what, if anything, does that actually mean? (I'm using the third person, because he's got this weird trolling thing going, where he excretes out his comments and then beats it. Particularly whenever what he's said is shown to be completely fallacious. Given that this time his comment is actually being appreciated, rather than refuted, given that, if he comes back and clarifies what he meant, then that would be cool. Happy to engage with him directly if he were to do that.)

[um]

Quote related to the teachings of Hon. Dogen:

>> Therefore, put aside the intellectual practice of investigating words and chasing phrases, and learn to take the backward step that turns the light and shines it inward. Body and mind of themselves will drop away, and your original face will manifest. If you want to realize such, get to work on such right now. …<<

[Appreciative Reader]

Hahaha, um, here's the key to unlock your mind: Like when you operate a locker in a bank, there's not just the one key, but two keys. One key is inside the house, and the other key's outside the house. That makes for a brief, pithy slogan, easy to remember: "Two keys, not one."

Every time you find yourself thinking about keys, you can say that yourself: There's not just one key, there's two keys.

Thus spake AR the tree, that's actually a new species of tree called the painter tree, and that produces not fruit but, wonder of wonders, paintings of fruit! (Heh, kidding!)

[um]

Honorable Dogen continues:

You must know,
that the true dharma appears of itself,
so
that from the start dullness and distraction are struck aside.

[Appreciative Reader]

Two keys, um. Not one, but two.

You can't open the door with one key. The door will remain shut.

Two keys, not one.

Thus spake Master AR, the painter tree.

[um]

The crow is born crow
The crow lives his life as crow
The crow dies as crow

No crow drinks coffee.

[Chiro]

Extract of the teaching of Tulsi Saheb:

"All this truth is fully explained by Sants who enable the Jiva to constantly apply his mind to the Third Til. (59) The Jiva who becomes humble and meek penetrates and finds abode in Sahas-dal-kanwal. Beyond, there is a white city which is the gateway to Sat Lok. That is Sunn, and Surat ascends to and merges in it. (60) On listening to the Shabd of the surging lake, viz., Man-sarovar, the Jiva attains the status of Atma, and the region on the West, i. e., Sunn, becomes visible to him. On opening the window, he gets Darshan of the Silent and Indescribable Being. All this is revealed to the Jiva by Sant. (61) After seeing the lake, i. e., Man-sarovar, Surat advances and ascends to the gateway at the top of Sunn, and thus attains the region of Par-Brahm. I exhort you to see this with your own eyes. (62) Surat strolls there and witnesses many a playful activity. Seeing innumerable fathomless spheres in the sky, the Surat penetrates into them, proceeding like an ant.

Beyond this, there is a unique region. On ascending and getting beyond, the Jiva is enabled to recognize it with his own eyes. After the Jiva has listened to the Shabds of the regions of the Atma and Parmatma, Sant enables him to see further beyond. (66) These two regions are on this side and on the other side is Sat Lok which one reaches after piercing three barriers. It is only when Surat contacts the Shabd of the highest and the most exalted region of Sat Purush that it attains its true abode. (67) The region which lies beyond is armw A-Nam, i. e.. Nameless, and unique, and no star or sun or moon or earth or sky is to be found there. O Friend ! My Guru has shown me the inaccessible and original abode. He has enabled me to understand the true faith, and perceive Surat and Anhad Shabd. I have had Darshan of the Beloved and have recognized His abode.

All this could not be achieved without the mercy and help of Sant. (1) Shabd resounds in the region of Sunn. Catch hold of it, recognize the easy path, and train yourself to this end. (2) Recognize the goal which knows no form and delineation, and yet each pore of that Being has the refulgence of a crore of suns. (3) Says Tulsi that he is the dust of the holy feet of Sat Guru. By His mercy and grace, he has been able to see the highest and the eternal abode."

Internet Archiv: https://archive.org/details/param_sant_tulsi_saheb/mode/2up

[Appreciative Reader]

Coffee beans is coffee
Coffee powder is coffee
Coffee black is coffee
Coffee with milk and sugar is coffee

If crow drink coffee, crow eyes pop out

Coffee not eat crow

(Haha, this is fun! ...If you're in the mood for it, which I am now, seemingly!)

Cheers, old friend

Glad you haven't taken my last few comments amiss

[Brian Hines]

Ron, I liked your pithy meditation notes. They fit with how I basically see meditation also. I agree with you that the sort of truth I was talking about, which is different from scientific truth, is inherently subjective and personal. It's "My" truth not "Our" truth.

Yet seeing as clearly as possible how my mind works, that's truth to me. That's seeing reality more clearly. Again, not someone else's reality. My reality, which is the only reality I can know experientially.

Yes, we're after feeling better as a result of meditation. But for me, that fits pretty well with seeing things in my life more clearly. Blurry vision is annoying either physically or mentally. Even when I don't like something in my life, if I can see it how it is in this present moment, rather than wishing it were other than it is, I usually feel a pleasing sense of "OK, this is what I've got to deal with."

Part of what I was thinking about when I wrote this post was how some meditation systems treat the mind, and thoughts/emotions generated by the mind, as something to be negated, as if it were possible to exist in a blissful thought and emotion free state where everything is pleasant and nothing bothers us. Well, I'm skeptical that this is possible for any but brief moments. I'm also skeptical that this is desirable, as it seems to make a meditator overly rigid and wary of their own mind, which is crazy.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"Is meditation about feeling better or about knowing what's true?"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/meditation

Above is the best definitions on meditation I could fine on the web.

According to Brian's old notes, I think you were on to something no one has yet brought up.
Perhaps you WERE making progress in the RSSB mode of meditation. As your notes sound as if you needed to remember something important to further your simran and bhajan.

Of course, only you could know for sure. But you say your memory of the notes is a bit foggy. So what to do with that? From what I've learned Sant Mat [RSSB version], tells us that in olden times one could meditate on pranas or the vital breaths and ultimately attain Nirvana. But as times change, the various meditation methods loose value. Sufism, Gnostics, Buddhists, Shaivism, etc. Not that any are dull, just as the human lifespan and earths atmosphere gets more polluted. The prana method would needs close to 100 years to complete is no longer practical.

So what next?

RSSB philosophy teaches one, that all methods are good. And all masters are One in the sense that the aim was the same. Ultimately Nirvana, Sublime Truth, or Regions of Jannah ..or what so have you.

But the Creator or in ancient times the called him Aten. Made sure that His method would be preserved by not writing down certain aspects of the meditation on Him.

Thus, in today's age we find many different practitioners of various modes of meditation. Producing various benefits, such as health, sobriety, empathy, better morals, and sometimes miraculous feats of strength. But RSSB doesn't prescribe the prana methods, no they have a method called "the simple way." So that one may not need more than 1 lifetime to complete it. And reap all the rewards mentioned in the various RSSB book on it's philosophy.

Cheers!

[sant64]

"Not sure what sant64 means by suggesting that mediation is no more useful than a toothbrush."

That does deserve explication, as I didn't mean I feel meditation doesn't have value. Rather, I meant that as a toothbrush is a vital tool for maintaining dental health, meditation is likewise vital for mental, emotional, and even our physical health. But just as it's impossible to brush one's teeth to perfection, meditation doesn't produce psychic or spiritual perfection. Like a toothbrush, meditation is a modality or tool for fostering, to use a broad term, health. But the effects of that tool are, like everything else, relative and impermanent.

Many of us, myself included, believe meditation would someday reveal a pristine and permanent state of pure self. Sach Khand or Satori. Full enlightenment. Probably won't ever happen, but for many reasons the "brushing" of meditation is still worthwhile.

[Appreciative Reader]

“…as a toothbrush is a vital tool for maintaining dental health, meditation is likewise vital for mental, emotional, and even our physical health. But just as it's impossible to brush one's teeth to perfection, meditation doesn't produce psychic or spiritual perfection. Like a toothbrush, meditation is a modality or tool for fostering, to use a broad term, health. (…)

(…)Many of us, myself included, believe meditation would someday reveal a pristine and permanent state of pure self. Sach Khand or Satori. Full enlightenment. Probably won't ever happen, but for many reasons the "brushing" of meditation is still worthwhile.”

-----

Enjoyed reading your “explication” of the toothbrush, sant64, thank you. I agree: both in terms of the sense it conveys, in absolute terms; as well as in terms of how your analogy does convey that sense, wittily and pithily.

…Incidentally: It would appear that your current beliefs are, then, different than what you’ve gotten used to imagining they are. I mean, your current opinion that meditation’s no more transcendent or facilitating of perfection than a toothbrush, would seem to be at odds with your avowed belief --- a belief you seem to have outgrown now, even though you seem not to have noticed that --- that “meditation would someday reveal a pristine and permanent state of pure self”, no?

Heh, you must be more careful of the company you keep! It seems the spirit of this place has starting seeping through to you after all, and has started tainting your past beliefs! Careful, now, lest you end up finding yourself laughing at the rest of your woo beliefs as well, and maybe even, horrors, voting differently next time around!

…Kidding aside, I do get exactly what you mean. And I guess I’m myself where you’re at on this. I too spend a good amount of time and effort meditating. These days I do it primarily because I enjoy it and it centers me, and because I believe it is good for my mental and physical health; but there’s also vestiges of my past expectations of transcendence still lingering. Which last I own, unapologetically, given that it’s not something I believe per se, but merely keep an eye out for: which openness and, very loosely speaking, “research”, I don’t think is any way at odds with a reasonable, sane, rational and scientific worldview.

[Appreciative Reader]

“Blurry vision is annoying either physically or mentally.”

Loved reading this comment of yours addressed to Ron, Brian --- of which I’ve only quoted a small portion. Your overall comment ties in perfectly with your main post, to make one very interesting incidental point: that the imperative towards unvarnished truth (or as unvarnished as we are able to get to) isn’t necessarily a universal one. Those of us who are so constituted as to necessarily strive to understand truth, and to see reality for what it is as best we possibly can, might believe that everyone else also is so constituted. But, when you think about it, that’s not necessarily the case at all! So much of what we see around us, of what people believe, and what they base their overall view of themselves and the world on, can be very easily explained if only we consider that not everyone might share this drive towards truth. ...Cool insight, that, food for thought.

[Ronin47]

Thurssday Radha Soami Baba Gurinder Singh announced new change comes into effect immediately and will take over in the role. Purpose of appointment is to carry on mission for uplift of souls.

https://tinyurl.com/bdz8euj2

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

@Ronin47,

Just imagine.

Not all Gurus have announced clearly their successor. For that is Their business alone.

And what if they don't announce one? The sacred method as taught by a Master who is not a novice disappears from the Earth.

All the understanding of the scriptures and memorized mechanics of how the Path is to be walked totally vanishes.

And mankind is force to learn from old holy books with pages missing. Or raj yogis who may possess excellence in chi or pranayama, but still can lead no one beyond the Great Sunn.

This leaves a world with no knowledge of the true Teacher, the Sat Guru. With only concepts, stigmas, and superstition.