Jasdeep Singh Gill, successor to RSSB guru, has disturbing tie to Ranbaxy

The gurus of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) are supposed to demonstrate exceptionally high spiritual virtues, including honesty. After all, the RSSB teachings proclaim that their gurus are God in Human Form.

So a few days ago, when I saw on the RSSB web site that Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the organization's current guru, had appointed a successor, Jasdeep Singh Gill, I was surprised to see that Gill had worked at Ranbaxy from 2006 to 2010.

Ranbaxy (2006 – 2010): Multiple roles
Worked across Project management and Strategy functions

Surprised, because Ranbaxy was accused of pharmaceutical fraud following sale of the company to Daiichi Sankyo in 2008, following which the fraud allegations came to light.

In 2013 the U.S. Department of Justice announced that Ranbaxy had agreed to plead guilty to several felonies. 

In the largest drug safety settlement to date with a generic drug manufacturer, Ranbaxy USA Inc., a subsidiary of Indian generic pharmaceutical manufacturer Ranbaxy Laboratories Limited, pleaded guilty today to felony charges relating to the manufacture and distribution of certain adulterated drugs made at two of Ranbaxy’s manufacturing facilities in India, the Justice Department announced today. Ranbaxy also agreed to pay a criminal fine and forfeiture totaling $150 million and to settle civil claims under the False Claims Act and related State laws for $350 million.

And when did the illegal manufacture and distribution of adulterated drugs take place at the two Ranbaxy manufacturing facilities in India? At the same time (2006-10) Jasdeep Gill was serving as Executive Assistant to the CEO of Ranbaxy, Malvinder Singh. That's an important position. We have to assume that Malvinder was the one who hired Jasdeep.

The Department of Justice announcement says:

Ranbaxy USA admitted to introducing into interstate commerce certain batches of adulterated drugs that were produced at Paonta Sahib in 2005 and 2006, including Sotret, gabapentin, and ciprofloxacin... Ranbaxy also acknowledged that the FDA’s 2006 and 2008 inspections of the Dewas facility found the same issues with incomplete testing records and an inadequate stability program, as well as significant cGMP deviations in the manufacture of certain active pharmaceutical ingredients and finished products.  

There's more, so bear with me on what admittedly is fairly complex corporate malfeasance. I've shared additional detail in previous blog posts for those who really want to learn about the Ranbaxy-related scandals.

First, Gurinder Singh, the current RSSB guru, reportedly was highly involved in Ranbaxy dealings. In 2016 a Singapore tribunal awarded Daiichi Sankyo about $500 million in damages because Ranbaxy hadn't divulged its pharmaceutical quality problems in the course of the sale to Daiichi Sankyo.

Then, according to the preceding link, "In 2018, Daiichi Sankyo approached the Indian Supreme Court with the allegation that the Singh brothers were diverting funds using a number of shell companies to avoid the payments."

Now Gurinder Singh enters the picture again. Because Malvinder Singh accused the RSSB guru in a criminal lawsuit of being a recipient of that massive money diversion via shell companies. Religare and Fortis were companies once owned by Malvinder and Shivinder Singh into which they pumped much of the $2 billion received from the sale of Ranbaxy.

In 2019, the Serious Fraud Investigation Office, or SFIO, was also probing their [Singh brothers] role in an alleged fund diversion at Fortis Healthcare. After its initial probe, the SFIO had said that it believed that the fraud could be to the tune of Rs 2,000 crore. The Securities and Exchange Board of India and the SFIO suspected that the Singh brothers had diverted public money from Fortis Healthcare to Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the head of Radha Soami Satsang Beas and other religious bodies.

In 2019 Gurinder Singh, his family, and close associates were ordered by the High Court of Delhi to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to RHC Holding so the money that was siphoned off into their pockets could be used to pay what Malvinder and Shivinder Singh owed Daiichi Sankyo. 

NEW DELHI: Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the spiritual head of the Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), his family members and associates are among 55 individuals and entities ordered by a court to pay over Rs 6,000 crore owed to RHC Holding in connection with the settlement of a dispute related to Daiichi Sankyo’s acquisition of Ranbaxy Laboratories.

The Delhi high court ordered Dhillonʼs wife Shabnam, sons Gurkirat and Gurpreet and daughter-in-law Nayan Tara, among others, to pay up the amount due to RHC Holding, the flagship holding company of the Singh brothers who formerly owned Ranbaxy. Money will also be recovered from former Religare Enterprises chief Sunil Godhwani and his brother Sanjay Godhwani. The non-banking financial services conglomerate was formerly promoted by Malvinder and Shivinder Singh.

So Jasdeep Singh was part of the financial scandals that started with the illegal actions by Ranbaxy regarding dangerously adulterated pharmaceuticals at a time when Gurinder Singh's nephew, Malvinder Singh, was CEO of Ranbaxy and Jasdeep Singh was an executive assistant to Malvinder.

In my post, "'Dirty money' tied to RSSB guru's Ranbaxy wealth," I quoted from a Wikipedia article about Malvinder Singh and Ranbaxy.

Malvinder Singh's tenure as CEO of Ranbaxy starting in 2006 is controversial. Corporate culture of fraud continued unchecked under his tenure.

Jasdeep Singh, the guru-in-waiting of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, the hand-chosen successor to Gurinder Singh, became the executive assistant to Malvinder Singh in 2006. It's difficult to imagine that someone so close to the Ranbaxy CEO, who almost certainly was hired by Malvinder, wasn't aware of that "corporate culture of fraud" during the four years he worked at Ranbaxy.

Jasdeep Singh Gill should be questioned about this by the Indian financial press. He's a distant cousin of Gurinder Singh Dhillon. Malvinder Singh also is related to Gurinder Singh, a nephew I believe, though genealogy isn't my strong suit. Here's a Family Tree that someone sent to me today. The Gill and Dhillon families are linked.

Given how closely Gurinder Singh was involved with Ranbaxy and the Singh brothers at the time, it seems entirely possible that the RSSB guru had a say in the hiring of Jasdeep by Malvinder. You know, keep everything in the family. 

Now Gurinder has chosen Jasdeep as his successor, also keeping the RSSB guru'dom in the family. It's unsure why this happened now. RSSB says that the guru's health is fine. If that's true, then it's possible that the guru's legal problems played a role in his decision to step aside from managing the large RSSB financial and real estate holdings, handing that over to Jasdeep as of a few days ago.

I give credit for stimulating this post to a Church of the Churchless reader who emailed me with thoughts about Jasdeep Singh Gill's connection with Ranbaxy. This person had read Bottle of Lies, a book about the fraud in the generic drug industry. An excerpt from the book about Ranbaxy was shared with me:

At the behest of managers, the scientists substituted lower-purity ingredients for higher ones to reduce costs. They altered test parameters so that formulations with higher impurities could be approved. They faked dissolution studies. 

 

For some markets, the company fraudulently mixed and matched data streams, taking the best data from manufacturing in one market and presenting it to regulators elsewhere as data unique to the drugs in their markets. For other markets, the company simply invented data. Document forgery was pervasive.

 

The company even forged its own standard operating procedures, which FDA investigators rely on to assess whether a company is following its own policies.

 

In one instance, employees backdated documents and then artificially aged them in a steamy room overnight in an attempt to fool regulators during inspections.

 

There was little effort to conceal this method of doing business. It was common knowledge,  from senior managers and heads of research and development  to people responsible for formulation and the clinical people. Essentially, Ranbaxy's manufacturing standards boiled down to whatever the company could get away with.'

This person commented:

What am trying to get at is that if it was common knowledge all this was taking place, plus the using of brand name drugs crushed up and made into capsules to be tested plus superimposing brand-name test results onto their own applications, unless everyone was briefed to change tactics, there is no way Gill couldn't have known.

Here's more of what this person wrote to me. The quote at the beginning is from an unnamed source. It seems accurate.

Malvinder and Shivinder Singh were running Ranbaxy until 2008 when they sold their stake.

 

"11 June 2008, Malvinder Singh stunned the Indian business world by announcing that he and his brother were selling their 33.5% stake in Ranbaxy to the Japanese drugmaker Daiichi Sankyo for $2 billion."

 

'Stunned' the business world because Ranbaxy was at its peak. Malvinder and Shivinder were arrested in October 2019.

 

So Gill was there during the rampant fraud going on and Ranbaxy had Malvinder as CEO. Gill must have been aware something was wrong?

 

Thakur, the main whistleblower knew there was something seriously wrong in 2003. Thakur encountered chaos. Disputes at executive meetings sometimes escalated into fistfights. He said, "There was no structure. It was the complete antithesis of everything I had learned for ten or twelve years."

 

Everyone tried to block every single attempt he introduced to sort the mess out. His boss who had employed him resigned because of the rampant corruption. He told Thakur he knew enough to bring the company down.

 

I have to condense this. Brian.

 

His next boss had the same problem. He discovered there was astonishing fraud going on. Astonishing is the right word! Ranbaxy was lying about everything. The drugs destined for terribly sick AIDS patients had not even been tested.

 

When Thakur's boss 2 told the corporate office the drugs must be immediately withdrawn, they refused. Thakur's boss responded by telling them he was a physician and no way was he going to sign off something he knew full well was going to cause harm to patients. Either they pull the stuff off the market or he was resigning. 

 

Anyway, Ranbaxy was faking its dossiers to the FDA, Europe and India. At behest of the managers of Ranbaxy, (Malvinder and Shivinder) scientists substituted lower purity ingredients for higher ones to reduce cost. They faked everything. To generate normal results, they crushed up brand name drugs into capsules so that they could be tested instead of Ranbaxy's own drugs. They then used the brand-name results as their own.

 

It goes on an on. In markets including Brazil, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, Egypt, Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Peru, and Dominican Republic, Ranbaxy simply invented all the data. Thakur's boss 2 resigned when they refused to withdraw the crap drugs and stop selling them to all these countries.

 

Then they got rid of Thakur because they knew he knew too much. After they combed his computer for incriminating evidence against Ranbaxy they hacked his servers and planted his IP address on porn sites.

 

Thakur was furious and handed in his resignation providing the evidence of computer tampering. Thakur then decided to contact the FDA and present his evidence....long story.....

 

Will leave it there, Brian because it's a long, convoluted saga but just to give you a preliminary background sketch.

 

I can't believe Gill was not aware of what was going on. He was there when Malvinder and Shivinder were at the helm for four whole years until they sold their stake to the Japanese company when they were being asked to present legal data to UNICEF which they couldn't do. Neither could they supply data to the FDA.....am being vèry brief. 

 

And who got Gill the job? More nepotism? Gill is Babaji's [Gurinder Singh's] mother's sister's grandson. They are related. Yikes!

Comments

[smanwani]

This is a family of crooks. I am surprised that with RSSB’s PR problems in recent years, GSD chose someone who worked at Ranbaxy, and am further surprised that they mention Jasdeep’s tenure at Ranbaxy in the official announcement on the website. This is only going to hurt RSSB’s image further.

This should be covered by the Indian media, but I think reporters are afraid to write about this stuff because of GSD’s ties to senior government officials and the history of death threats from GSD’s lawyers.

[um]

WHY .... why did the medical world in the USA and Europe have their medicines tested and produced in an developing country?

[Omniscient]

$UM$
Coz india provides cheap labour.

[Colin W]

Does anyone have a full family tree from Sawan Singh onwards? One feels it may read like a who’s who of Punjabi high society. I’m sure one granddaughter of Charan is head of Sotheby’s in india and is married to Majithia, the controversial politician.

[um]

@ Omniscient

Hahaha ..it it was only cheap labor.
Those that have their hand in testing, producing, selling medicines in the USA and Europe know quite well that the standards and the maintenance of these standards are at an other level than in their own countries ...In most cases THEY developed the medicines in the first place only to have thgem tested and produced elsewhere.

What do you think of administring "free" medicines for testing? Do you think the way that it is done in Asian countries, the "possibilities" there, are allowed, available in the USA and EUROPE

In short ..without those that are in for "cheap" solutions etc, there would not be any snake-oil-sellers

In the usa and Europe they are quite well able to produce high quality products without poluting the environment, poisoning people etc etc but THEY have chosen not to do so.

So in my book what is discussed here, the ranbaxy affair and the related mis-handeling of finances is just an part of an chain of affairs.

[um]

@ Omniscient

Just think for a moment at the Tabasco industry.
Do you think they had no idea of the health hazards?

Do you think that the sellers in the USA and Europe have no idea about the way how their products are produced etc ..their cars, their sugar, their coffee, their clothes their almost everything?

If the pressure of the public becomes to great in their own countries they just replace the facilities ti asia and africa.

The hypocrisy with which they now approach these producers is unbelievable to be true.

[Appreciative Reader]

Whoops, this changes everything. I mean, changes everything from the (generalized, tentative, provisional) opinion I’d presented last time. Opinion about the new guy’s honesty. I mean, that generalization was valid, absent specific evidence of malfeasance. First, because it is good to think well of everyone, pending evidence to the contrary. And second, because in general it is true, someone with rock solid degrees like that can easily earn good money honestly, so that one might expect them not to need to try to amass wealth dishonestly. So yeah, I think my generalization was valid; but this, like I said, changes everything.

This post of yours was an eye-opener, Brian, as were the murky details shared by your correspondent from that book they’ve presented excerpts from. First, either I was not aware of the full depths of depravity plumbed by Ranbaxy; else I’d read about it and forgotten about the details of it. This level of sheer depravity, sheer evil --- because this is not just some tax-dodge dishonesty, or the usual corporate shenanigans, which in itself would be bad enough, but deliberate cool-headed and protracted peddling of bad medication, that might have actually cost lives, for the sake of earning money. That’s …horrible, evil.

Also, while the accounts of fisticuffs at Board meetings, that too not just one-off but every once in a while, while at one level it was completely hilarious, but in fact it is indicative of a corporate culture that is toxic well beyond the garden variety toxicity one often associates with corporate life.

And finally, the new guru, he was Executive Assistant to the CEO during those days. And that is a very senior position, not some secretary level thing --- well, duh, naturally, given he’s this IIT-MIT-Cambridge engineer. It varies from organization to organization, and I don’t know how it is in Ranbaxy specifically, but EA to CEO can often be a Director level position, although the designation of EA sounds kind of humble. In any case, someone in that position is without doubt privy to most all of what transpires at the highest level in the organization, and often is directly responsible for providing advice and executive direction that actually shapes some/many of those policies at the highest level.

So that, without question, this Whatsis, this new guru, he’s guilty. Guilty not just of the usual corporate dishonesty that often is part of corporate life --- often but by no means always, it is perfectly possible to be very successful in corporate life while also being scrupulously honest, particularly if your creds are top notch, I can vouch for that, but clearly with the new guru that was not the case, back when he was at Ranbaxy --- but of the worst kind of shenanigans around the quality of their drugs that endangered people’s lives, maybe actually caused deaths.

-----

Big boo. For what that is worth, I take back my tentative opinion, that I’d shared in the other threads, of the man’s honesty. This man is dishonest as hell, his hifalutin degrees notwithstanding.

-----

(And nor is he the first true blue professional to go rogue. That other Indian comes to mind, he was Indian too, the head of McKinsey Rajat Gupta, he too had an impeccable education, and like I said ended up head of McKinsey, but yet was convicted of fraud and had to pay a big fine and actually did time in jail. And even that was kid stuff, compared to peddling dicey medicine that kills people).

(Just to be clear, I’m not singling out high-performing Indians as corrupt. Dishonesty is race agnostic, and all kinds of folks are dishonest, be they white or black or brown or yellow or green. Just, this other guy came to mind, since he too was a very high-profile Indian specifically in the corporate sector, with the best degrees, and who’d made good in a very competitive field, and was in a position where he could and probably did make very good money completely honesty; and yet turned out to be dishonest.)

[Disappointed]

I was a satsangi for the first 30 years of my life. I was initiated, did seva, went to satsang, was fully immersed in the path and truly loved baba ji. This scandal completely broke my trust. I don't know how anyone can stay devoted anymore. The path is fully a scam and extremely predatory.

[sant64]

Such nonsense.

Many years ago, probably when he was right out of college, Gill was an executive assistant (a secretary) to the CEO of Ranbaxy. This is enough for the author to accuse him of being the mastermind behind all that corporation's troubles.

Dear reader, always double-check whatever this guy writes. One way to do this is by seeing if any news outlets have posted pieces that agree with his accusations. Do that and you'll come up empty, and rightly conclude this blog is nothing more than a repository of crank incriminations that are reliably unfactual.

[Brian Hines]

sant64, Gill was 29 with a Ph.D. from Cambridge in Chemical Engineering when he became the Executive Assistant to the CEO of Ranbaxy. By no means is that a "secretary" job. Just goes to show that people shouldn't believe your comments, because you're biased by your commitment to fantasy rather than reality. Me, I prefer truth.

[Chiro]

@Disappointed
Look at the lives of saints how they spend decades searching for a true Guru amid terrible conditions, travelling thousands of miles with tired feet and broken backs, questioning every sadhu on the way, suffering poverty and hunger. One dissapointment following another. The true seeker will never rest until he finds a true Guru. As Maharaj Charan Singh used to say "Why curse the darkness, why not light the candle?" Don't lose time, this human birth is short. A perfect Shabd master is there, just try to seek Him. Personally I would recommend you check out Tarn Taran, but failing that do not give up.

[Baba Land Grab]

Distant relative is not from far distance . Jasdeep Singh Gill is the son of Gurinder Singh dhillon,s sister , this sister was mentioned by Daichi Sankyo ( buyers of Ranbaxy ) in the Ranbaxy money trail .

[Disappointed]

@chiro

I would rather spend my time with my family and friends than chasing after fake gurus. All they want is your money and free labour. Many of the satsangis who go to seva are there for personal gain, having access to a sangat of thousands helps their small businesses grow. If you're ignorant of the immense amounts of wealth being generated in the background by the society, baba ji and individual santsangis then you are purposefully burying your head in the sand.

[Disappointed]

@chiro

Why would I waste time chasing after fake gurus when I can spend time with my family and friends?

I am fine as I am

[777]

When Pilatus asked
Jesus score was very low too

Lucky are those who have the 5 telephone numbers
They can see for themselves

777

btw on x
Now around 20 times
requested Musk to drop the fucking groping fracking mafia
If not . . . will lose it all

So Not sure my 432Hz Videos will be there tomorrow
Perhaps you can see the

[Raju]

I watched an interview online of Jasdeep. He doesn’t seem like a warm person and lacks charisma. I don’t think RSSB will get any better with this leadership change.

[um]

After reading comments in this thread and other ones, a rather strange thought appeared in my mind.

If people go to a gym nobody will expect that the fitness devices will do the work form and make them fit, nor the instructor, nor anything or anybody else.
They all know that if they want to be fit they have to ...INVEST

Spiritual practices are kind of mental fitness schools.

What you get is what you invest.

P.S.
That thought is in contrast with how the teachings, the narrative present these practices. In these narratives a person is brought to the "gym", what he can and does in vest is not in his hands, nor the outcome or anything else. ...he is just an puppet played by a puppeteer

But seen trough the eyes from the one that is dragged to the "gym" the situation seems to be as I wrote..

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

I'm must concur with what 777 wrote in an earlier thread:

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2024/09/lets-make-sense-of-the-strange-rssb-guru-succession-episode.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e202c8d3bb3f9d200c#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e202c8d3bb3f9d200c

Congrats to Hazur Jasdeep Singh Ji Gill! If you ever happen to read this comment, sir you are now the new beacon of light to guide souls beyond 2024!

radha soami

[Disappointed]

@um

Only issue is the path is akin to a psychiatric hospital where the nurses and doctors pretend to treat you but are actually making your condition worse. The hospital lead is more interested in making money than treating anyone. The patients think they're happy because they're on drugs

[um]

@ Disappointed

That too, is a way of attributing meaning and value to the same facts.

From the time I was associated with this path, I remember just those things I was involved, the thoughts and feelings that were generate by me.

I had good companions with whom to work together for years. Through them whole worlds were opened for me as they were all from all sorts of walks of live.. It was not only fun but I came to learn and understand so many things from him and myself. Much of what is menaly dear and near to me these days has its roots in those days.

In my opinion it is all a matter of personal involvement and that doesn't change.

ISo I can only reffer to what "I" did, what it meant for me etc To be hinest after all these years I have not the slightest Idea of what God, master etc etc is. I know how in gereal people speak about it but it has no meaning for me as it is no part of my personal experience. Questions about true this or that would never arise in my mind as they are all abstract and hypothetical and out of my reach of understanding etc etc. So why should I do it.

My association with people is not based upon DESERVING anything but simple on whether I like them or not. The very fact that I didn't feel for example emotionaly atracted to Bagwan Rajnees, doesn't say het was not what people think nor does the fact that I was attracted to the late MCS intellectualy and emoptionaly say anything about who and what he was.

When being educated, and it became "normal" to critizie etc teachers, at school and authoritave persons elswhere I never partake in it and just focused on my part of things .. being a student, getting the information in my head, digesting what I learned.

It is simple ..if listening to music, music that makes me weap even .. I will never say what a great performer or things like that ..I am a consumer of his music ... nothing more and nothing less .. and as a consumer |I can only speak of the feelings etc that i ATTRIBUTE to the music

So disappointed I was never dissapointeted and when the days came I could no longer enjoy .. I just walked away in gartitude

I would do it all again.

[um]

@ Disappointed

Before I forget .. your comparison was not only funny and original and in a sense also correct ...but not in an ABSOLUTE sense.

Yes, I could fill here pages of incidents that fit in that comparison of yours.

And in the privacy of our home whe also whould discuss these things and often also laugh our hearts out ....let us put it this way .. if a skunk joins the path, he hoesn't all of a sudden become a human being ... he will go on stinking, at least for a while ... hahaha

[Disappointed]

@um

I understand your point and I'm glad you received a positive experience from your time there.

The issue with the seva centers is that everyone plays a fake role though. This has to be highlighted. The person you truly are is stifled and you have to conform to what is expected. You have to speak in a certain tone, say certain things, wear white, pretend to be devout and parrot the same lines that have been spoken by satsangis for decades. In that context, how can any of the "friendships" really be considered genuine when the people involved are playing a role and can't be their true selves? Why is your natural self considered inferior to the fake persona everyone portrays at seva?

People will compare this with corporate culture, but the difference between seva culture and corporate culture is that seva culture consumes your psyche and becomes an integral part of your identity. In corporate culture your health and wellbeing is still somewhat protected via labour laws and if it isn't protected, there are potential avenues via the legal system. Seva also is not equivalent to a cushy Senior Accountant position, it is usually equivalent to an Amazon warehouse worker on call 24/7. This is not a healthy way to live and is inherently damaging

[Disappointed]

@um

Your point about the skunk: this is equivalent to one mental patient making fun of another mental patient. Both of you need help.

[Chiro]

@Karim W Rahmaan
The blatant contempt for the sangat of Godfather Gurinder, and his lack of any comprehension of what a SatGuru actually is, of what Maharaj Charan Singh and the other three masters who went before him were, is shown in conferring that most rare and reverential of terms of respect 'Huzur' to describe the young Ranbaxi lout he has dared to place on the throne of Soamiji Maharaj via Baba Jaimal Singh at Dera Beas. Only when The Great Master died was he called Huzur in a general fashion, and some use it now for Maharaj Charan Singh but not during His lifetime. The term generally denotes respect for the last master who has passed away. These people are pissing on the sangat as they pissed on the AIDS patients around the world with their moonshine drug factories. Without a worthy successor Maharaji had to do the best thing and appoint a manager just to care for the dependants of the institution and let the whole thing gradually collapse. Gurinder is doing his job of smashing Beas to bits for Charan as Kal is doing his job of smashing us to bits for Sat Purush, its all part of the game, the show, the lila. Of course Gurinder fancies an unceasing cascade of power and cash for decades to come falling like the gentle rain on his family Mafia, but don't be too surprised if the whole now fake Beas ashram comes down on his head. No different than the USA when the powerful protect each other, Modi and the corrupt police bosses are likely holding an umbrella over his turban. IMO Brian is holding the entire Indian fake media to shame at this point. Unlike the gullible Indian sangat who will seemingly swallow anything, we patiently await any evidence whatsoever that Jasdeep has a single spiritual bone in his body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPYEmPE2Wcs

[um]

@ Disappointed

Yes, yes, these things did happen and grew worse over time not to mention what happened after 1990.

The changes, at least in my perception, were not that much with the teachings and the teacher but with the changes in the behavior of the volunteers.

To hint!
One day I said to a co-worker that wanted his way based upon his experience as craftsmen: "look if you want to do things here as you are used to do them at work or at home stay there.

Before 1990, and in those circles and with those people I worked together, we never brought in what we were and had at home and at work. We did many things for which we were not schooled or educated at all ... so we printed newsletters but none of us were printers ... later on... what we did became more and more professionalized and things of the world and of our homes seeped through the walls and gradually made the whole thing change into an cooperation ...and ... time to go ...hahahaha

Again, I left the scene with my cupped filled to the brim ... a content i still enjoy everyday ...and .. is even the background of what I write here

And ... I was not alone !!!!
I enjoyed that pleasure with many others

That said there were groups, satsang places etc that I shunned as the very pest for reasons you wrote about ... but that has not been my fate.

[Disappointed]

@um

The "teacher" needs to take more accountability. People tend to blame management for the way things are run, but they're run that way because baba ji wants it that way. The system is designed to instill fear and guilt within the sangat. Fear of being kicked out and left in the cold away from social ties and the "love and warmth" of the sangat (albeit based on fake personas, they probably gossip about you once they get home). Guilt for being a lowly ant undeserving of the true gurus love.

It's all so dramatic.

[um]

@ Chiro

IF .. if you realy would honor your thoughts and feelings about your guru, the late MCS, that you would honor his decision to appoint an successor as wise and divine.

Seen from the perspective of the world things are as described by the world,

But if seen from within the narrative, being IN the world but not OF the world, the same things might have an complete other meaning and value.

From what I have heard great things are attribute to masters and teachers of sant mat, all linked to one another by a chain, expressing the so call Hukm of the lord.
Whether such a thing is true or not I do not dear to say and what I believe is unimportant too.

The point I want to make , just to make a comparison, is the difference.

If a player in football game kicks another player badly, what he did will not be dealt with as it would in the public domain, at most he will get a yellow card

And yes .. the world is not interested in the narrative of sant mat and as it seems many participants in that narrative neither .. they are just worldly people, adopting worldly standards.

When on satsang people listen to stories of the past masters, in India doing things that are adverse they like it but if the same things happen in their own lives, masters acting out in an unacceptable worldly way they get upset.

[manjit]

Hi Chiro. You wrote: "Look at the lives of saints how they spend decades searching for a true Guru amid terrible conditions, travelling thousands of miles with tired feet and broken backs, questioning every sadhu on the way, suffering poverty and hunger. One dissapointment following another......... A perfect Shabd master is there, just try to seek Him. Personally I would recommend you check out Tarn Taran, but failing that do not give up."

Interesting you mention that. Some 20 odd years ago I visited the Tarn Tarn guru when he came to England.

My only memory is, having spent an entire life 👉spend decades searching for a true Guru amid terrible conditions, travelling thousands of miles with tired feet and broken backs, questioning every sadhu on the way, suffering poverty and hunger👈, I noticed the guru figure was wearing a watch ⌚ that appeared to be worth more than my entire personal accumulated wealth. It was hard not to notice to be fair, asides from being so spectacularly bling (I want to say it seemed so out of character for a beturbaned guru figure wearing simple, plain, white "saintly" clothing to be wearing such an ostentatiously glamorous and expensive item, but alas as a Punjabi person who has encountered babas and gurus for nearly half a century, and the cultural act they embody, it is so common that it is a cliche at this point, like a cowboy and their Stetson hat), but also because the baba himself kept fidgeting with it.

It's a funny old world isn't it.

[sant64]

Back in 2008, Gill was an Executive Assistant at Ranbaxy.

"Executive Assistant is an important position." So says this blog's author.

What are the usual job duties of an Executive Assistant?

1) Responding to emails
2) Organizing meeting schedules
3) Organizing travel arrangements, e.g., getting plane tickets and hotel reservations.
4) Managing office supplies, such as staplers and pens, and perhaps post-it notes.

Fun fact: Ranbaxy had some 15,000 employees. Somehow, the blog's author strongly alleges that of those 15,000 Ranbaxy employees, Gill, a lowly executive assistant in charge of meeting schedules and purchasing note pads, was the person responsible for Ranbaxy's quality control issues.

This is Alex Jones level BS.

[DSD]

@ Sant64.
Why would an IIT graduate, MIT post graduate engineer, and Cambridge PhD chemical engineer work as a lowly secretary, schedule meetings, purchase note pads etc.?
A job that may not even require a high school
diploma.
Obviously RSSB is assigning a very different value to those credentials as they are high lighted on its website and communications. Yet, he is still an executive assistant to GSD.

[um]

@DSD

>> why ....<<

My 2 cents contribution

In the past I have been quite around some Indian families that were immigrated here, and came to know many things, differences , about their social background and cultural affairs.

From these conversations I got the impression that individuality in India is quite different from the west. and also the way how they prepare their children for the roles they have to play in the family businesses.

So I came to understand that they mostly have to start at the very bottom of the company and work themselves up to the position they have later to fulfill. Something that halso still is practiced here with greater family concerns.

Irrespective of the level of education etc ..and often they are even send abroad to develop their skills etc in between immigrant circles.

In the end .. all know what the value is of a person, what his capacities are etc etc.

So to me there is nothing surprising here at stake ..it is the indian way of life.

[Chiro]

@manjit
Your point is well taken. A search for a guru has to be vigorous and painstaking. In my own life I had to 'kiss a lot of frogs' before finding mine. Reading, reading, reading, digging out old dusty books from the reserve stores of libraries, checking out different Swamis and ashrams. Probably the first helpful book was Paul Brunton's 'A Search In Secret India.' I spent a good deal of wasted time with Swami Sivananda and other more well known gurus whose writings seemed to imply that Brahmand was the exclusive privilege of brahmins. At the same time flower power ranged all about my hippy head and sex, drugs and rock 'n roll were as equally powerful as the bani of mystics. I received spiritual messages from George Harrison's songs, from Santana's Caravanseri album and Ravi Shankar, while Lata Mangeskar, whose voice was being played loudly in every Indian shop you passed in the street was like a seductive houri luring my incense and ganga addled senses towards the East. Maharaji once said that the Hippy Era was one where God opened up the clouds and let the sunshine of spirituality shine down on the youth of the West. I would work for some time enough to make enough money to go 'On The Road.' for Jack Kerouac, who I never actually read, sent, with that book title, a generation of young potheads hitchhiking around their countries and the world. I would go to ashrams, monasteries and even churches looking for some enlightened soul who could lead me to God realisation. I could go on and on but to quickly conclude, I was in South Africa at the time and had spent time getting deliberately lost like a sadhu and meditating in the vast Knysna forest in the Cape, sleeping with snakes and being watched by tribes of monkeys from the trees above. Finding my way out I realised I had better get back to 'Joburg fast and get a job as money was running out. On the beach in Capetown I was robbed by a gang of mixed race youths with an Indian leader who smashed one lens of my glasses and stole my guitar. And so I hitched penniless the long way to reach Joburg and restart my life. When I reached the crossroads that had a sign saying Johannesburg this way and Durban (a city on the coast) the other way I was grabbed from behind by some invisable force and propelled against my will towards Durban. Durban is the Indian center of SA. As I travelled a name kept repeating in my head 'Ramakrishna Ashram' over and over again. Arriving at the outskirts of the city I asked in an Indian shop where it was and he directed me to the Indian area of Redhills. I arrived on a dark night at a Marble walled Ashram on a steep hill with peacocks walking around. Inside the Swami was teaching a lot of other young people about the vedas, he had a blackboard full of what I just though was nonsense. All I wanted to was leave but I seemed to have been arrested and imprisoned by some power in the building with no way to escape. After some days I heard that a blind Indian holy man, Pitikuli Murigadas was coming to visit from India. When he came the Swami set up his own camp and it was frowned on anyone in the ashram to go to Murigadas's area. But I was drawn to his feet. At the end of a session of bhajans I asked him "Murugadas Ji, what is the highest point in music?" And he answered "The highest point in music is when you don't hear you own instrument because you are playing along with the sound of the music within." And so I heard of the Shabd. That same week I found a book in the ashram bookshop by a Swami Saraswati who said "Turn the gaze of your eyes within and look into the starry sky" and so I heard how to go inside. I asked Murigadas for initiation and he said "You are not mine, you will find your Guru VERY soon!" After Murugadas left I suddenly I felt free to leave and headed back to Joburg. I went to the restaurant of a fellow seeker to bring him my findings, he was seated outside stoned out of his mind with long hair and a long beard like a sadhu. I told him "Josh, I found that you can go into the spiritual regions, look in this book!" I handed him the book and he threw it like a Zen master up behind his head to land in the middle of the evening traffic streaming by and said "Go straight to Sam Busa's gym, we have found the Master!" At that moment I felt the Master's presence, you know how you feel an individual presence for every different person you know? It was as Jesus said John 10:27 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” I hastened to Sam's gym. Sam was standing at the counter. I said "I have come to apply for initiation." Sam said "I have never seen you before, have you attended Satsang?" I said "No," Sam said "Have you read any of the books?" I said "no," Sam said "I suppose you will tell me you have never seen a photo of the master?" I said “No," Sam said “Ok, abstain from meat, fish, eggs ( I was already a veggie) and drugs for six months and you will be initiated. So the moral of this story is you will not find your guru, your guru will find you once you start earnestly searching, if you don't search you will not find.
Murugadas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyaSJp1o5Pw

[Brian Hines]

Sant64, as is the case with other subjects, you are terribly misinformed about what an executive assistant to the CEO of a large corporation does. Do some Googling on this and prevent your ignorance from infecting your comments. Here's an example of what I found from a few minutes of Googling, an article in the Harvard Business Review. I've shared an excerpt. These people are much more than glorified secretaries. Gill had some serious responsibilities. I accept your apology for misleading people with your uninformed comments.

https://hbr.org/2011/05/the-case-for-executive-assistants
-----------------------------------
The most effective executives think deeply about the pieces of their workload that can be taken on—or restructured to be partially taken on—by the assistant. Triaging and drafting replies to e-mails is a central task for virtually all assistants. Some executives have assistants listen in on phone calls in order to organize and follow up on action items. Today many assistants are taking on more-supervisory roles: They’re managing information flow, dealing with basic financial management, attending meetings, and doing more planning and organizing. Executives can help empower their assistants by making it clear to the organization that the assistant has real authority. The message the executive should convey is, “I trust this person to represent me and make decisions.”

[Neon]

Agree, you have to do some real mental gymnastics to think he'd be buying Post-Its as an assistant, especially with the education he has.

[DSD]

A highly achieved individual in any culture become the pride of people, families, communities, cities and countries. They are displayed as emblems and epitomes. They are not made errand boys!

[Vibhor Verma]

I think Brian is selectively deleting my posts. Pathetic.

[Vibhor Verma]

Gill was 27 when he joined Ranbaxy, a fresh PhD graduate, who was undoubtedly privy to all the shady stuff going on at Ranbaxy until he resigned at the age of 31.
Amazing stuff. Y'all should be proud of yourself. You solved it!

[Brian Hines]

Vibhor Verma, I did indeed delete some of your comments, because they included personal attacks rather than a discussion of some issue. Read this blog's commenting policies, then adhere to them, and your comments won't be a problem.

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/commenting-policies.html

For your convenience, here's #1. But you also need to read the others.

"(1) No personal attacks on me or other commenters. Challenge the message, not the messenger. Best: You're wrong, because... Semi-OK: You're a fool, because... Not-OK: You're a fool."

[M K Sharma]

What a saga unfolding before our eyes! The new Baba, now revealed as the cousin of the old Baba, GSD, is knee-deep in the same deceitful schemes, and it seems the corruption runs through the entire family. It’s almost like GSD found the perfect accomplice in his own blood, ensuring that all the ill-gotten gains stay neatly within the family circle. For years, countless devotees have poured their hearts into what they believed was true seva—selfless service—only to realize that their dedication and sacrifices meant nothing when it came to choosing a successor. No one among these devoted followers was ever considered worthy; the role was reserved for a family member who, it seems, has spent time abroad and conveniently stepped in to take over.

This situation stands in stark contrast to the traditions of genuine saints and Gurus of the past, who selected their successors based on merit, spiritual dedication, and selfless service—a painstaking and rigorous process. The transition of leadership was never treated lightly; it was a testament to the chosen one’s spiritual journey and commitment. But here, we witness a spiritual empire handed over like a royal throne, with no regard for the values that once defined the path.

It’s disheartening to see a lineage that now operates like a dynastic rule, where leadership passes down through blood rather than virtue. If God is truly watching over Sant Mat, one hopes that He will hold this family accountable for their actions. But in moments like this, it’s hard not to question: is God still present, and how can He allow this to happen?

[Jim Sutherland]

Hey ALL, especially those close insiders , who either live at the Dera, or close enough to go there often and regularly do Seva.
WHO would satisfy all world wide Satsangis who would accept him as GOD IN HUMAN FORM as BBJ’s chosen Successor, that would be an over all better choice than Guru Gill, Ph.D.? I’ve only been to the Dera once, in 2017, so don’t know any of the insiders there.
In your humble knowledgable opinions?
Don’t be shy. It’s an important question that very well could have Valid consequences.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"That same week I found a book in the ashram bookshop by a Swami Saraswati.."

Posted by: Chiro | September 07, 2024 at 10:05 AM

You brought up that the title Hazur wasn't used until after a Master had passed. But are these just that; Titles?

You just used a title above..
Swami meaning, at One.

Here,
Baba means Father.

Baba Gurinder Singh Ji was at one time titled Sri. Meaning Anointed.

Christ, also means Anointed.

And Prophet {Saw} means, to predict by by Sight of Allah (God, Vahiguru, Brahman.. or whatever you want to call the Supreme or Dao)

So Hazur (Lord) is a fitting spiritual title imo, for Jasdeep Singh Ji

As titles go
Brethren Chiro

[Vibhor Verma]

@DSD

A highly achieved individual who joins an entry level job relative to his qualifications at an age of 27 and serving till the age of 31 is not made privy to shady dealings happening at the organization. Apply some common sense or atleast give some benefit of doubt considering the facts of the matter. Just because he is appointed successor, everyone's insinuating he was "knee deep" in Ranbaxy's dealings. Intellectual bankruptcy at its peak.

[TruthPrevails]

@vibhor verma
an "entry level job" after a PH.D ?
You clearly have no understanding of business.
Can you give me one reason as to what qualifies Gill to be the new guru?
If that is the most devoted and spiritual disciple after 40 years of this path, then the followers need to look elsewhere for spiritual guidance.
How much meditation has Gill done? How much time has he spent with GSD in dera? how much seva has he done?
So GSD only cares about appointing someone who can carry on the dodgy dealings. Maybe he has appointed him because he cannot appoint Shivinder (he's in jail) and because he cannot appoint his own sons because they have too high moral standards to be involved in this, and don't talk to their own father. wouldn't you expect his own sons to be part of the sangat if this path was so great? Ask yourself what they know about GSD that you don't - then your brain might start to function

[um]

@ Truth prevails

From inside the narrative he could appoint anybody, even people that have never meditated etc. There, inside the narrative, the appointment is compare with the transference of [material] wealth to give an incling to those that do not know.
There it is stated that wealth can be had by [1] working, deserving [2] transferred as a matter of heritage or [3] it can be transferred to whomever one wants as a gift.

In the "amal bachan" and written record of an Q&A session with an un known person [probably an advanced disciple] Gharib Das Maharaj [ one of the 4 successors of Swami Ji of Agra] answers in question 98:

>> at the time when the guru assimilates [leaves his mortal body] he appoints a nominee assimilating himself in him who then duly carries on the work of the souls. In the event when it is not ordained that such work be carried on, he assimilates himself in his own home. therefore, it behoves a satsangi that he should not differentiate between sadgurus<<

These are all things beyond my ... you name it ....I just bring it up here to point at the fact that there is a rather huge difference in looking at facts, attributing meaning and value, given the differences in conditioning etc.

Seen from outside the narrative of santmat, things like initiation and transference of the mantle of guruship, is quite different from within the narrative. Even many a disciple looks upon these things as .. let us call them .. administrative issues.

But from inside they are huge things, things far beyond the level of what we can see and understand.

That said ..I am quite aware how tricky these things are, how they can be used and mis-used to fool oneself and others with it.

These things were, mostly indirectly put before the audience by the late MCS ...to give an exemple .. he time and again would state with force in his voice ..LOOK [ grasping his own leggs] ... THIS, ... is NOT the master. And pointing at the audience And YOU ... you [sitting there in front of me] are NOT the disciples.

That difference between how meaning can be attributed by different people is also clear from reading metzinger's book on the blind and the elephant and another academical book related to sant mat ..Radhasoami reality, the logic of a modern faith were santmat is discussed from a sociological point of view.

So, back to the beginning of what I wrote ... IF ...Gharibdas is right and he is stating an fact then what ever happens is ..as the late MCS used to say ..In the hands of the master.

These are all things I have heard of,. Whethet they are true or not I just do not know and .. i do not even care, I never did ... I was never interested in the background so to say of anybody that crossed my path .. if I liked them and if they had something to msay I liked I would listen to them and take their words to heart...I am walking my own path of life

[um]

@ Truthprevails

So he could have appointed you too, and according Garibdas, after his departure you would be able to function as a guru ..irrespective of your attainments, character, social status and cultural background.

Would you like it?
Would the masses like it?

Let people be glad that there are people to be found ...hahahaha

[Appreciative Reader]

I’d touched on this in my initial comment here. Given that this subject seems, rather unexpectedly, to have generated disagreement and debate, let me just settle this matter once and for all here:

The EA to MD/CEO position is nothing like a secretarial position. Positions and hierarchies vary from organization to organization, and I couldn’t speak for every one of them, and do not know about how it was at Ranbaxy specifically; but in my experience this position, in terms of hierarchy, varies from Manager to Senior Manager level up to even GM/VP/Director level, as far as seniority and pay grade and perks. And what is more, the qualifications for this position are commensurate with that kind of hierarchical-level, as are the emoluments this position usually draws. It is not uncommon to find top notch Engineering graduates and top notch B-school grads in a position like this, and if successfully executed this position can actually offer a quick rise to direct senior managerial responsibilities and position. (I’d say there are two kinds of people that man EA-to-CEO positions in the better and larger organizations. One kind would be people from an administration background, who stay on as EA. And the other kind would be people with technical and business backgrounds, usually in consonance with the specialized requirements of particular industries: and it is this lot that usually tends to segue from EA positions directly on to senior managerial positions.)

Like I’d said in my initial comment here, the “Executive Assistant” name for the position is misleadingly …humble, unassuming. Apart from what it might subsequently lead to, it is, in itself, a very responsible position. There might sometimes be assistants assigned to assist this “executive assistant”. Responsibilities often include keeping tabs (in concrete, task-oriented terms) of ongoing projects (as in actual projects, like works expansion, or construction projects, I mean major projects internal to the organization in question), keeping on top of statutory requirements (which would mean active, task-oriented liaison with internal auditors, rating agencies, and so on), conducting/directing specific focused research assignments as required by the CEO personally or maybe the Board. …And so on, the list actually is endless, since the responsibilities of the CEO are all-encompassing; and this varies from place to place, varies a great deal.

So no, definitely not a secretary level position. (Although again, like I said, every organization is different, and I don’t know about and can’t speak for every one of them. But in general, assuredly not just a secretary.)

----------

What I’ve said above, I’ve said basis what I’ve seen myself. However, it is good practice to provide verifiable evidence to back up one’s claims, particularly when the issue is contentious --- as this one, rather surprisingly, seems to have become. So, here’s two concrete examples I’ve pulled up just now via a quick search.

1. A talent search company lists out generic details of what an EA to CEO position entails: link: https://www.kellerexecutivesearch.com/insight/what-does-an-assistant-to-the-ceo-do/

Note what they say here: “Often the step after the executive assistant to the chief executive officer, is the role of CEO.” …Now that’s probably a best-case scenario; and I’ve not personally seen such happen, not in one single direct hop. But moving on from EA positions to GM positions is very much a thing.

2. This one’s an actual job listing: link: https://washingtonstem.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Executive-Assistant-10.19-FINAL.pdf

Now this particular position seems not to call for much industry-specific specialized/technical expertise, and comprises mostly general administrative stuff. Which is fair enough, like I said it varies from place to place. But again, note the salary range: ~$76.5K to ~$93.5K. Not stellar, but far from loose change.

----------

Of course, what we’re actually talking about here, when it comes to Jasdeep Singh Gill, is not so much seniority per se, nor the salary level, nor subsequent career path. What we're talking about here is the access to and familiarity with everything that was happening at Ranbaxy, that one might expect from this position. If Ranbaxy was anything like the places I’ve seen and am referring to from my personal observation, then without a doubt he’d know, and probably he’d actually be a part of much of it, in terms of actual facilitation and execution.

Finally, and to be fair: Apparently he’d left Ranbaxy soon after, within some three to four years. Now it is possible that after having become fully aware of the shenanigans at Ranbaxy, he upped and left as fast as he could. Much like the two bosses of the guy in Brian’s main post, both of whom were apparently honest men. So sure, that’s a possibility. …But if that were the case, then, given that it was via Ranbaxy that GSD and his sons made their millions, then would it not be obvious to him that GSD was benefiting from those very shenanigans that had scared him off? Would he not then stay well away from GSD, rather than entering into this joint guru-ship with him?

[Brian Hines]

Appreciative Reader, thanks for casting light on this Executive Assistant topic. Very informative comment. Yes, it's absurd that some other commenters have wrongly termed the EA at Ranbaxy, who reported to the CEO, as a "secretary." One minute of Googling would have revealed that this couldn't be true, but often those who don't know are oblivious to their ignorance.

[Disappointed]

@Brian

Why are people saying he was an EA? rssb.org and you'd post say that he worked in project management and strategy both of which would correspond with his educational background. Where did EA come from?

[Brian Hines]

Disappointed, the EA came from several stories in the Indian press. I linked to one of them in this post:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2024/Sep/02/jasdeep-singh-gill-appointed-as-new-head-of-radha-swami-satsang-beas-dera
----------------------
"Gill is presently residing in Mumbai. In 2019 Jasdeep Singh joined as Chief Strategy Officer and Chief of Staff at Cipla Limited and on May 31 this year he resigned and on September 2, he was appointed as the head of Dera Beas.

He had also been associated with Ethris and Achira Labs Private Limited as a Board Observer. Gill was also a board member of Wealthy Therapeutics till March this year. Earlier he served at Ranbaxy as Executive Assistant to the CEO and at Cambridge University Entrepreneurs as the President and Chairman."
--------------------
So the EA to the CEO shows Gill's position in the Ranbaxy organizational chart: very high up. Some of the duties he performed are in the RSSB description: "Worked across Project management and Strategy functions"

This shows that he had significant responsibilities carried out from his high position in Ranbaxy.

[umami]

swami umami: "My first job was fry guy at a shopping mall Burger King in Albuquerque. It takes two hands to handle the Whopper. Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us. All we ask is that you let us serve it your way. Have it your way, have it your way."

[Appreciative Reader]

Disappointed, working as EA and working in project management and strategy can sometimes be the same thing. Sure, as EA you won't actually be responsible for either, in the sense of the buck stops with you; but an EA may well find themselves immersed in those functions, albeit not exclusively. Which is why you can find people with excellent technical and business qualifications manning these positions; and also why this position sometimes offers a way to segue to full-time senior managerial responsibilities relatively quickly.

Not saying that's invariably the case. Sometimes it's more administrative content, and other people fulfil those more technical and strategic roles for the CEO. And nor can I speak for every large corporation, obviously. But like I've been saying, the EA term can be a bit misleading, if one isn't aware of this.

...That he was EA I got from right here. Hell, that there lives and breathes a guy called JSG I got from right here. Just pointing out that being an EA-to-CEO, and working in projects and strategy and choosing this job while having such excellent qualifications, these aren't mutually exclusive things.

[777]

HUZUR JASDEEP JI BABAJI = SAWAN
but He doesn't t know

777

[How it worjt by AI GROK]

Some 6 months ago
U placed ab essay kind of text here and in X
Today as Ankharon
I asked to create a better English and the result
is flabbergasting
On paragraphe ::

This being, in its infinite wisdom, orchestrates everything from the quantum level to the grandest cosmic scales, ensuring that every particle, every being, every universe, is on a journey towards love.
Only if U like , Pls do Like

777
' I don t mention Masters on X. - Masters are for the URGENT ASAPS )

[Disappointed]

@Appreciative

Rssb.org doesn't mention EA, so the EA role seems to be fabricated by Indian media. He wasn't an EA.

From rssb.org
Ranbaxy (2006 – 2010): Multiple roles
Worked across Project management and Strategy functions

[Brian Hines]

Disappointed, RSSB describes what Gill did, not what his title was. They're two different things. Gill was Executive Assistant to the CEO of Ranbaxy taking on multiple roles in his job as Executive Assistant. There's no evidence Indian media have fabricated the EA thing. That's a conspiracy theory you've fabricated.

[Aam]

@Disappointed
The questions RSSB followers should be asking is are they seekers of truth or believers of something to be true (may not be)?
What qualifies JSG as a Satguru? Has he meditated his way to Sach Khand and come back to collect marked souls assigned to him by Radha Swami?
Or did his guru impart his own spiritual wealth to JSG? And transformed into a Satguru? If so, Do you believe that GSD has that ability? Or has reached Sach Khand himself?
If you answer these questions positively, you shouldn't be on this site looking for answers. If negatively, then keep searching for your spirituality beyond RSSB.

Nominations or appointments of successors shouldn't carry any weight for seekers. They are corporate tools used to maintain control of the organization IMHO.
And seekers are very different than believers.

[Disappointed]

@Aam

I was just talking about his job title, not whether he is a true guru

[Disappointed]

@Brian

That's true actually, there isn't evidence either way, I assumed project management and strategy meant exactly that: project manager and strategy advisor. Something along those lines.

Also conspiracy theory is a pretty loaded phrase

[Brian Hines]

Disappointed, you claimed that the Indian press fabricated his job title. That’s a loaded word since it implies a conspiracy among several publications that said Gill was an Executive Assistant.

[Disappointed]

@Brian

That's fair, poor word choice on my part

[Appreciative Reader]

Disapointed, you think that the New Indian Express report that Brian linked to has fabricated, or is otherwise mistaken about, JSG having been EA to CEO at Ranbaxy? ...Why do you think that? It all seems pretty straightforward to me. Guy with stellar technical qualifications joins as EA to CEO, and early on gets exposure to projects and strategy at the highest level (that he might have otherwise taken longer to, at that level, had he not opted for the EA to CEO route, but instead joined in a technical role and worked his way up).

And then he leveraged that exposure in strategy to move on to a career focused on strategy, and ended up Chief of Strategy at another large Indian pharma company. That career route is nothing out of the ordinary. I don't mean to be disparaging when I say it's not out of the ordinary, certainly it is a very successful career route, brilliant even. The man did reach those designations fairly early, apparently he's only mid-forties now. My point is, that career route is entirely plausible. Not sure why you're doubting any of this.

[Disappointed]

@Appreciative

I'm not interested in this back and forth, it's beating a dead horse at this point

[Disappointed]

@Appreciative

I already said it was a poor choice of words

[Appreciative Reader]

Uhhh, it's not so much "poor choice of words" --- like "they fabricated" as opposed to "they mistakenly claimed" --- as having no plausible reason to doubt that narrative at all.

But fair enough, about letting the poor beast be. Certainly if you now stand convinced that your earlier doubts about this EA business were unfounded. And also if you aren't, but nevertheless don't want to talk about it.

Point is, I've seen nothing so far that throws doubt on the narrative that JSG was a collaborator of the murky goings-on at Ranbaxy. ...Now that's dishonesty certainly, but dishonesty of the kind often encountered in the corporate world. Not the standout salesman-making-millions-by-leveraging-guru-status-while-coolly-paupering-and-ruining-the-rubes-that-trusted-him-and-gave-him-those-millions-level dishonesty of GSD, we've no evidence of that kind of propensity when it comes to JSG; but nevertheless it points to a guy whose ethics are questionable.

Does that bear in any way on whether he's a good choice as guru of RSSB? Is he a good choice for guru of RSSB? That's a different --- and you're right, more interesting --- question overall. Happy to drop this absurd EA red herring that was introduced here, as long as we're clear that it's all of it what's technically called a nothingburger by the spiritually minded.

[Disappointed]

@Appreciative

What in the world?

I literally said I had thought the rssb.org points were similar to job titles and fabricated was a poor choice of words. Do you just like arguing? This is ridiculous. Please stop

[Appreciative Reader]

*holds up hands*

Sure, I'll back off. No offense intended.

Just wanted to make that nuance clear, that I thought your words still left in, and in fact still do --- like "poor choice of words", and "no evidence either way". But take it easy, didn't mean this as an attack on you.

[Appreciative Reader]

Heh, this absurd little sidebar about this Executive Assistant nonsense actually demonstrates one amusing and yet very real phenomenon.

(@Disappointed, this is not about you at all! Neither directly nor indirectly. This is just a general thought that came to mind just now, basis this EA thing here.)

It’s very easy to lie and misrepresent. And it’s much more difficult, time-taking, effort-intensive, to conclusively nail that lie and that misrepresentation. So that that actually makes for an effective debate strategy --- not just in structured debates, but even generally. Just toss out one lie after another, in matters big and small, it’ll only take a minute or less for every item; but it takes ten times as long, and sometimes significantly more, and a great deal of effort, to correct all of those lies and misinformation. And when the one that’s throwing out this misinformation lacks the integrity and the decency to ever come back and clearly acknowledge their error, then they invariably leave those that support their cause celebrating their “win”; and even some/many of the truly fair and impartial are left in some doubt about who it is that is right ---- given that not everyone attends to fact checks since they’re not that invested, given that not everyone can follow every little thing, given that the process of fact check itself sometimes throws up minor disagreements, and given that some fact checks may themselves not be perfect when presented off the cuff.

Haha, yes, I’m referring to the tactics employed, most conspicuously, by Trump! And not just he, there’s loads of other more egregious examples elsewhere, absolutely; but the US at any rate has never quite seen anything like this level of such brazen lying, so very prolifically about everything under the sun, and from someone in such a position. And Trump uses this strategy to “win” debates --- certainly in the minds of the lemmings that follow him, to whom in any case truth does not matter at all except when it can be selectively marshalled, but also in the minds of many who are following the exchanges (the presidential debates, not the exchanges here) with an open mind.

Fact checks. Built into the debate structure itself. That’s the only way to counter this. Fact checks in the debate. Fact checks elsewhere. Fact checks in the US. Fact checks elsewhere, in other geographies as well, where lies have taken hold.

Except: The powers that be then start cracking down on the fact checkers themselves. And the circle of darkness completes itself. …Fortunately for the US, things haven’t come to quite such a pass, where fact checkers are actually locked up, not just yet. But another term of the dictatorial Trump and his Project-25 lemmings, and the US may well join the Chinas and Russias and North Koreas and Indias and Thailands and Pakistans and Saudi Arabias of the world, where the clear line between truth and falsehood has been more or less obliterated.

----------

Again, nothing at all to do with you, @Disappointed! Not even by implication, not even remotely.

Just, this EA business does demonstrate how complete nonsense can be built up into an issue, and sometimes a winning strategy, if only one is brazen enough and prolific enough in one’s dishonesty.

[um]

@ AR

>>Just, this EA business does demonstrate how complete nonsense can be built up into an issue, and sometimes a winning strategy, if only one is brazen enough and prolific enough in one’s dishonesty <<

Hahaha ..yes, Yes AR ...that is how it is.

Things are what they are
seldom what they look like
let alone how they are presented.

Hahaha if it cannot be proven that somebody is a thief, one can always prove he did't polish his shoe and by strategic reasoning shown that it is a halmark of thieves.

[Raw Vegan]

For Appreciative Reader.
Read the book (Bottle of Lies).

[um]

@ Raw Vegan

Ach .. he can but if anybody thinks that by exposing this lie, lying will be eliminated.

Everybody lies or is not telling the truth for their own interests.
Becoming wealthy and remaining wealth is only possible at the cost of many others.

The only solution would be the elimination or at least the control of share-holders and the control on the commercialization of products

Big pharma, big this-or-that, is not possible without consumers that are like minded.
No snake-oil-sellers, without those that are like minded.

Change the world by changing yourself ...if you try you will find how difficult that is and in realizing that simple fact you will understand how difficult it is that the world can be changed. ..can or will ..or ... is even able to be changed.

Idealist. and those that own rights of others that is not given to them and fight for it, are the most dangers people on earth

Maybe reading the book it will help AR to understand this ..if so it would be not be a waste of time.

[Appreciative Reader]

“For Appreciative Reader.
Read the book (Bottle of Lies).”

Thanks for the reference, Raw Vegan. Yep, that does look like a very interesting and informative read.

I’ve just now checked out a review of it. (Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/books/review/bottle-of-lies-katherine-eban.html )

Actually this subject has been discussed in detail on this blog. I’ve followed that discussion, but only broadly, and don’t remember much of the details of what was then discussed (although the gist of it is clear in my mind). This very book may have been discussed here, because the name of that man mentioned there, Dinesh Thakur, it’s a name I’m familiar with, and I expect I came across the name here back then.

Completely horrible, that level of unconscionable runaway greed and complete disregard for lives and people’s health. Everyone responsible for this should receive the stiffest sentences for this kind of thing. And no doubt they already would have, under a less corrupt system.

[Appreciative Reader]

“Hahaha if it cannot be proven that somebody is a thief, one can always prove he did't polish his shoe and by strategic reasoning shown that it is a halmark of thieves.”

Hey, um.

I take it you’re suggesting that, in your view, Brian’s done exactly what I’ve criticized in my comment, and has built up an apparent case against GSD that has no actual substance. Well, I don’t agree, at all. …But if you’d like to discuss your reasons for thinking what you do, and mine for thinking differently, then I’m going to have to ask you to drop the hint and innuendo, and instead clearly speak your mind. I don’t want to keep second-guessing your cryptic hints, and aiming answers at guessed-at arguments from you, when you can just as easily explain yourself clearly.

----------

“Idealist. and those that own rights of others that is not given to them and fight for it, are the most dangers people on earth

Maybe reading the book it will help AR to understand this ..if so it would be not be a waste of time.”

Again, um, I disagree squarely.

Certainly idealism left unchecked and untethered to reality can make one do things that are not good, and certainly it is good to be on guard against that. But that does not mean that idealism is per se necessarily harmful. …And in any case, trying oneself to adhere to the truth as far as possible, and to try to ensure that lies and disinformation are not seen as an equivalent alternative to facts and truth, is hardly the kind of “idealism” that might prove to be dangerous, at least not in general.

As for that book, it’s a detailed account of the shenanigans at Ranbaxy, essentially how they kept cutting costs by cutting corners, and then selling those dangerous drugs, of questionable quality, to make money. What we’ve all seen Brian discuss in complete detail some months/years back. It most emphatically does not show that idealists are dangerous. On the contrary, it clearly demonstrates how dishonesty is dangerous, literally costing lives and impacting the health of people, and how idealism, in terms specifically of adhering to the truth, can bring this to light and stop that evil from continuing.

[um]

@ AR

It is not in my hands how you appreciate my words.

Personally I am not interested in this financial affair, as I do not need it to make up mu mind about anything, nor how this affair is seen and/or shown by those that are interested for their own motivating reasons.

In general I do react on what is [psychological] at stake here in this blog

[Appreciative Reader]

"@ AR

It is not in my hands how you appreciate my words."

You keep on saying such odd things. Random things that mean nothing at all.

This, for instance. What does this even mean, in context of what you said, and what I said in response?

I might say the same to you, after all, that it is not in my hands how you appreciate *my* words, isn't it?

----------

"Personally I am not interested in this financial affair,"

And that is fair enough. Your personal interests and tastes are your business.

But you can hardly extrapolate that to imply that "this financial affair" is therefore unimportant.

And again, what has what you say now, got to do with what you'd said earlier? I mean that innuendo about Brian's coverage of GSD's shenanigans, that you never spelt out clearly; and that bit about idealism being inherently dangerous?

...Heh, you're once again saying these ...random things, unrelated to what either of us said to each other before this.

----------

Haha, um, I'm not sure any more how I should respond when I see your comments. Maybe I should keep a volume of Lewis Carroll nearby, and quote pieces from it to you. We might then both laugh over it, neither of us meaning anything we say, or taking any of it at all seriously. Which after all is a rather Zen-like thing to do, in this short meaning-free life of ours.

[um]

@ AR

about that book etc ..do read my contribution again.
I just created another perspective, ...

I loosened the concept from Ranbaxy etc

Long before it was mentioned here I knew about the pharmaceutical and fashion affairs of the world in general, the USA and Europe in particular.
I also know about the finacial affair that is discussed here.

Being an believer in "attributing meaning and value " to facts I did my own share without discussing that ever here.

Finally again ... To give my attention etc to things facts, I depend on myself .. I feel free to give what is mine to whatever and whomever I want .. be it my time, my feelings or whatever.

Otherwise I have to emigrate to North Korea.

[um]

@ AR

>> But you can hardly extrapolate that to imply that "this financial affair" is therefore unimportant.<<

Whether a fact is ÏMPORTANT" or not is a matter of attributing meaning and value.
By itself it is just meaningless

[um]

@ AR

>> Haha, um, I'm not sure any more how I should respond when I see your comments<<

I do understand.
I will take that into account in the future.

[Appreciative Reader]

Okay, I did re-read your comment about the book. In the book, there's this idealist, this truth-teller, this Dinesh Thakur person, who, no doubt at some loss and risk to himself, exposed the shenanigans at Ranbaxy to the FDA, and thereby stopped this foul evil trade of theirs in substandard dodgy drugs. That's an example of rank opportunism being dangerous, and the idealist and truth-teller saving lives even at cost to himself.

And your comment on specifically that part, was to label idealists as the most dangerous people on earth.

And then, when questioned, you say that you're personally not interested in those shenanigans at Ranbaxy; and that, instead, you're interested in examining the psychology of the people involved.

I give up. I can't connect those random dots. You can do that for me, if you like. I don't see why you wouldn't; but your call.

...Haha, per usual, this is starting to get a bit surreal, one more time! ...Whether or not I get what you're driving at, it's always fun talking with you, old friend.

[um]

@ AR

One can expose it but exposing is not going to solve it.
There have so many thieves be exposed and executed etc but theft still prevails.

Idealist want to change the world according their point of view without being asked to do so without having the power to dos so ..so by necessity they turn to violence tp have their wishes become true.

Read the history books.....

What more can I say

Do you think I do not know whatever you people know?
I differ maybe from you people in the way I allow these things to function in my life.

Are these simple things so difficulT
I do not ask anybody anything ..I just enjpy looking at them what they have in mind.
What they have in mind is theirs

[Appreciative Reader]

"@ AR

One can expose it but exposing is not going to solve it.
There have so many thieves be exposed and executed etc but theft still prevails."

...Ok, I get you now, um. ...Thanks for spelling that out!

But again, I don't see that that's a valid POV. ...Allow me to explain:

On one hand you have untramelled lies and falsehood and dishonesty. On the other hand there's what we'd all like to see, zero falsehoods and zero lies and zero dishonesty. ...So sure, it may be difficult --- and in practice it may be impossible --- to arrive at a pure version of the latter. But does that mean that we should therefore resign ourselves to the former? I don't see that, at all. Why would we do that?

The only thing we can do, is to keep addressing specific instances of lying, specific instances of disinformation, specific instances of dishonesty. And thereby, to an extent, lessening these things. ...Can we ever eradicate them completely? Who knows, maybe one day yes, maybe no never. But even if you're right, and we never ever are able to eradicate them: but why must we therefore not act to cut them down where we can?

Think about it, um. That sounds unreasonably defeatist to me. ...I mean, let's say someone runs up an infection, or breaks a leg. Now they can never arrive at complete, endless health: some ailment, some ill health, will, inevitably, visit them sometime or the other, sooner or later. But does that mean that that person will therefore not interest himself in doctors and cures, and completely ignore his broken bones or his fever? Surely not?! He'll keep on visiting doctors, he'll keep on looking for cures, despite knowing how ultimately futile it all is.

Likewise, surely, with this lying and dishonesty thing as well?

[um]

@ AR

Hahaha ...most people agree with you and I have no mission.

[Appreciative Reader]

"most people agree with you"

But not you, um?

[um]

@ AR

I had an additional response written before this question occurred that in retrospect was the complete answer to this question but I deleted it in order not to pollute the blog.

I am not going to rewrite it but the gist is that I have acted my whole life as I was trained at home .... Listen, do not argue, take from what you hear what you want and what you can.

Things that people share with others, things that are near and dear to them, are like food, like fruits on a tree, ... they are free to pluck and digest

Why would anybody want to argue with a tree?

[Appreciative Reader]

Heh, after reading that last comment of yours, once again I’ve no clue what to say now!

Now when one has nothing to say, then it’s usually a good idea to say nothing. But in this case, given you’ve addressed me, and we're already in the midst of this somewhat extended exchange, then it’s a bit rude to that. And I most certainly don’t want to be rude to you of all people, old friend.

So then, what I’m going to do is, I’ll briefly recap our conversation. And then I’ll leave it to you to say whatever you like on whatever you like, whether from the whole range of topics we seem to have already covered here, or otherwise.

But always fun talking, um, cheers.

----------

Brief recap:

AR: General comment about how easy it is to lie, and how much more effort-intensive it is to nail lies.

um: Responds to above with Innuendo about, probably, the above applying to Brian’s description and discussion of GSD as less than honest; and further innuendo about, probably, how an idealistic attachment to that kind of intellectual integrity and push for truth, can be very dangerous.

AR: Disagrees with um on both points. Clearly spells out disagreement over the latter point. And asks um for clarity about the former before discussing it any further, beyond merely expressing disagreement.

um: Says he personally is not interested in the shenanigans at Ranbaxy.

AR: Points out that this seems to be a non sequitur.

um: Asks um to re-read his comment about Bottle of Lies, implying that that will explain his POV.

AR: Does just that. And points out that the book seems to make the exact opposite point.

um: Says that exposing dishonesty will not lead to obliteration of such.

AR: Points out that that’s no reason to not expose lies, using the analogy of one’s health.

um: Says that most people would agree with what AR's just says.

AR: Asks um whether, like most people, he too agrees, or whether he disagrees.

um: Suggests that he, um, is like an unthinking non-interactive tree, rather than a thinking interactive human being!! And asks AR why he’s “arguing” with a tree!!

----------

Haha, um, when you see our whole conversation laid out there like that, the I hope you’ll appreciate the …surreal nature of it!

I leave you now to say whatever more you like about whatever you like. I’ll read your response/s, if any, with the greatest interest and attention. But if after this I find myself with nothing meaningful to say, then I’ll just say nothing. Please don’t mind if I do that, right? …Cheers.

[Appreciative Reader]

Duh. Just realized something, while checking back on the thread in the course of recounting my conversation with um: Bottle of Lies is the very book discussed in Brian’s main post!! Double duh!

@Raw Vegan, I imagined you were suggesting another book about this subject here, never realizing that you were referring to the same text that is actually being discussed here!

----------

Maybe a last comment before I sign off, wondering whether those who are disappointed in GSD, and are now convinced he’s not the true satguru, are able to sense how incongruous is their idea that there might even be such a thing as a satguru at all? …If they’re able to swallow whole such an extravagant cosmology and worldview, then surely it’s child’s play to further swallow a dishonest greedy satguru as well? …I mean, that’s like believing me fully when I claim that I’ve got a pet dragon in my garage; but then scoffing when I report that my dragon’s gluttonous and obese and waddles around on the ground, as opposed to austere and sleek and given to flying long distances.

[um]

@ AR

Hahaha ... how can I possible make life easier for you?

Talking to people, reading what people write, in a sense can be compared with a muse for an artist.

What people say and write, stirs thoughts and feelings. It has nothing to do with being in agreement or not with them.

I have listened to certain people for hours at an stretch without speaking a word and even remembering what they said and yet owe these people gratitude as the were instrumental in many decisions, insights etc et,. They taught me certain things about menkind without intending or knowing that would be the fruit I would take away.

Many of you here, in the way you participate here, offers me likewise a lot of what i would call collateral information.

Finally .. I have listened to some interviews with Metzinger in his own language. While listening to what he says, trying to understand it, I also at the same time take in information about him, his body language, he exposing hhis motivations, the meaning his reasurch has for him. and many more of these things.

Im stiil waiting for my brain to disclose what I saw in his face, the way he looks at people...his face alone is a source of inspiration to understand.

In being around with people, there is more that the intelectual content of their words.
It is just my hang up to be receptive for these things.

[Seeker]

To make sense of various successor ships one can deploy the framework of the change in axis of spirituality.

Baba Sawan Singh Ji had predicted that the axis of spirituality will one day shift from the east to the west. The future PLMs will no longer be available In the East (India, etc). The future PLMs will be born in the West (especially in the USA).

According to the time frame provided, this should have started happening from the 90s to about now.

The other thing that was said was that PLMs can appoint administrators as successors to keep the line going for the sake of maintenance of the Dera/organization.

It was also said that no line ever has more than 5 PLMs in it and 5 PLMs is a very rare exception. Usually it is 1 or 2 in a line. Some rare cases it can go to 3 or 4. Then the spiritual line dies and is replaced by a religious line. Initiations continue to happen but slowly spirituality gets replaced.

[um]

@ sEEKER

Find something universal, global that is at the same time honoring the regional traditions.

Calculation, numbers, are the same all over the world.
So the new global acceptable spiritual teaching and practice, must have the swame characteristics of calculation. Calculation has no history, no regional identity .. it is a tool to an end, an tool to solve set problems.

In the same way an universal practice must solve psychological, spiritual problems and not lean on individual inner experiences due to changes in the body by this or that trauma and not needing science to come up with explanations and answers to human questions for which science is not meant.

Questions humans ask them selves about reality, the meaning and value of their life, should not be answered by experts, others that the person himself. The new global teaching and practice should make that possible

Someone will present it one day .. a teaching without a past, and future

[Kranvir]

What's better than 1 fake ass baba, answer is 2 fake ass clueless babas.
Jaspreet is the nephew of gurinder dhillon through his sister - Keep the wealth in the family. A few obvious questions, why do you need a business strategist as a guru ??? Could it be skills necessary on the expansion and world domination of the rssb cult - a replacement of sikhism. Also why does jaspreet need training, and secondly training from a clueless make it up as you go along baba, gurinder? Isn't god realization about simply telling the truth which is god given?
The fact that jaspreet needs training tells me he is being brainwashed into the lies and politics, and manipulation techniques and nothing to do with gods truth. In other words he is an agent of kaal / Lucifer. Gurinder your health is failing , your days are numbered and karma is being served - there is no escape.

[um]

@ Kranvir

Religion in India is like daily chai
If a stall closes or the owner dies or, is put into Gail or whatever, they just go to another stall.
Have a cup of tea.

[El]

I leave all the sifting through of facts to all the great thinkers here. BUT….All along this whole saga over the years one thing amused me and I’m not sure if it is ok to say so I never did. But here goes:
That the pharmaceutical peeps in India thought they could pull underhanded dealings over on the Japanese buyers…
Clearly someone did not realize something about Japanese businessmen.
*BIG MISTAKE*

[El]

One more comment that I wonder how many people relate to this.
In this world everyone is a lying crook. Family members. Your own parents and the sly bs they hide. Partners. Friends. Dentists. The Consulate. Hey might as well go there…. The guvment, f b i c i a etc. Then? Why not the people where you pray.
🤮
So… what if this is hell and everyone a demon of sorts. You’d at least be less surprised at all the shenanigans.

[umami]

El,
I too have wondered whether this is hell or purgatory.

[Raw zvegan]

To Aporeciative Reader
Thakur did not end the corruption at Ranbaxy, you have not read the book. Please read the book, BOTTLE OF LIES.
There was no end to the lies, corruption and lives being put at risk by selling useless drugs. Patients were dying, does no one get that? The drugs were so degraded, they were killing patients.
Forget the theoretical and mental gymnastics, what if it was your loved one dying because Malivunder wanted to be the richest man in India and didn't care two hoots who died in order to achieve his ambition?

[um]

@ Raw Zvegan

If authorities, producers of drugs in the USA and Europe had not transferred the production and research to India and other asian countries, in the FIRST place these things would never have happened

They did it all for reasons that are NOT in your interests or of those near and dear to you.

.To put the blame on them ...is part of their strategy. They all knew or could have known that in india whatever is produced is messed with.

Talk with just any Indian and he or she will start to laugh if you would buy powdered turmeric. Why? Because in that form the chances that they have mixed it with earth or something worst will be possible.

This messing around with regulations and research results and productions is the very reason that many things were left to asian countries to be researched and produced ..not only drugs but also the very clothes you wear.probably.

The whole chain is guilty my friend all and everybody even the coinsumers

[um]

@ Raw Zvegan

My own father died at early age of 56 due to the long use of drugs. Drugs prescribed by very kind GP's, specialists and local pharmacists.

His liver could no longer handle the chemicals he ingested.

None of them tried to figured out what caused the illness of our dad. They all took the short cut.

They all were living in cat clean houses as very respected people. If you point your finger to the CEO's of Ranbaxy you too are taking a short cut .. a simple solution for a very complex matter involving many people.

If you think that nailing the ceo's of ranbaxy has stopped what frustrates you or even will stop in the future than you are dreaming and living in fantasy land.

[Raw Vegan]

Dear Um
Am well aware that the problem is not just related to Ranbaxy. China and India are notorious for substandard generic drugs. Neither am I under any illusions that the problem will be solved. There will always be evil people mercilessly willing to trade people's lives for financial profit on a global scale and not just in the pharmaceutical sector.
It's a pity people are not aware of alternative treatments. Drugs only treat the symptom, they don't cure long term.
Eventually, the liver can't cope with the toxic onslaught. It's tragic. Am sorry your father had to go through such poisoning.

[um]

@ Raw Vegan

In all these matters I am very "egocentric" so that I feel not compelled to pick up a proverbial stone, Fortunately for all of us we have legal institutions that try to make the best of it..

P.S.
If the well to do, highly educated people that man the staff offices of our society would not buy their recreational cocaine, we would not have a drug problem and drug related crimes etc etc.

Thank you for your compassion.

The same holds for the poisoning of the minds of our use by TicToc

Nothing stands on its own legs, it is all related, complex.

[Appreciative Reader]

@Raw Vegan,

Maybe you misunderstand the gist of what I said. And certainly, I could be wrong about what I believe eventually transpired at Ranbaxy; and in that case I’ll appreciate your correcting that impression of mine, which I agree is only a sketchy one. Let me clearly present my views along three specifics here, and request you to address each of these three:

1. First about what you said towards the end of your comment to me: Certainly I care about, and condemn, the substandard drugs produced at Ranbaxy. Certainly I condemn Malvinder, who I believe was the CEO there at the time, for perpetrating that evil. Certainly I condemn Shivinder as well, who also was part of it. And also, I condemn GSD, who also, as advisor, no doubt colluded in that nonsense, and at the very least was no doubt fully aware of the quality issues there but yet let it slide. …I think we’re in agreement there, not sure where you see “theoretical and mental gymnastics” there. Again, I think we’re in agreement here, as far as condemning that evil, and maybe you misunderstood my position on this.

To be clear: That GSD is doubtless culpable in terms of the “advice” he peddled, effectively in exchange for completely undeserved millions, that does not, in the least, preclude the two Singh brothers also being culpable. Maybe that was the point on which rests your misunderstanding? That GSD is doubtless culpable, does NOT mean that the CEO himself therefore, in my view, deserves to be let off!

2. As far as Dinesh Thakur: Here’s my (admittedly sketchy) impression of what happened: Dinesh Thakur was the whistleblower who brought all of those shenanigans to the notice of the FDA. I would assume that the FDA has thereafter taken steps to stop the import of their shoddy products into the US? And again, it was Thakur’s intervention/whistle-blowing that ultimately brought all of this to the attention of Dai Ichi, and to whomever subsequently bought it from them: and after all of this hoo-ha, I would assume that that corrupt practice would have stopped there now, subsequent to those two sales (Ranbaxy to Dai Ichi, and Dai Ichi to the final buyer)? Is that not the case, and are you suggesting that new entity, whatever it’s now called after Dai Ichi sold it off, even now continues to sell dodgy drugs?

3. I’ll pass up on reading the book at this time, Raw Vegan. I’m sure it’s a very informative book, as far as this matter, but TBF I’m not *that* invested in this business, and am aware of all of this primarily because of Brian’s coverage of the matter on his blog; and only a fraction of which I’ve read here I retain in memory as far as the small details, but I believe I have grasped the essential gist of it when it comes to GSD’s role in the matter. But that said, what impression I do have, certainly I’d like it to be consistent with facts --- and to change that opinion, if they're not.

…Well, my impression is there’s two issues here: intertwined issues, but two separate issues nevertheless: first, the shoddy drugs; and two, the financial mess. Ranbaxy produced shoddy drugs, which, thanks to Thakur and others, came to light but after a lag. Meantime, the Singh brothers, following GSD’s advice, tried to cash out by selling this whole mess to Dai Ichi, without disclosing any of this. And the bulk of the money they got from the sale they put into that financial company of theirs, Religare, and there got into speculative investments, including in real estate, which ended up tanking, and then the whole thing blew up in their face. So that Malvinder and Shivinder rightly find themselves in jail; because although they received dodgy advice from GSD, but that certainly does not absolve them of their own part in facilitating and indeed leading this whole mess, both the financial mess and earlier at Ranbaxy the dodgy drugs thing. And GSD, unlike the Singh brothers, cunningly managed to extricate himself from this mess, he and his sons richer by many millions, and continues to enjoy his ill-gotten wealth, keeping at bay the many court cases against him (including those that pertain to Ranbaxy and Religare) by leveraging his religious clout, and by establishing and exploiting political connections over at India.

----------

Let me know if, basis your reading of the book, you believe I’m correct about these three points; and also if you think I’m mistaken about any of them, in which case please elaborate. I’m happy to correct my impression about this matter, as far as these three specifics, if it turns out any of it is factually incorrect.

And again, not for one moment am I defending Malvinder Singh’s role in producing shoddy drugs that endangered people’s health! Clearly there’s been some misunderstanding, either in how I may have worded my comments, or else in how you’ve parsed them at your end, if you’ve gone away thinking that, as you say, that I’m resorting to mental contortions in order to let Malvinder off the hook. Most emphatically I’m not doing that, why on earth would I?!