Eyewitness report shows Radha Soami Satsang Beas truly has two gurus now

New Drama begins...

Posted by: Sukhi | September 12, 2024 at 10:43 AM

There it is ladies and gentlemen, another bombshell. Gill went up on a state and (gasped) looked at people. This means that RSSB lied and Gill isn't just an administrator. This would not be the case had GSD been on the stage as well. That's because the theological rules are crystal clear: If the guru comes out on stage *with* the person he says shall succeed him upon death, then this means that the successor in waiting hasn't yet succeeded. However, if that successor in waiting *does* come out on a stage without the current guru, then this is a clear message to the worldwide sangat that the successor in waiting is actually the current guru, or that there are now 2 current gurus. In any case, it's prima facie evidence that the current guru lied to the sangat about the successor in waiting to be strictly an "administrator," a proclamation that's found..er...not sure where that proclamation is. Enough nonsense, everyone gets the point.

Gee, this Gill guy is sure getting a hard time here. Last week he was accused of being one of the principle parties at Ranbaxy who fiddled with their quality control.

Surely Tony White is working hard to corroborate his accusation against Gill. I wonder if has he contacted Katherine Eban or Dinesh Thakur.

Contacting Eban would be good, but seems to me that Thakur would be even better. Thakur worked at Ranbaxy and was deeply involved in pharma reform there. If anyone has input on Gill's involvement at Ranbaxy surely Thakur does.

Thakur can be contacted here:

https://dineshthakur.com/about-2/

Ask him about Gill. Maybe you'll find out that it was Gill, the young administrative assistant, and not Malvinder who screwed up Ranbaxy. If you're not content to just wildly speculate the worst about someone's integrity and leave it at that.

Posted by: sant64 | September 12, 2024 at 11:31 AM

Thakur wasn't there when Gill arrived at Ranbaxy. If you read, 'Bottle of Lies' you will find out everything about Malvinder which will leave absolutely no room for doubt or speculation.
Everyone knew what was going on, it's all in the book.

Posted by: Raw Vegan | September 12, 2024 at 11:59 AM

sant64, the RSSB secretary said that Gill would attend satsang with Dhillon, the current guru. That didn't happen, according to the WhatsApp message. Gill was at a satsang all by himself. So this is why the person who sent the message said that RSSB has two gurus now. It wasn't me that made that claim, it was someone who attended the Gill-only satsang.

Here's an excerpt from a news story that I quoted from in a previous post:
https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2024/09/lets-make-sense-of-the-strange-rssb-guru-succession-episode.html
----------------------------
Devender Kumar Sikri, secretary of the RSSB, said Gill would eventually be the Sant Satguru and will then have the authority of bestowing ‘Naam Daan’. “Till then, he will remain in attendance with Babaji (Dhillon) for the scheduled satsangs,” he said.

Posted by: Brian Hines | September 12, 2024 at 12:55 PM

Or possibly darshan is actually mass hypnosis done by anyone with enough power of suggestion .

Posted by: Donald | September 12, 2024 at 01:17 PM

Huzur, Maharaj, Babaji all these words these people throw around hold no meaning. How easily they put Huzur in front any name without merit, its kind of dissapointing.

Posted by: Neon | September 12, 2024 at 02:45 PM

@ Donald
If you realy want to know how mass hypnosis works have a look at this video
It is refreshing ...hahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ftTzHE6jXo

Posted by: um | September 12, 2024 at 03:07 PM

More news. Dera Beas reorganized it's chapter in Inida and neighboring country.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/chandigarh-news/dera-beas-reorganises-its-chapters-101726166503289.html

.

Posted by: Aam | September 12, 2024 at 06:18 PM

UM
I had a friend working for the US army
as a mass hypnotiser
He said hypnose is impossible than by auto hypnose
Everybody who come to attend will

he died recently
After discussing some I believe now that
hypnose is integrated in evolution for a direct connection our other levels of consciousness
and what normally happens is all a kind of miss-use
Brian will agree.
But that doesn't t take away one on a million REAL CONNECTIONS

As I proposed : Jill = Sawan but He doesn t know
and much stronger
But GSD has seen it - will not tell !
Read my lips

This like Kabir who sought Dharshan from a disciple
Nice to see this happening

777

Posted by: 777 | September 13, 2024 at 04:26 AM

Something went wrong
I wrote - I guess - what I shouldn't t say
and it was wiped
OK
Love U all

Posted by: 777 | September 13, 2024 at 04:29 AM

A Simple check to see if someone is a Sat Guru :
While observing His Darshan Dhyan
our consciousness at the 3rd eye level starts to itsce
and will °° elevate to the highest point of your body./ vibrate
This can go slowly
or as flash, increasing up to you can t hardly bear,
That(s why u see many close their eyes
the equivalent of using breaks in a car somewhat
I don t think one has to be initiated but I m sure
the 5 words serve also as regulators .

This is analogue to to story of
the high hatha yogi with 40 000 disciples
asking Sawan :"Let me see a tiny part of what U'r offering.
The man felt unconsciousness - he had no regulators
See the words as a kind of diodes each adapted
at one of the 5 Frequencies of consciousness that can be attained
My 2 cts

In the same way Gurus can have Dharshan from each other

This works even at great distances

777

Posted by: 777 | September 14, 2024 at 02:06 AM

@ 777

>> A Simple check to see if someone is a Sat Guru :
While observing His Darshan Dhyan our consciousness at the 3rd eye level starts to itsce and will °° elevate to the highest point of your body./ vibrate<<

That might well be an correct observation of what happens to you, but to write it down in a form that suggests, it happens to others, where others van be any number, is wrong, as the one that writes this has never had that experience or anything that remotely resembles what you wrote, nor any of the persons he came to know in the many years he was associated with this tradition, and sat several times in an conversation with the late MCS, eye to eye.

Hahahaha ... in one of these interviews he deeply sighed and said ..Why are you not more receptive.

Yes I also do believe that someone walked on water and yes I also believe that it is possible and yes I am not at all interested and or impressed but I do certainly know that it is something that is not available for many ..where many can be any number.

Posted by: um | September 14, 2024 at 03:43 AM

Anyway, . . you got the idea
If U like it, . . just ask 4 it

We can do a poll here

777

We had a Maroccan Lady here who helped cleaning
The second day
she said : "Who is that Mullah at the wall"
" JE PENSE QU A CA"

SO THE ITCHING TAKES MANY FORMS

777

Posted by: 777 | September 14, 2024 at 04:09 AM

@ 777

There is nothing wrong with you having these experiences.
The point is what you do with these experiences in the public domain.

I can't repeat it not often enough or to use his words "the mind needs a lot of hammering" that|:

Things [ experiences] are what they are
seldom what they look like [or are understood]

and ... many mystics, in different traditions had something to say about these inner experiences ...some went even that far as to label them as the prostitutes of the path.

Anyway that is up to you as you have these experiences and you are the one that has to give meaning and value to them,, and bear the consequences thereof.

let alone how they are presented or made to be seen in the public domain.

Posted by: um | September 14, 2024 at 04:30 AM

@um
Without reference to 777 whose comments I have not read, I wholeheartedly agree with you about experiences. The worst is to allow the mind to create visions which it does very easily out of the akash before the eyes below the Agni Chakra in Pind rather like higher dream states. I believe it is important to reject everything which is not divine, do not stray from the light into vision if one is fortunate enough to see it. I read that the light of the mind below Sahansdal Kanwal contains desires and rather than becoming bored with that lower light, bear in mind that just looking at it burns that light with the desires up. It sound a likely fact. Masters do give us hints from time to time to help sustain the long, often depressing boring work of drilling through the darkness of karmas as we burrow thorough them them up in meditation. I feel it is very important to study in particular Soamiji's and Tulsi Sahab's poetry to identify what to avoid on the upward journey. Our real joy should be in the fixed Darshan points of the Satguru within while also observing those particular markers that cannot be avoided and which alone denote the stages. I saw a letter to the Great Master from a gentleman proudly boasting that he had fully explored the length and breath of Sahansdal Kanwal, commenting on the architecture of buildings and so on. this the ultimate waste. Surely the point should be to ignore as much as possible and prioritise the ascent to reach the goal with least delay. Of course as a beginner I can only speculate if one can actually make such decisions within or whether the decision making ability of the mind is actually asleep at that point. All my studies may be in vain, if so but I hope the intention to remain Guru focussed will remain at that time when I am lucky enough to enter those realms.

Posted by: Chiroo | September 15, 2024 at 12:38 PM

You are getting darshan from a fake ass crook , the character of kaal, who himself is initiating you into a satanic mantra. The first word is jot nirunjan, light of the devil, the light bringer, Lucifer. The last name is satnam (similar to satan). Its simple, you are worshipping the devil , the path of the masters is the path on a journey to Lucifer - the wanna be fake god who wants to be higher than god. Jaspreet and gurinder are both clueless clowns, who literally know nothing about god way because they are the masters of kaal who wants them to manipulate and confuse and blind sangat.

Posted by: Kranvir | September 15, 2024 at 01:21 PM

@Chiroo
I have written already 4 answers and deleted them before sending, Although I stand behind what I wanted to write, I realize that I should not do it. These things can be better put before you by a person you can see in the eyes when talking.

That said the following sentence brought back to my memory a thing he often said:

>> Of course as a beginner I can only speculate if one can actually make such decisions within or whether the decision making ability of the mind is actually asleep at that point. <<

You are not allowed to strain that far away that you cannot be brought back to the path
and
It is all in his hands.

Blessed are those that can believe, the simple of heart and not "blessed" with an analitcal [western] mind

Posted by: um | September 15, 2024 at 01:46 PM

@Kranvir.
The point is not to worship the deities but to know where you are on the upward ascent. That is why the panch nam naming the ruler of each stage is so useful. It is about knowing where you are and how to pass through it with the help of your Satguru who is aiding you. You still have the free will to give in to distractions on the way but knowing the stages assists you to only travel the necessary path and not get sidelined into attractons. If you want to go to Delhi from London it is best to know that you have to change to a different flight at Frankfurt. That is no endorsement of the city itself. As to Gurinder it is my belief he is only a manager as Maharaj Charan Singh IMO had no worthy successor but had to keep the institution going for the sake of dependents. As that institution declines real seekers will not be attracted and there seems to be evidence that Maharaji's Western disciples largely rejecting Gurinder and left the RSSB institution, a natural and more kind and more safe process than an immediate shutdown. As Kabir was told by Kal "Ok then, set up your satsang but one day when it is fat, overblown, rich like a cow ready for slaughter I will take it and I will wear a Turban bigger than yours!" Nevertheless Maharaji honors and takes care of all those given Nam by Gurinder, just as Baba Sawan Singh honours all those intitiated by Kirpal Singh and his offshoots.

Posted by: Chiro | September 16, 2024 at 10:27 AM

@ Chiro

Just find out what the different masters said at the onset of their service.
The last one said that if plants get to much sun and water etc the grow to fast and they cannot uphold themselves and he said that the community was like that plant.
And lo and behold ..what happened?? .... in Europe the growth of the sangat almost came to a still stand.and most people that frequent the gatherings are immigrated Indians.

Mind you .. more europeans, americans etc would mean, more visitors, more buildings more housing for sevadars etc etc. and the place is already for decades screaming for every yard of land to expand.

Posted by: um | September 16, 2024 at 11:35 AM

@um "And lo and behold ..what happened?? .... in Europe the growth of the sangat almost came to a still stand and most people that frequent the gatherings are immigrated Indians." Why? because of Gurinder's vicious, brutal and despotic attack on the Western sangats after his appointment. Maharaji respected the right of countries to their native people, He often told the story of the Indian child stolen for adoption abroad and how when it found it was Indian deserted even his wife and children to return to India. Maharaji had an English representative in England, a German in Germany and so one. Gurinder the Shaitan demolished every single Western sangat and handed it over to Indian immigrant control, if possible by his own family members or perhaps a Western crony of his here and there. RSSB is now an Indian organisation in which Western disciples, if they are foolish enough to subscribe to it, are second class citizens in RSSB. Look at the endless stream of mainly junk videos emanating from RSSB commentators and the official videos of Gurinder himself, for example Modi's electioneering visit (which MCS would have been totally against!). Have you ever seen a Western face in any of them? In my country every single Western disciple left RSSB over Gurinder's appalling behaviour, his seeming allergy to giving satsang, his rich list lifestyle in the former mansions of the Duke of Bedford in England, holidays on beaches full of semi-naked women and the rivers of Bani drying up from the Dera. It is shocking to hear he sits on the stage while a preacher does his job for him. You call yourself a Guru when you can't even give Satsang? I could go on. In the immortal words of James Bean on RSSB "Into the mouth of Kal!"

Posted by: Chiro | September 17, 2024 at 02:40 AM

@ Chiro

It pains me to read how the events after 1990 have affected you.

It is in my DNA, education, fate or whatever that if something was not to my liking or understanding, to just turn my back on it and walk away.

Personally I had the most problems with the change in atmosphere in the community, the newly chosen sevadars and the way how they comported themselves. I jokingly made the comparison with what happened in the movie "The last emperor" . In that movie the colorful charismatic mandarins etc are replaced by "apparatchiks" all dressed up in green uniforms.

My personality is such that it does not fits well in such an uniform

That said .. china has developed into a modern state ... hahahaha

Posted by: um | September 17, 2024 at 03:54 AM

@ Chiro

I have been a close witness of the birth and growth of Sant Mat in Europe and mdo remember it with great pleasure and gratituded as it it has enriched my life in great measure.

Being part of it I came to into contact with so many people, idea's etc etc I never had any knowledge of.before.

As much as spirituality etc is part oif the daily life in India so few it was in the world I grew up. Divine matters so to say were the affairs of the priests.

Tn some very small niches there was knowledge about theosophy, Rosicrucians, free masonerty but the public at large had no knowledge about it .. they would not even read the Bible ...they would go to church and do some prayer for the welfare of themselves and those near and dear.

Hahaha most parts of the world beyond your own country and europe was still a part of the world were only explorers would go and missionaries to bring the good news ....hahaha

How much has changed over time.

Posted by: um | September 17, 2024 at 04:21 AM

@ Chiro

As I wrote, by nature and/or education, from childhood on people were never criticized at home ... nor praised either ...we did mind our own biussiness , so to say

Later I was advised by the late MCS ..to perform my roles in life without getting emotionally involved in those ties or the persons involved.

That advice to me many years to properly understand, appreciate its meaning an value and incorporate it in my own life ... but .. it was not that simple to say the least ... hahaha ... much coffee had to be ingested and many a "cam down" admonishment from my dear late friend ..by nature i have endowed with an fiery mind

Then I imbued the many stories Maharaj Ji would tell and how he dealt with criticism and how he advised people ... all against the background of karma

So I never spoke a word pro or contra anybody that occupied the role of guru and found it to be in my own best interest to do so. That said I never had problems in sharing what my personal feelings and thoughts were into these gurus as they just would say something of me and how I look into the world.

He said never to speak badly about anybody certainly not that were seen as gurus, saints or whatever and if one had to, one better spoke ill of one's mother so that one's good karma could flow to her ... hahaha

Whether these [indian] things are true or not doesn't matter much but psychological seen what he said was of great educational value as to how walk through life.

I know .. the path of the saints is not meant for these things but that is just what I got from it.

Posted by: um | September 17, 2024 at 05:34 AM

@ Chiro

And to finish my reaction:

Having come to ingest the teachings of the Saints by means of this particular practice and teaching and trying to live by it ..trying !!! .... I came to understand that facts can be attributed many different meanings and values as scientificaly is discussed by people like Metzinger in his work of the blind and the elefant.

Not only from outside or inside can be differently belooked upon these facts you write about but on both sides there too are great differences.

I want to be fair to you and honor your straight forward expression of your thoughts and feelings, and I have no problem to back them up but for my own well being I have chosen to stand back and have everything unfold by itself.

Even from within the narrative itself what is unfolding can have an complete other meaning and value... I can look no further than my own interest but it is quite possible that whatever is unfolding there, in the longer runh, is the best for all,

Maharaji used to say often if there is something in the congregation that irks you than don't go there. Association with others etc can be of great help but if it is not by all means do not go there ... to live a sant mat way of live nobody and nothing uis needed

Again there is nothing wrong with what you see and write. it is just a matter of how to handle it that can be different from person to person.

Posted by: um | September 17, 2024 at 07:10 AM

@um
Before I answer your last I am posting the response to one of your previous posts which I was composing as you were composing your post above:
"Blessed are those that can believe, the simple of heart and not "blessed" with an analytical [western] mind."
Yes, I want to tell you of the origin of the 'Western Mind' as we know it today. Its birth was a reaction to Catholicism, a Catholicism which despite all its faults was full of love and devotion, both of those qualities were banned by the second Vatican Council in which the title 'Church of God' was retitled 'Church Of The World.' How did this ‘Western Mind’ in this context arise? It arose through early largely hidden and subversive Semitic attacks on the church of the kind which created most of our isms; Liberalism, Freemasonry, Communism, Zionism, Marxism, Atheism, Cultural Marxism, Feminism, Bio-Leninism, and most recently Wokeness, so-called human rights and more. Some of it a reaction to Church persecution of what it decided were heretics, but in the main it was and still is fundamentally a war against God. As the understanding of what the Christian West calls Satan, or that aspect of Kal, does not exist in Indian spirituality, it needs a little understanding of the Western consciousness to grasp how the road to ruin started, and why it has brought down all the Catholic countries, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal’s spirituality; Ireland just in the last couple of decades. How within probably the next twenty years Indian spirituality will be destroyed on the mass scale which you were privileged to enjoy in your youth. A holy nation which produced men fit to become true Masters, to be replaced with what became after the war against God was won (Nietzsche, ‘God is Dead!”) Western materialism. The infection spreads fast especially through technology including pornography. My mother once said "If men go bad it is not necessarily a loss for a civilisation, but if women go bad that civilisation will collapse because they raise the children. That is what we are now seeing in India as the Sari is rejected for jeans, feminism is becoming rampant, and men and the family are being undermined by ‘Modern progressive thinking and Women’s rights’ (something Gurinder’s Dera is campaigning for). A book on this non-spiritual subject is actually included in the RSSB book list." So I offer this video by a friend of mine of the collapse from a Western spiritual perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDU4tkSuclo
The infection is spreading fast within Western and educated Indian circles as we speak inside sant Mat. To such a mind the teachings of the Sants, especially Tulsi Sahab and Soamiji Maharaj are unacceptable, primitive, 15th century thinking. This movement rife in the universities rejects the notion of the existence of God, spiritual regions, lords of those regions. The notion that there is a Kal bhagwan, with an individual soul and an individual being. I predict that the birth of the new atheism will come out of the western intellectuals and academics, European and Indian educated, of the Radha Soami Tradition. These thinkers want to drag Sant Mat towards such western understandings as the existence of powers and levels of consciousness rather than of divine beings and spiritual regions. Everything they don’t like can be explained away as delusions and auto-suggestion. So one wonders if a satsangi from Outer Mongolia in their meditation observes a known landmark within, or a being for example like Saraswati or Lakshmi, or if they are dozing off Shakti at the throat center, figures that they had not personally even have heard of before, that no one suggested to them, and they had not or read about, how will the new thinkers explain that? They will say but everything below a certain stage is illusion, but then the door infront of them is also illusion, but they can admit to seeing it. Of course the new atheism will have a substantial claim that the ultimate Radhsoami is formless and a power, not a being. But there is the conundrum that both Tulsi and Soamiji claimed to have done puja and arti at the feet of something called Radhasoami. There is a difference between story telling and lies. We know stories are fiction, but if stated events, structures like crystal palaces, or divine beings which the Sants have claimed to see within like Sat Purush are not true, that makes the Sants liars. Anyway, imo the problem with the central tenet of modern Western thinking is that the deconstruction of everything leads inevitably to the existence of one big black hole of nothing.

Posted by: Chiro | September 17, 2024 at 12:11 PM

@chico , don't take this personally , but your totally brainwashed into the rssb garbage, that even gurinder, the villain doesn't even believe. Your in his spell, and can't see beyond the walls that rssb has put around you. Even gurinder himself, surprisingly, said burn all the rssb books . You been sold a story and given a false promise and no one is coming to save you at death. Why do you think gurinder, the light demon, comes so readily to take you back to the belly of the beast? Ask yourself what you are doing here right now, and why are you here back in this hell planet ? You were mislead by entities who said they would help you , but took full advantage, and fed you false beliefs and lies. Give up rssb shitty beliefs and live your own life, enjoy, and love your real family , not the fake brothers and sisters in rssb who have egos nearly as big as that crook gurinder and jaspreet.

Posted by: Kranvir | September 17, 2024 at 12:54 PM

@ Chiro

I am exhausted after having listened to the exposition in the video.
It was a barrage of words, concepts. Spoken in an other language and heavily accented made quite some work.

I feel that I managed to grasp the central theme that runs through it like a red wire.

It is so much, so quick that i am knocked out and not able to frame even the beginning of an reaction.

I am not used to focus on powers, real or unreal, ruling the universe. As the son of an farmers son, i am raised to focus on what is available in the world close to the place where we live .. physically, mentally, philosophically spiritually farmers life.

I have to see if what I heard can be digested and brought down to that simple level so that i can have a closer look on it.

I really deserve a good cup of coffee now

Posted by: um | September 17, 2024 at 01:29 PM

@um "Even from within the narrative itself what is unfolding can have an complete other meaning and value... I can look no further than my own interest but it is quite possible that whatever is unfolding there, in the longer run, is the best for all."
Absolutely, imo Gurinder is carrying out the work assigned to him by his Satguru and doing so with a great success. Faced with the Mauj of Sat Purush denying Him a successor, and Kal calling in his cards on the deal he originally made with Kabir "Ok then, start your satsang, but when it is overblown and rich and fat like a cow ready for slaughter I will take it, and I will wear a turban bigger than yours!" Maharaji had no choice but to allow events to unfold. We now have Kal's man doing Kal's work (and still with the guarantee as an initiate of reaching Radhasoami Dham and complete spiritual liberation) while at the same time carrying out the will of his Master to destroy the RSSB, but slowly enough for all the surviving dependent pensioner sewadars of Great Master, Sardar Bahadur and Maharji Himself to die off in comfort and peace with a roof over their heads. And the bonus being that he is creating an ashram that no true seeker in their right mind would have anything to do with, ergo they are all seeking elsewhere leaving RSSB to a generation of up and coming migratory, materialistic Indians flying in vast waves like locusts to feed on the dying carcass of the West. All this only increases my faith in Maharaji.

Posted by: Chiro | September 18, 2024 at 01:59 AM

@ Chiro

As I wrote in the other post just a moment ago the transformation will not be digested by all in the same way.

Those that enjoyed what I call the charismatic rule of the mandarins, will not be happy to say the least and others that in their perception "suffered" under that rule or could not spread their wings their way, are happy now

Again, seen from within the narrative, what is unfolding is what you describe ..BUT ... that need not to be the case ... it can well be something else.

For that reason, I do not want to jump to any conclusion and wait to see how things develop.

Life in society and culture worldwide is changing at a rapid rate and without it being clear what the forces are that create these tsunamis.

Within the circle of near and dear I compare it with a cinema in fire or one were some one just jelled "fire". In those situations the best and first thing to do is to stay out ow the way of the masses. Stand with the back to the closest wall in order not to be tremble by the masses in stampede.

What is going on with religions in general and spiritual movements in particular is just part of what is going on

Posted by: um | September 18, 2024 at 02:40 AM

@CHIRO

It just came to my mind that even the late MCS and his predecessors were surrounded by the elite of those day ..the OLD MONEY.

I do not know how it is everywhere but the old money had generations to grow slowly and find ways how to deal with it. What created the OLD ORDER

We live in the time of the "NOUVEAU RICHE" the new elite, the new rich and they lhave not get found ways to properly deal with their wealth so they tend to run around like peacocks

Thw succesor of the late MCS , a man of his time, has surrounded himself with the new "Nobility" ...being the CEO's of companies etc

hahaha ,,, the new kings, dukes, earls etc from silico valley etc etc etc.

Posted by: um | September 18, 2024 at 02:56 AM

GSD is tired.

Posted by: Uncomplicated | September 28, 2024 at 12:36 AM

GURINDER SINGH DHILLON IS FINISHED EXPOSED, RIDDICULED AND EMBARRASSED.

HE HAD NO OPTION BUT TO GO BEFORE THE RADHA SOAMI CULT WAS TOTALLY DESTROYED FOREVER.

THAT SAID ANOTHER NEW NUTJOB HAS NOW BEEN GIVEN THE JOB JASSDEEP SINGH ANOTHER BABA WHO NOW WANTS TO PLAY GOD MAN.

DOESN'T GET ANY LOONIER, COME ON WAKE UP STOP FOLLOWING THESES CLOWNS

Posted by: Trez | October 02, 2024 at 12:45 PM

Respected Sir Hines,
Sir you are a great person. I have a humble request that do not always write negative concocted stories related to our Master BaBaJi Gurinder Singh Dhillon MaharaJ Ji, as it hurts heavy in my heart. BaBaJi is my Saviour. I can die for BaBaJi right now.Hope you will consider my feelings. Best Regards Vikas Badhan

Posted by: Vikas Badhan | November 30, 2024 at 08:24 AM

The Character of Gurinder Singh Dhillon: Successor of Charan Singh

Part of the significance of the guru in Sant Mat is their refreshment of the teachings in every generation, maintaining its vitality and essential character. While the outer expression of the teaching may change with the times, its methods, philosophy and morality, remains inviolate under the care of one who has realized the teachings to a highly advanced degree. Where this is not the case, over the course of generations of gurus in a given lineage, the teachings change, the morality changes, core values of the mystic tradition are altogether changed, indicating we are no longer dealing with spiritual authenticity, to coin David Lane’s phrase. At first this may be subtle but it doesn’t necessarily take long for that subtlety to give way to overt transformation of defining elements of the Sant Mat teachings.

Gurinder Singh, in his inaugural address on June 10th, 1990, stated, “I had come to the Dera on leave for a month-and-a-half to attend to some personal affairs and to spend as much time as possible at the feet of Hazur Maharaj Ji. In common with the Sangat, I could never imagine that He would leave us so suddenly nor, even in my dreams, could I ever think that the burden of such a heavy responsibility would be thrown on my shoulders by Hazur Maharaj Ji.” In other words, as with his predecessor, he was entirely uninformed of his assignment prior to the passing of Charan Singh. The significance of this unique transmission of the seat of the guru, purely on the basis of documentation, no verbal or spiritual forewarning, was discussed in the relevant chapter. I would again submit though, that the lack of any instruction or direct command from the predecessor guru belies the very essence of the path, based as it is on firsthand experience and direct contact with a living spiritual Master.

In the course of his long ministry, Gurinder Singh has not published a single book, pamphlet or article in his own name, which makes fully apprehending his approach to the teaching hard to assess unless one takes notes on his satsangs, etc. Furthermore, until recently there were no official videos or vocal recordings of any of his talks, though in the last few years, in the Covid period, there are regular videos that have been published of questions and answers. I have personally exposed myself only to a tiny portion of this new material.

For a number of years, Radhasoami Satsang Beas firmly discouraged discussion of Sant Mat on internet forums. Eventually, this policy was relaxed in the face of the fact that it was occurring in any case. In order to understand Gurinder Singh’s character and teachings, one has to turn to these reports of disciples who leave accounts in one internet forum or another. Though this does not provide the kind of direct referencing that recordings or published writings could provide, in attempting to understand Gurinder Singh and his teaching this is the best information available. Reviewing these accounts there are consistent themes that emerge in several areas. These fall into three categories: 1) Financial 2) Altering key teachings and philosophy 3) Flirtatiousness and sexual innuendo. There is more, but these are the key points addressed.

1) Financial:
In the last several years, Gurinder Singh has become more widely known in India due to a financial scandal associated with two members of his family, Malvinder and Shivinder Singh, now in serious legal trouble, and directly connecting to extensive, massive loans extended to Gurinder Singh, his wife, since deceased, and sons. Separately, a criminal complaint has also been filed by a film producer who extended $1.25 million U.S. in loans to Gurinder Singh for cancer treatment and allied expenses that have remained unpaid. Most recently, Gurinder Singh has sought exception from filing income tax returns telling the Delhi High Court that it contained 'personal information' and that this was not an 'appropriate stage' to produce such documents. I am not going to belabour the details of these financial issues as none have been fully adjudicated.

2) Altering Key Teachings:
The following accounts from online sources take us several layers further into issues of interest and concern with regard to Gurinder Singh. First, an account by an initiate of Charan Singh, offering his notes on a discussion with Gurinder Singh in England. While not definitive as they are just outlines, they tend to indicate a complete alteration of the teachings to their very core.

"I was at Haynes park on the Sunday before the UK national satsang.
I went on the mic and had what can only be described as a most intriguing conversation with the Baba of RSSB. The exchange between us went on for approximately 20 minutes.
This is what he stated clearly in that conversation:

(1) You are right, there is no journey because you are already there and you just have to realise it.
(2) You are correct in saying there are no regions.
(3) I have never read the Sar Bachan and what it states there is just a story, not literal. None of those regions or the lords of the regions exist.
(4) There is only the ONE. There is no individual soul. So, you don't actually merge back. You are already there.
(5) Don't focus on the physical master. I am only here to clarify. I am just a human being like you. I cannot forgive sins. I cannot erase karmas.
(6) Meditation just means to quieten the mind and turn inwards and let go and realize who you are…

On the Sunday of the national satsang he said "There is nothing. What will you get by coming here? Nothing"

Each of these comments, presuming they represent a reasonably accurate version of the conversation, indicate fundamental alterations to the Sant Mat teachings, having more in common with advaitist philosophy, which asserts that realization is our inherent, present time state and that we simply need to clear all that stands in the way of fully becoming identified with our true nature. In advaitism, the jiva, or individual soul, is regarded as an illusion.

Points two, three and five represent enormous deviations from core Sant mat teachings where, at the very time of initiation, the aspirant is given the major features and names associated with the five grand divisions of creation. Guru Nanak in Jap Ji, Tulsi Saheb, Soami Ji, all repeatedly describe the different spiritual regions through which the initiate passes in the spiritual journey. Is Gurinder Singh denying the transcendentalism that is a key feature of Sant Mat teachings?

Is he further denying the significance of satsang, one of the cardinal pillars of Sant Mat, when he says, “What will you get by coming here? Nothing"

The role of the guru we are told by him is to “clarify”. This stunning diminishment of the nature of the guru in Sant Mat contradicts every Sant writing that exists. It’s quite likely that this significant alteration of the guru’s role and status is appreciated by some, but that does not change the fact that it represents a complete abandonment of Sant Mat’s central value: the association with a highly advanced or God-realized Saint who teaches Surat Shabd yoga. A Sant is considered, in the traditions of Sant mat, to be a living embodiment of the Godhead, a conscious co-worker of the Divine Plan, who teaches the necessity of individual spiritual awakening through certain meditative practices.

In point five he denies the guru’s ability to erase karma, one of the most fundamental aspects of the guru’s role in Sant Mat. In another paper I present this very point: “One of the cardinal functions of a Sant, also termed Sat Guru or Sant Sat Guru, pertains to the subject of karma. The term karma refers to the endless cycle of action and reaction where every action in thought, word and deed, requires a consequent reaction. According to Sant mat, without emptying the vessel of karmas accumulated through many, many lives, there can be no spiritual liberation, for the soul remains ever bound to the karmic wheel.

Karma is the engine that drives reincarnation. At the end of life, the unfulfilled karmas become a part of the great storehouse that necessitates rebirth for their further expression. The role of the Living Master is to either resolve or absolve through his own grace, sympathy and suffering, a major portion of the accumulated karma of the spiritual aspirant.”

Therefore, a guru that is entirely liberated from the chains of karma plays a critical and central role in Sant Mat, and is regarded as an absolute prerequisite on the path of spiritual liberation, specifically due to his capacity to absolve the initiates karma. Here it is being reported that Gurinder Singh flatly denies this. I myself noted a ‘question and answer’ video where Gurinder Singh made this precise point, that everyone has to go through their own karma and the Master does not take on people’s karma.

Baba Jaimal Singh in his letters to Baba Sawan Singh writes, “When He (the Satguru) initiates him into the secret of the five Shabds, numerous karmas are wiped off.”

Baba Sawan Singh tells a story in a letter to Western disciples, in which Baba Jaimal Singh at first refuses to initiate someone due to their karmas, and when he finally agrees suffers ten days of illness. He adds, “No initiation is possible without payment of karmic debt.”

From a video of GSD:
20:05 Q: Baba Ji, my second question is that we have often heard from our elders, that when a true Master grants initiation to someone then he takes over his karmic account from Kal.
GSD: Have you heard something like this in my satsang? Q: No, Baba ji. GSD: So then? I tell you this – You will have to account for your every action. This is mere talk, do not fall prey to these FALSE assurances. The truth about this world is that there is nothing free here. You will have to account for every single thing. You will have to account for every single breath.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjFQ8r0GlT0&list=PL9Zg64loGCGCFo5VXVb0KJrbiPhmOnGkK
Here’s a few “false assurances”:
Soami ji: Take refuge in the Master, dear soul,
And he will pay your karmic toll.
(Sar Bachan Poetry – RSSB 2002 – page 71.
Baba Jaimal Singh: “When he initiates him into the secret of the Five Shabds, numerous karmas are wiped off, but whatever he has to receive or whatever he has to pay is not cancelled.” Spiritual Letters – letter 13. (very old edition that included Spiritual Gems) In other words, Sanchit karmas are to some extent wiped off, Pralabdh karmas are left alone.
“The disciples of Saints do not have to be born again...Only the suffering due to those karmas that have to be worked off will remain to be undergone. The rest will be FORGIVEN.” Baba Jaimal Singh Letter 7
Baba Sawan Singh: After telling a story regarding Baba Jaimal Singh accepting for initiation someone with “an enormous amount of ugly karma” and suffering as a result he writes: “But no initiation is possible without payment of karmic debt. People may be thinking Saints live a life of ease.” Letter 24 Spiritual Gems

“The escape from karma lies in the protection afforded by Saints…The reserve actions Saints partly take upon themselves and partly are undergone by the devotee, as the Saints think proper.” Letter 20 Spiritual Gems

Point 6 is an exceptionally vague explanation for the purpose of meditation and has nothing whatsoever to do with the practice of Surat Shabd yoga, the method of the Masters of Sant Mat, and their oft-repeated assertions as to the necessity and purpose of spiritual practice: self-knowledge and God-realization. Indeed, Gurinder Singh’s changes to the teaching are so drastic that some older Beas disciples have dubbed it, Sant Mat 2.0. Some people may find it charming that he is demythologizing the Guru as well as the spiritual journey. That may better suit their personal preferences, however, in reality it should be viewed with extreme caution and skepticism as it is wholly at variance with the centuries old spiritual school from which Gurinder Singh has emerged.

3. Flirtation and Sexual Innuendo:
Gurinder Singh has been repeatedly cited by Charan Singh initiates and aspirants for ribald comments, swearing, and clear indications that his moral character is completely out of alignment with another key concept in Sant mat, that the spiritual Master is liberated from lust, greed, anger, attachment and egoism.

This is from a letter sent to me by a Charan Singh initiate, who visited Dera for the first time in October 2017:
“I was shocked to hear Gurinder steer a discussion about Nutrition in the Q & A session in our Western group to making sexual jokes, “You sure like butts, huh? Do you still like your wife’s butt?” The guy answered, embarrassed, and said he was almost sixty-nine and no longer interested in butts. Gurinder countered by asking him if he knew what a sixty-nine was! I seemed to be the only one shocked, because half of the mixed group were giggling and laughing. When I reported it, I took a lot of flack, and the comments were drawn out from all sides trying to make ME look like a dirty old man, instead of Gurinder. It took about six months for me to recover, but thirty years of my RSSB loyalty went up in smoke in that single split second of hearing from the guru jokes about butts and 69’s.”

3. This is from a popular blog that has a section dedicated to discussion of Radhasoami Beas:
“In 2013 I visited Dera for the first time and made four more visits following that. My last visit was December 2017. Not sure if you have heard reports from other Satsangis regarding the 'Christmas' session last year, but it was appalling.
Gurinder’s comments and behavior during evening Satsang with the westerners went from somewhat off color to completely inappropriate. He bragged about flying around in his new helicopter and having his own private jet that allows him to avoid waiting in lines (among other luxuries). He asked us, ‘Who wants to wait in lines?’.
The worst part of the session began when his constant teasing and joking started revolving around bathroom jokes, nudity and how he couldn’t stop himself from looking at all the pretty girls.
He said, ‘_____, (a westerner who was a satsang sevadar), is always admonishing me not to make this sort of comment, because of the reputation many of the Baba’s in India have, but I just can’t help myself.’ He said beauty is to be admired. He even joked at one point that he was looking forward to his next trip to Ibiza and that he couldn’t wait to see the naked women on the beach.
He said it as a joke but it was still nauseating.
One evening in particular the same sevadar became very upset with Baba Ji when he made another bathroom joke about flushing the toilet and actually used the word "sh*t". He covered his mouth after he said it as if it were a slip of the tongue. Half the audience laughed and half looked shocked. The sevadar looked furious.
I used to believe Gurinder Singh was a Sat Guru and I felt great affection for him but after having spent several sessions in his company, my faith has been challenged by cold hard facts. There are so many more stories to tell... not enough time in this one email but it truly is a sham.”
4. These are my own notes from a satsang I attended at the RSSB centre in Surrey, BC.

One lady talked in Punjabi and Baba ji was looking down and to the side where she was speaking, then suddenly turned and looked directly at the camera and said, "I think she is flirting with me".

One lady said, “I love you SO, SO, SO MUCH!” He remarked humorously, “I have that effect on people.”" She then said, “You’re SO, SO, SO BEAUTIFUL. I love when you touch your moustache or your beard, etc., etc.” He tilted his head to the side and put his finger on the side of his face as if to joke, “Aren’t I cute”. Then she said, “I had a dream of you...” He had a fleeting expression of “Oh, this could get creepy” and in context it was a little cringeworthy.

5. This is a short account from an online discussion group by a non-initiate in England, with many RSSB initiate family members, who often attend’s Gurinder Singh’s talks when he comes there.

“Gugu (Gurinder Singh) has a habit & tendency to ‘soft’ flirt with young women during Q&A’s. Don't get me wrong, in any other context it probably would seem "charming" or funny. To me, I find it “creepy”. I don't mean in ANY WAY to equate him with those who would be considered sexual abusers in any context. However, I personally find the comments overtly and obviously inappropriate - even did so when I was a 100% devotee, though I didn't question it too much then. Just felt uneasy.

He often makes comments like ‘if only I was 20 years younger’ sort of thing, when talking to young women.”

6) Another Indo-English writer says the same thing in a post on Church of the Churchless Blog: “Further Baba has a habit of making sexual innuendos and act all lively when young girls get up to ask him questions.”

7. The following is a disturbing account from the Church of the Churchless blog, where Gurinder Singh gives dangerous advice to regarding a woman reporting incest. It is the fourth person whose comments affirm Gurinder’s tendency to flirtation.

“I, however, wish to relate the incident … which was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. It was in 2013, at the Haynes Park, UK international satsang weekend. The audience numbering maybe 1,500-ish people were seated on folding chairs, in a very large tent, on the grounds of the estate. This is what I observed first hand:

A succession of young, pretty Indian girls came to the mic, one after the other, for Q&A. There was Baba ji’s usual, flirty and lame attempts at cleverness, and the giggly, giddy responses from the girls, despite the call for serious, spiritual questions only.

Then came an Indian woman in western dress, mid-to-late 30s. She was crying. She proceeded to tell BBJ (and all of us) that her husband was sexually molesting their daughter. The woman couldn’t leave the house to go to work because the daughter feared being left alone in the house with the father.

‘What shall I do, Baba?’ she tearfully asked. ‘Should I go to the authorities?’
‘No’ replied the guru. ‘These things are better handled by being more loving and affectionate to your husband.’ (yuck!!) ‘Don’t involve the authorities in a family matter, blah, blah, blah…’

In that moment BBJ made himself an accessory to a crime by advising the mother to remain silent. … BBJ also made every person in the room, who heard this disclosure of criminal child abuse, an accessory after the fact.”

8) Finally, I will give a link here to excerpts from a book by a woman that was closely associated with Gurinder Singh offering a number of personal anecdotes that she characterizes as indicating he was “impulsive and immature”, and a stunning story of him grotesquely humiliating her in front of newlyweds and their families. It is in a format that doesn’t allow me to easily add quotes so I am simply providing the link here for those who would like to read the detailed excerpts. The book itself is available on Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/yz9mc2nd

These remarks coming from a number of RSSB related individuals as well as media sources, paint a picture that is far, far removed from the image of the high morality and impeccable character associated with the concept of the Sat Guru in Sant mat. It also indicates that even if he is initiating into the correct method of spiritual practice, his actual teaching regarding Sant mat philosophy and method differs markedly from that of his predecessors. It was my contention in Crisis and Renewal, that the spiritual authenticity of a given lineage informs and refreshes the vitality of the teachings in every generation. When this chain is broken, under one circumstance or another, alterations occur that at first may be subtle and difficult to notice, until one day, despite common verbiage and practices, the seat of the guru is for all intents and purposes empty and the teaching offered is quite changed in its essential character. The earnest seeker is then faced with disillusionment and subsequent confusion, thus delaying their spiritual journey and sometimes crushing their aspiration, a great loss in this short, precious, rare opportunity of life.

The Character of Gurinder Singh Dhillon: Successor of Charan Singh

Part of the significance of the guru in Sant Mat is their refreshment of the teachings in every generation, maintaining its vitality and essential character. While the outer expression of the teaching may change with the times, its methods, philosophy and morality, remains inviolate under the care of one who has realized the teachings to a highly advanced degree. Where this is not the case, over the course of generations of gurus in a given lineage, the teachings change, the morality changes, core values of the mystic tradition are altogether changed, indicating we are no longer dealing with spiritual authenticity, to coin David Lane’s phrase. At first this may be subtle but it doesn’t necessarily take long for that subtlety to give way to overt transformation of defining elements of the Sant Mat teachings.

In the chapter, Problems of Framing, I wrote, “It follows that that a guru who is not fully God-realized will incarnate his own particular point of view, corrupting the spirit and form of the teaching to a lesser or greater extent.” Whether God-realized or not, there are fundamentals of Sant Mat teachings and even more, basic expectations of human behaviour. Both are gone with the wind in the following accounts.

In our discussion of Charan Singh’s ascension to the Beas guru gaddi, we learn that he was wholly uninformed of his succession prior to the passing of his predecessor, Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh. His succession was entirely based on a will that he learned of on his arrival at Beas after Jagat Singh’s passing. There was no verbal or spiritual forewarning as evidenced by his severe shock, dramatic reaction to the news of his guruship. We learned that Charan Singh had very little interest in meditation prior to his guruship, had not read a single book related to the teachings, and required tutoring after his ascension in order to understand the philosophy of Sant Mat. At the time of his inauguration he stated, “I wish to tell the sangat quite frankly that I do not make any claims whatsoever to spiritual attainments.” He also put the responsibility for the whole matter on the sangat.

It is difficult to understate the uniqueness of these statements. Reference to spiritual attainments would have been wholly unnecessary and therefore his vigorous and firm disavowal is striking. Guru makes the sangat, sangat does not make the guru. Even late into his ministry, Charan Singh, who made firm efforts to escape the position in its early days, regarded his guruship as having been forced upon him and described struggling with sleep and meditation.

So, what of his successor, “Baba” Gurinder Singh, who ascended to the Beas guruship in 1990. Gurinder Singh, in his inaugural address on June 10th, 1990, stated, “I had come to the Dera on leave for a month-and-a-half to attend to some personal affairs and to spend as much time as possible at the feet of Hazur Maharaj Ji. In common with the Sangat, I could never imagine that He would leave us so suddenly nor, even in my dreams, could I ever think that the burden of such a heavy responsibility would be thrown on my shoulders by Hazur Maharaj Ji.” In other words, as with his predecessor, he was entirely uninformed of his assignment prior to the passing of Charan Singh. The significance of this unique transmission of the seat of the guru, purely on the basis of documentation, no verbal or spiritual forewarning, was discussed in the relevant chapter. I would again submit though, that the lack of any instruction or direct command from the predecessor guru belies the very essence of the path, based as it is on firsthand experience and direct contact with a living spiritual Master.