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August 30, 2024

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I hope I have interpreted what Metzinger (and Brian) is saying and not according to my prejudices. Metzinger says that ordinary consciousness is a nonconceptual mode of knowing one's inner model of reality, and that this way of knowing is contracted into an ego and falsely experienced as direct and immediate.

It all fits in with my understanding where we fail to see by direct experience of what is, instead replacing reality with a conceptual model that has become so reliable that we are unable to experience it as a model.

This, as I see it is equal to the Buddhist (mostly Zen/Chan Buddhism) statement that ‘reality is the way things are prior to conceptualisation’. It also reflects writers like Joan Toliffson where she talks about ‘present moment awareness’ and being here now’.

How to drop or see this habit of overlaying present moment awareness with what Metzinger calls contraction into ego, is, as far as I can see the meditations of Zen and Chan Buddhism. I’ll be interested to see later where Metzinger talks about to have a "transparent self-model" -- that is, a conscious model of yourself as a whole.

“There's a lot to unpack here”


You can say that again! …To be frank, I didn’t actually get this post. Not “didn’t get it” as in I disagree with anything about it, but “didn’t get it” in the sense of did not actually understand it!

Sure, there’s the whole model building thing of the brain. That’s old hat by now. We don’t apprehend reality directly, but via our brain-model, sure. …Beyond that: what? Didn’t get it, I’m afraid! Read through the article quickly once, like I tend to do; then I did that one more time, more slowly this time: but I still don’t get it.

Like you say, Brian, it’s a long chapter. And a very substantial one, in fact I suppose it comprises the whole meat of the entire book itself. …I’ll look forward to your further post/s on this last chapter, to properly make sense of what he’s saying there.

@ AR

Listen to some of his interviews on YouTube, if possible in German ..and you might understand sooner and better what he is up to.

Metzinger's interviews? Sure, why not, um. Any specific discussions you'd recommend yourself? ...If not, then I'll go look myself, no issues. ...This Metzinger guy intrigues me, and I've enjoyed Brian's discussions about this book of his, and sure, I'd love to hear him talk about his ideas himself.

(It'll have to be in English, though. I do know a bit of German, but it's nowhere near good enough, not even close, to even begin to make sense of an involved discussion about philosophy and science!)

"For we have an intuitive sense that there is (1) our internal consciousness and (2) an external world that consciousness is aware of. In other words, consciousness perceives a world that is independent of our perceptions of it. But this isn't true. It can't be true. It just seems to be true."

There's no other way to say it: You have a decided habit of presenting outlier philosophical opinions as fact. You're doing it again here.

The question of whether the external world is real or an illusion is a classic philosophical problem that has intrigued thinkers for centuries. There are several perspectives on this issue:

Realism: This view asserts that the external world exists independently of our perception of it. According to realism, the objects and events we experience through our senses have an existence and properties that are not dependent on our perception.

Idealism: In contrast, idealism suggests that reality is fundamentally mental or spiritual. For idealists, what we consider the "external world" is a construct of our mind or consciousness. In this view, what we experience as an external world is a projection of our thoughts or perceptions.

Phenomenalism: This is a middle ground where the external world is considered to be a collection of perceptions or experiences. Phenomenalists argue that we can only know things through our sensory experiences, so what we think of as the external world is actually a collection of these experiences.

Solipsism: This is an extreme position that suggests that only one's own mind and perceptions are sure to exist. According to solipsism, the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside of one’s own consciousness.

Scientific Realism: Many scientists and philosophers adopt a view akin to scientific realism, which holds that the external world exists and is structured in a way that science can describe and understand. This perspective maintains that while our senses might be fallible, the scientific method provides a reliable means of understanding and interacting with the external world.

Ultimately, the question of whether the external world is an illusion or a reality is deeply complex and touches on epistemology (the study of knowledge) and metaphysics (the study of the nature of reality). Different philosophical traditions and scientific approaches offer various ways of addressing this question, and the debate continues to evolve as our understanding of consciousness and reality deepens.


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