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August 20, 2024

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>> As Brasington proves, these states of bliss and concentration are attainable by anyone who devotes the time and sincerity of practice necessary to realize them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB7-isDs9YQ&t=537s

Listen carefully as, in between the lines, he explains the practice of ..walking a path .
It applies IMHO to ..ALL paths.

If that sincerity or love and devotion is not there, it becomes an mechanical, fruitless practice.

Hi Brian,

This post reminds me of a well known British monk who is mostly based in western Australia, I think you are familiar with his talks, his name is Ajahn Brahm.
Ajahn Brahm is a famous disciple of a Theravada Buddhist Thai monk, Ajahn Chah, who has already passed away many years ago.
Anyway, Ajahn Brahm practices and teaches the importance of attaining to the 8 levels of Jhanas in order to be free of suffering, and liberated or enlightened, as taught by the Buddha.
I have been fortunate to have met and listened to Ajahn Brahm on many occasions. He has a very good sense of humour and positivity.
You can also find his Dharma talks on YouTube, not sure if there are any talks on the topic of Jhanas available online, but I suggest you look him up.
He's awesome 👍😎👌

And ...

Where does SINCERY comes from?
It comes not from outside but from inside.
It is a matter of MOTIVATION

The way one starts any relation is a matter of "falling in love" ...and keeping that love alive ..be it for a parent. a child or a partner, friend or ....

Brasington speaks about that motivation, that dedication and his unconditional surrender to the guidance of his [guru] teacher Ayya khema ....her words, as he explains, are gospel truth for him.

One can wonder if one is at all able to walk that path or any other path, without this close relation with a [guru] teacher ...and against the background of what he says about his own relationship with her how he can think that something can be achieved by reading his book.

um, obviously it's possible to practice a form of spirituality or meditation without a guru. Many millions of people do just that. A teacher may be needed, but the teacher could be a book or a video. Jhourney reports on their web site that 80% of those who attend a retreat have an experience of the jhanas. This shows that a guru isn't needed, just a teacher. Brasington has written a book that can serve as a teacher. Regarding sincerity, this just means doing what needs to be done, which is the case with every physical or mental activity. Meditation is just another skill.

Brian, IMHO what he says in the video corresponds with what I have come to understand from the biographies of accomplished masters that have become founders of a lineage.

In sant mat too, in the original teachings, the stress is laid on close relation to the guru and without it no progress is possible....what explains for me why so many initiated people never managed to go within even after decades of practice.

Than there are few explanations. [1] there is something technical wrong with the practice and in that case, nobody should be able to have any result. [2] there is nothing wrong with the practice. In that case some should be successful and some not .. IMHO the last is the case with MOST practices

AND .. it doesn't surprise me at all as it fits with achievements within many other fields of human interest. Take whatever textbook on psychotherapy and in the initial pages you will find an remark that ..FOR the therapy to be successful, an so called therapeutically relationship has to be established.

Yes, all children, teenagers, and grownup's that frequent the local music school, derive pleasure from it, like they will do when they practice other forms of art but is that the level we talk about when we talk about artists???

The same holds for spirituality. Of course do those that attent meditation classes, retreats etc derive pleasure from what they do, if only to justify the money they spend on it, but is that the leve we talk about when we talk about mystics, etc etxc?

Yes I personally enjoyed being around in Sant Mat and do cherish the memories and enjoy what i came to learn ...but I have come to understand by soul searching, that whatever was needed to walk that path never was practiced by me. Just meditating for 2,5 hours and living up to the teachings .. is not enough.

What is needed is that burning desire to the complete exclusions of everything else.

I came to understand that by digesting the biographies of many spiritual practitioners from all walks of life. and that realization did me start to doubt and wonder why so many people are accepted for initiation while on other fields masters of their art, can and do handle only a restricts amount of disciples.

Especially Faqir Chand, Nisargadatta etc were eyeopeners.

That mentality i heard and saw in the video with Brashington.

Just before ending an outcry of Christi popped up in mu mind ..brothers is it so difficult for you to stay awake with me just for these few hours we are still together.

Al speak in an outsourcing way about the teachings and the teachers while I think, believe and are convinced that the real problem is with the practitioner

THAT Brian is also the reason why I put here questions the like as: What is YOUR problem Mr. Sharma.

@ Brian

If you would spend some time in going through the DASBODH, spiritual Instructions for the servant, you will without doubt find, that the roots of ALL spiritual movements find their roots in the same Indian soil, in Indian culture.. You wilol find there what you came to know about sant mat but also about adavaita as presented by Nisargadatta etc.

This is an ADVAITA offering but there are many different one's

https://www.advaita.cz/wcd/docs/ramdas/dasbodh_john_2015/dasbodh_output_pdf/00_celek_en_mar/dasbodh_john_norwell_2015_a4.pdf

There are many different versions of translation to be found.

After going through it one can wonder why, for heavens sake, these eastern teachers accepted people from the west.

Hi again Brian,

Personally, I wouldn't recommend learning any meditation technique from a book or reading about it somewhere.

In my own limited experience, I had read up about a particular traatak or gazing technique online, and practiced it sincerely for several months.
Initially, I felt a clarity of mind, to later being overshadowed by a nagging pressure on the right hemisphere in my head which continues to torment me til today. It's been more than 12 years that I have suffered with this pressure in my head, which continues til today.
Thankfully, MRI scan showed no sign of anything wrong on a physical level.
But the pressure in my head still remains.

Therefore, from this own limited and relative experience I had, I agree with Baba Gurinder Singh Dillon that if one is to take up any form of practice, they should do it with the help of a qualified teacher. One who knows the subtleties and terrain of that particular practice.

This advice seems to make practical and logical sense to me. As my experience has shown, especially with the unnecessary discomfort I am experiencing in the right hemisphere of my head.

Anyway, hope you find your Jhanas, good luck 🤞

The youtube videos named ,Frank Kepple practical guide on phasing(astral projection), is the best I've ever listened to in my 50 year search for a on demand tech that RS,Eckankar and others promise..

Interesting how these practices take off in the West. Yoga, Transcendental Meditation, Sufism, Zen, now Jhana meditation along with a host of teachers and pundits (and a lot of business) and all offering various rewards of experience. I wonder what’s so special about Jhana experiences of bliss and concentration and is it just another commodity for us to acquire?

As some may already know, the term Jhana comes from the Pali, translated into Sanskrit as Dhyana. In China it became translated as Chan and in Japan Zen. All these terms mean meditation.

Is there a proper way to meditate? I’m sure there are as many ways as there are teachers. And are the goals of what they teach accessible to all – perhaps a bite or two of a mushroom would suffice toward the same blissful absorption.

Perhaps when all the hype and experiences are over, all that remains; whether for dedicated practitioners or anyone is the simplicity of what is, of being here now, seeing what’s arising in the present moment that is always just here – when it is not being overlayed by concepts. It’s not as exciting and exhilarating as chasing and having heightened states of consciousness, but after all is said and done – here now is all there ever is.

[2]
>> As Brasington proves, these states of bliss and concentration are attainable by anyone who devotes the time and sincerity of practice necessary to realize them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FCDGlPflfY

Again something went wrong

Just listen to the first 5 to 10 minutes where she explains that SINCERITY by the practitioner is the sine qua none of the outcome .. of any practice.

Interesting, this jhana "craze".

My first reaction was, this is a money-making scam, run by unscrupulous greedy men. Because:

First, this is exactly the opposite of what this is actually about. The whole point of Buddhistic meditation is to realize that everything passes, and to develop neither attachment nor aversion. Jhanas are milestones encountered en route this journey. To expressly seek out jhanas misses the point entirely.

And secondly: What are the qualifications of the teachers peddling these expensive courses, that are offered free by the actual experts? I mean, if you want to learn coding, or economics, or philosophy; and particularly if you want to learn then up to an advanced level (experiencing the jhanas, more so the higher jhanas, certainly is very advanced): then for obvious reasons it makes sense to learn them from advanced teachers, with a Masters certainly maybe an advanced doctoral. It's not fetishizing the degrees per se, but it is silly, for obvious reasons, to try to learn this from undergrad dropouts who know just about enough about this to recognize in it a money-making opportunity, but nowhere near enough to actually offer the expert tutelage necessary. I'm not talking Guru fetish, I'm talking about learning advanced techniques from an advanced teacher. (And I doubt an advanced expert in Buddhistic meditation will sully their hands with crass commerce of this nature, because this is the exact opposite of what their training actually leads to.)


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The above was my initial knee-jerk. But my more considered, and more charitable, second thought would be:

Well it's like Yoga. Sure, teaching physical contortions for fitness is a corruption of ashtanga yoga. But what is the harm in teaching these to clueless newbs with more money than actual sense, even if for the very limited benefits of this taken-completely-out-of-context exercise? Because those benefits are real, even if much less than, and very different than, what the whole entire deal is about.


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I guess it finally boils down to how good are their teachers. If they're truly expert level, then okay, why not, if that's your thing and you can afford it. I personally wouldn't touch something like this with a ten foot pole because, like I said, this is the exact opposite of what this is about. But for someone looking expressly for these truncated, limited benefits: well why not. Provided the teachers are good.

And the 80% success rate? I'd take that with a pinch of salt. Sounds like a sales spiel to me. And a transparent and silly one at that. I don't have actual stats, but I doubt the "success" rate in actual expert settings --- scare quotes because in those settings that isn't how success is defined or measured --- will be anywhere like half of that, maybe not even a quarter of that. So I'd be skeptical of such tall claims (albeit not summarily dismissive, not without proper investigation).


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So yeah, for someone not clued into the whole system, and wanting a taste of it, then why not, if they can afford it. At best this is a limited introduction to the real deal, and actually quite neat, even if it completely misses the actual point of all of this. And at worst, this is a money making scam.

It all boils down to how good are their teachers. If they're really good, then okay, I guess, for a limited, truncated, and taken-out-of-context experience of the actual real deal.

AR wrote: "First, this is exactly the opposite of what this is actually about. The whole point of Buddhistic meditation is to...."

Actually, jhanas have been and are a fundamental part of Buddha's teaching and meditation practices since it's very inception and are mentioned literally hundreds if not thousands of times in the original Pali/theraveda canons!

It's cute that they're a "craze" now :)

Dear Brian - The Brassington book was a good book I believe, cannot recall it now though tbf. Some other good books on jhanas if you're interested, from what I can recall:

Practicing the Jhanas by Stephen Snyder.

Mindfulness, Bliss & Beyond by Ajahn Brahm

Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha by Daniel Ingram (not specifically about Jhanas, but hundreds of pages on that aspect of Buddhist meditation nonetheless!)

Practicing the Jhanas by Tina Rasmussen.

And I think a couple of informative books by a Sheila Catherine or some such.

Jhanas are a complicated & ambiguous subject, different groups have different definitions of what jhana actually is, for example "hard" and "soft" jhanas, where some teachers like Mahasi Sayadaw (I think) have a much more hardcore definition (or hard) for what the 1st jhana actually is. The original teachings in the Pali canons, due to their complexity and distance in time, do not make it 100% clear how a jhana should be defined.

Anyway, Brian, as somebody who has in the past spent multiple weeks in private retreat practicing some of these methods for up to 12 hours a day, and hundreds of hours in total over many months/years and achieving some level of success, you should be aware, if you are interested in experiencing some of these states, that the amount of time and effort to achieve some success and consistency with attaining even 1st jhana is quite considerable and intense, I would suggest much more so than the effort requested for RS meditation (which, to be fair, is more a promise of time in meditation than quality for the vast majority of initiates, and why any form of notable success is so notably absent for the vast majority of them).

If anyone is serious about experiencing jhana, I would highly recommend participating in a proper retreat, organised or privately at home, as you do really need to be spending 10+ hours a day to get even a taste of the 1st jhana imo. Once you have that 1st taste, then you have something to work with in your regular, daily, shorter meditation practice, you know which "direction" to lean into to get there a bit easier. But, as many have noted, the degree of the intensity of the meditative absorption, ecstasy or jhana is greatly reduced when the intensity of the meditation practice is reduced.

In summary, I think Buddha's comments about Jhanas sum them up quite well; jhanas are not needed for enlightenment, but they do make for a pleasant living in the here and now ;)

"Some other good books on jhanas....."

And the Visuddhimaga sutra too, a great mahayana meditation text which contains a instructions about jhana iirc, more expanded and detailed than in the original pali mentions of the practice/experience.

https://archive.org/details/Visuddhimagga-ThePathOfPurification/mode/2up

>>> AR wrote: "First, this is exactly the opposite of what this is actually about. The whole point of Buddhistic meditation is to...."

Actually, jhanas have been and are a fundamental part of Buddha's teaching and meditation practices since it's very inception and are mentioned literally hundreds if not thousands of times in the original Pali/theraveda canons! <<<

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Oh yes, manjit, agreed, absolutely. ...My point was, like I said in so many words in the rest of that paragraph that you quoted from:

"First, this is exactly the opposite of what this is actually about. The whole point of Buddhistic meditation is to realize that everything passes, and to develop neither attachment nor aversion. Jhanas are milestones encountered en route this journey. To expressly seek out jhanas misses the point entirely."

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