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June 13, 2024


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Thanks for confirming what I suspected would happen to me as well. I too took 'shrooms, acid, and peyote in the 70s but always outdoors in peaceful, quiet, friendly, natural settings. Yes, dose matters.

Haha, quite the anticlimax that turned out to be!

Glad you came out of it completely undamaged. And if you yourself aren't comfortable upping the dose, then absolutely, you shouldn't!


This thread is about your thoughts and experiences from your experiments, Brian, and your insights; but still, I'd like to put down some thoughts of my own if I may:

1. First, the price is pretty steep, isn't it! I suppose it isn't really unjustified, considering the facilities, and particularly the one-on-one supervision by a presumably trained person. And it isn't all that much, I guess, for just a one-off. But if someone's planning multiple sessions, then the price may be a factor against. (On the other hand, you get it right in your city, then that means no travel costs. And manjit suggests that 5 or 6 sessions over 10 years might be ample, which isn't much really, so...)

2. For that steep cost, do they offer individualized medical screening? That I think should be non-negotiable. The doing of it, with a bona fide doctor familiar with one's case history, I mean to say, whether at the center or separately and at one's own cost.

3. If it is important to one to have friends around, then surely one can do it together with them? And can't centers have private, outdoor spaces to do this in? At that price point, that probably is a reasonable ask. If this specific place doesn't have outdoor sessions, maybe some other clinic might?

4. Me, I'd only embark on this journey if only I were fully prepared to go all the way. I wouldn't do this unless I were prepared, both mentally and situationally, to encounter ego dissolution and/or ego expansion, and whatever that might entail --- and obviously, that would mean first clearly knowing and understanding what all that might entail. And I wouldn't start until I were assured it is safe --- I kind of think it is, but I'd need to educate myself more, and arrive at a place where I'm more than just "kind of" sure. Like you, I'd start with an almost-micro dose. But unless I found the experience somehow distressful enough to warrant changing my mind, I'd keep gradually upping the dose until I reach the "heroic" levels. (I take manjit's point that level may be different for different people, am individual thing, to be carefully explored and found out oneself.)

5. Finally, I don't think I'd want to use either music, or weird ceiling patterns, or weird lighting. The point of this is to explore oneself, as indeed is the point of meditation as well: and that is best done free from such distractions. I wouldn't want my exploration and understanding of my subconscious to be colored/diluted basis external stimulus. At least that's my personal take. Me, I'd go with a plain room and sunlight, or ordinary lighting (behind me, or above, not in front), or maybe just a dark room that's not completely invisible-dark. And either complete silence, else the usual everyday ambient noise. Birds, maybe rain --- but the real thing, whatever's actually out there.

But I realize that, as far as that last, I speak from zero experience, and only sketchy knowledge; so that, if there's good sensible reasons to go with those things, then I'm happy to change my mind about this.

Speaking from not only my own experience but that of all the millions of people who tried to turn on and tune in during the last several decades, I strongly believe that ingesting chemicals isn't therapy. It might be medicine for people with certain mental illnesses, such as severe depression. But I know of no one who got high and said it changed them for the better.

Just because someone writes a book making grand claims doesn't make the claims true. This is just as true for Professional Consciousness Experts as for Gurus.

If you meant that in response to me, as your phrasing suggests, then like I said I meant only as far as the last, which is to say my #5.

If you meant that as a general comment, and the similarity in phrasing was only a coincidence, then don't mind me, carry on!

...But even so, since I've already started commenting in response: I don't think Brian, or manjit for that matter, are using this thing as therapy. It's exploration, more like. It's more like a deep dive into parts of the subconscious normally not accessible, other than via (very) deep meditational absorption. At least that is how I read it. Not sure why you think that doesn't work. Happy to listen, if you wish to clearly discuss your reasons.

(I'm not saying it does work, I'm kind of on the fence, but at this point inclined more to agree with them, in fact a great deal more, than not. But like I said, happy to listen to your reasons why not, if you'd like to clearly present your case.)

Appreciative Reader, the $500 cost actually is less than what some other psilocybin centers in Oregon charge for a full psychedelic dose. That can cost $2,000 or even more. It isn't possible to go outside, because this conflicts with regulations set by the State of Oregon. Regarding music, Johns Hopkins University has a leading psychedelic research institute. They use music in their sessions. Here's a link that explains why, along with a link to the entire institute. You might find their research interesting.



Hey Brian, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Bravo for having the courage to try, even if only 1g!

I have to say, 2000 is pretty obscene for a proper large dose. I've checked out the laws in Oregon and, remarkably, it's still illegal to grow your own mushrooms or take them in your own home, whilst they can charge you 2k to take them with a stranger. Absolutely crazy! So if you wanted to explore further, you would have to break the law. If you ever wished to discuss in private, I can try to facilitate or advise on how to approach something like 5-15 dollars per g, if you provide your own space or container to take them in, which as you say above is preferable. Quality will be easily on a par if not better than this organisation you visited. Just email me if you ever want to discuss.

Re. taking psychedelics in nature and with friends, whilst I'm personally more than fine with people doing this and having fun on recreational doses, this is not what I am referring to when I advocate, and not something I would ever do personally. Safety and security simply cannot be guaranteed this way.

I am purely advocating for the ceremonial use of very high doses, taken in private (or at most a trusted and loved, unobtrusive sitter), in total darkness. Doses that are high enough for you to be unable to open your eyes, or even tell if your eyes are open or not.

Comments from old timers who took unknown quantities of unknown substances 50 years ago then chilled on the beach, or freaked out, are a whole universe away from what I am referring to.

The challenge is simple. All else is hot air, as with all the talk of brains, tripping, gurus and matter.

Wake me up again when somebody else is ready to rise to that challenge, and then discuss...

manjit, thanks for your wise advice. Yes, I'll contact you if I need your further advice. I get what you're saying about using psilocybin casually or recreationally versus using it for a deep profound spiritual experience. It's just too bad, though understandable, that Oregon doesn't allow the purchase of magic mushrooms for taking at home. Of course, people grow their own or get them some other way outside of the regulated system.

The $500 that I paid was broken down as $50 for the mushrooms and $450 for the cost of the facilitator. That latter cost may seem high, but he spent about 90 minutes with me on the phone prior to the session, then a bit over two hours for the session itself. So he made a bit over $100 an hour overall, which is a lot but not outrageous.

I actually feel a bit of an aftereffect glow today. Nothing at all psychedelic, but it sure seems like my mind is clearer and more at ease. So I suspect I got kind of a maxi microdose from the 1 gram experience. I realize that microdosing won't lead to the sort of ego loss that you alluded to in your comment, but it still appears to have other benefits that I'm interested in exploring.

Have been away – on and off – for a few weeks so just catching up with some of the latest blogs and comments. One of my trips was to London where I visited my one-time favourite bookshops specialising in philosophy, occult literature and a whole gamut of books featuring Advaita, Buddhism, Taoism, Zen, Sufism, Judaism etc. All the usual suspects were featured there – Alan Watts, J. and U.G. Krishnamurti, Nisargadata, Ouspensky (and many more); writers who featured prominently in my early days of enquiry – and apparently, are still popular with today’s seekers. Also, in a curtained section of the shop was an Asian looking chap – long beard, eastern clothes etc., who was giving readings of some sort. I only stayed for a few minutes, leaving with some nostalgia and realising that a huge part of my life and identity was well and truly over. The same goes for the various spiritual groups I was in and out of years ago.

I’d say that this ‘seeking’ activity is okay and perhaps inevitable when one is younger; it all seems to be mixed in with looking for meaning and identity – perhaps lingering on for many of us into middle and old age. Some settle for some kind of secure base, perhaps an established religious or spiritual organisation, others gravitate toward gratifying projects or perhaps charity work.

It seems to be a type of personal evolution, and one that doesn’t have a final conclusion, a final revelation. Except that is, if one can live with the knowledge that there probably is no conclusion apart from our everyday reality – whatever you are doing, whatever that may be.

I shared that youthful idealism you spoke of, visiting a plethora of spiritual groups and spending countless hours in "new age" bookstores. Everybody remember the new age that were told was dawning?

I think it's revealing that none of the paths offered by Watts, Ouspensky, etc., ad near infinitum, were sustainable. None of them took hold of Western culture. It's a fair question to ask why that was. Some might say that the West still isn't ready for the profundities of non-dual Eastern wisdom. But it could be that something essential was lacking in these philosophies. They didn't bring fulfillment, They were essentially entertainment.

My long history of frolicking in the astral fields of idealism has led me to pragmatism. I believe a philosophy's value is directly proportional to how demonstrably practical it is.

I once wrote Charan Singh, asking him how does anyone know he has found the right guru? Charan replied to me, "You will know by the peace in your heart." I think that's obviously correct, and I remember that as a restorative for the perverse idealistic tendency I have to try to fit a square pet in a round hole. By that I mean, to pursue philosophies that chase after sky pies when there's scant evidence that anyone has make this philosophy truly and actually and practically work in their lives.

It's that pragmatic outlook that makes me reject shrooms as a means of bettering one's life. If that worked, if tripping on shrooms actually worked, it would follow that most everyone would be doing it by now.

What they’re saying makes sense, actually. In that first link, I mean to say. The music provides a substrate as it were to the experience, that remains unobtrusive and unnoticed when you don’t need it, but offers a support that you can seek out and hold on to, either when the going gets rough, or if you’re otherwise lost, or to help you connect in the first place if you need that help. After all, that’s exactly what the mantra is for, and the yantra as well, in regular meditation --- or the breath, anapan, in vipassana mediation.

Thanks for the links, Brian!

(The research link I haven’t yet explored, but it’s bookmarked for later on when I’m free.)


Incidentally, the cost breakup they've provided you doesn't seem to add up. If a small dose costs just $50, and the rest $450 is for the guy sitting there with you, then why would a larger dose cost you four times the TOTAL cost? That makes no sense at all. (Unless it is the case that the duration of the experience, and therefore the guy's supervision, increases proportionally with the dose? Possible, I suppose, but seems very unlikey to me.)

Also, if they let you take along one or two or three friends along, then apart from meeting your preference for doing this with friends, your costs also might come down substantially. I mean, the same guy can look after all two or three of you, right?

(But of course, if inexpensive but quality product can be sourced directly, that's best, obviously. ...Word of caution, though: You'll need someone there who's trained in, or at least properly experienced in this thing, in case you end up needing help, right?)

manjit, your experience and expertise in this thing I completely appreciate, and go out if my way to acknowledge, as you’ll have seen from my comments here. But as far as the “challenge” over the “brain” thing --- I assume you were referring to my comment, since I think I was the only one that alluded to the brain in this particular context to you over the last few days --- I don’t think you’ve even understood what I’d said to you, obvious enough though it was. How on earth does your “challenge” have anything to do with that, can you spell that out?

It’s cool, very cool, this “technology” that you’ve tried out yourself, and long advocated here, and the much richer world it has opened up for you. But if you’d only make the elementary intellectual effort towards which I’d nudged you, then you might be able to extricate yourself from this fantastical worldview your imagination and your wishful thinking have conjured up for you around your otherwise cromulent experiences, and wake up to the real world, a sane world but one richer nevertheless for those experiences of yours. Your call, whether you choose to take up that much easier challenge.

Appreciative Reader, just to clarify, yes, the cost of a psilocybin experience goes down considerably at the Salem center with a group. As you noted, then a single facilitator can oversee a number of people. Sammy, one of the owners, has told me that they want to offer $100 sessions in a group. Don't know how large a dose that would be, though.

The $2,000 figure for a full-blown psychedelic trip was what some other psilocybin centers in Oregon cost. I'm not sure what the Salem center charges, since it was made clear that I'd need to have a mild 1 gram experience before a higher dose would be possible. Makes sense, from a safety standpoint.

I was asked numerous medical questions, both about physical and mental health, and was advised to ask my doctor about taking psilocybin. I did that. The Family Nurse Practitioner who serves as my primary care "doctor" wasn't wild about the idea, but she said it was up to me. Didn't have any specific objections, health-wise.

A new and better dera, one where everyone is free, and everyone is enlightened.


Hey Brian, yes, please feel free to reach out if you ever want to discuss alternative avenues ;).

$500 seems pretty reasonable... actually in today's economy you'd be hard pressed to find anything of this magnitude and time investment being offered at that price..but 2k seems way too much. It should always be kept in mind mushrooms grow very easily and cheaply, with a little bit of green fingered effort. 5 bucks a gram would be the upper level of cost if one grows them oneself.....

Here's an interesting viewpoint from a recent article:


Anyway, just wanted to say psychedelics are not the only way to dive deeply into the mystery of consciousness and reality, they just happen to be the quickest, most reliable and powerful way to do so.... and when one is, imo, trapped within the narrow confines of banal and one dimensional, intellectual and conceptual beliefs about the nature of consciousness and reality (such as "it's just the brain", a meaningless as well as scientifically unproven belief which by creating the illusion of knowledge and understanding instead merely removes and deadens us to reality), then it is highly unlikely one will have the dedication and passion required to uncover or penetrate deeply into these realms, insights, experiences or modes of being.

Regardless, I certainly wish everyone here all the best with their wishes and desires.


Hey Appreciative Reader...I hope all is well with you! Still keeping at it I see 😁

I'm on my phone so will have to keep my reply to your comments and questions short, but hopefully sweet. Luckily, in this instance, I have a short but very truthful and comprehensive answer, imo; hehe.

Peace! 🥰😘

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