I respond to a Sant Mat true believer who sent an email critical of me

Yesterday I got an email from someone who doesn't like that I've strayed from the path of Sant Mat, Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) variety, that I followed for 35 years. 

That made me happy, since it had been a while since I've gotten emailed criticism of me. Gosh, I'd been feeling all neglected, so it was a pleasant surprise to get this person's message.

I saved my response for this blog post. No reason to waste the person's message and my reply as being just between us. I've interspersed my responses in italics following their statements in regular type.

It's quite obvious that your lack of true understanding of Sant Mat has led you to totally negate all the teachings.

Hey, not at all. I'm still a vegetarian. Of course, I was a vegetarian before I was initiated into Sant Mat, so it figures that I'd keep on being a vegetarian. I also still meditate every day, though not in the same way I did in my RSSB period. Regarding my "lack of true understanding of Sant Mat," I'll reply to that false assertion below.

Sounds to me from your writings that you basically gave up on the idea of an Oversoul/God, in favor of believing we just die and everything is over and we don't exist.

That's pretty much accurate. However, this wasn't so much a giving up on the idea of God, as of coming to the realization that God is an unnecessary concept for living a meaningful life. If you doubt this, talk to some Buddhists. Or Taoists. Or the large number of people who are agnostics or atheists when it comes to God. Likewise, it wasn't so much that I chose to believe that when we die, we're gone forever. It was more that I realized there was no convincing evidence for life after death. If it turns out that there is, and it's a good life, I'll be pleased to learn this after I die.

If you've ever experienced the sound current and heard it, even for a second, you would understand that this is the essence of consciousness and that this indeed, is what Sant Mat teaches is God.

Well, here's what I said in a 2009 blog post, "Q and A about me about Sant Mat." My experience of the sound current, in the form of a bell sound, lasted more than a second. Yet I didn't understand this as the essence of consciousness and of God. So looks like you're wrong about the even for a second thing.

A few days after I was initiated I heard loud bell sounds inside my head while I was meditating. These never came back. I've had other glimpses of inner light and hearings of inner sound, but these could be (and probably are) produced by the brain, not immaterial soul or spirit.

Not the Master, not following blindly the Master, not being dogmatic, and not following some religious rituals as other religions do.

Hmmmm. You sure sound dogmatic to me. Maybe you should take your own advice.

In fact, if you've read any Sant Mat books you'd see this same teaching about the dogmatic behaviors of religions and that practice of Sant Mat is very practical and scientific, unlike religious rituals which are just the opposite.

Not only did I read every RSSB book published in English up through 2005, when RSSB and I parted ways, I read most of them many times. More: I took copious notes on them in the course of writing three books on behalf of RSSB: God's Whisper, Creation's Thunder; Life is Fair; and Return to the One. So your implication that I don't have an in-depth understanding of the RSSB teachings/Sant Mat is completely wrong. For many years I was a speaker at our local RSSB meetings. I also spoke at regional meetings of RSSB, including one national meeting. Have you read my first book about the relation between the new physics and ancient mysticism? It talks about the scientific nature of meditation, something I still believe in, just not in the same way.

Sounds to me like you're bitter from lack of experience and dedication to the path, even tho you might actually understand it, and have decided to try to turn others against it.

Wrong again. I'm not bitter about my 35 years in the RSSB fold. Those were enjoyable years, by and large. In the same sense, I'm not bitter about my first marriage, which ended in divorce after 18 years -- also mostly enjoyable years. I was extremely dedicated to Sant Mat during those 35 years. Followed the teachings to the best of my ability; did a lot of volunteer service; meditated every day. I do try to convince other people to become spiritually independent, rather than following the dictates of a religion. RSSB is a religion, in my well-informed view, so I use it as an example of the drawbacks of religion because it's the religion I know best. I mostly write about other subjects these days, though for a while I did write many blog posts about RSSB.

That's true ego dominance and it's pretty sad. I hope you can turn from that and become more humble and meditate again if you've learned this.   

I'm always amazed when strangers like you write about me as if you know me better than I know myself. Regarding "ego dominance," it takes a healthy ego to criticize someone you've never met, drawing conclusions about them from very flimsy evidence, none of it direct. I could be wrong, but I don't sense a lot of humility in the message you sent me. Regarding meditation, like I said, I still meditate every day. It's just a Buddhist/mindfulness variety of meditation, not Sant Mat meditation.

God bless --👋

 

Well, I don't really know what that means. Isn't God capable of deciding who to bless, assuming God exists? But thanks for what I'll take to be a kind wish. Nice that you ended on a positive note, since the rest of your message was so negative.

Comments

[777]

May I pls add to this
that every second of creation
which does not exist
is DIVINE

You both don t believe in free will
What stays is only our nano pieces of real Love

You both are saved from this mafia place

777

[sant64]

WITH THE THREE MASTERS v.2

Despite first reading an RSSB book in the 1970s, I'm just getting around to reading this one. I think it's the most disheartening text Beas has ever published.

The book covers the last years of Sawan Singh's tenure as RSSB guru. Sawan was well into his 80s and suffering from various health conditions. One has to admire his fortitude in continuing to travel about India giving satsang. On the other hand, there are Sawan's comments to consider. From them, I judge that he was either one of the most advanced mystics in India's history or suffering from dementia.

We have Sawan declaring that a recently deceased Satsangi is in Trikuti and "doing well." Another Satsangi of note was, according to Sawan, fed 4 eggs by his relatives and, despite the aegis of the satguru, must take human birth again. On hearing that a Satsangi committed suicide, Sawan observes that a suicide's soul is "upside down."

We learn from WTTM's author that when a Satsangi is in his last moments, it's vital that all non-initiate relatives be banned from the sickroom, or else the ailing Satsangi risks taking a new birth in unfortunate circumstances. Rai Sahib Munshi Ram also tells us that it's important to remember that when we die, our soul has a choice of turning left or right, and voices that pretend to be divine will urge us in the wrong direction, with the disaster of chaurasi the consequence. I thought the guru would come at the last moment and expedite the course, but apparently not.

We get a touching story of how when a satguru chews the leaf of a tree, the soul in that leaf will assume human birth through guru's grace. Hence, that was why one of Huzur's Satsangis had a child who was born mentally disabled -- his soul was still in the wood stage. I'm not making this up, it's in the book.

I've long felt that Sawan was not all there in his last years. It's funny though that in the guru politics wars, no camp was willing to consider that even a possibility. I can understand why: if the guru is non-compos mentis, his authority to designate a successor is rather qualified. One, because his decision-making ability is suspect, and two, because when a leader is senile, his decisions generally come through his underlings. Sounds familiar, I know.

I will say that WTTM does have value in revealing authentic Sant Mat. At least so in one particular. Some RSSB apologists have tried to get around the whole problem of the Sant Mat guru's status by claiming that, really, the guru is just a teacher. And not just the apologists, but the latter gurus as well. The say, "He's just a teacher, he's not God! Don't be silly. The guru is just to teach you how to do the meditation, that's all." Or words to that precise effect.

But what does Sawan Singh say about who the guru is in WTTM?

"The most important thing is that faith in the Satguru should never waver, and not for a moment any doubt arise in the mind about His true position." (219)

[777]

Sant64

One appointed by a Sant Sat Guru
can make all the bad secondary decisions God deems necessary for the
perfect selection of Souls
S/HE can f I have no education at all and yes suffer incompletenesses , alp mentally
S/HE drives completely , totally , entirely on serendipities.
generating Faith, Trust and Love in HIM/HER.
As I said in a former mail :

This RSSB is based on BEING HIM, BEING GOD
that U always were in the first place
It's ALL Super & HyperQuantum Entanglement

777

[Appreciative Reader]

Loved the "wood stage" reference.

All religious books --- most notably the Bible, but also these "mystical" ramblings --- tend to be full of such jaw-dropping imbecilities, such transparent charlatanry and/or ignorance and/or craziness. It is maybe understandable that people of earlier, ignorant ages could not recognize this transparent silliness for what it was; but today there is no justification for the Jesus-worshiping half-wits, and their other-religious-craziness believing cousins, to keep believing this madness.

One reason for this is because parents insist on brainwashing their children with their own brand of toxic imbecility. Stop that, and I expect religions will wither away within two or three generations.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

Brother Brian,

Great Conversation, I think it's healthy to get things off the chest. Healthy for other people too.

I had to follow your post here to older posts. Back to where you said you saw some Light & heard some Sound:
https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2009/03/q-and-a-about-me-and-sant-mat.html

The above mentioned older post of yours also led me back to a one year before post:
https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2008/12/my-strange-rssb.html

Man, those were the days!

I mean, I recalled more people talking about RSSB on the web back in the day, then site material started vanishing.

Anyhow, your initiation story is just as interesting as when 1st read it surfing the web back in the day before actually posting here (with the big boys).

The "Christananda Six" as you called it. Wow, that sounds like a pretty tough Biker Gang. Lol, just kidding. Brian, your story and how you came to doubt Sant Mat. I almost can dig it! Because I too was initiated by a rascal imitator H. H. (His Holiness) Rajinder Singh.

He initiated me before I found Baba Ji (Gurinder Singh Dhillon). I had already been meditating too, a form of Hatha Yoga practiced by many martial arts schools before I met Rajinder. So like you, for me there was a whole lot to sort out. Unlike you confronting Yogiraj, I didn't have to confront anyone. My main problem was the Sant Kirpal Singh successorship. In which I ultimately found Sawan Singh's Will to Jagat Singh on my own. Without any help from any Deras.

So now I understand more, why even you experiencing Light & Sound. You could still have doubts.

Not sure if my findings can help. Because you probably already went through the Sawan Singh Ji 'Will' thing. And even a bump on the head can produce Stars or Lights. But for what it's worth Chawan wrote something on inner experiences.

He said that some Light & Sound could be experienced, but it wouldn't be enough to pull the soul inward and upward. I forget which book, but I remember he said that Shabd (RSSB method) meditation would help remove the rust from the sword. To remove, all the false Rajinder or Yogiraj type of shenanigans off our minds so we could tap into pure unhindered Shabd.

Buddha Bless

[777]

Yes Karim
The rust must be polished
Next the caracteristic of the right Sound will be
It s sweetness
That will generate Love
Like Chocolate
That Love is the engine - it gives horsepowers
Same for Light , . . Dhyan, . . Our faculty to direct the attention of the Soul

it s easy with the bloody intellect shuit off
It s impossible with science;
The main difficulty is that we want a say in this
so triste because we don t even exist

777

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"6. HOW SHALL WE RECOGNIZE A MASTER?

Having said so much about the Master, it is now quite appropriate to ask, how shall we recognize a true Master if we find one? How shall one distinguish between the genuine and the counterfeit? Or by what means shall we find a Master? Whither shall we go to look for one? These and many other similar questions present themselves and demand rational
answers.

In reply, the first point of importance is what we may call cumulative evidence. I have never seen the city of Paris. And so I do not positively know that Paris exists, but judging from the cumulative evidence, I believe it does. Accordingly, examine all the evidence supplied by others. Give them careful analysis. Note also the credibility of the witnesses. That is important. Consider their intelligence and their general character and take special note of their motives. If many people of high standing and good intelligence believe in a certain man as a Master then at least you may proceed to look into the matter further.

When you see him, give him the most critical study. For one whole year, I lived and worked and traveled right by the side of my Master and took note of everything he said and did, even watching the expression on his face during crises, such as when he was attacked by opponents with fierce arguments and abuse. I watched his reactions when people came before him confessing their sins. I watched him when he went into the hovels of the poor to see the sick, and I studied him carefully when he entered the homes of the rich. I observed him carefully when dealing with two rajas who tried to bow at his feet. I took careful note when streams of people came along offering money for some public building, like the satsang hall. Also when people tried to give him money or other things for himself. Under all conditions, I found him a perfect man as a Master is supposed to be. A perfect character, as a man, is the foundation of spiritual mastership. If a man has not that to begin with, one had better let him alone. See if a man appears to be all that has been suggested in the preceding pages about Masters. Compare notes. Take plenty of time to find out the facts. Be always on your guard against.hasty conclusions, either for or against. Hold an open mind, even long after you think yourself convinced. A little more convincing will do no harm. The matter is extremely important. You cannot afford to make a mistake. It is unfortunate to go to a counterfeit master. But it is far more unfortunate to allow yourself to be turned away from a real Master by some hasty judgment.."

Path of the Masters, by Dr. Julian P. Johnson, pgs. 223-224

I'll try and be brief. I brought this up because when I started my search, 1st I went to my neighbor's house to see if he was a Master. Then searched within my community, and then towards other leaders from different Mosques, Churches, and Temples; some Imams, some Pastors, Priest, one Rabbi, three Yogis, and a handful of Buddhist. The book said I would have to go looking and so I did. The phone listenings in the back of the book were all 'No Longer in Service'. And I hadn't known Maharaj Ji (my book had a picture of then Present Master) who'd already passed in 1990. I didn't think to send a letter, as I got my copy of that book in 1991 while entering the ninth grade. I got the impression that anyone decent could be a Master so from there, just began my search.

[Mohit Sharma]

The real master care for his disciple.
GSD in involved on too many scams and a land mafia
Recently High court ban on RSB bias to make any new constuction as they grabbed lot of land and change the river way. Many farmers' fields are not getting enough water. As GSD has power so all govt employees can not do anything against this mafia organisation
The very interesting , just see below link how GSD holding Modi's hands..like saying thank you for saving me . Modi has lost lots of seats on recent election.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pm-narendra-modi-visits-radha-soami-satsang-beas-meets-chief-baba-gurinder-dhillon-3492564
Now you will get idea fake Guru can't save his allied then you can imagine where his followers will end up. Karmas will come back one day for sure

[S]

Anyone who claims to be GIHF is probably the Devil. 😂

Radhasoamis are not the most intelligent people in the planet.

That’s all I have to say about that.

[Jesus]

Seriously, if I had the power and influence I would woe RSSB from existence. It’s an extremely dangerous cult. The bane of human existence.

[Jesus]

Of course, I do have the power and influence and soon RSSB will be nonexistent.

[Charlie]

Grinder murdered his own wife. How does he still have followers? How stupid are they?

[Michael]

@Charlie

GSD is the Trump of gurus.