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June 07, 2024

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Gotta admire the chutzpah of someone who takes psychedelic drugs to...I forget his reason for it, or if he even has one..... be in a constant dither that some people have religious beliefs.

sant64, I rarely think about other people's religious beliefs. My life is too full of other interests for that. For example, I've got to watch Oregon and Oregon State in the super regionals of the NCAA baseball tournament today. Go Ducks and Beavers!

What bothers me most about religiosity, which I mainly think about only when I'm writing a post for this blog, is that truths about the world are sacrificed on the altar of blind faith. This has dangerous consequences, as evidenced by the religious fervor so many supporters of Donald Trump have for his constant lies and demagoguery.

Religions form the basis for such behavior by putting forth their own unproven assertions about reality, and having an authoritarian governance structure of their own where questioning is discouraged and obedience to religious leaders no matter what they do or say is encouraged.

Not sure what one's position on recreational/exploratory use of psychedelics has got to do with one's interest in and opinion on others' blind faith in archaic obsolete fallacious belief systems. The one seems to have nothing at all to do with the other.

This essay is a misrepresentation of Koch's views. "This will challenge those who see consciousness as something supernatural, non-physical, or ethereal to describe why Koch is wrong and they are right."

But Koch never said that he thinks consciousness is absolutely non-physical.

Koch: "Consciousness cannot be explained only within the framework of space and time and energy, but we need to postulate something additional — experience.”

He acknowledges that subjective experience — I am an ‘I’ and not just an ‘it’— cannot be explained by physical theories. He asserts that no physical thing in the universe, whether matter, black holes, galaxies, etc., appears to have conscious experience. Yet we clearly do; thus he believes that we need a profoundly new way to understand consciousness and the mind.

https://mindmatters.ai/2024/01/leading-neuroscientist-wavers-on-physical-view-of-consciousness/

Repeatedly presented Sapolsky as speaking for the consensus of neuroscience on the question of free will, and now putting words in the mouth of a different neuroscient....More precision and less atheist activism please.

And again, it's funny to me that someone who is so consumed with altering his consciousness -- with a different guru every week, and now psychedelics -- has such a problem with the "woo" of
consciousness expansion that posits this world had a creator. And why he can never articulate why he finds "woo" so abhorrent and a danger to civil society and puppies.

The answer will never come, but that's OK. I understand that most of our time and energy should be devoted to the nascent Stalinist purge.


facepalm

Woo woo beliefs are about subscribing to fallacious unevidenced belief systems. Recreational and exploratory use of psychedelics is ...just that. The one has nothing to do with the other. Not sure what part of this is confusing you.

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Let me try to explain with an illustration.

Meditation can be part of woo woo nonsense. But shorn of that, meditation is just meditation. I can practice meditation as exploration, as recreation, as relaxation, as part of wellness. If I do have experiences, I can simply put them down as interesting things the brain does when stimulated just so, and I can explore further if I want to.

Nothing woo woo about meditation per se. Or about ingesting psychedelics per se.

Can you spell out what connection you think you see between the two?

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As to why religions are toxic, that's a completely separate question. And it has already been spelled out here, many times.

To spell the above out even clearer: It is certainly hypocritical for someone subscribing to one stripe of woo to criticize another's woo beliefs, even if that criticism, seen stand-alone, hits home. Like we've seen here Sikh types criticize RSSB; and, in the past, Christian types as well; or for that matter Advaitins like Osho Robbins who (entertainingly, humorously, and quite rightly) criticize other kinds of woo, while remaining blithely and comopletely oblivious of their own transparent woo. That, I agree, is "funny".

But, as I've discussed, meditation per se, or ingesting psychedelics per se, are just that, they're not in themselves woo woo stuff. Therefore, there's nothing " funny" in someone who meditates, or someone who does the shrooms, also being vocal in their criticism of others' fallacious and often toxic belief systems. The two are completely separate things.

I'm surprised you don't see this, not even after I pointed it out clearly; hence this added clarification/explanation, even though the point is kind of obvious.

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