A Charan Singh initiate says that Gurinder Singh "is not who he is believed to be"

Yesterday Anise left a comment on a churchless blog post from 2022, "Description of Gurinder Singh Dhillon 'secret' video."

Since the comment contains criticism of the guru who heads up Radha Soami Satsang Beas, an India-based religious organization, and we here at Church of the Churchless absolutely love heretics (more heretic'y, the better), I'm sharing the comment below in order to bring it to the attention of more people. 

Enjoy. I've added a few definitions [in brackets] of Indian words that won't be familiar to many people. 

Deeply grateful to have found this blog...

My beloved Guru, Maharaj Charan Singh Ji, initiated me in 1988 at the tender age of 20. A guru who had magnificent presence and radiated Love. What a smile…! I fell in love with him as a 2 year old and it stayed like that until the end. Wherever he went, he left behind only humility, grace and bliss.

In 1982 we went to see him in Durban, South Africa, as a family who lived 180 km away. At tea-time on one of the days, I was in the tent when he came in. My eyes were glued to him, mesmerized as he moved slowly among the people, looking rather shy. Brilliant, but shy. I could not love more than what I felt I loved at that time.

He radiated something.... unnameable. So soft spoken and always kind. Rarely did he have to talk seriously when answering questions on the tapes, and even then, he was always kind.

But that was then. Where am I now?

Broken hearted, disillusioned, self-examining till the cows don't want to come home anymore ...for the past 18 years. After discovering this blog today, I feel a ton lighter!

I went to see Babaji [Gurinder Singh Dhillon, successor to Charan Singh Grewal] in Spain in 2006. Hoping that someone else who also attended his long weekend in Malaga at that time, reads this and can share what they experienced. I need to know if anyone else saw what I saw.

For me, this is what happened: He arrived a good hour or two late, came in walking extremely fast, looking extremely angry. In fact, my biggest take away from the 3 days, is that the corners of his mouth turned down throughout the whole time he was on the dais. It was crazy-strange and it freaked me out badly.

(Excuse the down to earth language, but even as a language teacher, I cannot find a more formal synonym, that does it justice.) I found it deeply disconcerting, and I still do. His mouth was the opposite of a smile. Honestly, it was like that most of the time: he looked angry. It was disturbing. Did anyone else notice anything similar?

When he started talking, he was very upset. Controlled, but really angry. (My thoughts were: I grew up understanding that anger is one of the 5 big tools of the mind...?? Something is not right.) I don’t remember his exact words, but he told us very angrily that the sangat is unorganized and that they should have controlled the traffic from the airport better, because it caused him delay!

Good grief?! This is the guru? This was where the first chord struck false. It hurt.

The second was when I discovered (through considering putting in an application for work at the Dera’s school) that said school prides themselves in their special subject: AI.

You may call me a traditionalist/naturalist/old fashioned teacher, but my entire body experienced a shockwave when I read this fact. Of course, then my wonderfully creative mind indulged itself into turning the whole thing around which caused me to introspect myself into a state of near depression.

Yes, maybe there is wrong with me, but I must be true to who I was made to be with the mind I was given. Have to live truth from the heart, head and gut, and therefore I now accept that, not with all the willpower in the world, could I rejoice in the arrival of AI. I probably see differently than most here. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. It just feels very wrong to me. Off.

Then, in 2015, I saw him in Johannesburg. There was an incident that I would never forget and once again, I ask if anyone else attended and can remember it? There was a moment between a person who just finished getting his/her answer to a question and the next person being ready to ask theirs, when he broke the silence and said the strangest thing.

I do not remember his exact words, but it was something like: ''Doesn't anyone have a question about sex? We are so shy to ask about this normal bodily function but in this day and age....'' What followed was just this thick silence from the audience that hung in the air. It felt very inappropriate. Naturally, no sexual questions were asked even after his prompting.

Around 2017, one Sunday, a speaker sevadar [volunteer] clearly said that Babaji said: 'If you haven't gone within yet, you are wasting your time.' I was horrified. I am not taking it out of context. Those days we were still allowed to have tea after satsang [meeting] and this was discussed between myself and 3 or 4 others sitting at the same table.

The next time that Gordon, the country’s representative was available after satsang, I went to ask him if what the speaker said is true. If GSD said this. His answer was that the speaker is responsible for what they say and that is how we should take it. This was the fourth. It goes against everything that every Radha Soami master has ever said.

The fifth one came like a dagger with the pandemic. We all have our own views; please understand that this is not meant to upset or hurt anyone, and I deeply respect everyone's right to believe as they see fit, but to me, it honestly stank that he has/had ties with the pharmaceutical industry. The reader may have totally different health views, which I respect highly.

However, it went completely against my grain that he advocated for and mandated a therapy that was untested, for a disease with a 99% survival rate. Pregnant woman not excluded. In many countries, children too. I felt that he was more than bowing down to negative forces and that he should not be so deeply involved in these things. The double whammy was learning about his fortune and the court case against him. Something is very wrong.

My biggest struggle is the fact that I just cannot take to him. I have tried again and again. I strongly feel he is not who he is believed to be. Something went very wrong.

Comments

[s*]

Deeply understand your post from A to Z..
The pain..loosing Maharaji..known him at my 19th.

The shock for the first time seeing Babaji Gurinder..
Later it went on better..but after all..I only missed Maharaji
Baba Gurinder..I cańt understand most things!!
A I is terrible too!!And everything around that too bbbrr.
I will never take the jab!!

The transmigration thing botherd me always the way it was explained.

But Love is most important..
Still is.
Heartfelt love,
s*

[umami]

Anise,
Baba Ji is for his own initiates to contemplate.

[sant64]

Invariably, the people obsessed with Gurinder are also obsessed with Charan.

Anyway, I recall the first time I saw Gurinder. It was on a screen in Petaluma, and he appeared to be barking out his displeasure over something in a language I didn't understand. I was all so uninspiring and unspiritual that I left the program. And so, I can understand how people find Gurinder a turn off, or at least don't find him as charismatic as Charan.

On the other hand, I've read reports by ex satsangis about how they saw Charan treat his sevadars badly, or condemn them for being gay.

I've also watched more than a few of those "Q & A with GSD" videos for evidence of Gurinder being a jerk. And I"ve seen so much as a hint of impatience on his part. While I don't agree with all of Gurinder's answers to the sangat, he doesn't come across to me as an egomaniac. He seems to really listen to each person, and, while not bowling me over with spiritual mojo, does appear to demonstrate sincerity.

That aside, I can well understand how some find today's RSSB frustrating, its teachings contradictory. If you haven't gone within you're wasting your time. But then, Charan said the same damn thing in so many words. There is no doubt about that, and yet, for some strange reason, the Charan fans completely overlook Charan's faults but see these same faults in Gurinder is vivid wide screen 3D.

It's a phenomenon I've been fascinated with ever since Gurinder became guru. All the wackiness of RSSB during Charan's time goes unmentioned, but is transferred to the new guru.

[s*]

I believe in Ishwara..who is in and all around us.
Everywhere and in all living beings is God..Ishwara..
Eventually it is all Oness.

[s*]

But the ´game´here on earth is ppfff unbelieveble difficult.
Not to understand why all the frictions and opositions are meant for.
So..
No real answers possible to me..

[Ron E.]

It seems to me that anyone who sets themselves up as a spiritual guide who professes special status that requires being worshiped or even accepting such a role is someone to be very wary of. Not saying that they are necessarily frauds, more that they have overstepped the mark of being a teacher.

To grant oneself any sort of divine or God-like status and to be worshiped as such is in danger of creating a cycle of psychological dependency and exploitation. By contrast, someone who is simply a teacher, someone who has understood the problems encountered in just being a human being and who can communicate such without becoming or accepting veneration (maybe simply a friend) is just maybe, someone to work with.

I can't contribute anything about the RSSB teachings or whether their guru's declared themselves to be GIHF as I am unfamiliar with this organisation. Just a brief reading though does say that many followers believed the guru to be just that.

I am no fan of the guru tradition mainly because I see many of their teachings to be, well, extravagant – if not irrelevant or misleading in the quest for what is called truth or reality. It is so easy for followers to exaggerate in their own minds the status and attributes of their particular guru. Also, it is known that some gurus’ have a mentalist's ability to influence people. I recall mentalist Derren Brown who used his technique to (temporarily) convert a roomful of atheists into believers.

It's as if the simplicity of life is easily obscured by the human mind's desire of wanting to be something special, something more than what it actually is – and there are many who are on hand to provide such a service. But it is difficult, mainly because our lot as human beings often include a good deal of fear and anxiety. It is quite natural to look for some person, organisation or system to tell us what we should do and to assuage the existential need to ‘discover who/what I am.’ The more knowledge they appear to have – particularly in the subjective spiritual sphere, the more appealing they sound. Their messages often encompass the area of our mortality with some sort of assertion that we are special and also naturally appeal, at certain stages in our lives where we find ourselves unsure, lonely and afraid.

[Word]

"Guru" is simply a word for teacher. In my life I have had my share of teachers. I went to them to learn about specific subjects. Some did a great job of engaging and inspiring me to go furthers. Others were just a step to complete graduation requirements. As I became somewhat of an expert in certain things, some have called me a "guru". No harm.
The problem arises when an organization is created to sustain and expand the status of guru to God. This is what we are witnessing with RSSB group of Beas and others. In my opinion the greatest architect was Sawan Singh. He created the Dera and setup the successorship appointments. Tying the sangat to the gaddi (seat of guru) without choice. A great system for a time. All fail becuase leaderships aren't willing to give up the power and control, yet can't keep the "dirty laundary" under covers.

[umami]

"If you haven't gone within you're wasting your time. But then, Charan said the same damn thing in so many words."

Hey, sant64.

I see what you mean. The RS take on human existence is that going within is the only purpose, and any other pursuit is a waste of time.

What exactly did GSD say and mean? I hate to spoil it, but perhaps the same RS orthodoxy! In Anise's story all we have is hearsay, starting with the speaker, who might've put on the wrong spin. Gordon the rep echoed that in a way--the speaker is responsible for his or her own interpretation.

AI, weird. Sex, funny. Vaccines, consider the alternative--smallpox, polio, measles, rubella, whooping cough, etc. How many covid anti-vaxxers now happily shoot Ozempic?

[No Kool-Aid]

I also received Nam by the grace of Charan Singh. He used to say that two people discussing the Sant Mat teachings is satsang. No need to purchase property to hold satsang. Devotion is an innate attribute of all humans. We see this in everyone. The question is, what are people devoted to? Many pursue wealth and power. When we depart this temporal realm, we leave everything that we can see with our physical eyes here. Charan Singh reminded us that all we take with us at the time of death is our sins, our good deeds and our devotion to God. Every line of gurus comes to an end sooner or later. I am disillusioned and saddened by the actions of Gurinder Singh. Charan Singh appointed Gurinder Singh as his spiritual successor. Charan Singh takes responsibility for the souls that have received Nam through Gurinder Singh. The path is inside. Let us focus on our spiritual life, and not get lost in what transpires in this world. Radha Soami

[Word]

https://www.outlookindia.com/business/business-news-riches-to-rags-how-billionaire-ranbaxy-brothers-malvinder-and-shivinder-singh-landed-in-jail-news-302267

Bhai Gurdas presented a poem to guru Arjun Dev about virtues of a disciple. Paraphrasing, "if a mother's ways are off course, a son must remain virtuous.....but what can a son do, if mother poisons him?"

Yes our spirituality/path is inside. Would help if a guru is a solid model.

[sant64]

"Charan Singh takes responsibility for the souls that have received Nam through Gurinder Singh."

To my knowledge, Charan never said or implied that he was taking responsibility for his successor's initiates. What Charan did say, many times, is that each guru only comes for his appointed flock or marked souls. Likewise, Charan said it's a core tenet of RSSB that an initiate only look to his own guru.

That said, "guru" in RSSB is a nebulous term. Throughout TREASURE BEYOND MEASURE, Charan constantly refers to the grace of his guru (Sawan) as the motive force that guides and takes care of his apostolate. Every other guru in the RSSB line did the same - - none claimed to personally possess "master powers," instead saying that their mastership was wholly powered by the grace of their own guru. Some sects of Sant Mat claim that Swamiji was the root incarnation of the Almighty and all succeeding gurus are channeling his grace. Some claim something a bit different.

This is nothing new. The concept of the succeeding guru claiming his power comes from his guru is common throughout many sects of Hinduism, or which RS is a part. Some may say this transference of spiritual power is a fact. Others may say it's an act of humility and that each guru really has personal power but will never declare it outright. Others may say it's just a story that's part of Indian culture.

In any event, though this concept of guru power is flexible, and I agree that devotion and good actions are what really matter, I'm not sure we can go so far as to state that Charan Singh takes responsibility for the souls that have received Nam through Gurinder Singh. Again, this is because Charan Singh never said this, and Gurinder never said it either (correct me If I'm wrong) and it goes against these guru's admonitions that an initiate not look to any other guru besides the guru with whom they took initiation.

[Word]

MCS had some representatives (for their entire lives) who were intitiating some disciples. However, majority were intitiated by the guru himself in Beas. During his tenure as a guru, there was a strong Spiritual atmosphere around his sangat and satsangs.
GSD has many many representatives who are initiating. They can retire or resign from the position. The spiritual atmosphere seems to have taken a back seat in sangat and satsangs. More of an artificial, scripted, corporate presence.
It is what it is. Life is beautiful. Keep rowing our boats gently down the stream.

[sant64]

I've been irregularly going to RSSB satsangs since 1980, and there's objectively no difference between them then and now.

The idea that one guru's satsang has power or loses power is an old one. Swamiji argued that the religions of his day had lost their power and he was reinstating it. When Swamiji died he appointed Saligram his successor. Jaimal didn't like Saligram and argued that the Saligram Satsang had lost their power and that he, Jaimal, possessed the spiritual power of Swamiji's sant mat. After Swamiji's death, Sawan appointed himself as a guru. After Sawan died, Jagat was appointed successor, but Kipal Singh claimed that he, Kirpal, had Sawan's spiritual power and that RSSB was cut off from the true branch of Sant Mat spiritual potency. Kirpal would say of Charan (obliquely) that he had a nice turban, but wasn't a real guru like himself.

Later, one of Kirpal's initiates, Paul Twitchell, claimed that Kirpal's group had no real spiritual power and that he, Twitchell, was the true master of the original sant mat. On and on it goes, in every religion. It's the inevitable story one finds in all successorships. Jewish to Catholics, Orthodox to Protestant to Mormon, Shia to Sunni, and even the earliest days of Buddhism. One group says it has the power and its rivals do not, while the rivals claim they have the power and the old school or old guru does not.

Of course, each person has their own opinions on whether they "feel the spirit" in any particular group or guru. But no objective statements on that score can be made. The feeling that the spirit is or isn't present in any group or guru is purely subjective.

[Baba Land Grab]

Baba still busy grabbing land by unlawfully redirecting River Beas flow to nearby villages , video dated 31 March 2024 https://youtu.be/jtVqVQ4LbaI?si=vcLpLskxU6oN-3Aa

[Word]

Spirituality has always been subjective. But behaviors or acts can be studied, hence objective.

[Trez]

ANISE

RADHA SOAMI BABA CHARAN SINGH AND NOW GURINDER SINGH DISASTER DHILION

SAINTs nope, a person having the qualities of always having good intentions these 2 never had or have

Hahaha lol can never be Charan Singh or Gurinder Singh Dhilion

Just look at all the sick and bad things they've done throughout the years to all, even to they're very own family's to get power and wealth that's what Radha Soami is about Greed

Gurinder Singh Dhillon is a Coward and Hides after he's done so much bad to others, because he might get a good hiding for it too. He's definitely not who he is believed to be nope . Look at his actions on stage a show of utter bull

He's no Saint but someone who's lost his Sanity

Even the Initiation meditation is of Kaal (Satan) the first name spoken means the "light of the devil" that's where you're going if you repeat it repeatedly
Ask Gurinder Singh Dhilion in the next Questions and Answers session and see him hiding and avoiding it, go on

His love for Power, money and women is absurd if anything he needs hospitalization for these sick acts which make no sense of his seedy nature. Saying things of a Sexual nature is his very nature , he has said many a times these sexual questions and answers in his q&a

He needs help he really believes he's a God and he's got people believing that too.

Come on Wake up he's a Lying Little Donkey ripping people out of pocket and land and hiding behind a facade

He is now at the end of his life and is going around being in front of the cameras too all of a sudden, because he knows its nearly over
He hasn't much time left. Thank God for that we're all saved from this Evil cult and the Devil himself !

[Kranvir]

The entire lineage of Jaimal to gurinder singh Dhillon, the Villian, are guilty of deceiving millions and creating a cult from Soami and moving away from saligram lineage. Charan singh ran away when he became the master, as he knew it was a dodgy path and he himself admitted he wasn't enlightened. Charan was definitely to blame for leaving the clown dhillon in charge as his successor. It is clear that gurinder constantly has sex on his brain and enjoys the perks of looking at female sangat judging from his openess in Johannesburg satsang 2015. He's also made many sexual remarks in multiple satsangs since that, and is nothing but a dirty old desperate pervert. Total hypocrisy when we are all to shut up, put up and stay humble and never to look at the opposite sex. Its clear that this pervert is no god in human form but a opportunist who grabbed the promotion from waiter to God in human form by contract.

[777]

Héé
I was in Malaga to
and was hurt by GSD s remark that Initiated have double karma
when doing wrong.
But I had also Darshan there
You know : that all yr attention
rises up to your hair barrier.
so I knew HE is nor Fake
I was angry when I was refused ask a question

Initiated in 1964 I was anyway somewhat in your state of mind

I think GSD is not a pleasing shrink - perhaps even the opposite
like Zen Masters kicking their disciples
Kicking HE did in many ways

Every Soul in Creation ie 110% God - In voluntary State of Amnesia
Doesn't t that comfort U?
A Guru just has a little bit OR a lot of amnesia less.

I find this totally super Bright high IQ to do this LOVE_accumulation,
within virtual eternity- See my "How it works"

HE is just YOU
HE is everybody
We are not a drop in the Ocean but the ocean is a snow flock compared with a Soul
Even Brian is The Almighty
One strange but comprehensive explanation is : All around you inCreation is artificial
only YOU are real

Yes Gurinder is here for his initiates. That might be a whole new batch of Souls.

I am so glad this is the householders Path with much less hypocrisy
f I on sex
Our flesh is generated by 7 chakras
and because creation was made for pleasure, we can arouse them all 7
and the 2 highest give the maximum pleasure.
Our Path is not of Brahm/Jahweh requiring extreem ascese to become One with Him, next wait until He is ready got join Para Brahm from the Causal Sphere
What I like from Gurinder is that he exited the region stories and is emphasising that ALL is Consciousness
and what we imagine at certain levels where we have Power, becomes reality.
Our God of the 7th "Heaven" is the origin of everything
and in our Path He does what he wants for a loving disciple
and even for the not loving

I got a revelation , . . .at almost 100 I don t hesitate to tell :
7 years ago I first had Darshan of My Master Charan
and HE slowly then changed in Gurinder
Then I saw a lot of Creations, . . so many that our James Webb
Universe is
an insignificant snow flock - I looked from above the 3 region of consciousness
This was terrific
The Simran swelled all that time as crazy !!
Then HE. asked me a favour , . . I don t lie ; and I did what HE asked
something material, which had big consequences for a n on satsangi person
a future disciple which I helped to go from an East European country to move to
the UK - A town near Birmingham where live many satsangis
That s all I know beside the fact that She was the Deity who created all that I saw
Now with the Space Telescope it s easy to understand
The Double Helix is SO old

I told long ago to Mr Lane that these Gurus only
have constant serendipities and not a university degree

They are more amazed than we are until they die
but the second Niels Bohr pays a visit, THEY understand
what Niels is talking about , . . God willing, always God willing
It s not an easy job - that s clear in Treasures beyond Measures

Imagine GSD was brilliant in all things
Then we hadn't this blog

777
I find the sex question totally clear , . . like Phils 69 question
Most of the time it s not GSD speaking God does that with humor

also : "Didn't t U Go in yet" , . . for those that understand that Heaven (SK)
is a state of pure consciousness and they see HIM in every tree , cloud, a mouse, in music , in other minds, in our bodies
all nature and the rest

And AI might be strange , decennia ago
but I think IBM was already learning QUBITS
PLUS
all around us is AI on a Quantum level

[sadbecauseitstrue]

It’s sad. It’s just so very sad… it’s horrific to have experience a relationship with a false guru. Yet, is that what humans tend to do? We make “gods” of everything—politics, money, relationships…

It’s very sad but I can assure you we’ve all been there. You’ll get through it.

Better to be a disillusioned disciple than a delusional guru. 😂

[777]

So SAD

So many fakes everywhere
BUT

You can't tell a boy/ girl in love not to do that. ??

[Trez]

Fake Baba Gurinder Singh Dhilion and his Fake Radha Soami Cult is never to be believed and never to be followed.

It is a path of lies sugar coated to decieve and delude the world so Gurinder Singh Dhilion can live the life he has always wanted. From a struggling waiter in Spain to a Fake Baba sitting in India lying on Stage endlessly.

A Shamelful Story of nothing but Greed and Power, later to be punished and judged by God himself. It's a coming...

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

I see 777 has done an above 'job in excellence' in answering the questions that appear here.. Congrats on your service of Souls, I had wondered how you were. 777, always an advanced Disciple in my book.

I will try to hone some of the questions also, but only in parts:

"Deeply grateful to have found this blog...

My beloved Guru, Maharaj Charan Singh Ji, initiated me in 1988 at the tender age of 20. A guru who had magnificent presence and radiated Love. What a smile…! I fell in love with him as a 2 year old and it stayed like that until the end. Wherever he went, he left behind only humility, grace and bliss.

In 1982 we went to see him in Durban, South Africa, as a family who lived 180 km away. At tea-time on one of the days, I was in the tent when he came in. My eyes were glued to him, mesmerized as he moved slowly among the people, looking rather shy. Brilliant, but shy. I could not love more than what I felt I loved at that time.

He radiated something.... unnameable. So soft spoken and always kind. Rarely did he have to talk seriously when answering questions on the tapes, and even then, he was always kind.

But that was then. Where am I now?"

Let me try starting here, as 777 already pointed out. RSSB Sat Gurus have stated that one Master may be more fitting only to their disciples. But the new Master after say, Hazur Charan Maharaj Ji may only fit newer/younger/less-mature seekers like myself. The new Master is there for old disciples too, but only if they need a re-sitting, or more tutoring, as per the Teachings..

"Broken hearted, disillusioned, self-examining till the cows don't want to come home anymore ...for the past 18 years. After discovering this blog today, I feel a ton lighter!

I went to see Babaji [Gurinder Singh Dhillon, successor to Charan Singh Grewal] in Spain in 2006. Hoping that someone else who also attended his long weekend in Malaga at that time, reads this and can share what they experienced. I need to know if anyone else saw what I saw.

For me, this is what happened: He arrived a good hour or two late, came in walking extremely fast, looking extremely angry. In fact, my biggest take away from the 3 days, is that the corners of his mouth turned down throughout the whole time he was on the dais. It was crazy-strange and it freaked me out badly.

(Excuse the down to earth language, but even as a language teacher, I cannot find a more formal synonym, that does it justice.) I found it deeply disconcerting, and I still do. His mouth was the opposite of a smile. Honestly, it was like that most of the time: he looked angry. It was disturbing. Did anyone else notice anything similar?

When he started talking, he was very upset. Controlled, but really angry. (My thoughts were: I grew up understanding that anger is one of the 5 big tools of the mind...?? Something is not right.) I don’t remember his exact words, but he told us very angrily that the sangat is unorganized and that they should have controlled the traffic from the airport better, because it caused him delay!

Good grief?! This is the guru? This was where the first chord struck false. It hurt."

OK. Here, you bring up the Five Foes of Man aka the 5 Demons. True, Anger in fact is one of the deadly FIVE. But did you forget the antidotes to them? Above you stated the Guru GSD, seemed "Controlled". If you remember, the FIVE antidotes Control of Anger IS one of them.

"The second was when I discovered (through considering putting in an application for work at the Dera’s school) that said school prides themselves in their special subject: AI.

You may call me a traditionalist/naturalist/old fashioned teacher, but my entire body experienced a shockwave when I read this fact. Of course, then my wonderfully creative mind indulged itself into turning the whole thing around which caused me to introspect myself into a state of near depression.

Yes, maybe there is wrong with me, but I must be true to who I was made to be with the mind I was given. Have to live truth from the heart, head and gut, and therefore I now accept that, not with all the willpower in the world, could I rejoice in the arrival of AI. I probably see differently than most here. I am not here to convince anyone of anything. It just feels very wrong to me. Off.

Then, in 2015, I saw him in Johannesburg. There was an incident that I would never forget and once again, I ask if anyone else attended and can remember it? There was a moment between a person who just finished getting his/her answer to a question and the next person being ready to ask theirs, when he broke the silence and said the strangest thing.

I do not remember his exact words, but it was something like: ''Doesn't anyone have a question about sex? We are so shy to ask about this normal bodily function but in this day and age....'' What followed was just this thick silence from the audience that hung in the air. It felt very inappropriate. Naturally, no sexual questions were asked even after his prompting."

Now here, could have been Baba Ji's sense of humor again like the But thing. As we're all human beings needing a Mother and a Father to fertilize an ovarian egg. Yes, through intercourse like the rest of the sentient Kingdom.

"Around 2017, one Sunday, a speaker sevadar [volunteer] clearly said that Babaji said: 'If you haven't gone within yet, you are wasting your time.' I was horrified. I am not taking it out of context. Those days we were still allowed to have tea after satsang [meeting] and this was discussed between myself and 3 or 4 others sitting at the same table.

The next time that Gordon, the country’s representative was available after satsang, I went to ask him if what the speaker said is true. If GSD said this. His answer was that the speaker is responsible for what they say and that is how we should take it. This was the fourth. It goes against everything that every Radha Soami master has ever said."

This one is a much tougher question. What that initiate said IS in the teachings. For Baba Sawan Singh Ji has stated numerous times, that "One need to go beyond Trikuti and verify the inner Truths for oneself.." Again I reiterate this topic being tough, as any layman could say that it's impossible have NOT gone within to a great degree required by Sawan Himself. I must also note, this Path is not for 'faint of heart'. Mr. Hines, you also must have read this before, initiates are supposed to aquatint themselves with this FACT long before initiation. Books only serve as information, & NOT as EXPERIENCE.

"Che fifth one came like a dagger with the pandemic. We all have our own views; please understand that this is not meant to upset or hurt anyone, and I deeply respect everyone's right to believe as they see fit, but to me, it honestly stank that he has/had ties with the pharmaceutical industry. The reader may have totally different health views, which I respect highly.

However, it went completely against my grain that he advocated for and mandated a therapy that was untested, for a disease with a 99% survival rate. Pregnant woman not excluded. In many countries, children too. I felt that he was more than bowing down to negative forces and that he should not be so deeply involved in these things. The double whammy was learning about his fortune and the court case against him. Something is very wrong.

My biggest struggle is the fact that I just cannot take to him. I have tried again and again. I strongly feel he is not who he is believed to be. Something went very wrong."

In final, your review on the Guru's to stance on medicines is flaws. I have here a direct Source from your late Great Master Charan Singh Ji Grewal: "..You are wrongly informed that a Satsangi is not to take drugs or injections. He is to abstain from animal foods and alcoholic drinks only. Of course he should not be addicted to drugs or the drug habit; but in the case of illness, disease or operations there is no objection or prohibition against taking any injection or medicines under the advice of a doctor. However, in no case are meat or eggs or anything containing them to be taken by mouth by a Satsangi.." -Divine Light

[Kranvir]

Just a reminder that the whole RSSB lineage path from Jaimel is totally a deception. Jaimel says he had the authority to initiate from saligram, agra , but yet it is said they never ever met. This means that Jaimel got deceived from entities on the inside that where disguised as Soami but where really demons. Just look at the lineage and the different branches that have emerged and the same tricks used by kaal , where each guru believes that they were special and that they have had the authority from a so called guru on the inside - which is really a decieving demonic entity. This is the way kaal, deceives mankind to go in a direction that is opposite to where he is heading. The biggest demon on the planet is gurinder singh dhillon who thinks he can deceive everyone, have billions, be worshipped like a god, and have his own dirty pervy way, while we are told to put up, stay in line and stay humble.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"Just a reminder that the whole RSSB lineage path from Jaimel is totally a deception. Jaimel says he had the authority to initiate from saligram, agra , but yet it is said they never ever met."

Posted by: Kranvir | April 16, 2024 at 01:16 PM

Mr./Ms. Kranvir,

Are you initiate from the Great Swami Bagh? Salig Ram, powerful Satsangi, powerful. Pratap was to be heading up treasury, and Salig Ram in charge of all affair at main langar.

Powerful sewa!

[Kranvir]

Karim
No I'm not an initiate from him.
All roads lead to kaal I'm afraid - no one has made it through , no one has never escaped this matrix. Only god himself , which is truth, the word made flesh, has to come in and free souls. Have you noticed how kaal, gurinder singh dhillon, is working hard, at his old age, opening centres all over the world trying to spread negative energies and keep souls lost, confused , deluded and trapped in his web of lies. One would have thought that fake ass guru would have retired by now. But for the sake of being given the title of a god to be worshipped , all those billions , all the innocent women , he is happy to take the role - dirty old man, hypocrite, that can knowingly lie through his teeth and not flinch on stage. His days are numbered, karma , the system kaal created to keep souls trapped, will be served on him and his negative masters.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"His days are numbered, karma , the system kaal created to keep souls trapped, will be served on him and his negative masters."

Posted by: Kranvir | April 18, 2024 at 01:01 PM

OK.

So you're not initiated, by any sect. of the Sant Mat ways? I ask because you seem very familiar with the teachings: Kaal for instance.

Kaal is not found in many religions. Islam for instance calls anything not from Allah, coming from Shyatan. But no reference to a 'Kal' is found in the Koran. So when you say "the system kaal created to keep souls trapped.." What system do you mean? Especially if you're not an initiate. Can you share here at the Church of the Churchless Blog, what you know of Kal, his systems or history, and any sources of your knowledge?

[Jim Sutherland]

@Karen,….here is a good description of Kal, in Sant Mat is the creatir god. ( I fidn’t suther thus. It was from an Anonymous Author)

THE PLANS OF THE CREATOR GOD
According to Gnostics, the creator god has many plans, which together make up his “grand plan”. This was the reason why he created the universe and man. To achieve his objectives he is going ahead with an evolutionary experiment in which the body, soul and the Spirit of man are taking part. He goes on practicing, trying things out, and if he succeeds he will extend the results to his entire created universe. If he fails, he will have to do away with this project and start again from scratch, as he has done so many times, to try something else again and again. The fact is that he will never be able to make a perfect copy of what he imagined is the unknowable world, which he tries to imitate in vain.
Without a doubt, in this last experiment he achieved success which, although imperfect, has some value. After millions of years of fruitless practicing, he has within a few thousand years made a notable step in the evolution of his greatest work: man. After millions of years of evolutionary suspension in which the hominid man lived like just another animal, he has advanced more in the last 30,000 years than throughout all of history. Gnostics associate this mutation or “creation”, this great evolutionary jump, with the use of Spirits of the greatest purity coming from the uncreated world.
The creator god modelled a body from the dust of the earth and, with his breath, gave it an animic element, the soul. To this soul, this breath of the creator, he affixed a Spirit, which was trapped through trickery and imprisoned against Its will in this satanic monstrosity of dust and breath: the body and soul of man. It is the divine energy of the imprisoned Spirit which impelled and continues to impel the evolution of the man-animal!
And why does the creator want this being to evolve? So that it will transform itself gradually into him. That is why he made his precepts and commands. He wants man to transform into himself, the creator, to become the same as him. The body and soul would be very happy if this happened because they are part of the creator god. But the Spirit is not part of him; It has another origin and another destiny.
As long as the Spirit is chained up, everything goes well, It impels evolution. But if even one Spirit frees Itself It disturbs the whole plan. That is why it is so important that the tyranny of the demiurge is absolute, and that all knowledge which could wake man up and make him remember who he really is, remains forbidden because it would be dangerous knowledge, so dangerous that it would be able to destabilise the plan of the creator god. According to Gnosis, only one Spirit which can free Itself would be able to weaken the whole creation and also weaken the creator god, preventing him from continuing with his plans. This Spirit would be a saviour, a saviour of the world and the other Spirits. It would favour the liberation not only of other men but of the entire universe, of the innumerable divine sparks coming from the uncreated and eternal world which find themselves imprisoned here, in this great blind machine, in order to make it work and evolve.
This system, created by the demiurge, cannot function unless it possesses these particles of the Spiritual world enslaved, imprisoned here. Gnostics say that of all these Spiritual particles, those imprisoned in human beings are the most important in Spiritual hierarchy and purity.
The demiurge created and assembled all this and encourages it to evolve. So that it evolves towards him, with the human being ahead. If the experiment with man fails, he will lay his hands on another of his creatures and try again.
We have said that the demiurge wants man to evolve until he turns into him and becomes the same as him, so that every soul, or in other words his own breath, and everyone made of dust can return to him, transforming themselves into him. This is the final objective that the demiurge has for man.
Because of all this, it is fundamental to the demiurge to keep the Spirit imprisoned so that he can use Its energy. This is why the demiurge needs man to remain half-asleep and confused so that man keeps on blindly approaching him, the creator, who lures him with tricks and punishment. For this whole system to work, man has to keep on believing that the creator is the only god that exists and that he is a good god.
Gnostics maintain that if man evolves to the point where he merges with his creator, at that moment his Spirit will lose all possibility of freeing itself while this universe lasts.
Jim Sutherland

[777]

Hi Jim
Did U invent all that yourself
or do U have a reference
like the Gnostic Philokalia
and if so
which volume / page
I have 5 volumes here

Glad U mentioned that a Soul is the original Creator Herself?
so, there is no problem ; only some filling of "eternity"
I remember perhaps from Sar Bachan
"For this reason I created Kal, . . because without Kal Man has no respect"

Where is the Love aspect?

Always very nice to read U Sir

Gé 777

[Jim Sutherland]

@Ge777, I didn’t author the Article, and don’t remember where I copied it from, many years ago. I had filed in my Sant Mat File, labeled Kal. I have always identified Kal with the Gnostic Demiurge, and also Universal Mind.
Sorry for my typos above, as I was recovering from Cataract surgery and was experiencing double vision. I had both eyes done, and am OK now.
Jim Sutherland

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

I wanted to give brother Kranvir a chance to describe his version of Kal. As the subject for me keeps me fascinated, for I've heard many versions on Kal & origins.

The version I'm familiar with is the Julian P. Johnson version from his ..The Path of the Masters..

(Quote)
"..the Nagative Power. With him we must contend in our struggles for spiritual freedom. It is his duty to try to hold us here, while it is our duty to try to escape. The resulting struggle purges us and makes us strong, and fits us for our homeward journey.. "..this struggle.. designed by the Supreme [F]ather to purge us and make us clean, ready for our home.." ..Let us never become discouraged.." ..All ..designed by the Father for our benefit. It is much as if one enters a gymnasium to take exercise. If we meet these difficulties in the right spirit, we shall greatly profit by them.." -quoting; Ch. V, sub. 7

[Kranvir]

The gnostics version is closest to the truth.
The creator god is the demiurge/ kaal/ jot niranjan/ shiva/ aliens ..etc. Have you ever wondered why the snake gurinder singh dhillon always praises kaal for doing aeons of meditation and then being given souls as a reward. Incidentally, the lord of meditation is shiva , look it up , and gurinder dhillon the villion initiates using third eye meditation ( one of kaals meditation). Why else does he call "jot niranjan" in his mantra - the light of the devil. Yes, the creator God, kaal, of this cosmos uses light projection, the so-called light - and this is literally who you worship or want to become like - as gnostics say all meditation leads to this fake ass wannabe god. All religions lead to this fake ass god. Gurinder singh dhillon is kaals' latest puppet for spreading negative energies to capture his so-called lost sheep. Sheep get slaughtered, don't they? The reality is that gurinder is here to take anyone of any religion , he doesn't care who you are, the story of marked sheep is nonsense - he loves the suffering of souls, and lies comfortably without any remorse

[Jim Sutherland]

@Kranvir,…..in your opinion, what is your final destination of your Higher Self, assuming you will ever discover the Key of Knowledge that shows you the Way of escaping the Prison of the Demiurge? In order to escape, wouldn’t that indicate total disintegration of your individual Higher Self soul group?
Jim Sutherland

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"The gnostics version is closest to the truth."

Posted by: Kranvir | April 24, 2024 at 01:55 PM

I must concede, for the Philokalia is new to me.

[Kranvir]

Only the destined chosen one will get the knowingness of god consciousness and realise the secrets and truth of the universe. Like wise kaal, has his negative puppets out in full force to delude humans in earth - which is a living hell. The biggest deceiver out there is Kaal gurinder singh dhillon, who works with others , be they politicians, elites , and religious leaders in any hierarchy to exercise their total control over mankind. They come as cloaked good guys, in charaties - ever wondered why gurinder Snake dhillon opened up the dera for covid but at the same times redirects the beas river to obtain nearby farm land for next to nothing - the works of a narsassist or terrorist !!! Fake ass good and bad are two sides of the same coin - kaal gurinder dhillon. Fake ass baba of beas, can never truly answer a question, but deflects issues and redirects it to the worship of his master, kaal, and kaals meditation. Little do the blind people know that gurinder is snidely the pied piper leading gullable foolish people to the belly of the beast. Gurinder, when people awaken from there sleep they will want justice for their waste of life at rssb, their sacifice of time from their real loved ones, and then there will be no where to hide for you - karma will be served.

[Trez]

Gurinder Singh Dhillon is NOT who we think he is.
He is the Devil incarnated as a man who has come down to take souls back to his Hell which he calls Sachkand.

He uses the 5 name meditation which is riddled with Satan's real name, to take souls back to the Devil himself.

He himself is a lying deceptive Baba who lives off the Sangats money and Flys Fist Class all over the world.
Never worked a day in his life, well he did work as a Waiter in Spain but how does a Waiter Fly first class?

He uses the sangats seva money, that's how.

How shameful is that not a " Honest living" is it Gurinder.

Satan himself Hides behind a viel of Gurinder Singh Dhilion that's who he really is , look again and see the ugly truth that Gurinder Singh Dhilion is.

[Anna Kronberg]

The RSSB website‘s statement on the clot shot is an endorsement of the shot. It does not discourage, but encourages people to get it; that is to say, to get permanent DNA alteration (serving the transhuman, control agenda of psychopaths), debilitation and death (depopulation, aka murder). This is absolutely diabolic. No being of Light (supposedly from Sach Khand) could or would be part of inflicting such mental, emotional, physical and/or spiritual pain on unsuspecting creatures. The supreme, uppermost commandment is “do no harm” (the third vow). Clearly, that is not operative here. Hello Houston, we have a problem.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"The RSSB website‘s statement on the clot shot is an endorsement of the shot. It does not discourage, but encourages people to get it; that is to say, to get permanent DNA alteration.. ..Houston, we have a problem."

Posted by: Anna Kronberg | May 04, 2024 at 05:49 AM

Pardon me madam,

But if you reread the main RSSB website, there is only 1 general guideline, leaving the rest of choice up to us:

https://rssb.org/covid-vaccines.html
(Quoting)
"..When it comes to the problems we face in life, we satsangis – like everyone else – must make our own decisions. It is neither practical nor desirable for Dera to give specific instructions on every ambiguous issue that arises. As a general guideline, the Master is not against vaccines.."

[Javier Lopez]

Mr. Rahmann, you are not addressing the substance of the post made by Ms. Kronberg, whose sentiment I have empathy for.

You must fully read the RSSB statement, and quote it in it’s entirety so as not to be misleading.

The assertion that this official statement does not discourage taking the shot is 100% accurate. It dies not keep people out if harm’s way.

The website says that there is a lot of confusion about the shots, It then goes on to say that: (1) one should consider the number of lives the shot has saved, (2) that the Master is generally not against vaccines, and (3) that Dera personnel have had the shot. Additionally, it is known that GSD had the shot.

In short, this doesn’t read as a discouragement, but rather an endorsement of the shots (despite the ambiguous disclaimer you quote). Unambiguous, moral clarity was required in order to avoid injury and death. The above statements and actions clearly lack in this regard. Sadly, Ms. Kronberg is correct.

It is now well known — and admitted to — that alternate and highly effective therapies existed to handle a Covid infection (one Indian state applied them and stopped covid dead in its tracks within that state in 2 weeks). It is equally well known that the shots caused millions and millions of avoidable and horrible deaths, as well as countless injuries, the results of which many still suffer to this day. The Inventor of the mRNA shot, former high Pfizer executives and actuarial experts are only some of the legions who have provided the proof for these findings. Moreover, the experts who forecasted this tragedy early on have steadfastly continued to warn of further carnage as the damaged immune systems of those who had the shot (particularly those who took the boosters) continues to weaken them into a premature death.

Experts who were right about the havoc those shots would wreck have also emphatically stated that the shot didn’t save one life. According to them, the weren’t designed to do so!

Anybody doubting the veracity of the above statements has not done their homework and is part of the problem. Such people do themselves, their family and their community no good. The facts can easily be found on the internet. They are scientific, statistically accurate and convincing without a shadow of doubt.

As regards GSD, the terribly depressing and horrible conclusion one is left with is that he was a part of the problem. The reasons and motives are open for conjecture, but equivocating on the shots did not uphold the Satsangi vow of doing no harm, something a Master is expected to follow to perfection as an example to his disciples. Something a Being that is all love can’t help but do flawlessly. That didn’t happen here.

That said, the fact that the Dera extended support, food and lodging to those caught in the whirlwind of the pandemic is commendable: a humanitarian move in the best of the MCS and RSSB tradition.

DO NOT ENGAGE IN SOPHISTRY AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK MR. RAHMANN.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"DO NOT ENGAGE IN SOPHISTRY AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK"

Posted by: Javier Lopez | May 05, 2024 at 12:19 AM

Sophistry?
What is this word?

I only presented a link, so anyone can read it for themselves and make their own decision if my statement on this matter was truth or falsehood.

But where are your links Mr. Lopez?

[Javier Lopez]

@Rahmaan

I am not here to win an argument against you. Think of my comments as a humanitarian gesture, or a kind attempt to assist you.

Said differently, If you are not interested to know the truth, or are too lazy to get the facts yourself (I gave you all the pointers you needed, now—as I said — DO YOUR HOMEWORK)), then you are only hurting the well-being of yourself, your family and your community.

My job is not to do the work you must do to know the truth. It is not even my job to tell you what the truth or facts are.

If you prefer to remain ignorant, then do as you please.

That is your problem, not mine.

Conversation finished.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"The facts can easily be found on the internet."

Posted by: Javier Lopez | May 05, 2024 at 12:19 AM

Your facts have no links.

Your facts suggest others to use a Search Engine.

My facts HAVE a link to an Original site.

Does this sound like I'm arguing?

If so, I'm glad you agree that my facts DO EXIST:

"..read the RSSB statement, and quote it in it’s entirety.."

Posted by: Javier Lopez | May 05, 2024 at 12:19 AM

I've read it. Linked to my FACTS. You ramble with NO facts, no LINKS, nothing even close to informative. Then say you've done ANY favors? If rambling is a favor.. NO THANKS

[s*]

Javier,
You are right!!!

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

Javier,
You are right!!!

Posted by: s* | May 07, 2024 at 01:57 AM

Right about what?

Hazur Maharaj Charan Singh Ji wasn't against medicinal drugs nor injections also -as he said himself in Divine Light. I posted it earlier, here:

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2024/03/a-charan-singh-initiate-says-that-gurinder-singh-is-not-who-he-is-believed-to-be.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e202c8d3b02908200b#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e202c8d3b02908200b

Another thing, got the jab. Had blood clots too. But you don't see me complaining about it do you? Yep, had to restart my heart. And I'll be back in Samurai form in no time ;)

[cocoanma]

"I believe in Ishwara, who resides within and around us. God, or Ishwara, is present everywhere and in all living beings. Ultimately, everything is unified in oneness." I recommend this site.