« Buddhism, pain and pleasure are not the same | Main | Concepts can't be avoided and are different from thoughts »

June 29, 2023


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

>>But religion never comes up with anything newsworthy about the nature of the cosmos. That's because religions deal in dogma, not facts<<

Maybe it has nothing to do with religion and science. and is it a matter of nature vs culture or even the function of the brain.

If a child is hungry, whatever the parents put before it, will be eaten with joy and leaves the child with satisfaction.

If there is no hunger, parents have to come up with ever new "tasty" things to make the child eat.

Water can be taking in without that it loses it appeal, as it is tasteless. Tasteless doesn't mean it has no taste, it has, but the taste it has cannot me described.

Adding taste will create the necessity to endless change and whatever taste is added, none will deliver that satisfaction that is found in, quenching thirst.

Taste, is like everything else, an unique variation of the same.
Sameness is "horizontal ' and "vertical" contraction, uniqueness variations are spreading horizontal and vertical into the endless emptiness

There has been no end to the desire for ever new explanations, presentation of the same mystical teachings ... the same holds for so called "laws of nature" The same all compassing law that governs the existence of nature, is time an again, artificial split intio unique variations of that same one law..

Some are fond of that sameness and other love the 10.000 things that are born from it.

"This discovery shows why I love science so much."

Haha, I so so SO empathize with that sentiment!

This news story had caught my eye as well. And that is exactly what my reaction was when I read it: first, obviously, the wonder of the discovery itself, and everything that implies; and equally, the wonder of us puny humans, the merest ants crawling around on the surface of this immensity, being able to probe so deeply into the nature of reality; and all of that leading to a complete total appreciation of the wonder that is science.

This is a remarkable achievement. The symphony of teamwork of scientists over decades who have come to agreement on key principles, and their painstaking work to see, to review, to analyze, to interpret, even to understand each other's take. They worked for years, and many of the scientists working over these decades did not live to see these results. Certainly Einstein isn't here today to read the research article linked above. That greater outcome was not required for their painstaking effort and dedication, faith and discipline. These scientists weren't working to confirm. That was beyond those who died before the completion and publication of the study. They were working to learn, and as they learned, they contributed their data for others to finalize.

But the human miracle of science and how it is conducted is no more amazing than the reality behind it.

Yes, it helps verify an existing theory. But what of the new theories to come? Science can't simply verify the past conjectures and theories without bumping into a few anomalies that will require entirely new thinking, just as these current findings verify the new thinking of the past. The history of Science is the strongest possible evidence that what we don't know today, we may tomorrow, and we will be astonished.

There are two things to understand about these results:

1. Gravity is not a detectable energy or particle. It can only be detected by its effect on other sources of energy and matter. Like emptiness, gravity can only be measured by the other things within it and how they are affected.

The vast distances between celestial bodies have no detectable intermediary to explain how one body pulls upon the other. But the fact can be readily seen and measured, that these bodies are connected.

2. The mechanisms of measurement, of the effect of Gravity on other things, come from three sources:
A. the movement of celestial bodies themselves, their orbits, speed, distances from one another and mass.
B. the effect of gravity's pull upon all detectable matter and energy moving through the galaxy, such as the frequency and amplitude of pulsars, light waves, electromagnetic fields. When two forces affect one another, you get waves of interaction. When the crest of a wave moves from one object to another you can note the effect on one then another by measuring the time delay between the two. Gravity waves can be detected and measured as they move across the galaxy.
C., The effect of gravity's pull upon all matter right here on earth. Detecting those waves across two beams of energy, two lasers (LIGO), also generates another source of evidence as well that doesn't require any celestial data. This is evidence that gravity pulls from very distant sources, and moves at a pace that can be measured, in waves of interaction with all sources of matter and energy. And the direction and pace can be mathematically modeled back to its source.

Spirituality has a similar corollary. It may appear on the surface entirely empty. It can't be measured directly as a specific object or energy. It has no corporeal existence that can be isolated from everything else.

Spirituality can only be detected subtly by its affect upon us, and our perceptions. And that effect appears to be universal, it goes through all matter and energy. You can see its pull on others even when they aren't aware, and in retrospect, its pull on us, even when we weren't looking and weren't aware.

Spiritual adherents, serious about their practice, follow a few similar disciplines to dedicated scientists in that they avoid making conclusive statements, but work to deepen their detection and understanding of the spiritual experience within themselves.They note carefully the results of their practice, and how that practice is influenced. And they care not that they may work their entire lives without a firm conclusion that can be proven to anyone else. They have something there, and they may have a theory about it, but they are there to learn, not confirm.

Yes, this info about pulsars will make life so much better for all of us. (?)

What else have scientists given us lately to make the world a better place?
1) Vaccines that have no proven efficacy and are causing young people catastrophic health problems.
2) Grossly alarmist public health prescriptions for that virus that caused huge damage to young people and the world economy. Fauciism.
3) Grossly alarmist climate predictions going back several decades, none of which came true, the latest costing trillions of dollars to be wasted.
4) The opinion that children can choose their own "genders" and delay puberty with drugs, and chop off parts of their body.
5) The pharma industry in general, and the view that drugs will be our salvation.
6) The food industry in general, which has "scientific proof" that carbs are good for us. Meanwhile, one in 5 adults is obese and on the road to type 2 diabetes. You know, the disease that Gurinder Singh the lifelong vegetarian has.

There's no doubt that scientists have saved more lives anyone else. I just offer all of the above as a counterpoint to the idea that science will save us. This "science will save us" and is all we need idea has been around for a very long time. But in a corollary to the proverb, man does not live on science alone.

What are we supposed to do with this info on pulsars? I suppose we can read about it and feel exultation, but the same is true in reading Sar Bachan. For some people anyway.

But science didn't have anything to do with the remaking of the barren wasteland where now the RSSB dera stands, a religious center that feeds and gives medical support to thousands of people daily. That is, the motive for the dera's existence was and is "religious people." The needs of the people served by the dera aren't served by "look at this info on pulsars!"

Our needs are often not served by science. Often, science, or what's offered as "scientific truth," can be quite counterproductive to actual human progress.

I suppose the author of this piece had good intentions, but I wonder if he realizes that his theme is always the tearing down of institutions, ideas, beliefs. There's never any attempt to strike a balance, or give a balanced assessment of the place of religion in this world. Every essay he writes is a Jacobin screed that strawmans all religious believers as public enemies.

I mean, seriously, are religious believers actually "anti science"? Are they holding protests to demand that universities shut down their astronomy departments? Are they burning books that offer info on pulsars?

We're told that the great thing about science is that it's wonderfully self-correcting. Wonderfully honest about admitting its mistakes as it labors ever onward toward truth. Yes, this is true, but it's not absolutely true. Scientists today are bound by an unprecedented orthodoxy, and are quite as much beholden to money as is any other industry.

For that reason, it's as much a mistake to venerate a scientist as it is to venerate a guru. Both are quite fallible. Both can be more influenced by ego and ideology than they would ever care to admit, and loath to ever admit they're wrong -- or even deign to debate with their critics. So says Hotez.

So too our social scientists, who are often quite as faithful to their beloved thesis, and would sooner jump off a cliff than admit error. For years they talk of a politicians collusion with a foreign government, and when that's proven a hoax they're silent. They talk of a guru's obvious guilt in a financial scheme, and when that DeraGate fell apart, they likewise remain silent. So they delve into dark conspiracy theories about the guru murdering his wife and threatening his critics with death. Somehow, they're the only media outlet publishing such stuff, which to me either can mean they're as groundbreakingly sage as the National Enquirer in being first to tell us that Bruce had breasts, or they've gone Alex Jones on us.

But perhaps in the fullness of time they're be proven right about the guru. What a day that will be. Malvinder will be fully Malvindicated, Gurinder will be sent to prison for suborning embezzlement and murder. Perhaps the evidence will come from the shell companies.

Speaking of shell companies, I wonder who made more of them. The Dhillons or the Bidens?

Oh yea, may the truth be out.

Now scientists can objectively prove what Shakespeare wrote, and every mystic enjoys hearing, that the stars sing and there is music in each of us and all things.

"Look how the floor of heaven
Is thick inlaid with patines of bright gold:
There's not the smallest orb which thou behold'st
But in his motion like an angel sings,
Still quiring to the young-eyed cherubins;
Such harmony is in immortal souls;
But whilst this muddy vesture of decay
Doth grossly close it in, we cannot hear it."

William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

There’s quite a bit of research that shows that’s it’s not a coincidence that modern science arose in the West and not elsewhere- the crucial distinctive ingredient being Christianity .

Hi Cassiodorous

You wrote
"There’s quite a bit of research that shows that’s it’s not a coincidence that modern science arose in the West and not elsewhere- the crucial distinctive ingredient being Christianity ."

Modern science, if you mean today's science, happens internationally from all cultures. Where did it actually arise?

It is really a matter of what one is reading, the stories one reads in history books.

Today, with the availability of the internet, one can find the scientific contributions from all cultures around the world throughout recorded history.

"As well as giving us the concept of zero, Indian mathematicians made seminal contributions to the study of trigonometry, algebra, arithmetic and negative numbers among other areas. Perhaps most significantly, the decimal system that we still employ worldwide today was first seen in India. "


Without zero there would be no ratio scale, no measurement, no statistics, no probability, which are the foundational tools of all modern scientific research.

Newton could not have invented Calculus without the Italian Fibbonaci's Liber Abaci. And Fibbonaci could not have developed his understanding of numbers without the concept of Zero, quadratic equations and the square root, first explained in the seventh center AD by Hindu astronomer and mathematician Brahmagupta...

Hey Spencer ,

Sure , all civilizations have done science . Absolutely . But my comment was aimed at pushing back on the notion that religion ( at least the Christian religion) is somehow contrary to scientific inquiry . The greatest advancements in scientific knowledge emerged from the intellectual - spiritual matrix of western Christendom. And as I alluded to , that’s not a coincidence .

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.