Open Thread 45 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

Remember, off-topic comments should go in an Open Thread. 

If you don't see a recent comment, or comments, posted, it might be because you've failed to follow the above rule. Keep to the subject of a blog post if you leave a comment on it. And if you want to use this blog as a "chat room," do that in an open thread.

As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Personal attacks on someone are an exception, as is hate speech. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[Appreciative Reader]

Indeed, praise the guru. Praise God. Praise all His angels. Praise all Saints.

The orange scumbag has been indicted, finally. Hallelujah!

In other news Bi-effing-bi looks like heading the same way. Hopefully.

Perhaps the world's changing, a bit? Might the nightmare be lifting? Could it be that the world is finally being cleansed of the brazenly lying hypocritical right-wing filth that had seemed to be overrunning it, the world over?

Call me Pollyanna, but one can hope, when there's at least a sliver of possibility that all isn't quite lost, that sanity and right and wrong haven't lost all meaning.

Praise Jesus. Praise Amida Buddha. Allah hu akbar. Jibber jabber jabber hallelujah.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi again, AR Let me give one more personal example from my own Sant Mat experience. In the past claims were made about Sant Mat, in particular, RSSB, that it requires belief in the Master as God In Human Form. I pointed out that there is no such vow required. Even an atheist can become a Satsangi if they are sincere about following the vows and working diligently to advance their own meditation progress. The vows are not vows of devotion or belief, merely guidelines to support a life of development in meditation practice.

This was how I understood the path when I first learned about it. I was initiated with a group that includes engineers from Rocketdyne and Cal Tech. We took Sant Mat from a scientific perspective, and having seen astounding scientific truths emerge in our own areas of professional interest were not about to dismiss anything out of hand. Not one single person initiated in our group believed the Master was anything more than a teacher of meditation, and they justified this by quoting Maharaji, Sawan and Juget, three Masters, who all instructed initiates to carry no other belief, and to let their emerging experience become their Truth moving forward. The fact that there are no vows requiring any statement of belief whatsoever appealed greatly to us and I don't think we would have applied for Initiation had there been any such requirement.

Now, having said this it is also quite clear, and visible, that traditional Satsangis were deeply connected to the path as a devotional path with the Master as, basically, their Christ on earth. Within one single system you have such a large span. But this is also so in Christianity, in Judaism, and most other schools of belief and practice. Indeed, if you read the book of Ecclesiastes and the book of Job in the Holy Bible you find Atheism's best arguments that today form the foundation of most modern tenets of Atheism ('From the dirt I came and to the dirt I will return and no one has ever come back to say otherwise'). In Judaism the claim is made that no one can actually know God. So, therefore any human definition is going to be at best subjective.

[Spence Tepper]

Here is a direct quote that reflects what many of us understood about Sant Mat when we were initiated...written by the Great Master in Dawn of Light.. "An individual may follow any religion he professes, but everyone can practice the science of spirituality and conduct the experiment of connecting the soul with the Lord within....in order to realize God, he has to enter the laboratory of his body in the same manner as a student of science enters his Laboratory. "

Now you may also find many quotations where mystics, including, for example, the founder of Sant Mat, Shiv Dayal Singh, and Jaimal Singh, who advised that progress could only be made by regarding the Master as God and devoting oneself entirely to him / her. How can both teachings exist within the same school? Happens all the time.

It's a matter of our own subjective understanding, what that needs to be to facilitate practice and adopting an observant, positive and open mind to our practice. Some need to have their Christ. Others need to take a calmer observant approach. Some need a path of love and devotion. Others need a path that dismisses all notions and emotion, and in place replaces direct perception.... A path of knowledge. These are merely different approaches to the practice of meditation as the laboratory for actual direct discovery and repeated verification and testing