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January 24, 2023


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I get the point that mentally chanting a mantra all day would effectively distance someone from other people, nature, and many other things. Although this seems to be an extreme form of the practice having only chanted perhaps once a day during retreat. I can also see how chanting, or simply mentally repeating any words or perhaps a song can stop unwelcome thoughts.

Yes, Mindfulness meditation is more about accepting whatever is present in reality, so if I need to choose, I would go for meditation rather than continually having to be chanting a mantra. Meditation seems more natural particularly as it is really just about paying attention.

But even so, after saying that and although I sit for a short period every morning, I realise that no amount of meditation or stilling the mind can ever bring one nearer to ‘what you are’ simply because it reinforces that idea that there is a ‘me’, an ‘I’ that can find something. I simply like to sit following my stretching exercises.

I don’t believe for one minute that, other than making a pleasant start to the day, followed by breakfast, meditation (or a mantra) is going to give me ‘enlightenment’ apart from perhaps the occasional uplifting experiences.

It all seems to be an actual avoidance from what one’s self is – a mental construct, a story, that continually needs maintaining. Methods of meditation and mantras, do just that – along with all the other self-perpetuating actions. And unfortunately, apart from just simply being, there is no satisfying answer'

"Again, though, you may disagree. This is just my experience. "


Fair enough, Brian.

Actually, I'd say that's been my experience, as well. I've experienced absorption with both mantra (and its accompanying paraphernalia), as well as with breath. But in my case I guess the absorption has been deeper, as well as easier to arrive at, with breath.

What I'd found a bit off, was what I thought was you generalizing about this. As well as the particular arguments you'd brought to bear --- and I'd discussed why, in some detail, in the other thread.

If you're simply discussing your own personal experience, then there's no question of contesting that. Indeed, and like I said, that agrees with my experience as well.

RSSB mantra meditation incolves repetition of satanic mantra - they are far from holy. You are literally calling and surrendering your vessel to kaal , the negative power. The first word , jot nirunjan, means light of the devil.
The so call 5 names were only introduced by jamiel, the founder of rssb beas who never ever met soami ji. The agra babas only had 1 mantra of satnam. So question the first question is why introduce 5 names (the first one being demonic) when originally there was only 1 name to repeat as a mantra. Secondly ask yourself why in satsangs you hear people crying or jerking about uncontrollably like they're having a stroke or fit especially just as the so called master comes in and goes on his stage - this has been witnessed many times when Gurinder S dhillon, kaal, goes on stage. This isn't natural, but looks more like a possesion by another entity. Beware what you get entangled in, question everything.

@Kranvir. satnam also contains the word satan, as does sant mat. Just sayin.

The first name can also mean 'lord of light', who is obviously the devil in GOT.

@ Brian Ji [ Mindfulness accepts whatever is present in reality, gently dealing with feelings, thoughts, and other things that need redirecting not through force, but by welcoming them as they are, then altering their direction with minimal exertion. ]

I believe mystic meditative technique emphatically does encourage mindfulness
rather than forceful redirection. The latter can easily devolve into suppression by
brute force or into a tug-of-war engagement with the obstinate mind. The more
effective way mystics say is to gently resume repeating the mantra. Exactly like
the mindfulness method of "welcoming them as they are, then altering their
direction with minimal exertion".

What is not recommended is to answer, argue, analyse, reason with, bribe, humour
the interruption in any way other than exit #1, i.e., resume the mantra. Euthanize
the thought, feeling, or image gently, humanely. Shut off its air supply. Send it kindly
into that good night. Otherwise you may win every battle in the war for your attention,
but you will lose the war.

Not so much about which particular kind of meditation; but "meditating" a bit over your comment, Ron, and the kind of thing you say here:

Once this is truly internalized, why then the constant running, the endless frenetic expanding and achieving? A quiescent withdrawal to the bare minimum, and sedate observation of oneself and the world, would seem to make sense then. A Buddha-esque monasticism, in effect if not in every letter of it, in effect the Zen-ic drawing water chopping food. The frenetic Darwin-esque "Nature red in tooth and claw" seems violently out of place with the realization of who and what one truly is --- a chimera, merely.

Then again, does it necessarily follow, that attitude? Might it simply be a function of one's own inherent proclivities, and not a more general condition common to all humanity, even despite that realization? Haha, even with oneself, might it indicate simply that one's gone too long without the elixir of life, and a nice hot aromatic strong mug of black ----- Mmmmm! ------ might set that right, and put the get-up-and-go right back inside of one, regardless of how chimaraic (chimeratic? chimeraish? chimera-like) the self might be, and regardless of how closely one internalizes that idea?

Firstly, I relinquished my participation in RSSB a few years after Gurinda took the mantle of Master. When I was initiated in May of 1976 in Riverside California, I had a overwhelmingly subliminal thought running in my background thoughts( YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE 2/1/2 HOUR MEDITATION PER DAY).
Of course being a 26 year old disfunctional man, I did not have the courage to stand up then in there and tell Dr.De Vries , I am out of here.
The decades I spent in guilt and associated negative side effects was in hindsight totally predictable.
My point at this juncture of my life, 72 years old, is mantra vs awareness of the now can be blended into my daily life.
I repeat the RSSB mantra as it may happen, I practice yoga breathing techniques etc.
What I do now, is not try to throw shade on RSSB. Some deciples of RSSB are my dearest friends. I have now gone to a few Dutch Satsangs and give love and receive love as it comes.
The Satsangs are in my view fatalistic in their core message. But who am I to argue with my dearest of friends about this. They, my RSSB brothers and sisters, are trying to better themselves and I want only what is the very best for them. Who am I to throw shade on their spiritual quest. After all( I am a nobody, another lost one, caught between what’s left and what needs to be done).

>> They, my RSSB brothers and sisters, are trying to better themselves and I want only what is the very best for them. Who am I to throw shade on their spiritual quest.<<

Hahaha ... have some coffee Martin.

I will be 81 in a week. I have done my Mantra Meditation that I posted here some time ago, since 1988. I only did the 2-1/2 hours in a single sitting, for the 1st 7 years. Then, because of work and changes pf life schedules, I broke it up in to 2 or more shorter sittings, as I am still doing. But we ALL should have Goals in mind of what we are trying to accomplish . Are we looking to verify that our deceased loved ones survived and are in some After life, in the Astral, or Causal Realms? Or, are we meditating to merge in to the One? Or to burn and balance Karmas? But if we never receive ANY Inner experiences, as MOST of the Exers in this Churchless Church report, ….then many just quit. I’m no different than any others, but I have never quit. I am not a Gurinder Fan, or Disciple, as I was initiated by Charan , and have never been able to recognize any of the Spirituality in Gurinder that I saw in Charan. But I have not rejected Gurinder Initiates, in spite of my rejecting Gurinder.
I posted a recent cherished Inner experience on another forum I am a member of, the TMI Monroe Institute where their main Goal is to induce Out of Body experiences, Astral Project, and explore the Spiritual realms. Many posters there report interesting experiences, and have written books about their adventures, such as the Book, “Multidimensional Man.”
I shared my recent experience there, a couple of weeks ago, which has become quite popular. Of course, it most likely will be rejected by the Skeptics here, as was rejected when I reported my inner visit from Charan Singh around 2015 or 6. But any way, I’ll share it here to get a few laughs and poo poos. Here it is.

Well Friends,….now that I have pretty much undressed to become naked and expose my heretic religeous beliefs before my FB friends, “exposing” my Spiritual “beliefs” regarding survival of our soul , after physical death, and the many posts about how to achieve confirmation that is mysterious , such as surviving in an “After Life” , must sound like only wishful thinking, to not only Atheists, but even to Dogmatic religious fundamentalists who are locked in the tiny box of their belief systems! The following was quoted in the Bible by “some one” to have said,…”Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Hebrews 11:1. But SUBSTANCE means some thing real, not imaginary. So, until our faith is proven by substance, we just remain hoping for illusions that may not be real, or obtainable.
So, here is a good example of how some more of my dormant faith was Graced by real manifested SUBSTANCE! This example should be used by friends who grieve for their lost loved ones and friends , who have passed on, either recently, or long ago! It was a real Gift to me, of which I do not know WHO to thank, so I just keep thanking “The Lord!” I posted the following in a Metaphysical group I am a member of, yesterday.

I told my Wife about it 2 minutes after I came out of meditation! Such Gifts should be shared, not hidden nor worrying about who believes or disbelieves it.
Here was my Post yesterday morning to the group:

“ Guess what? I had VIP Visitors in my early morning Meditation, 90 minutes in. I wasn’t going to share it here, as it was private for me, but sharing , reminds me to not forget it. At the starting induction of my Meditation, I was complaining, addressing whom ever was ignoring me. I asked either my Higher Self, Spiritual Guides, Masters, Jesus, as well as all of my friends and relatives who have passed on to the After Life, ( assuming there is a real After Life other than in other people’s books, ) and OBEr’s and APer’s, and LDer’s reports. I complained in my Prayer, “How come no one on the other side ever comes to visit me, as Jurgen’s Father and Mother did in is his book? “
Well, I was Lucid, in OBE, but still sitting up right in my meditation recliner chair. But I was in a completely different place , in an unfamiliar room to me, that I never recognized. The room had big clear glass windows, with an entry door also of clear glass. My Wife hollered from another room,….”you have Visitors.” I never moved from my chair , as I saw a man and women looking at me through the big windows, looking for the entry door. I watched them move to the door,….open it, and walk in! I recognised them immediately. They were my Father and Mother, appearing in their prime. I’d estimate in their mid 40s. Dad walked right to me, knelt down and put his arms around me, offering his cheek for a kiss. I gave him a long hard hug, and kissed his cheek. It was warm. He needed a shave. He was wearing a plaid red Pentelton shirt I had bought him for Xmas before he died. I asked him how long it took them to get “here”, and how long they planned to stay. Mom answered, but I forgot what she said. Dad died of a heart attack in 1991 at 71, and Mom survived to the ripe old age of a week short of 98! So, no doubt, we met in the Astral Realm, some where, where I was experiencing my Multidimensional life, while having an OBE, , while Mom & Dad were together in their After Life, in an Astral Realm some where, where we connected!
There was no other furniture in the room where we met, other than the recliner chair I was sitting in doing meditation. The room had hard wood floors, no carpeting or rug. I could hear their shoes walking on the floor.
Jim Sutherland

@ Jim

In the past I have written several times that I do believe that there have been people like Mozes and Abraham, that had experiences, in which the divine gave them orders and made a promise about a piece of this earth being their eternal heritage as the divine's chosen people.

Why should I or anybody else not believe it?

The experience and its content, is not the problem, the problem lies somewhere else.

You see Jim, that same divine power that appeared before Moses and the likes never appeared before me, informing and confirming about what happened to Moses

Of course what is mentions as "ME" means everybody else!

So what we have here is just the report of ONE man, the hearsay. Nothing more nothing less.

Then there is something else to consider aswell. What happened to Moes etc is related to the very string need of his tribe ... being nomadic they were in need of land.

So al these contents are closely related to very strong NEEDS of the persons having these experiences

Making it true:
Seek a ye shall find
ask and you will be given
your believe has saved you.

The mind is a wonderful [creative] thing

Hahaha, um, that's very gently and very respectfully saying what a less considerate soul might express more directly and more abrasively. I respect that: other things being equal, better respectful than otherwise, and better considerate than otherwise. Other things being equal.



The cover photo on the book shows how we are projections of our Higher Selves, which are projections of The Lord.

Jim Sutherland

@ Jim

It just shows what the writer / artist has in mind as to what he things, believes, convinced is to be the reality.

We exist and we experience .. that is all there is.

There is no way of answering the questions about their source. Parents tell the children fake stories to get rid of their questions. Later when adult people create these [fake] stories to find peace of mind, Some are more creative than others, more detailed, more complex.

@ Jim

Like all of us I am taught from birth on to believe that whatever there is to be known is .. OUT THERE. ... in the lime light of the world and to be had from EXPERTS .. scientists, mystics and more.

A little late in my life or may be not ... I realized that it is not in my power to verify and even understand what these EXPERTS have to say as I am not an expert myself. Whatever I thought to know turned out to be hearsay .. the talk of an parrot.

These days I do my best to get this "knowledge" out of my system. as just being an useless burden ...and to accept that there is very, very little left.

Simple put ... I am not an Einstein and I do not understand what he is talking about, let alone wheter is true or not ..Nor am I an Kabir I do not understand his language of love.

That said do hold on to whatever you have as long as you can ..this mental dessert is not for all ... hahaha and you have to love coffee.

The Author of the Matrix Books claims to retain vivid memory of his last 1600 lives.

@ Jim

That being the case ... YOU ...you Jim Sutherland, have no means to verify what he says, but believing him ... and ....handle your hearsay as if you were there too to witness..

After hearing such an story .. I would ask him ... can I serve you some coffee?

“ What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.” Ecclesiastes 1:9.
The only things new, is US,…each time we incarnate again in to another material life form.
Jim Sutherland

The divisions made at the command of the British, namely churchill, was brutal as it smashed established communities and caused unnecessary turmoil and conflicts and confusions. 70 years on, the tensions still exist today thanks to these elitists . Then you have the devious and crafty seeds of jamiel who planted the idea of a new way for spirituality - the new way to divide people from their freedoms. The fake gurus plagurised Sikh teachings, Buddhist teachings and Hinduism and re-branded as RSSB and marketing as science of the soul. Now you have the clueless clown gurinder singh dhillon at the helm, who has expanded this pointless cult world wide. The science of the soul is now empty of any morals ethics and a leader by example. The fake ass guru is a hypocrite, a liar, and a narcissist with over 16 companies on his name, and multiple court cases that are still open. GSD your days are numberd, people are seeing through the vale of your deception and lies.

Dear Friends,
I have been asked by several followers of Sant Mat, among other enquirers who question life, to answer many of the questions raised here in this blog, including clarifying the true role of Sant Mat in humanity.

Let me start by explaining myself so that one can understand my "qualification" (from the human perspective) to write a clarifying comment here. My life started quite normally in the UK, though i was always seeking answers to life's perplexing problems. This eventually led me to study all the religions, mainstream philosophy and the sciences as i was gifted with "a remarkable level of learning ability, intelligence and comprehension" (according to my school reports). In every other way i was a normal child, though strongly against embracing common human norms of misery, hatred, anger, greed, ego, etc... Instead, i sought peace, harmony and kindness from humanity, but did not readily see that, which made me question my very existence here. Long story short, i was classed as a "child genius" by the education system, and later hailed as a "guru" by my companions and friends, etc., yet i saw myself as a mere sincere enquirer of the highest Truth. Now my earnest seeking, to the point of near death, led me to Sant Mat, as the final method of attaining the high Truth of it all, and of attaining personal wisdom. However, after 21 years of Sant Mat Initiation, through grace alone, this "i" was finally granted enlightenment in 2014, by the Supreme Lord of Consciousness (colloquially termed "God" or Shabd). Today, by the Lord's (Supreme Consciousness) grace, i discreetly help sincere others to do the same, especially those who have been "Initiated" (Spiritually Awakened) by a Perfect Living Master or Saint in this lifetime. As a result, many claim certain accolades for me, but my reply to them is that i am simply a co-traveller on the journey of life who has simply been blessed with a greater glimpse of higher reality than the average individual, but are otherwise not special in any way. I still live in this world, as a mortal being, sustaining the physical body in the normal way, though remaining detached from the world at large, and indifferent to my fate here on Earth. In this way, this "i" is able to enjoy life all the more, since there is no concern for outcomes - only living in the true Lord's Will, in the "now". I have no provisions for the future, nor any status on paper of any so-called material success, yet the true Lord still sustains me, without my real effort. Neither do i subscribe to any social media or other wilful promotion. In fact, one could say this "i" lives an enchanted life of harmony and joy, despite the heavy karmas that has befallen this mortal, which, if explained here, would reduce most to tears. Indeed, when i enquired further about why my life had to be so harsh, i was told that this "i" would be a living martyr (example) to all who seek the highest Truth, by reminding them that no matter what life (karma) throws at you, you can still remain balanced, truthful and positive, as well as becoming enlightened, if truly truly desired above all else. So that.s my position today - living the enchanted life of one who has surrendered to the Will of the Supreme Lord (via the Supreme Lord's true Representative on Earth) - thus living life happily day by day - without dwelling upon the past nor worrying about the future - since the true Lord and Holy Masters of today sustain me (through grace). Thus, when not working, this "i" selflessly supports the Holy Masters of today, though independently, as discreetly requested by Them - since the sangat at large, and peoples of the world, are mostly not advanced enough to hear the real Truth, straight away, especially from the revered form of modern Holy Masters, as it would only confuse them. The problem is that the historic books & scriptures, that the modern Holy Masters somewhat still represent, were originally written for particular peoples of a particular background, at particular times - even as recently as the last century - merely to gently guide enquirers, but not to replace the real blessing of seeking the company of the truly Enlightened. Hence, current Holy Masters largely go along with the revered books, and innocent crowd, publicly, so as not to offend or disturb them too much in this current era, yet happily reveal the higher Truth, privately, to those truly 'ready' to know, who then, as a result, themselves, remain largely silent, for practical reasons. You see, the true Lord knows how best to, and who to, deliver the higher Truth, as well as how to let the "drama of life", between the protagonists and antagonists, play out - just like in an entertaining movie, one could say, where the director knows what part each one is there to play, and thus treats all parts equally to make it work well. Now let's move on to the major queries raised here, in this enquirers blog...
I will be brief in summarising the key points of "high Spiritual Truth", which for those who are sincere, may seek further knowledge thereof, either from myself or from 'knowing' others. Lets now summarise the real Truth via 5 points:

1) WHAT OR WHO IS GOD? - The common ideas about, and the term used, for "God" - when only understood from a purely intellectual point of view - are NOT correct. This is understandable, though, since historically, the concept of "God" has been explained, and thus understood, in very human terms - given in accordance to the level of comprehension of the peoples visited by the Holy Visitors to our world, in every era - whether of "religious ideas" (the mass belief systems of Deities & lessor Gods), or of "higher spiritual awareness" (general Sant Mat & the Holy Truth) - the former given by Yogis, Prophets, Sages and Teachers, Etc., the latter given by those classed as Holy Masters, Perfect Saints or Noble Mystics, Etc. For this reason, the "Gods" spoken of, in mass belief scriptures, are of the various Deities or Lessor Gods of the Karmic Realms - from Astral to Causal, who are often humanised, and thus demand to be worshipped. Hence, they are not the ultimate Truth. In contrast, the Supreme Lord (or Supreme Consciousness), as introduced via historic Sant Mat, is the supreme "Creative Power" that exists far beyond the mindfulness level (and deities) of mainstream religion - though at various stages of conscious awareness, up to the 5th Realm (complete awareness, known as Sat Lok, Sach Khand, or Sat Desh, Etc.) - of which, Anami Lok is the highest abode. Now this ultimate "Creative Power" has no form, gender or character, yet can assume any (and all) forms it Wills - including creating souls of Itself (as individuated special forms) - which we are all, in truth, at our core. Indeed, as 'seeking-Truth' souls we are its most treasured manifestation in "Creation". Hence, in Sant Mat, the 5th Realm is termed the highest Kingdom of "God", Truth or Consciousness, as per one's preference. However, there do exist further Realms (dimensions of existence) beyond the 5th (up to the 9th+), but as these levels are not attainable by human beings, they are generally not mentioned, for practical purposes. More about this another time - see the remarkable book: "The Sacred Truth of God, Life & Creation" (Holy Revelations for the Modern Age) by the mysterious "Saint With No Name", for further details.

2) WHAT IS CREATION? - The existence of a "Creation" itself, in which we take part, is again NOT what it seems to our senses. There are, in fact, 9 levels of expressed 'Consciousness', with each resonating at a particular "frequency", or "sound/shabd", to create apparent Realms of existence (including our own Physical Realm) - the others being known as the Astral, Causal, Par Brahm, Banwar Gupha, and Sach Khand, in Sant Mat. Science, meanwhile, refers to "higher dimensions of reality" as their closest approximation to such postulated existences. Philosophy - similarly so. Now each level of 'consciousness' caries within it a level of awareness that allows the individual (mind at first, then soul later) to witness all the marvels of that existence, as their "current" reality - such as that observed here on Earth today. Thus, there are many realities up to the Origin of all realities; the Origin Itself being known as the Supreme Lord (Consciousness, "Almighty God", Buddhahood or Anami Purush, Etc.). And each level carries its own purpose, law and power, which can be viewed and traversed by a conscious being who knows the secret of how to do so. Indeed, what's even more remarkable, from the highest Truth perspective, is that all this manifestation of "Creation" is actually an illusion, simply expressed by Supreme Consciousness for its own glory and "amusement" - though it is somewhat more than that from a higher perspective...

3) WHAT IS LIFE? - Individual sentient beings (life forms) all have 'consciousness' (meaning souls) as their driving force, which we call "life", that distinguishes them from the non-life objects of Creation, which are still made of Consciousness stuff, but are of a far lower resonance that doesn't exhibit "life". Thus, souls, by their divine origin & nature, are the indestructible spectators of "Creation", yet are often confused with the 'mind' (temporary characters) of the human form, by most human beings. In addition to this, the character we are playing in this lifetime is only one chapter in a whole series of chapters, in which the unfolding evolution (ascent), from our original devolution (descent), takes place in those of spiritual seeking. Others are at different stages of their experiential journey through "Creation". Therefore, the characters we are playing in this lifetime, whether protagonist or antagonist, etc., are mere temporary (mind) illusions of the true self, since the true self is the soul - which is why many individuals (who are "ready") seek the higher Truth, inherently, while others are content with just blindly ploughing through life, regardless, to an uncertain end. Thus, from the true Lord's point of view, any form of 'seeking' higher Truth, whether protestingly, critically or positively, is welcome, as quite uniquely in "Creation", their time has come to go "home" (back to their true Origin) - whether taking the long & arduous road, or the short & easy road - as per their current mindset. Thus, even the doubts and criticisms presented in this blog are fine, because such individuals are on their own truth-seeking journey, and it is not for anyone else to judge. Certainly, the true Lord does not judge, so why should we judge - either ourselves or others. For those who fortunately 'know' higher Truth, they can only advise - always out of love and kindness - but never with judgment, else they are not true "Knowers". Thus, just carry on as best one can up to one's level of comprehension - but i advise those genuine seekers of the highest Truth to keep the idea of "ultimate Truth-seeking" in mind, without obstructive emotional bias. That's why i call modern Sant Mat (3.0, as presented by the "Saint With No Name", etc.), a "Spiritual Science", because when properly investigated, it is like a science, but takes off where physical science ends...

4) WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HUMAN BIRTH - Our individual life here on Earth, born as a human being, is indeed a great blessing, as it affords that particular individual the means by which they can escape the trap of endless births & deaths - as confidently witnessed by those of higher attainment (certain yogis, mediators and the Enlightened, etc.), as well as by those of near-death experiences - who all agree that we are much more than the physical form. So death is a mere transformation, rather than an ultimate end. Of all human beings, the most fortunate ones are those who have become a disciple of a "perfect Knower" (Holy Master, Perfect Saint or Noble Mystic) - for their time of endless wanderings & torments has come to an end, whether quickly or slowly. But if they choose to waste their precious time in pursuing useless or negative pursuits, instead of journeying within oneself (in the right manner and with the right attitude), then their life is lived in vain. As Jesus the Christ admirably put it, "How shall it profit a man if he should gain the whole world but lose his soul". What is less known is that for those fortune few, who are accepted as disciples of a true Holy Master, Etc., their hard work is now done in their journey though Creation - as indeed, whether they believe it or not, their Holy Master's promise to them (on behalf of the Supreme Lord), to save them, cannot be broken. So, whether such a one is dragged through life, protestingly, or rides along with the Lord, smoothly, as per their mindset, such a fortunate one is destined to go to their true home, in time - though it will take much longer (more lifetimes) and more struggle (suffering lessons) for the protestors. Meanwhile, for others (non-disciples), they must carry on seeking until the true Lord rewards them with discipleship (Holy Initiation), as per the Universal Law of Physical Creation. Therefore, for those already a disciple, each day, after doing their spiritual work to gain merit for themselves (so as to eventually have enough merit earn a glimpse of the divine, within, and also awaken their higher awareness), they should simply enjoy the remainder of their life here on Earth, as if on vacation, while keeping to the moral vows explained to them, so as to reduce their karmic load - till their natural death - but always with sincere recognition, gratitude and remembrance of the great blessing they have been afforded in life.

5) WHAT IS A HOLY MASTER? - Regarding the concept of a Holy Master, Perfect Saint or Noble Mystic (who is the true Representative of the Supreme Lord here on Earth), let me clarify some gross misunderstandings. No true Master, or the Enlightened, ever asks you to worship Them, leave your family, friends, work or life for Them, nor give up enjoying life in a harmless manner, just to be successful in one's spiritual goal. Absolutely not, as chaos would simply ensue, since one would not be able to fulfil their dharmic (dutiful) obligations/role in life. Holy Masters, as true Representatives of the Supreme Lord, thus differ from other Holy Visitors, which is where much of the confusion lays, in that They shun physical worship, idolisation and running around for Them at the expense of one's own life and duties. This type of worship behaviour is just the nature of the undisciplined emotional mind, and thus carries no credibility with the Holy Masters. They know each and everyone's position, capabilities and destiny. Thus, it is the followers themselves who decide to chase the Master everywhere, do as much seva as they can to impress the Master (and others), or worshipingly admire the Master's physical being for Master's attention upon them. And yes, Holy Masters do let this happen to a certain extent because it pleases Their audience and makes them feel blessed, but the truth is very different. Therefore, Holy Masters do not go against anyones natural desires, because everything is moving along just as it should, by the Lord's design - moving from darkness and ignorance to light and enlightenment for the scripted period of time (for high Truth seekers). Thus, Holy Masters do not interfere with the karma of individuals, nor with Their own adopted/borrowed karma (which is needed in order to have a physical form and physical life in Creation), though They are actually above such limitations, spiritually.
There is so much more i could say on all this, but instead i will refer those interested to a greatly revered sacred book, published earlier this century - instigated by the Supreme Lord and the Holy Masters of today, for the independent purpose of clarifying the Holy Truth - since the last major revelations by Soami Ji Maharaj (called Sar Bachan) was revealed in the 1840s. The new noble work is called "The Sacred Truth of God, Life & Creation", available directly from istauk.com or amazon.co.uk, etc. Indeed, this remarkable book will certainly answer most questions raised here, and in far far greater detail than i have space for today.

So... may the true Lord bless you all, and may you keep up the seeking - it's never time wasted when seeking the high Truth, even if one takes a detour - so don't worry, and let your true intuition be your guide...

“The surest way to become Tense, Awkward, and Confused is to develop a mind that tries too hard - one that thinks too much.”

~ Benjamin Hoff

Unfortunately, Sant Mat 3.0 did away with darshan. That’s regression.

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