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July 10, 2022


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He, MCS, once said to me, after I insisted that another satsangi hhad to behave as I wanted him to behave:

"In Rome we do what the romans do!"

He did not say "you are Roman or you have to become one".. "just behave in the public domain as a Roman"

In this virtual domain that belongs to Brian, we better behave as Brian wants us to behave.. we need not to become like him, nor to agree or disagree.

Hi Brian. Glad to see you are stressing the ‘rules’ re posting. If I can comment on two points.

(7) Science is the surest means of finding truth. Theory, experiment, analysis of data: such are the tools of science, whether directed toward knowing material or immaterial reality.

(12) Death provides the final answers (if only momentarily). The spiritual quest is to get answers ahead of time. But the big question is, "What are the questions

Not sure about No. 7: - “. . . toward knowing material or immaterial reality. I translate as physical or non-physical, I’m only aware of a physical universe (including mental phenomenon which has a physical origin). What do you mean by immaterial?

And No. 12: - “Death provides the final answers (if only momentarily).” I would have thought that death can’t provide any answers as death means that the entire organism ceases to function. – With no active brain, no thought, mind etc., there is no one to answer anything.


Hey, Ron.

Here's my take on both your questions. Brian can correct me if he meant either differently.

Anything and everything answers to the methods of science. Actual, literal Harry Potter magic, should it exist, would answer to the methods of science. Actual, literal God/s, be it the crazy jealous genocidal Yhwh of the Bible, or the Greek (or Korean, or Indian) pantheon, or any other, also would answer to the methods of science. That's the beauty of science, there's nothing, nothing at all, that wouldn't answer to its methods.

So that to subscribe to a scientific worldview is not necessarily to bid goodbye to the search for a truly spiritual, as in other-worldly spiritual, reality. With emphasis on the "search". Should such a search appeal to one, that is.

Interested in the (stories of the) son et lumiere of RSSB? If you care enough to take the trouble, then do science on it! Interested in the (stories of the) yogic siddihis? If you care enough to take the time and effort, then do science on it!

Absolutely, you're right, there's no "immaterial", that we know. On the other hand, should you want to test the possibility of such, basis whichever story or stories appeal/s to you, then again, should you care enough to take the trouble, then use the methods of science to experiment, and to arrive at a reasonable rational answer.

As for death? Well, that all-important question (unless you've outgrown it, or unless you've never thought to ask it) --- "Is there life after death? Does our consciousness carry on after death? Are any of the afterlife stories and speculations we've heard of at all true?" --- we'll find answered when we pass. Either it's finito, or else it isn't. If it is --- as I'm sure it is! --- then that's the end to it. And if it isn't, well then, dying's when we'll finally know of that for sure, right?

Ron and Appreciative Reader, thanks for your cogent comments. I was just about to edit the list of creedless principles to take out the last one about death and add "any possible" before "immaterial reality," but Appreciative Reader's comment reminded me what I must have meant about death.

Meaning, Ron is right that with an absence of consciousness, there's no one there to know that life after death isn't real. But it's possible that just before the light of consciousness turns off, a realization of "this is the end" could come over a person. And if the very unlikely event of life continuing on in some form occurs, then obviously death would bring the answer to what happens after death. So I think I'll leave the death creed in for now, but I added a "may" to it to make clear that if death is the end of consciousness, there's no way to get answers to anything after we die..

Regarding immaterial reality, yes, I envisioned that if it exists, the scientific method should be able to prove this. Otherwise we only have subjective claims, which don't amount to anything, since there already are many people in the world claiming to have gone to heaven, met God, and such -- and they aren't all in mental hospitals. But adding "any possible" seems like a good idea to me.

According to the most current and plausible, evidenced based conclusion within the scientific method of inquiry, a human being is dead when the brain enters the necrotic stage.

There is the previous stage of clinical death when there is no discernible neuro/electro/chemical activity within the brain, and this is the point where currently you are declared dead if you cannot be resuscitated.

Prior to that, clinical death was declared when you stopped breathing due to the heart stopping.

The actuality of death provides an on-going helpful reminder of causality that can inspire a life well lived based in equanimity and kindness.

Learning to be comfortable about the inevitability and uncertainty about death, helps to process the natural grieving process of the death of others in a healthy way.

@ Roger [ Learning to be comfortable about the inevitability and uncertainty about death, helps to process the natural grieving process of the death of others in a healthy way. ]

Indeed... yet I always felt more resonance with the call to embrace life
while accepting the inevitability and uncertainty of death.

"Do not go gentle into that good night...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. "
-- Dylan Thomas

@ Dungeness .... Yes, embrace life ......................

The most amazing thing I discovered about life is, that no matter what happened yesterday, that you didn’t like, after a nights sleep, you get to start afresh so you don’t need to worry about it.

And if you don’t wake up the next morning you won’t be able to worry about it anyway.

So, for me, life presents two choices.

1. I can start each day refreshed and energized without being attached to the worries of the past and enjoy my day


2. I can continue to be attached to the past and bring that worry into my day and drain all the energy out of it, thus spoiling it.

Sometimes, life is as simple as that .......................

I challenge you to watch the entire 3 hours, 37 minutes and 53 seconds of this podcast.

It manages to answer every question about why humans are so easily drawn into cults and religiousity. Most of the ah ha moments come closer to the end. It starts off telling one person’s story and slowly transitions into a universal tale of superficial morality propelled by ego fragility.

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