Cognitive dissonance is alive and well in commenters on this blog

It's amusing to observe how much work some religious believers who comment on my blog posts go to in defending an obvious fact. 

A recent example is me stating in several blog posts that the notion of the Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) guru being God in Human Form, or GIHF, is a central RSSB tenet. How can you have a "Path of the Saints" without a saint?

The whole rationale behind the RSSB teachings is that God manifests in the form of a Perfect Living Master (PLM) to guide souls back to Him, because otherwise God remains an unseen, unheard, unknown entity beyond the bounds of time and space.

Today "Appreciative Reader," a commenter who almost always makes a lot of sense, wrote a comment that made me think, right-on. I've shared it below. The blog post the comment was left on is "RSSB teachings: 'The perfect Master is the Lord in human flesh'."

The quotations in the comment below come from another commenter, Spence Tepper. I'll observe that Charan Singh, a previous RSSB guru, said "We're unable to look at simple things in a simple way," or words to that effect. I no longer agree with a lot of what Charan Singh taught, but I heartily agree with that sentiment.

As Appreciative Reader says, it's a simple fact that RSSB teaches that the guru is God in Human Form. Anyone who can't recognize that in a simple way is willfully ignoring reality.

"The belief in GIHF isn't actually encouraged by the Masters, as you see here."

Ha ha ha, back playing cat and mouse, are we? Regardless of what's said *here*, GIHF/PLM has been referenced, as a core teaching, plenty of times *elsewhere*, as Brian's amply shown, and as you've agreed with him already; and indeed, as you've admitted to me as well, and what's more even put forward a conjecture about why they have done it. So no, it isn't true that belief in GIHF isn't actually encouraged in RSSB. Quite the contrary.

"Here is what Maharaj Charan Singh said about this in answer to a question: ...In the beginning we should just take him as a preacher or a teacher or a guide. And when we go in, we will realize what he does for us. We automatically see what he is. In the beginning we are just to take him as a guide, as a friend, as a leader, somebody to put us on the path. Then we ourselves will realize more and more why we need him..."

That's complete, utter BS. Sure that's what MCS says here, but had that been what RSSB is actually doing, then like I'd said they'd simply have actually walked the talk, and actually taught that the master is simply a teacher, and left the initiate to find out for himself what there is to find out. They wouldn't have taught that the master is GIHF, in that case.

You can't have it both ways. You can't, at the end of a long chase, after finally having been cornered, buckle down and admit that RSSB teaches GIHF/PLM; and after I ask, then after a few further rounds of the chasing-the-tail routine, finally buckle down again and put forward your conjecture about why it is RSSB teaches GIHF/PLM; and then after all of that suddenly change tacks and try to present a random quote and basis that quote try to claim, afresh, all over again, that RSSB does not actually teach GIHF.

That's simply trying the old cat-and-mouse routine all over again, that carousel ride I referred to in my first comment in this thread.

Brian had been wondering why you, and a few others following your lead, are trying to claim that RSSB does not teach GIHF/PLM, when it is plain as day that they do. The answer, I conclude, from all of these exchanges, is cognitive dissonance plain and simple.

As I've clearly shown here, RSSB teaches blind faith in essence exactly as the monotheisms do, despite the vow-not-vow thing. That's exactly what my last comment to you was about. To admit that would be to show up RSSB in an unflattering light, as a purveyor of woo; to admit that is to back oneself into a position there can be no defending against rational criticism; therefore the kneejerk reaction is to try to slide off to a different position, even if that position isn't quite based in reality.

Hence these incessant sidebars, and changing the subject, and verbal feints and tricks galore, in these threads. I hope the latest round of rinse-repeat-afresh cat-and-mouse, where after all is said and done you try yet one more time to claim that RSSB does not teach GIHF/PLM might break through that cognitive dissonance and, just perhaps, impinge on an awareness trying desperately to keep its eyes blinkered.

On the other hand, maybe not: because that is the nature of this animal, this cognitive dissonance thing. Fascinating.

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian Ji!

GIHF is written of throughout Sant Mat Literature. No argument there. But we are also told not to take anything on blind belief. We are told to conduct the investigation and gather evidence for ourselves. Hence the vows for meditation, vegetarian diet, no recreational drugs and living to the highest ethical standards. All geared to support the inner work.

It's a package deal, Brian Ji.

No blind faith, no superstitious beliefs. Replace these with inner exploration, discovery, investigation, evidence and greater understanding.

The Masters tell us to confirm it for ourselves through inner practice. Not to pretend we know anything about it. And not to believe it blindly. That's what the vows are for, discovering these truths for ourselves through meditation and a harmless, healthy and helpful lifestyle conducive to inner research.

From Sar Bachan...
"People who engage in ceremonial and ritualistic worship will always be subject to the bondage of the world. They will never gain admittance to the court of the Lord.....

"Neither inner nor outer purification is possible without Shabd...."

Hence meditation practice, and building that inner Satsang, inner association with the truth residing buried within each of us.

Here is what Maharaji said about how we should view the Master:

"In the beginning we should just take him as a preacher or a teacher or a guide. And when we go in, we will realize what he does for us. We automatically see what he is. In the beginning we are just to take him as a guide, as a friend, as a leader, somebody to put us on the path. Then we ourselves will realize more and more why we need him.

"You see, everywhere, in every line, we need a teacher. You want to do law, you want to do engineering, we have so many teachers to put us ont he path. And we alsys give them due respect and are grateful to him for being so helpful to us. All that we are as an advocate or as a lawyer, it's all due to our teachers. In the same way, we need a master, we need a guide, to put us on this spiritual path. And when we realize what that path is, what the beauty of that realization is, we automatically know what we have to be, how we have to be with him. There is nothing that we have to force ourselves to admit, nor do we have to take a certain thing. All this comes from within, and whenever it comes, it comes from within. The realization is within."
Charan Singh, Spiritual Perspectives, Volume 1, answer to question 540.

Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji, also, like Maharaji, says directly that blind faith in GIHF is not to be indulged in, but effort and practice instead;

"The Master does not expect anyone to idolize Him. A boy, reading in primary classes, cannot judge the attainments of a B.A. Or M.A. The Master only wants you to look upon Him as your elder brother or friend, to follow His directions, as those of a benefactor, and work hard to go into the higher planes within you. When you go there, you will see for yourself the position and dignity fot he Master in those regions."
Spiritual Gems, letter 58, Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji

No blind faith is taught in any Sant Mat literature, as far as I know.

This is a logical disconnect. If GIHF is the teaching, the very core teaching of Sant Mat, shouldn't it be the single most important vow we take? The very first vow?" My Guru is God. " That is the core in most religions and usually their first vow.

But not so in Sant Mat. There are no vows of divinity or supernatural belief at all.

Sant Mat starts by telling you all about the Guru, just like you may have heard in your other childhood religions.

Then it tells you to put aside superstition and practice meditation in peace, harmless and helpfulness to see for yourself whatever truth is within you.

An Atheist can become an initiate!

[Ahujahalava]

The author of this blog as well as his champion BS artist who argue from a position of pure self infatuated unrealized doubt about a relationship they have never experienced or been privy to are the ones suffering from Cognitive dissonance. Then again how would or could they know or experience anything they have willfully excluded from realizing or been brought to the point of clarity in understanding? Theirs is a cognitive dissonance akin to that of a blind person refuting the acknowledgement of a sunset or sunrise.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Ahujahalava:
In the strongest possible terms I must disagree with your personal depictions of people with whom you disagree.

The ignorance you accuse them of we are all guilty of, and daily.

Brian Ji gave his life to RSSB. He has the right to change his mind, after all those years. He has plenty of his own evidence. He has earned the right.

And along the way Brian Ji has developed a significant reaction to any form of superstition or blind faith. Good on him!

He has earned the title Brian Ji!

The issue that he and AR are arguing is simply that you can't have both.

You can't say the Guru is God in Human Form, visiting us from heaven on every page of literature in Sant Mat and then claim that you don't like superstitious practices.

So it is all understood. There are reasons why Masters use the path of Guru Bakhti. But it isn't the only way teachers help folks connect to Nam, Shabd light, etc.

The fact that no such vow of divinity is required means even an Atheist can be an initiate and work through the inner journey.

People with a bias towards hard reality do quite well on the path. They focus as scientists examining the reactions and stimuli from their own brain in meditation. And they get to the same place.

Those are the true Scientists in Sant Mat.

I was a young man in college, a physics major, and as a result of meditation experiences I switched to experimental psychology. Every Satsangi I knew said "Bravo...We need more scientists doing work on this."

I had a different experience.

The notion that there is no vow of divinity nor vow of obescience to the Guru in Sant Mat was taught to me. Not something I came up with. The guy who taught it to me was Tom Curtis, who brought me to the Path. He had zero patience for supersitition. I see a lot of Tom in Brian Ji.

[arun marwah]

If you are a GIHF then why do you have so much security around you?? Is it because GIHF fears death like all VVIPs??
Guru Nanak dev was said to be a true Guru, a perfect Guru and he came in times of a tyrant Babur, who had butchered lakhs in India. Guru Nanak was also put in Jail by Babur when he came to know Nanak was criticising his loot and murderous assault on men, women and children in India.

Still, Nanak Baba roamed all over the world without security. Most other saints of that time did not opt for security cover in their lives either.

[security needed]

"Nanak Baba roamed all over the world without security. Most other saints of that time did not opt for security cover in their lives either." writes arun.

It was a different age. no planes, no cars, no phones. Guns were mostly like rifles. Who needed 'security' and for what purpose? He had two disciples, they were his companions.

now there are different threats. Like Sidhu Moosewala - you can get shot very easily. GSD prefers not to get shot.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"If you are a GIHF then why do you have so much security around you?? Is it because GIHF fears death.."

Posted by: arun marwah | June 20, 2022 at 07:51 PM

I've been shot at point blank, by 12th ST Mexican Gang, Took 3 guns from outsiders in Ghost Town Crips' turf. Had three other gun encounters one being tied up, another at a crack location, and recently near a local freeway.

Wasn't my time I expect. Found my last attacker with ten more members of his gang. This time, they didn't see me coming. Now I know their exact location. Feel lucky to have learned the RSSB method of meditation.

Moral of the story is my Koran says humans die only by His decree..
"(Muhammad), say, "Nothing will happen to us besides what God has decreed for us. He is our Guardian. In God alone do the believers trust." K 9/51

[arun marwah]

When i used to go the dera, i was checked comprehensively at atleast four points and then allowed to enter Satsand Shed. Does not the GIHF knows who is coming to dera with murderous intentions? GIHF should definitely be aware about such mundane things.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Karim
You wrote
"I've been shot at point blank, by 12th ST Mexican Gang, Took 3 guns from outsiders in Ghost Town Crips' turf. Had three other gun encounters one being tied up, another at a crack location, and recently near a local freeway.

" Wasn't my time I expect. Found my last attacker with ten more members of his gang. This time, they didn't see me coming. Now I know their exact location. Feel lucky to have learned the RSSB method of meditation."

Wow. Very impressive. Does your line of work require this level of risk?

Do you have a choice in the matter? Or is this work your passion?

[tucson]

I was in RSSB for about 27 years. I dropped out around 1996. I woke up and Sant Mat did not fit into my conceptual framework anymore. During my time with RSSB there is no doubt Charan Singh, master of the time, was regarded as GIHF by the sangat. No doubt. There are many references in the RS literature to this being the case and in satsangs the master was spoken of as such. I don't know what Gurinder Singh says these days about this. When asked if he was God or a Perfect Master, Charan Singh used to say, "I am just a servant of the sangat". That was the truth.

[Ahujahalava]

Nobody ever gave their life to any individual or institution, if they did they wouldn't be wrangling around their doubts and lack of conviction 51 years later still trying to fathom or work out wtf they actually gave their 'life' to.

[Generation77]

I believe that Spencer is correct that the GIHF concept is nuanced in RSSB teachings.

Sawan Singh has written that the guru is to be looked at as God. But Sawan has also written that it's not necessary to view the guru that way, and that one can look at him as an elder brother.

Nevertheless, there's no denying that, honestly nuanced or not, the GIHF concept is a part of RSSB teachings.

The bigger question is why that's an issue, or why it's a problem.

[Brian Hines]

Generation77, the discussion here isn't how the sangat looks at the RSSB guru, but whether the RSSB teachings say the guru is God in Human Form. That second question obviously is YES. Regarding whether this is a problem, try a thought experiment.

You're told about an organization where the members are taught that the leader is God in a human form. The members are told that their eternal salvation is in the hands of that leader. The members are encouraged to give money and their time/effort to the organization. Members rush to see the leader, bowing to him in public.

Wouldn't you think this sounds a lot like a cult? Would you be comfortable if a loved one said, "I'm going to follow this leader, who I'm told is God in a human form." Could you see any risk of abuse or manipulation by the leader and the organization? I sure can.

[Ahujahalava]

One would always view everything from the vantage point of where one stands

The literature in RSSB of Sawan Singhs time refers to and reflects the conditions of the state of dedication and devoted appreciation to the applied practice of the time.

The literature of Charan Singhs time was somewhat different and focused on somewhat different approach and aspects of similar methods in application although from slightly different social perspectives.

The current approach by the current patronage of the RSSB line of teaching has either evolved or developed to reflect current social values and conditions of societal life and to some extent has been steered away from the deeply devotional approach in its clarity of unfettered simplicity of 70-80 years ago.

[Ahujahalava]

It's not what you're told or taught to believe in it's about what you yourself are capable of recognizing and receiving.

There is no telling or teaching about whether someone is recognized as GIHF it's purely a case of what you yourself are able to recognize and see in your own psychological perspective and personal experience (perhaps better to stay away from the use of the word 'spiritual' as it conjures up too many conflicting conceptual reactions)

[Configured]

If the gurus in RSSB line have gradually pulled away from the GIHF concept/figurehead as a devotional savior from Sawan Singh' time, then the question must be asked if the reason for this is because they are not as accomplished as the first two/three guru's were...

The spiritual accomplishments of the first two (Soami Ji and Jaimal Singh) gurus are the basis of the RSSB lines of mystics.

We know Charan Singh and Gurinder Singh both have indicated that they did little to reading/spiritual work prior to assuming the gaddi. They are perhaps pulling away from the GIHF because they know they are not accomplished gurus of the past and so to keep honest with themselves and the sangat, they are saying so, but the sangat interprets this as humility.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"When i used to go the dera, i was checked comprehensively at atleast four points and then allowed to enter Satsand Shed. Does not the GIHF knows who is coming to dera with murderous intentions? GIHF should definitely be aware about such mundane things."

Posted by: arun marwah | June 21, 2022 at 05:53 AM

Dera organization structure was created since the time of Hazur Sawan Singh Ji. So if guards were issued, or guns used for vermin, or any other general regulations. There are other administration members who help solve collective health issues.

"Does your line of work require this level of risk?

Do you have a choice in the matter? Or is this work your passion?"

Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 21, 2022 at 07:40 AM

I grew up in the Gangsta Rap era. Lived in places where street crime was very active. And like say George Floyd, I also had to navigate the cops who don't care if Black Lives Matter. Still have run-ins with racial profilers.

Back to Sant Mat, by 1996 I started to try out the lacto-vegetarian diet. My father was a jazz musician so I found rap which helped keep me from say, selling crack, marijuana, or any other drugs.

[Ahujahalava]

The modern mind, especially the western modern mind under the authority and auspices of the scientific model of empirical evidence is highly sceptical, and especially about anything that is not physical sensed visible or validated.

Therefore any modern guru worthy of the term will by choice stay as far from qualifying a verbal affirmation as to their 'level of accomplishment' as phrased above, as possible.

[Spence Tepper]

If anyone says they don't believe in the existence of God, I say that is their right, and their experience. I honor that.

And if someone says they have experienced the divine within themselves, under the guidance of a good Teacher, I honor that too. That is their experience.

because personally I already know both can be absolutely right, factual and worthy.

Each of us goes through our own life, and it belongs to us and not anyone else.

But if anyone says 'You are being fooled for believing what you believe, you are wrong, foolish and your belief harms others.."

Then, I need to investigate that.

If it turns out the accusations are really slanted and ungrounded, and what they call a cult is really very innocent, encouraging people to make their own decisions, to find the power within themselves to stand on their own two feet, to live a harmless life of helpfulness, and offers a lifestyle that has already been proven by the hard sciences to be healthy and prolongs live, then I suggest that the accuser tries their best to emulate these noble sentiments in their own way, and tries to uncover the basis for their own projections of others.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hi tucson
Nice to see your comment. Hope you are well.