Thoughts on the Sant Mat teachings

Today I got this message from someone who wants to be referred to as Godot. They are still dedicated to the spiritual philosophy of Sant Mat that I embraced for thirty five years.

But they have problems with the direction Radha Soami Satsang Beas has gone since the death in 1990 of Charan Singh, the guru who initiated this person and myself.

My thoughts on the teachings of Sant Mat.

In 1972, I received Nam. The Path is inside, and meditation has been my focus. When Charan Singh passed away in 1990, I was not concerned that he had left this world.  During his lifetime, he used to advise us not to run after the physical form of the guru.   

I have known satsangis who have not seen the guru in the flesh, and felt no urgency to do so. The organization has never been of interest to me, I’ve gone for years without attending Sant Mat group meetings. 

Around the time I was Initiated, I bought a number of Sant Mat books, and still have them. After 50 years, I can say that the time I have spent in meditation has been the best investment of time in my life.  

I spent about five weeks in the physical presence of Charan Singh. At no time did he say or do anything that indicated he was under the sway of the mind and senses. I am disillusioned by the nepotism of anointing his nephew as his spiritual successor. 

I am further disillusioned by developments/events since 1990 until now. It looks as if rssb.org has regressed into a cult. As I remember Dera Baba Jaimal Singh Ji, it was a small ashram dedicated to the teachings of Sant Mat.   

In the past few years, newspapers have described rssb.org as the most powerful sect in India - not a compliment.

Life is a journey, not a destination. The Path is within. The technique of meditation we are given at the time of Initiation takes us back to our source. 

"My only advice is that whatever we may do and in whatever circumstance we may live, our meditation should be our main concern, and this should never be sacrificed to anything of this life.”     
         -- Charan Singh

Comments

[um]

Things, also those things that are pointed at by Godot, are what they are
seldom what the appear to be
let alone how they are presented by those that take different stands from which to look at facts, react to them judge them.

To Godot, I would say: "If your master would be around and you would put this frustration of yours before him, what would be his answer you think"?

He certainly would come up with an spiritual point of view and not an worldly one.

Maybe he would say: "Do not worry, it is all in his hands"" ... hahahaha

[TENDZIN]

Finally, a Charan Satsangi states that Charan Singh's appointment of his nephew was blatant nepotism. This is a fact that most exers completely ignore as they laud Charan as a true guru while bashing Gurinder as a fraud.

Whatever Gurinder may be guilty of, let it not be forgotten that he would not be guru had not his uncle Charan put him in that role.

As for the criticism that RSSB is growing too large, and therefore this is evidence of grave wrong, I don't quite get the argument. For one thing, RSSB has never promoted itself in the ways that many religions have. There are no paid ads, no extravaganzas, no missionaries knocking on doors. And it must be noted that Gurinder even forbade the selling of RSSB books in retail book stores, and even resisted publishing a single book during his reign as guru. So if there was ever a religious org that went out of its way to discourage growth, it would have to be RSSB.

Moreover, there was much growth of the dera during Charan's reign. Again, I have to wonder why the Charan lovers never comment on Charan's growth ambitions.

All that aside, I tend to agree with any Satsangi who feels there is something "off" about the Sant mat org they joined decades ago. I feel the same way.

Having watched a few dozen of Gurinder's q and a videos, I feel he's promoting an interpretation of Sant mat that deviates quite a bit from what Charan and other RSSB gurus preached. Gurinder has said that there's nothing special about Sant mat from other religions, that Sant mat isn't the only religion that leads to God, that the inner signposts of the path in RSSB lit are not to be taken seriously, and that initiation really doesn't matter, and that all ideas about the Guru as Godman are just fantasy. Not having any spiritual experiences? Doesn't matter, the point of the path now is to sit for hours a day to "work off one's karma." Gurinder seems to be taking an overall defensive approach of deconstructing Sant mat so that there's nothing mystical about it.

The satsangis must wonder then -- what is the point of the path? We joined a religion that promised a Godman who would take us to heaven if we surrendered to him. Now you're telling us none of that was true, and you blame us for believing what we were told by the other gurus?

The apparent change in Sant mat isn't restricted to RSSB land. Over in Rajinder Singh's Science of Spirituality, a similar retreat from traditional guruhood seems underway. For some years now Rajinder's satsangs now all follow the same tepid template of an insufferably long Indian folktale followed by standard sant mat boilerplate and advice to practice meditation to see "vistas." All org lit is mostly photo celebrations of the Duggal family gurus. Btw, where is Rajinder? He's been "sheltering in place" these last 2 years. Actually a good idea for anyone who's elderly and overweight. His org released an online tribute virtual museum to celebrate his wedding anniversary. He's also selling his online talks for $10 a piece.Many of us were attracted to sant mat because we believed the guru was a real-life Wiz, but this is Cheeze Wiz sant mat.

I have to wonder why anyone would join either of these orgs when neither of them seem to be that invested in the sant mat of old. Neither of these gurus seem quite sincere.

[TENDZIN]

Addendum: Much was made years ago about Gurinder's supposed "internet ban." Without combing through that muck again, Gurinder and RSSB have to be given credit for their respect for free speech.

Would that our own government shared that respect.

In a recent official memo, the White House has begun an extraordinary assault on free speech in America. It is no longer content merely to force social media companies to suppress dissenting views. It appears to be setting the stage to use federal police powers.

How else to read the “National Terrorism Advisory System Bulletin” the Department of Homeland Security issued on Tuesday? Its first sentence:

SUMMARY OF THE TERRORISM THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES: The United States remains in a heightened threat environment fueled by several factors, including an online environment filled with false or misleading narratives and conspiracy theories... [emphasis added]

You read those words right.

The government now says “misleading narratives” are the most dangerous contributor to terrorism against the United States.

The bulletin’s next sentence:

These threat actors seek to exacerbate societal friction to sow discord and undermine public trust in government institutions to encourage unrest, which could potentially inspire acts of violence. [emphasis added]

You read those words right too.

A federal agency says that to “undermine public trust in government institutions” is now considered terrorism. Speech doesn’t even have to encourage rebellion or violence generally, much less against anyone specific. It just has to “potentially inspire” violence.

Potentially.

Later, the bulletin explains exactly what speech the government now considers a terrorist danger:

Widespread online proliferation of false or misleading narratives regarding unsubstantiated widespread election fraud and COVID-19.

There’s that word misleading again.

Who’s defining “misleading”? Misleading to whom? Misleading how?

[um]

@ Tendzin

>>The satsangis must wonder then -- what is the point of the path? We joined a religion that promised a Godman who would take us to heaven if we surrendered to him. Now you're telling us none of that was true, and you blame us for believing what we were told by the other gurus? <<

Take to heaven ?!
Yes, that was and is the promise.
BUT ....
Under their conditions
And ...
If you do not, to use his uncles words, he will send the dogs after one.

What has changed is the way ithe message, the tale of Sant Mat, is presented to a cultural very fast changing world. Many things that were said by his uncle would not be acceptable for those that are seeking to day.

I made several time the comparison with the change of power in China. The dressed up mandarins have only changed their apparel into green uniforms, but the poer and the way it is used is still the same.

What is going on in these religious multinationals is to be seen in other organisations as well.

Humans Tendzin remain who and what they are ... change of culture, does only change the clothes of the emperor not the man under it.

There is nothing that can be changed in the teachings, nothing, by no guru. These teachings were given out to the world by KABIR and ever since they have not changed in the curnel.

Over time it has become more and more difficult for householders to find time and living circumstances that are conductive to concentration ... these gurus have to accept that fact and they do and in doing that they accomodate the householders in order not to scare them away.

And ... yes , I all left it behind for my own reasons.

[um]

@ Tenzin

For plants to grow they need light, water, air and earth.
There is no way to change that.

Driving a car through parts of this country, one will see in the darkens and yellow glow. That yellow glow is produce in glass warehouses where they grow plants in an almost science-fictive way.

It looks weird and unnatural even ... but on closer observation, nothing has changed, these farmers have still give the plants the same things as was previous found in nature.

The possibilities to manipulate the mind / brain are restricted by laws of nature and all use sensory-deprivation in one way or another and the brain as was found by Prof. Deickmann, de brain in the absence of sensory stimuli will produce its own in order to stay alive.

In that sense no change is possible as all humans are made the same.

The difference is how these technical things are presented to the public in any given culture and time.

I do not say that it doesn't matter these changes in the cultural presentation, but it is neither absolute.

[umami]

Remember when Coca-Cola reformulated in 1985? New Coke was a marketing disaster. 79 days later Classic Coke was back on the shelves. They kept New Coke in production, but by 2002 it was discontinued.

Cheapstakes! What they really needed to do was go back to sugar from high fructose corn syrup! If you can get your hands on a bottle of Coke from Mexico, you'll see what I mean.

I need sugar! Real sugar!

[Uchit]

Gurinder singh dhillon and RSSB have been caught out. Rssb has no foundation, no idea, no concept and no purpose. It is just a large gathering around a cult figure. A cult leader who is a clever narcissist, a circus clown, that loves attention seeking. A cult leader that likes to segregate people away from their real loved ones and and drain their life force and of any meaning, and dreams and aspirations. Only to suck you dry and then dumping you at the end when there is nothing left of you. The only purpose of the sangat in their life is to tend to the SATANIC MEDITATION, and bow down to and worship the so called god in human form - what a joke!!!. This is nothing but a very sickly and sorry state of affairs. Isn't it time the sangat wake up from their hairy fairy fantasies they have about the disguised monster mafia GSD.

[Roger]

"My only advice is that whatever we may do and in whatever circumstance we may live, our meditation should be our main concern, and this should never be sacrificed to anything of this life. Charan Singh

Imagine you are a developing 5 year old child, with parents that strongly believe, that their meditations should be their main concern, and such meditations should never be sacrificed to anything of this life.

[Dungeness]

@ Roger [ Imagine you are a developing 5 year old child, with parents that strongly believe, that their meditations should be their main concern, and such meditations should never be sacrificed to anything of this life. ]

Is this suggesting that obsessed parents will go off kilter and slip
into neglect... If so, a persistent theme of mystic advice is for life
balance, dutifully fulfilling family obligations, and above all being
a decent human being. IMO Charan was emphasizing in the
original quote that meditation is a full-time practice and can be
carried on silently even while engaged in other activities of life.
It is that thread of attention that is key.

[umami]

Sugar?
High fructose corn syrup?
Aspartame?
Sand?

O, Caffeine! When?

[Neon]

It was always a cult, now and forever. God does not exist.

[Roger]

Thanks Dungeness, Yes, there could be examples of obsessed parents and spouses, engaged in endless daily meditation periods. That said, why would a devotee engage in such behavior?? Maybe, the instructions that meditation cleanses or removes a karma debt attached to one's Soul. I'm sure, someone could explain the purpose of Sant Mat meditations much better than me.

[Manoj]

Thoughts on the Sant Mat (Satan Mat) teachings

Where does one even start to describe Radha and her Snake Soami as the most prolific evil religious path known to mankind.

This is the most self profiteering man made cult there is, take Gurinder Singh Dhillion the current Bent baba of beas who lives of others and has been freeloading since Charan Clueless Singh who made the biggest mistake he would ever have made in his long fake baba of a lifespan at dera.

How could he even imagine handing over a mad little man like Gurinder the job of a Guru. Did he really have any enlightenment whatsoever or was he really a charlatan like Gurinder who just fluked at it good.

I guess the reality kicks in with Gurinder as Charan played it cool, calm and collected and Gurinder just played the natural clown that he is and ruined what was made through trickery and deception.

Exposed it all through his idioticy

But as with anything which is a lie it never holds up or lasts for too long.

And now we can all see the reality of this false fake baba ideology which thrives within the Radha Soami Cult so that this horrible Cult can destroy and mislead innocent pure souls to hell so Gurinder can please his God Satan and enjoy the luxuries that he has ordained for him in return.

Satan Mat is Satans preferred Religion in kalyug . Which is promising you salvation by repeating the 5 names given at initiation which are to invite Satan in to your world by doing his meditation:

Joyt Naranjan (kaal,satan,devil)
Onkar
Rarankar
Sohang
Satnam

Which will eventually open a person up to the light inside of Satan in the first name Jyoti Naranjan is repeated.

What you think is Darshan when Gurinder comes on to the stage and looks from right to left at the sangat is actually Satan who is projecting an evil black magic spell on the disciples through Gurinders eyes and everyone thinking its Grace. You are now hypnotised into falling in love with Gurinder and to do his every command with love.

Trickery and Deception are the tools Satan  uses in this world to fool the innocent individuals so he can devour they're souls.

And keep his world going on forever

Be careful of the Big Dog who's bark is bigger than his bite and walk through life with a big stick by your side in case Satans cronies like Gurinder try it on

[Sonya]

Gurinder, the Devil in disguise, didn’t inherit the Gaddhi—he stole it.

Why can’t he just move on? He’s useless now. There isn’t a single sane person that wishes him to be around.

[Sonya]

I truly believe that Gurinder is the Devil incarnate.

[mogtherug]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/services/property-/-cstruction/sale-of-lutyens-bungalow-under-hc-lens/articleshow/89493692.cms

More info on the Bhai

[Ram]

The lying, 2 faced, sociopathic, hypocrite, womeniser, accessory to drug traffickers (his brother in law majithia), dirty old man needs to do us all a favor and leave. Good riddens to bad rubbish.

[‼️. - Simpler than simple ‼️.]

The Teachings are true and it's all about hearing and developing hearing of The Shabd together with Love (Compassion)
Every human abstaining fr eggs and abstaining razing thoughts and drugs hears IT
when attentive

While hearing one automatically 'sees' other people that also hear
The Sound is swelling then
And its also normal to detect a Hyper_Hearer - the Sound swells hyper
This is communication on a higher level
This way Charan apppointed a Hyper!
Btw 99% of initiated hear the Shabd at a reasonable level
1% to come
That(s ALL about most religions and their founders
It s communication
and Charan said "Yes there are more" but I don t give U their telephone numbers

777
Animal food blocks the Sound - that s all about eggs

[um]

@ 777

Btw 99% of initiated hear the Shabd at a reasonable level
1% to come

That is sheer nonsense ....certainly if we restrict ourselves to the Dutch sangat.
IF .... IF ... that would be the case my friend, the atmosphere woulkd reflect what you write ... the opposite is true. ....

[‼️ simple ‼️]

90% for NL
The silent ones!
Also , many hear 24/7 but don't listen
even in meditation they do the "inner dialogue"
Read my lips
IT s so universal

777

[‼️. Simple Path ‼️]

Once we had a great atmosphere in Hotel Krasnapolsky, Amsterdam
Were sitting hours sometimes in the Lounge ,. . after Satsang

I don t know about the Hilversum location

Anyway, . . my point is :
Shabd is always in the 7th Chakra but people suppress it
U don t need a Guru but it's fine
Adi Granth:
"Looking at my Guru my Headgear SHIVERS"

777

[‼️. baby super Nova ‼️]

This might help when y(r free from animal stuff , eggs included:

If you have bath_tube, go with your ears
under water (fingers in to prevent water entering)
Now yr heartbeat is very clear and other rumbles
from stomac etc are defineble
Now take some time to analyse all that
There is an independent frequency
2 octaves higher than the highest C
on a synth
It might seem modest, . .
but eventualy can become a sweet hurricane; a super nova
( such is your Soul )

777

[um]

@ 777

What you write about yourself I prefer to believe but what you attribute to others is sheer nonsense ... the many claims before huzur that people do not hear a thing even after 20, 30 en more years, stand as my testimony.

The Spere in those days was based on future expectations, if I do not hear it today I might hear it to morrow and people rejoiced and forget that they didn't hear and see a thing in the cosy atmosphere, the socialisation.

But since then many years have passed and they started to realize they had been waiting for a future that never came.

For the rest .. yes I do believe that sound can be heard by all under the right conditions but some have to come back here 3 more times to hear it.

Not even 1% has ever heard the sound. and to think that eating eggs make a difference makes me laugh.

These day hardly one dutch person is initiated in a year.you might fool yourself but not me.

[um]

@ 777

I developed a tinitus after being exposed to loud sound in a concerthall many years ago.
I have learned to live with it but it was not a pleasure..
And ...
rember his words .... it is all in his hands..
You people think you know better and that YOU can change anything for yourself and others.
Nonsense

[‼️. good firewall ‼️]

Hi Um

I so pleased I can return good to U after U helped me
with your advise : "Wear socks and keep me feet warm while a sleep."
It even helps better urinate at my 84th

Yes Tinnitis is unpleasant and can be even horribly painful.

Probably you know the FAKE story from Genesis about God punishing guys who desired some knowledge plus the unbelievable apple story on
Eve, . . but Adam didn t receive an apple
but a STEAK.
That made the Landlord so angry , he immediately chased these killers out
and placed some Cyborgs , called Seraphines at the entrance

Those 2 gurls changed human DNA a little bit
aiming to make it impossible to return ( join God; . . be absorbed in God ) with alcohol/drugs,
or animal residues in their bloood
Now we know that animals before to be killed ; otherwise tortured have lots of adrenaline - we eat that and it becomes uric acid in humans

A perfect firewall against cruels approaching Heaven sometimes called Sach Khand in ( meaning unifying with the Almighty Creator )
which is your Soul but is in amnesia totally actually

With bad blood one can never stop what Dr Phill calls the "Inner Dialogue"
for even a second
and with this inner (often crazy) talk to ourself there is never meditation
at best contemplation

Charan also forbade "Satsangs" when the sphere was not OK
I assume Hilversum is closed due to Govid anyway

So much to say but most I wrote already here in the comments

777

[um]

@
In older days I would believe what others say thinking I had to digest it in some way or make it my own.
These days whatever people say stays with the speaker and at most informs me about what they are doing, what keeps them going.

After I woke up in the cinema, I came to realize how much my head, brain or whatever with information of third parties, things they told be, things I believed being raised to see others as experts. Reading here you might understand what I mean. People are all discussing stuff from others the like of talking about an apple pie baked by others. Discussing among temselves what the think of the baker, the result its taste etd without ever baking themselves a pie and discussing that.

So I do my best to get rid of all those things I have heard of and have no reality in my day to day life..

You have and always had so called inner experiences and that is what you have to deal with. Not having these experiences I have nothing to say about these experiences of other people they have no meaning ... and .... there is no need for me to spend even a second of my time to think about the reality of these experiences of others, their cause, their reality.

Let me give an example ... i was told about an incident in dera where satsangis reported huzur that there was somewhere a dead cow laying around. He bluntly denied and told them there were no dead cows on the dera. This shocked some and even doubted his sanity. Well if I would have been around I would have said.: "look if he says that corpse is not a dead cow, so be it. but I see a dead corpse and that is all there is to it. It would make no difference to me.

And what makes me smile often is the fact that I even better understood what sant mat is all about after I left it behind as far as the role of a seeker is concerned.

Your inner experiences are like a nightmare, they only matters to those that have them, I have no experiences and nightmares, so for me these are just hollow concepts and as I do not desire a nightmare i do not desire an inner experience.

Yes, the first 15 years were a pleasure, great people, great atmosphere, great understanding. I came to learn more about human psucholgy in those years than ever before. for which I am gratefull, to use a nonsense word.

[Ram]

The dirty old murderer, Gurinder singh dhillon is all over the papers meeting PM modi. Hypocrite, liar and fake , it's clear he is all about money power and greed rather than spirituality. Shame on you gurinder, you say you had no POLITICAL AFFILIATION but the photos with the PM speaks volumes.

[Kk]

Whatever is true must come out. Sant Mat should come in front of everyone with truth with an open heart

[Fools]

RSSB has lied about it’s membership numbers since the beginning of the (in)famous Singh/Dhillon money laundering scam.

They post 4M followers on the RSSB website for years and suddenly overnight they bumped it up to 20M to make it seem like GSD had more “constituents” 🤣

Just do a forensic web search of archived web pages.

The belief that GSD had more followers (which equals power in India) than he actually does, essentially helped keep him from going to jail.

Amazing how a simple change in a single number on a basic website can change the perception of a cult leader. With just 4M followers spread out worldwide he might actually be in jail right now.

😂

[Joe]

@Fools

Where does it say they have 20M followers. Can you post a link.

[arun marwah]

Nothing wrong with Sant Mat teachings. Only thing wrong is the head himself taking a different direction to what his predecessors were preaching.

[Truthseeker]

These guys “Manoj, Uchit, Sonya are followers of another con baba Rampal in India who claims to be reincarnation of sant Kabir and currently in Jail serving for Murder.