The chance that you know something others don't is very small

After over fifty years of pursuing spirituality in one form or another, I've come to one firm conclusion. I'm nothing special.

And neither are you. Nor is anybody else.

Now, I'm not saying that everybody is the same. Obviously every person is different. We all have different thoughts, emotions, talents, likes and dislikes, appearance, and so on.

What I mean is that we're all material beings living in this material world, to sort of quote Madonna. 

So whatever we know about the world, almost certainly other people possess the same knowledge. Most of us like to think that in some way we're special when it comes to what we know. 

But the truth is that we're not. 

Some would say that our beliefs can be unique, shared by no one else. But a belief is different from knowledge. Knowledge is a true statement about reality, while a belief isn't.

Sure, we often say things like "I believe the Earth goes around the Sun." Actually that is something we know. It's a fact. 

Whereas "I believe in God" is a genuine belief. It isn't grounded in reality. There's no demonstrable evidence for that statement. 

Beliefs are limited only by our imagination. Knowledge is limited by what is true. 

Of course, a belief can be transformed into knowledge through evidence. And evidence can transform knowledge into belief if what once was thought to be true turns out to be untrue.

For example, almost everybody used to know that the Earth was flat. Now we know it is round, so that confident initial knowledge actually was a shaky belief.

Yet there's still a Flat Earth Society. Untrue beliefs take a long time to completely die, if they ever do.

A few days ago I wrote "A Bayesian argument against miracles." The takeaway quote by Steven Pinker in that post was Which is more likely -- that the laws of the universe as we understand them are false, or that some guy got something wrong?

This relates to the notion that no one possesses special knowledge. Over thousands of years, humanity has built up a store of shared knowledge.

It is ever-changing, which is the nature of knowledge. The more we know, the more there is left to know. Sometimes this is described as the Island of Knowledge having a vaster shoreline as the island expands in size.

Science is by far our best means of arriving at a shared understanding of what is real and true. Sure, scientific knowledge is constantly changing, just as our individual knowledge does. 

But science has ways of correcting errors that individuals don't. It may take a while for an untrue theory to be overturned. However, there's no doubt that science steadily progresses toward a more accurate picture of reality.

This accomplishment means, in Carl Sagan's words, that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

During the seventeen years this blog has existed, I've debunked a great many religious supernatural claims. This doesn't stop people from continuing to believe in them.

Almost every day someone leaves a comment on one of my posts that amounts to an extraordinary claim about the nature of reality. If true, it would overturn much of modern science, since the claims people make go against the well-proven laws of nature.

But those extraordinary claims always lack extraordinary evidence. Or even ordinary evidence. 

The big question is, why do people continue to believe things that lack demonstrable evidence? There are plenty of reasons. Here's a few of them.

-- They want to believe in the supernatural so badly, they ignore the lack of evidence for it.
-- They enjoy the attention other people give them when they make supernatural claims.
-- They like to feel they possess knowledge no one else has.
-- They are out to make money from followers who revere them.
-- They have deluded themselves into mistaking belief for knowledge.

Having been a religious believer for thirty-five years, I understand the appeal of considering that God, spirit, heaven, angels, and such are as real as rocks, goldfish, iPhones, and clouds.

But eventually I grew out of my unfounded religiosity, because solid truth was more important to me that flimsy belief. This is why I put so much emphasis on being honest about what we actually know, versus what we would prefer to be true.

Wishes are one thing. Reality is another. 

Comments

[um]

@ Brian

Of course you are right in in what you write about what we know but there is more to life than what we know .... many will know your wife, your dog and the may other things that have your attention, as well as you do but do they love all in the same way?

Many can go to a concert, view a movie see a painting but in general only a few will have set their hearts in fire.

It is said that Paul, concluded that when can have and know everything in life but without love that knowledge is like beating a hollow drum.

[Spence Tepper]

"This is wondrous strange."...
"There is more in heaven and earth Horatio, than the contents of your philosophy."
From Hamlet, by Shakespeare.

Every scientist, mystic and explorer entering a new realm of discovery witnesses special knowledge.

But there is also the long standing belief in the status quo whose zealots claim" If I don't see it, it doesn't exist. "

For vision to exist, here, it must co - exist with blindness.

For hope in things unknown to exist, it must co-exist here with nihilism, fatalism and cynicism.

Every new discovery, every new idea, every new creation is special. It is an awakening birth.

And each person, because of their uniqueness, has the power to witness something new or a new perspective. And that singular view is entirely special.

[um]

@ Spence

Uniqueness = the endless variation of the same.

There are no new things, they were never there, they will never come.

[um]

@ Brian

>> The big question is, why do people continue to believe things that lack demonstrable evidence?<<

What made you ask for initiation?

And ..

motives you suggest her are all negative.

Are their also positive motives?

[Brian Hines]

um, if someone speaks publicly about a supernatural experience that isn't true, because there is no demonstrable evidence that a supernatural realm even exists, much less that humans can experience it, there are only two possibilities.

(1) The person knows what they're saying is false, and says it anyway.
(2) The person is deluded, but doesn't know this, and says it anyway.

Can you think of a positive motive for either (1) purposely lying, or (2) saying things that are false, yet the person wrongly considers them to be true?

In the first case, the person is certainly not acting from a positive motive. In the second case, the person only has a positive motive based on a falsehood -- in the same way that those ignorant of the benefits of Covid vaccines think they're doing a public service by urging other people not to get vaccinated.

This shows that even when people aren't aware that what they're saying is false, their speech can harm other people. Spreading supernatural superstitions is clearly harmful, since it helps weaken confidence in reality, and it's obvious that truth-telling already is on the decline across the world.

Religions just make this decline worse.

[um]

@ Brian

Before Brian, before all this happens and can be concluded.

BEFORE, one enters a so called spiritual bookshop, one must be motivated.
These motivations have nothing to do with the bookshop, what can be found inside and the truth to be found in the books.

Curiosity too is not the motive but the outcome of something behind it.

So again what was your motivation to ask for initiation and what made you hang on for so many years. ... they are not related to what you wrote above, I suppose.

And what you wrote above I do agree with but that is something outside yourself, it is an evaluation.

[um]

And Brian ..

most of what you write about is related to what made you turn your back upon what you once was motivated to do and is an evaluation of others

What others do, has no power over ones decisions. Decisions are always our own ... an .. for our own reasons.

Most if not all things you know are known by many others too and maybe much more but it was never an reason for them to make the same decision as you did.

It is a personal thing.

[um]

@ Brian

as far as this is concerned.
>> um, if someone speaks publicly about a supernatural experience that isn't true, because there is no demonstrable evidence that a supernatural realm even exists, much less that humans can experience it, there are only two possibilities.

(1) The person knows what they're saying is false, and says it anyway.
(2) The person is deluded, but doesn't know this, and says it anyway.<<

It surprises me to be honest as, we humans:
We all have all sorts of things going on inside. Call the inside brain, head or whatever.
We dream, we halicunate, we have have out of the body experiences, we have drug altered experiences, we have near death experiences etc etc etc.
We do accept these things as they are reported, They are also described and studied at universities etc. ... but ... they cannor be shown to others.

These phenoma are so enormous in both quality and quantity, that I is impossible for me to say that these people that report them are all deluded, liars or whatever.

For good order .. I do not say a word about the meaning people attribute to these fenomena.

So because something cannot be shown to others and because others are not able to created it for themselves it doesn't mean, it doesn't exist.

When younger I would have very vivid dreams flying in cities, over landscapes, very impressive. They ended when I hit a wooden obstacle in a cathedral ... ahahaha

But does that make me a liar or delude?

For decades I have meditated without experiencing a thing. Does that mean there is nothing to experience. For me the answer is .. no. Why I was not able, or why it did not happen, I just do not know. Over the years I did however studied my own efforts and the motives etc behind it and came to learn a lot about myself and about the human mind etc in general.

[Dungeness]

@ Brian Ji : [ um, if someone speaks publicly about a supernatural experience that isn't true, because there is no demonstrable evidence that a supernatural realm even exists, much less that humans can experience it, there are only two possibilities. ]

IMO though it's appropriate to ask what's "demonstrable evidence"
mean, particularly if the doubter deems the subject "supernatural".
Spreading demonstrably fallacious and unsupported "facts" about
Covid is clearly objectionable. But how do you assess whether the
supporting evidence for a supernatural claim is valid?

Are there sure-fire markers? Evidence can't be seen... check. No
controlled studies... check. No journal papers...check. Ergo it's all
woo-woo. What about the proven health and cognitive benefits of
mindfulness which many religious and mystic practices employ?
Oh, or is it only the more outlandish religious rituals and crazy,
unprovable claims in the crosshairs?

If it's the latter, then skepticism is certainly warranted. But to
conflate them with beneficial practices and mystical claims (that
must be proven within via one's inner awareness) is wrong. It's
strongly suggestive of an unscientific bias against Sagan's
"extraordinary evidence" that can be found right inside you.

[Manoj]

The chance that you know something others don't is very small , lets take clueless Gurinder Singh Dhillion as a perfect example here.

Reality shows us were nothing special true and so true. But some think they're a know-it-all when in reality they know, nothing at all.

Gurinder Singh Dhillion a famous know to much who hasn't got the faintest even about human moral codes, let alone any God like virtues.

Come to think about it isn't the same old boring repeat mode Gurinders Radha Soami Satsangs played endlessly everywhere everytime worldwide, shows the true emptiness of enlightenment that Gurinder so hidingly holds so high.

So exposed and living a deluded denial life is the very essence of the making of a scam artist baba. Pity not many can see through this and waste they're precious only life after this fool in foolishness

For nothing gained is nothing experienced in Gurinder Singh Dhillions case
This ship sails empty on the stormy seas of lies.
Wishes are one thing. Reality is another. 

For In truth, when we know nothing, we come to know, everything...

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"There are no new things, they were never there, they will never come."

Until we know all, anything we discover, uncover, even create, invent, is entirely new. For us here it is so.

Yes each moment looks much like the one that preceded it. But it is not the same moment. Upon inspection, which mindfulness can yeild, it is clear that each moment is 100% not the last, unique, and New.

So why do cynics and nihlists cling to that old notion that nothing is new?

Unless they know all, and that is quite prsumptuous, there is a lifetime of discovery before them. Many lifetimes.

Discovery that must be paid with the price of an open mind.

All science proves this : what you can't see contains the unknown, and the unknown contains all the rest of reality. And what we know isn't even half the story.

[um]

@ Spence

The variations are endless, but what variates remains the same. This can be seen on many levels. On each level it might appear different but on closer observation it turns out to be the same. So even the levels of observation are part of the process.

I do not deny the appearance of the unique variation, how could I and why would I?!
But after a while the sameness becomes more intriguing and being puzzled by yet another variation of that sameness just is an distraction of the sameness.

A Gazing for a moment the thought arose ... that in Genesis the creator after every creation says ... and it was good. So one can look at all the differences of creation but one can be satisfied with the goodness of just one to know the goodness of all

[Tendzin]

OK, what then is the "nature of reality"? So far, science hasn't given us an explanation as to how something (i.e., everything) came from nothing.

If the argument against religion is such a slam dunk, why then the need to reduce all religious believers to charlatans and ego-driven four flushers? It's pretty clear that the world of religion has a large spectrum of people, many of whom have noble and self-less interests.

That other guy with an RS site used to make similar arguments about how science provides all the answers. "How then did life begin," I'd ask him. "Science is getting closer to the answer!" he'd reply. Closer to the answer is not an answer.

He'd rail against those who believed in miracles, and gurus who promoted miracles, which is fine. But he would offer his stories about inexplicable phenomena connected with Charan Singh and give them a pass from the same scrutiny. He'd make fun of the idea of initiation, and then write about how sacred he held his initiation from Charan. He'd make fun of RS meditation and then tell us how he meditated hours each day and scrupulously kept every vow. He'd write about how RSSB initiates only loved Charan for what they could get from him, whereas his love for Charan was genuine. He'd write about how Gurinder was an egomaniac for being called "Babaji," but ignored completely Charan calling himself "Maharaji." And so on.

My point here is twofold:

1) Most people who join religions already have their basic belief systems and values intact. The religion doesn't really change their basic nature.
2) When people leave religions, they still carry their basic beliefs systems and values with them. Leaving the religion doesn't really change their basic nature...

....which includes the need to be right and have the answers. Religious people have no monopoly there.

Another example: I'm old enough to remember Chuck Colson, one of Nixon's guys who went down with the Watergate scandal. Colson's M.O. back in his Nixon days was "these are the bad guys over there (democrats) and we've got to stop them!"

Then Colson was sent to prison, found Jesus, and became born again. After he became a Christian, I'd sometimes hear him on A.M. Christian radio, not talking about agape or feeding the hungry or the finer points of theology, but rather "there are these bad guys over there (gays, whatever) and we've got to stop them!"

So, in many cases, leaving a religion really doesn't change a person. They will generally be the same person they were before they found the religion. Their own values are what prompted them to join the religion in the first place, and one's core values rarely change.

And believing in a supreme being? I've yet to hear an argument or see evidence on how exactly that hurts anyone.

[Ron E]

This is my own view that l have arrived at after similar experiences that Brian expresses here:-

What appears to give us the feeling of being special or different from other life forms is obviously the knowledge we have accumulated over the centuries - and in our individual lifetimes - we term mind.

Although we are similar to other biological creatures, it is our minds that make us feel special - in particularly the phenomenon called the 'me', 'self' or 'l'.

We seem to live in a sort of 'mind sphere' that keeps us isolated from nature, from reality. Is it perhaps the re-connection that we feel and spend much of our energies searching for?

[Spence Tepper]

There is a place of bliss and joy deep within. You may call it a region. Or just a physiology. But it is there, and you can experience it every day. Many do. Their evidence is well documented, even in scientific literature as the result of Meditation practice.

That is absolutely real. Why fatalists, cynics and nihilists deny it, I believe, is self - evident.

[um]

@ Spence

A man walking the streets were drunk people sleep, homeless people and entering this bar and that Mv Donalds and so many other places ... telling all that healt can be had , wealth can be had and happiness, it is there for everybody

Then he goes to the many refuge camps spreading the same message and finished he goes to the places that siuffer from drought or the opposide and goes aroun the whole world reminding the people that they can be healthy, wealthy and happy.

He doesn't understand why people are so preoccupied with the circumstances of life after all there is that place of happiness inside.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote:
"He doesn't understand why people are so preoccupied with the circumstances of life after all there is that place of happiness inside."

It isn't hard to understand. What we don't know can't help us. In fact what we don't know can kill us. That's why he's there reminding them of the immediate source of relief, within.

If even the hard sciences have already proven this escape is available, and healthy, it is no longer an issue of spirituality or superstition, but proven fact.

Those unwilling to go there should not stand in the way of those who, had they known, would gladly do so.

When someone offers assistance within your reach, for the price of a little self-discipline, I would say that reflects a very deep understanding, and compassion for the problem.

[um]

@ Spence

Yes, we all now that we can win the lottery, if ... if we buy a ticket.
Yes, we all know that all Americans can become president

but Spence .. the chances that this will be the outcome is almost nil
But ...Yes it can be had.

>>When someone offers assistance within your reach, for the price of a little self-discipline, I would say that reflects a very deep understanding, and compassion for the problem.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"but Spence .. the chances that this will be the outcome is almost nil
But ...Yes it can be had."

If anyone understands, even in concept, this bliss, they are half way there already. The lottery treasure is inside everyone. Not limited to a few, but all. It is a matter of practice to partake of it. And then deepening that practice through care, refinement, discipline, effort. These qualities arise naturally through devotion to the subject, just as they do through devotion to any career.
It's just bliss. Everyone can access it.

But how far will they go? As far as they are drawn to it, connected to it, see it well enough to honor it and adjust to it, as for any career. And they will reap the benefits.

Some may become billionaires, some millionaires, some will gather a six figure income, and others simply find daily sustainance. If you love the Good, love God, even the concept of a loving God, you will find happiness at all levels. And you will have both sanctuary and a tireless, devoted Partner to carry you through the difficulties that are simply part of living.

Your attitude determines your altitude here.

[um]

@ Spence

As has happened before the answer was much longer but did not appear. One of us or both were protected ... by unseen forces ... hahaha or technical misery.
Anyway
I am not going to repeat what I wrote, but the central point was that what you write about the easy availability for others, is not correct, to say the least.
Even without referring to the teachings everybody can understand that what you talk about is not within the reach of most, like in the material domain the possibility to become millionaire or billionaire.
Just listen to the Q&A sessions to hear the lament of the people that have meditated for decades and read the blogs of exers.
Ask the owner of this blog ... he wrote books about it, he meditated for decades without avail.
In the many years I have been associated with this path I have met NOBODY that spoke up as you do, they all were waiting for the big moment to come. They could not even open the third eye let alone have daily contact with the inner master.
It is simple not correct what you are doing.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
The experience of peace and bliss goes far beyond just Sant Mat.

All those meditators whose blood pressure went down, whose cancer treatments were more effective in conjunction with mediation; all those whose DNA repaired itself, and those students who scored better; those employees whose career advanced in part from the peace, focus and insight they gained from meditation speak to the opposite of your argument. Many people enjoy the inner light and the inner music.

It's built in.

But sometimes you have to it rock bottom, just sit in total darkness without complaint for a little while, to see the candle light inverted from above, and hear the divine music.

[um]

@ Spence

For a moment I wanted to type here how much time and effort I did spend but I am not going to do it and stand the temptation to place here his elaborate answer to me regarding the aim of Sant Mat meditation, that too i will not do.

The first sentence tells the story of strolling away from the teachings that were imparted on you. That is alright, that is up to you and not for me to have an opinion on but they are just your own.

Strange, of all the people that are known to me that made it public that they had at least regularly contact with their inner teacher, all without exception, opened what I use to call it "their own shop" and all proponed things that were unheard of in Beas.

A liitle while ...compare to eternity the time I spend is indeed a little, worth not even to be named, but compared to a lifetime is is a complete other matter.

Over time I have come to accept my fate, there is no resentment whatsoever I just find id difficult that you present your thoughts carrying his flag.

But that too has to be what it is.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
I understand your thoughts.

But you are in the right place in so far as you accept me for who I am, and not as a representative of the Path.

Aren't we both students?

And don't we both hold an opinion?

Isn't that enough?

You have your opinion of the path as do I.

Anyone serious about Meditation should certainly look at Sant Mat, if it appeals to them.

There are so many schools of meditation, and all have a grain of truth. All roads do lead to the same destination, over time, because these are not roads of our invention, but of the reality we rely upon to lead us.

Light, the same light, filtered through many different windows.

It's in the hands of our Master, Um. His reach extends far, far beyond the initiates.

And we are all connected.

[Spence Tepper]

And Um,
As to your comment
"of all the people that are known to me that made it public that they had at least regularly contact with their inner teacher, all without exception, opened what I use to call it "their own shop""

I guess I am that exception Um. I have no shop. I'm a student, just like you.

I'm a Satsangi, just like you.