« Know that you know a lot less than you think you know | Main | Atheists more likely to believe in paranormal than religious people »

October 29, 2021


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

If we understand we have been our own worst enemy because of our own lust, anger, greed, attachment and pride, and we are happier in moments without them, then it is natural to want to get rid of them. Just as it is natural to want to end any bad habit.

I don't fault anyone for wanting to be rid of these, and striving on their own to do so.

If we can be better people, we will be happier. These habits and addictions we make excuses for end up killing us, making us less human. Tyrants indulge in them, they are conspicuous consumers of them, proud of them.

It's good to have at least enough consciousness, enough awareness, to see how we are hurting ourselves and those around us, to have that much sensitivity. Then we have some knowledge to act upon.

But if we are unaware of these things, then we must suffer the consequences anyway, entirely ignorant to our own actions which brought these consequences down upon our heads. I'm not talking about Karma. I'm talking about this life, right here and now.

If you become aware of your effect on other people, and on yourself, if every polluter did so, then that moment when their awareness grew, when they became woke, that is part of progress.

Once you accept all things, you see more, and then, accepting where you are, it is natural to change, step by step.

And it is natural to have falls, to slip backwards, yes. But again, putting aside defensiveness, putting aside excuses, working to regain that awareness, through acceptance, and effort, progress arises naturally of its own. No point rejecting that, however long the journey. In time you will see that accepting all things includes the responsibility to step forward as you awaken to that next step.

It is always better to participate in concert with nature rather than in ignorance acting against our own interests.

All natural human behavior is intentional ... that is where humans have a mind for.

We might not appreciate this or that expression of an intention but that is another question.

I don't know, Brian, I'm less than impressed with all this, I'm afraid.

RSSB, as well as other religions, they get one to act in ways that are not in consonance with one's true nature, that's true enough. Further, in some cases they result in people acting like out-and-out hypocrites, which, like you rightly say, isn't pretty at all. And the 'cure' for that is, in my view, to shine the light of reason and rationality and science on to religions. That light will itself dissipate the cobwebs of this disfunctionality. What that will leave behind is directly and spontaneously the 'naturalness' that this article advocates.

I simply don't see why we need turn to some system, like Zen, in order to be told to "act naturally". Acting naturally is what one does, well, naturally. The only thing that is needed is to use reason to remove the veil of superstition that dims that natural clarity. We certainly don't need yet another veil (Zen, in this case) in order to be instructed to act naturally.


For instance, my "natural" reaction to this Zen business is a tingling of my BS-meter. And my natural reaction to that tingling of my BS-meter is some degree of irritation. Both of which I now articulate, the reason for my BS-meter tingling as well as the nature of my irritation. How natural is that, right? And how blindingly deep and wise that natural expression of my natural thoughts and natural feelings? Hey, I'm a Zen master. Call me Sensei, everyone, and mentally bow low to me every time you happen to think of me, eh? And make sure to empty your minds when you hear me speak, we don't want coffee spilled all over the table, do we?


I don't really disagree with the apparently commonsense message of Zen. What puts me off about Zen is ... well, I've tried to discuss just that, in this comment (link: https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2021/10/genuine-spirituality-is-very-simple-not-like-religion-at-all.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e202788054450e200d#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e202788054450e200d) that I've posted just now to that other thread, in response to your comment to me.

@ AR

>> ..... they get one to act ....< ?!?!?!

They what?!

If you weep seeing a movie ... did the movie make you weep??

RSSB is like a book, a movie or a dish in a restaurant.

Whatever meaning or value it has or appears to have is ATTRIBUTED by the consumer..

Hm, okay, um, fair enough. That's right, no one "gets (anyone) to act" in some way, people do that themselves. You can't really abdicate your own responsibility for what you do, agreed. I stand corrected.

Nevertheless, while I might rephrase that somewhat differently in order to be technically correct, still, the point still stands, I think. No matter how you phrase it, that part of what Brian argues in the article proper is correct enough. Religions do encourage one to act, instigate one to act, facilitate one's acting, result in one's acting, in set prescribed ways that are not natural. (At least, if once again one takes care to be technically correct, I suppose in a very few cases the prescribed mode of conduct might turn out to be natural for those people; nevertheless, for the vast majority of folks that prescribed mode of conduct that they try to emulate/follow wouldn't be natural.) That much is indubitably true. So that part of Brian's argument, and mine as well, continues to stand, I should think, that correction notwithstanding.

@ AR

Nothing wrong with what you write.
During my whole life I have had to opportunity to witness how religion could become an burden on people but also how others did not suffer under the same pressure. For some it just was as you write, a natural reaction.

So there were mothers that gave birth to up to 26 kids because the churches prohibited the use of ant conception. For some that was a natural pleasure to give birth to as much children as possible for others it was an cheer nightmare. That said, the majority had maximum up to 4 children.

So it ends up that different people handle pressure in a different way.

Typing I hear the voice of my dad,eternal peace be upon his soul, saying to the Prior that came to our house to keep us straight on the path ... Father, he would said, if the lord you speak of, cannot forgive the small trespassings of this little human being, he is not worthy to be worshiped.

Humans are the actors, not the abstract institutions; humans that speak in the name of these abstractions, hide themselves behind it ... for good or bad intentions.

Yes some tools are more prone to be used in a "bad" way then others, they are more dangerous, doe a greater apeal to be used in a negative way ...but ... these tools themselves do nothing wrong. See the use of arms in the USA.

Religion is just another tool in the hands of mankind.

It is impossible to claim we act intentionally when that is mixed up with reacting emotionally and mindlessly.

Human beings are not omniscient, therefore our choices are entirely driven by our biochemistry, our history, our habits and our intelligence.

To be intentional is a wonderful goal. When we take time to look at things objectively we approach this power of intentionality.

The more we see, the more choices and options we become aware of, the closer we approach intentionality.

And the further we move away from blind reactivity.

There may have been one intentional decision long ago. But we didn't make that one, so our involvement is a result, not a cause. A reaction, not an action.

I love this
"When you listen to someone, you should give up all your preconceived ideas and your subjective opinions; you should just listen to him, just observe what his way is."

The entire creation opens up through this practice.

To have no context at all, but to simply observe and absorb is actually part of becoming One.

Merge with the reality around you and within you by accepting it.

Christian jokers should start with "beginners words" few thousand basic words to come out of unconscious mind created by false English language. And use of imagination not unconscious memory. Person with weak imagination should not try this as it will lead to damage of his brain or mind or both. This was the reason Osho Rajneesh was using basic English words in lectures.

Great blog Brian.

So Gurinder singh Dhillon feels so almighty that the sangat must try to tame : Lust, anger, greed, attachment, and egotism while he is guilty of them all:

Lust = GSD is the biggest womeniser on the planet, we all see how he looks at the ladies and flirts and boasts " he's too sexy for his shirt" in his satsangs

Anger = at those that are exposing this fool

Greed = being a billionaire isn't enough for this greedy man, and destroying people lives like his own blood nephews who are locked up in jail while the real criminal , GSD, is living a lavish lifestyle

Attachment = he is very materialistic and has private jets, helicopters and cars

Egotism = wants to portrays he is the only realised God in human form and the rest have to become enlightened by 2.5 hrs of pointless meditation daily for the rest of their life.

I just realized I went to my first RSSB satsang some 40 years ago. I was never a satsangi in that group but did attend satsangs over the years. I can't say that anyone ever treated me badly, though I did once get into a heated debate with a couple of satsangis in Petaluma. I'll spare group the details, but the gist was that these satsangis would say anything rather than admit RSSB or the guru had even a scintilla of fault.

And in my experience, of many decades, dealing with religious apologists of whatever religion, that is the common denominator. Whatever guru they follow, or whether they be RS, or Hindu, or Buddhist, Mormon or Catholic, or an "enlightened" sect like Eckankar, the true believing apologists would literally sooner jump off a cliff than ever admit their religion has any faults.

More to the topic, I've also encounters "spiritual four flushers," but that seems to be a minority personality type found in every religion. Once long ago I drove a long distance to see Maezumi Roshi in LA. One of his students gave me the impression that I could just show up and have an interview with him. Some woman with an extremely ostentatious faux zen demeanor was running the show there that day, and when I told her I wasn't an official member she pretty much spoke to me like I was a dog and told me to get out. I was probably as angry as I've ever been in my life, and if she hadn't been a woman things would have gotten ugly. All I could think was what a spiritual phony she was.

I don't think Maezumi Roshi or the local zen community made her that way though. How I handled the situation and how I felt about it was all my responsibility. If I play a game of giving up control to someone else, then sooner or later shit occurs. Even Gurinder said as much in one of those recorded talks: "never show weakness to other people, they'll take advantage of it." Whatever one thinks of Gurinder that's sage advice.

´ Even Gurinder said as much in one of those recorded talks: "never show weakness to other people, they'll take advantage of it." Whatever one thinks of Gurinder that's sage advice.´
Yes Tedzin, itś true that GSD says this more often.
I personly feel/think that it is stronger and healthier to just ´be´ as one feels.
That is more honest and that invites others to ´do´ the same..in their own way.

Just ´BE¨....
as you are..

Your experience Brian speaks, not like Gurinders Singh Dhillions which smells

Radha Soami Cult is an unnatural hypocritical religion which creates limitations on the individual and enforces its own set of control mechanisms and rules.
Which Gurinder Singh Dhillion hasn't even heard of anyway let alone live by any of them

They're created for you and not for me as he says, living daily and pushing himself to fufill his selfish needs of Lust, Anger, Greed, Attachment and Egotism.

And he doesn't fall short of them either. He's become quite a Superstar Google Baba. Quick search exposes all.
Has he over come anything?
Just his will to think he hasn't been Exposed, think again Gurinder Singh Dhillion you may, really get enlightened this time

The silly sevaders and sangat who follow Gurinders radha smelly cult live a replicated lie of his evil organised empire. Lying through they're teeth more times than repeating that 5 name Kaal simran which is a passport straight to hell. Full of ego, throwing they're weight around and still thinking they're the only ones who understand the meaning of real Seva?

Not a Saint in sight. Just Silly old Sinners...

Gurinder Singh Dhillion plays out an act on stage like a good old Punch and Judy show. Just know when the puppet comes of stage.
He's pulling his own dirty strings to enjoy his "five deadly sins" now thats one hypocritical saint

Your very brave in coming out with the truth @manoj

I will never trust Gurinder Singh Dhillon again. I been on the path for 25 years and nothing is the same anymore, and to be honest I've achieved nothing!!!!!!. I was told , if you down like the clown , don't go to the circus and I've seen this show again and again and I've had enough of RSSB and Gurinder and his hand chosen special sevadar henchmen that surround him.

"...A mind full of preconceived ideas, subjective intentions, or habits is not open to things as they are. That is why we practice zazen [meditation]: to clear our mind of what is related to something else."

---- Is it possible to clear our mind in the absence of meditation ??

I agree with a lot said on this blog unlike a few others I have participated in. Also, I have absolutely no idea why I am responding to this one. We are all alone in the deepest part of our life's journey to oblivion; joining up with anything is totally unnecessary and possibly even dangerous to one's being. I don't accept anyone telling me how things are but I do listen to those who indicate there is no path or formual for realizing how things really are. I also accept scientific information, though its domain is limited. Its genuineness its tentative, heistant conclusions and its open invitation to be doubted. In the quest for the ground of being I always come upon mystery regardless of the starting place or direction embarked upon. So, after the many years of inquery it is mystery that sustains me. Paradoxically, without its presence my life is empty and without life. I suppose this is so because my life is a mystery and observation without thought is the only way to contact it at all.


Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.