« Quantum theory doesn't say consciousness creates reality | Main | Religious beliefs can be false, yet useful »

September 11, 2021


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Well said, Brian.

I might add: The heinous attacks on the WTC were, frankly, more than matched by equally barbaric --- that is, morally and ethically barbaric, even if technically sophisticated --- butchering of Afghans and Iraqis and the like over the last two decades, the latest shocking installment of which (which, however, does not shock any more, because we're all inured to it) is the very recent, and latest, killing in Kabul of ten or eleven innocent Afghani civilians, including children, by a drone that mistakenly thought they were targeting terrorists.

But, as you rightly argue, eclipsing all of these horrors, and eclipsing them all by a very wide margin, is the horror of unthinking imbecile Trumpism.

***BRIAN*** Sorry, I accidentally posted this on your other blog - please delete that if inappropriate, was meant for here!

There has been nearly 656K thousand deaths from COVID in the US? Wow - that is truly tragic. What is the situation like over there now with COVID? UK is pretty much over it in the sense of a health service crises and general public fear, though we clearly live in the age of a new-normal (more people working from home or hybrid, still lots of people wearing masks although not mandated, etc).

Whilst Trump's attempt to manage the COVID crisis was jaw-droppingly, absurdly surreal bad, I think it is a bit unfair to blame him for all or most of those of those deaths. World leaders across the globe were caught off guard, and there has been deaths all over the world dependant on a whole variety of complex factors. It was clear at the beginning nobody really had a clue as to the seriousness or how to cope with it. I'm not even really sure if we know now. I think the situation kind of transcended personality politics. Though, again, sunlight and bleach cures were spectacularly bizarre suggestions to hear coming from the mouth of the leader of the free world and as was widely reported in European news, made the entire world (western at least) feel quite concerned at the lack of sane leadership, somebody to make everybody at least feel the illusion of security......

But yes, I am surprised at the general tone of your post, with which I generally agree - with the openness to admit that there are at least SOME things more important than religion to be concerned about.

I think vast swathes of the world, especially western, deeply empathised with the US and American citizens on 9/11, regardless of political or ideological sentiments. The sheer senseless horror and unimaginable suffering on the one hand, and then the disbelief that it had happened to Americans on American soil I think shocked most people.

But this is the point I have tried to make to Brian several times before, once we have a pet ideological hate, that against religion, theism and metaphysics for eg., it can blind us to an infinitely complex reality so that we only see what we want or are conditioned to see, and in so doing perpetuate ignorance, misunderstanding, distrust, hatred, war etc.

9/11 was NOT "caused" by Islamic fundamentalist any more than it was caused by American Airlines check in processes - 9/11 was the culmination of hundreds if not thousands of years and infinite causes.

THIS is precisely the danger - when somebody like prominent atheist Sam Harris states that all acts of "terrorism" (any semantics or semiotic experts want to unpack that little doozy of a word?) are caused almost exclusively due to Islamic doctrine and dismisses all attempts at deeper analysis of the cultural, historical, economic and political context, what he is actually doing is a) denying the reality of the millions of peace loving Muslims and societies that have existed, and far worse b) EXCUSING western governments of atrocious war crimes going back centuries and which continue to this very day (even under such great, US saving presidents like Biden), imperial and colonial meddling in the affairs of South American, African and Asian nations, and the primary motivator in almost all acts of Islamic terrorism (with, of course, infinite other lesser motivators).

It is mentioned that 3,000 people died on 9/11 - a truly horrific act and day. Only a damaged, sad human being would not feel anything but immense sorrow and compassion for all those affected by that sad day.

But what about the estimated 200,000 innocent civilians, men women and children, who were slaughtered in Iraq due to the illegal and unjust invasion which had - factually and obviously speaking - far more to do with the enriching individuals and corporations ad the natural resources of Iraq than Islamic terrorism?

Is is only Americans than are allowed to be scarred by such horrors, and strike back indiscriminately and without retaliation? Are we surprised that ISIS was a product of this unjust and barbaric invasion of Iraq? Are we surprised that many Islamic youth in these war torn countries where the west has come in, raped their resources, funded and fought wars, drone bombed, maimed, kill, dismembered etc already orphaned children, broken untold promises for decades upon decades without relent - are easily brainwashed by old, angry men and their dubious and flawed interpretations of the Koran and hadiths to fight their "jihad"?

If we are surprised, and can only find the cause for such "madness" on a book like the Koran, then I suggest that is due to living a life of extreme privilege and ignorance of reality, and an inability to empathise or identify with those in less fortunate circumstances.

I'm tired of people who are obsessed (and are still obsessed) with Donald Trump. It's the most inexplicable political phenomenon I've ever witnessed.

We have the covid vaccines because of Donald Trump. I also remember Trump hosting countless press conferences, appointing the sainted Dr. Fauci (covert gain of function funder), and pledging to do everything he could to help the country through the pandemic. Trump followed through on all those promises. That people blame him for any covid deaths is bizarre to me.

Portland is an absolute disaster of violent rioting. Why don't you focus on that for once?

I'm tired of our nation's 9/11 obsession

I'm tired too of Gurinder Singh Dhillion & the RS Cult, which has ruined more lives than both Covid 19 & 9/11 put together!!!

This religious extremist has done more damage than any Islamic extremists.
And still doing alot more, as we speak.

Thats something to really mourn about, let's hope and pray God puts a end to this real disaster, at that too soon.

It's insane that many extremists are being bread in the bullshite manipulative beliefs of the RSSB. Look at how many blind sheep would take a bullet for GSD as they really believe this clown is an incarnation of god and even more important than their very own family. Doesn't this insanity remind you of the Pharoah's of Egypt seen as vessels of the gods; Hitler was also seen as god, and his infectious and dangerous ideologies, influenced by entities, infected the minds of millions of germans to exterminate the Jews; and stalin. GSD needs to be exposed for being a fraudster, he is a womanizer, a HYPOCRITE, a liar, and a greedy old land mafia man. Justice needs to be served. He needs to renounce his position and close down RSSB which is nothing but harbouring self serving mafia and terrorists.

The reaction to 9/11 was/is exponentially worse than the tragedy itself. Several trillion dollars spent in Iraq and Afghanistan and the unimaginable suffering and death that occurred because of a USA invasion.....

Yes, 9/11 is horrible, but our reaction was worse and caused more death in the process.

We should look at 9/11 with a greater window and see what we did wrong as well.

@ ourreactionwasworse

The questions arises: "How would you have reacted as american president"?

What would have been the consequences if the USA had accepted the blow and reacted at all? Personally I think that would be the worst thing that could happen to a terrorist organization ... no terror

Can an army fight and win from an guerrilla force? Personally I think, it is impossible

Should an attack by guerrilla / terror forces be defended and attacked with an guerrilla force instead of an army? What if the USA created its own "counter terrorist guerrilla groups" that hunts down just that one group that had launched an terror attack and by doing so create terror within these groups.

Every time I see an American Marine, loaded like a donkey, going to fight this or that guerrilla fighter, with just some rounds of ammunition, how they think they can possible win such an fight.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.