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September 27, 2021


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I hesitate to say this, in case I'm mistaken in drawing the conclusion I do from this letter that you've presented here, Brian, but I'm afraid your correspondent seems to be trolling you.


Brian's Correspondent: Apologies if the above isn't true, and if your letter was in earnest.

But in that case, understand that vaccines save lives. Vaccines are our primary weapon against this Covid horror. No matter what kind of gathering, whether a circus, or a group viewing of hard-core porn, or a performance of Shakespeare or of Bach, or some "spiritual" gathering, they are doing the right thing in letting only the vaccinated get near.

The un-vaccinated get relegated to the back of the hall, you say? That is wrong, because the un-vaccinated should not be allowed to even be present in that gathering at all.


This isn't about freedom. Your freedom to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. You may have the freedom to put yourself at risk, but you have no right to put others at risk. If you aren't vaccinated, then your very presence is an unnecessary risk to people in high-risk categories --- and indeed, to everybody, in that you're helping the virus to stay on and mutate and develop new strains.


This is not to support RSSB at all. But to criticize them for supporting vaccination is majorly misguided, majorly deluded. And to compare that with something like Apartheid is ...I don't know, either this is trolling, or else this is so very misguided, so very confused, and so entirely ignorant of the actual horror that was Apartheid and that is racial prejudice, that further words fail me.

@ AR
I have not read that letter, only what you wrote about vaccination.

There are indeed an number of followers that are so convinced about the "truth" told by anti-vaccers, that for them the only reasonable conclusion must be, that the teachings and the teachers of Beas must be fake for that reason, as they believe that God is on their side.

It is painful to be confronted with what is going on in society for that reason.

In hour country there are also people that compare it with what happened in the last war, making official seen as Nazi's and themselves as their inocent victims, in protests the even dress up with clothing that remember s the holocaus.

Haha, your naivety is so sweet AR.....you're clearly not aware of the rules of this game :)

I like football, or soccer as Americans call it.....but I like to observe football TEAM fans even more. Football TEAM fans are curious; they will adore and idolise a player on their team like a god. But if that very same player changes TEAM, then those very same fans will criticise and abuse that very same player, how they play, how they look, how they live - even though it is the very same human being only wearing a different colour shirt! In such fashion do players go from humble, decent, brave and courageous human beings with extremely skilful abilities, to money grabbing scallywags with no ability, overnight.

May I suggest that in the fans criticisms of these players that intellectual integrity and truth is not a primary motivating factor?

In some case, some of these football TEAM "fans" go equipped for extremely violent confrontations with fans of the opposing team, before, during or after the game - preferably all 3 in the minds of these thugs.

At some point the question must arise, are these really fans of football? Do they even have an interest in football?

Yes, whilst it makes Brian "happy" to hear from somebody "seeing the downside of a religion", one can only be left a little bemused at what one must imagine to be the worldview of the original letter writer (I'm struggling with the "believed in the magical Godman, not so bothered by the obscene wealth, land grabs, innumerable inconsistencies and downright contradictions and errors in the teachings, the court cases and other legal dramas etc, but it's obvious he doesn't care for satsangis because he didn't reply to ME (and the other 2 million letters he received on that day) PERSONALLY, and now he's making unvaccinated people (ME) sit at the back of the hall and not do seva. This is very much like the colonial brutalisation and apartheid imposed on native Africans on their own land by foreign invaders simply because of the colour of their skin" line of thought....).

However, I do not believe this is a troll. I have very rarely encountered that level of almost-actually-intelligent deviousness on an RS forum, you can usually spot it from miles away.

You would be surprised at how many followers of RS - a path that eschews inter-connection and the sole aim or purpose of which is for the individual soul to escape this "negative" creation to it's "true home" of eternal bliss - especially from the west - have incredibly entitled and privileged view of themself and their place in the grand scheme of things. Social responsibility really is not only of no concern in the doctrine, it is as Um says actually anathema.......


Further, NRIs ]Non Resident Indians] can only be initiated at the Dera with a vaccine passport. He is now trying to force every initiate into becoming vaccinated. While I am neither for nor against the vaccine, I am pro choice (but I have chosen not to take it).

Brian's Correspondent:

This moron claims to be pro-choice. Well it's GSD's choice where he wants NRI's to be initiated and with what vaccination status.

The churches and mosques (certainly locally) are not taking this route. There, everyone is welcome. And that should be the case with RSSB - if it were truly non discriminatory.


Brian's Correspondent is super ignorant. The non descriminatory Covid related help rendered by RSSB in India is unparalleled. This moron needs to be reminded of that the RSSB centres were open to all, with Muslims even allowed to conduct their daily namaz IN THE CENTRES.

Name us even one mosque which allowed Hindus to conduct their prayers inside their mosques.

Brian's dislike of RSSB has been taken full advantage of by this fella. Didn't expect such foolhardy from Brianji.

Now Brianji do RSSB a huge favour.... Kindly brainwash this fellow to quickly disassociate himself completely from RSSB.

@ Manjit

Social responsibility really is not only of no concern in the doctrine, it is as Um says actually anathema.......

Who wants to discuss other things than football inside the stadium?
Who wants to buy shoes in a grocery shop?

How an individual deals with society, is for sure related to his choice to tive life as a satsangi ... as everything he does can effect, positively or negatively, that way of living.

Nobody can play football whole day. there are also other things to be done and if you are drunk playing football becomes an other thing.

Common sense.

My dear friend would time and again say ... Yes, yes Um, you are right, but why does it bother you. I thought that everybody that understood would, only upon hearing what I said, also be frustrated etc. So, my friend might not have understood ... and there we go ... we explain it in even more detail, more vigor and always that same answer.. In the end I grasped the idea ...bothering is a choice.

So Manjit, what GSD does doesn't bother me, it never did ..

@ GSD_Rules

You are not taught by GSD to call people names, not even those that are antagonistic to the teachings etc ... please do not do it.

Make otherwise your point as you like
and ...
The teachings, the teachers and the followers do not stand in need of support from anybody. It is not a football game that lives by its supporters

@ GSD_Rules

You are not taught by GSD to call people names, not even those that are antagonistic to the teachings etc ... please do not do it.

Make otherwise your point as you like
and ...
The teachings, the teachers and the followers do not stand in need of support from anybody. It is not a football game that lives by its supporters

Posted by: um | September 28, 2021 at 09:47 AM

If the quality of posts warrant use of certain adjectives so be it.

Plain simple calling a spade a spade.

But will keep your advice in mind and sugarcoat it to whatever extent possible.

I'm sure this exers views about vaccines pushed a lot of alarm bells, but I agree with him. The vaccines should be a choice, and there's zero evidence that the unvaccinated are any threat to the health of the vaccinated.

By the way, this policy of segregating the jab vs. the unjabbed is also part of U.S. Satsang policy.

Gurinder's stated views on covid are rather strange. He's said that the origins of the virus are somehow directly linked to environmental pollution, which is a theory that's completely out of left field. However, it is known that people with diabetes are especially at risk if they get the virus. And that leads to the question of how Gurinder developed diabetes. I can tell you how: India's vegetarian diet is extremely high in simple carbs, vegetable oil and sugar. So is China's, and by strange coincidence, these two nations lead the world in diabetes. So with that, I guess maybe Gurinder had it half right. The polution of one's body with a vegetarian diet (which is actually the only provable harmful practice that RSSB teaches) is the cause of mortality from covid.

@ Tendzin

Eating habits in a country, society or culture are not developed over night nor can they be changed over night.

These days more people live on a diet that was traditional created by and for farmers, people working hard with the body often under harsh circumstances.

And ... highly educated as you are, you know that vegan diet was not invented by RSSB .

those people that live long as to be found in Sardegna, eat very frugal, only a few times a day and have to work hard, so that whatever they eat leaves no "unburned ashes" in the body.

The need for vaccination is complex ... the most important is that if unvaccinated people get infected, the chances are great that they end up in the hospital and in the hospital on the intensive care units and doing so clog the sanitary systems of an country.

The unvaccinated are a treat to themselves and because there so many in some countries, the risks that they end up in the hospital and cause a breakdown of the whole healthcare. In many countries, even with a rich and highly developed health care system as one finds in Western Europa there is all ready an growing amount of care that has not been given.

Simple if the IC capacity of an country is overloaded with Corona related patients, they have to postpone planned, joint operations, etc etc.. If your elderly parents or their parents do need a new hip and that is postponed for a year, the condition of them is not become better.

Everyone must follow, and will follow, their own inclinations. And if they do so honestly, with full faith in their own inner sentiments, then all we can do is support them.

Will they make mistakes? Who doesn't.

Then the question arises, will they learn from them? It's one thing to say I should have known better. But what about today's errors? Can we also acknowledge that tomorrow we may view ourselves and our situation quite differently?

It is really easy to walk away, push the escape button when things become difficult.

But much more difficult to confront the barriers within ourselves.

Will this exer be able to do that?

Only if they can let go of blame, and focus on their own development.

When that day comes there won't be devotee and exer. There won't be two camps. There will only be people each trying to do what they believe is best. And leaning daily a little more about what that is.

To have any actual faith at all, we must relinquish intellectual notions that in truth we aren't grounded to, to find the ones we are. The ones we are willing to risk our life on. The real ones. And then pursue those with determination.

... And commitment.

This just shows how GSD doesn't give a monkey's about anyone but himself. The vaccine companies themselves have signed no liabilities clauses, which have been issued under an emergency use only in most countries; it's hilarious that there were no animal trials, and the reality is we are the lab rats. This selfish fake guru is only concerned as he is very vulnerable (cancer and diabetes) and yet he has a massive attention seeking complex and urge to maintain the crumbling RSSB kingdom. You can now see the lengths this dictator will go to force a choice on the free will of the sangat. His true colours are showing and he is exposing his own self as a total heartless vile human being.

@ Um

True, the vegan diet wasn't created by RSSB, but a vegetarian diet high in vegetable oils and carbs is a recipe for diabetes. The subject of diet is of course very complex, but my main point is that Gurinder has diabetes and I feel the evidence is strong that the "all natural" vegetarian diet was the cause of it, as it has been the cause of millions of other people in Asia. RSSB and also many other Indian religious groups have been claiming for many years that vegetarianism is a wonderfully healthy diet.

As for the need for vaccines, hospital staffing shortages are the bigger problem, rather than an overwhelming number of people with the virus. On that note, after seeing videos about what RSSB is doing for covid patients in India I have to give Gurinder and the Indian sevadars a huge amount of credit for the astounding large scale measures they've taken to help the ill.

As for the unvaccinated being a threat to themselves, I believe that is none of my business, nor is it the government's business. I believe in the civil liberties that are supposed to be every American's birthright, and that includes the right to say no when the government demands that you ingest drugs into your system.

I found your comment interesting at the top in red regarding separate seating. I too have no problem with any requests such as separate seating or mask wearing ....I respectfully comply. The non-vaccinated are ok not sitting close to the vaccinated too. Nothing about Covid is ideal. There may be unvxd (and vxd) who are not particularly healthy, nor careful, but I don't see myself in that category. I would just appreciate if people would redirect some of their anger and frustration of the unvxd towards those who the real deceivers/causers/ dare-I-say-masterminders are behind cvd and to reserve a little bit of healthy scepticism about everything we may not know yet about the long and short term side effects of the vaccines. I understand that there are many sincere scientists and doctors involved with the vaccines who deserve respect and thanks. But we should always go back to understanding that there is very little in life we "know for sure" which is not based on conditioning and on something we are told or have read. Would I want to be responsible for anyone else's decision to NOT get vxd? No. But I hope I can reserve the right for myself to not get vaccinated, and will mostly stay away from gatherings, will be masked and seated separately as requested and will try to stay healthy. (Please note that participating in the standard american diet cannot be considered trying to stay healthy.) I say all this humbly. I have a sensitive system. In a few years should people have side effects know that no-one will be rushing to acknowledge or compensate you, particularly since the people who are partially paralyzed or die or have a heart attack days after being vxd are not acknowledged. There are many food products and things in daily life which are carcinogenic. You don't hear about daily new cancer cases and deaths. Yet we all know several people with or who had cancer. We have watched them be drained of their resources being put through chemo and radiation. Many of them still tragically died after an extended battle. How about heart disease, much of which has a dietary cause. Have you compared the numbers on heart disease and cancer v covid? How about traffic accidents and motorist and pedestrian deaths. Do we get a regular update on those numbers? Who would lose out if we stopped buying packaged "food" products, buying cars and travelled less, bought less gas. So, until schoolkids are fed ACTUAL healthy lunches, cities are built to facilitate walking and cycling, I don't think anyone CARESA about our health...NO, hospitals and disease is big bussiness, and I'm not getting vxd. But I'll mask and sit wherever you want. And I love that our covid-related carefulness short of eradicated flu in the past year, because I for one got really sick of rude people coughing and sneezing their pestilence out over everyone. Thank you covid for stigmatizing coughing-and-sneezing-with-abandon, and teaching entitled people manners. Love you!

What's the big deal? Don't you guys get flu shots every year and tetanus shots every ten? Covid vaccines are chump change next to laying off meat, eggs, rennet, alcohol, drugs, tobacco and bed-hopping. But yeah, mosques and churches. When it comes to no one telling you what to do, the first places people think of!

@ Tendzin

This is what the Indian Government has to say:

And again, WHY, is the raise of Diabetes alarming?
What has happened to the Indian population after the second war?
Why is Diabetes raising in the USA and now also in Europe at an alarming rate?

The dramatic change in living conditions.!!

Infectious diseases are not and cannot be an matter of LIBERTY and it has never been so in History, irrespective where the diseases was.

If there is one rat pro square mile, he can do whatever suits him. If there are more they might meet occasional and say "hello". On becoming more the need arises for mutual reeling and dealing. Finally the moment comes that the square mile is so crowded with rat that the movement and activity of just one rat, will effect the whole community. That is the moment that the rat can only consume his liberties if his activities do not negatively effect the rest. .... Tenzin we have reached that point in most cities of the world.

The robotisation of labor, the availability of food, the consumption of prefabricated food, and last but not least .... street food.Just have a look at some Youtube video's on the selling of "MAGGI"

For a man, having a sedentary lifestyle, lots of Masala Chai and rich food, how can he escape diabetes>

What the shortages is concerned ...[1] in most countries they just do not have the money to run hospitals in the sophisticated level that is possible these days. or [2] they are not willing to spend money and prefer to use their money for other puposes like having great armies [3] most countries have no proper insurance system [4] If you do not pay nurses a proper wage, you will not have enough nurses to run an hospital and certainly not an IC that demands high skilled nurses.

For your information, it is in English

@ Tendzin e.a.

We have a saying that..... soft surgeons make stinking wounds.

These days in hospitals, more and more money is invested in more and more extreme and rare forms of diseases.
Some of these diseases can be cured or made better by medicines developed by pharmaceutical Industries, that demand up to a million for one cure.
That hold also for the sophisticated and extreme expansive machinery.

So ... most or ever growing parts of the budgets available in hospitals is consumed in the attempt to cure and save the lives of more and more rare diseases in fewer patients.

As a dollar or an Euro can only be spent once, the consequence is that there is less and less money for more people, with more common and simple to cure diseases.

This pressure has now become so high in some of the western countries that the discussion has started about who can have a bed in the IC and who not.

In the end societies will crumble under the pressure of costs for health care, housing and defense.

@ Um

Then there's this study:

"The Emergence of Vegetarianism: Decline in Protein Consumption
Following the transition to agriculture, the emergence of vegetarianism is likely to have exerted an additional dietary stress...Through the influence of Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism, vegetarianism became widespread in India and has been widely practiced for over 2000 years. On the basis of recent empirical studies, its low-protein regime is likely to have impacted growth and development. This is especially relevant to growth patterns in early life as, in accordance with Hindu cultural traditions whereby males eat before females, the de facto level of vegetarianism is higher in females than males (though not through choice). Maternal protein intake in early pregnancy is positively associated with birth weight (153, 154), and a study of UK children born to vegan mothers reported reduced weight and stature, compared to national growth standards (155). Dietary protein intake in infancy (156–158) and childhood (159–161) are also positively associated with rates of growth in weight and stature, although whether either of energy or protein is a limiting factor for infant growth may depend on the dietary availability of the other (162)"

RSSB books decry animals foods as "toxic" (see Quest for Light) and vegetarian foods as beneficial for health. I'm sure the RS gurus believed this to be true, but I don't feel it stands up to current evidence. Type 2 diabetes and many other conditions can be reversed on a low carb diet or even a fully carnivore diet. They can also likely be reversed with a low-carb vegan diet. My point though is that a vegetarian diet (or even one that includes meat) that's high in vegetable oils and grains is a recipe for type 2 diabetes, and the key reason why India and China lead the world in suffers of that disease.

"Vegetarian diets continue to increase in popularity. Reasons for following a vegetarian diet are varied but include health benefits, such as reducing your risk of heart disease, diabetes and some cancers."
Mayo Clinic


" Compared with non-vegetarians, Western vegetarians have a lower mean BMI (by about 1 kg/m2), a lower mean plasma total cholesterol concentration (by about 0.5 mmol/l), and a lower mortality from IHD (by about 25 %). They may also have a lower risk for some other diseases such as constipation, diverticular disease, gallstones and appendicitis. No differences in mortality from common cancers have been established. There is no evidence of adverse effects on mortality. Much more information is needed, particularly on other causes of death, other morbidity including osteoporosis, and long-term health in vegans. The evidence available suggests that widespread adoption of a vegetarian diet could prevent approximately 40 000 deaths from IHD in Britain each year."

Cambridge University


" A vegetarian diet is inversely associated with diabetes risk."


"This comprehensive meta-analysis reports a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (−25%) and incidence from total cancer (−8%). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (−15%) of incidence from total cancer."

Critical reviews in food science and nutrition 57 (17), 3640-3649, 2017

"Scientific data suggest positive relationships between a vegetarian diet and reduced risk for several chronic degenerative diseases and conditions, including obesity, coronary artery disease, hypertension, diabetes mellitus, and some types of cancer. Vegetarian diets, like all diets, need to be planned appropriately to be nutritionally adequate.
1. Position Statement
It is the position of The American Dietetic Association (ADA) that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, are nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases...

"Studies indicate that vegetarians often have lower morbidity ((1)) and mortality ((2)) rates from several chronic degenerative diseases than do nonvegetarians. Although nondietary factors, including physical activity and abstinence from smoking and alcohol, may play a role, diet is clearly a contributing factor.
In addition to the health advantages, other considerations that may lead a person to adopt a vegetarian diet pattern include concern for the environment, ecology, and world hunger issues. Vegetarians also cite economic reasons, ethical considerations, and religious beliefs as their reasons for following this type of diet pattern. Consumer demand for vegetarian options has resulted in increasing numbers of foodservices that offer vegetarian options. Presently, most university foodservices offer vegetarian options.
1.2 Health Implications of Vegetarianism
Vegetarian diets low in fat or saturated fat have been used successfully as part of comprehensive health programs to reverse severe coronary artery disease ((3), (4)). Vegetarian diets offer disease protection benefits because of their lower saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein content and often higher concentration of folate (which reduces serum homocysteine levels) ((5)), antioxidants such as vitamins C and E, carotenoids, and phytochemicals ((6)). Not only is mortality from coronary artery disease lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians ((7)), but vegetarian diets have also been successful in arresting coronary artery disease ((8), (9)). Total serum cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels are usually lower in vegetarians, but high-density lipoprotein cholesterol and triglyceride levels vary depending on the type of vegetarian diet followed ((10)).
Vegetarians tend to have a lower incidence of hypertension than nonvegetarians ((11)). This effect appears to be independent of both body weight and sodium intake. Type 2 diabetes mellitus is much less likely to be a cause of death in vegetarians than nonvegetarians, perhaps because of their higher intake of complex carbohydrates and lower body mass index ((12)).
Incidence of lung and colorectal cancer is lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians ((2), (13)). Reduced colorectal cancer risk is associated with increased consumption of fiber, vegetables, and fruit (14., (15)). The environment of the colon differs notably in vegetarians compared with nonvegetarians in ways that could favorably affect colon cancer risk ((16), (17)). Lower breast cancer rates have not been observed in Western vegetarians, but cross-cultural data indicate that breast cancer rates are lower in populations that consume plant-based diets ((18)). The lower estrogen levels in vegetarian women may be protective ((19)).
A well-planned vegetarian diet may be useful in the prevention and treatment of renal disease. Studies using human being and animal models suggest that some plant proteins may increase survival rates and decrease proteinuria, glomerular filtration rate, renal blood flow, and histologic renal damage compared with a nonvegetarian diet ((20), (21))."

American Dietetic Association

Why I regret being a vegetarian:

(One of the harmful effects of long-term vegetarianism noted in that article is loss of bone density. By chance, I just happened to finish reading Bill Walton's autobiography in which he details the horrible problems he had during his sports career with his bone health. All his doctors were perplexed at why his bones refused to heal. Walton has been a vegetarian since the 1970s and scoffs at those who told him he needed to eat meat.)

Vegetarianism only healthy if it's done "correctly" (which few veggers agree upon)

Legions of people who were sold on vegetarian and vegan diets are finding that their long term health problems -- including mental health and severe mood problems -- only went away when they began eating meat.

I've noted that many of the vegetarian satsangis in the RSSB videos are tipping toward obesity. Huge vats of vegetable oil in the langar kitchen have something to do with it. And the guru himself has diabetes from this diet. The other guru, the guy in Chicago, is a lifelong vegetarian and quite corpulent. Vegetarianism just isn't what it's cracked up to be.

"Recent evidence from large prospective US and European cohort studies and from meta-analyses of epidemiological studies indicates that the long-term consumption of increasing amounts of red meat and particularly of processed meat is associated with an increased risk of total mortality, cardiovascular disease, colorectal cancer and type 2 diabetes, in both men and women. "


" MONDAY, Feb. 3, 2020 (HealthDay News) -- After a weekend of football-shaped pigs-in-a-blanket, you probably don't want to hear that the latest study on red and processed meat found that these foods boost your risk of heart and blood vessel disease.

" The study also found that meat ups your risk of premature death.

"Consume red and processed meats in moderation because even two servings or more a week are associated with an increased risk of heart disease and mortality," said study senior author Norrina Allen, director of the Institute for Public Health and Medicine at Northwestern University in Chicago."


"Sizzling steaks and juicy burgers are staples in many people’s diets. But research has shown that regularly eating red meat and processed meat can raise the risk of type 2 diabetes, coronary heart disease, stroke and certain cancers, especially colorectal cancer.

"A well-known study by the Harvard School of Public Health looked at the health effects of regular meat intake and found links to heart disease and cancer.

"One daily serving of unprocessed red meat — about the size of a deck of cards — was associated with a 13% increased risk of death from cardiovascular disease or cancer.
" One daily serving of processed red meat — one hot dog or two slices of bacon — was associated with a 20% increased risk of death from cardiovascular disease or cancer."


"Considerable evidence from long-term prospective cohort studies has demonstrated that diets high in red and processed meats are associated with increased risk of type 2 diabetes (T2D), cardiovascular disease (CVD), cancer (particularly colorectal cancer), and all-cause mortality (4–6). Similarly, such evidence along with the evidence from short-term intervention trials strongly suggests that replacing red and processed meats with plant-based protein sources (including legumes and nuts), poultry, and seafood has the potential to reduce risk of chronic diseases and premature death (7–10,11)."
American Diabetes Association


Meatless meals are built around beans, lentils, vegetables and whole grains. These plant-based proteins tend to be less expensive and offer more health benefits than meat.

"A plant-based diet, which emphasizes fruits, vegetables, grains, beans, legumes and nuts, is rich in fiber, vitamins and other nutrients. And people who don't eat meat — vegetarians — generally eat fewer calories and less fat, weigh less, and have a lower risk of heart disease than nonvegetarians do."

" Even reducing meat intake has a protective effect. Research shows that people who eat red meat are at an increased risk of death from heart disease, stroke or diabetes. Processed meats also increase the risk of death from these diseases. And what you don't eat can also harm your health. Diets low in nuts, seeds, seafood, fruits and vegetables also increase the risk of death."

Mayo Clinic

" NutritionFacts.org NutritionFacts.org

"To see what effect an increase in meat consumption might have on disease rates, researchers studied lapsed vegetarians. People who once ate vegetarian diets but then started to eat meat at least once a week were reported to have experienced a 146 percent increase in odds of heart disease, a 152 percent increase in stroke, a 166 percent increase in diabetes, and a 231 percent increase in odds for weight gain. During the 12 years after the transition from vegetarian to omnivore, meat-eating was associated with a 3.6 year decrease in life expectancy.

"Results published in 2012 from two major Harvard University studies—the Nurses’ Health Study, which followed the diets of about 120,000 30- to 55-year-old women starting in 1976, and the Health Professionals Follow-Up Study, which followed about 50,000 men aged 40 to 75—found that the consumption of both processed and unprocessed red meat appeared to be associated with an increased risk of dying from cancer and heart disease, as well as shortened life spans overall—a conclusion reached even after controlling for age, weight, alcohol consumption, exercise, smoking, family history, caloric intake, and even the intake of whole plant foods, such as whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. The findings suggest there may be something harmful in the meat itself.

"The largest study of diet and health was co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health and the American Association of Retired Persons. Over a decade, researchers followed about 545,000 men and women aged 50 to 71 and came to the same conclusion as the Harvard researchers: Meat consumption was associated with increased risk of dying from cancer, dying from heart disease, and dying prematurely in general. Again, this was after controlling for other diet and lifestyle factors.

"Alzheimer’s disease risk may also be affected by meat consumption. In Japan, the prevalence of Alzheimer’s has shot up over the past few decades, thought to be due to the shift from a traditional rice-and-vegetable-based diet to one featuring triple the dairy and six times the meat. The lowest validated rates of Alzheimer’s disease in the world are found in rural India, where people tend to eat plant-based diets centered on grains and vegetables. In the United States, those who don’t eat meat (including poultry and fish) appear to cut their risk of developing dementia in half, and the longer meat is avoided, the lower dementia risk appears to fall."


Cambridge University article on benefits of vegetarian diet.


Vegetarian diet reduces diabetes risk article review of several studies

Review of 86 research studies supporting vegetarian diet lowers incidence of heart attacks, diabetes and some forms of cancer.


@ Tendzin

It is said that in changing diet from meat eating to vegetarian or vegan, is not suitable for all bodies.
It is also said that children born from vegtarian/vegan parents, second, third generation in the west can suffer negative consequences.

But for spiritual schools, being vegetarian or vegan has nothing to do with health. If a teacher is asked, why one is supposed to abstain from animal food, the answer generaly will be in the line of "karma".

Many spiritual schools and religions have regulations related to the consumption of meat, based on commands of god. Personally I believe these regulations are born from necessities where they live and for some people, may be most, only manipulating their fear [for a god etc] helps to take an advice at heart.

But what we eat defenitly effects the chemical / electrical function of the body/brain
In older Yoga literature and certainly in Tibetan Buddhist lore, one can find that certain foods are to be used or strictly to be abstained from, relate to the heat in the body and the raising of kundalini.

Many decades ago, not being a Buddhist, an very high ranking Lama, was invited to conduct a very rare initiation ritual, only few can and are allowed to give and I was asked to cook for the lama, so that all could participate, also the sevadars in the kitchen. To my utter surprise, the lama ate meat, even much meat. Hahaha ..good memories return.

Meditation is manipulation of the body, consumption of any food, effects the body and the mind. The founders of spiritual schools all over the world , without consulting one another, have come up with the regulation of food intake, both what and how much, when.

Old mystery schools in Greece, Egypt, and many tribal rituals, use prolonged fasting, sleep deprivation and sense deprivation, as part of their technique to open the door to the other world.

Often I say to people that question me or have problems with this issue ... do you realiy thing there is a god that cares what you eat, drink or what you do?! ... I don't thing so. Then they argue that it makes no difference. My answer is, yes it makes a difference as those before you have found that certain behavior is conductive to better results and other not. It is that simple, so by all means have your meat, drink and sexual pleasures... there is no god that cares but if you want to follow this or that tradition you better follow their advices, found to be working, in many generations before you.

It is not an advice for you Tendzin!
You did not ask.

Hi Spence - Ah, I see you've brought guns and rocket launchers to a pissing contest? :)

Hi Um - all very nice, but to extend our recent discussion, it is most notable the words compassion, love and suffering are completely absent from all your rationalising above! For you, the motivational impulse for the connection between vegetarianism or veganism and spirituality is PURELY a self-serving, selfish, purity related technology issue. Wah! This is what happens when you follow worldly religions :) This is, quite literally, putting the cart before the horse, and then being surprised you're not getting anywhere. But hey, fake it till you make it my friends, fake it till you make it.....;)

I would suggest to put down the religious texts (which means anything which has "RSSB" on the spine :), and try and encounter these past mystics in their own reality, own time, not through the lens of selfish and self-serving religious aspirations. What you are saying is the very purpose of vegetarianism, which is itself only one part of the "ahimsa" principle in eastern philosophies, let's not forget, is PRECISELY the kind of selfish and self-serving, ego-centric, hypocritical motivations in the yogas and dietary rules which gurus like Nanak and Kabir ridiculed. This subtlety is lost because we have encountered the minds of great mystics like Nanak and Kabir through the lens of self-centred, hyper-egoic, elitist religions.

Forget spiritual technology and meditative absorption, I think that eating meat or not is more or less irrelevant in that regards. These kind of parlour tricks have nothing to do with love and compassion, and can be achieved whether you eat meat or not. This is simple fact. Imo the real mystics avoid eating meat - to whatever degree that is possible and plausible, within their own geo-cultural and personal health context - simply because they feel deep love and connection to all life. That said, they are also aware this earth has been created in such a way that life must subsist on other life (even plants, as we are increasingly learning from cutting edge science have "feelings") - so there are no hard and fast rules (like certain religions claim, making you take "vows", which don't care if you live on a farm in India, in a mega-city in the West, or a remote Amazonian tribe - but you better live on a farm in India, because that's where these teachings are being parroted from to this very day, with no change at all for the current times or globally inter-connected world). In other words, there are "mystics" in the Amazonian rainforest - far, far greater and more authentic than any RS guru who has ever lived, almost certainly - who hunt and eat meat.......because they have no choice. But they do it with respect, reverence and gratitude for the circle of life, and death, and the deep inter-connection between all living beings.

Dogma gives you hard and fast rules and "vows", mystical awareness gives you wisdom and the flexibility to adapt to reality, whatever it may be, with compassion, wisdom, skill etc - and never the twain shall meet.

All this said, for those of us in the West, and indeed India, with just the slightest amount of thought and effort, can lead a vegan lifestyle and be extremely fit and healthy, way above the "average" in western nations - this is of course, simply just a fact (and Spence it seems has provided numerous studies to this effect). I know this, you know this, surely only a completely ignorant person would argue otherwise?

I have read numerous personal testimonies from people who said their health improved almost magically by taking up an almost exclusively carnivorous paleo or keto diet where they had various benefits to health, mood, skin conditions etc. I absolutely believe them 100%. The truth is though, you will hear almost identical testimonies from people who quit eating meat and become vegan and eat a balanced diet with a few supplementations......it is obvious that, often, the mere act of paying attention to and having SOME form of controlled diet, any diet, can result in these individual experiences. That said, whilst being a veggie from the age of 13 to 39ish I would say I would be in the top 5%-15% of fitness levels in society EASILY, having become vegan at the age of 39ish, the improvements in my health and fitness (which, btw, is objectively measurable as I've been going to the gym since I was 16) have been remarkable, and I would now say, for my age-group, I'm probably in the top 1-5%. So that is how far scare stories about vegetarianism, or veganism, go with me; absolutely nonsense, at least in my case. However I do not presume everyone else has either the same biology or resources as me, so realise I can only speak for myself.

All that aside, when I decided to become vegan some 4 years ago (?), due to the kind of nonsense culture tells us about needing meat or dairy, I fully anticipated there to be some kind of decline in my fitness levels, with perhaps a few other "negative" consequences. The wonderful and long lasting benefits have merely been a pleasant surprise. I literally feel fitter and healthier at 43 than I did at any other time of my life.

Compassion is it's own reward, but the universe will throw in a few worldly goodies just for, well, just because the universe is bountiful.....:)

(also available on Netflix)

Ahh, Tendzin, Tendzin, Tendzin - what selfish, self-serving, identity-based entitled and privileged lies and delusions are you serving up now?

First of all - I presume you are YN from RSS? What happened to you, dude? Old age? I'm being serious my friend, I'm genuinely curious? Did I read recently you've gone back to Christianity as your faith of choice? That's actually an interesting topic, but won't catch on in this maelstrom of identity-based anger, fear and loathing you seem completely wrapped up in since Trump washed your brain with MAGA-juice; why, my friend, why? Is it worth it? (If you are not YN, please ignore the below and my apologies - well, for some of the comments :)

So which absurdism, delusion or lie is it today, my friend?

Is it the absurdism that, despite the vast majority of the world's scientists, especially the good ones, a great many "mystics", and our very own eyes showing us the effects of human-influenced global warming, that you find the arguments of a cartoon artist which deny or question the importance or even reality of human influenced climate change to be the most compelling, valid and important perspective on the non-problem? That we really should stop fretting about it, it will sort itself out. Probably. (lucky the stakes are not high!)

Or perhaps this time it the delusion and lie that black americans are not brutalised and oppressed by the legal system, and that all this complaining by black folks is just some big lie they've concocted. Even using such juvenile and absurd arguments like "well, 2 of those police officers who brutally murdered that innocent black man were black and hispanic, how can that be racism?", and argument akin in it's lack of intelligence and coherency to saying the British never brutalised anyone in India, because they got the armies, made up of native Indians, to do it for them. Oh dear, look what the "rational" mind can cook up just to justify it's own fears and inhumanities.

Or perhaps this time it is the lie and delusion that Trump is a really great President who has restored the USA to it's former glory in the eyes of the world, like that article you posted on the RSS forum, at a time when the entire rest of the world was embarrassed, concerned and aghast that Americans had voted in this absurdity of a leader!?

Or perhaps it is the lie and delusion that whilst Islam is inherently a violent and oppressive religion, that Christianity is all joy and light and positivity. Honestly, please try reading something about the history of both of these religions, at least once in your life :) There is a level of absurdity in this lie that is beyond the ken of mere mortals, so delusional and disconnected from consensual human reality as it is.

Or perhaps it is that wearing masks for a while to help eradicate a very dangerous virus is the greatest violation of human rights in the entire history of mankind (of course, being shot in your own home just for being black is just whinging, isn't it?), an issue over which to cause civil war and insurrection - what a hill to die on, my friend, what a hill.....wearing a face mask in public! On the other hand, eastern countries have very well managed this and previous viral crises by quietly and intelligently just following these guidelines. Here in the UK, due to mass vaccination and strict use of masks in public spaces, we no longer have to wear them, and people are now attending sporting events, clubs, restaurants etc without them. We learnt from the Chinese, Japanese and other countries that know how to WORK TOGETHER, because together they're stronger. Meanwhile, back in the US, entitled and privileged old white men who've never encountered any real oppression in their life are raising arms to go to war.......over wearing a face mask in public for a few months or years! This is very literally your own anger, hate and division, eating you up from the inside out.

Ah, no, this time it is the lie that being veggie or vegan is factually and absolutely dangerous for you. Just look at India and China! Meanwhile, probably the biggest consumer of meat on the planet, USA, also happens to be - factually speaking - the 1st or 2nd most obese country on the planet (not including tiny island-state countries, I believe). The death toll in USA per capita has been far higher than that of China or India. And the ONLY actual research that I am aware of into the connection between veggie, vegan and meat diets and COVID severity is this artivcle which suggests a 70% less likely chance to get serious effects if you are vegan as opposed to meat eater:


Perhaps the planet earth is trying to tell us something? You know, like Gurinder's "out of left field" theory that connects environmental destruction with this crisis? I'm going to give you a hint, believe it or not I assure you it is accurate; you are completely unable to read nature. Perhaps Gurinder is, I don't know. But you certainly aren't. You don't even know what you don't know.

Anyway, I immensely look forward to your next identity-based, selfish, serving delusional lie - they bring forth great amusement, if also sadness.

Speaking of sadness, have you ever asked yourself - what has this way of living and thinking brought you in life? Because that, ultimately, is all that matters. We are playing a game, but most people are playing it very, very badly.

All the best,


I think there’s three or four distinct reasons why one might choose to be vegetarian.

(1) The first is simple taste, preference. That’s a purely subjective take, and no one’s business but one’s own.

(2) The second would be health. Spence has presented some excellent arguments and links why a vegetarian diet might be more healthy. You, Tendzin, seem not to be engaging with them at all, and concentrating only on the acoustics within your own personal echo chamber. (On the other hand, I suppose you might level that same charge on Spence. The fact is you’ve both presented research that seems to speak to your particular conclusion, but you keep focusing only on such research as bolster your own conclusions, while ignoring what the other is saying.)

It seems there’s a great deal to be said to be said on either side of the argument. I’m not sure, myself, which side wins out here, as far as the health thing.

(3) The third would be ethics. Empathy, basically. It seems kind of …I don’t know, sociopathic? unethical? to kill and actually eat other creatures that can feel most of the things we ourselves feel, just because their flesh tickles our palate, and even if their flesh helps keep us in good health. It seems somehow, well, wrong, brutal, brutish. (But of course, ethics are subjective, not universal. So that I don’t think I can actually say that such and such is necessarily unethical, only that the ethics of the issue might bear consideration and discussion.)

(4) Finally, religion and spirituality and faith. Superstition and hocus pocus, and/or bona fide spiritual reasons that have to do with efficacy as far as spiritual techniques (assuming the latter even are a thing).


Me, I find the notion of ingesting the body of a …I don’t know, a cow, or a pig, or a chicken, or something like that, absolutely abhorrent. I don’t think I’d consider doing that even if it were established without doubt that eating flesh is good for us humans. (On the other hand, would my resolve and my preference hold if there were some kind of life-and-death situation that I were faced with? I think they would, but not having been tested to that level I couldn’t really say.)

@ Spencer

All the studies you've provided are old and flawed. There is no risk whatever to a diet that's low in carbs and high in meat. If there were, we'd have seen high rates of heart disease and cancer in Eskimos and Plains Indians, societies that lived almost exclusively on meat for thousands of years.

That one site's claim that India leads the world in low dementia risk is absurd. Actually, Africa leads the list, hardly a country that's pro vegetarianism. Japan is also doing well in that area, and the claim that it's slipping because more people are eating meat and dairy is the same vegetarian propaganda I've been reading for the past 40 years. People across the world are getting sick because of vegetarian foods such as vegetable oils and grains.

By the way, it sure seems like Sawan Singh was a victim of dementia in his last years. So much for the Indian diet preventing Alzheimers.

I've also lived in vegan communities and have seen firsthand what just one generation of a high-quality vegan diet does to children's physical development. The results are shocking and have been confirmed by science - - children do not thrive on a vegan diet. If a "pure" vegetarian diet, even a well-planned one, can't provide assimilable nutrients for children to thrive mentally and grow up to a normal height, have healthy bone density and strength, then it follows that this is not the optimal diet for humans.

The vegetarian story is a myth. The vegan story is a worse myth. Eating this way will always eventually lead to health problems, and raising children on a vegan diet is child abuse (as if we didn't have enough of that with today's mania for kiddie masking) There's a distinct lack of protein and B12, essential minerals and assimilable vitamins in a vegetarian diet. The proof of the pudding is how few non-meat success stories there are. Very few athletes are able to compete without eating meat.

As far as the moral argument, thousands more sentient beings are killed in agricultural farming. If you are a vegetarian, you are getting your "pure" food via the death of animals, no way around that fact.

As far as the "natural" argument for a veg diet, consider that there's no known vegan civilization that has ever existed on earth. Our ancestors existed as meat-eaters for many thousands of years before agriculture was begun. The advent of agriculture did not change who we are -- we are built to be meat-eaters and nothing can change that, not even Impossible Burgers. Trying to live on a veg diet is like trying to run your car on kerosene. This is why, time and again, people who valiantly stuck to a veg diet for decades and suffered found that their health problems magically began going away the day they ate a steak.

More sustainable farming is the solution to the world's dietary health problems, not the outlawing of meat.

Finally, let me note another passage from Quest for Light, where Charan SIngh responds to a satsangis complaint that the veg diet is causing him extreme gas. Health tip: a low carb carnivore diet results in zero gas, while the "natural" veg diet...well, you all know.

Just one example out of thousands of how a vegetarian and vegan diet did not work, and how eating meat completely turns a person's health around for the better.


@ Tendzin

>>As far as the "natural" argument for a veg diet, consider that there's no known vegan civilization that has ever existed on earth.<<

Hahahaha ... humans lack all the tools predators have to catch and digest their daily food.

Study the Inuit eating habits, They live exclusively on what the sea has to offer. They do eat raw flesh. BUT ... eating raw flesh needs certain knowledge, as a butcher and also certain tools. The hands are not strong enough to get the skin of the body, to break the muscle structure, to chew it and finally to digest it That the inuit can do these thins is because they developed the tools that were needed to eat flesh without fire, without cooking.

What, Tendzin is cooking, ask yourself.

Cooking is an invention of humans to give food that otherwise is unpalatable, undigestible and even poisonous in some cases, the structure of what ... fruits ... fruits Tendzin as our ancestors did not know the use of fire, like no animal does as there was no need to. They also on their own were not able to catch an animal as they had no tools no strategy to hunt ... but ... tendzin .... they still had to eat

So they could eat only things that were ready available in their world using their hands

well read Genisis and you will understand that our ancestors were gatherers.

AQs they were forced out of their original habitat due to changes of climate or just curiosity god knows they had to find means to adapt to harsher environments. That is how they also became to develop their huge brains.

Why ... they are the only species that can re-create their original habitat wherever they want to go and survive,...and later that brain is used to create ...yes, yes .. CULTURE

and even gods.


Yes, our ancestors ate meat raw, and we can also do the same.

Sorry, but I don't see Genesis as a reliable historical source on what foods to eat. We simply can't live the Genesis way. Imagine you're surrounded by acres of agricultural crops, fruit trees, vines, etc, and a huge team of farmers is somehow keeping it all going 12 months of the year. You'd starve to death if you were expected to forage for these crops the way a deer forages for its food, and that's because you're not built like a deer, a hippo, a rabbit or other herbivore.

When you drive down the road and see a crop of lettuce, you don't stare out you window and say "Oh boy, that's lettuce looks delicious!" Your mouth does not water. But then there's the aroma from that steakhouse and the juices start flowing. Why? Because your body knows what's actually good for it.

Shocklingly, the real propaganda hasn't been from the meat industry, it's been from those who've told us that we need to eat our vegetables. We do not need vegetables to live; in fact, many vegetables are toxic to us.

The overarching theme of this blog is that science should guide us. Well, science tells us that our ancestors were not vegetarians and therefore vegetarianism is not the natural diet for humans. I'd argue that science also tell us that vegetarianism has significant drawbacks and that we're currently seeing in the worldwide epidemic of diseases like fatty liver disease and type 2 diabetes -- these are not diseases caused by meat, but by vegetable foods.

@ Tendzin

>> Yes, our ancestors ate meat raw, and we can also do the same.<<

Hahahaha ... if you take yourself serious thry to catch a fish by hand and a walking bird like there are dugs .... use only you hands..

Having done that come back here .... hahahaha ... you are funny.

Walk your talk and prove it to yourself.

And for you information ... my brother and I were born vegetarians in a time the word was not even known to us. Our parents, peace be upon their souls, we great care helpt us little by little to over come that resistance and at the age of 18 we were that fare that we were able to eat meatballs or meat that had stowed so long that all semblance with meat was gone. There after it took many many years before we were able to eat even an medium rare steak. We would eat very little meat, very little we only used the sauce that was made with it ... and ....Tendzin both my brother and I were very very strong ... hahahaha.

Just eat meat if you like .. nobody cares.
No need to prove it to yourself and/or others.

You see Tendzin, even being born that way I could not care seen a rabbit or chicken be cilled on the farm of our ants.

You have still a long way to go.

"As far as the moral argument, thousands more sentient beings are killed in agricultural farming. If you are a vegetarian, you are getting your "pure" food via the death of animals, no way around that fact."

..........Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that you're right, that's still no more than textbook whataboutism, Tendzin. An attempt at obfuscation, perhaps aimed at oneself first and foremost.

If a great many sentient beings are being killed in agricultural farming, and if that concerns you, then the answer is to do something about it. The answer cannot possibly be to indulge in some other activity that also kills sentient beings but in lesser numbers. The former in no way is an argument in support of the latter.


What I wrote about the mortality of ag farming is hardly "whataboutism." I'm just pointing out the fact that we have to kill to survive, and that includes the vegetarians.

Everything in the universe kills other beings to survive. Also, every sentient being in the universe dies.

Cows die, pigs die, chickens die. We humans depend on these creatures for our food.

As far as caring for these animals goes, life is very good for many farm animals that are raised for human consumption. It's true that there are some factory farms that mistreat animals, and these facilities should be done away with. But the mistreatment of animals is not a necessity. In the well-run farms, animals have a far better standard of living than they would in the wild.

The bottom line is that we need these animals to live, ie we need to eat them to live. Our children need to eat them to grow in a healthy way. The "researchers" who say we can live on a vegan diet or on Impossible goo burgers are wrong in their conclusions.

So much is backwards in this world. We react to climate change not by adapting to it but by buying electric cars, we react to animal welfare not by reforming animals farms but by eating goo burgers, we react to ancient history not by education but by pulling down statues, we react to a virus not losing weight and getting a shot but by freaking out about everyone who didn't get a shot.


Um, all humans are technological beings, that is, we all depend on some form of technology (even a sharpened stick) to survive. And so at some point in the very distant past, our ancestors brains developed so that they could go beyond eating bugs and small rodents and begin hunting.

By the same token, again: there is no record of a vegan civilization on this planet. The idea that our natural diet was some kind of Edenic banquet of fresh fruits and vegetables is just a myth, one that I believe for many years.

Hi Tendzin
You wrote
"All the studies you've provided are old and flawed."

They are all current. And the current positions of Mayo Clinic, Harvard and Oxford University and the American Diabetic Association.

So much for facts.

"It is the hallmark of every adult to give up a favorite opinion when facts prove otherwise."

@ Tendzin

In a moving and changeable world, there is always "something before".
There were time there were no books, no science, no tools, no inventions and jet they had to eat

Just ask yourself, what could YOU eat in such an situation?

The answer is simple, look at the animals, what we biological also are, they eat what is available and what they can get using the tools they have. We just do not have the tools that predators, in the waters, on land and in the air have.

Fruits, nuts, seeds and indeed a rodent here and there but Tendzin that is hardly filling ... hahaha.

So Tendsin BY NATURE we are no predators and BY CULTURE we recreat that original situation by handling food we cannot eat in such an way that it receives the consistency of fruit... fruits do not need any preparation on our side, no kitchen, no tools nothing.

But please do eat whatever you want. You need not to convince me of anything,

I’m creating a new blog called ‘What I Learned Today.’ (I’ll post the link later)

Timely topic number 1: Vexed

I am vexed and at the ragery (new word) that surrounds the issue of vaccination. We’re talking about a life saving vaccine to protect us against a global pandemic—a plague.

You can choose to save yourself and protect those around you… or not. We always have a choice. I choose life (Train Spotting reference). More importantly I choose to make decisions based on all the facts at hand. And based on those facts, I chose to get vaccinated.

For all the anti-vaxxers—

One thing I can tell you is that scientists are currently creating a virus-like vaccine. This vaccine will be transmitted from person to person just like a common cold or flu. Very cool biotech. 😎 (That might fall into the category of being a conspiracy but it’s not a theory—it’s a fact).

So there. Problem solved. Sort of.

The problem of variants continues and is the primary source of concern today. Due to large numbers of people refusing to get vaccinated, more extreme measures have to be taken. Willful ignorance is the most deadly part of the pandemic now.

Everyone will eventually get “vaccinated” the question is, how many people are you going to let die before you get vaccinated?

Honestly, people should be waaaay more concerned about the tap water they drink and bathe in every day than the Covid vaccine.

@ Sonia



OMG 😳 why?

There is so much information available about the quality of water around the world. It’s hard to know where to begin…

Here are a few articles:

https://water.org/our-impact/where-we-work/india/ (In all fairness, I hear that the water at RSSB facilities are some of the cleanest and safest in India.)





@ Sonia

Until now there has been no reason as all sorts of consumers programs in this country every couple of months come with an episode on water, where they have all sorts of bottle mineral water tested in comparison with tap water. Each time the conclusion and advice is do not waste your money on bottles water from the supermarket and do not have yourself manipulated by advertisements that sell you expensive water filtering systems.


This is wat our governmental research institute has to say on the matter.

But ... in france, most people drink only bottled water and use tap water for other purposes.


I don’t think bottled water is the answer either. It’s terribly destructive to the environment. (Unless you live in Flint Michigan, in which case drink all the bottled water you want.)

I was just trying to put it in perspective—people are so worried about a few small shots, yet don’t even bother to question the quality of water coming out of their tap… water which is provided by municipal water systems.

Anti-vaxxers are like, “we trust the government to pave the roads, police the streets, provide us with drinkable water, power our homes with electricity, provide schools for our children, build hospitals and send us social security checks each month, but save us from a plague? Oh no, all trust stops there.”

I don’t get it.

@ Sonia.

Thank you, now I get it what you pointed at.

You are right.

I do not get their thinking either.

I wish you all more mental clarity, less frustration and anger, and more peace. Reading evidentiary-based science (to strengthen your logic and discernment) and spiritual books, especially by a variety of mystics (to learn about duality and what a reality beyond it looks like), while spending time alone and in nature (where answers to many of life’s mysteries can be found) will help calm you and right your ships. Practicing mindfulness and/or meditation, if you have a mind for this, would also be helpful to support and strengthen the effectiveness of the afore-mentioned. Be gentle on yourself and others. We are all just doing the best given where we are currently at.

"I strongly support Covid vaccine mandates"

You'll never get over your cult beliefs and desire to see humans crushed by authority figures, be they gurus or governments. For someone who uses the word science ever 4 words and brags about empathy and a lack of hypocrisy, you sure know nothing about those things.

"The problem of variants continues and is the primary source of concern today. Due to large numbers of people refusing to get vaccinated, more extreme measures have to be taken. Willful ignorance is the most deadly part of the pandemic now."

Looks like Sonia is still not very bright or informed either. Nice to see things never change around here.

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