It took a while for this person to give up on RSSB

Yesterday I got this message from someone who said it would be fine to share what they said, but not their name. I always feel good when I hear that someone has benefitted from my blog posts.

I've told this person that I don't know what has happened to tAo. His comments were indeed interesting. But change is inevitable, including who comments on this blog. 

Hello Brain , how u doing n hope u r doing great at ur end. I am ________, initiated by Baba Gurinder Singh G in 2003. I am 45 years old now. I born and brought up in Orthodox Rssb family , my great grand father initiated by baba sawan singh g in year 1922 , my grand father spent 26 years in sewa at dera after getting retirement from punjab police as an officer , he was dera resident and died in dera .

I have been reading ur blogs on site church for churchless since year 2010 . I didn't like ur views at first . But after a year or more I found some reality in ur writings . I read all of ur rssb blogs twice or may be thrice with all comments on that .

I gave up my faith on baba g and rssb in year 2019 with very heavy heart , I had my own reason's for living the rssb faith with no hard feeling's. Actually I never had a pure faith or belief on rssb I was just keep going with it as told by my family and being told or preach by in weekly satsangs . I am very emotional person and feel guilty deep inside me for living the path , my heart says guru is true but my brain says Big No . 

I like ur blogs . I enjoy to read the comments also specially by tAo , Spence , osho , Tuscon , jesse , Jen etc. 

I missing tAo , why is he not commenting any more ,is he okay ? He is much experienced person regarding cult , I would love to hear about him from you , that's the reason also I'm mailing you. 

 

I like ur blog , please keep going , my best wishes always with you.

 

Regards , ___________

Comments

[Non Credo]

RSSB certainly has a cultural foothold in India that will probably propel it into future generations. The reasons for this are many. Why a religion or guru achieves megastar popularity while others fall by the wayside is often hard to discern. Why one person has ardent faith in a guru is also hard to figure. From the 1800s we've seen RSSB continue to grow; from a strict sociological perspective that can only mean that RSSB is providing something that the secular culture or other religious traditions aren't providing.

RSSB also has a cultural foothold in other countries besides India, but let's be real, the vast majority of satsangis at these worldwide centers are of Indian heritage. Despite the slight flicker during the hippie era, doesn't seem to be any sign of a genuine interest in Sant Mat from people in the West. I'm guessing there never will be, as (here's where I'm going with this), when people generally get religion it's the religious tradition of their own cultural heritage. This is why is the West, people who become interested in religion generally turn to Christianity, or perhaps Judaism if they have Jewish heritage.

Yes, some will turn to Hinduism-related religions, and some will really get into Buddhism. But these religions aren't popular in the West because they're not in synch with Western culture. You could say these religions aren't culturally sustainable for Westerners. And as some of us surmised, our participation in Eastern religion might have been at least partly a symptom of our lack of synch with our native culture. It might even point to psychological issues -- forgive me, but in my view this is often true of Westerners who convert to Islam.

Long ago it was predicted that Theosophy would be the next great religion of the West. Seemed to make sense, as Theosophy was a kind of enlightened amalgam of world religions. But it came to pass that against all odds the Mormon religion took permanent root in the West. And that was largely because Mormonism fits with Western culture.

But getting back to RSSB, it seems to me that its enduring popularity and unceasing growth in India has to do with Indian culture. There is something deep within the thousands of generations of the Indian people that's more receptive to a Gurinder than can be found in the chakras of Westerers. This is apparent to me when watching Gurinder's Q & A sessions. From a skeptical Western perspective it's hard to understand why anyone takes him (as Godman) seriously, yet it's clear that millions do. Or at least they do within the cognitive petri dish of a culture that accepts the boilerplate of RS theology.

[Sirika]

Thank you Brian for sharing these messages. Reading about others’ experiences that are similar to mine is uplifting.

[Osho Robbins]

“ Why one person has ardent faith in a guru is also hard to figure. From the 1800s we've seen RSSB continue to grow; from a strict sociological perspective that can only mean that RSSB is providing something that the secular culture or other religious traditions aren't providing.”. - Non Credo

Traditional RSSB teachings from Swami Ji onwards state that the guru will come at the time of death and take personal charge of the soul’s onward journey.
This is something unique and invaluable because we are all helpless in the face of death. RSSB gives hope to the disciple, which is likely one of the major benefits of following this teaching.

[neon]

The only thing the QnA videos with GSD show are how gullible and illiterate the sangat is. None of them meditate. Every question is the same. Every answer regurgitated. They end with "take care of my family!!!" when the entire purpose is to release yourself from them.

It's pathetic really, I wonder how a non-satsangi will react to these QnA. Its not even god worship anymore, its putting a man on a pedestal and thinking he can never do wrong...

[Appreciative Reader]

"I missing tAo , why is he not commenting any more ,is he okay ? He is much experienced person regarding cult"

.......That's right. He's "much experienced regarding cult", all right. All of this was well before my time, but I've read most of it, and, while he was prolific in his (astute and justified) criticism of the RSSB cult (criticism that I'd found myself applauding, mostly, even if if was a tad too strident for my own taste, but still), he turned out to harbor cultic irrationalities of his own, that, when they were revealed, Brian called out squarely, whereupon guy flared up and flounced away. It's a mote-beam-eye thing.

[Sonia]

RSSB isn’t that unique. It really isn’t. It’s just that most of us on this blog have limited experiences with the host of religions and cults out there.

There’s support group for ex-ers of practically all the religious, spiritual, “self-help” groups and cults out there. It always goes the same—people shared a bad experience with a certain church or group that they put their complete trust in and it let them down… even caused harm to some. The support group helps them work through the feeling of being lied to or betrayed or harmed in some way.

There’s nothing unique about RSSB. This story is as old as time.

And, RSSB certainly is not growing at a faster rate than any of the new fad spiritual organizations. Fads grow quickly. Some turn into world religions some don’t. Either way, it’s not terribly unique.

[Sonia]

For example, the Catholic Church. I have had Catholic friends and colleagues all my life. Some leave the Catholic Church and feel embittered towards it. I was raised Protestant and have always thought of Catholicism as just another Christian faith. But I honestly don’t know much about the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism.

All the fighting in history between devotees of those two religions seemed bizarre to me because I always saw those religions as being very similar in the sense that they’re both Christian.

And I couldn’t even begin to tell you who or what the Pope is… I never knew and didn’t care. Still not interested. But to some people, leaving Catholicism is extremely traumatic so they turn to support groups.

The same for other Christian faiths and every religious-type org in general. The same for self-help groups. Some people feel robbed by certain self-help groups—groups that they put their complete trust in, only to find themselves a little (or a lot) poorer in the end.

Devotion to a particular person, organization or thought system always comes with the risk of disappointment.

************
I guess my point is, we should probably look at ourselves first and ask ourselves why we willingly gave so much power to certain groups or people in the first place.

What was missing in us that turned us into blind believers?

What caused us to temporarily suspend our powers of discrimination?

The nature of a devotee, regardless of what one is devoted to, is the ability to suspend one’s power of discrimination.

Not everyone has the mindset of a devotee. It’s a special kind of psychological make-up. A “devotee” is looking for someone else to fix them. A devotee wants to belong, which isn’t a bad thing necessarily, but a devotee makes the mistake of “belonging” by drawing lines between people.

A “devotee” doesn’t realize that everyone, regardless of faith, race, nationality, age or gender, is a little bit right and a little bit wrong. We’re humans.

No one has all the answers. None of us here have all the answers. None of us here know everything.

The Religious Community doesn’t know everything.

The Scientific Community doesn’t know everything.

If we believe we were 100% right about everything, then we’re implying we’re all-knowing. And we’re not. We should wake up each day willing to grow, learn something new and acquire deeper understanding of what it really means to be human.

We’re always learning and growing. Therefore we’re always changing. Change is the only constant in life.

[Sonia]

We should be devoted to principles, not people. And the principles we choose should help us be more loving people.

[Spence Tepper]

Pick the symbols you find within yourself, the ones that resonate, and follow your bliss there.

All roads lead to Rome. One light, many windows.

A shoe that doesn't fit isn't wrong. Keep a lookout for a better shoe. Or try building your own... Only to find it was already in you waiting.

[😂 77 🤪]

But I honestly don’t know much about the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism.

Catholics believe that the faith is still living
and was attained including perfection
by Saints

Saints are a horror in Protestants eyes

It seems to be a general edge / difference all over
Also RSSAGRA coujld be called the protestants

Also Sunni Muslims vs Shi-ite muslims
For instance RUMI is a horror in Sunni eyes

Perhaps Hindus an Buddist - I know not enough
But Shankara seems a protestant to me
The Dalai Lama a Catholic

It might be deeper
We are God vs We are slaves

77

Do no harm is my rule Everything as opposed to Nothing

[Reality Check]

The blind follow the blind and both fall in the ditch.
RSSB teachings appeal to people who seek hope. Just follow the guru and you will be saved. Hence people spend years doing free seva in the hope that they will get extra points after death.
Once you buy into the teachings, you cannot leave because you believe them and you think meditation and seva is the only way out.
A reality check will show you how absurd this is. How can a flawed man save you, and from what?
Do you even need saving?

[albert]

There are those that deeply desire "escape" from this short existence...there are those that dance with the idea and like the thought...there are those who are hypnotized by the sense enjoyments and human existence and have no thought of escaping the tragedy of existence and reality of death.

A word comes to mind from the Eastern traditions: sanskaras - deeply embedded tendencies from the past that secretly guide the choices and decisions of a human being.

A person becomes a seeker because they believe deeply that they are inadequate and need help. This ingrained sense of deficiency, laced with embedded guilt and remorse about one's past actions, has its part to play in the choice to embrace a teacher. GSD is one such teacher. Many seem to resonate with him and they find some succor, some knowledge, some raison d'etre.

We must remember that one man's ambrosia is another man's poison. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. This acceptance requires an expanded viewpoint and, in my humble view, a great tolerance for the insanity manifesting in the Kali Yuga (this Iron Age).

Tending one's own garden is always the right choice methinks...leaving everything else alone.

[😂 77 🤪]

Quote of the Day
"All our friends and relations, wealth and possessions, honour and glory, are transient and fleeting. Neither the body nor anything else will accompany us when we leave this world. "
— Maharaj Charan Singh Ji —

Can we agree at least on this one?

[neon]

77 how can you be so sure that they will not accompany us when we die? Maybe they will. Both perspectives are uncertain.

[Uchit]

You don't know it, but you have been saved from a hell whole of infinite reincarnation cycle into the RSSB demonic trap. All you do in this CULT is so called seva (slavery) for this dirty path for a false promise of salvation only to find yourself in more dept and slavery on the other side.

Also ask your self why are most satsangis have a sad, depressed life with mental issues and a life full of misery more so than a average?. Why are only the very few select ones have a better life there ?

The worst thing is that GURINDER singh dhillon knows who he works for and his real purpose which is distraction and diversion even though he comes across as all loving guru on a stage -which is his cover story. Yet when you step out the box and look at how empty answers are in q and a and how desperate GSD has become with more YOUtube videos than anyone, and ofcourse how this bent baba had become a billionaire from making business and political connections and siphoning billions from his own blood nephew's. You easily realise that this is a FRAUDSTER, and a CROOK just like any other politician or tyrant.

PS to all his agents and supporters , and satantic/ lucafarians , even your days are numbered. Karma will be served on a plate.

[Osho Robbins]

Uchit, your view is unbalanced and quite ridiculous. Anyone can choose to believe or disbelieve. That is their choice.

I don’t get how you can say “more debt and slavery on the other side”

Are you sharing your opinion or a fact?

Who does GSD work for?

And what is he distracted from?

[Non Credo]

Quote of the Day
"All our friends and relations, wealth and possessions, honour and glory, are transient and fleeting. Neither the body nor anything else will accompany us when we leave this world. "
— Maharaj Charan Singh Ji —

Can we agree at least on this one?

@77: I guess I can agree with the general sentiments of the quote, but to me, it's one of those quotes that's less profound the more I think about it.

And did Charan live like he believed it? He was also quoted saying he looked forward to death so that he could be with Sawan Singh -- his blood relation -- for all eternity.

It's also apparent - to me anyway -- that Charan largely agreed to be the RSSB Master because of his family and their deep involvement in RSSB. As the story goes, Charan's own mother had to have a long talk with him explaining that he had no choice but to accept the gaddi. His mater also prevailed on him to wear the Sikh kara on his wrist all his life. Pretty much everything Charan did came from his desire to please his family. Also, his entire source of income from 1951 - 1990 came from his family. Probably no one reading this had such intimate and deep family ties as did Charan, and yet he and Gurinder are fond of telling satsangis that they shouldn't have family attachments as our family are "thugs."

To look at this quote in another way, just what are we supposed to look forward to after we die if we no longer have human connections? Light and sound? Light and sound are OK I guess, but if they're really so fulfilling wouldn't we be spending almost every waking hour in bhajan and dhyan? This points to one of the interesting things about religion, in that people work very hard to get to heaven but have no real concept of what heaven would actually be like. Or rather, if they would like heaven. It's an impossible question to answer of course, because how could anyone possibly know if they would enjoy an existence where they have no body or senses? The closest thing we humans have to that condition would be total paralysis, which we don't consider a rewarding freedom, but a terrible fate.

For that reason, I sympathize with these Q&A satsangis who plead with Gurinder to look out for their family. Their concern for their family may not be RS spiritual, but at least it's honest.

In connection with this topic, I mentioned the Mormons in my previous post. They believe that families are eternal, and that's what heaven is about, along with being a venue for continued spiritual growth. That's may sound like an implausible destiny, but it at least is one that people can really identify with. Again, I'm not sure if most religious people give much if any thought to whether they would enjoy being "soul" in a vast region of light.

[Sonia]

@Non Credo,

Very though provoking comment. For a moment I questioned whether I wanted to go to heaven or not. Settled on “yes”.

This dance with the ego is fun for a while. But like they say, it’s all fun and games till somebody gets hurt.

Have you ever done drugs? Like morphine after surgery. I’d like to think heaven is sort of like that but a thousand… a million times better. Just makes dying easier to accept IMO.

[Dungeness]

@ Non Credo: "Probably no one reading this had such intimate and deep family ties as did Charan, and yet he and Gurinder are fond of telling satsangis that they shouldn't have family attachments as our family are "thugs.""

No, I think emphasizing "thugs" subtly misses the point that
it's not family themselves who are thugs but our overpowering,
unhealthy attachments to those same people that is the problem.
When a family member dies, the attention of bereaved survivors
may linger for months or even years on the departed. Their grief,
while natural at first, quickly becomes debilitating and robs us of
our spiritual equanimity. Attachment becomes a thug.

@ Non Credo : "To look at this quote in another way, just what are we supposed to look forward to after we die if we no longer have human connections? Light and sound? Light and sound are OK I guess, but if they're really so fulfilling wouldn't we be spending almost every waking hour in bhajan and dhyan?...
It's an impossible question to answer of course, because how could anyone possibly know if they would enjoy an existence where they have no body or senses? The closest thing we humans have to that condition would be total paralysis, which we don't consider a rewarding freedom, but a terrible fate. "

It may be helpful to think of reaching "totality of consciousness" or God
before death. In that state all levels of life -here and beyond- would still
be known. You would transcend the physical level and lower levels is
all. You would not exist in some walled-off Nirvana-like condition in a
state of paralysis at all.

[Non Credo]

@: The question of heaven and who wants it:

Have you ever done drugs? Like morphine after surgery.......
You would transcend the physical level and lower levels is
all."

Drugs -- If heaven is like any kind of drug high (and yes, I know what that's like), then the question arises whether we can know if that experience is something we'd want for all eternity. Again, if the most wholesome experience of a consciousness drug high is bhajan/Dhyan/bhakti, then why is it a struggle for most satsangis to give even 10% of their waking lives to that high? If meditation were the true natural high, then the problem should be our inability to stop meditating all day long. But the situation is just the opposite, as we are at best what I call "Dinner Bell Mystics." We are fine with having these short experiences of meditation, but part of our mind always has an eye on this experience ending so we can resume being physical beings in a material world. We're OK meditating, but when the dinner bell of physical activity beckons, we're more than happy to leave the meditation cushion and "heaven."

We are physical beings, and that means we are limited to only knowing what pleases a physical being The idea that we are souls inside material bodies and can exist in eternal bliss with no bodies or minds, no movement, no dreams, no goals, no desires whatsoever, no other people to have relationships with...this is all just an idea we've been fed by religious authorities. Of course, it could be true that there is a heaven and that the experience of that heaven is totally and absolutely fulfilling..but how can we know that's so when we've never had the experience of disembodied bliss?

Some of you are saying "but I have had that experience in meditation." I would counter that you really haven't. What you had was a temporary experience that is as pleasurable and limited as all temporary experiences are. Whether sleep, sex, drugs, eating, talking, entertainment, working out, being with other people, being alone, working, relaxing....all human experiences are only enjoyable if kept to a temporary basis. NONE of these experiences, even meditation, would be considered enjoyable if we were confined to just one of them. They would be hell, really.

There's a story to illustrate this: Imagine it's WWII and a mother and daughter had been separated by an invading Army. They'd spent years apart, every day worrying about each other with the greatest human emotion. Finally, the day came when they were reunited. They met at a train station, and they ran together and met in a mad embrace of total joy and love! Years of pining for each other were finally brought to an end!

My question: how long could they stay embraced without tiring of the experience? A minute? Two minutes at best? Yes, they'd still love each other, but the ecstasy was very short-lived.

The same is true for even the most potent sensual/mental experiences that could be achieved through drugs. The high becomes a burden.

Spiritual traditions have never managed to explain to us how we can exist without minds and bodies, or even how we could possibly enjoy that experience. Most people have a kind of hazy faith that when we die it will all work out somehow and there will be a heaven of some kind and it will be great. But if there's any kind of argument for this I haven't come across it yet.

[Non Credo]

Addendum to the "Who wants heaven" question:

Ramana Maharshi said that the experience of non-dual consciousness was closely akin to the experience of deep sleep. We don't fear going to be each night and spending 8 hours in that consciousness, we look forward to that alteration of our waking consciousness, and therefore the non-dual state is natural, a consummation devoutly to be wished.

Or as Kirpal Singh said, "Death is no bugbear."

That's all well and good, but there's a problem with that argument. I can tell you that the non-dual "pure" consciousness of Atman is experienced as the deep sleep you (hopefully) enjoy every night. It's an argument that has a kind of logic to it.

The problem is this: what if I tell you that when you go to bed tonight, you'll never wake up again?

WHOA!!! I like my non-dual experiences just fine, but the prospect of them being permanent is not something I'd sign up for!

I think this illustrates what I mean about virtually all meditators being Dinner Bell Mystics. We are find with having a bit of mental transcendence, but not at all on board with 100% non physical existence. However detached we are from the physical world, we still largely exist in human ways, with human desires, and the thought of really giving up physical existence scares the crap out of us.

In other words, we reject Jonestown. And Marshall Applewhite. And every other guru who really takes the "we are not the body" concept to its conclusion.

[Sonia]

@Non Credo

So, I’m on my deathbed and get presented with a few options:

A. You’re gonna die and cease to exist.
B. You’re going to a better place full of love and happiness.
C. Something worse.

You can intellectualize this all you want, but I’m going with option B. It’s a no brainer.

[um]

@ Non Credo

>> The problem is this: what if I tell you that when you go to bed tonight, you'll never wake up again?,,

What if that question would be asked, during the state of deep sleep ...

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Non Credo:

You wrote:
"If meditation were the true natural high, then the problem should be our inability to stop meditating all day long. "

Yes, that's right. For some it is so. A huge issue really.

You wrote:

"We're OK meditating, but when the dinner bell of physical activity beckons, we're more than happy to leave the meditation cushion and "heaven.""

That is where most folks begin. It doesn't feel natural...But even infants need help sometimes learning to eat.

In time we learn to return to that experience again and again, and it becomes the focus of our lives.

All our waking time is living in the past, like being transported back in time to live through another life, where the whole story was already done, and more than once. I use the word "like" as if to say this is just a simile, but in truth it is fact.

You have to experience some very strange things to understand what Meditation is or isn't.

For anyone without that, it's irrational and unbelievable.

You wrote:
"We are physical beings, and that means we are limited to only knowing what pleases a physical being"

Our limits of experience can be expanded, which is the whole idea of learning to meditate, to focus the mind, to attend with care and observation.

So whatever you are limited to understand, awareness and education can change all that.

If through a telescope you can see far into the heavens, beyond your physical capacity, what about that telescope inside you to a different set of places that you haven't started using yet?

But truthfully, no one goes there unless someone there opens the door and invites us in.

Otherwise, we just pass by thinking nothing is there.

[Manoj]

One of the lucky ones ain't you, still better late than never.

Another soul frees itself from the wicked web of decite called Radha Soami and the Little Evil Baba we all know as, Gurinder Singh Dhillion (GSD)

This little fake baba can't save himself, let alone anyone else!

Dying of Cancer, Grabbing poor Farmers land, Tax frauder, Ripping Bollywood directors out of millions and lets talk about GSDs latest fiasco, millions have been stolen from the Singh brothers.They're in jail whilst this little culprit clown, has been laughing himself to the Bank for him and his greed riddled family to enjoy the Singh brothers millions how pathetic
This list goes on an on....

Nice track record for a man of god or shall we mention the ultimate Truth here, oh so Bent Baba of Beas

A luxurious life built on Deception & Greed

Looks like Gurinder Singh Dhillion needs to give himself a Satsang or two, as he's definitely going off the path. LoL

He still continues his never ending lies on Stage too, all the while knowing karma always hits home. Not long now GSD,  Home run coming up very soon...

This Nasty Radha Soami Cult has no compassion towards the soul and its journey to its real home.

Initiating the disciples in the 5 names of Kaal is really the icing on the cake.

Fate sealed by the hidden hand.

Its all about the grim reaper and his collection of souls.

Most will pass away to the evil that awaits them disguised as a god the Demonic Devil awaits as the "Lord of the soul" they come to know as ( Radha Soami ) KAAL

Yes the great saying "The Blind following the The Blind"

Gets you know where...

It took a while for this person to give up on RSSB

A bad habit always does, but it in end, it brings a wonderful life!!!

[Sonia]

I don’t believe in an actual devil anymore. Not even Kaal/Kal. It just makes life easier when you stop believing in a devil. Lol

But seriously it does make life easier. You don’t have anyone to blame but yourself. And that’s empowering because you can control what goes on inside yourself—the thoughts you think, what you do with your time, what you focus on…

Still a big fan of Lucifer, though. Can’t wait for the final half of the final season to be released in September.

[um]

@ Non Credo

Listen to what the monk has to say at 43.37 about peace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5pwfLRI-R8

[Uchit]

@osho

@I don’t get how you can say “more debt and slavery on the other side”

It is well known that as an RSSB puppet you will be doing loads of satanic meditation and seva for the so called "lord of the soul" on the other side - this is counter to freedom of the soul.

Are you sharing your opinion or a fact?
My life experience.

Who does GSD work for?
He works for the dark negative power mascerading as a entity of light ~ the perfect liar, a quality of Lucifer/satan who have power over this material world and astral worlds.

And what is he distracted from?
From living your own life, freedom, true self discovery , and freeing others in the RSSB trap.

[zenjen]

It does take a long time to give up on all of our ideas and beliefs about this world and what we are and why we are here. Looking back on how my thoughts and judgments (especially of myself) and realising that we will never know who and what we really are and why we are here on this tiny planet called Earth spinning through space. Its best to simply give up and stop relying on some other person such as a guru, or so called God. We won't know until after death, which in my opinion, is a good way to be, just being kind to self and others and simply trying to be aware and open minded and doing the best we can. Keep it simple :)
Lots of love to all, from Jen.

[Non Credo]

Addendum II on "Who wants heaven"

@ Sonia: Intellectualizing! It's OK fo gurus or whoever to say we survive death, it's okay to assume we survive death, but asking how it's possible we survive death is "intellectualizing"? The question of whether the RS path actually works for its primary purpose -- surviving death -- is kind of an important question. It's at least a pertinent question for this forum. But it's never a question that ever gets talked about, which is OK I guess. However, simply raising the question one is called out for "intellectualizing"? I"m sorry, but that's just silly.

@Spence: Come on now, I've been a student of spiritual traditions since the 70s, and there is hardly anyone who is so enamored with meditation that they have a problem leaving off. I guess one would be Ramana Maharshi, but one who wasn't was (by his own admission) Charan Singh, who confessed his guru had to bribe him to put in time to meditate, and who always referred to meditation as a lifelong struggle.

What you describe of the experience of meditation doesn't match what Charan Singh said, nor does it match the experiences of the vast majority of people. Struggle as they might for decades, they never reach anything close to a stage where they're so enthralled with meditation they can hardly bear the waking state of regular waking human consciousness.

The experience of meditation in RS is supposed to be a radical transcendence of normal consciousness. The fact that people only spend a fraction of their daily hours in meditation speaks for itself on how truly transcendental it is.

What's actually going on is what I referred to before re Dinner Bell Mysticism. Meditators have a kind of faith that their time in meditation is building up spiritual merit. They may enjoy their time in meditation too, of course. But they are not so enthralled with the meditative state that they prefer it over normal human waking consciousness. If that weren't the case, they'd run to a cave as Ramana did and sit all day long while insects chewed their legs.

By the way, by citing Ramana I'm not proving that the meditative state is all the mystics say it is. Just because Ramana could sit for many hours daily without a care for living or dying is no indication that we survive death, or even that whatever Ramana experienced would be satisfactory to us if we had to live in it eternally.

As humans, we may meditate, but always with an ear for the dinner bell. We believe meditation if fine, but none of us want to do it all day long, and that indicates we really don't believe the meditative state is satisfying except as a temporary experience in the midst of our human (material) existence and all its sensual experiences.

[um]

@ Non Credo

Maybe you should see this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VjU_505i6E

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Non Credo
So you were initiated into RSSB by? When?

[Christopher]

This is a message primarily to the Indian person who sent the email which is the topic of this blog entry.
Hi,
I read and was moved by your email to Brian. Especially this part:
“I gave up my faith in Baba ji and RSSB in year 2019 with a very heavy heart... Actually I never had a pure faith or belief in RSSB... I feel guilty deep inside me for leaving the path, my heart says guru is true but my brain says big ‘no’. ”
________

I feel for you in your predicament.
It must be hard to leave something that has been a big part of your emotional life for so many years. It must be even harder to reject something that has been — and still is — such a big part of your extended family’s life.

As somebody who is satisfied with, and very grateful for, the surat shabd yoga technique and feels very fortunate that they met their RS guru (Charan Singh), you have my sympathies for the conflict you said you feel between your ‘heart’ and ’head’.
As for discontent and doubts about GSD and RSSB: being true to your thoughts, feelings and doubts sounds very healthy to me. Sincerity and honesty I regard as indispensable in the search for truth.
I hope everything works out for you and with your family.
Best wishes.
Chris.