Open Thread 40 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

Remember, off-topic comments should go in an Open Thread. 

If you don't see a recent comment, or comments, posted, it's because you've failed to follow the above rule. Keep to the subject of a blog post if you leave a comment on it. And if you want to use this blog as a "chat room," do that in an open thread.

As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks on someone are an exception, as is hate speech. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

Physicist Richard Feynman on science and God, and the true scientific worldview of learning, open mindedness, willingness to test, and admission of ignorance.

"I do not believe that science can disprove the existence of God; I think that is impossible. And if it is impossible, is not a belief in science and in a God — an ordinary God of religion — a consistent possibility?

"Yes, it is consistent. Despite the fact that I said that more than half of the scientists don’t believe in God, many scientists do believe in both science and God, in a perfectly consistent way. But this consistency, although possible, is not easy to attain, and I would like to try to discuss two things: Why it is not easy to attain, and whether it is worth attempting to attain it."

Clarifying that by “God” he means the personal deity typical of Western religions, “to whom you pray and who has something to do with creating the universe and guiding you in morals,” Feynman considers the key difficulties in reconciling the scientific worldview with the religious one. Building on his assertion that the universal responsibility of the scientist is to remain immersed in “ignorance and doubt and uncertainty,” he points out that the centrality of uncertainty in science is incompatible with the unconditional faith required by religion:

"It is imperative in science to doubt; it is absolutely necessary, for progress in science, to have uncertainty as a fundamental part of your inner nature.

"To make progress in understanding, we must remain modest and allow that we do not know. Nothing is certain or proved beyond all doubt.

"You investigate for curiosity, because it is unknown, not because you know the answer. And as you develop more information in the sciences, it is not that you are finding out the truth, but that you are finding out that this or that is more or less likely.

"That is, if we investigate further, we find that the statements of science are not of what is true and what is not true, but statements of what is known to different degrees of certainty… Every one of the concepts of science is on a scale graduated somewhere between, but at neither end of, absolute falsity or absolute truth.

"That is, if we investigate further, we find that the statements of science are not of what is true and what is not true, but statements of what is known to different degrees of certainty… Every one of the concepts of science is on a scale graduated somewhere between, but at neither end of, absolute falsity or absolute truth.

"It is necessary, I believe, to accept this idea, not only for science, but also for other things; it is of great value to acknowledge ignorance. It is a fact that when we make decisions in our life, we don’t necessarily know that we are making them correctly; we only think that we are doing the best we can — and that is what we should do.

"Now a question of the form: If I do this, what will happen? is strictly scientific. As a matter of fact, science can be defined as a method for, and a body of information obtained by, trying to answer only questions which can be put into the form: If I do this, what will happen? The technique of it, fundamentally, is: Try it and see. "

https://www.brainpickings.org/2015/05/11/richard-feynman-science-religion/

[umami]

Yes, but it's not like Feynman's message to scientists was, "You must believe in God. Now go out there and convert to something." He was anti-dogma in general. To a scientist there are no absolutes.

A scientist befriends uncertainty, also with respect to the existence of God.
"This very subtle change is a great stroke and represents a parting of the ways between science and religion. I do not believe a real scientist can ever believe in the same way again. Although there are scientists who believe in God, I do not believe that they think of God in the same way as religious people do… I do not believe that a scientist can ever obtain that view — that really religious understanding, that real knowledge that there is a God — that absolute certainty which religious people have."

Consequently, scientists understand God better than anyone! I think he means to defend against the popular notion that scientists are empty. There's a link within the link, Ode to a Flower...

"I have a friend who’s an artist and has sometimes taken a view which I don’t agree with very well. He’ll hold up a flower and say “look how beautiful it is,” and I’ll agree. Then he says “I as an artist can see how beautiful this is but you as a scientist take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing,” and I think that he’s kind of nutty. First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me too, I believe…

"I can appreciate the beauty of a flower. At the same time, I see much more about the flower than he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside, which also have a beauty. I mean it’s not just beauty at this dimension, at one centimeter; there’s also beauty at smaller dimensions, the inner structure, also the processes. The fact that the colors in the flower evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting; it means that insects can see the color. It adds a question: does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms? Why is it aesthetic? All kinds of interesting questions which the science knowledge only adds to the excitement, the mystery and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don’t understand how it subtracts."

Reading between the lines, I think he was also combatting the sly associations made between science, communism, atheism and Judaism.
"The communist views are the antithesis of the scientific, in the sense that in communism the answers are given to all the questions — political questions as well as moral ones — without discussion and without doubt. The scientific viewpoint is the exact opposite of this; that is, all questions must be doubted and discussed; we must argue everything out — observe things, check them, and so change them."

If you want democracy to work, science is the better template. He continues,
"The democratic government is much closer to this idea, because there is discussion and a chance of modification. One doesn’t launch the ship in a definite direction. It is true that if you have a tyranny of ideas, so that you know exactly what has to be true, you act very decisively, and it looks good — for a while. But soon the ship is heading in the wrong direction, and no one can modify the direction anymore. So the uncertainties of life in a democracy are, I think, much more consistent with science."

Though Jewish by birth he saw the error and danger in making it a definition. "To select, for approbation the peculiar elements that come from some supposedly Jewish heredity is to open the door to all kinds of nonsense on racial theory." He ​rejected narrow religious views, including those of rabbis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

[Spence Tepper]

New theory of electromagnetism published in Journal of Physics: Conference Series 2021, proposes it is, like gravity, a property of all matter (that would include these tiny electro-chemical brains) and preposes a need definition of aether as the medium.

https://sciencex.com/news/2021-07-electromagnetism-property-spacetime.amp

Umami, you were wondering?

[umami]

Spence,

Good find! Most of it is over my head, but this caught my eye.
"John Wheeler, the famous physicist, put forward the idea that all of the material world is constructed from the geometry of the spacetime. Our research strongly supports this kind of natural philosophy. It means that the material world always corresponds to some geometric structures of spacetime."
EVERYTHING made of spacetime.

I'm already a little dubious of Glenn Borchardt's aether theory. For example, curved spacetime explains gravitational lensing around galactic clusters. I still like his idea that cosmological redshift doesn't really mean an expanding universe. Not a physicist, not even close, but dark energy sounds like hocus pocus.

[Mary Poppins]

Praise be the Lord.

And Richard Feynman. Possibly the only original thinker produced by the U S of A.

[777]

I believe it is Bhutan where they have a tax on happiness
Atheists pay little

777

[manjit]

Hi Tim Rimmer. Really enjoying your recent comments, thoughtful, intelligent, open-minded, curious etc. Cute seeing you trying to engage in a civilised, polite, open-minded, intelligent discussion....:) Contrary to appearances, I've been posting here and the RSS forum for something like 20 years and I've given up on that vain hope, and you see the cynical, sarcastic, abusive online RS persona I have now.....I was politer than you at the beginning!! ;D I basically just press fast forward on all discussions and get them to where they all inevitably end up; closed minded dogmatists and fundamentalists assured of their beliefs and unable to even question them, pro or ex RS. Generally. But then there are the occasional intelligent, thoughtful, balanced, open-minded, genuine and sincere comments from people more interested in the subject matter than the online play and persona.

Reading Tim's, Sonia's and a few of the other recent comments re. Gurinder's Q&A's etc has filled the basket of my head with a million things, so I couldn't help but haphazardly empty my basket out here because the contents are useless in my own real life....

There's a vast amount of information I don't have time to even reference let alone go deeply into, but I strongly feel, at this moment, like distilling this discussion down into another, simpler filter; There appears to be 2 distinct "strains" of "mystical experience". Now the following is simply a generalised opinion based on my own specific experiences and intellectual learning, make or don't make of that as you will.

One type of experience is what I would class as visionary, OBEs, inner light and sound (even!), apparent "past life memories", certain types of meditative ecstasies and samadhis etc. I grew up since a child experiencing these to the point I could, for example, have OBEs almost at will, encounter and talk to visionary "inner gurus", samadhis and other related inner and outer phenomena.

The "problem" with these is - in both my experience and close observation of others - these BOTH (perhaps this is not a coincidence but a causative-correlation :) do not provide true and lasting peace, happiness, joy, love etc, OR free one from identification with conceptual and ultimately illusory human beliefs. They are temporary altered states of consciousness that do not radically challenge or alter our fundamental nature of being at the very core so to speak, or how it is perceived. The same experiencer had an experience, so what? The same experiencer remains. Just as unhappy, incomplete, full of fear, seeking validation or attention from others etc etc etc

There are a great many such "mystics" out there, generating all manner of visionary experiences which apparently reinforce the dualistic narratives of whichever conceptual religious indoctrination they bring to the table, be it Christian mystics framing their visions in the context of Jesus, Indian mystics in the context of karma, chaurasi and gurus to Jewish mystics framing them in the context of the Torah or Zohar, to mystics in the rainforests framing it in the context of "Spirit Jaguars" etc. The concepts, culture and language within which we have these experiences profoundly influences how we interpret them.

Whilst I do believe these experiences can sometimes confer "supernatural" knowledge (the evidence is over-whelming, actually) and the like, I do think ultimately they are within the illusory scope of the human intellect, or "maya".

Then there is the 2nd type of "mystical" experience, one that is so far beyond any human conception or limitation that one is truly - truly - silenced. All that one knows for certain, conceptually, is that no concept or thought has ever even begun to comprehend the majesty and vastness of it, and no doctrine, dogma, belief or cosmology can even come close to expressing it. Not. Even. Close. I contend many genuine mystics go completely unheard of because they are the most deepest realisers, and remain completely silent. Out of the many known and famous mystics, even amongst the Bhakti movement of India 600-400 years ago, I suggest in their highest ecstasies the deepest mystics like Kabir (whose poem ecstatically expressing this I posted the other day) and Nanak express this non-dual "truth", like Buddha, that ultimately there is no bondage or liberation. They had TRANSCENDED their deeply indoctrinated cultural mindset (curiously, many RS followers from the West have had to ADD this conceptual baggage to their load BEFORE they get on with the process of shedding their concepts :).

Faqir Chand is imo the only RS guru to have any sort of grasp of these issues, or the honesty to discuss them openly at least, because they let loose the concepts which bind disciples to their guru's.

Whilst the experience is ineffable and there is no dogma or teaching it is possible to extract from it, one is ontologically aware in the depths of their being that the very nature of their being is eternal (once it is experientially recognised consciousness doesn't belong to "manjit", and that "I" am not "manjit" but consciousness, and that consciousness belongs to all sentient life, and that without consciousness there is no reality, one becomes immediately eternal), and that the fundamental qualities of being are natural and spontaneous joy, overwhelming love and compassion and deep and abiding peace (regardless of "outer" circumstances, indeed specifically during the MOST challenging moments of life). And, that the ultimate condition of all sentient life is incommunicably & inextricably connected and held in an infinite love within which notions of "hell" or "chaurasi" will seem like the bad childish beliefs that they are. That really is all. That is why Jesus' final and presumably most important teaching was "love one another". Not really much to base a religion or cult off, unless it's people just sharing joy and happiness.....which is not what I remember happening at most satsangs.

The problem arises when you have masses (religions) misunderstand what this deeper and far rarer experience is like based on selective, out of context, out of culture, out of era, out of language etc quotes from selective long-dead mystics, where they gravitate towards the more mundane, dreary and superficial aspects of their teachings which they are more able to relate to, even if they are quite possibly misunderstandings or utterances spoken in their less than ecstatic states. Satgurus are humans too, you know.

If at the head of these religions you have symbolic figureheads who themselves are either not "mystics" in any real sense at all, but find themselves in the position based on familial inheritance or just being able to put on a good show, or arguably even worse, "mystics" of the first sort I mention, who actually believe all the bat shit crazy visions and conversations going on in their very heavily dualistic laden, astral minds, then you are probably going to have a problem because the first sort will never be able to bring any authentic joy to their interpretations of the RS dogma, it will be mechanical and rote. The second type may encourage temporary ecstasies and momentarily thrilling visionary experiences, but they will also believe every bat shit crazy thought that comes into their astral mind, and that would always be a dangerous trait in a guru and will NEVER lead one to transcend the human beliefs and intellect as they are entirely motivated by and within the sphere of mind. Without a belief in karma, chaurasi, satguru etc, there is no purpose to be following any of these RS gurus. They themselves have stated this clearly. They are not merchants of joy, ecstasy, happiness etc, but merchants of escapism, of sadness and fear. If you don't have it, no need to go to them. That is their sphere of operation.

So I really do feel for Gurinder Singh. I suggest he is not a deeply experienced mystic, at least of the 2nd sort, but somebody well trained within the global religion that his family have been patriarchs of for decades. He is leader of a religion with millions of followers with many different levels of intellect, understanding, motivation etc, most of whom born and raised within this religion....this religion that claims to be an experiential, mystical "science of the soul".

I find Dungeness's implied defence of RS "mysticism" and gurus sweet, but misguided. Dungeness wrote: "The mystic counterpoints "I don't have to justify my belief either. Nor
should you believe any spiritual claims unless you've validated those
claims experientially within yourself. Here's a path for actualizing the
inner experiences I've had. Follow it if you're interested. If, after
sincere effort, you conclude its methods are flawed or the promises
are hollow, look elsewhere. But, please let me know if you find a
more effective method and I'll adopt it as well.""

But isn't this the point; RS and indeed all other RS gurus and groups of all shapes and sizes are actually predicating their entire "mysticism" on deeply embedded cultural-linguistic beliefs that most of it's followers are actually born into. There is no such open mindedness or easy availability to be free of such beliefs, it is literally the familial and cultural "reality" many of these satsangis are born into.

What is this "method" business? Who "needs" a "method" to do anything? Only if you are indoctrinated with the idea that you need a "method" does this conversation with this alleged "mystic" mean anything.

First you must be told you are currently trapped in a terrible creation full of nothing but suffering. Then you must be told you are stuck in an infinite cycle of births and deaths full of nothing but suffering. Then you must be told that my family's lineage of Godmen have uniquely and exclusively escaped this suffering, even if 1,000 other RS gurus teach/parrot the exact same dogma. Then you must believe this. Then we can talk of "methods".

So we are left with this almost tragi-comic succession of Gurinder Q&A videos of which I've probably seen or skipped through around 20 or so. Every single one can be reduced to 3 Q&A dynamics:

1) Q: I am absolutely certain you are the true guru and this path is true, though I have had no success or even interest in meditation. Please grant me success in transcending this veil of suffering and grant me liberation from the wheel of chaurasi. Also, please make sure my children get a good education, job and marriage. A: No problem.

2) Q: I have had no success in meditation, or I had a little success at the beginning, but I have had absolutely no success in 5, 10, 20, 30 years, please help me. A: Shut up and keep trying (you will notice that, unlike Dungeness's hypothetical "mystic", there is no suggestion of perhaps trying something else!).

3) Q: I can't get my head round the bag of contradictory ideas you keep saying about karma, effort and grace. Can you please try one more time to explain it, I just know you must be making sense and it is me that isn't understanding it? A: Yes, absolutely everything is determined and absolutely nothing can change that, meditation only changes our ability to mentally deal with our destiny (CONTRADICTION #1: your mental state automatically effects your actions which in turn effect your "destiny" etc). Absolutely everything is determined but you must make the right choices to progress on the path, God has given us this ability (CONTRADICTION #2 If absolutely everything is determined this implies we have no free will as free will can change outcomes, hence we are unable to make choices and hence this game, apparently "God's game", is rigged).

Every single Q&A I have heard has been a slight variation of one of the above 3.

But what is Gurinder to do? Alas he is merely a pawn in a much bigger and older game than he. There is no easy solution or answer to the many sufferings in life, and Gurinder perhaps not being a genuinely ecstatic mystic doesn't know what else to say or do except double down on the dogma inherent in his position. He is merely playing a role, perhaps fulfilling his dharma (of course, it would be much easier to be charitable and enthusiastic about Gurinder even despite these limitations if he hadn't been involved in all the obscene greed based behaviour). And the real ecstatic mystic? Who would gather round them, they are not selling imprisonment or a terrible world under the guise of a cure for such an imagined, conceptual reality. There is nothing for the dualistic, ego-centric mind to catch hold and produce a religion or cult out of, nothing being sold.

I have stated before I think we should live a life that if, ultimately, every single belief we had about everything was wrong, we would live our life exactly the same way regardless, and would be happy to relive that life from beginning to end in an infinite loop. THAT is a life lived correctly, imo.

It is one thing to follow a RS or any other guru because you just love it, you love the joy, happiness, aroma etc of a person or place. It is another to hold a set of beliefs that make you feel compelled to live life in a almost certainly less than happy way because you feel afraid of some concept or other that, lets be honest, is almost certainly wrong. THAT is a life wasted, imo.

I just realised I've gone way, way off course of my original intention in posting so that's all rather silly.

Anyway coming back to this incredibly life and existence denying cosmology within which the entire purpose of RS and it's gurus rests, I'd like to come back to Rumi, imo a TRUE mystic of the highest order. Rumi is globally respected, and perhaps that is why he is often quoted within RS literature as a respected "mystic". However the selection and interpretation of his quotes has to be extremely narrow, as Rumi ranged far and wide outside the RS dogma. Perhaps the most egregious example of RS mis-quoting Rumi has been the attempt to connect Rumi's truly "free" ecstasy to the life-denying & implicitly fear-based cosmology and doctrine of RS in Rumi's famous "I died as a mineral" verse, which RS misrepresents as having the same meaning as the karmic and chaurasi doctrine. But a closer reading of the verse suggests something radically different:

"“I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was human,
Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die human,
To soar with angels blessed above.
And when I sacrifice my angel soul
I shall become what no mind ever conceived.
As a human, I will die once more,
Reborn, I will with the angels soar.
And when I let my angel body go,
I shall be more than mortal mind can know.”"

Even ignoring the imo deeper meaning; he is talking from the perspective of impersonal consciousness evolving through space and time, not an individuated "soul" caught in cause and effect, duh! - there is an obvious line here that clearly shows Rumi is not talking about the fear-inducing doctrine of karma and transmigration, he clearly asks "Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?". Which RS guru or speaker or book is saying this?

Rumi's "mysticism", unlike that of any RS guru I am aware of, is purely ecstatic and based on love and joy, and not fear of this or that religious threat or cosmology. There is no concept for the masses to build a religion of oppression upon, it is impossible.

Finally, one can only hope some of these many hundreds and presumably thousands if not millions of people leading unsatisfactory lives following a path and practice that just isn't suited to them, but they are attached to by culture, family, deeply ingrained beliefs etc, are able to get to a place where they can hear a Rumi say:

"“Respond to every call
that excites your spirit.
Ignore those that make you fearful
and sad, that degrade you
back toward disease and death.”"

Who is making you fearful and sad by degrading you back towards disease and death?

[Dungeness]

@ Hi Manjit : " '“Respond to every call that excites your spirit.
Ignore those that make you fearful and sad, that degrade
you back toward disease and death. --Rumi”'
You: Who is making you fearful and sad by degrading you
back towards disease and death? "

I vaguely recall a lament put to Charan (or Sawan) that all Satsangs
were a recounting of nasty things ... pain, disappointment, separation,
shortness of life. "Yes", his answer went, "but, even so, you should be
able to smell the fragrance of something beautiful".

One of GSD's common responses to impassioned complaints and
pleas for lightening of burdens is "I'm not here to lead you from one
delusion to the next. If I promise something not destined, who will
you then blame..." For me, in that singularly un-Rumi-esque moment,
the fragrance came.

[Mary had a Little Lamb]

Man what a snoozefest…

Does anyone actually read that guy’s crap?

[Spence Tepper]

"The Apple asked, 'Orange, why the frown?'
The Orange answered, 'So that those who mean harm will not see my beauty.'"
Rumi

[Spence Tepper]

One Light, Different Windows

By Rumi

The prophets are like one single being. If you refuse one of them, you refuse them all.

It's like ritual washing. If you don't wash one of your organs and wash all the others, it will be of no use. So, as the prophets recognize each other, if you don't admit one of them, it is as if you had admitted none of them. In fact, there's only One Light that appears through different windows and which reaches us through the person of each prophet. All of these lights stream from the same Sun.

If you refuse a part of this light, that shows that you're a bat. You're like a bat who says, "I am against this year's sun, but I accept last year's." In fact, this year's and last year's sun are not different in any way. Whatever difference you think you perceive comes from the fact that you didn't really experience last year's sun. "

Letters, from Teachings of Rumi, translated by Andrew Harvey, Shambala Press

[Spence Tepper]

"The human being who can do without God and makes no effort to realize God is not a human being at all; while if he were able to understand God, then that would not be God.

" The authentic human being, then, is one who is never free from striving, who turns restlessly and endlessly about the light of the Majesty of God.

" God is He who consumes man and makes him nothing, since no reason can understand Him."
Rumi (ibid)

[Di]

For what it's worth.
"A belief is not merely an idea the mind possesses; it is an idea that possesses the mind." Robert O. Bolt.
"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge." A. Einstein

[Solomon]

We Are Into God… Whom We Are Trying To Seek - Spirituality is not a journey – its an Awakening, a Realization of the Higher Self ...

https://divine-order.wixsite.com/beyond-self/post/we-are-into-god-whom-we-are-trying-to-seek

[Spence Tepper]

The more we try to find answers in this world, in possessions, achievements and other people, even Gurus, the more miserable we become. The reactions, the results of seeking pleasier in this world, the more unhappy the final results.

Because the deepest part of ourselves, you may call it soul, but it is what you find when reactivity subsides. That part wants integration with the whole within.

So it is only going within where we really we find that.

Then everyone around us is fine. They were all pointing to the same thing. Our next steps within.

A good Teacher is simply more direct about it.

[Spence Tepper]

Who else thinks Dr.Who is a well intended horses ass?

[S]

The problem with humanity isn’t the belief in a God. The problem with humanity is the belief in a Devil.

It’s difficult to accept that a great deal of problems in the world arise from our egoic projections.

[Spence Tepper]

Two magicians meet in a bar...
Mind : Give me one thing, and I will give you thousands...
Heart: Give me a thousand things and I will give you One.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hey Mary without the little lamb (someone else used to post here who was big into nursery rhymes) - I guess you’re referring to Manjit? To find what he writes interesting a) you have to read it, often more than once, and b) often, it’s useful to place it in the context of a long history of to-ing and fro-ing in regards to posters here, who were/are pretty tied up with the Indian religio/spiritual path of Sant Mat. If you are a strong believer and have things ‘sorted’ then that’s cool. If you have no interest in this path and visit the blog for various other reasons then cool. If you have questions with how the whole thing (SM) now fits your life, have concerns about the present Guru’s approach to finance or just have an open mind, then in my view what Manjit writes is often like a series of belief system broadsides, some getting terser of late. I enjoy reading what he has to say.
So Manjit, thanks for your response. Here’s to the cute engagers. Maybe Brian will say something when he finishes Lent’s book?
Best wishes

[Mary had a Little Lamb]

Hey Tim

It’s bollocks buddy, outright BS. How bored must the dude be to comprise that twaddle. Is it a crime to call a spade a spade?

No I don’t have things sorted and I’m not a strong believer in SM. But the guru makes sense to me and I noticed a whole bunch of ppl on here including old manjit make no sense in the slightest. So if manjit can fling dung at the guru, I take it he’s just as happy for the same to be done to him? Or do you think I’m being unfair?

If you think manjit makes sense I am not going to object - but my view is that it’s total mindless crap.

[Appreciative Reader]

Mary (with or without lamb):

Actually manjit is pretty much erudite and well read, and exceptionally well informed, when it comes to things mystical. Given recent exchanges with him I'm less sure of late than I used to be about the veracity of his personal experiences, and indeed his personal evolution in spiritual terms, and I no longer would recommend accepting what he says without keeping a pinch of salt at the ready; but, that said, none of this takes away from the sheer depth of his knowledge about things spiritual and mystical.

If you're interested in this kind of thing, you know, the whole mysticism deal, then I'd suggest that you might benefit from manjit's depth of knowledge, and you might enjoy his posts if you took the trouble to read through them. No need to swallow everything he says wholesale, but it would be short-sighted to dismiss his posts outright just because they're long. At least that is my view, YMMV, obviously.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hi AR - courteously said
Mary H A L L - I’m wondering if you have an uncle called Georgy?
I recognise that you have strong views in regard to Manjit’s posts.
All I’ll say is calling them twaddle/mindless crap/a load of bollux doesn’t work for me.
If you outlined why using the word because….. then I could pay what you say further attention.

Hey Sonia - we’ve been watching a show about the Romans/Druids called ‘Britannia’ on DVD. Not sure if its the same thing as the one you watch. Britannia is completely over the top and weirdly compelling.
BFN

[Sonia]

Hi Tim,

Yes! That’s the one. It’s a little dark and bizarre but I really enjoyed that show for some reason. Not sure if the new season is out yet. The characters are very well developed. Love the girl and her bat shit crazy mentor. They’re the best part of the series, IMO.

I was discussing Britannia with a friend and they explained to me that the Romans truly believed the emperor was GIHF (the ones that believed).

I don’t know if the Druids were truly as bizarre as that show depicts but the writers of the show said they were having fun with it trying to give an added trippy feel to the plot.

[Sonia]

Mary, Mary quite contrary…

You say you have a lot of respect for GSD but you don’t seem to respect many of the things he respects. Which makes me think, in truth you have no respect for him at all.

[Sonia]

And what I mean by that is, at least GSD respects everyone’s right to think and believe differently. He also respects people’s right to express themselves in their own unique way. Of course, respect and agree with are two different things. But you’ll never reach a mutual understanding without respect.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Maybe I need to work on my delivery but surely you Americans are a hardy bunch who don’t like your truth sugar-coated.

Sorry I call bullshit when I see it.

If manjit can be critical, outspoken and take low-blows at the guru, why can’t I do the same to manjit? Surely what’s good for the gander is good for the goose.

But actually all I’ve said is that it’s mindless drivel - it’s not half as personal as what is written about the guru. But seems no one believes in FairPlay anymore - no more cowboys left. Where have all the good guys gone??

[G’day Mary Dingleberry]

AR

Sorry manjit posts bullshit, when he and Tepper start going on about golden balls of light, you know it’s time to call bullshit on their subjective experiences. For an atheist with your nose stuck so far up Hinesey’s butthole , I’m surprised you actually seem to be so open-minded when it comes to mysticism.

I don’t get you guys - are you atheists or what ? Pick a side - this stuff is just confusing.

In fairness to the randy hotstepper he seems to be getting into trouble with the atheists on this website so I will give him some respect ✊

What happened to good old fashioned open minded debate. We used to have many mystical believers on this site who have great insights - now it’s all pop neurology and guru-bashing.

[Appreciative Reader]

Hello, Mary.

All you're doing is dismissing what people write, without actually critiquing their ideas. That, and calling people names, manjit first, now apparently me as well, and poor Brian caught in the crossfire (but then he owns and runs the place, so that comes with the territory I guess). You can do that if you want, but hardly the stuff to make for "open debate", any of that, is it?

I said what I did back there thinking you might be interested in mysticism. If you aren't, then sure, none of what manjit writes, and indeed much of what we discuss here, will be likely to appeal to you. No issues.

You're right, I'm very interested in mysticism. I try to stay as rational as I can, and yes, atheism is what seems to me to be the rational and reasonable conclusion basis what I've seen and known and experienced, but that is separate from whether or not this mysticism business interests me. It does.

[Sonia]

@ Mary Quite Contrary

No, you can’t take verbal blows at other people in defense of the guru because he literally asks that people don’t do that. He would prefer that you don’t do that—his request, not mine (although, when I’m in my right mind I agree that one should turn the other cheek when they can).

But, you have free will so do what you know in your heart is the right thing to do.

[Marko]

Manjit doesn't deserve lowblows and his writing is not bullshit in any form.
You can easily follow your guru and live with Manjits writings. So peace to all of your precious hearts friends and have a cool time.

[🌺🌺. -- BE Gloriously FREE -- 🌺🌺]

@Sonia said :
But, you have free will ; ; ; ;

This was discussed extensively here
A Brain Scan operator knows what you will do
a whole 8 seconds before You know that yourself
My takes:
Only God and those who know HIM have free will

The idea of free will is a gift to the atheists to prevent crazyness and Hogwarts
The middle_phases are essential for the creation of what seems to be Love

777

[s*]

Manjitś post!!!
I like it and I agree with the contradictions in the Teachings´.
Also the Circel of Transmigration is a terrible FEAR mongering concept.
What makes people totaly dependened on the Guru.
Sooo yeahh... Manjitś posts are mosty very honest and good in my vieuw.

Sita

[s*]

Besideś the fear mongering ideaś..there are sometimes satsangs...
...telling that ´we are the fortunate ones´..
Other creatures, can not go´ back´..(to their real home)
Only we can..that is the old santmat that some people like to tell when they give satsang.

I think Babaji do not say such things ..that is the ´old santmat´ (Soamiji and later Masters.
But idd Babaji says that by different paths people can go ´back´ also.

Itś all a bit confusing..as I see it.

The ´Oness´ what Osho talked about also with Babaji...was good..;0)!
But cruel Sewadarś made him gone away from the Path now totaly I think.

[Sonia]

Manjit,

I think you you should create a book composed of a collection of your comments on this blog. :)

You could publish it. That would be really cool.

[umami]

Spence,

I'm puzzled how you were interested in Earth women at all. Going within is supposed make the physical world look insignificant by comparison--like 'dross' (a word I learned reading RS books).

"The senses are detached from the objects; the mind no longer runs through senses; the attention is held by the Word within; the evils — lust, anger and so forth — run out from within, finding the place too hot for them, and they go out one by one in the form of children, not secretly but declaring openly that in the presence of the Word they cannot remain within."

Didn't that happen to you?

[🎥 🍿 🧠 🔥]

Movie night. Watched ‘Brain on Fire’ on Netflix. Highly recommend it. Based on a true story. Inspiring.

[Posted by: 🎥 Brian on Fire 🔥]

Thank U
7

[🌺🌺. -- S* ALL will be FREE -- 🌺🌺]

@S*

All Jeevas (Soul + Ego) will join God but at different times / velocities
It just means RE-recognising that They are God and always were

For knocking on the door you need The Door (6th& 7th Chakra)
That s why Angels can't ; neighter 999 IQ Cyborgs or Brahmas

777

Better use the opportunity before you will be a Brahma or a Cyborg next life

[umami]

Follow up question:

Women on the astral plane must be incredibly hot. If you can't resist Earth women, how can you control yourself around astral women?

Spence? 777? Anyone?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Umami
You wrote
"The senses are detached from the objects; the mind no longer runs through senses; the attention is held by the Word within; the evils — lust, anger and so forth — run out from within, finding the place too hot for them, and they go out one by one in the form of children, not secretly but declaring openly that in the presence of the Word they cannot remain within."

" Didn't that happen to you?"

Not permanently. It's a gradual process. Episodic, and growing. A daily cleansing, in meditation. Shabd is absolutely pure, but we have a gooey mind, a sticky mind. Periods of my life were beautifully free and others plagued with worldly ills and attachments. We can fall. Absolutely, as I did. Now, 25 years later, it seems much less likely. I have a smaller and happier life.

We carry karma. Meditation is the process of burning it. But what we are given in this life, we must go through.

What is horrifying is when we see we are hurting anyone else.

But that attachment to Shabd has become stronger through each passing year, and has given me the strength to do the right thing more often, to make amends without delay.

I'm still a human being, Umami, and nothing more.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Umami
You wrote
"Women on the astral plane must be incredibly hot. If you can't resist Earth women, how can you control yourself around astral women?"

Everyone has a young adult and Hollywood perfect form there, including you and I. And any focus at all reveals that form then we look upon anyone else. So everyone is perfect, in their Astral form. Appearance was not the basis for my fall. But even so, when there, in meditation, free from the body, bathed in Shabd, it's not an issue. In the sea of love there is no desire for anything else.

I wish I could stay there all the time. But daily now works for me... And I carry the fragrance of that [email protected] my daily life in His presence.

[Spence Tepper]

Oops... Fragrance of that in my daily life... Unsure how a colleague's email got inserted. Brian ji if you can delete that email it would be most appreciated

[umami]

Spence,
Thank you.
Why do you suppose Great Master described "lust, anger and so forth" personified as children? Can you offer any insight?

[s*]

Dear 777

´Better use the opportunity before you will be a Brahma or a Cyborg next life´
One should not say things like this.
This is what I mean!!

How do you know this ???
Itś threatening...
If this then that..
We are who and how we are.
God is Love ( I hope) and maybe I personaly want to think so..

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Umami
I have seen these reckless boys, all five of them, in dreams. But never in my meditation. They occupy their characters in the subconscious.

Usually they are two or three, in an abandoned and broken house that I also lived in. They were happy and at peace but incredibly delinquent. All the windows in that house were shattered, but there was no darkness there.

I simply stepped out and into another house of windows to find two more here. But in those repeated dreams, there was nothing I could do. They were squatters and all my efforts towards peaceful encouragement got me nowhere. They had nowhere else to go, being indigent themselves.

These were just dreams, just projections from my own mind. But these adolescent delinquent boys, while each good humored, were intractable.

[s*]

This is my point we ´are´ already the One´
The One is Love..
We have to go trough things because??? I dońt know!
It is alright to ´not know´
I am in the unknown and so are we..
We ARE the unknown, seen from here..
Itś good to feel the connection with the Loving Unknown
In my humble vieuw.

[😂 🤪 777 🤪 😂]

S*

Next time U look to HIM
like you did jumping in the R'dam woods
and U feel bad
Just say*:
"YOU created this mess, . . . I"m innocent" . . That will help

777

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You had commented on the Bricks at the bottom and Bricks at the top analogy Maharahi used to give.
I heard this on the audio downloads of Maharaji's Q and As, from the official RSSB site volume 2 near the very end...

"Well sister, how can we have the same type of Karmas?  Well, you see this building? All  bricks can't be put in the foundation. Some bricks have to come in the walls, some bricks have to be in the ceiling, some at the top, then only this whole building can be constructed. So this creation is to continue. There are so many parts to be played by people. So they have to be fitted in their own parts. Then only this creation can continue."

Note Maharahi's remark
" All  bricks can't be put in the foundation. "

This is where he points to as the place we all want to be, in the foundation. Not at the top waving flags.

What appears as worldly success as the top bricks is the last place to be from a spiritual perspective.

The foundation, in the dark, what no one can see looking outside, invisible to the world, beneath all others, is where you want to be. The engines of creation are there.

[Sonia 📕 Life is Weird]

Not sure why I’ve never mentioned this before, but I saw Brian’s ‘Life is Fair’ book cover in a dream before I had even heard of Sant Mat.

Years later (today) as I study the book cover, I find it interesting that the figure on the cover of the book is holding scales in their hands. I don’t remember seeing that part. Scales. So very Libran.

[Spence Tepper]

Life is balanced, not fair.

[Sonia]

Actually it’s in a constant state of flux trying to achieve equilibrium.

[s*]

777
"YOU created this mess, . . . I"m innocent" . . That will help´

Yes!! Good one !!

[Sonia]

777
"YOU created this mess, . . . I"m innocent" . . That will help´

Yes!! Good one !!

Posted by: s* | August 15, 2021 at 08:38 AM

Ooo… I really like where this is going.

[#operationgururescue]

Do you think GSD sees himself as having any sort of identity outside RSSB? Is he able to accept that he might be just another person on this planet trying to figure things out? Or would that require extensive therapy?

Maybe he truly doesn’t buy into all the RSSB hype and feels trapped by it. Maybe he feels like a prisoner unable to pack up and leave… forced to play this role. Maybe “RSSB” as an organization actually holds the power and GSD is their puppet. Maybe we’ve got it all backwards.

[um]

#operationgururescue

In a sense it is as you say ... it is like a kingdom, or a democracy
Those that are chosen to play a given role, have to play it

His uncle would again and again, state, grabbing his own knees, look, THIS is not the master and pointing at the audience and YOU[people] are not the soul.

Everybody related to this type of teachings can tell his or her story of how they became involved ... these stories have in common that they were "guided" so to say.

Even the owner of this blog, now an atheist tells the same tale.

The same with the one human that has to accept the role as ... Master.

[#operationgururescue]

@um

Sounds grim. Anonymity is freedom.

Can you imagine what his radical RSSB committee would do if he tried to leave? Seriously, do you think it’s possible they might even try to kill him?

We’ve all heard how fanatical they can be and most are familiar with their history of making death threats. Who knows, maybe they’ve even succeeded in taking out a few people here and there.

The old men and women on the committee see themselves as important. They see the organization as important. It gives them a certain level of status in the incredibly impoverished and uneducated area surrounding it.

I guess it’s “special” in their eyes in the sense that it gives a few old men on an RS board a sense of power. They have to hold on tight to that little power and status they imagine themselves to have. By any means.

All speculation. But not without warrant.

Charan said at the end of his life that he felt like a prisoner among RSSB. (Not a savior but a prisoner.)

[um]

@ #operationgururescue

What is grim?
Reality can be or is grim ... it all depends if one wants to fight it or not.

You have to differentiate between India, where this path orginated and the rest of the world.

After all these long years, I have come to the conclusion that "religion" and everything related to it, has an complete different meaning in India, than elsewhere in the world.

For westerners it is hardley to understand that people are willing to kill and be killed for things spiritual.

Compare it with the meaning Voodoo has in Haiti, Brasilia etc and the witchcraft in most african countries. Or ... how impossible it is for a man to understand what it is to give birth.

Guru's are GIVEN to a community and owned by them as a precious commodity and they let NOBODY steal it away from them ... not even the guru himself. Just read what happened to Charan Singh went he came to know that he was the chosen one.

For sant mat or any other path to continue in the west, it has to free itself from its cultural and regional image.

The founder of Macro Biotics stressed people to eat what was there in their own envirantment for their own wellfare .... hahahaha. Where does rice grow in the west?

[#operationgururescue]

@um

Excellent points you make…

I bet if GSD could pack up and leave RSSB tomorrow, and go live anonymously somewhere, he’d do it in a heartbeat.

[um]

#operationgururescue

I can not speak for them but what I do know is that both, after accepting what could not be refused, they, as a human being, served that community to the best of their abilities.

This has nothing to do with their spiritual status the have or not have. Everybody with an open mind can see and conclude, that they made the best of their duties, giving guidance to that community.

They rule like presidents, kings etc ...the style might not be ones cup of tea or one can question the necessity of the community etc but ... service is service.

[#operationgururescue]

@um

What if they, like Charan Singh, feel trapped from the beginning. They see the man/men behind the curtain. They don’t even believe in a lot of the teachings. They see how foolish the followers are for actually believing the guru is god when they themselves know they aren’t god.

What if all the followers are foolish, the guru is screaming to get out, and the real heads organization are holding everything together with an iron fist and plenty of threats. That’s most likely the case.

You’re right, spirituality in India is a whole different kind of animal.

[#operationgururescue]

Maybe GSD has always presented SM teachings in a dry way because he doesn’t care about being a guru.

Maybe GSD is grumpy a lot of the time because he really doesn’t want to be there but he can’t escape.

He’s trapped. And the only time an RS guru gets to leave is when they die. So, they’ve got that hanging over his head.

Sad.

He’s like a circus elephant. It’s really cruel when you think about it.

Circus elephant.

[um]

#operationgururescue

There is no end to "what if's"

If there are curtains with men behind it etc ... I do not know. I have my own eyes and based upon the expression on their faces over time, I must conclude that they are in controll of the situation they happen to be in.

And ... I do not think that their followers deserve to be labeled in any negative way.

If I understand what you suggest as possible future ...it would be a terrible loss for ALL involved and the communities they live in.

[Appreciative Reader]

operationgururescue and um, you're trying desperately to see GSD in a sympathetic light. He doesn't deserve that sympathy.

If he truly wanted to leave, he could. If he weren't slobbering after the money and power and status his position afford him, he certainly could leave.

Not many have the spine and the integrity to do that. But it can be done. And it has been done. What a certain Jiddu Krishnamurti was able to do, anyone else with integrity and spine can do as well.

[#operationgururescue]

@um

Why do you say “it would be a terrible loss for ALL involved and the communities they live in.” ?

Maybe it would liberate them. All of them.

[um]

@ #operationgururescue

Democracy is not perfect and to get rid of if in order to end the shortcomings of democracy will open the door for what .......???.

What has grown in many generations has to be ended also slowely and naturaly.

These days in west Europe, Christianity is almost disappeared. Most churches and convents have closed their doors, public religious manifestations, like pilgrimages, are no longer to be seen etc. Why? Because the god that was offered by the priests no longer serve an public, social and cultural purpose.

Like monarchies, religions have become an ceremonial institute, to celebrate biirth and death of the people.

[Huckleberry Boonsboro]

Love the way the enlightened psychoanalysis quacks on here are theorizing what GSD thinks or feels about his position as Rssb head. As if any of these unenlightened quacks have even the faintest foggiest of clues as to what life looks like from his perspective.

[um]

@ H. Boonsboro

Have you any idea?
Can you speak for him?
Or is what is written here just not your mental cup of tea?
Are you enlightened?

[Huckleberry Boonsboro]

Hum um.
You lot are totally intent on 'speaking for him', have you ever heard the phrase stfu? Unless you know exactly wtf you're talking about? If not wtf you so enamored with discussing what someone else is thinking or feeling when you don't have the faintest foggiest inkling of what is actually going on either in their lives or thoughts. Analyzing someone else's lives and thought when you can't even fathom your own.

[cybertoothtiger]

@Huckleberry Boonsboro

I’ve known for a long time now that you are GSD (digital footprint).

Just baiting you.

[um]

@ H. Boonsboro

>> Analyzing someone else's lives and thought when you can't even fathom your own.<<

Who is analyzing here who?
How do you know the things you write here about others?

[um]

@ H. Boonsboro

Before I forget:
Grandma, eternal peace be upon her soul, use to say to me: "Listen little man, you can see people's heads, you can not see in them"

She would make us aware of the fact that one could not derive intentions from what is there to be seen.

If a person likes you, he can, as a token of that liking, give you flowers but not all that give you flowers, do like you.

What is discussed here has nothing to do with what is inside a persons head, but what can be seen from the outside, as the things the see, affect their lives, in one way or another.

[#operationleavethegurualone]

@HB

Acknowledged.

[um]

@ AR

Sometimes your use of adjectives tells a story of its own ... :-)).
It speaks of your underlying emotions, sometimes your frustration and even anger .. there is nothing rational about it.... hahaha .. no problem .. nobody is perfect.

I can't remember ever having portrait a guru in anyway. What i hold of him intellectual and emotional, by now you should have understood that, is of no importance.

What I write is about the the role these people have to play. Presidency and president are different things. Also a president has to adapt to the demands of presidency

So it is my understanding of guru-ship in general and that of Beas in particular that theoretical he is free but practical not ... he cannot step down. Gurus and that might be difficult for you to accept are owned by their followers, they are "given" to them and these people are very jealous "lovers" just delve in the history books.

Their role as guru cannot be compared with that of JK.

And ... again, repeating myself again and again, .... feelings like love, respect and also sympathy have no relation whatsoever with DESERVING, they are a free gifts and anybody is free to give out what is his or hers, to whomever he wants, without any justification.

Again AR you find the causes etc for everything you know and do in the outside world. That is why you speak of deserving, deserving based on YOUR interpretations of the actions of OTHERS. It will take a long time before you leave the light in the streets and the markets of this world and enter the house where you are at home and can find peace, peace with yourself, instead of wasting on others.

You see AR , actually I am not interested at all in what GSD does, both as the head of an religious multinational, both as a guru or as a private man.

My considerations are with my own humanity as expressed in the different roles, i am engaged in .... so instead of pondering about the question whether another human being is god, guru or behaving according the law, i ponder about myself, how I came to the path, how I behaved being on the path, what i did with the solemn promises I made etc and how to go forwards after waking up in the midst of the movie.

If I do not like the food in a restaurant, I just find myself another place to eat!!
I am not interested in neither the chef, the staff , the owner and other guest eating there let alone those who write books and colums about food etc.

It is just that simple AR. there is no need to form an opinion on anything outside.

[Sonia]

We have one word for love. But love means so many things. You think you’re a loving person till you find yourself viewing something from another person’s perspective and then your like, wow I have a lot to learn.

I guess we’ll always have a lot to learn till the day we die.

[Appreciative Reader]

Sorry, um, the position you're espousing makes no sense at all to me.

Let's run with the restaurant analogy you've chosen to use, and see what seems amiss here.

You're a foodie, and you wish to find out, and thereafter to frequent, one or more restaurant(s) that serve food that is exquisite (or at least tasty), and wholesome, and that agrees with your own circumstances.

What is your method for doing this? You seem to be saying that you will not discuss these things with other foodies at all. How then? Presumably you'll simply walk the streets, stumbling into random establishments that you happen to find in front of you. And you'll sample their food, and if you like it, you'll stay on, and if not, walk out again?

That's so, so, so entirely inefficient. Even if you've found restaurants that pass muster, you may be missing out on other establishments that offer far better food. And your chances of finding an establishment that is even passably satisfactory, seems wholly random, left to chance.

Surely the far better way would be to reach out to others who share your interest in food, to speak with them IRL, to read books written by them, to listen to lectures where they hold forth on their culinary adventures, and to check out blogs and forums where food and restaurant related discussions are held? That way you'll get leads that you can personally follow up on; and that way you'll also be spared fruitless waste of time going after establishments that everyone agrees serve substandard food.

Sure, the process cannot end with the discussion. That's only the precursor to the real thing. The real thing is the going in and the eating. Only your personal opinion is what ultimately matters to you. Besides, the opinion per se is sterile, pointless, unless it actually leads to your finding out about and frequenting one or more restaurants that you like visiting. But none of that invalidates the importance of discussion to help you to broaden your reach beyond where your random steps take you.

What am I missing, um? Or is it you that is mistaken?

-------

Switching back from analogy to on-point question, you yourself do say that you have no answers, right? So, don't you want answers, if at all those answers can be had? How can you expect to arrive at answers unless you apply yourself, and how will you know where all to apply yourself unless you look around and ask around?

I'm genuinely puzzled about your approach to this.

[Sonia]

@um

I appreciate you sharing the cultural perspective India has for its gurus. Just find that very interesting from a sociological perspective.

Seems no one in their right mind would take on such a role. I guess that’s why they’re “chosen”.

[🌺🌺. -- Become an EX - Exer -- 🌺🌺]

How to become an EX-Exer



It's never to late to demp or destroy upcoming thoughts
in the following way:


F. I.:

The thought of a terrible taliban respons on TV you saw coming up 
or what would the holiday bring U


Replace eeach phrase or word of that with
 one of the 5 words

The fact that these words have no meaning semantic at all

tempers the virtual vision / sound of the taliban stuff

Keep on untill they are all pulverised


Next ( after some practise ) you might be lucky the 5 words
 associating themselves in your brain with a tangible tone 
from the musical scala -
difficult to define as a C, d, e, f, etc 
but you can try to have a conceptual meme in your brain of it

Then Hold to it


At the same time a feel of sweetness or pleasure might come up

what follows is specific as per person

Give it some time - if it seems Holy it might become 'Whole' indeed


Isn t this worth a try for once and stop discussing


I have no experience about the use of other words but 
there might be some value
 there
Like using prayers but real atheists hardly can

 apply that
The solutiabling of thoughts might end them totally 
which is real meditation as opposed to contemplation

To do this seems scientific almost but generate love 
is a better idea
I always wrote that only Love can do this totally


Love is feeling the neeed to be good to other Beings




777


I still stand by my idea of mixing a little drop of
Shabd Dhun into worldly Goose Bmping music

[um]

@ 777

He wrote:
People can certainly attain access to the lord by meditation during their lifetime but .... pay attention 777 .... no doubt, not everybody and no doubt, only with his grace.

And ....

The pull [ be it grace or whatever] must come from within [as a gift] and if it is not there it is just not there, and there is NO-THING you [or anybody else, 777] can do about it.

That 777, is the reality for thousands of people.

[🌺. -- EX - Exer -- 🌺]

@UM

I agree perfectly, . . . . 100%
and also what s in Spiritual Letters "The Mauj has changed"

Like "I feel a Ripple in the Force"

God is dynamic, full of surprises
Before 100 yr I like to predict a little bit what BabaJi cannot say

100% UM

777

[um]

@ 77

>>Before 100 yr I like to predict a little bit what BabaJi cannot say<<

If your predictions are written the way you write here, than it will be difficult to make head or tail of it or as said in Dutch ... wordt het moeilijk, zo niet onmogelijk, om er een touw aan vast te knopen. .... it is cryptology .... :-))

One thing I do know however that both GSD and his uncle never came up with the sort of things, you and Spence come up with.

[Mary - they’re all nuts !]

Gdam it, the randy hotstepper talks more BS then manjit after-ego utshit (both are batshit crazy).

These schmucks are now perving over astral women - I mean gd almighty give me strength. As if earth women are not hot enough.

[Sonia]

@Mary - they’re all nuts!

I guess they’re attracted to astral women because astral women don’t expect anything from them. No nagging or bitching like us earth women. And they stay young…

[Sonia]

And most importantly, astral women don’t get jealous!

[Anonymously]

Some days are so ginormously shitty that you feel the need to make a digital record. Today was one of those days. I would never rant on Facebook (my whole gdam family is on there so I can’t) or any other social media (don’t really use it anyway). But sometimes you just want to scream and scream. But you have to do it quietly and anonymously.

😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

[Still Anonymous]

For some reason, betrayal at work has always bothered me far more than betrayal in personal relationships. As far as my ego is concerned, work is the most important thing in my life. Always has been.

My sane mind knows this is imbalanced and that there are more important things in life. But we always seem to return to our “animal nature” following what your karmic programming dictates.

[😂😂😂]

GSD’s videos are hilarious. He’s like the angriest guru ever. It’s a dark comedy.

[😂😂😂]

He probably schedules his days like this

8:00 serious
9:00 annoyed
10:00 angry
11:00 rage
12:00 wrath
13:00 berating
14:00 scolding
15:00 more scolding
16:00 insulting
17:00 beating
18:00 proud of a good day’s work

[😂😂😂]

He’s like, Meditate Motherfuckers!

[manjit]

@ Marko, S*, Tim, Sonia, Spence - thank you for your very kind words! :)

Hey Marko - hope you're keeping well my brother? :)

@ anonymous "Mary" - you make an excellent point, very well done. I don't think you appreciate how cute and harmless you are. For me to seriously address your position, beliefs and behaviour here would be to totally and brutally eviscerate you with not even the slightest amount of intellectual or emotional effort......and you are simply too cute and harmless to do that to :)

Please, do continue with your wonderful insights into me, mysticism, the RS religion etc, I actually insist....your presence here is a constant reminder or example of the absurdities I highlight in the RS religion, in a tangible way my abstract words cannot match.....

All the best my fellow consciousness-surfers!

[manjit]

@ Marko, S*, Tim, Sonia, Spence - thank you for your very kind words!*

* sorry, Appreciative Reader too, thanks for your generous words.

Apologies for the extra post but didn't want my forgetfulness in very quickly typing the above post to seem like a personal slight, which it wasn't.

[um]

@ Manjit

Is there something that bothers you?
Tasteless coffee, over brewed tea?

[Wake up]

Georgy Porgy (and all of his aliases) is Gurinder Singh Dhillon. I don’t know how long it’s going to take everyone to figure that out.

Just go through and read every comment he’s ever posted and ask yourself, what kind of guru says stuff like that. If he were just another embittered lonely man it would be weird but no where near as weird as a guru of 20 million posting comments like that.

[Sonia]

Every now and then you find yourself in an unexpected set of circumstances that make you see things from a perspective you never had before. Sometimes these are good experiences and sometimes they are bad experiences. Either way they can ultimately have a positive effect if you learn something.

Thursday I had a very bad experience that led to very negative feelings and then to one negative thought after another. Eventually I felt pretty miserable. Then I started asking myself if there is an “all-powerful energy” (or God… whatever you want to call it). And I thought if there is an all powerful being or energy then why did it ever allow suffering. Why did it ever give us the initial free will to do something “bad” or be ignorant? Why didn’t it stop this whole world from happening. If an all powerful being exists then why not exercise that power to end all suffering even if it means we no longer exist in this form?

That question led me to another question which is, what kind of God allows all this if it has the power to stop suffering. Is there a god? Or are we all gods in a sense?

Anyway, at the end of all this disappointment and questioning I realized that I have the power to be happy NOW. And I have the power to be miserable NOW. The point is I have the power, regardless of my circumstances, to view life radically differently. Our thoughts create our reality. We have immense power. We should use it positively.

There is a solution to every problem. There is escape from pain. The biggest mistake we ever make is believing we’re powerless. When we see ourselves as powerless we stop taking responsibility for our thoughts and actions. That’s when we become “victims” (in our minds). But we’re not victims and we’re not powerless.

As I took was walking my dog late this evening, gazing at the full moon I felt very happy realizing how simple it is to change the way you view your circumstances and the people around you. It’s easy in the sense that all you have to do is change your perspective. Just change your thoughts. It’s only difficult if you aren’t willing to change your perspective.

So, I think we might all be gods. ;)

[💕🙏🏻💕 Exciting Consciousness Cult 💕🙏🏻💕]

95% Black Energy/Matter

This is Consciousness
but the 5% we are aware of is also consciousness

777

To see some, stop yr thoughts

[s*]

Nice post Sonia!
I agree that we can change our minds if we want..
Itś very nessesary at moments for me too..
Espcially when we are in a low energie mood..and feel down and heavy..

A walk or do something good what ever it is helps..

<3

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Sonia
You wrote
"There is a solution to every problem. There is escape from pain. The biggest mistake we ever make is believing we’re powerless. When we see ourselves as powerless we stop taking responsibility for our thoughts and actions. That’s when we become “victims” (in our minds). But we’re not victims and we’re not powerless."

Some experience this complete benevolent power as the persona of the Master within themselves.

And they understand this is part of themselves, a very natural and wonderful part, the best part.

This power of love comes to them in this symbol.

The inner Master is sacred for these two reasons alone : First, that this symbol represents the true and unlimited power of love within each of us; Second, our conditioning has wired us to represent this unimaginable power in the very understandable and personal package of the Master.

This is why such a real power will come to people in different symbols, as it should, according to their own conditioning. But it is quite real in all circumstances, however our brain symbolizes it. And yet that conditioning in the brain, which took place without our permission, as part of our conditioning, is quite sacred because it happened naturally.

[Sonia]

Hi Spence,

Spirit guides us. It’s nice. Some call it intuition. Can’t say I agree with worshiping a guru or any other human being. In my personal opinion it just plays into the ego.

A statue of Buddha, a physical guru regarded as GIHF, the symbol of the cross, etc. can easily become hindrances to self growth. Jesus didn’t die for our sins. He taught the power of love and forgiveness but he certainly didn’t die for our sins. God requires no sacrifice. Jesus message was that you are already perfect in God’s eyes.

The Master doesn’t take on your sins either, yet he believes you are sinful.

The statue of Buddha certainly can’t take on your karma either.

We’re only here because of our failure to let go of judgement. The only release from the world comes from the release of judgement upon ourselves and others.

Anyone who chooses to carry the scales chooses to enslave himself.

Fear is the basis of judgement. Teachers who pronounce judgement and preach sacrifice are servants of fear. Fear and the ego rule their judgements and teachings. They believe the only way to control people’s behavior is by instilling them with fear.

Whatever you see within results from your own beliefs. True, a vision of Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha or a Master might give you a sense of peace. But it’s not those people giving you peace, it’s your value of those symbols.

You are complete. You don’t need a Master.

[Sonia 💫]

We’re living in a distant dream.

[emoji Tao Te Ching]

☯️ 🙊

☯️ ----> 🐙 ----> 🐙🐙 ----> 🐙🐙🐙 ---->
🐙🐙🐙🐙🐙(10,000)🐙🐙🐙🐙🐙

🗿💭😎🤙