I now consider that I was a cult member for 35 years

Though for 35 years I was a member of an India-based religious organization headed up by a guru who was considered to be God in Human Form by his devotees, I didn't consider myself to have been in a cult.

But this morning I read these passages in the book I've been writing about recently, Jonathan Rauch's The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth.

Cults -- religious, Marxist, Trumpist, and others -- enmesh their adherents in infinite, impenetrable loops of self-reinforcing beliefs. They encourage and often require their members to isolate themselves from outside ideas and authorities.

...Inside the cultic bubble, every question has an answer, every implausibility an explanation, even if the answer is a change of subject or the explanation that you cannot believe your own eyes and ears.

"Well, damn," I thought, "given this reasonable definition of a cult, it does seem like I was in one." Namely, Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), a branch of Sant Mat (path of the saints, roughly translated).

Here's some reasons why I say that, referencing what Rausch says above.

Impenetrable loops of self-reinforcing beliefs. Here's an example. The guru, being divine, knows what is best for the disciple. That might mean inner progress through meditation that leads to visions of supernatural realms of reality. Or it might mean a lifetime of sitting in darkness and silence during the required several hours of meditation a day.

So whatever happens in meditation fits in with the RSSB teachings. There's no way for the disciple to say "this isn't working," because the guru knows what is supposed to happen to that person, not the person themself. Further, there's a prohibition of telling others about your spiritual progress, or lack thereof. Hence no possibility of learning from other people whether they're getting the promised results.

Isolate themselves from outside ideas and authorities. Faith in the guru is considered a requirement to make progress in meditation. Early on in the current guru's tenure, Gurinder Singh Dhillon said discussing the RSSB teachings on the Internet shouldn't occur. So he told RSSB disciples to isolate themselves from ideas that didn't come from official RSSB sources.

I ended up being fired as a speaker at RSSB meetings because I'd starting writing about RSSB on this blog. The reason that was given was that my blog posts were making people feel uncomfortable. Thus I was viewed as an unwholesome "authority" because I wasn't spouting the party line 100%, even though I'd written several books for RSSB and had been an authorized speaker for many years.

Every implausibility has an explanation. Ask why the RSSB gurus don't perform miracles if they're God in Human Form and you'll be told that the Big Man Upstairs has decreed that saints are forbidden to perform miracles because if they did, lots of people would want to be initiated by them in order to return to God, which would markedly reduce the number of souls in the physical creation, and that isn't supposed to happen. (RSSB believes in reincarnation.)

That's pretty much the same reason why the RSSB gurus forget people's names, make mistakes, get sick, and generally act like Non-Gods in Human Form. They have to disguise their divine nature or everybody on Earth would want to follow them.

What would be wrong with that, you may be thinking. Well, RSSB has the answer. When God created the physical universe, 90% of souls who were hanging out with God were eager to see what physical reality was all about. But 10% had to be dragged kicking and screaming into this universe.

Those 10% are destined to return to God after being initiated by a Perfect Living Master, which the RSSB gurus are despite not appearing perfect. So it's impossible for everybody to be God-realized, because most people on Earth are part of the 90%. OK, but how can you tell the difference between a 90% person and a 10% person? Ah, only the guru can tell. Which is why only some people end up following a RSSB guru, because they're part of the lucky 10%.

I could give more examples. But you get the picture. Of the cult I used to belong to.

Comments

[Truth be told]

Sorry To say Brian you are very much belonging to it. They may have fired you as a speaker but you can’t seem to let go of them it’s all you think and talk about as much as you want to deny it. 🤣

[Brian Hines]

Truth be told, you need to live up to your name. Or change it to "Untruth be told." If you'd bothered to check your facts by looking through my blog posts, you'd see that I rarely write about RSSB -- with the exception being news about Gurinder Singh's financial fraud problem, of which there hasn't been much lately.

Look at the recent posts in the right sidebar. The previous nine weren't about RSSB. Go back further and you'll see the same pattern. I sometimes talk about my 35 years in RSSB because that was almost half my life. And I use RSSB as an example of what's wrong with religion because I know it so well.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian Ji
You wrote
"every question has an answer, every implausibility an explanation, even if the answer is a change of subject or the explanation that you cannot believe your own eyes and ears."

This is true of every community. One controlling lever is the diversity in the group and another is the degree to which both internal and external outreach, exploration and learning are encouraged.

The RSSB I was introduced to, and the culture of RSSB I lived in was vastly different from your description. However, it was also clear that RSSB had, as an international organization, a range of cultures within it.

I was brought into Sant Mat by life long students, physicians, and engineers. My Satsangi pals were cardiologists, genetic engineers and aerospace engineers.

I originally intended to pursue a career in surface physics. But when I realized I was cheating (reporting what I saw for my A grades and not doing the rigorous calculations everyone else nobly toiled to complete) I became interested in meditation research. My Satsangi colleagues encouraged me to apply rigorous science to the subject. We all understood that scientific principles could and should be applied to meditation, and to take our emotions out of it, to apply objectivity.

While my thesis was in meditation research, and I did well in mastering experimental design and statistics I grew tired of that as well. My career became running and developing programs for the disabled. And then after eight years of that I went into hospital operations improvement. You would be surprised how many patients lives are saved simply supervising hand washing between patients.

RSSB culture can be seen in its membership, from so many cultures, bound each by our limitations. But both without and within, when it comes to exploring, to going into any organization, any geography, and learning and connecting wherever we find ourselves, Satsangis are encouraged to expand their understanding, to learn and to grow, and to find friends and teachers in all cultures and within all beliefs. The Truth that lives you, lives in me. And we are both here to learn more about that.

The Masters have said repeatedly that we are not to isolate ourselves, but to live in the world while pursuing our inner work.

That doesn't mean you won't find cultural limitations in different parts of the world, but in a life of contemplation it is our own limitations and prejudices that we can do something about, and are naturally drawn to address, when we cease reacting to the world momentarily. Thart practice is healthy and not limited to RSSB. Atheists can also practice it to good effect.

[um]

[1] alle words and everything that can be constructed with it, are "bubbles"
With these bubbles all human social and cultural activities are described ... these are the games people play, whether politics, religion or whatever even football.

Inside the cultic [CULTURAL] bubble, every question has an answer, every implausibility an explanation, even if the answer is a change of subject or the explanation that you cannot believe your own eyes and ears.

[2] Jamun and his dear and beloved friends had an different approach. His friends, mind you the best friends on can wish to have, looked the young lady [the teacher] and her qualities [teachings and behavior] and were of the opinion that love, respect etc had to be DESERVED. Jamun on the other hand was looking inside, the treasure that was his, his love, devotion and faith .... all FREE to give away.

[3] Those who have faith in God etc, and go to a church to pray there in gratitude or for grace, are not interested in the affairs of the hierarchy of priests and the organisation they represent. Those who lack that faith will be aware of the actions of the priest class. For them religion is nothing more that what they see.

[4] Those who have little or nothing of themselves in their own heart, cannot but look upon the outside world as the cause for their feelings and thoughts.

[5] Paul said that one can have everything but if love is lacking, or faith or devotion etc, all things remain empty as a drum.

[6] If love, devotion etc is not there, there is nothing one can do but to accept it as natures gift.... there is nothing one can do ... what is not there is just not there.

[7] Love, devotion, etc are all needed as fuel. and without it or of poor quality nothing goes.

[8] On complaining the lack of results before a guru from another branch of Sant mat, and the effect it seemed to have on my faith he answered well brother ... have you ever considered the possibility that there was never a trace of faith to begin with. I am grateful to this man, he opened my eyes for my own role and that there was nothing and nobody to blame. There and then I came to understand what "outsourcing of personal responsibilities" mean.

And of course ... whatever is found wrong in Beas after 1990, is wrong ... but ... what realy matters is how to deal with it.

[Truth be told]

Brian like I said “as much as you try to deny it”
Exactly what you are doing. 🤔

[Brian Hines]

Truth be told, I'm not trying to deny thinking about RSSB all the time, I AM denying it. Hey, I'm me. You're you. I know me a lot better than you know me.

Take a look at my other two blogs. No mentions of RSSB. Follow me around all day in your invisibility cloak. No mentions of RSSB. Get inside my brain via your mystical powers. No mentions of RSSB.

The only time I think about RSSB is when I occasionally write something on this blog that benefits from me recounting my 35 years of experience with RSSB.

Glad to set you straight. That's what we do here at the Church of the Churchless -- help people to see reality clearly, not through cloudy religious eyes.

[Truth be told]

Brian wow hit a nerve did I? Wonder why????

[Brian Hines]

Why? Because I find untruthful trolls like you really irritating. So it makes me happy to point out your lying crap. Thanks for bringing me joy today.

[Spence Tepper]

Truth Be Told
Try to understand Brian Ji's experience. It's real.
It isn't a universal experience of RSSB. But it definitely reflects an experience many here have echoed.

If Brian ji, seeing the definition of a cult, feels that fits his own experience, then why try to psychoanalyze or explain it in terms comfortable and convenient for you?

His experience does not need to be categorized and packaged in a way that leaves our own beliefs intact. Doing that is just self - justification.

Brian may not be able to prove to anyone else the reality of his experience. However here others have shared similar experiences of RSSB.

But we can all respect it, just as we respect our own.

There may be one objective reality. But there are infinite subjective realities. That's actually quite a wonderful thing.

You may see it as a weakness. I see our as a shining strength.

Brian Ji has a remarkable crap detector, nearly flawless.

[Truth be told]

Spence I am not commenting on his experience( that is his own and I have no idea what it is) I am merely commenting on the fact that he titled his post says he “was” and I am saying he very much thinks and talks of RSSB all the time as much as he doesn’t want to accept that. So they let go of him but he did not let go of them. That’s all pretty simple but I guess not what he wants to hear at all. 🤷🏻‍♀️Struck a nerve

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Truth Be Told
Struck a nerve is no verification. "I hurt you." or "I got a reaction out of you" is not anything to be proud of.

When I was in graduate school in experimental Psychology a lot of students were doing terrible things to lab rats, to get their thesis. Stuff that required permanent brain damage with implanted electrodes. "Look I struck a nerve, didn't I little fella?" Nothing to be proud of.

There were and are better ways to find things out.

Brian spent decades devoting himself to RSSB, in service to Gurinder. He has earned the right to his opinion.

The famous Basketball player, Bill Russell used to tell this story about his dad. When Russell became famous he went to his father and said, "Dad, you've worked at a terrible job in a terrible company for your whole life. You don't need to keep doing it! I've got money now. You can quit!"

His father replied, "Yes son. You are right. But I'm not quitting. I've given this company the best years of my life. And God damn it, they are going to get some of the worst!"

[Dungeness]

@ Brian Ji : There's no way for the disciple to say "this isn't working," because the guru knows what is supposed to happen to that person, not the person themself. Further, there's a prohibition of telling others about your spiritual progress, or lack thereof.

I think these binary seeming taboos are more nuanced than that.
Of course, the disciple can and must recognize when something
isn't working. The multitudes complaining at Q&A's attest to it.
But the mastery of stillness/attention is necessarily slow and
painstaking according to mystics. Reportedly, taking decades
even or lifetimes in some cases.

If there's a perceived better practice though, the true mystic will
encourage adopting it and returning to share the good news.
Great Master advised Ishwar Puri to do that in fact and he wasn't
simply being disingenuous in my opinion. Ishwar did try dozens
of practices subsequently. Also, clearly Ishwar (and others even
on blogs) break hallowed "rules" about relating spiritual progress.
Like so many things, there's a time and place to ignore them.

[Osho Robbins]

@ Truth be told
you wrote "Sorry To say Brian you are very much belonging to it. They may have fired you as a speaker but you can’t seem to let go of them it’s all you think and talk about as much as you want to deny it."

Then when Brian set the record straight - you rejoice and say "Hit a nerve, did I?"

This is just juvenile. Brian knows himself much better than you unless of course you profess the gift of "all-knowingness"

A person can show an interest in a subject, enough to discuss it. It does not mean they follow it - they know that much better than you.

What gives you the authority to make baseless statements and then accuse them of not facing the truth.

Just like Brian, I was also a speaker, and I even attend their events from time to time and even engage in Q&A and lengthy discussions with the current guru. I don't however follow the cult. I am not dead against it - I just think it doesn't lead to the goal. I point out what I see - for instance I wrote a few years ago about seva - that ordering people about is not seva. Then after that I was actually physically assaulted in the name of seva. I described the incident in detail on here. Now to take that and make your own conclusions about it - like you have done in Brian's case - is inaccurate and pointless.
You are entitled to your own opinion and can believe whatever you choose - however - you are not entitled to your own facts. Obviously Brian knows the truth much better than you since the subject is Brian.

[Spence Tepper]

"every question has an answer, every implausibility an explanation, even if the answer is a change of subject or the explanation that you cannot believe your own eyes and ears."

I do hear that now and then, though not from Satsangis. I hear this mostly from Atheists.

And where is the cult?

;)

[Sonia]

Brian,

All valid points you’ve made. Thank you. 🙂

[Sonia]

I think RSSB is flawed at a fundamental level despite the “fact” that so many of their teachings parallel the truth. It’s like they got 90% of it right and 10% (the most important part) really, really wrong.

[Sonia]

Fundamentally flawed beliefs of RSSB:

God has “chosen ones”

God appointed the devil to decide who gets to go to heaven.

God can be “contained” in flesh and blood.

God sent souls to this realm to suffer just for the heck of it.

God ordains karma and suffering.

God is so far away from us that we have to sit in meditation 2.5 hours per day lifetime/s to get back in his good graces.

[Sonia]

Ironically the whole concept of “God” was created by the negative power (ego/Kal). There isn’t a “God” there’s just a Spirit. The Spirit has no dealings with the negative power and the Spirit doesn’t rule over anyone or anything. It’s just there—easily accessible to anyone/any being that finally realizes how limiting the belief in a god is.

You have to stop believing in a God to understand Spirit. And Spirit is Love. It doesn’t make or cause us to do anything. But the ego/negative power is just the opposite.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Sonia
If you can access that light, vision, insight and bliss in seconds more power to you! Right on!

Personally I'd stay there if I could.

But if it takes 2.5 hours, heck if it takes all day to get there, well, same thing. It's like mining bitcoin, all to your credit, just be there and watch the cash roll in. And a wealth that is also the best meal with the best friend on earth.. A meal at the restaurant ar the edge of the galexy!

[Tendzin]

Is RSSB a cult?

1." Impenetrable loops of self-reinforcing beliefs. Here's an example. The guru, being divine, knows what is best for the disciple."

This isn't totally accurate. a) Gurinder has gone on record in his Q&A talks that RSSB, and even sant mat, aren't the only way to God. b) No one has ever been excommunicated from RSSB, or declared a heretic, or punished for heterodox beliefs.

I think the prohibition against telling others of your spiritual experiences is a valid criticism, although there is another most positive side to this prohibition.

The most glaring prohibition in RSSB is one that isn't mentioned here: the taboo against sharing the meditation technique with non-initiates. This presumes that the sant mat guru and his organization literally own the meditation technique.

2. "Isolate themselves from outside ideas and authorities."

This may have been marginally true for a brief period of time 20 years ago. That was when the internet was a wild west and the possibility of endless "rssb sites" full of nonsense was all over the internet. I can see both sides of this issue, as as much as I loathe censorship in any form, I can't fault Gurinder for his internet regulations. This is for several reasons: a) Virtually every organization in the world has some kind of standards for how its members use the internet for communication. b) Again, no member of RSSB who did violate the "internet ban" was ever punished by RSSB or castigated by Gurinder. c) This very blog banned people for saying anything heterodox about the opinions of Dr. "I am science" and his fellow travelers. So we all have our own ideas about who has authority, what are "outside ideas," and what we should allow other people to read and say.

3. "Every implausibility has an explanation." That's a valid criticism of sant mat and the lawyerly rebuttals of Charan, Gurinder, and the SOS gurus. On the other hand, the same criticism could be leveled at the apologists of just about any religion. So they're all cults. And again, they can also be leveled at extremely high profile doctors who say "when you disagree with me you disagree with science," or at political leaders on both sides of the current civil cold war our country is embroiled in.

From that, I guess we can conclude that cults are everywhere, or that "cult" is a largely pejorative term that has limited usefulness in actually describing epistemic disfunction.

[Dungeness]

@ Tendzin : "Every implausibility has an explanation." ... they can also be leveled at extremely high profile doctors who say "when you disagree with me you disagree with science," ... From that, I guess we can conclude that cults are everywhere, or that "cult" is a largely pejorative term that has limited usefulness in actually describing epistemic dysfunction.

Well put. As some have remarked, more accurately than not,
"science is the new religion".

[Sonia]

I’m starting to think that anyone who completely identifies with every single belief of a single group (religious, political, philosophical, etc.) is like having a cult mindset. We all want to belong but in reality every type of group has a little truth and a little untruth. Obviously, some are more on target with what’s healthier than others, and there are a few that are so far from center that they’re dangerous.

We should think critically about each individual belief and not blindly buy into the entire belief system of any one group. But no need to completely discount your brother/neighbor/friend’s opinions and beliefs either. Everyone has the right to their own opinions as long as their opinions don’t lead to actions that cause harm to others. Probably best to decide which particular thoughts, ideas or beliefs you agree with and which ones you don’t.

Not a fan of club membership. Not at all.

The all or nothing mindset is rather culty.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Sonia
You wrote
"The all or nothing mindset is rather culty."

I like that. The "All" part makes perfect sense. Blind belief of every statement in a system sounds culty.. Belief without actual understanding or critical evaluation.

But what about the "nothing" part?
Is that also a culty personality?
The personality that cannot accept anything at all about a different system of belief, that must reject all of it, even to the extent of exaggerating things just to disagree.

I think it may be culty also, in whatever system leads one to view another system this way.

"The all or nothing mindset is rather culty."

I like it.

[Dungeness]

@ Sonia : "Probably best to decide which particular thoughts, ideas or beliefs you agree with and which ones you don’t."

And then re-examine as more evidence comes...

@ Sonia : "Not a fan of club membership. Not at all."

"I don't want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members." --Groucho Marx

[lifeisfairshouldbepulled]

Life is Fair should be pulled from the Beas list of books, since Brian wouldn't want that book to be bait for
luring others in a cult that he has extricated himself out of for decades.

[Spence Tepper]

Why? All of Brian's books are classics.
That's like asking a church book store to stop selling the works of Plato.

Plato might not agree with Church doctrine, or vice versa. But it is to the credit of both that they sell the book even to this day.

[lifeisfairshouldbepulled]

If one believes that they were in a cult, it stands to reason that they would not want to be a catalyst for bringing them into that same cult, especially if that very text was a tipping point for that seeker.

It isn't a credit to lead one to a cult that one has been freed from.

[Sirika]

Radha Soami is fake, whether it's a cult or religion or a club of brainwashed people, call it whatever you want, the fact is that Gurinder isn't god in human form. If he was for real, he wouldn't have fraudulently amassed hundreds of millions of dollars in his and his family's name.

I was an avid follower for many many years, but thanks in part to this site I gradually came out of my brainwashed state of mind. The last time I saw Gurinder in Petaluma (in 2019), I was still a bit on the fence, but I had to walk out in the middle of the session because as I heard him speak, I became convinced that he was just putting on a show, and just couldn't stand him anymore. I've watched a couple of his recent pandemic-era YouTube videos, and I now cringe every time I hear him speak.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

[Bold]Impenetrable loops of self-reinforcing beliefs.[/Bold] Here's an example. The guru, being divine, knows what is best for the disciple. That might mean inner progress through meditation that leads to visions of supernatural realms of reality. Or it might mean a lifetime of sitting in darkness and silence during the required several hours of meditation a day.

So whatever happens in meditation fits in with the RSSB teachings. There's no way for the disciple to say "this isn't working," because the guru knows what is supposed to happen to that person, not the person themself. Further, there's a prohibition of telling others about your spiritual progress, or lack thereof. Hence no possibility of learning from other people whether they're getting the promised results.

I would love to address this along with the other two 'in bold' statements you've mentioned in favor or RSSB being a cult. But in contrast to the philosophy you've volunteered, I think there's something you left out.

Plus, I don't see any quotes, references, nor links to back up your statements. But I have one, hopefully you won't block my post again or say that's contrary to subject matter:

"..So my advice to you is to study the literature (on RSSB - Sant Mat) for some time every day and give more time to concentrated meditation so that you may SEE the reality WITHIN for yourself. Then all doubts will vanish.."
-Maharaj Ji Charan Singh Grewal, Divine Light, pg 270 letter 218., 7th Ed. 1996