« Salem Gay Pride speaker has a lesson for atheists | Main | No, communion isn't about the body and blood of Jesus »

June 21, 2021


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

If you see a green dragons every day, the stars and moon within, and in your experience they are undeniable, reliable, and you can test for that, just as you might test the stability of the floor, or the ability of your television to turn on when you press the controller, regardless of the time of day, your mood or condition, then it is something real for you.

That is a real part of your experience.

For anyone to say "Green dragons, fairies, inner experiences aren't real" is also correct, if they have no exposure to these things.

They are in no condition to comment, unless they have scientifically tested your experience, or refer to real research that has. In which case they may learn some things, just as we have about meditation research, or research that demonstrates the healthy benefits of going to church (you will live a few years longer), or even the benefits of exercise, even if they personally don't exercise.

But it is dangerous for anyone to conclude they have the actual science when they are referring to scientific results that are actually testing something altogether different. If they haven't tested for the perception of dragons, then they have no data. And it is an abuse of science to claim so.

It's not scientific or even a scientific world view. It's selection bias of information supporting their system of belief, not letting a full investigation of research paint the actual picture in context.

Claims are not non-existent. The claim exists. What remains for science to confirm is can its effect be tested? In the case of belief in God the answer is yes. It has been tested, and the effects are positive.

In the case of inner visions, or Out of Body experiences again, the physiological reactions are there. And at a minimum this is a physiological reality worthy of exploration.

The tendency to say "I don't believe you" without an open minded investigation, and an acknowledgement that this is the actual sincere experience of others, is a form of provincial thinking.

Atheists have used these false arguments to defend their belief in no God. But it is entirely unnecessary. No one is forcing them to believe anything. They may be right.

The issue of the Atheists argument against God, which are largely false and selection - biased arguments, is to discredit and dismiss the experiences of others.

It's one thing to say "I respect what you say as your experience, and I'd be interested to know more about the effects and causes of that experience."

It is another to say "You are hallucinating, your not being real, you aren't seeing reality like I am."

That's not science. It's childish. The playground of the cynic.

1. a person who believes that people are motivated purely by self-interest rather than acting for honorable or unselfish reasons.
"some cynics thought that the controversy was all a publicity stunt"

No where is this clearer than when someone hurls this sort of argument at another who believes differently than they do, and defends with selected evidence their particular opinion, and does not acknowledge any hard evidence presented by the alternative view.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.