I speak from experience as a lapsed Catholic when I say that communion involves swallowing a wafer and some wine, not the body and blood of Jesus.
OK, that experience was brief, since after I had my first communion, thankfully my mother let me decide whether to continue on to be confirmed as a Catholic -- which I definitely didn't want to do, since the black-clad nuns were scary, the mass was in Latin, the wood we had to kneel on was damn hard, and my Presbyterian boyhood friends got to enjoy their more pleasant Sunday School while I was listening to a priest drone on in a language I couldn't understand.
The thing with religions is, they all seem really weird to anyone who isn't a believer in that particular faith, while to those who embrace a religion, mostly it makes great good sense to them.
So as difficult as it is for me to recall in my current atheist frame of mind, for 35 years I was a member of an India-based religion led by a guru who was considered to be God in Human Form. Yeah, that's weird.
Equally weird were the teachings that the guru planted his "radiant form" in the consciousness of the disciple at the time of initiation; that radiant form guided the disciple all the way back to God; the reason initiation was necessary was because the Eastern equivalent of the Devil had stood on one supernatural leg for like forever, earning him a gift from God to keep souls trapped in this physical world where he could control them until a God in Human Form rescued some of them; and a whole lot of other strange stuff besides.
Which means, I used to accept religious teachings that equaled or surpassed the dogmas of Catholicism when it came to difficult-to-believe'ness. (I didn't really believe in all of them, yet I overlooked the most bizarre teachings in order to embrace the more reasonable ones.)
But now I'm a critic of that Eastern religion, and so feel comfortable also being a critic of Catholicism. Which is why I read an opinion piece in USA Today, um, today, called "Catholic truth on Communion belongs in public square."
Download Catholic truth on Communion belongs in public square - USA TODAY
I could tell from the title that I wasn't going to agree with it. Prediction fulfilled!
The woman who wrote the piece, Katrina Trinko, says that it is perfectly fine that bishops are laying the doctrinal groundwork for President Biden, a devout Catholic, to be denied communion because he favors abortion rights.
For some reason the bishops aren't going after the many Catholic Republican politicians who favor capital punishment, which also is a Catholic no-no.
Trinko is upset that so many Catholics don't accept everything that their religion says is true -- a quality that endears me to those independently-minded people.
But as a Catholic, I’ve been stupefied by the news coverage and punditry, which lacks awareness of what the Catholic Church teaches, what the Eucharist is and, yes, what it means to be a practicing Catholic.
In a way, I’m not surprised. Polls regularly show a gulf between the values of many American Catholics and the teachings of the Catholic Church. For instance, more than two-thirds of American Catholics support legalized samesex marriage, according to a 2020 Gallup survey. Fifty-six percent of American Catholics agree with Biden and Pelosi, backing abortion being legal in most or all cases, per a 2019 Pew Research Center survey.
And when it comes to the Eucharist, plenty of Catholics aren’t even aware what the Church teaches, namely that the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus. Only half of Catholics know what the Church teaches, according to a 2019 Pew Research Center poll, which also found that 69% of American Catholics don’t believe the Eucharist is the real presence of Jesus.
Well, duh, of course the Eucharist -- the supposed transformation of bread and wine into Jesus' body and blood -- isn't real. It's just bread and wine. In fact, there's no persuasive evidence that Jesus even existed, much less that he was a divine being.
Yet the urge to believe in unbelievable stuff runs deep in the human mind. Thousands of years of cultural indoctrination in religious mumbo-jumbo has caused the brains of billions of people to embrace dogmas that make no sense and have no basis in fact.
Again, I've been there and done that.
The guru who initiated me way back when in 1971 would bless food that then became sacred to his followers. Occasionally people would bring some of it back to this country after seeing the guru in India.
Then they might share it with other disciples. I recall the time I got a small bag of guru-blessed treats (could have been rice cereal; can't remember exactly). Before I meditated I'd carefully pick out two or three bits of whatever it was and savor it as the mystical treat I believed it to be.
If I dropped some on the floor, no problem. I still ate it.
This wasn't like believing that the blessed food was the body and blood of the guru, but it was close, since we initiates of the guru considered that somehow the food contained the guru's essence.
I'm glad to have given up that idea, along with the other crazy stuff I used to accept. Hopefully someday many more that 69% of American Catholics will stop believing that what's consumed at communion is the real presence of Jesus.
This was one of the most entertaining posts I’ve read.
You really bring it home with this:
“Equally weird were the teachings that the guru planted his "radiant form" in the consciousness of the disciple at the time of initiation; that radiant form guided the disciple all the way back to God; the reason initiation was necessary was because the Eastern equivalent of the Devil had stood on one supernatural leg for like forever, earning him a gift from God to keep souls trapped in this physical world where he could control them until a God in Human Form rescued some of them; and a whole lot of other strange stuff besides.”
I mean, when you put it like that, it’s not just weird it’s totally mental. Why would anyone choose to worship a god like that?
Stilling the mind (any form of meditation) only increases awareness. But the awareness that it increases depends largely on the individual’s chosen values and beliefs. So, meditation usually and mostly reconfirms ones already fixed set of beliefs.
I guess the important thing to remember here is, you have a choice—you don’t have to accept or believe in any person or god that creates arbitrary, nonsensical, sadistic rules.
Posted by: Sonia | June 23, 2021 at 11:00 PM
Unfortunately, almost all people, religious or not, equate god with judgement. The human mind has an almost impossible time separating the two concepts. Why would something “all-powerful” allow suffering? Well, that’s to assume that god is something more than just an energy of peace. The energy of peace is at the core of who we are. We just have to find it. We have the power to do that. No one (not even “god”) can make you choose to find the peace within you. We have separate minds. We also have a lot more personal power than we realize—no need to hand that over to the clergy or anyone else for that matter.
I’m beginning to believe that peace is a much deeper expression of love. And that’s the benefit of just being still and giving your mind a rest.
Posted by: Sonia | June 23, 2021 at 11:15 PM
Peace is truly the deepest expression of love.
Posted by: Sonia | June 23, 2021 at 11:31 PM
@ Brian Ji: "This wasn't like believing that the blessed food was the body and blood of the guru, but it was close, since we initiates of the guru considered that somehow the food contained the guru's essence."
Hm, I think RSSB followers sip the Catholic Kool-Aid at times. The
Catholic "body and blood" was likely a metaphor in the beginning
before religion literalized it as so often happens. Similarly, rssb
mystics make clear that blessing food doesn't change molecular
content. The magic is the object's association with a beloved
figure or guru.
In the early stages, the connection is very tenuous and the guru is
arguably only a well spoken stage actor. But as experience with the
practice increases, the meaning of the "guru's essence" becomes
clearer. The "body and blood" of the physical form are symbols for
a transformational magic that happens within.
Posted by: Dungeness | June 23, 2021 at 11:45 PM
If one becomes aware of the fact that one cannot [longer] believe or accept what is right an wrong, as what the majority tbelieves and considers right and wrong, especially when believing or non believing and accepting and non accepting what others consider right and wrong, has severe social consequences, ....then ..... one certainly has a problem.
The strategy that has often been taken to solve the problem, a strategy that often works with children, young adults, is to persuade others in one way or another to do the same as they do. We all recall from our youth how so called "friends" pressed us to smoke, drink and use drugs. The same tricks they used in those days are now used by the representatives of the minorities in terms of feeling bad about yourself if you do not follow them.
For years I have pondered why would they give so much time and effort from themselves to persuade others to act and believe as they do. Finally it dawned to me that what they are doing is trying to restore in themselves the lost feeling of "normality" because a growing number of sameness restores the feeling of "normality".
These days the extremities of the Gauss curve are in the center of the media and demand to be treated as normal and by doing so they not only refind that feeling of "normality" for themselves but they also suppress the majority to express their feelings and thoughts. So more and more people start to express "political or minority correct"' talk for fear of the social consequences, to be put away as ..... you name it.
Just compare it with what has happened in China, those that revolted against the feudal regime, now are even worst than their previous masters in terms of being controlled by them, being told what to think and believe.
Posted by: um | June 24, 2021 at 02:00 AM
@ Sonia
People stand in need of a theory that explains for them the facts of life.
All cultures have at least one theory, that explains those facts that they themselves cannot explain.Religion is a cultural thing and it expresses the thoughts and feelings of people in a given place and time.
Irrespective of the source of an religion, all religions speak the language of a given, time, place and culture. History tells us that many religions, once favored and thought to be eternal, just disappeared.
So if there would be and abraham , mozes or Christ today, they would address other issues and other concepts then in those days.
All over the world, due to the raise of the Internet, the globalization of information, it has become more and more difficult for religions to stay alive as THE only truth and people become more and more aware of regional cultural coverings.
To uphold that a regional religion, and they are all regional, is universal, becomes more and more difficult so much so that those who have difficulty to let go will use terror to force others to accept it.
For a while there will be a clash between the extreme believers and unbelievers and a fight among religions in the effort as to which religion is to be seen as universal.
Yet .... the need for a theory that explains the facts of life that are not understood will remain. So a fight among representatives of theories will also be to be witnessed.....people using science for it.
Posted by: um | June 24, 2021 at 03:10 AM
Belief is an interesting phenomenon. We are all born without beliefs and then - depending on the cultures we are brought up with - we are simply indoctrinated with these particular beliefs.
I wonder if beliefs are necessary. I suppose they give a certain comfort and security though they often create confusion and anxiety as beliefs are very fragile and even transitory. Perhaps also they provide meaning - as if the amazing world around us is not full of meaning in its own right - before we impose our limited conceptual 'meanings' upon it.
Posted by: Ron Elloway | June 24, 2021 at 05:14 AM
#Ron
isn't "Do no harm" enough?
7
Posted by: 7 | June 24, 2021 at 05:39 AM
@ Ron
Whatever you do is ... believing that!!!
If you take a plane, you believe that ....?!
If you eat, you believe that ...?!
If you go on holliday, you believe that ...?!
Nothing you do can be done without believing something.
Believing is creating an stronghold in the future towards you pull yourself.
religious beliefs are just a tiny part of this intricate mechanism.
Posted by: um | June 24, 2021 at 06:44 AM
@ Ron
And Ron .... I just receive message from a nice that lives elsewhere in Europe, that she in due time will give birth to another child.
Just reflect for a moment what all "believe" influences in the days and weeks to come for the parents, the family as a whole and for the expected new human being.
From the way she presented the message to her uncle it can be understood that she believes that all will develop well, that she will pass her days in joyous expectation, etc etc etc. there is no end to the believes with which a new born human will be surrounded even from before birth.
And that it matters what quality these believes have. The pictures she sent with messages from her first born, and the flowers in her garden, one can detect that she believes it will all be that joyous as expressed in the pictures.
That is the same with religious believes, they can be uplifting and depressing, being a help and a millstone around ones neck.
Believes and also religious believes are as tools ... it all depends how they are handled by this or that person, the intentions etc etc.
Posted by: um | June 24, 2021 at 08:16 AM
Unless we understand the meaning and the internal reality of people's practices, how can we judge them?
If you can't see God in every Pringles and His blood in every Dr. Pepper I pity you.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 24, 2021 at 10:17 AM
Well, the way I see things is much simpler, Spence. If you can't see Pringles as Pringles and Dr. Pepper as Dr. Pepper without bringing God into the seeing, I pity you. Because you're not seeing reality as it is, but with an unnecessary layer of religiosity layered over it.
Posted by: Brian Hines | June 24, 2021 at 11:58 AM
Ah Brian ji
There is more to a Pringles than the eye and the tongue reveal....
Unless you take a little more time to really taste the Pringle. To quiet the mind and understand what lay in your palm.
Within the Pringle and the Dr. Pepper are the very elements of life...A good, patient scientist knows that. And you and the Pringle, and the sparkly Dr. Pepper are all connected.
As for pity, I accept your pity. My condition is pitiful. But it is the human condition.
The problem Brian Ji is not what you see. It's understanding what the other person sees in enough depth to appreciate the truth in it.
"I don't like that man. I need to get to know him better."
Lincoln
Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 24, 2021 at 12:46 PM
As for the larger issue of abortion, which is really the actual subject in front of this context of religion being politicized... The situation of the woman, her entire connection, the events that led up to this, the other players, the events to follow, place her in a limited role. It's absolutely wrong to intervene and limit her choices even further. Yes there are lives to consider, but the first and foremost is and will always be, for all ages until our species ceases to exist, the divine role and absolute Truth of the woman's free choice.
If anything is sacred, on earth or in heaven, it is that choice, whatever it must be.
If we are so determined to defend an unborn life, let us first prove ourselves capable of defending to the death, the life already born, struggling to be free. Free to choose, free up pick a direction and own that.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 24, 2021 at 01:12 PM
Typo... Sorry
"Free to choose a direction and own that."
Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 24, 2021 at 01:15 PM
@um
I liked what you said in your comment about all religions being regionalized. So true.
Posted by: Sonia | June 24, 2021 at 10:21 PM
“Thoughts are things”
It’s been said so often that meaning gets lost. I think it conveys many important things. It reminds me that no action takes place without a thought. The thought comes first. That’s why I don’t agree with the teaching that that’s don’t create karma. And I view karma as simply cause and effect. So, to me, saying “thoughts don’t create karma” is like saying thoughts don’t create actions and thoughts don’t have effects. Simply not true.
You can test this out by spending a day worrying about everything that could possibly go wrong in your life or feeling sorry for yourself. Then wait and see how you feel physically the next day. Your energy and enthusiasm will be down and that will naturally effect your the actions you take. You might even feel sick, get an ulcer, come down with a cold. Personally, I agree with the mind-body theory.
Not sure what I think about the Pringles-Dr. Pepper theory. 😂
Posted by: Sonia | June 24, 2021 at 10:31 PM
Pringles are like dehydrated flakes of potatoes (and I’m very suspicious of their claim to have actual potato ingredients). You can’t eat just one even though you can’t tell what the hell you’re even eating. And Dr. Pepper? What is that supposed to taste like? The flavor is a mystery (I remember from occasionally drinking it as a child). But as a child you’ll put anything in your mouth that has sugar in it—especially if your parents tell you it’s not good for you.
Posted by: Sonia | June 24, 2021 at 10:44 PM
RSSB and the clown GSD, aka Lucifer, boasts no rituals. Yet the hypocrite GSD prays on parshad and dishes it out to his chosen ones. This solidifies their bond and inflates ego - isnt this just saying spells on food a kind of witch craft !!! These are mind games played by donkey dhillon as he knows exactly how to keep the prime influencers sweet, who in turn are followed by the mass sevadar sheep. Hes hell bent on building a world of sheepish sevadar. A world where he and the hidden power can rule as a god. Look at history , you will see how sociopathic people do anything to rule the world. This bent baba of beas is trying to take over by love love love of him, and his god, Lucifer, and we all know how toxic love relationships can completely destroy your life.
Posted by: Uchit | June 25, 2021 at 03:07 PM
Hi Sonia
The impressions, or Sanskaras, are what is referred to as Karma:
Whatever creates grooves, impressions. Most thoughts that flow in their unending sequence are disconnected like heat from an engine. They have no lasting effect on our stream of actions, arising from the same deeper impressions. The impressions are already there, so no new karma is created experiencing those thoughts consciously.
Say you watch something and it traumatizes you. You have been scarred. Is that new karma or old? You have a new scar? Or did the trauma uncover an old one? The whole event arose from the past. Including your reaction. You lived through war! The whole war was prescripted.
Did you know that animals don't create Karma? They go through so much, so much emotion. So much pain, violence, and trauma. And fleeting moments of joy. Moments of Springtime. But they are all ripples on the pond. They didn't throw the stone.
Human beings create Karma. Or do they? When here it's really hard to say how much, if any, really. Acting or reacting?
Let's really act and not react! Let's do our best. Let's create an environment for positive action, and not harmful reaction. We may still not be creating anything new, any new Karma. But we can make the world of our thoughts a pleasant place. And who knows, maybe those around us will get a moment's respite from our own momentary withdrawal from relentlessly being ourselves.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 25, 2021 at 03:49 PM
um. You're really talking here about hopes and expectations - although one can call them beliefs - but their not. Brian's blog is referring to beliefs as opposed to reality, such as believing this biscuit is Christ's body or if I believe in a particular god I'll be saved.
Posted by: Ron Elloway | June 26, 2021 at 09:38 AM
GSD is the very reason for many a human being not being able to free themselves from this lying little leech.
Who lays down false doctrines and beliefs on the world and forces them through his religious cult.
GSD hasn't much of anything to offer so cooking up a cult with many a malicious ways and altering it all along to fit his new lavish lifestyle of corruption and greed was his only way out.
Not forgetting his slight of the hand for so many criminal activities .
The parsad thing is just to make the sheep feel happy for they're free seva which GSD so quietly adores behind closed doors.
"Fool them to do your dirty laundry as they say"
Nice pulling of the wool over your eyes!
"They say the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"
But in reality this little Devil GSD is staring you in your face, and that too in plain sight!!!
Wakey Wakey everyone
Posted by: Manoj | June 26, 2021 at 09:54 AM
@ Ron
There is much more to believing than, not believing and religious belief.
Maybe you should read W. James' "The will to believe". It is certainly to be found as PDF.
He deals with "believe" as an psychological tool.
Posted by: um | June 26, 2021 at 10:58 AM
No, communion isn't about the body and blood of Jesus
Self proclaimed god men like GSD are the very reason for many a human being not being able to free themselves from these lying little leaches.
Who lay down false doctrines and beliefs on the world and force them through they're religious cults.
GSD hasn't much of anything to offer so cooking up a cult with many a malicious ways and altering it all along to fit his new lavis lifestyle of corruption and greed was his only way.
Not forgetting his slight of the hand for so many criminal activities .
The parsad thing is just to make the sheep feel happy for they're free seva which GSD so quietly adores behind closed doors.
"Fool them to do your dirty laundry as they say"
Nice pulling of the wool over your eyes!
"They say the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"
But in reality this little Devil GSD is staring you in your face, and that too in plain sight!!!
Wakey Wakey everyone
Posted by: Manoj | June 26, 2021 at 03:11 PM
Sharing a link on spiritual discourses
https://divine-order.wixsite.com/beyond-self/discourses
Posted by: Solomon | June 26, 2021 at 07:24 PM
There are a lot of moving parts to this topic. The larger context is that Joe Biden is encouraging abortion, and that's the reason why some of the bishops of his church want to deny him communion.
For those Catholics who believe life begins in the womb, the value of the eucharist (or rather, the withholding of the eucharist) is that it encourages moral values, like respect for the lives of the unborn. In that context, the eucharist may be mumbo-jumbo that yet has undeniable value in upholding human values by pressuring the leader of the free world to do more than play faithful Catholic.
So even mumbo-jumbo has real value in the right context.
Posted by: Tendzin | June 26, 2021 at 08:14 PM
Hi Solomon,
Thanks for sharing that link. Very beautiful. 😊
Posted by: Sonia | June 26, 2021 at 11:21 PM
If you take the wafer and the wine and for these they symbolize the flesh of Christ and His forgiving blood, then your attention is in that. If these rituals succeed in bringing Christ back into you, and you back into Christ, then they are the body and blood of Christ.
Now these are symbols of actual experience. The experience is real, it's a real experience, and the ritual is an effort to help people re-unite. We are easily distracted. This is a form of meditation, not a basis to argue any physical things at all. But these are real things.
I understand them from my own situation and the role that seeing Master within has upon me.
Like a leaf I can be blown away from my own sanctuary in a mild breeze, and then have to struggle against that very same distracting wind that carried me off, so that now I must struggle with every ounce of limited attention to return, and not always successfully. Wouldn't it be better to stay grounded in my sanctuary to begin with?
This is our daily struggle. If symbols of the world can distract us, so that we react defensively, anxiously, so that we struggle to meet the expectations of our family, of our job, even to take proper care of ourselves, then why not have symbols with the power to return us into His sanctuary where we are not alone with these simple burdens that, due to our own limited functionality, become overwhelming? In His company we have the strength to continue without any obstacles at all. But alone, life becomes impossible.
If, rather than criticize, we understood the Truth of these symbolic things, we can also better appreciate with renewed focus and effort their correlates in our own practice.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 27, 2021 at 07:49 AM
It’s like taste. The perception of flavor is largely in the brain. This morning I had tea and a scone. And I was like, this tea is terrible! But then I saw that I had put the jasmine Earl Grey tea bag in my cup instead of the ginger Ceylon. And then I was like, oh this tea is really good. 😂 (true story)
Posted by: Sonia | June 27, 2021 at 08:31 AM
Wafers are like all things just things without value.
Value, meaning etc etc like love etc is ATTACHED to these valueless things.
It is this ATTACHMENT that matters
It is this HUMAN ATTACHEMENT that people are willing to offer their lifes.
The stripe and stars is just cloth, meaningless and valueless by itself, but due to the value and meaning to it given by people in the USA thousands of lives are lost and will be lost in the future
Wafers for RC's is the same as the flag.
Posted by: um | June 27, 2021 at 09:40 AM
Then ....
The question arises ... Is it possible that things can have an value, a meaning that was attached to it by the previous makers, owners etc.
With a friend of us, an gifted potter, we once visited an exposition of old chines pottery. When we entered the separate hall in the museum, there was a visitor standing in awe before an old [ming] pot. When he left, our friend put his right hand in the pot, feeling for the rims left by turning the wheel. He called us and pointed a certain things to be felt in the interior that told him something about the proces. Jokingly he said ... feel, just feel, ..., the potter must have had problems with his elbow or he was drunk at the time of turning the wheel.
All of an sudden, the bot was no longer a "special" pot but an ordinary pot made by an unkown potter for daily use many hunderds of years ago.
But ... what about the paintings of Rembrandt? Are they also "just"paintings made famous by us?
And from there the many religious artfacts that are kept in great respect all over thge world
Posted by: um | June 27, 2021 at 10:22 AM
So the RSSB agents are spreading false information, i have caught you out again this time on karma (spensor). If there is karma, then why have NARSASIST, tyrants, mafia cartel in power, like RSSB, GSD, and others, never get caught!!!!. Money is power. The reason is the whole system in this dimension is rigged in their favour and karma is used by gurus to keep the abused in place and in suffering. They can do what they like, eg look at GSD the ultimate hypocrite whilst we have to obey the rules to go to heaven. Absolute bull.
Posted by: Slayor | June 27, 2021 at 02:04 PM
@Sonia
Yes its a good read especially the discourse on Sunyata or Nothingness
https://divine-order.wixsite.com/beyond-self/post/all-things-arise-out-of-nothing-and-dissolve-back-into-nothing
Posted by: Solomon | June 27, 2021 at 09:22 PM