Open Thread 37 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

Remember, off-topic comments should go in an Open Thread. 

If you don't see a recent comment, or comments, posted, it's because you've failed to follow the above rule. Keep to the subject of a blog post if you leave a comment on it. And if you want to use this blog as a "chat room," do that in an open thread.

As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks on someone are an exception, as is hate speech. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[um]

It is your blog

Not often but now and then a message doesn't appear, I have never known why.

If it was done by you because it was considered as being of topic , it never re-appeared in an open threat.

What is worse, is that some of the messages appeared changed, with parts missing.

[Brian Hines]

um, it's not me.

I almost never edit comments unless someone has made an error and wants a correction. I never have failed to publish comments unless they are wildly off-topic or otherwise not in line with this blog's comment policies. If you want a comment in an Open Thread, you need to put it there yourself. I don't move comments from one post to another.

If a message doesn't appear, I have no idea why that is. Sometimes people make mistakes. Currently I'm not moderating comments, only deleting those that deserve deleting. So comments should appear right away. I recommend copying a comment before the "post" button is clicked. I do that myself with blog posts, just to be sure that I don't lose something I've spent time writing.

[um]

Thank You Brian ... Good idea to consider.

[Mike England]

Wow.
Off topic in an open thread.
That’s a first.

[Brian Hines]

Mike, you can’t go off topic in an open thread. That’s a logical impossibility. Like Donald Trump making sense for three consecutive spoken sentences.

[OshoRobbins]

I guess this is how conspiracy theories evolve.
People need someone to blame.
And who better than “them”

On this blog, “them” is Brian since he is the god of this blog (the creator and sustainer and destroyer of all that can or might appear here)

So when something goes wrong - it must be Brian up to his tricks.

So with covid, various conspiracy theories emerge
Population control: they are trying to kill off the elderly and the poor
Vaccine trick: the vaccine is designed to either kill us or track us via microchips in the vaccine

So otherwise intelligent people make a decision not to take the vaccine or to deny the existence of covid 19

[S]

Ooo I love off topic conversations.

My husband said he saw this trailer and it reminded him of me. https://youtu.be/jpZrVxvG3mk

I’ve been saying for a long time now that I plan to be the Angel of Death. But then it dawned on me, that’s GSD’s job. So then I thought well, I’ll have to think of something more interesting. A lot more interesting...

[🌺 One 7 for the non-spirituel 🌺]

'37 - my birth year

S, i know U aspire better, you r to wispelturig
(Hééé today I finding out that if I don t know the english word while editing,
I just type thr dutch word, next °°search on it, . . . nice

Further UM, I see the ruler of this blog as an ant simulating an empire to reign,
very similar to little donald ,
not that I expect any empathy from where it's not existing . . .

One of his DELETINGS was when I warned against vaccinations 5 years or so ago,
while he was 'pro-' , . . reason to pervertly Archi Bunker_like
deleting
Curious what his stand is today on ^NRA programming
it might bring in some empathy or kill that even more
Cheers

7

[um]

Well 7 ...

>>Further UM, I see the ruler of this blog as an ant simulating an empire to reign,
very similar to little donald , not that I expect any empathy from where it's not existing . <<

He certainly lays down the rules of conduct, but that doesn't make him necessarily a "ruler" and certainly not a "Trump". Personally I consider him a "seeker" after what he considers to be the truth.

Being surrounded by people for many, many years, that have all sorts of fantastic stories to tell about their inner experiences and not being able to access the same, despite all the hard work one puts in, is not a pleasure ... so much so that it opens the door for distrust, doubts and more.

Understanding and compassion, I hate to write that down, is requested.

Wispelturig is difficult to translate ... the words found in the dictionary do not cover the feeling it has in Dutch.

[Spence Tepper]

As for Brian's role, he carries out the Hukum of his Master with laser precision. He is the bulldozer tearing down the old decayed buildings that are now dangerous to live in anymore. And we who are chained to him are being dragged through the gravel, all the tar being scraped away. But not roughly. Carefully, systematically. And in due time we will all see our destination as we pass through the decay, the remnants of a long gone past.

It doesn't matter for Brian whether he can see the destination or not. He has an unerring radar for bullshit, and this guides him beautifully as well. We will all see the destination together

[swami umami]

"^NRA programming"

7,

Do you mean RNA?

[🌺 7 for the non-spirituel errors 🌺]

Thank U Soami , Right , mRNA it is
and Brian
Wouldn't U ask a second opinion from a man?
there is a contraversion on these plastic mats used

7

[S]

7

Haha wispelturig it is...

But even fate is no match for the wispelturig.

Goodnight cruel world.

I love a good melodrama, and test even melodramas have their fate.

[S]

7, nothing lasts forever my friend. Not even the guru.

[Dungeness]

@ Haha wispelturig it is...
@ But even fate is no match for the wispelturig.

Colloquial English is more direct... and colorful:
"F***ed by the fickle finger of Fate"

[S]

Oh Dungeness, you wise sage, to what do we owe the pleasure?

[S]

It’s still a White man’s world. Fuck me. Fuck everything. I was born a man in a woman’s body. The irony...

[swami paramhansa umami yummy tummy]

A worldwide vaccination campaign eradicated smallpox, a very deadly virus. Polio and measles are rare now but have reasserted themselves in regions where too many parents can't or won't vaccinate their children. I've seen a few people in my time with arms or legs made spindly and limp from polio. Is this what you want?
https://youtu.be/IpOz2sahBXo

I had the Pfizer mRNA covid vaccine series. It didn't change me in any way, except, I will assume, for resistance to covid!

So what's so wrong about vaccines???

[S]

Yikes, that was a lot of fff’s. Sorry about that. (Feel free to delete that one 😬)

There’s something to be said for not saying anything at all.

On another note, I had my second vaccine yesterday. I can’t even begin to describe the ridiculously weird and uncomfortable symptoms I had for 24 hours. Finally feeling better. In two weeks I’ll be fully vaccinated. 😃

[XYZ]

Here’s a thought that’s been on my mind a lot lately—why is it that some Saints treat everyone the same while others look at each individual based on their karmas? Some Saints see only the light of the soul in each person. Other Saints feel it’s their right to treat each person differently based on what they believe to be their karma. Why would a saint see a person’s karmas? Why even look at that? And what kind of madness justifies treating one person differently to another based on their past.

I thought Saints were supposed to live in the present. In the “Now”.

[777]

"Unless the soul merges back into the Father, it will never get peace; it is a drop of that divine ocean. "
Charan

[XYZ]

777

God is probably the most lied about character in this whole drama.

It’s not that I don’t believe in God, it’s just that I don’t believe what people say about him/her/non-binary...

You do realize karma is like getting a credit card with such a high interest rate that it’s unlikely you’ll pay it off. It’s like borrowing money from a loan shark.

Why would god create such a system? Even better, how insanely ridiculous is it to believe that god would appoint someone to manage such a system. That would be the same as him doing it himself. That would make god and Kal (or whatever you want to call it) the same thing.They are the same thing if you truly believe god was insane enough to put a system like that in place.

Belief becomes your reality... even if it’s a temporary reality.

There is absolutely no way that an all-loving benevolent god created this mess.

And that’s not beyond anyone’s understanding. That’s basic common sense.

[XYZ]

Seriously, if you do believe in Kal then you should realize he’s the one who started all this lying about god. A negative power cannot tell the truth—because they’re complete opposites. He sold you this story that god put him in charge and you can’t go home till all your karma is paid off... somehow.

And why does god allow him to do this? Technically he doesn’t. The light can’t see darkness. It doesn’t even acknowledge it. We keep suffering because we keep believing lies... and we spread them.

The truth is we created the devil. It only exists in our mind.

god is an energy, spirit, so It doesn’t “think” like we do.

I truly believe we are all one and the same—we just don’t realize it. And one day we won’t remember any of this.

god didn’t appoint some mad mathematician to decide when his children could return home.

That would be like parents putting a cruel criminal in charge of watching their small children. No parent would do that.

And please don’t reply with the classic, nonsensical “but His ways are beyond our understanding”. The only thing beyond our understanding is insanity.

The problem with the believing that a system of karmic checks and balances (and it never truly balances) as a suitable way for God to keep things in order and only allow people home when all that baggage is picked up, is that you’re believing in a cruel god. You sit long enough, and that’s exactly what you’ll realize.

This all just hit me last night... so everything looks a little different today. It’s weird but it’s oddly comforting.

[um]

@ XYZ

There is no good and bad in nature ... it is only in culture.

The killing in nature, is the thing to be understood.

We are natural beings, living a cultural life.

The first thing written in "my submission":

man came first.
Religions were instituted later for the evolution of his soul.
Man was not made for the sake of religion but the purpose was to attain bliss or to realize the lord.

Before Man became a cultural being he was a Natural being.
Culture was instituted later for the sake of understanding, explaining Nature.
Man was not made for culture but the purpose was to attain pleasure and enjoyment.

Nature didn't give us clothes, .....

[um]

and ....
Which natural creature, eats for pleasure alone??
What is "seeking pleasure" in nature??

The birds around the house feed themselves on the fat-balls I hung there ... it is too cold for the season, they use whatever extra food they can find.

[XYZ]

Hi um,

What do you mean by man was first a Natural being?

Do you believe life on earth started with a golden age?

[XYZ]

Um,

I feel like you're saying pain and pleasure are the same, good and bad are the same, god and the devil are the same, truth and lies are the same.

I think we need to draw the line somewhere. If not, then what is truth and what is love.

[um]

@ xyz

That I do not know.

What I know is that I am alive.

And ... I also know that most of the things that are in my mind, came there because they were put before me during my education and schooling for some decades.

Left alone I would never have dreamed of things religious, gods etc etc etc.

Culture. everything pertaining to it, just started one day in the past.
Most things you take for granted did not exist, 10 years ago, 100, years ago, 1000 years ago.

Cooking was an invention, no other natural creature cooks.
The natural man, lived like animals and plants do.... as part of nature
Hunting etc are all inventions, like fire and the wheel.

Humans have the satisfaction of having eaten, taken away from its original purpose and turned into restaurants were only taste maters, the enjoyment of food

Something like that .... ask yourself what the purpose is of things ... it will shed light.

[um]

@ xyz
I feel like you're saying pain and pleasure are the same, good and bad are the same, god and the devil are the same, truth and lies are the same.

I think we need to draw the line somewhere. If not, then what is truth and what is love.

Well I am not saying anything .... Many days and hours I am on myself. If I look outside or go out for a walk in the woods, I do not see any good or bad in nature.

Good and bad are things we attribute to the world around us; they have no existence of themselves in nature but are very needed in culture.

There is no god no truth in nature. Nature is by itself empty and silent. Truth and god are needed in culture.

The variety in which "the same" appears is endless. Some lose their interest in these unique varieties when they discover that there is no end to it and others cannot have enough of them.

There is no end to what can be known on the internet ... and i am not alive to consume it all.

[xyz]

@um

Good enough. :)

[um]

@ xyz

If you look at the misery humanity inflicts on itself, day in day out, through natural glasses, they are just facts that happen according natural laws .... the same like a cat that catches a mouse.

If there could have been an alternative for killing in order to stay alive, I just do not know.

The mechanism of staying alive as an individual by consuming another living creature is far beyond my understanding.

The whole of nature is just one process of transforming and transporting of energiy from the sun ... who knows where it starts and ends.

[Italian itinitus]

Why does anyone talk crap for the sake of talking it as if it's going to get anyone anywhere

[Spence Tepper]

Nature does not impress me, from the sense that so much life depends upon the suffering and death of other life.

There are vegetarian animals. I like those. I like the idea of less killing. It may not raise actual spiritual consciousness, but it raises my feelings of peace and happiness thinking I am doing my part to avoid bringing pain, misery and harm to others.

I am less burdened, and the notion of living a life of minimum burden, where peace that comes from consciously avoiding harming others is a main objective, is a very rewarding life, from the feeling / sentiment perspective. I feel lighter, cleaner.

But it is not always an easy life. We find we have been hurting others even without thinking of it. We do make mistakes. We do have our reactions. And then we must make amends. And that can take years.

As I get older, I realize the truth of what the Dalai Lama said "Being angry is like drinking poison thinking the other person will suffer."

So of course I don't want anyone else to be angry because I became angry, impatient, frustrated.

I reduce my own suffering by avoiding any harm to others. Learning to forgive others is always forgiving ourselves first and foremost. And that also lightens the burden so very much.

You could say doing these things doesn't come naturally. But in time they become second nature.

I buy something made somewhere by people I've never met, trying to make their own homes. But am I helping them or hurting them?

I do what I can. What I have learned, getting older, is not to stray too far from that objective, because, without thinking, we harm. With care, we can avoid most of that harm. And peace thrives in an open atmosphere without such burdens of anger or fear, or lust, or greed, or anything else that enslaves us, that causes us to covet, to hide, to create secrets, to lie, to cheat all to protect things and people we want for ourselves. I Love to be free of those every chance I can. And being free I see more than ever how terribly I was chained, and the chains, hidden that still remain.

[XYZ]

Let’s say you are an adept—an extremely powerful Mystic. Does that mean you’ve realized truth?

Not necessarily. Let’s not confuse power with truth.

[XYZ]

Italian itinitus,

Sounds like what you’re looking for is Silence. Kind of ironic—using Sound to reach Silence. Not discounting it at all, just can’t help but recognize how ironic it is.

[um]

Italian I tinnitus

>>Why does anyone talk crap for the sake of talking it as if it's going to get anyone anywhere<<

Whatever the crap was it got you .... don't worry have some tea

[XYZ]

Just realized something... RSSB is always saying don’t calculate in meditation and yet their whole purpose of meditation stems from the calculation of karma.

IMHO, they focus waaaaaaaaaaay too much on karma.

[XYZ]

The core of RS teachings is karma. It’s not god or the guru—RS teachings would have no foundation without the belief that beings are eternally imprisoned by karma.

And then there’s the whole mythological story they use to explain how karma began.

Reminds me of Greek Mythology.

[um]

@ xyz

That demands explanation!
Do you have something in their books that explains what you state?

[um]

>>>Coming at the time of death.<<<<

I do not recall who but there have been words here, that the appearance of the master at the time of death is an fantasy created by seekers etc.

Well ...
Due to [rivate circumstance I was Searching the index of "light on santmat" for something related to "death". There i found at least 2 letters were it was stated that he HAS to come.

So, why his successor denies that I do not know, nor if I have a correct understanding of what both of them have to say on the subject ... but ... one thing is a fact .... it is not an fantasy of the people.

Even if a person would argue that these letters were not written by him but by members of his staff, he certainly read the letter and did put his signature under it.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
The supernatural explanation of the Master as having responsibility for your soul leads to a nearly endless line of Satsangis at Q and A sessions claiming they can't do their mediation and begging Master to take them Home. He tells them, at least in the most recent videos, that the Lord comes for everyone but they aren't aware of it because they have not developed that relationship in mediation. But he also goes in to say the Lord is actually always there at all times and never leaves us. We feel He has arrived when we attend to Him, attend to Shabd and becomes flooded with light and sound and his visage. Then we say He had come. But it's really all about what we attend to. And we must learn how to do that, so it's all about our effort in meditation. The pieces are all there already. We are all connected up to Shabd and the Master. And each other.

[Spence Tepper]

One more point Um
There is no exclusivity and no caste system in the Lord's home.
If you say "The Master is God In Human Form"...
Then I say "Every human being is God, see for yourself." And be humbled by it.

If you say "The Master comes for the initiates at the time of death"...

Then I say "The highest lord of all is already within each person. The whole path in each of us, available to each, even the non - initiates."

If you say "But the initiates souls are raised and not the others"

Then I say, " all is left behind at death but the one element of Truth in us. Have we met Them yet? Do we even know that one eternal part of ourselves? Because everything else goes. It's a fire sale. In nature nothing is left. Everything but that one element is dismantled, destroyed and recycled. Even our personality and everything we thought we knew. The sacred stained windows of our holy temple smashed, the whole building razed to the ground. Food for worms. All copies of our books here burned never to be read by anyone else here. And the originals, written on the waves of gravity through all space and time where no one will ever read them.

[um]

@ Spence

I am not in a position to discuss the teachings or what you write about it.

I just wanted to state and do it again, that in those letters one speaks of "the master" , without any suggestive hints towards, the shabd or the lord. For one that has had no previous inner experience, the reference to "master" points to his astral form, being the same as the physical form.

please do read letter 88 in light on santmat otherwise I have nothing to add or say to the matter.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
I'm not quite sure what your point is.
If anyone here isn't familiar with the teachings they can go read Sant Mat literature for free in a variety of places on the web, including the official RSSB website
https://rssb.org/index.html

I don't think any of us should presume to speak for that organization, past, present or future. We have no official capacity.

But each of us is our own duly appointed official representative of our own view and experience.

There is Sant Mat according to Brian, Sant Mat according to Osho Robbins..
Sant Mat according to Um..
Sant Mat according to Spence...

Each of these are the official opinions of their author.

But as for RSSB and the official source, of which Charan and Gurinder have and hold the highest offices, let their organization speak for itself.

I can only speak to my own interpretation and experience and if anyone wants to know what the RSSB position was or is, I refer the reader to the source. And I caution them against taking anyone else's words in their place. It's unnecessary and lazy.

https://rssb.org/index.html

What happens at death is a big topic and there are quite a few official RSSB positions on the subject.

Of course the RSSB philosophy is its own. It only becomes meaningful to anyone relative to their own personal view. And in all events their own personal view is the only one they will ever know and can truly represent, because people pick and choose items and place them in their desired context. That's OK so long as we own our own position as ours and do not hide behind Dad or Mom claiming we represent their position, essentially putting words in their mouths claiming to be quoting them. They can represent themselves. We are always and only quoting ourselves, using other's words. Of course we could just go ahead and use our own. Much simpler.

[um]

@ Spence

It is not about what is meant with saying or writing "the master comes at the time of death" by this or that master or by anybody else.

It was just to mention that this believe that is shared by many followers of this path is not created by them but has it roots in what is said and written by the teachers of that path..

The same holds for the existence of inner regions. How that is to be interpreted is not the point. Here too the point is, it is not invented by followers. It is to be found in the initiation protocols, recordings, video's and books.

Just that simple.

[Dungeness]

@ The core of RS teachings is karma. It’s not god or the guru—RS teachings would have no
@ foundation without the belief that beings are eternally imprisoned by karma.

No, I think mystics would say karma is only a game we're playing.
Death, disease, war, betrayal, eternal conflict... it's all a thrill ride
through duality. It has to be frighteningly real though and of course
every good drama has a taskmaster/director with an account book.
That ensures the game doesn't end too soon to be a really gripping
thriller. So, every beat of the story gets played out. Each merit or
demerit brings a "stay-after-school" note. Either for reward or punish-
ment. Who then is this relentless villain Kal? [Where's his damn
account book? I wanna burn it. ]

The consciousness that is our essence is the playwright. In fact
mystics say God is the "totality of consciousness". But meanwhile
the play gets scarier with more twists and turns until the climax
arrives. At that moment our protagonist hears the director's cue
and begins the last act. Finally, he remembers it was all a play.
He takes a bow and leaves the stage.

[Dragonslayor]

Parasitic leeches like GSD and his RSSB circus, secretly manipulate karma to lock souls in this circus show called life on earth. Guilt, fear, karma, blame, are the puppet strings attached to satsanges. GSD is nothing but the wizard of oz , hiding in the shadows, and doing the deeds of his master, lucifer, his god, eons ago. All in exchange for being called a god, have the fame of madonna, and the sexual libido of Austin powers. Dirty old man.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"It was just to mention that this believe that is shared by many followers of this path is not created by them but has it roots in what is said and written by the teachers of that path.."

Everything is rooted in both the teachings, which heavily rely on metaphor and poetry, and the filter of the listener.

So the belief shared by many is a statement about other people. Why speak for them?

Ultimately the gospel is what resonates within us. Some will hear of the masters' power, compassion and commitment. Others will ignore their own duty to the same, putting the master on a pedestal.

Who is this Master that comes at death in the teachings? The physical form? You mentioned the Astral form? Who really knows what an Astral form is? How can the Astral form take anyone beyond the Astral region, the very region that also contains all the regions of hell (except this one) and most of the ones of heaven?

And is the Master something really so distant from what is in each of us?

It gets unnecessarily complicated when you try to take things in a literal exact way.

The Master coming at death is also spoken of as the Master within you.

So you may attend only to the line of teaching you prefer and ignore the rest. Or just accept the lines of teaching you are comfortable with, including your interpretation. Whatever inspires you to mediate with full faith in your Master. Meditation without the distractions of doubt, yeilds the focus needed for progress.

As for what anyone else says someone else said, really, do we want to tease that out?

You have mentioned several times in the post that you have no inner experience, and so your adherence to the path is plagued with some doubt, but a decision to proceed, in the hopes of avoiding an adverse death. But could that be superstition?

It's not about the day of our death. We are all dying daily. But we are asleep to it.

If we wake up, we harm less, and can help each other more. Do this because it is right, and not to assuage your fear. Do not feed that.

[um]

@ Spence

>> So the belief shared by many is a statement about other people. Why speak for them?> Who is this Master that comes at death in the teachings? The physical form? You mentioned the Astral form? Who really knows what an Astral form is? ,,

I wrote that I do not have to raise these questions or answer them.

HERE ... in this forum .... remarks are made that these things are from the fantasie of the seekers. I just wanted to state it is not.

HOW people read this things and what is the intention behind writing them is not the issue here.

>> You have mentioned several times in the post that you have no inner experience, and so your adherence to the path is plagued with some doubt, but a decision to proceed, in the hopes of avoiding an adverse death. But could that be superstition?<<

My goodness Spence ...

Again ... I am not writting about death, fear of death but about incorrect statements here.an mentioning that doesn't mean I adhere to something.

[Uchit]

@Spence
@ Who is this Master that comes at death in the teachings? The physical form? You mentioned the Astral form? Who really knows what an Astral form is? How can the Astral form take anyone beyond the Astral region, the very region that also contains all the regions of hell (except this one) and most of the ones of heaven?

Spence, aka the number 1 RSSB agent on this site is still peddling RSSB propaganda. Why are you insisting others follow the same alien internal lord/master? Are you getting bonus darshan from your demon/guru from the inside.

Have a look at link below, its Star trek , and read between the lines - dont take it literally, just the message behind it, but watch to the end. Start to question this beast inside you that controls you, it may just start setting you free.

https://youtu.be/ghSq2qlwrs0

[Dungeness]

@ ...aka the number 1 RSSB agent on this site is still peddling..."

This venom, likely under several aliases, contravenes the "attack ideas, not individuals"
CofC guideline. There's no attempt to discuss/defend the commenter's own ideas, to
engage with others' positions, or offer any counter narrative either... other than a
repetitive, toxic attack on GSD and his "agents". GSD is a public figure and can endure
attacks but active commenters on this site shouldn't have to.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
" I am not writting about death, fear of death but about incorrect statements here.an mentioning that doesn't mean I adhere to something."

I hear what you are saying. But "incorrect" can only be in the literal sense that someone may have misquoted RSSB spiritual literature. Either misquoted or taken out of context. And there is plenty of room for that in both the literature and different interpretations of it.

What Maharaj said to one initiate is quite often a little different than the message he gives to another. So there is plenty to make of those different responses.

Singularly was his advice to mediate and our answers within. But who believes him enough to do their work?

Then there is the larger issue of being incorrect about what actually happens at death because we have not yet experienced that. From that perspective no one gets it right.

To adapt Christopher Morely's adage,
" Death is a foreign language. Everyone mispronounces it."

Quoting a book means little if no one believes it. And even less if they have no faith in their own experience, and capacity to experience.

[um]

@ spence

How complex simple things can become.

HERE, in this forum there are people that suggested that that what they believe about what happens at the time of death and inner regions, is dreamed up by them. ... in our language the saying says "sucked out of the thumb" .... well spence .... the statements that these people base their beliefs on are as singurlarly as meditation and can be found on tapes, books etc.

These thoughts, these convictions, these believes are in the mind and the hearts of thousands op people of all sorts of education, cultural background etc.

I was not arguing about the meaning of death or whatever. That young men seek death by killing themselves and others, believing that they will go to paradise and are pleasing their god .... is simple a thought THEY did not invent, they listened to people that stated these things, knowing that they were understood in that way. My point is not what these people believe but the fact that there was put something before them to consume mentally so that they could act in a given way.

Please just accept it as an example of the same mechanism.

Although those who lent their ears upon these things are responsible for it themselves and cannot outsource it, the fact remains, that if these things were not put before them they could never have believed them.

It is that simple. ...

[Dungeness]

@ The supernatural explanation of the Master as having responsibility for your soul leads to a
@ nearly endless line of Satsangis at Q and A sessions claiming they can't do their mediation
@ and begging Master to take them Home.

Ah, I assumed those cries were from those who realized that they'd never
meditate or make it home on their own. They knew a personal relationship
with and absorption in the Master was the only way back. Once complete,
they'd never leave home again.

They were begging for that. Maybe it's an abdication of their own effort.
It's murky whose effort it is though.

[Solomon]

The following is an anecdote from the pixar film Soul

“I heard this story about a fish. He swims up to an older fish and says: “I’m trying to find this thing they call the ocean.” “The ocean?” the older fish says, “that’s what you’re in right now.” “This”, says the young fish, “this is water. What I want is the ocean!”

Similarly we are seeking a personified God.

[🌺 SEE THE ANALOGUE l 🌺]

T@UM
he same holds for the existence of inner regions. How that is to be interpreted is not the point. Here too the point is, it is not invented by followers. It is to be found in the initiation protocols, recordings, video's and books.

The regions structure equals the moleculair system:
Tabble < Molecules < Atoms < Electrons/Protons/ < Quarks < Higs Particle < the beyond Higs

Why somewhere high in consciousness, with copies in lower planes : The mighty One can't place HIMSELF, ( HIS energies )
only to be reveiled by :
Simran : combined with
Grace ( free cadeau )
Love ( generates the right frequency)
No Thoughts ( in meditation )
Death ( unescapable )

777

[um]

Well 777

Having only access to the world of the "table" all other things are like words in a book.

Reading "the lord of the ring" places me in a mental fantasy. However pleasant that fantasymightbe, it is just that ... a fantasy ...... it is not an experience of that world described in the book.

All things related to NDE's, OBD's , alternative mental experiences and more are just things I have heard of or been told about by people who had them. They could share their joy with me but not their reality.

[777]

I was just comparing
The (former) Masters f.i. Rumi and their books were not so stupid
How anybody can explain what Love is?
777

[um]

@ 777
At the outset of the Mathnawi Rumi has his scribe write that the book is an treasure trove for the pure of heart and the advanced on the path and that it is an maze were the undeserving get lost.

Years ago I gave up .... I can't understand the words of Einstein and the words of Rumi and his friends are of the same level.

No problem, ....

[Uchit]

@Dungeness
@ There's no attempt to discuss/defend the commenter's own ideas, to
engage with others' positions, or offer any counter narrative either...

There are a handful of active members on this site, who are RSSB agents, that conspire to recruit vulnerable individuals into the RSSB path and spread untruths - stick to other official RSSB Forums. Your satsangs are not welcome here...!!!! GSD has already cornered that market on YouTube.

Also If you actually fully read what I have written then you would have seem I added a YT video for Spence to ponder over. My argument and position has been clear and unambiguous. Stop knee jerking into quick reactions and making brash judgements.

[Dungeness]

@ There are a handful of active members on this site, who are RSSB agents, that conspire to recruit
@ vulnerable individuals into the RSSB path and spread untruths - stick to other official RSSB
@ Forums.Your satsangs are not welcome here...!!!! GSD has already cornered that market...

I don't know who is an agent of RSSB and who isn't. Nor do I know whether they're
telling truths or lies. A key objective of CofC though is to discuss ideas and not
personalities. Nor should anyone accuse others of "untruths", or castigate them as
"rssb agents", or allege their guru is a pedophile who should be investigated for his
wife's death as has been done, or one who is summarily guilty of financial fraud.
Ultimately, that's for the courts to adjudicate.

To do otherwise is not to pursue truth or discuss ideas but to engage in conspiracy
theories like a radical jihadist. One who's forgotten his objectivity and must attack
ideas which don't align with his own. It's a short leap to justifying death for any
imagined enemies who dare disagree too. The US saw it happen January 6.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"Ah, I assumed those cries were from those who realized that they'd never
meditate or make it home on their own."

If they realized that then why beg?

[Dungeness]

"Ah, I assumed those cries were from those who realized that they'd never
meditate or make it home on their own."

@ If they realized that then why beg?

Hi Spence,

It's a subtle thing it seems to me. Paradoxical because we know and we
don't know in the same moment. Our intuitive self really does know in the
moment that we can't make it home with our diminished attention. But our
mind, the books, the stage actor remind us effort counts most of all in that
quest.

But where does that effort come from? Not from outside of course but
from that intuitive, elusive "self" at the core of being that whispers truth but
isn't always heard. Who throws the rope then to pull ourselves out of the
well with? How to stay in touch with the rope thrower? He has to be there
with the rope so I can start pulling myself out. Whose effort do I invoke?
All that's seemingly left is to beg someone who knows the secret.
Someone who's not trapped in the well even if he's outside on a stage.

[XYZ]

@ xyz

That demands explanation!
Do you have something in their books that explains what you state?

Posted by: um | April 23, 2021 at 02:23 PM

Deductive reasoning.

[um]

@ xyz

Deductive reasoning.

Hmmm .... well, all spiritual schools, Zen etc included are all based on karma in one form or another. Maybe they give it another name than karma but it is the same.

And a step further.

How came that idea of karma in the world?

Those who had spontaneous inner experiences, before the concept of karma was born, had only to deal with what happened to them.

Those who didn't have those experiences could never have developed such an concept.

If this deductivly correct you know better ... ;-)

[um]

@ Dungeness

If you were not educated, into religious and spiritual concepts from early childhood, than what would be your position?

If these concepts were not put before you, you would have had mentally no idea.

The world is and has always been divided in those who had SPONTANEOUS inner experiences and those who heard from them and were intriqued by what was put before them.

Those who had these sponateous experiences must have sought and found means to re-experience that initial experience.

The explanation of the power that caused these spontaneous experiences was also delivered by them. And ... as far as I understand it, there has never been a person to verify the truth of it.

So God, karma, reincarnation are all concepts that give meaning and direction to life but need not necessarily be based upon truth, reality.etc.

[Dungeness]

@ The explanation of the power that caused these spontaneous experiences was also delivered by
@ them. And ... as far as I understand it, there has never been a person to verify the truth of it.

The counterpoint is that the experience of the supernatural is ineffable and
can't be proven. At least not externally. No artifact demos from the "inner
regions" will be forthcoming. However, mystics concur these experiences
are available to anyone, repeatable, and can be confirmed. It requires an
inward path of mindfulness and often an intense devotion. Language falls
short when asked to describe those experiences. Try to pin down that
which is ineffable and attempts by mystics will be metaphoric at best.
Or they're at a complete loss and only say "neti, neti" [it's not this, it's
not that either].

@ So God, karma, reincarnation are all concepts that give meaning and direction to life but need
@ not necessarily be based upon truth, reality, etc.

But that assumes some truth is truthier because it derives from external
shared experience and subtly dismisses what consciousness can become
aware of within. A man falls into a dream and asks co-dreamers "Is this
all real "? "Don't be silly, of course it is'', they say. "You see it, you feel it,
it's solid. We conduct scientific experiments on it. Of course, it's real."
Then the dreamer suddenly wakes and realizes it wasn't at all. Neither
were the co-dreamers.

[swami umami]

"Have a look at link below, its Star trek , and read between the lines - dont take it literally, just the message behind it, but watch to the end. Start to question this beast inside you that controls you, it may just start setting you free.
https://youtu.be/ghSq2qlwrs0 "

The reboots never stretched the line between acting and schmacting that the original 60's series could.

[S]

swami umami,

What the...

🤣🤣🤣

That’s the most entertained I’ve been in a long time.

Although I have know idea what you’re trying to say...

[Dr. Zeus]

Denial is as total as love. You cannot deny part of yourself, because the rest will seem to be separate and therefore without meaning. And being without meaning to you, you will not understand it. To deny meaning is to fail to understand. You can heal only yourself, for only God’s son needs healing. You need it because you do not understand yourself, and therefore know not what you do. Having forgotten your will, you do not know what you really want.

[Pray for India 🇮🇳]

2021 has turned out to be a pretty good year so far when you think about it (if you’re living in America).

Remember April 2020? It was so startlingly terrifying that it’s hard to believe we’ve come such a long way.

However, India is the new center of apocalyptic nightmares. Ground zero for what-not-to-do when you’re battling a global pandemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/world/asia/India-delhi-covid-cases.html

If you believe in prayer...

[If God created the devil then god is the devil]

https://youtu.be/3mTh2joPPj8

[swami umami]

S,

The reboots [of Star Trek] never stretched the line between acting and schmacting (overacting/artifice) [in the way] that the original 60's [Star Trek] series could.

Captain Kirk was completely over the top but got away with it. How??? Demons, of course! Space demons!
https://youtu.be/wbzNYbvAI-Y

And this, Captain Pike visits hell!
https://youtu.be/J8R7EZTkiVk

[S]

S,

The reboots [of Star Trek] never stretched the line between acting and schmacting (overacting/artifice) [in the way] that the original 60's [Star Trek] series could.

Captain Kirk was completely over the top but got away with it. How??? Demons, of course! Space demons!
https://youtu.be/wbzNYbvAI-Y

And this, Captain Pike visits hell!
https://youtu.be/J8R7EZTkiVk

Posted by: swami umami | April 30, 2021 at 05:59 AM

It’s like watching an opera without the singing.

Luckily, the only demons that exist are the ones we create. So, uncreate them.

Poof!

[swami umami]

"Luckily, the only demons that exist are the ones we create. So, uncreate them.
Poof!"

Exactly what demons want you to think! Next thing you know they're in control of your starship with planet Earth in the crosshairs!

[🌺 tangible testing 🌺]

Aftter reading the last chapter hfrom Apprecieting Reader's quotes
Yes : Science can find the truth
diving in the quantum world for a few zillions of years
In contrast
the following quote can be tested by everyone :
Quote of today :

"My friend, the happiest person is one who always keeps the Lord in his thoughts. "

I would say : "Can U spend just ONE day to Test it seriously
for just ONE DAY

777

[🌺 PARIS 🌺]

-

"Paris vaut bien une messe"

-

[S]

Everyone teaches, and teaches all the time. This is a responsibility you inevitably assume the moment you accept any premise at all, and no one can organise his life without some thought system. Once you have developed a thought system of any kind, you live by it and teach it. Your capacity for allegiance to a thought system may be misplaced, but it is still a form of faith and can be redirected.

[Posted by: 🌺 half ... to rule 🌺]

OK ... S

makE it half a day ; 12 hours

[🌞.💥. hence 💥 "Give them Hell" 💥 🌞]

@Who is God
YOU, . . . U like it or not
777

Not only existing outside THIS quantum_ time_space_continuun
but 7 times SO

In each finer_Up Layer , normally , One must die (cut actual frequency) to switch and go more pure
kind of Higgs-Boson° on your own
Seven times ( 'normally with ascese' , for the general public )

Amazing and strong firewall That Is - Wow
HAIL . . . The Divine Hacker

777

Posted by: 🌺 Best firewall Ever 🌺  | May 03, 2021 at 03:22 PM

[umami]

🌺🌞💥 💥💥🌞🌺,

ascese (Dutch)
= ascèse (French)
= asceticism (English) ?

[💥 Universal Happiness 💥]

@777 If I didn’t know any better I’d swear you’re high most of the time. Posted by: Sonia | April 20, 2020 at 03:39 PM

Correct. . . . but. why & how U know better ??

but I try to make sense, trying patience
F. I.
When I say 100% free will, . . nobody reacts
Can nobody even imagine that S/He is God in Optima Forma
and always was
and 'always' will be. (if an always exists - "before Abraham I AM" )

and not be angry about dirty stuff U have added/restricted yourself during the countless devaluations of this processus

Next scolding the Guy who offers REAL INSIGHT in all this, . .
, . . I mean GSD with HIS task force package of 5 words

777

PS
If all this would be transparant for our minds
the 'original' 'God' should be labeled 'really stupid'

April 21, 2020 at 04:39 AMPosted by: 🌞.💥.💥.💥 🌞 |

[❤️ Arousal ❤️]

I can put in in other words, Your Universal Happiness°°

One of your 7 chakras : Arouse it
U can combine
Easy to do

The lowest Chakra provides the shortest Joy°°

The Highest Chakra provides the longest

So, . . . . . . . Compare!

777

[S ❤️ 😈 ❤️ S]

https://youtu.be/-0beFQnB5lY

The Devil becomes God.

[S]

777

I haven’t attacked GSD or any other guru for that matter in a long time. I just have different beliefs, that’s all.

[S]

At the end of the day we’re all perfect—perfect souls. I don’t believe that God judges or sees our imperfections but our ego does. Our egos keep us trapped in the cycle of fear and judgement life after life.

I doubt you have to sit in meditation contemplating your sins to reach this realization before you die. It takes time to fully grasp—sometimes several years but still much less time than hoping you’ll have inner experiences that show you your ego isn’t “real” any more than the past and future are really. WHAT you are in the moment outside of time is the only thing that’s real.

I read something very recently that said if you can’t realize this is true for every person and everyone you meet then you will never realize it for yourself. So, I’ve been thinking about that concept pretty intensely over the past week or so.

It’s an eye opener.

[7 ❤️❤️ 😈 ❤️❤️ 7]

To BE pretty intensely or Not to BE pretty intensely , . . . . That is The Question

It goes in waves, very long or very short, or both
Try to enjoy The system - little tips I gave
stop fighting gravity

My Curiosity : Do you dicuss this with Matthew all the time?
Kind of daily Satsang?

777

[7 ❤️❤️"😈" ❤️❤️ 7]

There is only one Soul

After your Trailer , I searched in Brians frame
777 "how it works" site:http://hinessight.blogs.com

to see if it still holds

Yes it does
Imagine : The Sun, . . a Galaxy is a Soul+Ego, a Jeeva
A Universe is tat too and there are Zillions

TTo exit chaurasi They need the desire for a 7 chakra body/matrix/engine
to start with
next use it
Don't reflect on old 'sins', . . . perhaps they weren't sins
Try to Love and the whole trailer of your existence will vaporise

It's exceptional

777

[Solomon]

Here is a link to Osho Rajneesh discourses on Guru Nanak's Jap Ji Sahib - beautifully expalined in 20 sessions.

https://youtu.be/RTE-HWRvKeA

Some interesting points -

" God is not some person who we assume to be up in the sky. This majestic creation is God. God is that final frontier of our self realization"

[S]

777,

Yes, I discuss these things with Matt occasionally.

To your other point, all the Jeevas have 7 chakras and a mind. Even Charan said he sometimes allows satsangis to work their way up from the astral realm after they die. That’s in one of the books.

I don’t know how exact all of that is other than to say you don’t have to drop to this human level just to go back up. We humans seem to think we’re quite special when we say that. Maybe we say it because it somehow makes the bleakness in this world more tolerable. IDK

The end goal of Sant Mat is honorable but the method is not so practical for a world that will barely be habitable in 30 years.

[S]

One comforting thought though, we never die. We just go from one form to another.

I get what is meant by “Dying while living” but it’s not quite accurate. You can “travel” but no one truly dies. Ever.

[S]

Solomon,

And we aren’t what we imagine ourselves to be either. :)

Some earth shattering news here:

The soul never left. It has always resided in the timeless realm. We all have a physical body, astral body, causal body and soul.

Your physical body resides in the physical plane, your astral body resides in the astral plant, your causal body resides in the causal plane and your soul resides in the timeless realm. It cannot be otherwise.

However, your consciousness resides wherever you put your attention. Consciousness isn’t very well understood.

[777]

@Sonia
That was well said and clear without the peanuts!

Thank You

777

but I didn't understand the word "even"

[S]

777,

I think you’re referring to the last word “Ever”. I should have said “Not ever.” It was just for emphasis.

[777]

A tiny correction
about the 7th chakra.
You are right but part of the firewall is that it must be activated with the right code.
In fact it has to do with Ida, Pingala & Shushuma
I think I wrote the ortho wrong
but they are the 3 Paths Ways to higher states of consciousness,
where Sushuma is the ROYAL ROAD
The Royal Road perfecrly fitting in the hierarchical system of Creation
and it leads to the King : Brahm(a)

The way of the monks etc via ascese to unify with that King

However , what Saints do is put their Jeevas on the tiny side road
the little Path use also themselves
to reach Sach Kand ( whatever you want to call that state of the highes place , -we talk symbolictly)
and when they passs , . . Brahma or His Servants have not the slightest idea
what's happening behind their back
If U would tell them , they would not believe

Like - what already you know - for passing Sunna , the disciple will hide so to say in the pocket of the SatGuru - sunna is a black hole on incredable high level , . . black and zillion times bigger than ALL Creations
of which Universes are a tiny part
Not amazing because the whole proccesus is going on a long 'time', called Eternity
( Pls reread my little piece: "How it works"

So , as you remembered from Charan, Yes, . . . a disciple not able to generate
perfect Love in God, via Love for The SatGuru neither in the SatGuru
will be put back here ( U & I f.i. ) many other initiated Jeevas with their codes
will be placed higher Up, as high as possible
all happening without any knolede of Brahma and and higher up Para Brahm
Charan once or often (?) declared that less than one on a million satsangis
will go SK immediately
Everybody is treated very comfortably

Good, . . isn't it?

It makes me think about the happening in Holland, I described here already
where an old Lady without educations asked the representative
Lional Metz ( in SK now; Lional :-)) to translate in english al letter she had written
about the to her opinion absolutely zero progress of herself in meditations

So Lional did and Charan said : Please tell Her that She is in the 4th region.
It means that she passed Sunna already , yes
and HE added: Her husband too.

Swami Ji has left a formidable Path for us
Please telll Matthew - He will like it

777

[777]

Even Charan said he sometimes . . . . .

I don’t know how exact all of that is other than to say you don’t have to drop to this human level just to go back up.

''Drop' to meet The Emporer on this level - HE dropped too
even on Astral Level we couldn't survive the first meeting, the Light, . . .
Even in Etheric level (little, only around earth where occurs NDE & Lucid Dreaming

Even there I fainted when I met Gurinder JI, . . when HE said (during congragetion with many) : "Hééé There we have 777, . . He comes to check me out! "
In that Lucid Dream I woke Up in a hospital, while dreaming
(Later I Had to think about the punch or Upper Cut a guy, Osho received in the UK from BBJ in multi-placement )

U said once BBJ had no humor , hahahah

[🌈 777 🌈]

@Solomon

Haéé You are my birth chart, . . the Solomon s Star - A tetrahaedron :-)
Some rebbis would pay a trillion for it

Correct : WhatU said but Osho Raneesh didn't know
there is more than Brahma &Co
Keep The Faith Solomon Brother
777

[S]

The Void or Great Darkness is an illusion. It isn’t Real unless you believe in it and in order to believe in it you must believe it is possible for the Soul to be separate from God. But that is a false belief. The soul is not separate—we merely have layers of coverings over our eyes that keep us from seeing our own light. And that’s what meditation is for. But meditation isn’t terribly helpful when you don’t know the truth. First you’re taught the truth and then you Realize the truth.

[S]

What you experience is based upon where you put your attention. That’s pretty much spirituality summed up in a nutshell.