A message from someone finding purpose in Judaism, and my response

Recently I found a message from someone in the depths of my email inbox that I had ignored for a long time.

I wrote back to them. A few days ago I got a reply, which I'm sharing below. 

It's a well-written honest explanation of how they went from being non-religious to finding a sense of purpose and belonging in Judaism. 

I can understand why someone would embrace the commandments/rules of a religion rather than struggling to find their own moral code, even though this doesn't make sense to me any more.

After this person's message, minus their name, I've shared my reply to them.

Brian, thank you so much for getting back. I read through our conversation and I am blown away by the full span of emotions I used to feel at the ripe age of 22. I've recently returned to Judaism and have found a lot of peace and meaning in it.

My view of Judaism is very similar to a Zen interpretation of Buddhism: I can't explain to you why G-d exists or whether anything in the Torah is historical, but I know what the practice does for me and that it is beneficial.

As I reread our conversation, I realize I take you a lot more seriously now than I did then (if you could believe that). Memories come back to me of thinking "well maybe he doesn't know" regardless of my affirmations I've expressed; for example, when you say that Buddhists are just as dogmatic, I remember denying the possibility (due to dogmatic thinking), although now, in retrospect, I come to understand that reality.

Judaism has truly given me a lot of divine purpose. I find that it has this uniqueness that there's something in it for every Jew. They say for every two Jews, there's three opinions. I find that to be absolutely true because, as someone looking for spiritual fulfillment, freedom from attachment, and a drive for my compassion, I find all that there ready for the taking.

The idea of taking all of my concerns, throwing away their selfish value, and using them for the purpose of serving G-d is a level of detachment itself.

The idea of G-d is so far away from human understanding that taking all my pleasures and my pains and realizing that it is for the purpose of worshiping something completely intangible has the function of removing the responsibility to be concerned with them from a selfish point of view.

I've noticed that the less I worry about my happiness and more about the happiness of The Intangible Creator, the happier I really am due to the abandoning of my sense of self.

Three times a day I say the most important prayer in the Jewish religion, known as the Shema. Hear O' Israel, The L-rd is Our G-d, The L-rd is One. Meditation is a necessity during this blessing as I run the ideas through my mind respectively, "I am given this responsibility to serve G-d, He is in control of everything and I don't have to worry, and He pervades all matter and all entities and ideas, therefore nothing should ever feel unfamiliar."

This is the Jewish version of taking refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha.

Another thing I love is Shabbat. This is the fact that once a week, we turn off all of our electronics and spend a joyous day where worry is forbidden, family is together, and we are disconnected from all the strain and pain of the world that our phones make sure to frequently remind us of.

I've absolutely fallen in love with Judaism. Once again, I could never point to science and explain why it confirms my beliefs, but I can explain why it makes me happy and can improve my life; and it has.

The amount of "everyday" philosophy that it's provided has been enormously helpful. It's a huge relief to stand on the shoulders of giants with thousands of years of moral documentation. The greatest thing that made me come to the realization that Judaism was something that I needed goes back to the day I "found G-d." I was sitting in my car one night after a tough visit with my therapist.

I was at a crossroads trying to decide if I wanted to do the "right thing" or the "easy thing." The easy thing was something that I knew to be obviously immoral but would allow me to live my life the way I wanted.

Sitting in my car writing down all my thoughts and feelings, I realized that in a case like that, I would not do the right thing unless I subscribed to a form of objective morality to keep myself accountable. I realized that my subjective morality was too unreliable to make me do the right thing and I really wanted to do the right thing.

Right then and there, I felt a rush run over me and an intense calm from the idea that I could prescribe to my life the Torah and finally have a manual on how to live my life in this clueless world. And that's what I did, I subscribed to this ancient morality and decided to do the right thing.

I ended up having my cake and eating it too. Everything happened to go as smoothly as it could be. Ever since then, I feel a huge responsibility to make the world a better place which I am enthusiastic to bear.

I'm sorry to come back to you after reading your blog for about three years about open-mindedness and free choice to seem that I support the established order. However, Judaism is not Christianity and a wandering Jew like myself would be pleased to find that if happiness is what we're all chasing, we may be able to find it in our own backyard. After all, as the Buddha taught, peace isn't something you find outside of yourself.

Thank you for your correspondence and I hope this new year finds you many blessings.

Here's my reply to the message above.

 

I’m glad that you have found so much support in Judaism. I look upon Judaism as being as much about fostering a sense of community among Jews as being a belief structure.

 

Regarding the latter, which includes complying with the Torah, I’ll simply do some arguing (very Jewish!) and observe that your distinction between subjective and objective morality, though superficially correct, has to be taken in a larger context.

 

There is no evidence that Torah morality, or any other religiously-based morality, is objectively true in the sense of reflecting a universal law, as scientific laws do, particularly laws of physics.

 

So choosing to accept a certain form of religious morality is a subjective decision. There’s little doubt that if you had a Hindu background, you’d now be finding support in Hindu traditions. Ditto for any other religion that was a part of your heritage.

 

In no way am I saying that the satisfaction you feel in following Judaic law isn’t genuine and real. We all need something to lean on.

 

I’m just suggesting that in my view the only possibly genuine form of universal human morality needs to rest on evolutionary principles, which some philosophers and scientists are attempting to do. For example, it seems clear that early humans were more likely to survive and thrive if they had a common set of moral beliefs, of what is right and wrong.

 

And our sense of empathy and compassion is tied into this, since the more we help others in our “tribe,” the more likely the group can handle challenges.

 

So it’s no wonder that you are finding such satisfaction in belonging to your particular Judaic tribe. Members of every religion feel the same way, as do secular people like humanists and atheists. However, the latter lack rituals such as those you mentioned, so this limits the power non-religious groups have to bind people together.

 

        — Brian

Comments

[um]

The she, I suppose the writer is a "she", of this email writes:
>>Judaism has truly given me a lot of divine purpose. <<

She writes ... "given to me" .... but there outside there is nobody and nothing that "gives".

We "use" things out there, we "attribute" to them meaning etc ... she attributes "purpose"

ST. Augustine wrote in one of his tractates something to the extent of ... If you love your neighbour, and you follow that love inwards [to its source], you will find god.

St. Augustine describes there an general mechanism, in an particular way.

Love, or whatever we project on the world and the things there in, is like a light, the light that is made to shine upon a thing by free choice, often not aware of that choice being "free". In that light the things appear and shine. For one reason or another one has the impressions that what one sees is an attribute of the thing itself.

That is why, mystics say, "love they enemies" ... not that the enemie or his actions deserves that love, .... no, ....they just point to thatposibility or to what i call "the small path", ...... the realisation that love etc is a GIFT and having free choice it can be given to anything and everybody without any condition; that there are no restrictions to what and whom that love can be given.

The idea that something outside gives, has a purpose. To say that God, buddha, or holy books "gives" puts one in the shoes of a child, that feels safe under the care of the parents. To feel that care is to pass by the fear to die the child has to trust the parents completely. . The child only has to follow the simple demands of the parents, accept the food that is given into small manageable pieces to digest.

And ... having no responsible for the process the child can grow up in peace and comfort, learning to stand eventually on its own feet.

There are few people that can handle the burden of "free choice" to the complete exclusion of anything outside that is responsible in the end....those who have stopped the "outsourcing of personal responsibility" completely and for once and always.

[Ron Krumpos]

I am not an atheist, but rather a non-theist. If believing in God works for someone stick to it, just don't ask me to believe in it too.

As I wrote in my ebook "Preeminent Reality is the holy One in All and All in the wholly One." We can call it God, Allah, Brahman, or by another name. You do not have to be religious to be a mystic.

[Spence Tepper]

The poster writes that the Schema ("Hear") is the most important prayer in all of Judaism. It is certainly one of the most misunderstood.

Hear, O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Dt 6:4-5

Hear the Lord and automatically you will love the lord with all your heart, soul and might. You listen. Just hear.

That is the great Sound within yourself.

Hear the Lord.

Find the Bible written inside you. It is the only one that matters.

[Dungeness]

@ Regarding the latter, which includes complying with the Torah, I’ll simply do some arguing (very Jewish!)
@ and observe that your distinction between subjective and objective morality, though superficially correct,
@ has to be taken in a larger context. There is no evidence that Torah morality, or any other religiously-
@ based morality, is objectively true in the sense of reflecting a universal law, as scientific laws do,
@ particularly laws of physics.

I'll follow Brian's lead and kvetch a bit too. The Kabbalah, the metaphysical underpinning
of the Torah, deals with more than morality. I don't know enough about Kabbalah to even
be slightly dangerous and therefore had to look this up:

---- Kabbalistic practices include meditation, chants and songs..... Breath, light, sound
---- and visualization help Kabbalists reach a higher realm, using ancient, mystical wisdom
---- as a guide.

So, Jewish Kabbalists,, like Christian mystics, are seeking goals that suggest something
a bit more expansive than just morality. Their proof is only found within and not in material
science but is no less rigorous and exacting.

The advantage to looking "within" for happiness, in addition to a reassuring religious
morality, was aptly put by Brian's letter correspondent:

"if happiness is what we're all chasing, we may be able to find it in our own backyard. After
all, as the Buddha taught, peace isn't something you find outside of yourself. "

[um]

>> You do not have to be religious to be a mystic.<<

Either a person has an so called inner experience or he has not.
Those who have one, do speak up about that experience or not.
Speaking up is and can only be done in a socio- cultural frame work to be " understood".
Understanding the HEAR-SAY, is against the background of already existing schools of transcendent thought in order to be understood at all.
Other expressions of inner experiences will not be understood, listened too.

If a mystic is defined as "one having an inner experience" there is no difference between a dreamer, a visionary, a story teller and even a simple thinker ... if not attached to one of the traditions, schools.

The hystory of how NDE's were dealt with by those who had them, those who heard them and those who wanted to explain them and give them a place in human thought, scientists etc,... that hystory tells how that phenomena over time evolved from an questionable phenomena into a mainstream and general accepted.

Again and again
Yes I do believe there could have been a person called Abraham
Yes I do believe the man had an inner exzperience
Yes I do believe that what is found in the bible about the content, could have happend
Does that mean that the so called entities that spoke up in the experience, do indeed exist? ...... no it does not

For those who have the experience and those who believe what is said about that experience it is of vital importance to BELIEVE that there is an causal force beside and beyond Abraham.

Why?

For the simple reason they benefit from the so called experience and the fact that an transedent power has desided something that is important to them. Being desided the always can "wash their hands" and free themselves from all resposibility as they are just obeying the commands of that causal power.

So in the end the land of Israel appeared on the map as a gift of a "god" to his chosen people.

The problem is there has only been ONE PERSON that was informed, a person that needed land for his tribe and an tribe that needed a place to stay that was more than willing to believe his words to solve an problem.

But IF THAT CAUSAL FORCE does exist as separate entity, it failed to inform the other leaders in the world of those days and later. If that power would have done so, maybe much if not all misery, would not have occurred in establishing an state for the descendants of Abraham and his tribe.

So ... which other mystic, shaman or whoever of other traditions, schools, culture, which king emperor or president, was informed in the same way ever since Abraham?

You see ALL people have invaded other peoples territory, and most did did for religious reasons. So half pof the world has lost its original languages and do now speak the languages of their invaders ..English, Spanish, Portuguese, etc etc They all used THEIR god as an excuse to do so, to wash their hands and could effort killing other humans in his name, without feeling any guilt even thinking doing "good"to them. Read about the fate of the indigenous peoples .. the Maori, the Indians, the Inuit, the Aboriginals etc etc.

So ... what is a mystic?
if he cannot attribute what he says to an external power?
And is an believe in an external power not a religion?
And is religion not a part of an culture?
And has any culture not its own drives, needs and motivations?

[um]

@ Spence

It says ... hear, O Israel ....it is a an admonition to the tribe of Moses,.... listen to what he, as messenger has to say, based upon his inner experience.

You are right with your interpretation but that is something else.

If what you say was the general interpretation, they would have heard that sound in great numbers and hearing that sound they would not have taken up weapons in order to kill an be killed ... they would be like you ... hahaha

So Spence it was a command by moses to listen to him, justifying that command with projecting his authority to a power not seen by the masses but only by him.

People all over the world are so controlled and forced to act in a certain way ...out of fear.

Hahahaha ..my grandma, peace be upon her soul, if she has one, use to tell me that I should not steal from my parents otherwise my hands would grow above my grave ... hahahaha. She was kind and cared well for us and so none of us ever stole a dime from our parents .... hahaha

[um]

And Spence ...

I started reading "Deuteronomy" .... if you lay the question of the existence of a god by side ... an interesting story,......an story that makes one understand why Moses and his tribes people "NEEDED" an God to pursue their goals.

If he had spoken to his people in terms of an charismatic lay person they would have turned their backs upon him ... but using their "fear" for the unknown, he could control them.

Self fulfilling prophecy Spence does come in many forms and garbs ... hahaha ... call it the "law of attraction."

An Neuro psychological researcher found in stimuli-deprivation study that the brains, that needs stimuli to survive and function, will produce its own stimuli to process if it is deprived from its normal input of stimuli, in order to stay alive. Hence he explained the occurrence of inner experiences.

The technique used by schools, does that ... depriving the brain from stimuli

I need coffee now ... hahaha ... that too ... is manipulating the brain

[um]

Who would heed the advice of the tribe elders ... not to eat pork ... if these elders could not justify their commands by a god?

All these commands, have a root in the needs of a tribe. It is not wise to consume pork if it is not handled properly ...but nobody would listen.

so ...

If an charismatic person would come and express himself in the name of this or that god, the smoking and the use of alcohol would stop out of fear for the wrath of god and ending up in hell or be born anew.

The idea of just ONE god plays a part in this techniques. If there were more gods, one could use that as an excuse not to obey a given command but telling the people that there is just ONE god for all humanity, there is no escape.

They say ... follow the money ... but it should also be said ... follow the thoughts, the emotions and the impressions.... not the projections thereof on the world.

[um]

And ... on reading Deuteronomy

For the people to lreach and live in the promised land, they were ordered by god, Moses, to fight different peoples and take their cities.

You see spence, if there is just ONE god for ALL and not only the god of Moses, how do you explain that order?

At least he could have warned these people ... people created by him.

What is described in that book is still the policy to day....they stil take from others based on the idea that THEIR god gave it to them.

[manoj]

Alot of similarities with the Secret ridiculous Radha Soami cult with Clumsy Gurinder dhillion as head physco.

Endless tea parties and a huddle with a cuddle with the ladies and a sing with a leg swing, dance show.

What moral beliefs, what are standards?
Tribal and man made beliefs which indulge in self fulfilling prophecies. How embarrassing stupid.

Have a little shame, smurf of a man

[Uchit]

@sponser
@Hear, O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Dt 6:4-5
@Hear the Lord and automatically you will love the lord with all your heart, soul and might. You listen. Just hear.

Here we go again, an RSSB agent totally twisting the words of the bible to manipulate them into the teaching of the RSSB belief of the shabad, the bell sound, the flute sound ..etc. So what are you hearing you may ask? Nothing but breadcrumbs trail to GSDs /Lucifers spiders web, a one way trip back into the reincarnation prison, and slavery of a fake guru that wants to suck your mind body and soul for eternity.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um and Uchit
As I wrote above
"Find the Bible written inside you. It is the only one that matters."

The Holy Bible is filled with many beautiful mystic sayings, but as many stories of utter debauchery, violence, Homophobia and mysogeny.

So find the Bible in your own heart. Then you will see the gems scattered all about.

[um]

@ Spence

>>So find the Bible in your own heart. .<<

Again ...
What I wrote is not about what is "in" bible but how people deal what is in the bible and how it came to be there.

I again and again used the stories related to Abraham and Moses as an example of how so called inner experiences are processed. and upon that the value that is attached to the source of the inner experience..

Having said that, the conclusion must be that these experiences are individual and cannot be generalized even if the content of the experience tells about humanity or this or that tribe.

The very fact that you have experiences in which you can converse with a person that looks like a person you have known in the past, does not mean that that person appears to you and is accessible to all. .... You are like Abraham to which an experience promised a piece of land to a person and his tribe. If that person has an existence of its own, a reality of its own .... it failed to inform the other nations, tribes and leaders thereof, that he had done so. So nobody receivedthe message of that same spokesperson in your experience, to heed your words. ... I certainly had not such an experience.

It is alright that these experiences make you happy and help you to go through life and face the obstacles you have ....but they do not have meaning in the life of others and it should not be suggested they could and should. Because than you attribute those experiences to an causal force beyond you and accessible for all humanity and that is not correct.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You write
"It is alright that these experiences make you happy and help you to go through life and face the obstacles you have ....but they do not have meaning in the life of others and it should not be suggested they could and should. Because than you attribute those experiences to an causal force beyond you and accessible for all humanity and that is not correct."

Actually, It is correct that we are all products of forces beyond our limited comprehension that affect all humanity. But we can learn more about them. All science proves this.

To understand and witness them is part of our learning and development. So we should find out what is inside us, our own beliefs, while we also learn about reality testing in this physical existence. This body has capacity for all three.

The beliefs and biases, which we take as fact, naturally color our experiences. Learning more about them can take us to the borders of our unconscious and help us understand the inner and outer experience better. Symbols may reflect actual truths, another kind of universal language built into us; and our personal assumptions about science and fact may be slanted.

Naturally leaning is a personal process. Your truth and mine are going to be different in appearance, even if they are based upon the same forces. So long as those are unseen we must interpret, symbolize, translate. When they are fully seen they are what they are and no further symbols are needed. Such a person only uses those to discuss these things with others who may not have a full experience yet. But that conversation is very similar to the conversation between those without any tangible experiences, trying to clarify their subjective experience.

The field, the weather, our clothes and our training definitely effect our morning run. But it's the same process. Some run further and understand their body and the environment a little better.

But each learns all this for themselves. So it's always a personal experience.

Your remark that someone should have told us makes little sense. Creation is speaking to us all the time. We still have our personal part to play.

[um]

@ Spence

I never said that somebody or something should have said something but the very fact that the voices that speak to one, never speak to others.

Only Abraham was told that his tribe was the chosen people and the land was theirs.

The fact that nobody else was informed tells its own tale about ALL spiritual messages that people have .... that they have it alone ..... and that the source the speak of is only theirs.

There is nothing to learn about forces ... nothing .... we only discover how to use them ... but that is not knowledge.

We are here and that is all.

[um]

@ Spence

As that voice that spoke to Mozes etc never spoke to the rest of the world, to heed his words, we only have the words of Moses.

The same holds for you.

Moses is not the problem, neither are you Spence ... it needs nothing special to understand that Moses and you cannot but speak up based on your experiences.

The problem lies with us who only have the ....HEAR-SAY ...

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
Hearsay is just like a formula. It may be the truth, it may be false. Your experience of putting it into action determines whether it is truthful for you.

If Moses alone witnessed God few would follow him. It is only because others witnessed the same thing.. The Spirit, Christ. That inner corroboration created faith and a willingness to follow.

St. Paul wrote about that also..

"10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
1 Corinthians 10:1-4

Paul tells us that it wasn't just Moses' experience alone, as you have assumed. Many of Moses ' followers drank of the same spiritual elixer, sure the same spiritual food.

Indeed it was the same experience as those following Jesus. No different, teaches Paul.

[um]

@ Spence

Descriptions of apple pies, however intriguing, sophisticated etc are not tasty ...
they are as dry as the paper they are written on, difficult to swallow and to digest.

And ... I never said, that because I don't eat that pie, others never did. The pie they eat has only meaning for them.

As long as a person has no personal experience about the self, the soul, god, inner masters, sound etc etc ... he can only have a mental concept.

These concepts are empty and the things referred too in those concepts are non existent ... they are just words. ... hearsay.

You see spence, the bible and all other books like that, tell a one sided story; a story that is all too much related to their all too worldly desires and needs.

Nowhere and never that same god of the Hebrews, of abraham and Moses, considered by them the ONE AND ONY GOD, spoke to the other tribes and peoples of the world, that were also created by him.

Was there ever an Hebrew theologian, that asked in the sense it is said Christ did:
"Father why, oh why for heavens sake, did you abandon the rest of humanity? Why, ...... what have they done wrong to you, that you favor us above the rest"?

Ask your inner master, the giver, why he refuses to give to others what you receive in abundance.

No mystic of any school was ever informed by means of inner experience about the contents of the bible and no Hebrew or Christian mystic was informed about the inner experiences of the mystics elsewhere in the world ... all telling that there is just one god for all.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You write
"As long as a person has no personal experience about the self, the soul, god, inner masters, sound etc etc ... he can only have a mental concept."

Everyone has a personal experience. Each of us chooses to focus on a specific aspect. And what we focus on we learn more about.

Any book of reflections or results has relevance to the experience of those working to develop their own.

You write
" No mystic of any school was ever informed by means of inner experience about the contents of the bible and no Hebrew or Christian mystic was informed about the inner experiences of the mystics elsewhere in the world .."

I think it works the other way. Different people have had similar internal experiences and explain it in different culture-bound terms. But it's pretty much the same experience, since the physical body is similar, and the creation operates through different time and location on the same principles.

[um]

@ Spence

>>I think it works the other way. Different people have had similar internal experiences and explain it in different culture-bound terms. But it's pretty much the same experience, since the physical body is similar, and the creation operates through different time and location on the same principles<<

That is not the point. Many people all over the world have inner experiences. The question is what they do with it and how they explain the source of that experience.