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December 25, 2020

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I think it is wise to accept anyone's testimony of their personal experience, as their truth. As for myself, that truth changes as I grow. I'm happy to accept that truth for myself today, and continue the journey to the truth I will understand tomorrow, which I do not today. For me the meditation practice is an essential tool in that journey, foundational to my own development, though it is by no means the force behind it. That force involves the subconscious mind. Each of us has one, and no, none of us fully understand her. And so long as we don't, we are still under the sway of a foreign power

"I see all around me how people are being tricked into some cult or other whether a political ideology, a religious one or any scam at all."

I'm always a little nervous concluding the world is wrong. Still so many bad leaders and so many, many followers. And all of it filtered through my own way of thinking. How nice to believe our team is above all that. But when I consider that thought, I think I may have a glimpse into the problem that still tends to persist in each of us.

We can each share our journeys. If the post author is in a better, more peaceful place, a more authentic place today, bravo! Their movement is progress, but imho no one can claim their journey to truth is a fait acompli.

Here is a truth that has personal evidence. The JoHari window.
https://www.communicationtheory.org/the-johari-window-model/

When considering who we are, there is what we see about ourselves, and what we don't see.
And there is what others see, and what others don't see.

Combine these two dimensions and you get four window panes.
1. What I know or believe about myself (could be true or not)....
a. That others also see (may believe it, may not)
b. That others don't see... My private understanding of myself.. Secrets I hold, etc.. May be correct, may be incorrect.

2. What I don't see or know about myself....or don't believe..
a. That others do see.
b. That no one sees... Not even me.


Our life's journey might at times focus on others ' blindness and inaccuracy about the world, themselves or us, but what about our own accuracy and understanding of ourselves? We all have a Window Number 2.b.no one sees our knows about. And even the ones we do see and think we know, how accurate are we or others? What other form of "measurement" do we have access to for some independent feedback and corroboration?

And what about Window 2.a.? What we don't know or refuse to accept that others plainly see? How good are we at dealing with the inconvenient truths about ourselves?

Worst case scenario, Is leaving any path of personal development a means of simply pushing information from window 2.a. Into 2.b?

And Windows 2.a. and 2.b. do influences us, others around us, and are a part of who we are. We affect others even if no one sees or understands or accepts it as fact. It is still fact.

Perhaps that should be our main focus and practice moving forward. Certainly we can act on what we now know. Expanding Windows 1.a. and 1.b., and improving their accuracy, and shrinking Windows 2.a. and b., by learning, seems our most important focus.

If rejecting one school of personal development for another gets results by first showing us that Window 2.b. exists and may be uncomfortably larger than we knew, and helps us accept more of what was in window 2.a., that's good. That's a deeper integration with more of itself. And it is a painful process. Greater harmony among the different parts of ourself is the reward.

Whatever we do that helps us more accurately understand and accept ourselves is the right move.

Whatever we do to reject some truths about ourselves can only be the right move if it buys us time to grieve and learn to accept what we had rejected about ourselves. It's a temporary step, actually a momentary pause while we digest what we have learned so far. And that pause for integration, which we create by walking away from that daylight into night is in fact a healthy and important part of the process. We have to digest food in order to incorporate it.

So accept what you have rejected for the purpose of digesting and owning what you know now, and then to return to that path of development, however you build it within yourself. No need to live in the past. It was all good. It got you here. Keep going.

Because there is no such thing as path or teacher but the version we filter, recreate, reinterpret within ourselves. No right or wrong but what we make of it that helps us move forward or gets in our way. But sometimes things getting in our way are detours away from a flooded road, a fatal cliff. Accept the detours.

No one actually walks any other path. Just the version they create.

When you listen to the Q and A sessions you are hearing people trying to mold their path to their expectations, using the Master as a sounding board and a point of reference. But whatever he or she says, these same people who may be corrected, their same judgment, is the ultimate ruler over what they will interpret and accept. So they are just building their own path. And the first step to adulthood is accepting this basic fact, living it fully. Because that is the same truth for all of us. We are always building, deconstructing, reconstructing our own path. No one takes a step unless they choose where to place their own feet.

Thank you Tepper for your thoughtful and civil Critique of the post that Brian placed on my behalf. It was intended as a thank you to Brian for this amazing resource he has provided for free to any struggling former of present members of the RSSB thing. Or in any dubious cult, and so forth.
You were perfectly correct in pointing out that my stating “I see all around me how people are being tricked into some cult or other whether a political ideology, a religious one or any scam at all." Was not truly reflective of my present scrutiny that I examine all such requests to me to follow a pitch in a more critical manor.
I would also like you to note that I did not intend to say I had completed my Journey, please note I stated “But undoubtedly a sense of being a liberated human being” Sense as in feel.
I also realise that even though I signed of with the proclamation and happily proclaim I am out of and free of the Cult of Sant mat. Please if you like substitute to,
Deep Deep South
A recovering ex cult member.
(And please do not take that as giving quarter to the cultists to say “That’s what you think”)

@ Deep deep south

Throughout life as I struggled with religious matters, first the religion I was born in and later spirituality, I did my best to find out why I could not manifest the same things as others told that they had or that could be had. In all cases i was told that the cause was to be found in the lack of effort or the transgression of rules of life that were part of the religion or later a spiritual school or some other thing.

When the day came that i woke up in the cinema and was no longer lost in the religious / spiritual movie shown on the screen, there was a great relief.

No longer forced to find a cause, little by little i started to realize that I didn't have nor ever had that faith, love etc that is needed to bring anything worth-full spiritual in life to a final conclusion.

This understanding has set me free .... as there is no need to find fault with the religious and spiritual movements i was involved in, or with their teachers, teachings or their organisation.

Finding fault is yet another way of attachment as blind believe is.

If one does not love the thing one does and the people involved, one can wait for the day that some imperfections are seen and once they are seen and attention is given to it those spots of focus will grow and grow until they become a dark menacing cloud in the mind.

There is nothing wrong outside you and if you see it, it is inside you. and it will be a burden to get rid of it.

Hi Deep Deep South
Thank you for your reply. My comments were actually more on the line of "where do I go next" rather than a critic of the choices that brought you to where you are. That is a custom path you are building from the only truth that matters, what resonates as right or wrong within you.

I don't think you are making a statement about Sant Mat. That is only a context, like the sky. For some it is blue and sunny today. For others cloudy. And others still, frighteningly stormy. They are all absolutely true.

The point is the process of liberation, which is a continuing effort and practice, however we build it. Like an Ant farm, the builders build from whatever is within them, adapting to their environment. Because it comes from within themselves it is always the truth.

Well done, you have freed yourself from the RSSB path. RSSB is collapsing and GSD is desperate in keeping his empire intact. I totally congratulate your bravery in coming out of the spiders web which is totally rotten to the core. Be careful as now you are free you will have agents of rssb outside and also on this very sight, of which spensor is one, who will put doubt and try and draw you in another way back into the devils trap. They will drag you into the same thing, spensor worships GSD, and that's what he says guides him on inside, he calls it the spirit- in reality he has never questioned the entity he talks to on the inside and trusts it and has taken a gamble as it gives him flashing lights. If you can't trust a stranger on the outside, how can you trust entities on the inside?. You will have to fight peoples opinions from friends and family, and even your own emotions of guilt of not going back to satsang, as that too is a tool that the dark side can use to manipulate you back in its web of religion or cults. Watch your dreams as they are also manipulated by the dark side. Stay strong and look at the facts infront of you, use your critical thinking and gut and you will be ok. The devil has many tricks up his sleeve to trick you into another similar path so be very aware of spinoffs of rssb, ie ishwar puri and others. Enjoy your freedom and live your own dreams and try not to fall for cults like this pathetic rssb trap. Good luck on your journey back to source.

Ishwar Puri passed on recently.

https://www.facebook.com/663113923762349/photos/a.1992976547442740/5000031053403926/?type=3&theater

How is RSSB a cult?

A cult:

a) seeks to strip you of all your money, whereas rssb don’t ask you for a cent. Instead they feed and give free healthcare to the poor. How terrible.

b) forces you to give up all possessions and live 24/7 in some compound tending to the needs of the prophet. Rssb does the opposite - it encourages you to make your own way in life independently, to make your own living.

c) a cult has ‘zero’ tolerance for other beliefs. Rssb is for people of different faiths or those without a religion. What a strange cult this is. There are mainstream religions that go to war for such reasons, let alone cults.

d) a cult often has ‘backward’ beliefs that are harmful. Rssb is founded on progressive principles - don’t harm or cause suffering to others, vegetarianism, equality to all, having a ‘clean’ mind free from alcohol or drugs. RSSb comes out of a Sikh background - just compare rssb to the Sikh view of equality, treatment of women, tolerance, war and note the differences.

e) a cult will not allow you to leave. Doing so is on pain of death, as is any negative talk against it, let alone slander. Instead this very site is testament to ppl that come and go as they wish, and slander freely without retribution or recourse. Has rssb or the guru ever mentioned a single word to any of you or asking you to stop? No. I tell you what if you think you so brave, and want to test out what a cult is, post a cartoon or some slander about mainstream religions and see what happens to you.

In summary, rssb believes in non-harm and equality. It provides food and healthcare to the poor. No one forced you to join nor prevented you from leaving. You don’t pay for membership and rssb don’t require anything from you.

What kind of heinous terrible cult is this?

Seems like ppl are always reporting about GSD flirting and acting inappropriately with young women at Haynes Park. These reports have been circulating for years. Why Haynes Park - what is going on there?

@ But over the first year I realised I had not only left santmat but any belief in any deity behind. Not the
@ liberation of my mythical soul that I had signed on for. But undoubtedly a sense of being a liberated
@ human being.

Bravo on liberating. But one of the advantages of mysticism is there's no
purity test. No requirement for belief in God, upper regions, or feeling
worshipful of the stage actor whether GSD or anyone else. It's rather
about discarding false belief and increasing awareness about what's
inside. That's the real liberation.

Mystics provide a simple practice for achieving that realization and
the true mystic will advise you to follow it only so long as it works
for you in validating its promises. If you view RSSB as rife with
gangsterism, you may want to just pursue a path of mindfulness.
The real path leads you back within... whatever its outward form
happens to be.

@Hawkeye Pierce

In summary, rssb believes in non-harm and equality. It provides food and healthcare to the poor. No one forced you to join nor prevented you from leaving. You don’t pay for membership and rssb don’t require anything from you.

That being correct, there are other ways to define a "cult".
The same organisation, membership etc can have a different effect on different people due to their background, mental make up etc. Protestants tend to be Satsangis in a protestant way, Indians in an Indian way etc etc.and what to say of those that carry with them this or that psychological problem. Not being a cult as defined by you there are those who are satsangis in a cultish way.

The growing and expanding top down organisation in, national and local sangats, has grown to be a problem and behaviours are reported that are worthy of a cult.

But these are maybe just things that are part of the atmosphere of all modern worldly multinationals.

More of a problem is the suggestive language that is used in books, the way how satsangis talk about santmat. Language that resembles the way how lotteries are sold or how young Americans are made to believe that all can become president.
Of course that is true. If one buys a ticket in a lottery one can win that lottery. ...BUT ... the chance that a particular individual wins is almost nil. The same holds for becoming president of the USA.

To give an example just read the last two paragraphs of the Dawn of light. There it says that since 1911 a growing number of Americans daily meet their master at morning meditation and goes on to say that one day these disciples will be led through the maze of the higher regions in order to become one with the lord.

What is written there as something that is to be expected for most, the reality is the opposite.

And apart from this suggestive perspective, there is the tale itself, the message that has all qualities of propaganda. or the pied piper of Hamlin.

Yes Hawkeye Pierce as long as one is lost in a beautiful story in a book or on a movie screen one naturally has the feeling of being on ones way to a grand finale and yes, it is not kind to wake people up and have them enjoy their dream, a dream that can last to the very end of their life but if it is ones fate to wake up things are not that simple to say the least.

Yes, I do believe there were, are and will be people that have an experience that make them believe that there is "a kingdom of heaven inside". Yes I do understand that they want to find ways so that others can partake in that same joy but that is questionable.

They say follow me, do as I do etc what I say are not my commands, they are the commands of the lord .... but ...hawkeye ... that same lord forgot to tell the other people to heed the words of these so called messengers.

That messenger of the lord that appearedbefore abraham and promissed a piece of land to his tribe forgot to inform the rest of humanity that he did made that promise to abraham... so in the end we just have ONE and ONLY ONE human being that SAID he heard a message of the lord ... and the rest believe what they HEARD HIM SAY ... leaving them with empty hands in terms of proving to themselves the truth of what they accepted.

@ Hawkeye

and .... If I look outside and see the trees and the birds, whatever there is has everything it needs to survive both inside and outside. The only difference with human beings is that they can re-created their natural habitat wherever they happen to go; a freedom all other species lack.

It would be utmost cruel, just to use a typical human adjective, if there was a creator and did not provide all species the means to live and make them dependent on others.

So ....IF there was or is a PURPOSE in life other than to survive and that was not made clear to each and every human being from the very moment of birth, that TOO would be cruel.

And given that cruelty is not to be found in nature, there cannot be a purpose other that the one an individual wishes to ATTACH to his or her life.

Just cause the guru enjoys reading the Kama sutra doesn’t make him a perv. It was originally written by a priest as he tells it.

LOOK AGAIN HAWKEYE, YOU HAVE BEEN FOOLED

@a) seeks to strip you of all your money, whereas rssb don’t ask you for a cent. Instead they feed and give free healthcare to the poor. How terrible.

RSSB take money subliminally. They put seva boxes along paths so people walk into them; also GSD is more interested in grabbing money and land than donating a penny to his own RSSB investment: don't forget seva (slavery in disguise) is nothing but giving energy which is equivalent to money.

@b) forces you to give up all possessions and live 24/7 in some compound tending to the needs of the prophet. Rssb does the opposite - it encourages you to make your own way in life independently, to make your own living.

The RSSB cult has been rapidly expanding, a using I would say a worldwide market penetration strategy and aggressively buying properties. It wants to suck as many people in as possible. It is creating a dependency on an organisation, which is a weak foundation build on a leader that is a crook.

@c) a cult has ‘zero’ tolerance for other beliefs. Rssb is for people of different faiths or those without a religion. What a strange cult this is. There are mainstream religions that go to war for such reasons, let alone cults.

This cult adopts beliefs from Hinduism, sikhism and christianity; they will just about suck anyone in who is foolish enough not to think for himself. The cults Beliefs/ rituals; going satsangs weekly, parshad, darshan .etc

@d) a cult often has ‘backward’ beliefs that are harmful. Rssb is founded on progressive principles - don’t harm or cause suffering to others, vegetarianism, equality to all, having a ‘clean’ mind free from alcohol

These are high principles and are unobtainable and hard to achieve in the real world. The cult uses these to punish you into a sinful mindset, create submission, regret, shame and anchor you deeper into the path.

@e) a cult will not allow you to leave. Doing so is on pain of death, as is any negative talk against it, let alone slander.

Have you not heard in the satsangs many times from GSD that if you leave, the dogs will come to get you. That they will pull you like a bulldozer. They want your mind body and soul.

@ No one forced you to join nor prevented you from leaving. You don’t pay for membership and rssb don’t require anything from you.

You surrender everything, even your real family for your new brothers and sisters in your fake sanctuary, the so called dera. Your mind is subdued by books from saints all edited by RSSB, and telling only the points that benefits the cult, ie love the living master, surrender, do seva blindly.
To top it up a cult has a charismatic leader, and GSD is one sly fox. A slimey slithery snake that has been trying to hide in plain site for along time. This is the information age and people are waking up to the devils deceptions.

Congratulations on becoming a Free Soul and leaving such a Sickening Satanic Satsangi Cult behind.
This will really be a Happy New Year for you!

You have truly Experienced and Exposed the truth of what this wicked evil twisted cult is all about.

This is one of, if not the only indian Cult which lies constantly, manipulates and contradicts every single thing that they preach.
Take Ghastly Gurinder aka GSD is there anything he personally hasn't done in his not so perfect life. His track record is not something to be proud off by any means. An total Embarrassment to society, period.

Here's something a little birdy told me once ...

Beware of GSD, he has evil powers which isn't hard to believe when you know on whose behalf he's working for. What you think is darshan, when he comes on to that stage is nothing more than a evil spell which he weaves with his eyes on the whole of the sangat. In time the disciple becomes Spellbound.
That's the real secret of this rs cult. Believe it or if you wish to, not.

Remember the Devil is a Liar, and good one at that too.

As you can see on here there are a handful of GSD fanatical fans who have taken a wrong turn somewhere and ended up on here, giving they're 10 cents of bull. Save it, stop feeding your lame lies.
In reality we all know and have seen the truth, even if we want to play, ignorance is bliss.

Another soul sets free, to fly ones journey back home.
Now that's what you call real seva, Brian
priceless!


Thank you both Ulchit and Manoj. For your constructive and understanding of the trauma of turning my back on the cult of GSD. Your two postings were clear to understand and did not try to get me to wander back with a big mea-culpa.
I was staggered to get such a tirade of misinformation and confused thought that my original email to Brian caused.
Most of the posting were the sort of contradictory and distorted truths that I have been listening to in sat-sangs for 30 odd years. What makes the posters of that stuff think they can undo this separating of myself from such a cult.
When I mentioned that it was these sorts of things, talked about by Miss Judy, that disgusted me, it brought forth posters saying that it was at Haynes Park in the UK that these things were taking place. I have never been to that place; they are happening in another center far away from India or the UK. Like these not noticed or explained away by the devotees. It is endemic as far as I can tell from discussions, I have had both here and with friends at centers all around the world. As are all the bad behaviors of sevadars.
GSD does all the same disgusting stunts around the world.
I wish everyone a Happy new Year. May I say that if you are unsure of staying in the Cult perhaps it is time to move on.

Deep Deep South,

Be brave and break free. You are headed in the right direction now.

@Deep Deep South
If we rely on what others say or how they behave we will never know if we’re being fooled into a path or out of a path.
Turning inwards and connecting with the self is the only chance we have of ever finding out the truth as that is the only direct connection we have with our source. One that is not adulterated by ‘others’.
Our own experience is far more authentic than what others have experienced. And when we evaluate our own experience, we must rely on the ‘inner’ experience and not the ‘outer’ experience because the inner experience is purely between us and our source. Where as outer experiences involve the same ‘others’.

......... and so, whether we stay on a path or leave it - no one but ourselves can tell us if we are headed in the right direction or not.

Ishwar Puri passed on recently.

https://www.facebook.com/663113923762349/photos/a.1992976547442740/5000031053403926/?type=3&theater

Posted by: Brian ji | December 26, 2020 at 10:03 PM

Ishwar spoke about characteristics of a PLM. His list of non-PLM traits described GSD.

Ishwar and Gurinder looked to be about the same age but there was actually almost a 30 year age difference between the two.

Ishwar looks a little younger but is much older and wiser.

The greatest measure that you are making progress is that you are free to learn more about yourself, the care and feeding of your own well being, the inner journey of self - discovery. Not simply liberation from mental prison, because leaving one cell isn't enough to be free. We must leave the building. Then we are free to explore, self - exploration, self - discovery. . You must have a level of liberation for that even to begin. And then, the journey to discover new places, new states of being within yourself. Whatever gives you that freedom, insight and energy to discover within yourself about yourself, develop your own latent abilities, that is progress. It may look completely different for different people. We must make the path for ourselves. It is a path of leaving the old, but that means nothing unless it is also a path of further journeying and discovery. To find and leave the wrong is helpful. It is essential. To find what is right for you, healthy for you, and even to find more about what and who you really are, this is the way. Then you know the choice was a good one.

......... and so, whether we stay on a path or leave it - no one but ourselves can tell us if we are headed in the right direction or not.

Posted by: GP | December 28, 2020 at 01:09 AM

You are soooooooo full of sh*t

@Deep Deep South,

Don’t be fooled by anything GP or Hawkeye say. They are lying trolls who spend their time try to fix GSD’s public image.

If you’re running AWAY from RSSB then you’re on the right path. Who needs a guru full of anger, list and greed. His mantra is the 5 passions. Run as fast as you can!

Deep Deep South,

I hear what you're saying, "I can't practice because Gurinder is imperfect and sets a bad example." I'm 35 years in myself. Can you guess my favorite excuse? "I can't practice because Maharaj Charan Singh Ji is TOO perfect and sets an example I can never live up to!"

Mind will always make excuses. GSD, so what? Satsang, so what? Practice makes perfect, not church. Four basic vows to wrestle with until we get right. Find your own motivations.

Never say never. It took me this long before the wrinkles finally started to smooth a little.

@ now it all Anami, Not.

You know it in your heart and your'e so full of it.
You reak a bad smell of GSD.

A so called Baffoon Baba full of worldly desires, living out a life of eye opening fantasies is disgusting and dame disgraceful.
Utter Buffoonery

Stop always trying to mask, Cow dungg as a Cake!

To all the people who advocate GSD. I have two simple questions for them.... GSD talks about Sant Mat...and you all think GSD is a Sant(Saint) or a God in human form.
All the saint whether Kabir, Tulsi, Surdas, Guru Nanak, Farid, Bulle Shah lived a very simple life.. didn't have many properties, financial dealings or made fortune for their children. All the saints raised voice against any injustice they noticed. Even Guru Nanak said Babar a Jabar, Jesus, Guru Arjan, Guru Teg Bahadur, Guru Govind all gave their life to fighting for injustice.
Does GSD lives a simple life?
Did GSD (or any previous RSSB gurus) ever raised the voice against any injustice?

Both answers are NO

GSD lives like a king, big properties, slaves sevadar, financial dealings, business class travel, private plane.... doesn't even work for livelihood, which is the maim principal of santmat.

GSD never raised any voice against any injustice (presently farmers are suffering in Punjab), Punjab suffered in terrorism..many indian governments did lots of injustice but no voice came from GSD
I remember once someone raised a similar questions to GSD and he said RSSB isreligious charity not Social Charity.

People just need to compare GSD with any Saint..how they lived their life and how GSD is living..that will be enough to open their eyes

Once people raised a doubt on Guru Nanak that he is meddling with account when he was working in a shop. Guru Nanak opened his accounts and let authority check everything and nothing was found.
GSD didn't let people see his account when he was accused. Court had to order him to submit his Income Tax details which he submitted in sealed envelope and requested court not to disclose it to open public...that is a difference in a real saint and fraud.
I am not sure we will ever found GSD real financial dealing as Indian system is too corrupt and there is a very thin possibilities that we will see the truth as GSD has great relationship with the Indian government

I live in India and we have lots of crook in each city sone are small and some are big...GSD is a biggest one with a huge no of blind followers and political support...so light of truth might never come out from dark clouds

@Spencer or should I say agent sponsoserd by RSSB / lucifer
@then, the journey to discover new places, new states of being within yourself. Whatever gives you that freedom, insight and energy to discover within yourself about yourself, develop your own latent abilities, that is progress.

Hes trying to trick you to follow an entity inside, this entity will give him temporary bliss/ flashy lights and sounds and powers, but it's a trap to get you back into the spiders web. This entity will eventually engulf you and destroy you. The snake is trying to slither itself in different ways so be careful of these agents of the devil .

The real meditation is to sit in silence and focus within - not to seek out any entity or flashing lights. No need to visualise on any image or form.

The darkness within will embrace your inner core and you will realize the selfless Love & Oneness.of the Creator.

"..What makes the posters of that stuff think they can undo this separating of myself from such a cult.

When I mentioned that it was these sorts of things, talked about by Miss Judy, that disgusted me"

Posted by: Deep Deep South | December 27, 2020 at 07:38 PM

Dear Deep deep South, I'm sorry that your decision comes from a post from a person who just could be completely incorrect.

Re:
https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2020/12/well-stated-criticism-of-rssb-guru-and-satsangi-behavior.html

"I have observed baba ji since 1980s.." (quoting post)

1st off. This lady sounds very misinformed, as I recall Maharaj Ji passed away in 1990. So the only RSSB 'Baba' before then was Maharaj Ji (Charan Singh), wasn't it?

"..Further Baba has a habit of making sexual innuendos and act all lively when young girls get up to ask him questions - I find it off-putting and question the path..

..Wake up, and Make your own minds up!" (quoting post)

Second and lastly, let's look up this word innuendo:

at 1(a)
: an oblique allusion : HINT
(source)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innuendo

Make up our minds? But this misinformed lady has just alluded that she knows the thoughts of others, and that she can 'READ' Baba Ji's mind.

Too bad a good ethical person like yourself has come to such a conclusion from the post of a mind reader.

Good luck and may the Spirit o Maharaj Ji Charan be with you -always.

What I am left with now is the direction before me not a side trip of going into yet another god mind guru game. the straight road is one led by proven facts not man created religions. just one step of empirical evidence at a time, will do me. checking in to now here and building on that. testing with science and logic.
Not with the so-called science of the soul.
Doing now what I should have done 40 years ago. Give me one single piece of evidence that there is a god, and I shall be listening, anything else will not change this for me.
Deep Deep South.

@ Give me one single piece of evidence that there is a god, and I shall be listening,
@ anything else will not change this for me.

But how could you believe the evidence someone else presented to
you? There would always be doubt unless you saw the evidence
yourself. Short of that, even if a conjurer materialized a precious
object, miraculously healed the dying, or science published a
compelling unassailable proof, you'd still wonder if it were true.
That is, you'd still want to understand the evidence, experience it
in some way to make it comprehensible.

After all, if it's really God, it's everywhere and that knowledge
should be available to everyone without a PhD. That's why
the mystics suggest you need to look within. To find God,
if there is one, and experience that proof yourself would be
the goal, To watch your thoughts, concentrate your attention
on that elusive force that is everywhere but has never been
real to you. Otherwise, if you just nod your head and say I
believe someone else's words -no matter who they are or
how impressive- it's just like religion.

more mystical nothingness. Dungeness do better show me proof not mishmash of words that you just put out as such.

@ Give me one single piece of evidence that there is a god, and I shall be listening,
@ anything else will not change this for me.

Posted by: Dungeness | December 28, 2020 at 10:12 PM

Pardon madam, I assume this was directed at me.

Mr. Deep Deep South, as I stated above your decision to me sounds a bit rash for someone who worked for so long in the RSSB lane.

Yet again, I do wish you luck. For the lane of science and logic is much more complex than practicing ahimsa

@ Dungeness do better show me proof not mishmash of words
@ that you just put out as such.

That's the point. No one can show you the proof. Certainly
no words, no priests, no holy books, no photo, no scholarly
article. It must be sought inside within consciousness itself.

@Karim,

GSD only cares about two things—the size of his house and his playboy magazines. YOU wake up.

RSSB no longer holds any semblance of truth because everyone believes the little man in white to be God in the flesh. And this little man never talks about the inner regions, doesn’t give discourses and only interacts with satsangis through Q&As which are basically a joke. He makes lewd and offensive comments, talks about crude and disgusting things such as his bathroom habits and gawks at females while consistently make inappropriate remarks and sexual innuendos. Does anyone really care what happened to his wife? It was a disgrace. An absolute disgrace. And any man who could treat his wife that way (do some research) is not someone you would ever want to be in the same room with let alone worship or take spiritual advice from. He is an abomination.

"1980s"

Good catch, Karim!

@ Posted by: Dungeness | December 28, 2020 at 10:12 PM
@ Pardon madam, I assume this was directed at me.

Er, pardon me, madam/sir for stepping on any perceived turf. But, as I understand
it, the blog's content is open to all who choose to comment on it. Of course, whether
a comment is published, is always the sole discretion of the moderator.

@ Seeker
Hilariously Funny
Disturbing and So Sickening Sickly, but So True!

GSD a Bent Bad Behaviored Baba whose is crooked to the core and prays on the vunerable with lustful innuendos. And a record which should put him away for a minimum of life.

And you think he resembles a god figure?

To all the so called GSD agents, karma will catch up with you very soon....

Stop insulting God! Prepare to rott in hell.
Blasphemy never pays

Hi Deep Deep South
You ask the ultimate question
"Doing now what I should have done 40 years ago. Give me one single piece of evidence that there is a god, and I shall be listening, anything else will not change this for me."

First you must have a definition, then you can investigate the evidence of it. But maybe the problem is the definition? Or the experience / evidence? Both are needed to have what you need to test any idea.

So we can discuss definitions of God. There are many.

Or you have some experience of something out of the ordinary and try to build a definition around it. Or you seek experience so you can create and test a definition for yourself.

But your understanding of that experience may change as you work to replicate and test it. And so what you called "God" you may one day call something else, maybe "brain chemistry", or "random event", Or you may end up calling "physical reality" a part of something greater, so elegant, balanced and unfathomably brilliant, you are inspired to label it "divinity".

But your Divinity may have little to do with the definition atheists and religious zealots are using. And you may realize that the nice scientific sounding "brain chemistry" label or "random event" label actually has very weak and limited evidence behind it today.

And so your definitions can change. People choose to believe or not believe and mold their logic around that choice. People take God on faith and in the practice of prayer they find the experience of peace, harmony and insight so compelling, so moving, they label that God. That recurring experience is their proof.

Logic and reason are like a great prostitute who will assume any position for a fee.

You are still constrained to your own version of logic and reason. No one can do better except to improve their own thinking, learning from others and their own experience, and thinking about it with greater discrimination. They can journey and research to increase their own education. That seems to me to be a great use of human life.

The reason logic and reason are so malleable is that they are based upon agreed premises, rules. Among those who agree upon those rules, logic leads to unerring conclusions and is a means to eliminate false thinking, and help people raise their thinking and the accuracy of their understanding. But logic is extremely vulnerable to those agreed rules, and core accepted experiences. And so conclusions do change over time, with new information, or refined definitions, or even lost experience, lost knowledge. People can begin to think whites are better than blacks, and all Jews should be murdered all over again simply by discrediting knowledge. Science can move backwards, using reason, when education falters.

When science adds something new, when your own experience adds something new, the conclusions change. When people forget, our when old theories, though not disproven, simply fall from popularity, the common logic also changes. What once appeared preposterous ("man will fly? Never, that's only for birds. Man isn't meant to fly" ), now becomes possible, and then a matter of mundane fact. But seen from a different perspective, can also return to "man will never fly".

If you want to find God you will. And if you want to find proof there is no God, you will. But it's all on you, your investigation. And so the real answer to your question is what is inside you.

God is within, many believe (including me) and there are many different meditation practices for exploring within. And there is much scientific evidence that these practices are very healthy for you, your body, your mental health and cognitive functioning, and the health of your brain.

Like all endeavors they can be undertaken in a safe or unsafe way. If your mental health is decent, undertaken safely and with some minimal supervision, the journey of what is inside you is before you. You can call it God, or brain chemistry. Names mean nothing. But the experience of the incredible things and places inside you is a very worthy journey of discovery.

Whether God exists is really a moot point. Your subconscious mind, and regions of Internal experience, many of which are pure ecstacy, exist. The treasure is within you to experience, and you can label it once you see it for yourself.

When you see the moon above, the stars all around, and the earth below you from within your own meditation, more real than you witness your surroundings today, you can call that anything you like. Your joy will be boundless. That place is hard wired into your brain, you waiting for you to go there. And it is very healthy to do so.

Columbus called native Americans, Indians. That was a mistake. But he got there, and they are real people there, even misnamed, and he had the chance to experience them. Perhaps had he done so with an open mind he would have let them tell him their names.

Of course, no one back in Europe who hadn't been part of the journey was qualified to comment.

The boat is right within you, Deep Deep South. Find a method that isn't weighted down with cultural, religious or other issues, and if possible, someone who travels there regularly who can help you make safe passage. You have plenty to choose from.

@Manoj

If RSSB were a corporation with an HR department, they’d be getting sued left, right and center. But as it is, all these little girls think they’re getting special attention from God when in reality they’re being pursued by a sexual predator. #metoo, #youtoo. The REL investigation isn’t over. Time will tell. It always does. There are no checks and balances in RSSB. It’s a dictatorship.

@spensor
@The boat is right within you, Deep Deep South. Find a method that isn't weighted down with cultural, religious or other issues, and if possible, someone who travels there regularly who can help you make safe passage. You have plenty to choose from

The agent of the entity you call GSD which he calls the spirit is at it again. Looks like Spensor is doing his seva for it. Stop throwing "methods" down a guy that is now free. Stop trying to shakle him up with the inner GSD entity, we know your game and it's not nice. FREE means FREE, no chains.

Spence Tepper at least you have taken some time to try to help me. For that you deserve applause. You have made many assumptions about me to arrive at that argument.
1. you assume I have never experienced the inner journey- not so.
2. You assume I have never had internal bliss-not so.
3. You assume “When you see the moon above, the stars all around, and the earth below you from within your own meditation, more real than you witness your surroundings today, you can call that anything you like. Your joy will be boundless. That place is hard wired into your brain, you waiting for you to go there. And it is very healthy to do so”
I have often been in that internal space.
4. I know there is no deity that has a control over all these experiences. They exist but are not god given powers they are part of our human experience and open to all the good the bad the clever the stupid.
5. Any person or religion or cult that hijacks these as their own control methods. Are just a bunch of con artists.
Again I say show that god exists. I am waiting for more. When and if we were to meet an advanced alien that is all it would be, not a god.

@ deep deep south

Having read your statement and answers, i was wandering what kind of proof you are willing to accept given that all mystics, as far as I know and understand, base their poetry, teachings, claims etc on these very experiences, experiences that obvious are not enough for you.

Several times I wrote here about these experiences as being individual and used the story of the divine experience of Abraham to make a point ... the point being that IF there is an causal explanation, beyond the mind of Abraham, than that power that cause failed to inform the rest of humanity of his revelations and promises to Abraham. Meaning that we have just the word of ONE human being stating that the lord, God gave the land of Israel to the tribe of Abraham...the rest being HEARSAY and BELIEVE thereof.

Does that allow me to conclude that there is no God ... No.
Does that mean that the story told by Abraham and believed by his tribe is a lie .. No.

And .... upon reading the stories of many mystics, people with BDE's I do suppose that if such a thing would happen to me, I would not be able than to accept the experience as a greater, higher etc reality ... what needs not to be true.

So again how could you bypass that conclusion what many a mystic was not able too?

I wonder if it has something to do with what these mystics point at as "love" and that love being something else than what we normally consider it to be.

And did you converse with the one in whose name you were initiated 40 years ago?
Personally I think that the path indicated by your teacher starts there and not before.

https://www.siasat.com/religare-case-sfio-gets-hcs-nod-to-quiz-singh-brothers-others-2053381/

More news on the perfect living Master GSD. LOL

He's not out of the woods, just yet.

Rumor has it he's in hiding at Haynes Park U.K again

But GSDs cage is about to get rattled, hard.

Hold on tight.

The Turkeys made it past Christmas!

But will he make the next?

Drum roll...

"God" is a loaded term. When I'm GIHF, I'll use "All-You-Can-Eat Buffet," making me AYCEBIHF.

...and I can already imagine manoj, Uchit and Dragonslayer, "Buffet in human form??? He cooks with cow dung! Beware his devil's food cake!"

Enough, thank you all for you participation in this discussion, I leave knowing that a few of you understand. Simply stay away from the Guru Gangsters if you are able. All of the promised revelations are already available to each of you. you do not have to give them over to others to control you.
over and out Deep Deep South.

Hi DeepDeep South.
I'm sorry Deep Deep South but you have made some statements about me that I don't think are correct.


"Spence Tepper at least you have taken some time to try to help me. For that you deserve applause. You have made many assumptions about me to arrive at that argument.
1. you assume I have never experienced the inner journey- not so."

Not at all. I have no idea of your daily inner experiences. You have not alluded to them before, I only mention my own. I do this in answer to your question. You ask for evidence of God.

And as I wrote, whatever those internal experiences are can be labelled anything you like, even brain chemistry. It's OK. The label is our best thinking, but it's just a label. The reality is still there as it is. And that is a journey, Deep Deep South, not a completed one for any of us. So long as there is more to see and learn, we can't make presumptions about what we will learn tomorrow. So labels get old every day.

If you have shared similar experiences, then you understand there is a real path, regardless of its wrappings. That's all that matters. To pursue that.

You write:

"2. You assume I have never had internal bliss-not so."

Nowhere do I state any such thing. Most people have moments of bliss and happiness. Whatever is in you was given to you. So you can label that anything you like, But you can't rightly claim to experience something and then say it doesn't exist. You can call it biochemistry if you like, just as I mentioned before.

Evidence of God is all around. But your definition makes anything God or not God. One thing is certain, there is more in this creation than we can understand, and our access to it includes an inner pathway. It's all good from that perspective. Why do I call it God? Because behind every cause, every force of nature, every cell or atom, are other forces, other dynamics underneath those. It seems nearly infinite. The more we attend, either internally in meditation, or in scienfitic inquiry in this world, the more we look, the more there is under the surface. Just when we thought we knew it all, turns out there is more there, much more. It's infinite, as far as I can tell, being a finite entity but part of this infinite. So, being infinite, I call that God. God is infinite. There I have just created a nice sounding definition!

Is God intelligent? I think so. This stuff didn't just create itself. Oh wait minute, it did!! That is sheer genious!! It created itself! without all that human pondering, thinking, guessing, modeling? It just build the damn rocket ship? No prototypes? No blue prints? BAM internal space craft to the stars?
Yes, I call that God. And anyone who provides the method that worked for me, God. They are God, too. And when I read that you have experienced these things, that's God also. You are also God, Deep Deep South.

You may choose to comment upon Gurinder, if you like, if it helps. But in all events, just like the label "God", any other label is a matter of choice based upon the limited information each of us has. I think Gurinder is God. But that is only because I see God in Gurinder. He's in you and I also.

I think BrianJi is God's divine bulldozer, because he's tearing down the walls people build, and puling out the tons of bullshit and supersition that people pile up in their wall-building which is destructive to humanity.He's Hercules clean all the horseshit out of the Augean stables. It's heavy lifting. He has my admiration and love.

And we each can have different experiences. I honor your experiences and your choices. Proceed ahead! Whatever helps expand your awareness and understanding is a good thing! Whatever arrests your development isn't. Onward!

As Niels Bohr wrote, "The opposite of one truth may not be false. It may just be another truth."

If it is so for the physical world, it is certainly true for the psychological and social one.

@ Again I say show that god exists. I am waiting for more. When and if we were to meet
@ an advanced alien that is all it would be, not a god.

It's clear from your account of internal experiences that you've had
success on the path. But you didn't wait for someone to give proof
those experiences were possible, I suspect. Similar descriptions fill
the literature and confirm that it could be attained. So I presume you
drew inspiration from those examples and worked to achieve them .

In the same way, mystics say God can be realized within and you
can reach that level yourself. You'll demonstrate that advanced
spiritual awareness in every word and action. The fragrance of
perfection will be there even in your silence. But it's clear, there
aren't shortcuts.

Waiting to be shown explicit proof of God's existence equates to
only reading about those internal experiences you spoke of. It
wasn't and isn't enough. Waiting for an advanced soul to offer
clear proof of God will never be enough either. Mystics say live,
breathe, and internalize the path they've already shown you to
become God. Then you'll have your proof.

So it appears GSD is in the UK, Haynes park once again. Is he isolating , or more likly running away from the investigation team in dehli high court for serious fraud offenses. The only person that has not been put behind bars has to face his karma. Or is he updating his photo/porn collection of girls there now that he thinks he is free to do what he likes since the very suspicious and convenient death of his wife.

Who are Sunil Godhwani, Kavi Arora and Anil Saxena? Are they members of RSSB?

Islam seeks to help human sinners change into good Muslims. This is even open to sinners Atheist and RSSB alike.

If not for Baba Ji, I would have overlooked this from my own religion.
(True deen: HQ 16:114-115)

If you were initiated by Charan Singh then your devotion is for him and has nothing to do with Gurinder Singh.
If you are leaving the path because of Gurinder Singh then you are misguided.
As your Master is Charan Singh a Param Sant
Sat Guru. The highest of the high.
We who received Nam From Maharaji are truly blessed.
You have a personal relationship with your master. The master who initiated you and no other.
Do not pay attention to anyone else.

"Live a joyous life, fully relaxed and thanking the Lord for the great gift He has conferred upon you. Keep your thoughts in Simran and Bhajan and see what happiness you will find within yourself. Do not worry about anything in this life, which is all an unpleasant dream . The real life lies beyond, where your Master awaits you." Maharaj Charan Singh Ji

A Devoted Soul

A “Master” is just a human being with a spiritual occupation. But spiritually doesn’t have to be our job. Spirituality has nothing to do with being “devoted” one specific person. Spirituality has to do with how you treat everyone.

Seeing anyone as superior or inferior is about as far from being spiritual as you can get.

Yes there has been abundant comment here to define spiritual. No such thing. Why should I accept the concept. Spirituality. Sonia yes kindness and respect for our wold and all its inhabitants is not limited to so called spiritual people, and indeed it is often very absent in self claimed spiritual people.
The world is a far brighter and more beautiful place with out this thing.

@ deep deep south

If you tell and convince people that a yellow metal is precious, so much so, that people are willing to kill and be killed for it, naturally, if there is meme going around that it can be found somewhere., naturally some people will go after it.

Without mystics, having inner experiences, the inner gold, nobody who know of it and nobody would bother to find it.

Only some are treasure hunters, gold diggers etc

The rest are either not interested or try to profit from it by selling stuff needed for, the digging etc, offer services in terms of catering etc ... whole villages were so created.

In the same way the inner gold digging is surrounded by wagon lifters that are not interested but in making a profit from the whole affaire. Have a look at the organisation of the so called world religions.

Humans do handle all things the same way, no matter what.

Is there outer gold, yes of course there is, natural and also cultural gold and so there is also spiritual, inner gold .... the question is why do you want to go after it!

Is a cup of coffee not enough?

Hi Deep Deep South... you've generated a whole raft of comments, hitting lots of raw nerves in what is a very raw & clearly imperfect world at present. Sadly, what is apparent here is the disappointment, agony, futility even, of decades spent in service to RSSB by many it seems given this worldly 'context' of late...of that, all I would say is, it is what it is, for what ever purpose.
All I would add, very briefly, is that it is possibly still worth your time going back to the original texts, search them out prior to latter day edits &/or simply RSSB publications, for there may be much to be revealed in Surat Shabd Yoga (the inner / not outer practice) which transcends this worldly, imperfect non-sense. God Bless, UK

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