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October 24, 2020

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@ Somehow Hagen misses the point of his own example, saying, bizarrely, "Simply put,
@ conception, as useful as it might be, is no substitute for perception."

I think it depends on what "perception " really means. A
mystic perception plumbs the essence of what's seen
instead of only what's apprehended by the senses and
then filtered mentally. The latter skims superficially, looks
for a pattern, then pigeonholes it. By gum, it's bloody well
corralled the beast before our eyes and can speak about
its taxonomy.

That's useful and necessary of course. But it may be wrong
because what we're seeing may be obscured, incomplete,
or distorted by own mind. It may be completely illusory too.

A character in our dream says "I see a monster. Run!". "Yeah",
another dreamer says, "I see it too. Let's get outta here!" You
look, see the damn thing as well, and join in the sprint. Maybe,
you have a lingering doubt about it's reality. You perceived
something was amiss but dammit the danger looked "real"
and other "real people with 20/20 vision" saw it too.

On waking, you realize the reality was illusory and so were the
other dreamers. You had reached the right conclusion and run.
But some part of you had really perceived the illusion. You just
weren't quite ready to accept the truth instead of your lying
eyes.

"Absolutely false. Hagen needs to do more reading in modern neuroscience. A lot of progress is being made in correlating brain activity with consciousness. For example, it is now possible to predict quite accurately whether a patient is in a vegetative state from that activity."

The research is beautifully contradictory, and not well replicated, which simply means the truth is yet to be fully revealed.

Heightened cognitive functioning, such as mental problem solving and creative thinking, is actually correlated directly with reduced brain activity, while sensory awareness is correlated directly with level of brain activity. Go figure.

Which of these two represents "consciousness"? Or is that a little more complex than we imagined?

it is evident that without the brain there is no mental content, but can the brain create content,...that is the question.

Without the hardware of the computer one can not run a program, but can the hardware create a program.

Without a car there is no destination to be reached, no route to be driven, but can thge car make for a destination and a route.

It is about ... content.

You have certain feelings for what is yours, your wife, children pets etc. These feelings do need a brain but can activating certain brain circuits re-create the feelings you have for your partner?

As far as I understand Hagen says that that link is not established.

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