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August 28, 2020

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Malvinder’s timing is so coincidental it creeps me out. This keeps happening.

Well, Malvinder knows zero, zilch, nada about due diligence. Like I said, the FDA had a picture of Malvinder hanging on the wall in their war room with devil horns drawn on it. And that is saying A LOT because that’s not the sort of thing government investigators and attorneys normally do. He made their lives hell for 8 years. They only took the picture down after the DOJ told them they had to. That war room was filled with stacks and stacks of binders proving his complete lack of due diligence.

I find it impossible to believe anything he says.

Sonia, the first story says that Malvinder has bank statements that back him up. And what he is alleging fits with previous reporting in the Indian financial press. So I think it is entirely possible that Malvinder is speaking the truth. After all, Gurinder Singh doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation in that regard when it comes to this financial scandal.

If a person carries a weapon, for whatever reason, sooner or later he will use it or be forced to used it.

If one accepts money, as a gift, inheritance or whatever, one enters the financial playground.

Some countries do play nicer financial games then others.

Among the nations where the game are played more or less dirty, India stands out.

The only way to keep clean hands in an country with financially corrupt games, is not to accept money.

Not accepting money is not always an option. Sometimes and in some places under some circumstances one HAS to accept the money and one is forced to enter the playground.

If a person In India inherits an pharmaceutical Industries he is really in big problems. To run it and to get rid of it in such a system without making dirty hands will be impossible even for godmen.

Brian let me tell you something about the Indian media. There is a scandalous case going on as we speak about possible murder and the Indian press upon the request of the accused in the case has looked for “friendly media” which is print or post a story according to the narrative they want.
Lesson don’t believe the Indian press wait for proof they can be PAID to post anything. Wonder why all these articles you posted are from business today 🤔
And all articles incriminating GSD are from the same writers (Thakar, dubey).
Like Sonia I don’t believe Malvinder at all he is capable of anything.

Friendlymedia?, I'm not impressed with your sort of "fake news" argument. I've read lots of stories in the Indian financial press about the Singh Brothers/Dhillon family scandal. I've been interviewed by several journalists who were working on this story.

I've been impressed with the professionalism and accuracy of what's been reported. The RSSB guru is who has been stonewalling the media, and also investigators, from what I can tell. Since Gurinder Singh Dhillon claims to be innocent, one would think he'd be eager to answer questions and get everything out in the open. That he hasn't done this indicates that he has something to hide.

By the way, all of the stories I've posted aren't from Business Today. One I posted today is from the Economic Times. Bloomberg has been doing good reporting on this also. There are plenty of factual pointers at the Dhillon family involvement in this financial mess.

What Malvinder claims isn't much of an extension to what we already know. When at Fortis, loans were siphoned to the shell companies without any due diligence, signed by Shivinder. That was the conclusion of multiple audits by different agencies including the Indian government.

Shivinder took control of those shell companies.

That's a matter of public record.

Gurinder's wife was also listed as a principle on many of the shell companies. And some were being run by high ranking Dera Satsangis.

The Shell companies funneled money directly into Gurinder's bank accounts.

Gurinder himself gave proof of these monies being deposited temporarily into his accounts, under the demand of the Indian court, but claimed he knew nothing about it.

Now Malvinder is supplying more evidence of the transfer of funds into Gurinder's accounts by Shivinder. And he is further countering Gurinder's claim that this funneled money was used to pay Malvinder.

But Gurinder's acknowledgement is evidence of his awareness of these illegal finds in his accounts. Gurinder says he doesn't owe shying to Malvinder. Because he already paid him with the stolen funds??

These are established facts from multiple sources. And Gurinder's claim, while meeting the condition of acknowledging he was aware, eliminates any excuse he might have made that he didn't know what was happening. He fully acknowledges he knew. But he claims he used the stolen funds to pay Malvinder back. So now Gurinder doesn't owe Malvinder.

Using stolen funds, loans gained illegally, to pay off your debts isn't actually paying your debts. It's money laundering. But I guess different countries have different standards of morality. If you can get away with it, it's not wrong, but that standard. Gurinder had indicted himself by trying to excuse his use of those stolen monies.

"When crime succeeds it is called virtue"
Seneca

We don't know who was the mastermind. But money was stolen and laundered. And at the center was Gurinder's Bank accounts, used to launder hundreds of millions of dollars worth of money over multiple years.

Any denial of these facts is a denial of truth.

Normally, the public would form an opinion about these dealings, about who is to blame and who is innocent.

All we know is that these people were all involved and with their consent. No one was forced to do anything, from the evidence we have so far. Gurinder used the money to pay bills.

Sonia, the first story says that Malvinder has bank statements that back him up. And what he is alleging fits with previous reporting in the Indian financial press. So I think it is entirely possible that Malvinder is speaking the truth. After all, Gurinder Singh doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation in that regard when it comes to this financial scandal.

Posted by: Brian Hines | August 28, 2020 at 03:06 PM

Brian,

I understand your logic but have you read Bottle of Lies or looked up any of the FDA or DOJ reports online. Actually they don’t give access to most of the records that investigators can access to regular citizens but there are a few available to the public. I have no idea at this point what role GSD played. But if you asked any of the investigators they would tell you it wouldn’t be out of character at all for Malvinder to make those deposits and to have the trail of money flow in a way that it potentially hurt Shivinder or the Dhillons. Malvinder has a record of blackmailing and threatening to kill people. His employees were terrified of him. The US agencies supported, protected and tried to keep his whistleblowers anonymous because they knew that Malvinder could and would likely harm or kill them and their families.

Malvinder’s ability to convolute, twist and deceive goes way beyond what most criminal investigators see in the typical pathological liar. Grant it, Ranbaxy had been run in this manner by his father as well. Maybe not as extreme as Malvinder but they were never above falsifying and faking drug trials and testing. They didn’t care if their drugs killed a bunch of “blacks in Africa”. They admitted to that. They were racist.

At this point, I’m starting to think Shivinder moved to the Dera just to get the hell away from his brother. Everyone was afraid of him and unfortunately there wasn’t anything Malvinder wouldn’t do in order to get what he wanted.

On top of that, I’m furious and horrified at his lack of concern over the destructive and potentially life threatening effects his tainted drugs had upon people. And he was completely aware of everything but didn’t care. I can’t even begin to summarize it. Investigative journalists, criminal prosecutors, federal agencies and corporate spies spent years peeling back layer upon layer of fraud, deception and criminal activity that he oversaw.

I don’t know what GSD did. I don’t know why his wife was made director of those companies or what role his sons played. But I do know that if you asked any of the investigators on just the Ranbaxy case alone if Malvinder would potentially frame the guru and his family for some sick and twisted irrational purpose, they would say it’s entirely possible.

Malvinder’s handling of money and standard business practices was the equivalent of a software engineer building a program using lots of spaghetti code, malware and full of viruses.

There is no way GSD could openly defend his innocence (if he is in fact innocent) given the complexity of the cases and the ongoing investigations. Every lawyer would advise him not to say anything solely on the basis that the investigation is ongoing. I’m not even sure it would be truly ethical for GSD to comment on the case at this point. Even if he tried to explain himself to the Sangat or the press he’d have to write an entire book and that would only be an overview of the situation.

I’m trying to be completely objective based on what I’ve learned. I don’t have proof that GSD is innocent but there is proof that Malvinder is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors. Above that, his character has proven him to be completely untrustworthy.

The FDA wanted to slap him with a 3 billion dollar fine and throw him in prison. But Malvinder’s ability to navigate all the loopholes in the legal system, bribe and threaten people didn’t allow them to.

I wouldn’t slam your average criminal like this but Malvinder is no average criminal.

Time will tell who’s responsible for what. Unfortunately the wheels of justice turn slow.

Whistleblowers can do a lot of good and are often critical in helping to stop corruption. Thakkar was very helpful in the Ranbaxy case. But it’s important for whistleblowers to make sure they’re doing what they’re doing with truly pure motives.

Ironically, you can thank people like Snowden for Trump being president. I seriously question Snowden’s motivations. He ended up doing more damage than good to the safety of US Citizens.

Every company I’ve worked for over the past 12 years has been a contractor with different government agencies. We worked with DHS, DOJ, FBI, NSA, ATF, DEA and others I’m not going to name. I know there is corruption in every organization but one has to be very careful with regards to what’s in the best interest of citizens. Not all whistleblowers are the saints they’re portrayed to be in the media. Thakkar did well on Ranbaxy. Hopefully he will continue to work for truth and not get tied up in the ego driven trap that many whistleblowers get sucked into.

If the Dhillons are guilty then the truth should come out. If they’re not guilty then that should be made clear as well.

I don’t have that information. Right now, I’m open to the possibility that they might be innocent and caught in Malvinder’s twisted web.

Truth is like a maze. When you hit a dead end you have to turn around and go another way until you find the open door. You can’t just stubbornly try to plow through a wall because you were convinced that was the right way. The end of the maze is the open door and that’s where the truth is.

We’ll just have to wait and see where the open door leads.

Its a family business i tell ya! I mean ofcourse, if i took my time off from sachkand and came down to earth, i'd also want my family members in top managerial positions.

@Spence

“Gurinder himself gave proof of these monies being deposited temporarily into his accounts, under the demand of the Indian court, but claimed he knew nothing about it.”

He claimed he knew nothing about it. That’s a possibility.

Have you ever considered that Malvinder is the one who wanted to be the next guru and he was jealous of Shivinder having a closer relationship with the guru?

Were these corporate accounts with Gurinder as the primary signature or were these personal checking accounts of the guru? There’s a difference in the way things are handled. Especially in India...

Where I lived there was a restaurant with a lounge were well to do ladies would have their tea and meet friends...long, long ago.

Every waiter, professionals that are replaced by `plate carriers` these days had a fixed number of tables. The ladies all had their favoured waiter as they were also entertainers.
Waiters in those days were no saints and would steal from all and everybody, the owner, the guests and even their colleagues.

One day one of the waiters was caught red handed [if that is the right expression] by the owner himself.

Angred he was so that all and everybody could hear it... not because he was caught stealing but because he "had him self cought doing it" ... You idiot, why do you steal under my own eyes?! Do you think I don't know what you waiters are always doing when you get the chance??!! No O have to fire you ... you are one of my best waiters.He knew that a lot of his clientele would not longer visit his lounge when that waiter was no longer around.

The story of Ranbaxy is the same as the waiter.

One cannot accumulated enormous amounts of wealth without making ones hands dirty in one way or another, either by tampering with the products that are sold, having people working under miserable conditions for illegal wages, not paying taxes etc etc etc.
That happens all over the world.
In some countries they are better in covering up what they are doing and in others it is part of their culture to be corrupt at every step of corporate activity

The bottle of lies speaks of what is going on in the Pharma industry as a whole!!

Why Ranbaxy was targetted and not another of those industries nobody knows.

An now, now they have to be "fired" like the waiter in the story and found guilty and in the same tome they nothing changes and the rest goes on doing their corrupted business in a corrupted way.

If these were corporate accounts where he was the account owner we’re talking about a whole different kind of situation. There would have been multiple signatories on the account having authority to deposit and transfer funds.

Malvinder should count himself really lucky—GSD won’t rip him to shreds like anyone else would because he’s Malvinder’s Master. If anything Gurinder has already forgiven him.

Hi Sonia

Malvinder's private emails to Gurinder reflect that he was following orders. Gurinder has not disputed those emails.

And testimony by both brothers and others in multiple interviews indicates Gurinder asked the brothers to work under Sunil Godwani's direction. Sunhil was in charge of Dera finances for decades and reported directly to Gurinder.

The user of Gurinder's Bank accounts was through Shivinder, whose name was on the loans, and who was the promoter of the shell companies, along with Gurinder's wife.

You've done a nice job sharing the information that indicts Malvinder's character.

There may be other information to explain Shivinder's actions, and the complicity and cooperation over several years by Baba Ji, his wife, and several principles at the Dera, including Sunil.

One thing is clear. These are all adults connected to this crime materially, legally, and consenually.

We can't say with solid proof who gave the orders. But the bank documents, loan documents, audits and investigations by the Indian government, and independent auditors, have cleared up a lot of the story.

Malvinder was the chief at Fortis. Shivinder moved the money through his shell companies and other high ranking Dera Satsangis into Gurinder's accounts. Possibly at the direction of Sunhil, at least according to both Malvinder and Shivinder, and anonymous witnesses at the Dera.

Gurinder used at least some of the money to pay debts. Some of that may be connected to real estate investment losses. We don't know where all of it went.

No one is innocent in the sense of unknowing the part they were playing. Not Malvinder, not Shivinder, not Sunny, nor Gurinder or his wife. There is already anonymous testimony that the shell company managers were given bonuses to comply, according to the investigation by the police.

One of the things politicians do is blame one person to deflect attention on another who may be guilty as well.

We can't say. It is possible that the frightening immortality, racism and brutality you describe is a reflection of that entire families' culture.


One more thing, Sonia
What you have discovered about Malvinder was known by Gurinder all along. Even in the day Gurinder signed his bank accounts over to Shivinder, and helped both assume leadership of Fortis, he knew all about Malvinder.

Maybe that was part of plan.

It is indeed a family business.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/business-news/the-billionaires-and-the-guru-how-a-family-burned-through-2-billion/story-wZO2DQt89gtqwNGt0098mK.html

There are no villains in my story.
Well, there is one.
The only villain is ignorance.
And ignorance doesn’t know it’s ignorant.
It thinks it knows (because it’s ignorant) .
And we all suffer that disease in some form and to some degree.

But there is also a hero in my story: understanding.
He’s a ninja, striking unexpectedly, causing so much pain and destruction.
Can strike anyone at any time.

People call him the villain. They live in fortresses to keep him out. They build weapons against him. They tell stories to each other about him. Terrible stories.

But he’s a ninja. He finds a way in. No escape. The Further we run, the longer the walk home. But he will find us anywhere. He won’t stop. Until we choose to listen.
And even then, though he may let us live, there is always some price.
A finger, an arm, always a part of us must die.

Sometimes he goes by the name of Brian

Hi Sonia
Here Gurinder admits his agreement to and knowledge of the use his accounts temporarily for the funds but explains that a private verbal agreement releases him of all liabilities.

Keep in mind, he knows all about Malvinder and Shivinder.

"He has claimed that in view of the “complete trust” and “close family relationship” between the families, they did not record any agreement and the arrangement was based “purely on mutual oral understanding and agreement”."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/pharmaceuticals/radha-soami-chief-admits-to-financial-dealings-with-singh-brothers/amp_articleshow/72058229.cms

Gurinder explains that when he agreed to have the money moved by Movinder and Shivinder into his accounts, Gurinder further stipulated as part of the agreement that he, Gurinder, would not be held accountable.

Is that the complete family trust he refers to in his justification to the court why there is no recorded agreement?

Just stop here, on this point for a moment.

Think about this for a moment.

It's clear that the dhillan the villain has used stolen funds to try and pay off the dept owed to Mulvinder. The money trail leads directly to dhillan accounts, which GSD does not deny. You cannot not hide this fact, even though GSD did lie on multiple occasions to the sangat about this. As it stands the wrong person is in jail - it should be GSD, the master mind, and shivinder. Shivinder wanted to be the new guru of beas, RSSB , as he wanted a taste of being a Godman on earth. Greedy dhillan agreed at a contract price for this job, given that he was getting wary of the negative press he and his family were getting. As the fall guy from all this fraud was mulvinder, it is totally understandable why mulvinder had to be tough as he was cornered by the plan these two snakes were making and that he was being stitched up. And, by the way, the horned guy on the wall in the room, shows who they all really worship, the devil himself. Finally, If dhillan was so innocent in all this, why doesnt he prove it in court? Karma will get u GSD , you cant hide anymore

All I'm going to say is I now have proof that things are not AT ALL what they seem. I've been blaming the wrong person for years now.

@ Gurinder explains that when he agreed to have the money moved by
@ Movinder and Shivinder into his accounts, Gurinder further stipulated as
@ part of the agreement that he, Gurinder, would not be held accountable.
@ Is that the complete family trust he refers to in his justification to the court
@ why there is no recorded agreement?

Hey, most family agreements have their genesis in trust.
Generally they memorialize fine print either in writing but
some even do it old-school with a quick verbal stipulation.
The latter is still prevalent in some cultures. Shocking, isn't
it?

Even trusted family members are know to misstep at times.
Didn't Gurinder send a letter to Malva re: family agreement
when things begin io implode? I seem to recall some words
about "settling accounts". What is the intrepid sleuth to read
into that? Curious minds want to know.

P.S I reject any charge of being a cult zombie lurching to
protect an evil manipulator-in-chief. Who knows what evil
lurks in the heart of man as "The Shadow" says.

Hi Sonia
Please share your evidence.

Hi Dungeness
You did a nice job explaining that private family agreements are not unusual, in response to my comments.

From the article cited above

"He has claimed that in view of the “complete trust” and “close family relationship” between the families, they did not record any agreement and the arrangement was based “purely on mutual oral understanding and agreement”."

From
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/pharmaceuticals/radha-soami-chief-admits-to-financial-dealings-with-singh-brothers/amp_articleshow/72058229.cms

It is in this same article that Gurinder explains that when he agreed to have the money moved by Movinder and Shivinder into his accounts, Gurinder further stipulated as part of the agreement that he, Gurinder, would not be held accountable.for whatever might happen.

My comment was not to question that they had a private agreement around the movement of hundreds of millions of dollars in illegal loans using other people's money. Which by the way really stretches the ethics on that front.

It was the statement that the complete family trust he refers to was the basis for not recording anything, but the actual agreement was that Gurinder didn't trust Malvinder for shit, knew this was risky, fishy, not trust worthy at all and made sure to disclaim any responsibility for what might happen.

To which I repeat..

Just stop here, on this point for a moment.

Think about this for a moment.

Let me rephrase "We didn't need a written record because we're family and have complete trust in each other. . But I really don't trust that snake Malvinder so I'm not taking the fall if this thing goes to shit. Of course if this works I'm all in!"

What raises the single eyebrow in the above is that Gurinder thinks that this was all perfectly fine, and above board. And therefore he should be off the hook because he says so.

He says he told Malvinder and Shivinder he wasn't taking any responsibly for this... In private, not recorded anywhere.... And his word on that should be enough for any court in the world, right?

Maybe GSD has found a new home in UK. He is a covid refugee there now. Won't have to go back unless UK extradites him for perjury. Probably not. Perjury hardly matters, as in ...
"I do NOT owe money to that MAN, Malvinder Singh!!!!!"
You know what I mean?

"I find it impossible to believe anything he says."

I find it impossible to believe in that hilarious and imaginary schizoid description of the FDA having pictures of Malvinder with devil horns hanging in their "war room."

"They only took the picture down after the DOJ told them they had to."

Yeah, that's really how it works. Mmm hmm.

So it's ok for GSD, the self proclaimed god incarnate on earth, to get away with fraud and if we mear mortals did the same we would be locked up, and what's more judged by the rssb gods to be sinners. Double standards and hypocrites. Gurinder went from being a hotel manager to a billionaire baba, what a promotion. And ofcourse he didn't know that he had accidentally given his account number for billions of dollars. Why else is he riding around in private jets. Total hypocrite and he deserves everything he gets.

Truth warrior ... apart from what happens and what is the truth about it ... why does it upset you so much?

The reaction to what he does are all yours ... they are your freedom, your right ...and YOUR CHOICE.

Or is it that he has power over your feelings??

@ Let me rephrase "We didn't need a written record because we're family
@ and have complete trust in each other. . But I really don't trust that snake
@ Malvinder so I'm not taking the fall if this thing goes to shit. Of course if this
@ works I'm all in!"

Yet, GSD's "Family Settlement" letter of May 27 2018 to Malv
and Shiv does cite a document "to be signed".

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=malvinder+letter+from+Gurinder&t=hk&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fhinessight.blogs.com%2F.a%2F6a00d83451c0aa69e20240a49129c0200d-600wi

If it's just a "Let me off the hook" letter, why does GSD first note
the liabilities are not being "taken care of" and then end with
"the amicable way forward is to reverse all the decisions and
revert all the properties back to us with a list of all the liabilities
and we can work to settle accounts."

How can this be unpacked in a way which suggests GSD wasn't
trying to defray legitimate debts the family owed?

GSD: "I'm baaaaack"
A aR: Indeed.
Brief period of legal immunity while in UK is over.
Now that full legal jurisdiction is back in force, let us watch and see the high drama about to unfold, with free global viewing.
GSD ... I AM greatest of all time Dollywood superActor, in this India's now running People's Court series,
Malvinder Singh vs GSD.
Whom do you believe?
Who is guilty?
Who is not?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/pharmaceuticals/radha-soami-chief-admits-to-financial-dealings-with-singh-brothers/amp_articleshow/72058229.cms

What GSD described in the article was an attempt to bolster the stock price of REL by passing old money through Dhillon family hands to make it look like new money--fresh capital! (but it wasn't). Rs 219 crore x 2 = Rs 538 crore = approximately $70 million. If the rights issue failed, it would look really bad. A deception might be worth it, because fulfilling the rights issue spectacularly by such high profile insiders could restore market confidence in REL. That was the benefit to Malvinder and Shivinder that Gurinder spoke of. A good reason not to write anything down was that SEBI wouldn't like it.

What happened? REL fell anyway! This was not the work of master criminals but of incompetents desperate not to keep hemorrhaging cash. They got in over their heads playing tycoon, from Malvinder to Shivinder to Godhwani to Gurinder. Long story short, they were bad at business. Plenty of blame to go around.

Sorry, math errors. 219 x 2 = 438. Rs 438 crore = approximately $60 million. Big money all the same.

Oh, and that was at today's exchange rate. In 2010 the rupee was worth about 50% more, so we're talking something like $90 million. Please correct me, if I'm wrong.

@ Anami

As far as I understand they inherited a business imperium via the father from the grandfather.
They are not the inventors of the Indian financial world and its flaws.

Those who handle tar, sooner or later get stained.

It was their fate that they had to deal with that inheritance. Like it was their fate that they had an uncle to advise them that also was head of an religious multinational.

The question arises if any of us could have done better ..... once his uncle wrote me ..... and then you are jostled into a situation that you cannot but act in a given way.

In the end the Indian society by means of their institutions will find an solution ... there are more parties involved than the media speaks of.

um,

No argument there. Years ago I thought I could make money day trading but only lost and lost.

Would somebody here please just read the book. It only takes 15-20 hours (depending on how fast you read).

Until then...

Keep in mind when it comes to day to day business. India is another planet in another galaxy... in another universe if that were possible.

@Spence
Unfortunately I’m not at liberty to share. So, not much help to anyone else right now.

Um
@Truth warrior ... apart from what happens and what is the truth about it ... why does it upset you so much?

@The reaction to what he does are all yours ... they are your freedom, your right ...and YOUR CHOICE.

@Or is it that he has power over your feelings??

Many watched Hitler kill millions of Jews, and did nothing. Um if you had an ounce of caring and compassion for humanity, we would expose these fraudsters for who they really are. Nothing but liers and leeches, hiding behind public figures. They are worse than murderers and fooled man kind for eons. It is about time we stood up against these jokers, and demanded our freedom. All of the rssb agents that troll this sight, of which you are one Um, think they are doing the highest seva for GSD in return for a seat in heaven do not know that they are being fooled by the puppet master. Little do you know that they are like Hitler's henchmen sending the Jews into the gas chamber. Open your eyes to what is really happening in front of your very eyes.

Um
@Truth warrior ... apart from what happens and what is the truth about it ... why does it upset you so much?

@The reaction to what he does are all yours ... they are your freedom, your right ...and YOUR CHOICE.

@Or is it that he has power over your feelings??

Many watched Hitler kill millions of Jews, and did nothing. Um if you had an ounce of caring and compassion for humanity, we would expose these fraudsters for who they really are. Nothing but liers and leeches, hiding behind public figures. They are worse than murderers and fooled man kind for eons. It is about time we stood up against these jokers, and demanded our freedom. All of the rssb agents that troll this sight, of which you are one Um, think they are doing the highest seva for GSD in return for a seat in heaven do not know that they are being fooled by the puppet master. Little do you know that they are like Hitler's henchmen sending the Jews into the gas chamber. Open your eyes to what is really happening in front of your very eyes.

Sonia what do you mean blaming the wrong person? Please clarify

@ Truth warrior

You repeated whatever you have to say about GSD and RSSB and went a step further by comparing him with Hitler, but that is no answer to my question.

I just want to understand why you are so upset ... are you atheist, orthodox Christian, devil worshipper, testimony of Jehovah or else or ... just trying to upset people???

And .... you have never found a word of defence from me on this site on any teaching or teacher
NEVER!!
I just want to understand why the different people are of a given opinion; I want to understand them ... why they are pro or contra.

So I am still curious about your motivation

@ Truth Warrior

The way you write makes me think of the negative emotions that are expressed by Fred Phelps and his devotees, some atheists, European anarchists, frustrated sceptics and these days the political conspiracy thinkers ... just to give some examples.

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"If it's just a "Let me off the hook" letter, why does GSD first note
the liabilities are not being "taken care of" and then end with
"the amicable way forward is to reverse all the decisions and
revert all the properties back to us with a list of all the liabilities
and we can work to settle accounts."

Yes, this letter actually states that Gurinder is willing to shoulder the whole thing. But it requires Malvinder to return the properties he no longer owns, has leveraged. But he may have done that at Suni or Gurinder's prompting. Would you trust Malvinder to handle your investments? If Gurinder is guilty of anything it is complicity with Malvinder, famously known for the fine drugs his family produced.

This was the whole issue, I believe. Malvinder may have stolen money, with Shivinder 's help, to cover the real estate investment losses they all shared. Gurinder likes real estate. . So Gurinder's letter would not actually be sincere. Malvinder can't sign the obligations over to Gurinder. And Gurinder isn't actually going to take responsibility for the debts. As we have seen. Why record that in a letter when everything else is not? And now Malvinder is in jail and Gurindar isn't. So it's all worked out fine, right?

Sonia what do you mean blaming the wrong person? Please clarify

Posted by: Confused desi | August 31, 2020 at 02:39 PM

Well, you’ll be even more confused at my explanation.

The only reason I included that part in my statement is because all of this is connected somehow.

Had my million dollar question answered and turns out I’ve been blaming GSD for something that wasn’t his fault. Add to that, I now understand why he couldn’t explain it to me when I asked.

It’s nice to finally be able to make sense of something after 16 years.

I’m sure that answer didn’t help much. Sorry if you’re more confused now. I spent years trying to figure it out...

It’s interesting how the answer I always wanted, I couldn’t have possibly understood until now.

@ Little do you know that they are like Hitler's henchmen sending the Jews
@ into the gas chamber.

Do have any idea of what offensive vitriol that is? This is
criminal fraud not genocide.

By the way, one of the hallmarks of those stood by in Nazi
Germany was a willingness to ignore judicial rights. People
would disappear. No trial. No jury.

GSD and family have not been charged nor convicted of
criminality. Yet you have opted to be that jury for them and
scream charges of fraud in almost daily blog rants. I shutter
to think of the verdicts and punishment you'd decree for the
target of your hateful attacks.

It's eerily similar to what was happening in Nazi Germany.

The whistleblower at Ranbaxy made 48 million or so for his vigilante role. But then he went on to become a full-time whistle blower just looking for trouble. And his wife left him because it became such an obsession. Oh, but it was an arranged marriage so maybe he didn’t care.

@ I believe. Malvinder may have stolen money, with Shivinder 's help, to
@ cover the real estate investment losses they all shared. Gurinder likes
@ real estate. So Gurinder's letter would not actually be sincere.

So Gurinder masterminded the lion's share of the fraud due to a fatal
weakness for real estate. Or maybe just his intemperate greed. Ah, but
then he had the foresight to cannily sent a letter to pose as an angelic
Baba trying to do the right thing, to "settle accounts"

I suppose his evil attorney mighta been the villain whispering in the
emperor's ear. In their spare time they musta hatched the death
threats to Malva for good measure. But you know how slippery the
path to damnation is. One thing led to another and, to tie up the
loose ends, they had to ice the weak link for the sake of the family.
Shabnam had to go.

Gurinder sobbed when the attorney told him. But, the attorney held
him in his arms and told him he needed to be strong for everybody.
He reminded him that this was the life they had chosen. And, anyway,
it was never personal, just business. "Just be one with the Darkness
and sleep well. There's Satsang tomorrow", he consoled.

I'm being excessively flip for a laugh but, in reality, a factual basis
for a damning portrait of GSD may emerge yet. I think the
prevalent one on CofC is still riddled with supposition and hidden
agenda though. With all the bad optics that are emerging in the
media, I agree the lack of transparency is troubling whether it's
on an attorney's advice or not.

It's also a reminder though to shy away from facile, superficial
judgments on what's seen outside and look deeper inside.

@dungeness

I always thought the lack of transparency was troubling until I read Thakkar’s account. Assuming this current situation is as complex as the Ranbaxy horror show, I understand why the current drama has been more opaque.

Honestly, where would you even begin in explaining your innocence??? (That sentence should have been in all caps but I didn’t want to seem obnoxious).

The sheer magnitude of twisted, convoluted, complex transactions (a.k.a. just doin’ business the Ranbaxy way) makes it impossible for anyone involved to summarize for the public why they’re innocent other than to simply claim “I’m not guilty”. The rest will have to play itself out.

It kind of reminds me of how I’m always having to explain to my parents why my husband and I have to pay a lot of extra expenses for my in-laws in South Africa. Most of the extra expenses we have to cover for them are due to the unimaginable corrupt country they live. It’s so corrupt it’s surreal. It doesn’t even sound believable to my parents. Everything from having to pay to get the mail that was sent to you. You either pay a bribe to the idiot working behind the counter at the post office to hand over YOUR mail, beat them up or come back when someone else is working the counter and hope they won’t charge you as much. And you just hope a bunch of postal workers don’t dump the mail or burn it because they’re on strike for higher wages. That’s just one teeny tiny example of a day in the life of a South African. To get anything done from the biggest to the smallest thing you’d have to pay someone a “fee” (a bribe).

South Africa today is as corrupt as India if not a little more and it’s also more primitive so while we’re sometimes laughing at the absurdity of it, my family this side doesn’t find it funny at all because they don’t find it believable.

One weekend I got really sick and had to go to the emergency room in Johannesburg. When I got there I filled out my paperwork and went to pay the amount to see the doctor. My brother-in-law thought they were asking for too much money so he told me not to pay in cash. Then he spoke with them for a while and the price came down and I paid with my credit card. Then he explained to me that it’s common practice to charge more for a customer paying cash when the supervisors aren’t around, especially on the weekends. The employees pocket the money. Common occurrence in every profession in that country.

But if he hadn’t been with me I wouldn’t have known any better and I would have paid what they asked. But many South Africans get worn down by the system especially when it comes to getting what they need like police protection, utilities turned on, a drivers license, a business license, protection for your car so that it doesn’t get stolen while you’re in the mall shopping. In America we’d call management or police and they would take care of the matter. In South Africa that’s not even an option. So your existence becomes dependent upon you playing the game. After a while it seems normal. This is a far cry from what happened with the Singh’s but when there is no law and order, thugs take over and the only way anything gets done is by working with two sets of rules. India’s corrupt system is exactly why they have so many situations like Ranbaxy. And there are so many situations like that. On the one hand India’s politicians say they want to crack down on crime while they are willingly taking bribes with the other hand.

An extreme example is when my husband was growing up in SA he said if an African broke into your home and you had to shoot him to stop him and he ended up dying, you’d turn him over shoot him in the back of the head so that the police would automatically write it down as self defense.

Do any of us live in a country where life is so cheap? I’m just saying we’re really naive in America and Western countries to think everything is going to be handled “the right way”. We’re blessed that our law enforcement is no where near as corrupt. Sure, we have corruption but nothing like that. Ultimately the police and government are to blame for widespread systemic corruption. It will continue (as with ALL generic drug companies in India) until the government does something about it.

Many watched Hitler kill millions of Jews, and did nothing. Um if you had an ounce of caring and compassion for humanity, we would expose these fraudsters for who they really are. Nothing but liers and leeches, hiding behind public figures. They are worse than murderers and fooled man kind for eons. It is about time we stood up against these jokers, and demanded our freedom. All of the rssb agents that troll this sight, of which you are one Um, think they are doing the highest seva for GSD in return for a seat in heaven do not know that they are being fooled by the puppet master. Little do you know that they are like Hitler's henchmen sending the Jews into the gas chamber. Open your eyes to what is really happening in front of your very eyes.

Posted by: Truth warrior | August 31, 2020 at 02:32 PM

@Truth warrior

The hardest lesson I’ve had to learn:

“Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.”
—Confucius

Sorry but that comparison you gave is way off base. No comparison whatsoever. If you go around repeating that (especially in India) people are going to think you’re insane.

I probably shouldn’t have said what I said about Malvinder because their situation is not for me to issue proclamations about. It just gave me a really bad feeling. There’s a difference between discrimination and judgement. I should remember to stop at discrimination since I don’t need anymore negative karma. It’s just that we all have our “stuff”. I believe past lives are a real thing. You are temporarily bound to anyone you feel passionately about whether it’s good or bad. Until you let go of your anger they will control you, not the other way around. We always fear the things we hate.

*karma is just one of those catch all words—it captures a lot of different concepts.

~Sonia

@ Sonia
>> .....at all because they don’t find it believable.<<

Well let them choose an representative. Buy a ticket to RSA and find out for themselves. After report and finding, you were right, let them all solely promise never again to raise the subject.

Something like that is what my mother did with her family in law. ... hahahaha .... she was a brave lady.

@ Somia

>>India’s corrupt system is exactly why they have so many situations like Ranbaxy. And there are so many situations like that. On the one hand India’s politicians say they want to crack down on crime while they are willingly taking bribes with the other hand. <<

And for that very reason, to look upon the participants in this drama, appart from the history of Ranbaxy and how the company ended up in their hands, the economic games that are played in India and etc one wonders if anybody else could have done otherwise.

How can anybody keep clean hands in such an corrupt circumstance??

The question is also why the American FDA choose to control that industry after it was sold to Japan for what was found there can be found in many other industries.

Not that i need to know the answer, the whole affair has no meaning to me.

@ The sheer magnitude of twisted, convoluted, complex transactions
@(a.k.a. just doin’ business the Ranbaxy way) makes it impossible for anyone
@ involved to summarize for the public why they’re innocent other than to
@ simply claim “I’m not guilty”. The rest will have to play itself out.

Wow, Sonia. That's eye-opening. It's a precious reminder of
our great good fortune to not be living in dystopian countries.

Sonia who answered your million dollar question? What’s wasn’t his fault?

Dungeness, ....
If you think it is only there and not here, you believe that there live other human beings then here.

It does happen here also but here they are better in making it seen as decent.

When I grew up, I could get an slap from every adult if I misbehaved in their eyes. Complaining at home would be asking for the next slap. In those day people knew the difference between slapping a child and maltreatment, punishable by law. Today people are no longer willing or able to see the difference, so it was banned and no adult can slap a child, risking to end up in jail for maltreatment.

Why this example?

Well the behaviour of children has not changed nor the need to correct them when needed.
That need still there and the old means no longer allowed people have turned to other ... un physical forms, emotional an intellectual means. Yes these means don't make an impression on the body but on the mind of children. A talk with psychologists will reveal that the eventual damage can be more sever and long lasting.

Read the different language that is used for the damage that is done by the different parties fighting in the middle east. Those that are presented to the media as "civilised" in fact do kill more and the effects are more long lasting than those labeled as terrorists.

We complain about the miserable conditions under which asian people have to earn their money but have a look were you live ..... not to forget the profit we all make from that labour in asia in the form of cheap things we need for living.

So inorder to become rich here, you have to make yourself guilty of the same things as in Asia.

@ In those day people knew the difference between slapping a child and
@ maltreatment, punishable by law. Today people are no longer willing or able
@ to see the difference, so it was banned and no adult can slap a child,...

In my opinion you made good arguments about the
pervasiveness of dystopia but I disagree with physical
abuse of children, eg, slapping them. Restraining them
or defending yourself when a child initiates a physical
attack is one thing. When however adults slap a child
initially, it's too often a signal the adult has lost control
of both him/her self and the child too.

Yes it may be far fetched but Hitler and his ideals have similarities with GSD and RSSB cult/ religion. Hitler is seen on a stage and would woo the german crowd , who felt that they were nothing in his presence; they would absolutely give there life for nationalism and his ideology; they were indoctrinated at birth ; they even had an official greeting, " Hi Hitler" which meant HEAL, ie spiritual conitations; they selected nordic Germanic blood in the SS elite and they controlled every aspect of there life, from marriage and finance , to personal affairs, all with the aim of ruling over the world of slaves. Further more the brainwashed germans regarded Hitler as their messiah and the germans thought he would save the world. Now in RSSB we have a charismatic leader, with an ideology (half baked cocktail of Hinduism, christianity sikhism and buddhism) who gives darshan which locks in the sangat into a submissive transe state that surrender everything without questioning; you must have noticed how rssb ideology conditions children who get indoctrinated at birth through sangat parents and family members that then go to satsang weekly for top up indoctrination; the gurudom is passed down a blood line with shivinder reported to be the next guru by contract; im sure you are aware that GSD is known to set up arranged marriages ( extending his control) all in line with recruiting and expanding the RSSB kindgom and greedy lust for money; and his hench men are his close sevadar, that are brainwashed enough to take a bullet for GSD, and finally enslaving innocent sangat into lies and expanding RSSB with world dominance. GSD, not only takes parts of your body, through donations, but he also takes your mind, through hypnosis, and repetition and edited books and your takes your soul in the after life as you agreed to it. He leaves nothing . Now tell me who is worse, a hypocrite that hides behind love and takes everything or Hitler .

@ Dungeness
I don't want to go to far in this topic but it reminded me of something in my youth.

I had some friends from well to do families, whose fathers would never raise their hands when the children were transgressing this or that rule but .... they would not speak to that child for one or two weeks, ignore the child, have it eating standing at the table for days at an end.

The idea alone that my parents would ignore me for even one hour pained me so much that I could not understand how these people could be so cruel.

These days people use the mental sticks, the intellectual and emotional slabs. These sticks and slabs don't leave any trace on the body but may last for years and years of pain in the heart ... ask some psychotherapist

Stolen money just happened to find its way into Gurinder's accounts... Year over year.... Nuff said.

@Truth warriors

Have you considered reaching out to Breitbart? Oh wait, I think InfoWars would be better.

Sonia who answered your million dollar question? What’s wasn’t his fault?

Posted by: Confused desi | September 01, 2020 at 09:13 AM

I can’t share that on an open forum. Email me.

Here's a head scratcher. More numbers and horse trading to ponder (2007-2015)...
https://www.business-standard.com/article/markets/the-dhillon-factors-in-religare-115093000975_1.html

The above is a little hard to square against GSD's claim that the family no longer owned shares of REL. In the Economic Times article about the rights issue Gurinder said that the original shares were pledged to lenders, the pledges invoked and shares sold at a substantial loss. Presumably, the new shares were also sold at a loss and the proceeds split 50:50 (as per the agreement) between RHC and the Dhillons. When the smoke cleared, the Dhillons had only Rs 103.5 crore cash on the RHC books, of which they drew Rs 29.38 crore between 2011 and 2015. Accordingly, Rs 74.12 crore were still due. By Gurinder's account all debts were paid, his family divested of REL and money owed them in spite of the huge beating they took for Mal and Shiv.

However, the graphic in the Business Standard article paints a completely different picture! Gurpreet and Gurkirat still have stakes as high as 6.48% until March 2012, as Shabnam's stake increased to 17.5% from 2013 to 2015--a valuation of Rs 915 crore!

So which was it? To me the stories completely contradict, but I'm not sure whether I understand finance well enough to interpret the articles correctly. Was Business Standard fed pure fiction. Was Shabnam fed pure fiction?

Sonia just fid

So which was it? To me the stories completely contradict, but I'm not sure whether I understand finance well enough to interpret the articles correctly. Was Business Standard fed pure fiction. Was Shabnam fed pure fiction?

Posted by: anami | September 01, 2020 at 07:35 PM

Yeah... that doesn’t quite balance. 🧐

Isn’t Spence the finance wiz here? Maybe he can reconcile it.

What a disgrace to Humanity GSD is, stealing and ripping his way through life even his own relatives and still living in total denial. Hard to believe this charlatan breeds and lives of others like a nasty little virus insisting to not go away. And mounting himself on a 20 foot high stage acting all high and mighty like gods only gift to this world.
Isnt there any sense of shame and embarrassment left? Well it looks like karma might just be playing out and soon GSDs times up I can hear Delhi High Court calling him home. Where ever he's hiding...

@anami

Honestly, I have no idea what most of those terms even mean. I’m not an idiot but I switch off when it comes to numbers. Science is fun. Numbers are 🥱

Although, if it was my money then it would have more meaning and I could explain it to you. (Then again, I probably wouldn’t because sounds like you’re investigating... )

10 years or so from now the courts will have this all wrapped up. So, no need to worry about it.

Seriously, is anyone gonna read the book? The more I think about it, India and China are the most unique countries in the world.

Check your Western mind at the door before entering.

Newsflash

RSSB chief summoned by EOW of Delhi Police

https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/radha-soami-satsang-beas-chief-summoned-by-eow-of-the-delhi-police/articleshow/77908292.cms

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