RSSB guru asks good question: "How do you know I'm not a fraud?"

Back in 2006 I wrote a post called "Who is the guru?" In it I said this about the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

Gurinder Singh is fond of saying, “How do you know that I’m not a fraud?” and “Maybe I just have the gift of gab.” Devotees consider statements like these to be Zen-like pointers toward his divinity. But who knows? Maybe he’s pointing toward his humanity without being able to explicitly speak of who he directly knows himself to be.

I don't know if the guru has continued to say those words. But I was reminded of them yesterday when I responded to an email sent to me by a disillusioned RSSB devotee who asked me some questions about my previous involvement with the organization and Gurinder Singh.

In part I said:

There are thousands of religions in the world. There’s no demonstrable evidence that any of them is objectively true.

 

If such evidence comes along, I’d seriously consider believing in that religion. Absent that evidence, I consider all religions to be false, including Sant Mat/RSSB. There rarely is a way to prove that something doesn’t exist, so the burden of proof rests on those who claim that something does exist. We can’t be 100% sure about anything, of course. All we can do is pursue truth and evidence as honestly as possible, recognizing it always is possible that we could be wrong.

 

...All religious leaders sound convincing, but that doesn’t mean they are speaking the truth. Every good salesperson sounds convincing. But we still need to think for ourselves to make sure the product they’re selling really is as good as they say. Same applies to people trying to sell us on a religion.

 

...Soon after Gurinder became the guru he was fond of saying things like, “How do you know I’m not a fraud?” and “How do you know whether I just have the gift of gab? (of speaking persuasively) Those are still good questions. He’s now been viewed as God in human form by his followers for thirty years. I suspect that Gurinder either actually believes he is a mystical adept, or he has had so much practice acting as if this is true he now puts on a convincing show for his followers.

 

This morning I did some additional reading in a book about a woman's pursuit of becoming expert at poker, "The Biggest Bluff" by Maria Konnikova. In her Reading Myself chapter, she has some interesting observations about understanding (or reading) the motivations of other people at a poker table that pertain to the question of who the RSSB guru really is.

God? Or a fraud?

Basically, it's complicated -- in poker or elsewhere in life -- because we humans are complex beings. Here's an initial step at understanding, or reading, as described by Konnikova.

Frank Lantz has developed a poker concept that he calls "donkey space" about the dynamic between two expert players who understand the game at a high level and are playing a heads up match -- that is, one on one. There's perfect theoretical play, which is unexploitable by any opponent, and then there's adjustment to that play based on your opponent's strategy.

...You watch them act and react over multiple situations and you try to adjust based on that behavior, to be maximally profitable against that particular person.

But now, if your opponent is good, they realize what you're doing -- and they adjust in turn. It may even be the case that they moved to this particular spot in strategy space on purpose, Lantz points out, so that they now exploit you better. They've given up equity for a little bit to then kick you once you've moved.

"I call this donkey space because a donkey is a fish, a player who is not playing perfectly," Lantz explains. "But these two people are like fighter pilots, maneuvering around each other, because in a dogfight, what you want is to be on your opponent's tail. That's where you can shoot them." He continues, "You're doing barrel rolls and triple flips, and you're constantly trying to outmaneuver this other person."

So that's one lesson from poker, which I suppose most of us already know, at least intuitively. There are layers upon layers of possible deception. 

A guru says, "How do you know I'm not a fraud?" The person hearing this has to decide what to make of those words. Is the guru being honest? Is he admitting to being a fraud without outright saying this, making it into a question rather than a statement? Or is the guru casting the responsibility onto his devotees to find the truth about himself, which could be a positive thing?

But there are more complex possibilities. The guru knows he is a fraud, so he sounds like he is admitting this, knowing that most of his devotees will refuse to believe it and rather view his words as manifesting a divine humility that shows his godliness, not his fraudness.

Here's another factor Konnikova talks about: the importance of knowing yourself if you wish to know other people.

I've been so busy focusing on reading the motivations in play for other people that I forgot to factor in myself. 

...Through careful observation, you not only have to learn how to tell the difference between your faulty intuitions and real data, but understand how to exploit what you've seen -- and how to know if you're being exploited in turn.

That last part is the one I seem to have momentarily forgotten. I've been so busy reading others that I've missed the step of stopping to read myself. Blake can only tell me what I'm giving off physically [at the poker table]. He doesn't have enough to go on to unravel my inner psychology and understand the internal tug-of-war that may be governing my actions.

...In turning my mind to tells and reads at this stage in my learning, I may have missed a crucial step: the first person you have to profile -- psychologically, not physically -- is yourself.

Great point. When it comes to gurus, why does someone want to believe in them so much? What need is being fulfilled by embracing the notion that a guru is God in human form when there is no evidence of this? Why is blind faith so attractive in the realm of religion when so much care goes into not being taken advantage of in one's worldly life?

Gurinder Singh Dhillon

 

Comments

[cultspeak101]

The very fact that Gurinder involves himself in this word game is a giveaway. Why? Because if the guru was indeed anything like what is advertised in RS literature it means that his level of awareness is light years more advanced than those who have no access to the inner realms. If he really had such incredible knowledge, the last thing he would do is play silly mind games with those who literally have no clue. The fact that he indulges in such shows the pettiness of his attainments and indicates that he isn't even wise ON this level.

Cult leaders talk like this ("how do you know I am not a fraud?"), not those who are genuine since they would not self-reference themselves as a master. Gurinder is making a claim about himself that is completely unnecessary since it shouldn't be about him at all, since he is only a conduit to that which is supposed to transcend him. The fact that he is making it about himself is egotistical to the extreme and reminds one of poser gurus in the 1970s who thought they were being humble or clever.

Hopefully, he is given up this type of rhetoric, especially in light of how Charan's own grandsons are in jail and one of them is accusing Gurinder of the very thing that he should be readily ashamed of.

Humility is cornerstone of wisdom and playing on people's minds is illustrative a bad amateur hour.

Life is hard enough not to have a guru make others focus on him as this or that.

No, a guru points beyond himself, not to himself.

[Ryan]

Yep, he still says that...

[s*]

Brian,
My thinking is ..
We are all God in human forms..
Even plants and stones are actually holy..because nothing is not God..
He calls himself a teacher..
I personaly find him very very FINE..
So I enjoy the vids.

Everything is right inside us so there is no contradiction in that.
As you also say Brian ,it's all inside our very own self..
True but inspiration is beautiful when it is there.
It helps very much to go trough life lightly..and lovingly..

[Vinny]

A blogger can write 100 + pages book but he cannot speak for 100 minutes. How do you know he is not a fraud like other Babas ??

[Dungeness]

@ Cult leaders talk like this ("how do you know I am not a fraud?"), not those who
@ are genuine since they would not self-reference themselves as a master.
@ Gurinder is making a claim about himself that is completely unnecessary since it @ shouldn't be about him at all, since he is only a conduit to that which is
@ supposed to transcend him.

The "cult" tag ignores the context of his remark. The mystic
insists on experience inside to verify a practice's claims.
Gurinder is dispelling the notion that pious words from a
guru on a stage should be swallowed without proof.

A meditative discipline is needed. A rigorous way to peek
inside to become mindful of our thoughts and direct our
attention one-pointedly. They're essential to confirm the
words are true.

Without that proof, it's a religion. The actor on stage is a
carnival barker selling holy water. So tests must ensue. You
must actually exercise the testing protocols and verify the
claims. Otherwise, he says "how do you know that I am
not a fraud?".

[cultspeak101]

Again, why is he self-referencing? It is not about him, yet in the context in which he writes
he makes the issue about whether he is a fraud or not.

No, this is mental yo yo, since it is a mind trap and an unnecessary one.

One doesn't have to go very far to hear the exact same rhetoric spewed by cult leaders of the 1970s.

The test isn't about him but he is making it such.

One can simply state the obvious: meditate for yourself.

[Dungeness]

@ He makes the issue about whether he is a fraud or not.

I disagree. He makes the issue about experiencing the
truth internally and not credulously accepting what you
hear from a stage actor. To say "self-referencing" is "the
exact same rhetoric spewed by cult leaders of the 1970s"
is rhetoric in itself.

What is the evidence for it? Rhetoric says trust my opinion.
He's clearly a cult leader. Look at his self-absorption and
that damning self-reference. Don't decide on the merits or
what you've experienced.

@ No, this is mental yo yo, since it is a mind trap and an
@ unnecessary one. One can simply state the obvious:
@ meditate for yourself.

Mystics encourage others with that message every day.
Many don't listen. They engage either in shallow idol
worship or they scream he's a fraud. Both are cultic
responses.

[Uchit]

I look at the photo that Brian has put up on this post of the clown baba of beas and I clearly see anger in his eyes. Anger at the people that have found out that he has been found out and been exposed as a fraudster. Isn't it ironic that someone that has been hiding from cameras all his life now cant keep away from being in videos on YouTube. Is he afraid that the rssb sangat will disperse now that they are not fed by his web of lies and cannot cast his spell by his eyes in the guise of dresti or giving darshan - no other saint has ever done this. And it's interesting that he says "for all you know he could be the biggest fraudster on the planet" many times. That's admission means he can feel less guilty about what he is doing and lies he has been hiding from the sangat - a charlatan and a crook . This crook is exactly the same as the crook entity inside - this is what is meant by statement of " as above so below ". Becareful the devil doesnt come with horns like they say , he comes as a friend , how else can he decieve so many innocent souls

[cultspeak102]

I would be more impressed if he would cool it with the self-referencing and just focused on
how to encourage one to meditate better and live a moral life.

It would be more instructive if he would just tell the truth about why he is so involved with money, with first class travel, especially since the whole point of the path is that shabd is sweeter than all other worldly pleasures.

Too much time is spent in weird jokes with a sexual undertone that is inappropriate.

Look, we would say the same about any teacher....

Yes, he can give a wonderful satsang from time to time, but he is not exempt from being
criticized on several fronts..... since he is not shy about showing the weaknesses of his sangat for not meditating.

[Dungeness]

@ Yes, he can give a wonderful satsang from time to time, but he is not exempt
@ from being criticized on several fronts..... since he is not shy about showing the
@ weaknesses of his sangat for not meditating.

I agree it's appropriate to raise issues about these
reports of questionable behavior. It's laudable.
Bravo.

But the perception of a cult does not make it one
nor should the "F" tag ("fraudulent") be tossed into
the fray without legal proof. Calling RSSB itself a
cult isn't apt. That word hints the whole practice is
fraudulent too. Again there's no proof of that... only
that a kangaroo court is in session.

[Dr Satpurush]

shivinder is out on bail.

[Ryan]

shivinder is out on bail.

Posted by: Dr Satpurush | July 29, 2020 at 03:24 AM

Yep, I know. And GSD left Dera to get the cash and bailed him out. He had to or that Singh was gonna start singing.

☑️ Fraud
🔘 God

[truth]

He is waaaay past being a fraud. He’s a money laundering, embezzling, wife murdering psychopath. Shabnam’s family along with the ED should be investigating Shabnam’s death. It stinks to high heaven.

[Uchit]

Brian the look on the face of the guru on the photo in this blog shows someone that is not a happy man. He has been hiding all his life and due to the internet is beginning to be exposed for his criminal activities and his real true nature out side the fake facade in satsangs. He has been avoiding his karma for lifetimes. Isn't it ironic how he avoided the limelight of the camera for years and now that everyone is on lockdown he is clowning about on youtube. This demonstrates how pathetic and desperate rssb institution has become in losing the sangat as they need them to keep the circus going - The circus on the physical plane and spiritual planes. I have heard many times GSD say he could be the biggest criminal on the planet. This demonstrates how blind the sangat have become over the many years and that no one would ever question him thinking it is inappropriate or very disrespectful. If you look outside the box you will see how subtly your freedom of an independent enquiry into rssb is taken away. You are supplied with bias rssb books to read; you are not allowed to look at the internet and all the questions in Q and A s now have to be pre vetted which means the real questions will never ever be asked.
The devil has totally sealed all holes around you and you are totally trapped by the puppet master, and sold your soul to the so called lord of the soul.

[s*]

We should seek our own soul in our own body..
Soul,Shabd,God..whatever we call it..
All Murshids ,Masters Wizzarts always told and tell.
We never “know” who another soul is/was or will be..

The book ‘ from self to Shabd’
Is really a wise and enlightening read!

[JC]

so can you all prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is or isnt a fraud? Or are you all just giving yoour self opinions because the path (did not) meet-s your individual requirements and for that you may or may not hold some sort of resentment towards the path that this guru teaches.

I am not an initiate of RSSB but I do believe in we have no right to pass judgement on anyone without having that prrof of reasonable doubt.

I have researched other religions as well as this path and from what I can tell is all that is asked of you is to try the science experiment of giving 2.5 hrs of your daily time to sitting to a meditation. There is no requirment to donate monies attend any church do any other rituals except for not to eat meat,fish,eggs take drugs and alcohol, which all seem fairly reasonable requests to me.

If you believe in a God then of course some faith is required.

But Im sure majority of science all starts with a theory before proven. or disproven

[SMS]

“I am not an initiate of RSSB...” (We’ve heard that 100 times. It’s getting old.)

A Deal with the Devil

Foolish ambitions
The greed of gluttons
Dissembles the heart
Desires burn flesh
Summon him from the dark
Come forth minion of evil
Give your gift to him
Fulfill his heart fantasies
At the end of the river
Drink a stream of pain
Devil's gold is sweet
All who come to take
Will be fed with juicy lies
Fool there is no escape
A deal is a deal
You must pay its price

~ Eyan Desir

[Vinny]

if 90 % of people start experimenting with bretharianism/ living without food on liquids or without liquids and 50% become successful at it. Where would Sant-Mat go ?? On Mars or Venus.

[Joining dots]

Documents show guru did put the majority of the money on his wife's shabnams name. It seems she may have been made a sacrific for gurinder singh dhillan so that this fraudster would get away with massive money laundering charges by claiming it wasn't him. Also isnit a coincidence that he has been working hard sucking up to modi, and when the opportunity arrised offering his dera for covid patients?, why now, why hasn't he opened up his dera for the poor. Also it appears he him self has legged it to haynes park UK in isolation. Isnt it another coincidence that shivinder, the future cult successor, has just recently been released on bail - smells like more favours from modi. Join the dots. GSD is very slippery . A full independant investigation is required into the death of shabnam to find out how she passed away and what has happened to all the money .

[Guru whaaat?]

He’s at Haynes Park now?? I didn’t think he was allowed to leave the country. That must have been recent. He said he was going to Singapore for medical treatment but returned a few days later. Maybe he’s in the U.K. for medical treatment. Or to gather documents...

[Letsmakethisahugebigthinh]

I think Scotland Yard should look into it. I mean that’s their jurisdiction. And it’s international. And I’d just really like to know. It’s the least they can do.

[MI6]

I think Scotland Yard should look into it. I mean that’s their jurisdiction. And it’s international. And I’d just really like to know. It’s the least they can do.

Posted by: Letsmakethisahugebigthinh | July 30, 2020 at 04:55 PM

Wrong. It’s our jurisdiction.

[for all you x-ers]

He’s undergoing cancer treatments in U.K.

[Mike]

@for all you x-ers

He was released from hospital and is currently in isolation in UK.

[In Search Of]

Shivinder is not out on bail. He was granted a bail application with conditions of not leaving the country etc, but he is still at the Tihar jail since he still has not been granted bail on the other charges.

The enforcement directorate is still investigating both the Singh brothers.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/enforcement-directorate-moves-supreme-court-against-bail-granted-to-shivinder-singh/articleshow/77276970.cms

[Osho Robbins]

" The mystic insists on experience inside to verify a practice's claims.
Gurinder is dispelling the notion that pious words from a
guru on a stage should be swallowed without proof." - Dungeness

Some people have a view that it's all about inner progress - the inner shabd etc.
However - that is JUST A BELIEF.
The same as any other belief.

the question is have YOU experienced the shabd, the radiant form and gone to sach khand?

Let's say you have. Now is that proof? or does it mean you created that experience?

It's not proof of anything - it's another belief.

Spence says (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he has the radiant for of GSD inside him and talks to that radiant form.
However - the RSSB teachings state that before a person can reach that state (which is considered in RSSB to be a high state) he has to have immense LOVE for the guru, yet spence is not record as saying "he should be behind bars"
Of course Spence can say that is an expression of his love - but that's not how love is for many
followers - they choose to side with him regardless of the evidence.
So which is the true love? and how do you decide?
It's all beliefs.

[Um]

@ Osho

Having inner experiences, is like experiencing the world through the senses, or having dreams and thoughts.... or experiences of love

What does it matter whether of one believes them or not.

If I see a tree, i just see a tree ... I could say: "I believe that I see a tree" ... what does it matter??

I could say on seeing a tree that I believe the tree is there or even the opposite .. what does it matter ... as I go on seeing that tree.

So I came to believe that there was a man by the name of Abraham, who had an experience in which him and his tribes people were given the land of Israel and his tribe labeled as the lords chosen people. I guess that he neither was able to doubt that experience, nor willing.
So far so good
The problem is not whether he believed that there was a god that gave it etc.
What matters is the conclusion, that IF there was an causative force apart from Abraham, that force failed to inform the worldly and spiritual leaders of other tribes elsewhere in the world.
So what we have is only the word of Abraham.

That same holds for all inner experiences of whatever mystic ... they are all individual .. like your daily thoughts, feelings and dreams.

Yes I do belief you have them ... but you cannot share them with me, nor proof what you say about the content.

[Osho Robbins]

What does it matter whether of one believes them or not.

If I see a tree, i just see a tree ... I could say: "I believe that I see a tree" ... what does it matter?? - um

You have mis-understood what I have written.

Truth is not a belief. Anything (including inner experiences) are a belief because the meaning you give to the experience is YOUR meaning and comes from your belief.

This goes much deeper than you think as you write your reply.

Anything you see or experience is part of maya and beliefs.

truth has nothing to do with seeing anything - despite your belief to the contrary

[Dungeness]

@ The question is have YOU experienced the shabd, the radiant form and gone
@ to sach khand? Let's say you have. Now is that proof? or does it mean you
@ created that experience?

Experiencing the shabd and "going to sach khand" is
pure awareness and transcends hearing a physical
sound at higher stages as I understand it. The "journey"
is not one of physical distance but of awareness only.
It can't be squeezed into a time frame either.

That "experience" is not comparable to anything at the
physical level at all. It is ineffable and affords its own
proof. The word "proof" itself becomes imponderable
at the stage of non-duality too. The mystics in trying to
describe it only say "neti, neti". (It's "not this", "not this").
They resort to metaphors as hints only. ("I traveled to
beautiful gardens in the upper regions" for example.)

@ It's not proof of anything - it's another belief.

Certainly not "proof" as we understand it. But, I wouldn't
call it a "belief" either for the same reason. We're unable
to conceive what those words mean beyond duality.

[Um]

@ Osho
Do you KNOW the truth??

Have you gone beyond mind and maya?

Or are you just reasoning about these things.

[Um]

Dungeness... you wrote.

>>Certainly not "proof" as we understand it. But, I wouldn't
call it a "belief" either for the same reason. We're unable
to conceive what those words mean beyond duality<<

Give how mystics have related about their inner experiences, one can conclude that they did both.

Based on their experience Abraham, believed that God had spoken to him and gave him the land of Israel, The prophet believed that the angel Gabriel had ordered him to write a holy book, and do other mystics state that their is an inner world divided in strata. Their actions are the proof of their belief.

But as I wrote ... that same suggested causative power failed to inform the rest of humanity.

So ... all people have private, inner experiences like they have private, dreams, thoughts and feelings. ...

And ... some of these private contents are "universal" ... the Kogi mystics believe that they are the ones that keep the world going and fins proof for their believes in their actions and the state of the earth.

The Kogi invited the BBC for a last warning documentary for us the ÿounger brothers" There has never been a "younger brother" that was "ordered" to heed the words of the kogi.

Likewise nobody was irdered by a causative force to heed the words of Abraham, Mozes, and other prophets and mystics.

We have only ..... THEIR WORD ..... our belief in what we HEARED ... the HEARSAY .... has become the PROOF of the experiences of individuals.

Circular reasoning.

That is why belief, faith etc is so much stressed in all religions ... it is needed as proof

[Osho Robbins]

"Experiencing the shabd and "going to sach khand" is
pure awareness and transcends hearing a physical
sound at higher stages as I understand it. The "journey"
is not one of physical distance but of awareness only.
It can't be squeezed into a time frame either." - Dungeness

HOW do you know all this?
Have you
(1) Heard it? / read it?
(2) made it up
(3) have no idea

or is it the fourth option:
You have personal experience and know exactly what you are talking about.

The problem is this:
everyone has just heard / read it ; or they are saying whatever they feel Is right
and they make it up as they go along.

The RSSB guru also does this: he makes it up as he goes along
he understands the power of belief.
He knows that ANYTHING he says, no matter how absurd will be accepted by the followers.
Why? because they have a CORE belief that he is the master and knows everything.
They give his words divine authority.

He can say the most ridiculous thing and everyone accepts it.

so let me dissect your answer above:
you say it is "pure awareness" - what exactly does "pure awareness" mean?
is there an "impure awareness"?
How will you know when you are in "pure awareness" as opposed to any different type.

And who said anything about a "physical" sound?
I understand you hear the shabd in your mind / your soul etc
but do you hear it - or think you hear it?
how would you know the difference?
How do you know that what you "see" in mediation is real and valid?

Do you have dreams? and in those dreams things happen, right?
you might even have dreams of your guru.
But you understand that a dream is just your mind making it up.
How do you know that meditation is not the same?

for 99% if not more of the followers, it's all fiction anyway because it hasn't happened to them
and they think it's "really hard" os they don't even try. They just follow. They hope.

Those who do experience, the experience means nothing.

All experiences are within duality.

As long as there are TWO things:
(1) YOU - the experiencer / the watcher / the awareness
(2) the THING (shabd,light) that you experience
then you are within DUALITY.

As long as there is a YOU - there is duality.

You will always continue to mis-understand, as long as the moment of "I get it" doesn't happen.

and it cannot happen if you dont have the ability to listen - dropping your own concepts.
you always think WITH your concepts which don't allow you to hear.
they act as a filter that distort all incoming data to fit in with your concepts.

hence listening is the hardest thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nSMi0whFEA
listen to this closely

and part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKOI_N-nvzM

but inevitably you will listen with preconceptions - hence you cannot hear what he says.

you sometimes say the "neti neti" qords from hindu scriptures

"Neti" is a negation of everything.
it is saying this: If you can SEE it, HEAR it, FEEL it, conceptualize it, then it's NOT it!
because it is that which is out side of time and space.
do you understand what that really means:
it means it DOES NO EXIST.
everything outside of time and space does not exist for you and me.
God cannot be seen or heard
if he IS seen or heard - then it's not beyond time or space - so it cannot be god.

God is that which does not exist in your world, which is the only world you can know.

8 mins into part 2:
a disciple is one who has put aside all his prejudices and is ready to listen
NOT TO HIS OWN MIND but to the buddha
he is not in a state of argument with the buddha

RSSB followers cannot possibly "get it" because they think it is a "thing"
they are trying to achieve or attain and cannot understand anything beyond that
because that is their god: light and sound and an experience.

Hence they are lost in a labyrinth of concepts and words.
and they cannot escape because they cannot hear the message of non-duality

I know because i was there for three decades.

[Osho Robbins]

"That "experience" is not comparable to anything at the
physical level at all. It is ineffable and affords its own
proof. The word "proof" itself becomes imponderable
at the stage of non-duality too." - Dungeness

if there are two - the experiencer and the the experience - then there is duality.

oneness is not an experience.

Seeking an experience is the barrier to truth.

if you seek an experience - then that shows you dont understand the nature of duality.

ONENESS is NOT and experience and it's NOT a feeling. Those are both in duality.

an example:
numbers are a concept, not a thing.
you cannot SEE numbers
you cannot write numbers either.

you might think you can - but only if you mis-understand.

the written '1' is a representation and a symbol for the concept of ONE.

I can hand you ONE or TWO coins.
I cannot hand you a ONE because ONE is just a concept - not a thing

you can apply 'neti neti' to ONE also

You cannot point to ONE
you can point to an example of ONE coin - but ONE is a concept
I cannot GIVE you that concept - but you can understand it

it is the same as realisation

I cannot GIVE you realisation - but you can possibly grasp the understanding of it
if you listen very closely.

so, if you don't understand numbers, you don't GET IT
you can say 2+2=4 but you wont understand

you will not know what 8-5 equals - unless someone tells you

once you understand the concept of numbers and what they mean - now
you dont need anyone to tell you.

realisation is the same.

once you understand - all the rest falls into place.

now you can say without any doubt and without a belief that
anything a person experiences IS duality.

now you cross over from beliefs to true understanding.

now you have no questions because you understand

one who understands numbers does not need to ask
"what is 4+8=?"

[Osho Robbins]

The gurbani explains about the ONE.
is says "AKAL" - Kal means TIME (also death) and AKAL means BEYOND TIME.
it says "ATHAI" (in Jaap sahib) - that means BEYOND SPACE (literally - no place)
and the meaning of NAAM is not what RSSB thinks and propogates

NAAM means "ponder on the nature of the ONE"
so we have the words "Naam Dhiyayo" meaning "ponder on the nature of...."
NAAM is synonymous with God - it doesnt mean a word you repeat or shabd etc

SHABD is also another word that is taken to mean something other than what the gurbani says

once you create those different meanings - the followers are effectively brain-washed
because now they cannot read gurbani anymore - they will get a different meaning.

Now they are doomed because they believe that they need NAAM and SHABD
and will spend their whole life chasing those - and cannot ever succeed
because they are not what they have been taught.

[Dungeness]

>>Certainly not "proof" as we understand it. But, I wouldn't
call it a "belief" either for the same reason. We're unable
to conceive what those words mean beyond duality<<

@ Give how mystics have related about their inner experiences, one can
@ conclude that they did both.

No, mystics speak metaphorically about their inner experiences.
They tell stories. They can only give hints about what's ineffable.
Not actualizing those "experiences" by following the mystic path
only leads deeper down the rabbit hole of duality. The mystic
goal is an opening of inner awareness to replace impoverished
notions of "belief" and "proof".

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Osho
The entire creation is numbers. We use numbers symbolically. But it turns out math describes the real world. And the real world is math. The more you dig into math, the more you are understanding aspects of this world. And understanding the world, you understand some things about math.

Any number can be divided into an infinite number of parts. Every single part is an infinity into itself. And every part is only a part of the infinite whole.

Every moment of time is discrete, static. But time is an infinite series of these static moments. And the summation is movement.

How can the infinite summation of static points become movement and time?

Learn to see just one, just one moment as a series of moments, and then those individual moments made each of a series, like a fractal. Try to understand one leaf of that branch.

This is how consciousness can step outside of time.

Oneness is great. But to understand it in its whole, that is a deeper process of division, down from the mindless exponential we live in, into the single static moment.

[Dungeness]

@ Any number can be divided into an infinite number of parts. Every single part is @ an infinity into itself. And every part is only a part of the infinite whole.

Lovely, Spence.

If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. --William Blake

[manoj]

I think Gurinder GSD likes to play with the idea of having a personal laugh to himself knowing all along that hes a one of a kind Con Artist Fraudulent baba. And he think's he's fooled the world and got away with it. But GSD you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. The cats out of the bag, Game Over GSD! A definite case for Scotland Yard, Fraudulent dealings and the suspicious death of Shabnam dhillion needs to be fully investigated.

[UK]

I think Gurinder GSD likes to play with the idea of having a personal laugh to himself knowing all along that hes a one of a kind Con Artist Fraudulent baba. And he think's he's fooled the world and got away with it. But GSD you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. The cats out of the bag, Game Over GSD! A definite case for Scotland Yard, Fraudulent dealings and the suspicious death of Shabnam dhillion needs to be fully investigated.

Posted by: manoj | August 02, 2020 at 02:27 PM

The truth is she probably committed suicide and no one can blame her considering the circumstances she was put in.

[Osho Robbins]

"The entire creation is numbers. We use numbers symbolically. But it turns out math describes the real world. And the real world is math. The more you dig into math, the more you are understanding aspects of this world. And understanding the world, you understand some things about math.

Any number can be divided into an infinite number of parts. Every single part is an infinity into itself. And every part is only a part of the infinite whole." - Spence

I wish I could say I understood any of that - but I would be lying.

First of all - I said that "numbers are a CONCEPT not a thing"
spence says: The entire creation is numbers

but I just said "numbers" are a concept - a thing cannot BE a concept
it can be understood through that concept - but it cannot BE the concept itself.

so Spence says creation / universe IS actually made up of numbers (actual numbers)
that statement is absurd - yet that is what he has written.

What you are trying to say is something very different, namely that numbers and maths explains many things in nature. completely different statement.

then Spence writes:
Any number can be divided into an infinite number of parts. Every single part is an infinity unto itself. And every part is only a part of the infinite whole
and Dungeness applauds the statement, without understanding.

I have no idea what Spence means again.
Take any number: ok - let's take a number say 56
you say it can be divided into an infinite number of parts.
well it can be divided into only 56 parts
but obviously infinite parts if you bring fractions in.

so lets bring in fractions.

every fraction is part of the whole - that is obvious. Hardly even needs to be stated.
but every fraction IS an infinity unto itself - that's just not true and makes no sense.

If I take a piece of paper - I have one paper.
I can cut it into two pieces - and even into 100 pieces.
so what? nothing profound in that.
yes - the 100 pieces are part of the original one piece of paper
but those pieces are not infinite. Even the one piece is not infinite
put those pieces together and you arrive back at the 56. How is that infinite?

it can be divided smaller and smaller - until it reaches some limit - that does not make it infinite.

maybe Spence means "infinitely small" - which is different from infinite.

there is some limit to how small it can be divided.
practically that limit is reached fairly quickly. I can't divide it once I can hardly see it.
However theoretically that limit is further away - but still there.

Besides we are talking about dividing something smaller - so each piece is not infinite.

so
"every single piece is an infinity unto itself" is a nonsense statement
so not sure what Dungeness is applauding or what he understood by it.

My guess is "it just sounded impressive"

many people get impressed by that which sound impressive - without trying to understand the statement

[anami]

C'mon, let's not spin conspiracy theories. She died in a UK hospital of complications following abdominal surgery. Google it.

How could she come to violence of any kind? She must've been in intensive care surrounded by hospital staff and getting extra attention as the wife of a famous guru. Anything suspicious, someone would've noticed.

[UK]

C'mon, let's not spin conspiracy theories. She died in a UK hospital of complications following abdominal surgery. Google it.

How could she come to violence of any kind? She must've been in intensive care surrounded by hospital staff and getting extra attention as the wife of a famous guru. Anything suspicious, someone would've noticed.

Posted by: anami | August 03, 2020 at 07:29 AM

One way or the other, he killed her. All that stress he put her under with all the business deals pointing to her being Director of the majority of companies (as if she was some sort of mastermind, please). It brought huge public attention and scrutiny and disgrace to her. At the very least her health problems were caused by her stress. MOST people would get a massive bleeding ulcer from that bullshit.

And which hospital? It just says hospital. It never mentions an actual hospital name which is weird.

He made her life a living hell by putting all those companies in her name. Who knows what else he did. She was NOT a business woman. She didn’t do that by herself. What kind of person would do something like that to their own wife??? It’s beyond my comprehension.

If they had actually gone to court Nov 14 like they were supposed to, most likely all 5 of them would have been taken into custody that day. And GSD knew that. And so did she and the rest of them. So they all made lame excuses for not showing up when ALL of them very well could have been there.

She had to live with the reality that as long as she lived her two sons and daughter in law were going to wind of in jail and her sons likely in prison. I’m not sure she cared too much about her husband at that point.

And no one in the U.K. gives a flying fuck about this “famous guru”. He’s only famous in a certain part of India. India grows “famous gurus” like weeds. If anything he’s only known in the U.K. for his shady business deals.

She was only in ICU for a few days at most. She died a week after surgery “in hospital” so she would have been in a private room.

However, with Shabnam gone the case was closed “by default”.

Either she died from the stress he put her through or she overdosed on pain killers (which is fairly easy to do in a hospital if one is bent on it).

OR, maybe it actually was murder. Although I believe the first two options are the most likely ones.

Who knows. Either way you look at it, he killed his wife. If he can treat his wife that way, think what else he’s capable of.

[UK]

For the record, every media outlet regurgitated the same blurb about her death which was issued by RSSB press sec.

She wasn’t famous enough internationally for news outlets to write about her death.

RSSB initiated the media release.

[anami]

"She was NOT a business woman."

UK,

Exactly. What judge would be fooled? I don't think her death served any great criminal purpose. As to her shame or level of stress, I have no idea, but if she wanted to die, why leave home?

My word "famous" was maybe too strong, but hospitals always have their hands out and would know when a squillionaire checks in.

[Dungeness]

@ many people get impressed by that which sound impressive - without trying
@ to understand the statement

I think you can substitute "all" for "many". A stunning picture
captures the attention for instance. It's truly impressive. An
intuitive glance leapfrogs analysis of its beauty. There's only
gratitude and awe as you stand in silent appreciation. You
swiftly distill the essence without all the plodding chatter
and commentary of the mind.

Analysis, at its best,, divides, breaks down, and fractures. It's
divisive, distractive, and tunnel-visioned. It sees the trees and
not the forest. The beautiful picture before you lies in pieces
on the floor while the analyst drones on about the artist's real
intent and other historical minutiae.

The artist and his admirers weep at the scene. The analyst looks
on bewildered and says "What it something I said? Did?". But
despair not if you want to analyze and understand. That's alright
too. An analytic mind is needed to develop a vaccine for novel
coronavirus.

[Dot connector]

The dirty lying baba of beas will one day have to face his karma. I smell a rat the way his wife went to uk, and next thing you know died so suddenly. This needs to be treated as highly suspicious circumstances . There seems to be a motive and why it would benefit the bent baba . Could it be murdered? Or suicide with stress. One thing for sure an investigation is needed You cant hide too long GSD.

[UK]

There was no named hospital. This is highly unusual. Only RSSB gave the material for the news media reports. No journalism was involved.

Going to the U.K.? Being that she died in the United Kingdom a death certificate cannot be produced for up to 12 months after a foreigner passes.

News reports were enough to keep the Indian courts at bay for a while longer. If she did in fact die in a hospital, the name of that hospital will not be disclosed until November 2020. This gives a grace period for the guru to fabricate a death certificate. If she had died in India, a full investigation into her death would have taken place immediately.

[UK]

Keep in mind we’re talking about a “holy man” who’s own brother thinks he’s a fraud and won’t have anything to do with him let alone speak to him.

[UK]

>
Mr. Shivinder Singh, his elder brother Malvinder Singh and three others (Sunil Godhwani, Kavi Arora and Anil Saxena) have been arrested on allegations of cheating and diverting funds of Religare Finvest Limited to the tune of ₹2,397 crore.

>
Singh brothers sent to 14 days judicial custody in Religare case

>
The Delhi HC court had asked Gurinder Singh Dhillon and his family members, Singh brothers, former Religare chief Sunil Godhwani and his brother Sanjay Godhwani to be present at the court hearing on November 14.

>
The ED arrested Singh and Godhwani on 14 November, following which their custody with the ED was extended twice.

>
Delhi court Monday extended by a week the custodial interrogation of former Fortis Healthcare promoter Malvinder Singh and former CMD of Religare Enterprises Ltd (REL) Sunil Godhwani by the ED in a money laundering case related to alleged misappropriation of funds of Religare Finvest Ltd (RFL).

“Summons to other related persons [Dhillons] have been issued who have been required to attend proceedings in next days and accused would be needed to confront with those summoned persons. Accused have given ***evasive*** replies to various queries put to him," Rana told the court.

>
Shabnam Dhillon passes away.
According to a statement before Delhi High Court, Shabnam went to London on November 12 for treatment of gastric troubles. She and other members of the Dhillon family had been summoned to appear before the court in person in relation to the Daiichi Sankyo case.
As per the filing, Shabnam had undergone abdominal surgery in United Kingdom on November 20. She later developed some complications post surgery. She breathed her last at an England hospital at 3:00 am IST Nov 27.

>
“While Gurinder Singh Dhillon said he had “"satsang commitments"” outside Delhi on the hearing day, his wife Shabnam Dhillon cited a scheduled gastric surgery at a UK hospital on November 20, saying she needed to travel to the country on November 12. Indicating his inability to be present in court, Gurinder Singh also said he's “"senior citizen, diabetic and cancer patient"”. Dhillon's son Gurkeerat said he had to accompany his mother to the UK for the treatment. His elder son Gurpreet said he's in Singapore. Dhillon's daughter-in-law Nayan Tara Dhillon cited her four-year-old son's hip implant treatment for her inability to be present in the court.

Interestingly, RSSB's Satsang schedule on its website shows no Satsang has been planned on November 14. The Rudrapur Satsang, which begins on November 12, ends on November 13.

The question now is whether there are already any lookout notices against the Dhillon family and other 55 garnishees. And whether the court would prevent any of them from travelling abroad -- fearing escape.”

[Observer]

The death of Shabnam Dhillon served a great purpose.

Her sacrifice meant that everyone is off the hook as the was the key witness.
Her sons, the guru, and the reputation of RSSB - everything gets saved by one timely death.

pay off a few people and we can all pretend everything is fine. It was just a nightmare.

everything will be forgotten soon. Not sure what will happen to the singh brothers.

The guru was in too deep and like all clever people he hatched the perfect plan to escape.

Most likely it will work because if you pay most people in India - they will co-operate.
so the case will be dropped and no investigation.

Long live RSSB and the guru - that will be the slogan from the followers
as I doubt if any of them care - as long as their guru comes out ahead.

[UK]

Nov 23
Delhi court Monday extended by a week the custodial interrogation of former Fortis Healthcare promoter Malvinder Singh and former CMD of Religare Enterprises Ltd (REL) Sunil Godhwani by the ED in a money laundering case related to alleged misappropriation of funds of Religare Finvest Ltd (RFL).

Nov 23
“Summons to other related persons [Dhillons] have been issued who have been required to attend proceedings in next days and accused would be needed to confront with those summoned persons. Accused have given ***evasive*** replies to various queries put to him," Rana told the court.

> Nov 27
Shabnam Dhillon passes away.

[Sonia]

@UK

Maybe Shabnam is actually alive and well living in the U.K. and Gurinder is there visiting her now. Perhaps they got a body from the Dera morgue to use at her cremation. 🙄

Then you wouldn’t have to say he’s a “killer”. Maybe just a little dishonest.

[Indiasgurusareinsane]

https://sadhgurukilledhiswife.wordpress.com/

[rajashekar]

Observer wrote - Her sacrifice meant that everyone is off the hook as the was the key witness.
Her sons, the guru, and the reputation of RSSB - everything gets saved by one timely death.

yes she was key witness and death timely and untimely saving RSSB and locking up malvinder, Godhwani and others without true fair trial.

[Indiasgurusareinsane]

https://sadhguruexposed.wordpress.com/

Looks like RSSB chief takes lessons from Sadhguru on everything.

[As if]

I’m sure everyone’s minds will be put to ease when Shabnam’s autopsy report is released.

[The Village People]

October 5, 2011 Sadhguru wrote:

“The Salem Mega Program was a phenomenal success. For a little city like Salem to enroll 10,300 participants for a three-day event is a never-before happening. The extraordinary discipline and enthusiasm with which Salemites participated is exemplary and a true revolution in this city. The role that our little ones, the Isha Samskriti children, are playing in the making of these programs is becoming indispensible. These children are truly amazing.

Yesterday, we had Sri Gurinder Singh Ji of the Radha Soami Satsang Beas as our guest, a great leader and a wonderful human being. It is nice to be catching up with some dynamic and dignified spiritual clan.“

[anami]

Let's imagine the explosive testimony Shabnam could've given:

"My husband handles our business affairs. He showed me papers to sign. As a dutiful wife, I signed them. I don't know about such matters."

[Frenemies]

“Tara” comments July 3, 2018 post on CotC

“Now, lets talk about Charlie's Angels. The CEO of Religare Enterprises Ltd. is an initiate named Mr. Sunil Godhwani - the personal treasurer and right-hand man of the Guru. He is also the Guru's long-time friend. Closed-door meetings are often held at Mr. Sunil Godhwani's farmhouse in New Delhi and the Guru is constantly in touch with him on the phone when they're apart. ( Even the chauffeurs know about this ! )

Mr. Godhwani's residence is the Guru's home for all ' unofficial ' visits into the capital. How do I know this ? A close family has a relative who works for Religare, and I'm good friends with people who are well connected with the ' inner circle ' members. This information has also been confirmed by a dozen well known people from the Indian financial sector.”

—

Now GSD is all like Godhwani who ?? I barely spoke to the guy. GSD is pulling a big fat Trump on Godhwani. What a low blow while poor Sunil slowly rots in Tihar Prison for his guru friend’s mistake.

[Truth warrior]

It is sickening how a so called, self proclaimed, man of god can sit on youtube and deliver so called videos keeping his sheep in line during this pandemic - a total hypocrite. Even more sickening is the very suspicious circumstances of the death of his wife, where he had everything to gain from her death from getting away with fraud in the Delhi court case . Hes a total fraud and sick narcissist, god help the blind sangat that are trapped in the rssb trap. The whole rssb path right from Jaimel, the creater of the beas lineage, is totally corrupt. It has always been a cunning devils trap . GSD you will face your karma

[Sonia]

Let's imagine the explosive testimony Shabnam could've given:

"My husband handles our business affairs. He showed me papers to sign. As a dutiful wife, I signed them. I don't know about such matters."

Posted by: anami | August 04, 2020 at 01:47 PM

Exactly. And then Baba would have been arrested. 😂

[Dungeness]

RE: "My husband handles our business affairs. He showed me papers to sign.
RE: As a dutiful wife, I signed them. I don't know about such matters."

@ Exactly. And then Baba would have been arrested.

I don't think the "innocent waif" defense works any more.
They woulda been "cellies" once again.

[Sonia]

@Truth warrior

Interesting I watched half of 015 tonight (don’t ask me why—when I do things like that I question my own sanity). Something he said in that video smacked me in the head really hard. He said you should never show weakness because people will take advantage of it. And I thought holy shit you’re right. Never show weakness like I did asking such a stupid question at Q&A at Dera in 2018! I asked a question about suicide and mental illness and he totally took advantage of my “weakness” in front of everyone. On top of being totally humiliating it was deeply traumatic because those were seriously (and very sincere) questions I had about the most painful moments of my life. But he took advantage of my “weakness” to make me look like a fool in front of all those people on top of berating me for being depressed and suicidal.

The person you see in SMS with GSD is not the true Gurinder. For one they edit those tapes and 2) he is constantly catching himself aware that his comments are going to be dispersed on the internet for all potential newbies. It’s like he’s soliciting the Sant Mat of RSSB for more followers.

But if you’ve ever seen him in person at a live unfiltered, unedited Q&A you know he’s not really like that. He has moments of “compassion” and plenty of moments of harsh uneducated judgemental reprimands for those he sees as “weak”. That’s not the sort of behavior anyone expects from a true guru.

It’s like 2 years later I’m still waiting for some semblance of empathy. Not even a formal apology. Just a willingness to accept that some people experience things that he has no experience with and no real understanding of.

I know better than to show weakness. My whole life I’ve believed that life is a constant power struggle in relationships. However, despite the differences he and I had leading up to that moment I never expected HIM of all people on earth to take advantage of my completely out of character willingness to be vulnerable.

On so many levels it was traumatic yet he brushed it off. Even laughed it off.

He’s not the person he portrays in those videos. Those videos are intended to gain an even larger following and admiration from his political supporters.

RSSB now claims to have 20 million followers. They must be counting every single person who’s applied for initiation since the beginning of the Dera. A few years ago they claimed 4 million followers. I seriously doubt they’ve initiated 16 million people in the last few years. But a number like 20 million gives RSSB much greater political power. Which is something he desperately needs right now.

The long and short of it is, Gurinder Singh Dhillon only cares about you if you have something to offer him. Don’t forget that. Never forget that. And never show any sort of weakness in his presence because he will most definitely take advantage of it.

I have never considered myself a weak or vulnerable person. That was a first for me. And it was only because, despite my doubts about him at the time, I still completely trusted him as a guru who would not take advantage.

Well, lesson learned.

Gurinder’s RSSB is all about power and initiating the elite and celebrities and the rich and the powerful. Never, never, never forget that.

[Sonia]

Most of the time when I reflect upon what happened that fateful pivotal day, I think GSD was primarily disgusted by my “weakness”. If I had been strong he would have been kind to me.

The reason that is so tragic is because he’s a spiritual teacher, a father figure and mentor.

Even my own Leo proud father who raised me to be very tough would never in a million years have displayed such harshness and disdain for someone he perceived as weak. And my father is no Saint by a long shot but he’s light years ahead of GSD from a compassionate, humane, spiritual perspective.

Although, I must admit my father would have smacked me in the head for displaying any sort of weakness in front of a person like GSD. Because my father fully understands men like Gurinder. He knows those types of men will only exploit you if you fall belly up at their feet.

[Sonia]

I only wish my father could meet Gurinder. He would destroy the self proclaimed “God man” with the flick of his wrist. What a fool Gurinder is. I told my dad a little about GSD and he said the man is an abomination to the brotherhood of men.

At least I never had GSD for a father. I thank God for that.

[Sonia]

Even the most arrogant Godman is no match for a father’s love of his daughter.

I consider myself truly blessed to have my dad and to be able to celebrate his birthday with him this weekend at the lake house.

[Truth warrior]

GSD is rotten to the core. He has lied behind the sangat back, and then has the nerve to sit innocently on stage like a clown - thinking he is above the law and can get away with anything as he is truly blessed on earth - how deluded he has become. Little does he know that the people are wising up to his snaky snidy behaviour. He needs to be investigated by uk authorities for the possible death , directly or indirectly of his own wife. Karma is a bitch, GSD is not above the natural law.

[S]

Well, with all the horrible things Al Copone did the only thing they were able to pin on him was tax evasion. But that one thing was all they needed.

Every criminal at that level gets caught sooner or later.

I just keep thinking about Malvinder (GSD’s “adopted son”) and Sunil (GSD’s best bud) and Shabnam his wife and countless others so close to him and so trusting. Talk about betrayal.

[Scarface]

“Born in 1899 in Brooklyn, New York, to poor immigrant parents, Al Capone went on to become the most infamous gangster in American history. In 1920 during the height of Prohibition, Capone's multi-million dollar Chicago operation in bootlegging, prostitution and gambling dominated the organized crime scene.”

[CSI]

The death of Shabnam Dhillon served a great purpose.

Her sacrifice meant that everyone is off the hook as the was the key witness.
Her sons, the guru, and the reputation of RSSB - everything gets saved by one timely death.

pay off a few people and we can all pretend everything is fine. It was just a nightmare.

everything will be forgotten soon. Not sure what will happen to the singh brothers.

The guru was in too deep and like all clever people he hatched the perfect plan to escape.

Most likely it will work because if you pay most people in India - they will co-operate.
so the case will be dropped and no investigation.

Long live RSSB and the guru - that will be the slogan from the followers
as I doubt if any of them care - as long as their guru comes out ahead.

Posted by: Observer | August 04, 2020 at 04:16 AM

Put like that he definitely had motive. Beyond a shadow of a doubt he had motive.

[Brainwashed]

Oh c’mon, does this look like the face of a guy who could actually do anything to harm his own wife??

https://img.etimg.com/thumb/width-1200,height-900,imgsize-147423,resizemode-1,msid-74586534/news/politics-and-nation/rssb-chief-seeks-not-to-put-itr-on-record.jpg

[S]

Keep in mind we’re talking about a “holy man” who’s own brother thinks he’s a fraud and won’t have anything to do with him let alone speak to him.

Posted by: UK | August 03, 2020 at 05:34 PM

OK, now that’s truly bizarre. I mean his brother was also nephew to Charan Singh. What does his brother know? Probably a hell of a lot more than the rest of us... wonder why his only brother didn’t buddy up with him and share in all the fringe benefits—jets, luxury, nepotism.

Does anyone know his brother's name? Now I’m curious.

[Jen]

"I asked a question about suicide and mental illness and he totally took advantage of my “weakness” in front of everyone."

Maybe if you look at this experience as being helpful and valuable in that it gave you a shock and will stop you from putting faith in these fake gurus. Its not easy if you have family who still put this person on a pedestal but imo it seems like Gurinder does not have any empathy or wisdom.

[Sonia]

@Jen

You’re spot on about that. If it weren’t for that moment (which bizarrely coincided with the exact same time that Shivinder attacked Malvinder and it went viral on YouTube and the Indian press) I would still be following RSSB like a blind sheep.

It was a good thing—a great thing for me. Not so much for Gurinder but definitely good for me.

Thanks 🙏

[Serious Question]

If GSD makes Shivinder his successor do you think the Indian sangat will actually follow Shivinder given everything that’s happened in the news.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"...It had, however, said that the award was not enforceable against five minors, also shareholders in Ranbaxy, saying they cannot be held guilty of having perpetuated a fraud either themselves or through any agent..." (Full article omitted)

https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/companies/amid-daiichi-ranbaxy-row-delhi-hc-restricts-selling-srl-trademark-120070900743_1.html

Not sure if anyone here remembers when the HC of India ordered ALL entities (including Gurinder Singh Dhillon) to disclose documents in connection with the Singh Bros and their case pending with Daiichi Sankyo.

[SEBI]

"...It had, however, said that the award was not enforceable against five minors, also shareholders in Ranbaxy, saying they cannot be held guilty of having perpetuated a fraud either themselves or through any agent..." (Full article omitted)

https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/companies/amid-daiichi-ranbaxy-row-delhi-hc-restricts-selling-srl-trademark-120070900743_1.html

Not sure if anyone here remembers when the HC of India ordered ALL entities (including Gurinder Singh Dhillon) to disclose documents in connection with the Singh Bros and their case pending with Daiichi Sankyo.
Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | August 05, 2020 at 07:54 PM

Not sure what your point is. Could you be more specific?

https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/delhi-hc-orders-rssb-chief-gurpreet-singh-dhillon-to-appear-in-court-on-nov-14/articleshow/71610241.cms

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

Not sure what your point is. Could you be more specific?

Posted by: SEBI | August 05, 2020 at 09:49 PM

The quote from the Business Standard article was the point.

The High Court must have reviewed all the documents since their original order to now currently find no one but the Singh Brothers accountable in this case. Yet people here keep saying that Gurinder Singh is somehow accountable beyond the Judge's Findings, which I believe he couldn't be given all the recent reports on this Daiichi Sankyo Case.

Now was that specific enough for you or is there something else you think needs a bit more clarification?

[SEBI]

@Karim

There are multiple cases involving the Singhs and Dhillons. The one you are referencing has to do with trademarks and sale. They weren’t going to court Nov 14 over that.

[SEBI]

Karim,

You realize there are multiple charges. This is a highly complex case. They’ve had numerous court summons over various aspects of money laundering and misappropriation. Each case comes with its own sentence. Which is why, for example, Shivinder was released on bail recently for one charge but can’t actually leave Tihar jail because he’s still being held for charges from other cases.

They have lodged so many complaints against these people that you’re not just looking at one case.

This is why the term FUBAR was created.

[Sonia]

Karim,

I honestly don’t think anyone really cares what crimes the RSSB guru may have committed. Not at this point anyway. He’s no different from Sadhguru and all the other high profile gurus of India. This is an Indian culture of guru worship problem. This is India’s problem. They have a long history of tolerance of criminal and very questionable activity from their gurus. They tolerate it when a god man’s followers equal a number that can benefit them politically.

There’s nothing truly unique or special about the crimes RSSB and guru have committed. It’s just typical India cult behavior.

Ain’t no big thang...

[Dungeness]

@ There’s nothing truly unique or special about the crimes RSSB and guru
@ have committed.

Just for accuracy, that should be "allegedly committed" in the
case of GSD who, however well predicated the investigation of
him, is as yet uncharged.

[Vinny]

Guru model is booming because all other models have failed, asian model, christian model , persecution of sufis model . End result can be all models being replaced by Sant Mat / RSSB model.

[Vimal]

Hi All,

Can anyone tell why do they put board 'Private Property' outside of UK Hynes RSSB center whenever GSD Baba is the Building. This board disappears when Baba leaves

Is it a Private property????

Also they stopped using RSSB name for UK center and now using Science of the Soul

[Osho Robbins]

Can anyone tell why do they put board 'Private Property' outside of UK Hynes RSSB center whenever GSD Baba is the Building. This board disappears when Baba leaves

Is it a Private property????

It's obvious isn't it?
when there is no public event on (like a national satsang) then it's a private place and they don't want any visitors to just 'pop in' hence it's private property.

The rest of the time - they are not bothered if you just 'pop in'.

it's private property, no matter what anyone says, because it belongs to the organisation "RSSB" which is a registered charity.
The property does not belong to the sangat, as they are fond of saying, because that simply does not fit the facts.
The property belongs to RSSB society and that makes it private property

[Dera_Inc]

A full independant investigation is required into the death of shabnam to find out how she passed away and what has happened to all the money .

Posted by: Joining dots | July 30, 2020 at 03:27 PM

This ain't happening in anyone in here lifetime. So why burn yourself in your hate for GSD.

[Dera_Inc]

I think Scotland Yard should look into it. I mean that’s their jurisdiction. And it’s international. And I’d just really like to know. It’s the least they can do.

Posted by: Letsmakethisahugebigthinh | July 30, 2020 at 04:55 PM

Wrong. It’s our jurisdiction.

Posted by: MI6 | July 30, 2020 at 04:58 PM

Sorry fellas, we decide what either of Scotland yard or MI6 does or doesn't do.

GSD is way beyond your pay grades

[Dera_Inc]

Spence says (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he has the radiant for of GSD inside him and talks to that radiant form.
However - the RSSB teachings state that before a person can reach that state (which is considered in RSSB to be a high state) he has to have immense LOVE for the guru, yet spence is not record as saying "he should be behind bars"
Of course Spence can say that is an expression of his love - but that's not how love is for many
followers - they choose to side with him regardless of the evidence.
So which is the true love? and how do you decide?
It's all beliefs.
Posted by: Osho Robbins | July 31, 2020 at 12:33 PM

@osho

Anyone who has experienced the radiant form of his master wouldn't be wasting his time in here debating.

[Dera_Inc]

Truth is not a belief. Anything (including inner experiences) are a belief because the meaning you give to the experience is YOUR meaning and comes from your belief.

This goes much deeper than you think as you write your reply.

Anything you see or experience is part of maya and beliefs.

truth has nothing to do with seeing anything - despite your belief to the contrary

Posted by: Osho Robbins | July 31, 2020 at 05:26 PM

Can truth be experienced? And if yes, where?

[Dera_inc]

I know because i was there for three decades.

Posted by: Osho Robbins | August 01, 2020 at 02:27 AM

We notice you use the past tense. We are extremely pleased.

[The sangat]

Dera _inc shouldn’t you be meditating rather than wasting away your precious life making pointless comments on here?

I hope you have the permission of satguru Girinder Dhillon to comment on here. We the sangat are not allowed to comment. Are you exempt?

[Jim Sutherland]

Attn. Dera- and The sangat,..............considering you are in the Inner Circle,..... please ask Gurinder Singh if he will take the COVID-19 Vaccinate as soon as it comes out, and if he recommends Satsangis to also take it, or will. Satsangi’s be exempt from COVID-19 infections, and may rely on protection from the Master. Or, perhaps some one can ask him this question in Q & As. Thanks.
Jim Sutherland

[Dera_Inc]

Attn. Dera- and The sangat,..............considering you are in the Inner Circle,..... please ask Gurinder Singh if he will take the COVID-19 Vaccinate as soon as it comes out, and if he recommends Satsangis to also take it, or will. Satsangi’s be exempt from COVID-19 infections, and may rely on protection from the Master. Or, perhaps some one can ask him this question in Q & As. Thanks.
Jim Sutherland
Posted by: Jim Sutherland | August 09, 2020 at 09:19 AM

It appears you are an exer for eons.... Else you wouldn't have asked these flimsy questions.

It's clear to satsangi's that they and even the Guru are/is not exempt from covid and are supposed to take all required preventive measures. Karma reigns and being initiated grants no exemption.

Being vaccinated is very much an individual's choice and that's what it will be for satsangi's.

[The Sangat]

Dera_Inc obviously has no faith in the guru.
How can the guru get covid? He is the lord in human form.
at least that is what we are told.

he writes his own destiny before he comes here
otherwise he is just a normal human like the rest of us

then what is the point of following him?

[Um]

Sangat ...

Heed his words ... meditate.
So you may finally have all your problems, and questions answered.

Like in the parable where a man seeks his keys in the street, knowing he lost them at home for no other reason than there is more light in the streets.

Asking gurus is the key ... they cannot give it ... but they might be able to hind that you go seeking were you lost them.

The keys are the REASONS, your personal reasons, why you asked for initiation.

[Dot connecter]

Um, what Nonsense about meditation, we have people doing hours of meditation and still have no answers; that's because they are going deeper into the devils lare. Repeating mantras and calling up spirits who give you false guidance , wake up guys. What answers have you had? It's all fake, the devil has worked it's way in all avenues. We are not going to hell, because we are there already. RSSB is a total fake system of god realisation. But a very clever money making and honey trap for the millions of innocent. Just look at the so called leader ,Gurinder singh the joke dhillan. The hypocrite, the master mind behind the fraud. He has put people in place around him to take the fall, like a mafia boss. RIP shabnam , karma will catch up with your husband, the crook that's written to the core.

[um]

@ Dot Connector

There is nothing and nobody in life that is worth ones dedication but without dedication life itself becomes worthless.

Your talk about spirits and devils, only cherished by strange religious minorities, cannot replace the pleasure that devout people have in following their calling.

In the church one can look upon the religious establishment, the organisations they run or look upon the millions that go there and pray for the welfare of themselves, their dear ones and the world.

What alternative do you offer to those people?

Have some tea.

[Abhishek]

I am 'the disillusioned RSSB devotee ' he mentioned in this post.. thanks once again for replying to my mail Brian..