Two examples of how religion is screwing up George Floyd protests

Here in the United States it's been great to see so many people protesting the murder of George Floyd at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer who kneeled on Floyd's neck for about nine minutes while he was saying, "I can't breathe."

Of course, this is just the latest person of color who has been killed by police for no good reason. Black Lives Matter protests have been going on years, but I'm hopeful our country finally is sending a clear message to police that the unjust killings have to stop. 

Many people of faith have been taking part in the protests, so I readily admit that religious groups can play a strong role in social justice movements. 

But then there's Donald Trump, who has an unerring ability to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

A New York Times story explains how Trump screwed up an opportunity today to bring our country together. Here's excerpts from "Trump Says Jobs Report Made It a 'Great Day' for George Floyd, Stepping on Message."

WASHINGTON — President Trump drew immediate criticism from Democrats on Friday for declaring that new unemployment numbers made it “a great day” for George Floyd, the black man whose death in the custody of white police officers has touched off protests and rioting across the country.

“Hopefully, George is looking down right now and saying this is a great thing that’s happening for our country,” Mr. Trump said. “This is a great day for him, it’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.”

After a week of unrest in the capital, Mr. Trump had gone to the Rose Garden to declare victory over a coronavirus pandemic that ravaged the economy, promoting the new numbers and planning to carry that message with him on a trip to Maine later in the day. But his jarring reference to Mr. Floyd overshadowed it.

Former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, was among those who immediately criticized the president’s remarks.

“George Floyd’s last words — ‘I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe’ — have echoed all across this nation and, quite frankly, around the world,” Mr. Biden said. “For the president to try to put any other words in the mouth of George Floyd I, frankly, think is despicable.”

Mr. Biden pointed out that the economic news that Mr. Trump was so intent on celebrating did not extend to black Americans, whose unemployment rate had actually risen to 16.8 percent from 16.7 percent.

“The fact that he did so on a day when black unemployment rose,” Mr. Biden added, “tells you everything you need to know about this man.”

Trump isn't religious. He just uses religion for his own political purposes now and then.

Still, how could any sensible person (which doesn't describe Trump) believe that someone who recently died in a horrible fashion, tearing him away from loved ones, would be "looking down" from heaven, or wherever, saying that a jobs report was a great day for himself?

Aside from being an incredibly stupid thing to say, it was horribly insensitive to George Floyd's family and friends. This just shows how narcissistic Trump is, being incapable of empathy and compassion for others.

Then there's a small story close to home, right here in Salem, Oregon, that has a more tenuous connection with religion -- but a connection nonetheless. Below is how I described it on Facebook posts today. This is a quote from the no such thing as secular story mentioned in the post which, naturally, I heartily disagree with:

“Said another way,” Vande Griend continues, “this class is about learning to practice in our real lives what Abraham Kuyper declared when he said, ‘There is not a square inch in the whole domain of our human existence over which Christ, who is Sovereign over all, does not cry, Mine!’”

SALEM MAN CALLS POLICE FOR WRITING BLACK LIVES MATTER MESSAGES IN CHALK ON PUBLIC SIDEWALKS. Only in Salem... hopefully. Amazing display of concern by Doug Vande Griend, who spelled out his name during the phone call to police that was captured on video.

Naturally I Googled this name. Unless there are two men with the same name in Salem, Vande Griend appears to be an attorney who writes about deep Christian notions such as "there is no such thing as secular." (subject of his third-year thesis in law school)

Interesting. I definitely consider there is such a thing as secular, being decidedly non-religious myself. But, hey, each to his own. Along that line, a Doug Vande Griend wrote a piece, "The Role of the Church in Society," that concluded with the passage below the line.

It seems to me that Vande Griend certainly was trying to "lord it over others" when he objected to peaceful writing of timely messages on a sidewalk. Likely the coming rain will wash the chalk away, so an "appropriate sense of humility" would have been to smile and applaud this display of civic activism.
-------------------
"People instinctively want their perspectives, whatever the topic, to prevail over those of others. But that want can be sinful. An appropriate sense of humility should restrain us from trying to 'lord it over others (Church Order, Art. 85). May we pray for that sense of humility."

Comments

[🤦‍♀️]

Unbelievable.

It could be that the only thing all the commenters on this blog agree on is that racism is hideous ignorance.

"Well, that's the one thing we've got"
—Breakfast at Tiffany’s

☯️🕉✡️💟☪️✝️☮️

[j]

"Of course, this is just the latest person of color who has been killed by police for no good reason."

There is no evidence that America's police are killing poc "for no good reason."
The police make literally 10 million arrests a year. In 2019, only 9 cases involving poc were controversial, and in every instance, it was found that the police's lives were being threatened by poc with guns. These are DOJ facts if you don't believe them. There is simply no evidence whatever that poc are being "hunted down" by white cops. In fact, there are most shootings by poc le officers than by white officers.

Why the public believes that many police officers are racist and wantonly beating and killing blacks "for no reason" is one of the most astounding and sickening things I've seen in my life.

I've worked in law enforcement. I've arrested people, sometimes wrestling them to the ground because they resisted arrest. There is no magic martial arts technique that police or anyone can use to easily control someone who is strong, very motivated not to go to jail again, and high on drugs. The 1 policeman in the Floyd case made a bad decision of how to use force. Floyd did not die because the officer choked him to death; he had heart disease and was high on fentanyl.

Floyd was a violent ex-con and he was resisting arrest. When someone resists arrest, they are putting everyone's lives in danger. If the police allow people to resist arrest, it put all officers' lives in danger when they make future arrests. In a civil society, there has to be law and order, and that requires laws that make resisting arrest a crime.

Unfortunately, in some poc communities, resisting arrest is all too common. Believe me, being police is hard enough without the public having the right to fight any attempt at arrest.

What is happening with the Floyd protests makes me beyond sad. The police do not deserve this opprobrium and calls for defunding. We are talking about one incident in the midst of 10 million, and yet even reasonable people are getting on board with the conclusion that the police are "racist."

Meanwhile, in poc communities, crime is rampant, murder is rampant, and not a word about that. People can claim BLM and white racism is a huge problem, and looting and gratuitous violence is a civil protest, but this to me is utter madness.

[Jen]

Its very depressing but I have realised that there will never be peace on this planet. Protest marches are not going to help.

"Minneapolis police union chief: George Floyd had a 'violent criminal history'

George Floyd was sentenced to five years in prison in 2009 for an assault and robbery committed two years earlier. He was convicted after pleading guilty to entering a pregnant woman's home and jabbing a gun in her stomach while searching for money and drugs, according to court documents.

Floyd, who was accompanied by five other men, never found any money or drugs, but took jewelry and the victim's cell phone. A neighbor who observed the robbery occur wrote down the license plate number of the perpetrators.

Even before that, he had been convicted of a range of charges from armed robbery to drug possession, the Daily Mail reported.”

https://rmx.news/article/article/minneapolis-police-union-chief-george-floyd-had-a-criminal-history

Just looked up the statistics in South Africa, the country my family and I escaped from…

Murder rates in South Africa have been steadily rising since 2011-12 according to official figures.
In that year, there were 15,554 recorded murders. By 2018-19, this figure had increased to 21,022.
That averages out to about 58 murders a day.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49673944#:~:text=Murder%20rates%20in%20South%20Africa,about%2058%20murders%20a%20day.

[nojustificationforthis]

https://youtu.be/lirHz93qJ50

[Dungeness]

@ Floyd did not die because the officer choked him to death; he had heart
@ disease and was high on fentanyl.

Yet with underlying heart disease and "high on fetanyl", he
gasped "I can't breathe" several times. As for police protocol,
he was compliant, prone, handcuffed, and manifestly not a
threat. There was no credible rationale to knee-pin his neck
to the ground and make it more difficult to breathe.

The Minnesota ME listed health issues but attributes his death
to "homicide".

[Statistics]

Statistics are interesting. Be careful how you look at the numbers.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/30/shrinking-gap-between-number-of-blacks-and-whites-in-prison/

Key takeaway—

“The racial and ethnic makeup of U.S. prisons continues to look substantially different from the demographics of the country as a whole. In 2017, blacks represented 12% of the U.S. adult population but 33% of the sentenced prison population. Whites accounted for 64% of adults but 30% of prisoners. And while Hispanics represented 16% of the adult population, they accounted for 23% of inmates.

Another way of considering racial and ethnic differences in the nation’s prison population is by looking at the imprisonment rate, which tallies the number of prisoners per 100,000 people. In 2017, there were 1,549 black prisoners for every 100,000 black adults – nearly six times the imprisonment rate for whites (272 per 100,000) and nearly double the rate for Hispanics (823 per 100,000).”

[Georgy Porgy]

Floyd died because of an overzealous cop with something like 11 previous reports against him , including numerous shootings. I don’t even know if it’s a race thing as much as it is about overzealous cop using inappropriate force, but I can definitely see why the black community is furious.

I have no doubt that there are situations when severe force is needed to take someone down , but not an unarmed elderly person not resisting who is saying I can’t breathe. And if they are not already trained to not put such citizens in chokeholds or kneel on their windpipes then they are even more incompetent than I previously thought.

South Africa’s apartheid regime was legal racism, it was despicable. There is and never will be any defense for it. Much of the violent crime that ensued abd exists to this day was a direct result of racial oppression. Guess what human beings don’t like being mistreated. There is a reason why people from other countries are weary of white South Africans who did a runner, especially those who feel nostalgic to that era.

[Spence Tepper]

Floyd is just the tip of the iceberg.

https://whdh.com/news/providence-firefighter-says-police-pulled-guns-on-him-outside-fire-station/?fbclid=IwAR3DzVwHnpb6U0tx-ElUWDgePmXTsQ9XxriZUQkKsFOc6QDCkKLrD092FdI

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/06/05/toxic-culture-police-departments-decried-after-57-buffalo-officers-resign-support?fbclid=IwAR2A32fbjbgJsD0RbYaHkcLU_8XNK4qIxKGQjeIDE2K-GT92o43djrnNrx4

https://m.facebook.com/momscleanairforce/photos/a.479929998732765/3131302470262158/?type=3&source=48

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10220971568132616&id=1043815732

These are well rehearsed guerrilla assaults on American citizens by a group of domestic terrorists who have found a home in police departments. They have one set of skills : disable and kill. They have one level of response, lethal force. They are targeting blacks, but no one is safe. We cannot rest until these sociopathic murderers are brought to justice and placed behind bars.

[Spence Tepper]

"I can't breathe...
" I can't breathe...

The first minute was control.
The second minute was encarceration.
The third minute was excessive use of force.
The fourth minute was Manslaughter
The fifth minute was Second degree murder.
And the sixth, seventh and eighth minutes were premeditated, first degree murder.

[Sonia]

"I can't breathe...
" I can't breathe...

The first minute was control.
The second minute was encarceration.
The third minute was excessive use of force.
The fourth minute was Manslaughter
The fifth minute was Second degree murder.
And the sixth, seventh and eighth minutes were premeditated, first degree murder.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | June 07, 2020 at 09:55 AM

Well said. 👌

[j]

Statistics are Interesting: "Another way of considering racial and ethnic differences in the nation’s prison population is by looking at the imprisonment rate, which tallies the number of prisoners per 100,000 people. In 2017, there were 1,549 black prisoners for every 100,000 black adults – nearly six times the imprisonment rate for whites (272 per 100,000) and nearly double the rate for Hispanics (823 per 100,000).”

Given that blacks are supposedly targets of white racism, those statistics would seem to strongly imply that American law enforcement, from the beat cops to the judges, are engaged in a conspiracy to put blacks in prison.

But wait. Asian Americans have also been historically targeted for white racism. Prevented from entering the country, put in internment camps, and so culturally excluded that outside of Bruce Lee,the only role model young Asians had as late as the 1980s was Long Duck Dong of the movie Sixteen Candles. With all that prejudice and lack of white privilege, you'd think our prisons would have lots of Asian Americans in them. Yet they make up only 1% (blacks 38%).

[j]

@spencer. More on the story of Terrell Paci, the fireman who was "racially profiled." The exchange with police occurred after a 9 p.m. curfew that had been enacted in the aftermath of violent confrontations between police and vandals who targeted a downtown mall two nights earlier.

The police were searching for two suspects who held up an individual by gunpoint and knifepoint, and the car Paci and his friend were sitting in matched the description of the vehicle in which the suspects fled.

Given that the suspects for the mall violence were black, and the two suspects were black, and the firefighter was out after curfew, and his car matched the description of their vehicle, would you like the police to have simply ignored Paci? When approaching a likely suspect who may be armed and extremely dangerous, are the police out of control racists for having their guns drawn?

Most people have never worked in law enforcement and have naive ideas about how it actually works outside of TV shows.

[Statistics]

@j

Take a look at the IMPRISONMENT RATE for Hispanics: “(823 per 100,000).”

Another way of considering racial and ethnic differences in the nation’s prison population is by looking at the imprisonment rate, which tallies the number of prisoners per 100,000 people. In 2017, there were 1,549 black prisoners for every 100,000 black adults – nearly six times the imprisonment rate for whites (272 per 100,000) and nearly double the rate for Hispanics (823 per 100,000).”

Posted by: Statistics | June 06, 2020 at 10:49 PM

[Jen]

Discussion about Minneapolis Police Department training procedure to do with neck restraints.

The Arrest and Death of George Floyd: An Ex-Cop's View

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#category/social/FMfcgxwHNgkTkpzRzCLZlDmvmxBgdLzp

[Spence Tepper]

J
Please read the article about fireman paci, who was in uniform at the time.

"The officer on the driver’s side started screaming ‘Where’s the gun, is there a gun’ and I was like ‘I’m a firefighter. I’m PFD, I’m one of you. I’m a firefighter,'” Paci recalled at a police brutality protest.

Paci said officers demanded to search the car even after confirming he was a firefighter and not allowed to carry a gun on duty, but then only searched the area where he was sitting.

“[The officer] then proceeds to continue on to search the back. He then stated due to the amount of stuff that’s in the back, he doesn’t want to make a fuss and inconvenience us with our time,” Paci recalled.

"Providence firefighters posted to Facebook that they stand with Paci.

“This situation makes clear that even in uniform – a young black man is not immune from the impact of systemic, institutional racism,” the firefighters’ statement said in part. “While we value our working relationship with the Providence Police, and know there are many officers who are working to change police culture, this incident proves that there is more work to be done.”

As far as trying to compare treatment of Blacks with Asians these statistics do not justify racial profiling or the unwarranted, excessive and often lethal use of force that amounts to systemic and racially motivated murder.

You are mistaken in your attempt to justify brutality by police based on population statistics. Each individual must be afforded all their rights. Race is not de facto probable cause. If you have actual training in law inforcement may I humbly suggest you get a refresher course?

[Statsprofessor]

Statistics are an angled game. Depends much
In how you interpret them.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

[j]

"J Please read the article about fireman paci, who was in uniform at the time."

There's no way to see what someone is wearing in their car, unless you have x-ray vision. And searching through someone's trunk is hardly a civil rights crime.

You quoted the Providence Firefighter's Union president, which in this age of organizational virtual signaling means nothing. You have no idea if he was even apprised of the facts of the incident beyond which what Paci told him.

"As far as trying to compare treatment of Blacks with Asians these statistics do not justify racial profiling or the unwarranted"

Unwarranted? Are you saying that America's Asians commit as a many thefts and violent crimes as do America's black citizens?

"excessive and often lethal use of force that amounts to systemic and racially motivated murder."

There's no evidence to support your statement. As I pointed out, the statistics show that less than a dozen lethal incidents of apparently "racist" police action occurred in 2019, and in all but one case it was clear the officers were responding to lethal threats and protecting their and others lives.

"You are mistaken in your attempt to justify brutality by police based on population statistics."

Again, Spencer, you seem to be very naive about how law enforcement actually works. I never condoned "brutality" against anyone. But the fact remains that force often needs to be used, especially when suspects resist arrest. The police don't have magic powers or Star Trek stun phasers to make criminals docile.

"Race is not de facto probable cause." Descriptions of likely suspects are very much accepted as legal legit probable cause, and Paci fits the description. What is your idea, Spencer? Is is that racists white cops have nothing better to do than spend all day arresting blacks whom they know are innocent?

My father was in all appearance whiter than white, and how told me one day how he was pulled over by a grim cop for no apparently no reason. After the cop checked his ID, he humbly asked "Officer, can I ask why you pulled me over"? The cop just said, "let's just say we're on the ball over here." I need not even say that my dad didn't put up a fuss or object to being "profiled."

If I were Paci, I'd side with the officers after they'd told me about how I fit their description and the violence of the other day.

If I were someone who says that the police are coming to get us all, I'd post a notice on Facebook with my address, telling the world that I abhor the police, want them disbanded, will not call on them because of my white priv, and am keeping my door unlocked. Time to end the hypocrisy of condemning the police while depending on them to protect us.

[Spence Tepper]

J
Paci was in his fire fighter's uniform. He was parked outside the fire station. He didn't match the description. Yet even after identifying that he was in uniform, just outside the fire station, the police insisted he exit the car. At gunpoint. The police then proceeded to search the car for a weapon, disregarding Paci's uniform, his statement that on duty firemen don't carry guns, and the fact that they were parked right outside the fire station. They searched his side of the car only. Not his white friend's side.

The police pulled a gun on him, without provocation, and held it on him when they ordered him out of the car, even after seeing he was in uniform. They insisted on searching his side of the car for a weapon even after they saw
he was in uniform.

There was no probable cause to trigger threat of lethal force, nor for their search. And these are the grounds for legal action. And why the providence police will pay a price for racism.

You may ignore racism, but this is far worse. Domestic terrorism. And while police are targeting blacks, as these cases are coming to light, so is the lethal pathology of some very bad cops. And that isn't limited to targeting blacks.

https://youtu.be/FoFFUlAWr50

[Jen]

The video of cops suspended after 75 year old man is pushed to the ground. You think this is troubling? That stupid old idiot should not have got in front of the police and of course the policeman pushed him out of the way. So he fell over. He deserved it. People are insane nowadays. Have no idea what real violence is about.

This is hell on earth...

Xenophobic violence hits South Africa | DW News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbhKrcBNwJo

[Statsprof]

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/data-show-deaths-from-police-violence-disproportionately-affect-people-of-color

[Spence Tepper]

Jen
The police did not need to knock this old man over. They could have asked him to move and when he didn't respond, held his wrist and shoulder and walked him aside.

People die falling backwards on concrete. To knock someone over onto concrete is extremely dangerous. To Walk by casually without immediately stopping to attend to him is not only callous, it is sociopathic. Normally, when an old person falls everyone around rushes in to help.

Police are supposed to help.

We live in interesting times where police brutality has become acceptable, but most certainly worthy of protest.