« RSSB guru sounded like a heretic in 2006 | Main | No false "facts" and other commenting policies »

June 19, 2020

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Could be a 2-term president despite everything, then what?

I find it quite bizarre how ppl are so obsessed with The Donald. I’m not talking about his supporters either. It’s the anti-trumps and the papers that analyze and hold onto his every word. Trump has a point which is that he basically sells news and they can’t get enough of him.

I’m all for BLM and equality, but I don’t think trump is a kkk wizard despite his ego and other grab’m failings.

And I’m not sure how equating Trumpy to a guru/cult makes any sense whatsoever but hey sense ain’t stopped you so far.

It's apparently totally OK for protestors and rioters to congregate without Fauci's Rules. Or at least not a word is said about that.

But if the president holds a rally, that's an assault on scientific wisdom?

Somehow religion has something to do with this topic, though how is never explained. I think it comes down to what we want to do is rational, good and scientific, but what you want the rest what to do is "religious" and evil.

Anyway, science fans here are some facts scientific and otherwise:

1) states that locked down are doing no worse than states that did not. All the ornate rules regarding magic masks and the shutting down businesses don't seem to be producing any results, though it will surely go merrily along.

2) The average age of virus deaths is 80. No children have died from it (though the schools are still closed down -- a frightful assault on children's development, but again, not a word about that). The hospitals are not and have never been overwhelmed as Fauci told us they'd be. Overall, this virus is proving to be not much more lethal than a bad flu season.

3) It's not the state's business to curtail the public's Constitutional freedoms. True, the state should have the power to quarantine the sick, eg someone like Typhoid Mary. But the state isn't supposed to have the power to quarantine THE ENTIRE POPULATION because someone somewhere might get sick. At the very least, the state should have a plan in place for ending the wholesale quarantine. The state has no such plan and refuses to share what "scientific" parameters it's looking at to justify its unconstitutional abridgments of our freedoms.

4) We are most definitely seeing the rise of a cult in American society, one that's calling for the ending of our police forces, one that's destroying art and banning books, one that's murdered and maimed countless people, one that wants to enforce a "bloodguilt" policy for ongoing social policy, one that bullies everyone who doesn't kowtow to their baseless charges of "systemic racism,", one that wants to empty the prisons, one that wants the taxpayers to pay every black person a reparations salary for life. The corporations are cheering this on for one reason -- they are making money from it (partly because small businesses are being crushed) and they are cowards who are scared to death to say anything against what the radical mob is preaching.

5) So much outrage over a president holding up a bible? Over holding a voluntary rally? I get it how some people don't care for the president's personality, but they are confusing patriotic fervor and genuine concern for Constitutional rights with mindless religion and cultism. I'm far more worried about the very real breakdown of our society via mob rule.

Cult deprogrammer writes that Trump is a cult leader

https://www.amazon.com/Cult-Trump-Leading-Explains-President/dp/1982127333

j, you are incorrect about some important facts. Here's some of them.

(1) Black Lives Matter protests haven't led to more COVID-19 cases. There's a big difference between most people wearing masks outdoors at a protest and a Trump rally where, almost certainly, many fewer people will be wearing masks indoors.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/06/19/so-far-george-floyd-protests-not-behind-surges-coronavirus/3226033001/

(2) Children have died from COVID-19.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/kawasaki-disease-up-to-5-ny-children-dead-85-sickened-by-rare-covid-related-illness/2411571/

(3) Masks are an effective way to prevent COVID-19. Red (conservative) states where people are likely to follow Trump's bad advice not to wear a mask are experiencing a higher rate of infections than blue (liberal) staes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/17/coronavirus-has-come-trump-country/

(4) Stay at home orders have saved millions of lives around the world, included large numbers in the United States.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/09/872711012/coronavirus-lockdowns-saved-millions-of-lives-journal-nature-reports

(5) COVID-19 is much worse than the flu. For one thing, it is ten times more deadly and lasts considerably longer.

https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/how-covid-19-is-different-and-worse-than-the-flu

"Cult deprogrammer writes that Trump is a cult leader"

By Hassan's definition, every elected president is likewise a "cult leader."

This points to the real cause of social division in America today: the average citizen has little to no concept of American civics. They view Trump as if he somehow usurped the presidency through voter fraud, collusion with foreign governments, or "lies."

But Trump was in fact fairly elected by our democratic system. A few thousand dollars spent by foreign nationals on Facebook ads didn't change the election results. It turns out there was no evidence of Russian collusion, despite the daily trumpeting by the "real media" that there was.

Our democratic system is founded on a basic human truth: people will disagree over the course of this country and who our elected leaders should be. But instead of accepting that some elections will sometimes produce leaders whom we dislike, a mass movement has started that promotes the false idea that what this president does is "tyranny" and "fascism" simply because we don't like it.

In my view, President Obama was a lousy president. I thought he was a fake poseur long before he was elected, and I still have that view today. However, during his 8 years in office, I never dreamed to be so bold as to call Obama unfit for office or demand his impeachment. That's because I recognized that Obama was duly elected by our system, and my respect for that system goes above whatever opinions I have for shit presidents like Obama and Bush.

I also never dreamed of portraying everyone who voted for Obama and Bush as brainwashed religious nuts under the spell of a cult leader. Again, this is because I recognize that people can think differently from me and have good intentions.

It seems our society is losing the ability to respect disagreement. We are losing it to the point where we feel that any means are justified to take down an elected leader we don't happen to like. We're drifting more and more to a rejection of American civics and an acceptance of mob rule. This isn't theory -- we're seeing segments of the public go on violent sprees, and companies bowing in fear to whatever activists demand of them in respect to giving them money and firing anyone who disagrees with the activist's bloodguilt platform.

The rule of the mob vs. the legal rule of a duly elected leader? I know which I prefer.

"But instead of accepting that some elections will sometimes produce leaders whom we dislike, a mass movement has started that promotes the false idea that what this president does is "tyranny" and "fascism" simply because we don't like it."

Oh, please. The right never missed an opportunity to call Obama a tyrant and a dictator...
https://newrepublic.com/article/120347/obama-anything-president-tyrant-dictator-and-king
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/executive-order-tyranny-obama-plans-to-rule-america-with-pen-phone
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/conservative-obama-we-have-been-living-under-dictatorial-tyrant-last-8

"We are losing it to the point where we feel that any means are justified to take down an elected leader we don't happen to like."

Trump himself led a charge to delegitimize Obama's presidency by any means, amplifying the birther conspiracy...
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther.html

I wouldn't trust Trump with my daughter or my sister
I wouldn't trust Trump with my money (he will squirrel away from me somehow)
I wouldn't trust Trump to deal with dictators (see how "successful" he was with North Korea?)
I wouldn't trust Trump to be honest playing golf
I wouldn't trust Trump to think beyond himself and focus on others.
I wouldn't trust Trump to stop and think before he is on twitter.
I wouldn't trust Trump to be a real leader and stop name calling.
I wouldn't trust Trump in any of his so-called investigations, particularly on his exaggerated claims about
investigating Obama's birthplace.
I wouldn't trust Trump to release his taxes

I could go on and on.

But who cares about all that. He should be our "leader", our "president."

Geez, this planet is nuts.

"j" made some good points in both of his posts above. I agree.

He said: It seems our society is losing the ability to respect disagreement.

In the absence of a spiritual/philosophical/values foundation, which is rapidly disappearing in this country, it is easy for a political belief system to replace it as "gospel". Once it is believed Trump is evil, his evil will be seen everywhere by all true believers. The tinted glasses are on. It is fanaticism.

The Master (in RSSB religion) can do no wrong.

Trump, in the cult of "Never Trump" can do no right.

One has replaced the other.


j, you are incorrect about some important facts. Here's some of them.
Black Lives Matter protests haven't led to more COVID-19 cases."

I never claimed protests lead to spreading the Wuhan virus. I claimed just the opposite when I said that states that didn't lockdown are doing no worse than states that did lockdown. In other words, the lack of outbreaks from social gatherings, be they of political rallies or looters, shows that our science experts are wrong about the fetish for masks. The bizarre thing is that the more evident this is, the more the most liberal politicians enforce mask-wearing, ie the esteemed Mayor of Los Angeles.

(2) Children have died from COVID-19.

Actually, the CDC won't commit to saying that they know there's a link between the virus and other diseases. Speculation about possible cures is totally unacceptable, but speculation about children dying is somehow OK?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/children/mis-c.html

In any case, let's say 5 children did die strictly because the got the China virus. Does that mean the end of schools forever? That seems to be the thinking and it's absurd. No school is causing genuine problems for children, for families. It's all based on 5 children who may have died, and the doctors aren't even certain about the cause of death?

(3) Masks are an effective way to prevent COVID-19. Red (conservative) states where people are likely to follow Trump's bad advice not to wear a mask are experiencing a higher rate of infections than blue (liberal) states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/17/coronavirus-has-come-trump-country/

What else would the Bezos paper say? But actually, the stats show no such correlation between red states and more Wuhan flu, and therefore there can be no conclusions drawn with causation.

Again, states that did not lockdown are doing no better than states that did.
https://www.northsidesun.com/columns/states-did-not-lock-down-fared-better-neighbors#sthash.lzhMsUSA.dpbs

People who have medical conditions or who are elderly should be all means protect themselves by wearing masks and staying home. But this policy of having the entire population quarantine themselves is ludicrous, shows no worthwhile effect, and is causing the end of thousands of small business, mental and physical health problems, and a huge uptick in suicides. It also seems to be a factor is the cause of this epidemic of urban riots. Indeed, citizen Floyd was turned to crime because he was unemployed due to the lockdown.
\
This policy of mass quarantine is causing more harm than it's preventing.

(4) "Stay at home orders have saved millions of lives around the world, included large numbers in the United States."

Again, this can't be true, since it's been established that states that did not lockdown are doing on better than states that did. Lockdowns are doing far more harm than good.

(5) "COVID-19 is much worse than the flu. For one thing, it is ten times more deadly and lasts considerably longer."

Define "much worse." There is significant doubt from medical professionals about how death statistics are being recorded re who is really "dying" from Wuhan virus. There's no doubt that many have died, and the average age is 80. Many of them were in nursing homes -- this is where 99% of the attention should have been placed. These are the people who need to be in a lockdown of some kind. But the entire population? I don't have a better word for it than absurd.

And who really believes in the mask theory of medical protection? Is it just Trump voters who are flouting it? What about all those progressives who beat the Trump supporters to engage in mass public protests? Where were their masks and social distancing? Since as you point out there was no uptick in illness from their protests, maybe they intuitively knew what is obvious -- this virus scare is largely BS.

"Oh, please. The right never missed an opportunity to call Obama a tyrant and a dictator..."

I'm saying that I didn't call Obama any of those things. But you're right that some on the right have played that game. I recall Rush Limbaugh's stupid "America held hostage" meme, though I don't recall him or Fox news invoking impeachment and screaming that he should resign. I don't recall marches in the street demanding that Obama resign.

Strong criticism was going on full steam back when Clinton was president. But what we've seen in the last 3 years is an new kind of opposition, and an over the top denial of the very legitimacy of the office of president. This is something new, or at least it hasn't happened in American politics since perhaps Abe Lincoln's day. What's being said about Trump by the media and the democrats is that he has no legitimate authority as president and therefore must be removed from office - not because of what he has said or done, but because of who he is. It's been going on practically since he took office. This isn't civil opposition, it's a denial of American civics and the authority of the Constitution. It's how the people act in banana republics.

Ah, Gore Vidal was write to call it "The United States of Amnesia."

How quickly we forget what Trump did with Obama about his birthplace and his right to be President, calling into question the very fact Obama was born in Hawaii. But Trump never lets facts interfere with his conspiracy-mongering.

And, as usual, Trump was wrong.

Ah, Trump cannot be civil even to the very people he claimed were going to be the best and brightest in
his cabinet. Instead he calls them all sorts of names, since they don't bow down to his unending narcissism.
The very leader of the free world doesn't know how to be civil himself. Go look at how many insults he has
spewed forth. It is Trump's incivility, his inability to take criticism, and his all over the map policies that has caused this ruckus. Banana republic? Trump isn't a leader. He is man constantly worrying about how much
credit he should get, or how big his crowds are, or how is ratings are.

He is completely unfit for the office. That is why he is so strongly opposed.

Simply put, he could have easily risen to the occasion and shown real leadership, shown skill in dealing with his critics ("there are no bad questions, just bad answers.").

Sorry, the buck starts and stops with Trump.

Yes, people are right to be irritated by this self-centered egotist who has been played by North Korea, played by the Chinese, played by the Russians, and all along claiming he is making America great again.

Sure. Bring back Nixon. He at least knew how to resign.

J
Just to add some factual information to this discussion about Covid.

This year, Covid 19 is the number one killer among several major causes of death in the world, including hunger and malaria, war, drugs, flu, fire, terror, poisoning, meningitis, etc.. Covid deaths top the list.

Watch the chart time series.

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2634167/?fbclid=IwAR0cyvK1jec5r4bzOpscM31RZ2ATdhGI_BZ3bnERHBEfGL_j41q2EkIAypw

@ And who really believes in the mask theory of medical protection?

You're partially correct about the potential protection of masks.
However, whatever its degree of efficacy, however small, it's a
best practice, along with distancing and frequent hand washing:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

And, call me crazy, but I suspect mask haters probably aren't that
keen on distancing or hand washing protocols either.


Obama by far the best most capable president that country ever had. By a quantum leap - no one to remotely touch him. Shit the rest of the world should be so lucky to have this guy in charge for another 100 years.

Dubya was thicker than two short planks, senior was forgettable, Regan was an actor, Clinton did not have sexual relations with that women (probably the next best after kennedy), trump’s ego has landed, Johnson another redneck, Carter not bad but forgettable also, and then of course tricky dicky.


"But what we've seen in the last 3 years is an new kind of opposition, and an over the top denial of the very legitimacy of the office of president. This is something new, or at least it hasn't happened in American politics since perhaps Abe Lincoln's day."

j,

How do Republicans say Trump and Lincoln in the same breath? Pranayama? Lincoln has been spinning so hard and fast in his tomb that they had to pump in oxygen and replace the tachometer.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.