Greatest comment about the RSSB guru ever. Behold!

l am awestruck. I bow down before the glory. I marvel at every inspired word. No, I'm not talking about God or a holy book. I'm extolling a comment "j" left today on a recent blog post.

Here it is. (UPDATE: it seemed obvious that this comment is fictional, but in case anyone thinks it is real, it was made up -- though there is considerable truth in the fictional exchange.)

The guru being referred to is the leader of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), a religious organization based in India that I belonged to for 35 years until I deconverted. The comment is absolutely right-on as regards some of the contradictions and absurdities in the RSSB teachings.

It should appeal to anyone, though naturally it will resonate most with those who are familiar with those teachings.

If you aren't, know that shabd refers to a supposed divine power/energy that manifests as sound and light -- a sort of universal mystical consciousness. Charan Singh was the RSSB guru prior to the current guru, Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

Questioner: Are you saying you have actual powers that make you the most evolved spiritual person in the world? And that only you can guide me to the True God?

RSSB Guru: No, the real guru is the shabd.

Questioner: Then who are you? What is your role?

RSSB Guru: I am merely doing the work that my guru dumped on me.

Questioner: I feel that your answer begs the question. Do you have actual powers of a guru or not?

RSSB Guru: Everyone who wants to find God needs a Spiritual Master to guide them on the Path.

Questioner: Okay, well, are you saying you're such a Spiritual Master?

RSSB Guru: The real spiritual master is the shabd. People who wish to find God need to take initiation from a competent Spiritual Master.

Questioner: So you're saying that if I take this initiation from you, you'll guide me on the inner planes and back to God?

RSSB Guru: Not necessarily. First of all, only marked souls are eligible for initiation. If you're not a marked soul whose karma it is to be initiated, I can not accept you.

Questioner: You're saying you have the spiritual powers to determine who is favored by God to return to God?

RSSB Guru: I do not say that. It is everyone's karma as to whether they are fit to be initiated. Karma is everything.

Questioner: Let me try another question. Are you saying that initiation by you is necessary to return to God?

RSSB Guru: RSSB teaches that all religions teach the very same spiritual truths. I am claiming nothing special. In fact, you'll see spiritual quotes on the RSSB website from Mother Teresa and Iggy Pop. And notice the statue of the Buddha right behind me. We are merely a philosophical organization, not a religion.

Questioner: I see. Then which sant mat guru today is your spiritual equal? Rajinder Singh perhaps?

RSSB Guru: Please do not ask me to give my opinion on any mystics or their teachings.

Questioner: Huh? I thought you just said that all religions are the same, and that "karma" (our efforts) are everything in the journey back to God.

RSSB Guru: No, the teachings of Sant Mat require that one be initiated by a genuine guru.

Questioner: OK then, who is a genuine guru? Can you name one?

RSSB Guru: Yes, Charan Singh ji Maharaj.

Questioner: OK fine. But can you name any genuine gurus outside of your own line of spiritual masters?

RSSB Guru: All saints and mystics teach the same spiritual truths.

Questioner: Fine, then just name one who you'd certify as being as authentic as yourself.

RSSB Guru: You see, we must all make our own spiritual search to choose an authentic guru.

Questioner: But doesn't the RSSB website strongly imply that you are one of these authentic gurus?

RSSB Guru: I am merely the leader of the RSSB organization, and it is not a role of my own choosing. RSSB is a philosophical organization, not a religion. I make no claims for myself.

Questioner: But by accepting the role of Perfect Master, aren't you implicitly making the public claim that you indeed are a Perfect Master?

RSSB Guru: You see, the real Master is the shabd.

Questioner: OK. How about teaching me this technique of getting the shabd?

RSSB Guru: Oh, I could teach the mere technique, but real contact with the shabd requires initiation from a Perfect Master, otherwise the special mantras will have no power whatsoever.

Questioner: Alright, fine, I'll take this initiation then. Will you initiate me now?

RSSB Guru: Now (much laughter). No, you need to get sponsored by an RSSB member and follow 3 vows for a year. Then, maybe I'll initiate you once the paperwork is complete. Bear in mind that once you receive initiation you must accept me as your spiritual master -- a "Godman" in fact -- for the rest of your life.

Questioner: Excuse me reverend sir, but I don't think so.

RSSB Guru: Too bad for you then. There is no other way back to God.

Questioner: But I thought you just said? Nevermind.

Gurinder Singh Dhillon, current RSSB guru

Comments

[Georgy Porgy]

Well I think this exchange is closer to the truth than has hitherto been described on this website, and I would certainly listen to I’d input, but I don’t necessarily agree with some of it.

I presume the exchange has been hammed up a bit to suit the owner of this blog which is a shame if it is the case, because I thought J was the kind of guy to speak his mind, rather than try such up to the powers that be. But I don’t mind it, it’s not rude or that inflammatory, and j hasn’t called the guru an asshole - so let us be thankful to the good god above for small mercies.

To me the message is more simple:

1) The guru is a spiritual guide, not gihf or or a god. We believe he is a spiritual adept. If you don’t, that’s fine, go elsewhere. Its entirely voluntary if you want to join and you are free to leave.

2) If are you not interested in spirituality or are atheist or don’t believe in gurus, or people that may be adepts in spirituality, not a problem, Go elsewhere. Its entirely voluntary if you want to join and you are free to leave.

3. Rssb is not the only path and the guru is not the only master. It is for you to decide which adept appeals to you. We believe that true adepts or saints are very rare and that you need to use your own sense as to who is an adept or not. We think GSD is such a rare mystic. If you don’t, not a problem, Go elsewhere. Its entirely voluntary if you want to join and you are free to leave.

4. If you do voluntary decide to follow rssb and the master, we have a few rules that we would ask you to obey. If you don’t want to obey the rules, not a problem, but then please don’t join.

What is so Gdam difficult to understand?

[Jesse]

"To me the message is more simple:"

There is no "to me." It's the same for everyone but you're choosing to ignore the circular "reasoning" and contradictions in RSSB.

"What is so Gdam difficult to understand?"

Why people join really dumb cults. That's the hard part to understand.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Georgy this q and a comment is completely made up and did not happen.

[Dungeness]

@Then which sant mat guru today is your spiritual equal? Rajinder Singh
@ perhaps? ... Huh? I thought you just said that all religions are the same,
@ and that "karma" (our efforts) are everything in the journey back to
@ God.

Oh, you sly dog, you. Suddenly you're conflating religion with
mysticism and want GSD's scorecard on Rajinder Singh too.
Did you hope to elicit a pejorative assessment from GSD
about Rajinder's status? Or were you hoping for some kind of
weirdo fatalism, eg, "In the end, it's all karma, man!"

@ Alright, fine, I'll take this initiation then. Will you initiate me now?

Don't you hear that roar of evil laughter? After all, you'd be
busy with a devil's bargain. Round up sponsors, check. Take
vows, check. , Sign over "soul" to "God-man", check. For a
bloody whole year... how cultish. Totally unreasonable!

I agree with Georgy. There's no insidious entrapment here. If
expectations are unmet, a mystic would drop the path and
look for a more promising one. They'd encourage others to
do so if that's their choice. Mystics reject blind faith too.

@ Too bad for you then. There is no other way back to God.

The problem with trying to channel a mystic's words is that
you can't capture their essence. You simply stumble over
the attempt. No mystic ever says "there is no other way back
to God". That's a cult. What he says is "any path that asks you
look for truth inside yourself -not outside- is the correct one."

[Sonia]

RSSB and spirituality

🤮

[Other Jen]

What an absolutely beautiful picture by the way. ❤️❤️❤️

[OshoRobbins]

J writes a fictional comment.

GP, mistaking it to be real, proceeds to show the truth of it.

but it's pure fiction.

it never happened.

just shows you can fool some of the people all of the time. easy. just write anything.

a bit like this work of fiction I created a while back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Kd_EAogCo&t=265s
about a fictional meeting with sat purush and he claims there is no god (5:40 in the video)
so now God too has become an atheist. wrap your mind around that if you want to go mad.

reminds me of Alice when she meets the mad hatter and says "I don't want to go where mad people are" and is told "you cant avoid that - we're all mad here"

I agree with Alice in wonderland - "we're all mad here"

here's Osho - being asked for clarity - he confuses us more and says that is his purpose

far out.

[OshoRobbins]

forgot to paste the link of the osho video I quoted

here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggTJCCxFss

[Jesse]

"Mystic. Mysticism mystical? Mystified."

[Sonia]

If you’re not an initiate don’t speak for RSSB. If you are an ex-er then say what you want. At least you’re speaking from experience not just some rose colored glasses view of what you believe to be the ideal.

And please don’t use a bunch of British/Irish/Australian slang in all of your comments while claiming to be an American. Also, leave out the u in color and honor if you truly want to be American.

Asshole.

[Sonia]

Wow, Brian, nice picture of GSD. It’s like you’re trying to make him look like a Saint.

Such a lovely picture. Probably his best one yet. Truly captures a benevolent soul. A picture is worth a thousand words. And words are cheap.

[Deepak Sanotra]

@Sonia
Thanks for your comments.
I believe you are a big admirer of RSSB. My DAD is a preacher of SOS which is Run by Sant Rajender Singh. I believe both the deras living masters provide the same mantras for meditation. i came across with many disciples of RSSB, those always of belief that their master is bigger than SOS and they have more followers all over the world then SOS. They always have superiority complex. I dont know if RSSB guru teaches such things to his sangat. Earlier you said in one of comments word - Asshole. Is this acceptable in Spiritual world??

[OshoRobbins]

To me the message is more simple:

1) The guru is a spiritual guide, not gihf or or a god. We believe he is a spiritual adept. If you don’t, that’s fine, go elsewhere. Its entirely voluntary if you want to join and you are free to leave.

2) If are you not interested in spirituality or are atheist or don’t believe in gurus, or people that may be adepts in spirituality, not a problem, Go elsewhere. Its entirely voluntary if you want to join and you are free to leave.

3. Rssb is not the only path and the guru is not the only master. It is for you to decide which adept appeals to you. We believe that true adepts or saints are very rare and that you need to use your own sense as to who is an adept or not. We think GSD is such a rare mystic. If you don’t, not a problem, Go elsewhere. Its entirely voluntary if you want to join and you are free to leave.

4. If you do voluntary decide to follow rssb and the master, we have a few rules that we would ask you to obey. If you don’t want to obey the rules, not a problem, but then please don’t join.

What is so Gdam difficult to understand?
- Georgy Porgy believer extraordinaire

What's with the constant reference to "Voluntary" ?

it's like your mantra - all four of your numbered points state "Voluntary"

and it's pointless to use the word.

What else could it be?
a forced discipleship?
every person does what they do voluntarily
unless they are at gunpoint or their son has been kidnapped by a gang.

otherwise - it's always voluntary - don't need to say the word.

and who is they "we" as in "we believe he is ...."
is this the "Royal we" (you and your army of like minded persons)
or do you mean YOU - one person

you write
"It is for you to decide which adept appeals to you."

but they say you are unable to judge. so now you are screwed.
if you pick the wrong one - you have wasted your whole life.

and what criteria will you use?
will you go by a FEELING?

or Dr Johnsons advice "Is he a perfect man first"
if you go by this - you have to get to know him better before you can decide.
Ask the Singh Brothers and they will tell you their experience.

and you don't have any.

but...
He says "the master is not perfect" - the word is complete or "Whole"

actually I agree with him on that one because what does 'Perfect" mean anyway?

how will you decide on what is "perfect"

nothing is ever perfect - perfection is a myth and a perception only.

so in finishing - what is so Goddamn difficult to understand is that you took a fictional piece of art and proceeded to prove that the statements are true.

[OshoRobbins]

@Deepak Sanotra

are you in the UK or elsewhere

I have been to the Birmingham centre
was initiated by Darshan Singh in 1981

I was very close to Darshan at the time, but never impressed with Rajindar

No Beas guru does not teach superiority
no guru says use works like "Asshole" except maybe Osho

but we do plenty of things that are not authorised by the guru
like the incident that happened to me in Haynes at last Bhandara

you guys have the daily diary but beas doesnt

[Ron Krumpos]

I loved that exchange. It reminds me of what a Sufi once said:
“For him who has perception, a mere sign is enough. For him who does not really heed, a thousand explanations are not enough.” Haji Bektash [Vali]

[Spence Tepper]

The path within is real. These are real places you can experience within. Shabd, inner sound that pulls you up into the inner sky, inner light. These are real experiences.

And there is incredible bliss along the way. And great insight.

Throughout the ages people have spoken about the benefits of contemplation, meditation, prayer and worship of the Spirit. So if in your practice of prayer, or submission to a higher power, or simple contemplation of a thought, your breath, the air within and around you, you have some interesting experiences naturally you might be drawn to understand and develop them better. Or you might have such experiences under different conditions.

And there are true Saints in most cultures who are well versed in developing this capacity to take this inner journey within themselves, and most happy to share what they have learned with their personal friends. These True Saints are believers. They value faith. They have no formal initiation, publish no books, hold no meetings, have no organization, hold no titles. They are not introducing a new religion, don't advocate an old one, and generally refuse to pontificate about God except to confirm that He/She/It exists for them. He is real for them. They share with their friends one - to - one what they have experienced. They sell nothing, they take nothing: no money, services, or offerings, gifts of any kind, nothing material changes hands in any way connected to their spiritually. They earn their own modest wages, enough to take responsibility for themselves. In many cases they may help you out materially out of their own limited resources. And their inner practice of worshipping the divinity within is their singular love and focus. Their work is usually connected in some way with public service. You meet them by chance. They are legitimitely and truly the nicest people you will ever meet. That's your clue to get to know them better. But it is unlikely they will go to the golf course with you. It is more likely you will find them helping in the soup kitchen with family members.

But all of those man - made things of formal teachings, religions, philosophies, and definitions, things connected with business and money, just get in the way of our direct experience of these realms and of the divine within ourselves. These are distractions.

Then there are those who have had no such experiences. But they are intrigued by those organizations, books and formal Gurus who write and speak of such things. These Gurus generally teach a method of meditation that requires idolatry. Worshipping the Guru as God in Human Form. That's the philosophy they teach. It's built into the method of meditation, and all the spiritual poetry they write of. And true devotion is a fine method of concentration and withdrawal of the consciousness from the body to that quiet place within, the doorway to the inner journey.

For those who have had such experiences and have been able to traverse even part of this inner path there is no question about it that goes unanswered for more than a day, because their meditation shows them the answers.

For those who have not had such experiences they have a tougher, longer road to have that level of concentration and even the understanding and interest in the method to gain it. They have to believe and hold faith while they practice, and learn to recognize actual progress.

It is appropriate for each person to question every day. That drives effort to find answers at every level. Wherever you are, that is legitimate and worthy of respect. You gain nothing praising the guru who is attributed to be the Master while denigrating the seeker as inexperienced, foolish or mistaken. That isn't so. Their experience, their trials, their frustrations, are far more important and of acute interest to the True Saints. They are legitimate and worthy of respect and all attention.

And there are flawed teachers handing out real personal truths about this path. Those are the ones in organisations with titles.

And along the way as we practice and user our best judgment we discover a truth and leave behind a misunderstanding.

That's very healthy.

It is not the case that no one has ever spoken of these things. People have all sorts of inner experiences at different levels. And many of them speak about them. Whether they understand them or not.

Not just the formal organizations that advocate idolatry.

It is for the individual to grow for themselves leaving aside one photocopy for the real. Letting go of plastic pearls in order to find, test and embrace real ones.

Nothing wrong with sharing what you have found so far for yourself.

But as different people are in different places, it is unwise to tell anyone they are wrong about their own personal experience simply because you have no connection to it. Or to keep quiet. You should share what you have or have not experienced because that circumscribes your current understanding and helps define your current beliefs. That is actually a stage of development. When you don't care what others think. You are just trying to grow and refuse to hide what you have or have not seen.

For some the Guru is a fraud. For others a great source of strength, inspiration and bliss. These are neither false accounts. They reflect true inner experience, inner insight into one's own judgment and experience. Both can be very advanced. The one who you claim has no experience actually has experience. It's different than yours. They didn't get what you have. They got something else. When they realise that they have the power of Truth simply speaking to their experience or lack of our honestly, they become the Master for those caught up in belief and innactive faith, justification, not progress.

If hearing other's perspective helps you get in touch with your own that's great. If it annoys you, ask the person in the mirror about it. Try not to react but accept each person's experience as real and worthy for them.

Nothing anyone else says should make you think what you experienced or didn't is wrong. Just to keep questioning for the purpose of learning. Not to cover up with an explanation, which are all worthless, but to deepen your own inner experience of connection with this creation, with all its amazing places, and the compassionate intelligence within it by first having that relationship within yourself.

[Sonia]

I dont know if RSSB guru teaches such things to his sangat. Earlier you said in one of comments word - Asshole. Is this acceptable in Spiritual world??

Posted by: Deepak Sanotra | June 01, 2020 at 03:37 AM

Probably not. If RSSB was in the habit of officially excommunicated people then you could just consider me excommunicated.

[Sonia]

@Deepak Sanotra

FYI, I’m an EX follower of RSSB.

[Spence Tepper]

What makes for a perfect individual, let alone a perfect Master?
Is someone all powerful if they have very limited power over their lives? Maybe no power at all? But in submission to that higher power that runs all things? To be the grain of sand in perfect peace with the beach. In that peace, within, in the intimate company of that Power, the force of creation within them that they are part of, they can within transcend these limits.

Is that really Mastery at all? Is that authority of any kind? I think it is the opposite. The "Master" is the ultimate student. They don't dare teach, but we learn from their example, and they share their own experiences. Their friendship as brother or sister. We learn to be better students.

To go along that ride we are always going to be passengers, since this creation and its pathway, and our place on the conveyor belt up was made a long time ago.

If there truly is a science of the soul it must be science. And there scientists, as perfect students, openly discuss not merely opinions, but what they have experienced, their results in this lab. The lab they learn in, experiment in every day. We honor those who gave us good methods as we go further in our own explorations. We have our laboratory and this is all we can do to learn, by using that lab with an open mind, exploring, discovering, and yes, discussing the experiences with an aim to understand and to broaden our access.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"The guru being referred to is the leader of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), a religious organization based in India that I belonged to for 35 years until I deconverted."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0hq7lDuzWE

[Meditator]

When many of us have known Him to be a Perfect Master and a God's representative has that given them all the inner insight just with that notion or plain belief.

Only those a few who have tread the path with love and discipline consistently may have been gifted inner visions so as to claim at least the path to be correct. The credibility of a Master and His worth on the inside is still farther which requires further efforts with love assisted by His grace.

[Sonia]

When many of us have known Him to be a Perfect Master and a God's representative has that given them all the inner insight just with that notion or plain belief.

Only those a few who have tread the path with love and discipline consistently may have been gifted inner visions so as to claim at least the path to be correct. The credibility of a Master and His worth on the inside is still farther which requires further efforts with love assisted by His grace.

Posted by: Meditator | June 03, 2020 at 10:20 AM

I’m just going to repeat what he’s been saying over and over to you Satsangis lately—that he’s not “perfect”.

[Meditator]

Each of us is perfect and therefore none is lesser perfect as we represent imperishable consciousness in well knit bodies by His exclusive will.

We downgrade ourselves if our thinking and actions are lesser than perfect, trivial, devoid of love for fellow perfect consciousnesses.

It is time lag that confounds us that we could not experience for now what a Master has revealed - the Truth behind this big realtime movie - stage managed precisely from behind. The Master merely teaches us to follow what He has followed to track for ourselves the reality or Truth.

Let's not panic but live a full, loving and happy life without prejudice for anybody and narrow mindedness.

[Rupinder]

I can't find this questionare in any video .

[S]

@777

“Compare this with :
Going in before your time in this pinda astral world°° which
would make in a second a jeeva completely INSANE
I mean SO INSANE that even an observer loses his mental balance
and can become crazy as well
°° or see THIS Planet

Imaging the worst misdades the top cruelty like from Pol Pot, Mao, Nero or
from thegenocide against the armenians with tens of miles
of women, children & men , cruxified along the road free for passengers to misuse
as according to their pervers taste
and so much much much more”

********

Yep. Did that too. Ergo...

Anyway, I just discovered that acceptance is letting go. Letting go. You would think resistance is letting go but it’s not. Acceptance is actually the release.

Weird.

Posted by: Sonia | June 04, 2020 at 09:25 AM

SMS w/GSD 001

[Sonia]

I can't find this questionare in any video .

Posted by: Rupinder | June 04, 2020 at 05:52 AM

Meant to address you—SMS w/GSD 001 & 002. I didn’t watch the third one past a minute because he had this look this face like he could kill you with his stare if he wanted to.

[Rupinder]

well the third one is in hindi and punjabi so... anyway i want to ask a personal question sonia , did you read the written scripters of saints like kabir sahab , bulle shah i mean apart from RSSB literature there personal and tried to decipher them, or any search of spirituality , because i have done and read a lot about these things . i am not yet initiated , cause i am very much new on this path.
i could this question to anybody on this site but they sound foriegn to me . So clearly they can't read there scriptures or writings of saints born here.if you have read them personally ,as you said you are an ex follower i would really like your opinion .

[Rupinder]

Also this post is from 31st may so the third video is really out of context

[Sonia]

Hi Rupinder,

I’m not Indian even though my name is Sonia. :) I just said in case you assumed I was. When I worked for tech companies in the US, our engineers from India would assume I was Indian just based on our email communication because they assumed Sonia was an Indian name.

Anyway, enough about me. I’m very aware that I do far too much talking about myself at times. I like hearing about other people a whole lot more. But not too many like to make a lot of “I” statements (especially on this site). Oh well...

It’s interesting, of all the Saints, Kabir and Bulleh Shah are among my favorites. I haven’t read all of their works/scriptures but I’m a fast reader so give me a day or two and I’ll get back to you.

And as far as the videos go, I was referring to the English versions of Spirituality Made Simple by GSD 001 - 004. Although, 003 didn’t seem to have English subtitles... but I barely watched a minute of it anyway.

[manoj]

Gurinder Dhillion has been fully Exposed again with his very own words. And I totally agree with you Brian and with your experiences too i would say you're one of the lucky ones who got away who finally saw Gurinder for what he's always been. Radha Soami is a despicable cult which thrives on lies, manipulation and deception. Gurinder dhillion is nothing more than a self proclaimed manipulating weak god man with no human values whatsoever. Living, stealing millions of his very own family and putting them in jail and even shamefully land grabbing of poor farmers, his greed has no end. His behavior isn't even human let alone godly, with him even setting his goones on anyone he can. Even God wouldn't mistakenly make that mistake, to accidentally be in his pathetic presence. I can only hope that this exposed evil twisted cult meets the same fate that of its brother hood cult Ram Rahim MSG. "Even the Devil was once a Angel, beware of the Devil's disguise "

[Rupinder]

It's not necessary sonia you see i was just curois , to have a healthy discussion with someone , because the people i found on internet who have left the path , i found there reasons to be irrelevant as they haven't searched aur read by themselves so they just go on ranting , similarly the followers i mean its the one thing they still have common ,they haven't read or searched much either . So i can't got into contact with a person who has prior knowledge or experience of it. I will odd out the foriengners on this because i appreciate that they asks questions on it. But they really can't research on their own and read the scriptures on their own because of the language

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Rupinder
True Saints are in most all lands and all times. Therefore you can find one on your language if that is your sincete wish. No one needs to read a single word of any past Saint in any language. They can find the book in their own heart. And that is a loving book, a living book they can refer to again and again.

So you may rightly claim there are few outside of India familiar with Indian scripture in their native languages. But you would be unaware of the universal nature of spirituality to claim that one must read the Grant in its various original languages to understand true spirituality. Better to find a loving treacher, a loving teacher who can help you find three connections within yourself.

And these are around. They don't call themselves teachers nor show themselves to be called anything other than friend. They have no organizations, don't take money, don't have temples or places of worship, don't write scripture, and won't let you idolize them.

[Sonia]

@Rupinder

They’re translated into English. I guess some things may get lost in translation but for the most part the message is clear.

Hmmm... One Initiated or Kareem would probably enjoy discussing them with you but I haven’t seen either of them on here lately.

And I’m sure 777 has a zillion thoughts on the matter but he’s gone UNcognito.

I’m gonna read them anyway.

[Sonia]

Rupinder,

Oddly enough I’ve had more experiences than knowledge as far as the spiritual side of RSSB goes. And even with that it’s very confusing because we all have such unique karmas. Finding your purpose in life is a lifelong journey in itself. Watch the last part of 004 regarding teachers/saints. That may help.

Belief alone is not much use without love. But you have to believe in love in order to experience it. It’s a catch 22.

My experiences and opinions about Sant Mat are not relevant to anyone else. Whether you want to follow RSSB or one of the 20 other RS sects or some other version of Sant Mat or Religion (or not) you’ll figure out. “The truth is out there.” Or in here... or inside. We all have to figure that out on our own.

Sorry I’m not much help but I have a feeling you know the truth deep down.

[Sonia]

4. If you do voluntary decide to follow rssb and the master, we have a few rules that we would ask you to obey. If you don’t want to obey the rules, not a problem, but then please don’t join.

What is so Gdam difficult to understand?

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | May 31, 2020 at 03:17 PM

Wait, when did you get initiated?? It had to be sometime within the few times you were gone because you’ve told all of us a hundred million times that you’re not an initiate and not sure you want to get initiated. Now you’ve got me really confused.

I guess a lot happened in a few months...

[Spence Tepper]

"They never speak of being perfect Masters while in the human body. You may regard the Master as a friend or elder brother."
Sawan Singh

The True Saints won't let you or anyone else call them by any other title. They won't even refer to their own master when he or she lived as anything other than their friend.

[Rupinder]

@Spence Tepper
Brother my only point was i have'nt come across any foreign text that clearly mentions the inner worlds and spiritual journey within. If there are any let me know .
So my query till now was that the normal format for a satsang is that they took some saints bani(their teachings ) and one recites it and the other explains it . i don't know whats the format in other countries but thats how it goes in India. My doubt was only that the banis that are being reciten and the other one who is explaning it , does the bani really mean or they are forming themselves. Due to this query i read many saints teachings apart from RSSB literature and look upon different gurus or spiritual teachers in India. Thats why i asked Sonia if she has read them herself or not , since she sounded indian to me.. my apologies .
As for finding a loving teacher and a master , my normal nature is that i questions and asks alot , so it's very difficult for me follow someone . i always have doubts in my mind

[Rupinder]

Since the language is foreign you can't really decipher whether the banis are being axplained correctly or not

[Sonia]

Hmm... good point. Just Dr. Julian Johnson’s ‘Path of the Masters’ book in English. The good old former Southern Baptist Preacher from Kentucky. How bizarre that his book is the only one describing in detail the inner regions. And then there’s the RSSB set of encyclopedias on the cosmos and all things spiritual/mystical. It’s divided up kinda weird though.

Although, the RS gurus talk have spoken about the inner regions some from their experience. Not Gurinder, though. He’s never talked about the inner regions to my knowledge.

A lot of the recounts of experiences traveling within have been shared by people and occasionally by speakers but the experiences are so drastically different from person to person. It’s almost like people will start to see whatever they’ve been told is there. It’s like they co-create similar experiences. I guess that’s why they don’t talk about it anymore. It’s too strange for our modern society of intellectuals.

Besides, who knows what’s on the left.

Oh wait. I know. Liberals. 😂

I’m more of a Liberal for sure, but try to stay in the middle.

[Sonia]

@Rupinder

These discuss the inner regions as well.

Sar Bachan

http://www.radhasoami-spirit.com/essential_teachings_pdf.pdf

And on google books you can find the 8 books on Sach Khand (Sach Khand 1, Sach Khand 2, Sach Khand 3, and so on).

Some even include descriptions from Sikh Gurus.

[Rupinder Singh]

@Sonia
Thanks for your help .
I have also come across some old scriptures about these regions.

Since you stated that you are an ex follower and you mentioned that you only had experinces rather than knowledge.
Do you still belive in this things and looking for answers elsewhere.
Or you have now just moved ahead and try not to indulge in these things .
Or you are following another master .

I mean if i know these kind of things i will be curious to the highest amount and will try to search how to go there.

[Sonia]

@Rupinder

I answered your question on Open Thread 32

[manoj]

The RS cult and Gurinder Dhillion are very much similar to a Spiders web, the innocent folks get caught up in the web of lies, it's impossible to get away, a few make it out but the rest eventually meet they're fate.
Beware of the Black Widow it even eats it's own Mate!

[Uchit]

Rssb is a pure deception and the most wicked way of manipulating innocent souls who are very easy prey because of their life situation. The sangat are desperate for answers and along comes a so called self proclaimed guru to take them away like the pied piper. These cults are dangerous

[Achit]

So the so called guru of rssb officially admits that he is just doing a job, a well payed job, going from a sales/ hotel to a billionaire baba- what a promotion. This makes him a fraud, as the sangat believes he is a PARAM SAT SANT from the highest regions. It's totally unbelievable how even the cleverest doctors that are sangat can fall for this fraudster. Wake up sangat

[Uchit]

Just reading through the Q and A above with the so called perfect living master I make the following observations and comments to the so called guru :
1. If the real guru is the shabad, and we are already shabad why do we need a guru in the physical form or the shabad form. Also don't you know that you can be tricked by any entity posing as a guru in shabad form on the inside as well as outside
2. He says this position is dumped on him, but what a promotion from hotel / sales to a billionaire baba.
3. He says you need a living master to reach God, but how did jesus or buddha realise God, or for that matter even Krishna
4. He admits that he is not a competent master , and that Charan is , but when it comes to initiation which he says you need a perfect master for he says he can do it. This is a typical confusion technique he uses, and why you are left more confused than when you started , almost like a pre hypnosis technique
5. He distorts your karma and that your a marked souls to hook innocent souls into thinking they are saved and special and superior to others,part of a special club.
6. He says do your research yet all the books you are presented with are RSSB publications , and you are not allowed to Google or quote this so called guru.

In conclusion I find that this guru, Gurinder Singh Dhillan is a total fraud.

[anami]

Uchit,

The above Q&A is fictional. Just creative writing. I see the humor, but it's a little distorted in places.

GSD has put out 5 real Q&A videos now, and you can judge directly. So far I would recommend 002 and 003 over 001, because the discussion is more philosophical.

[manoj]

Uchit

You're bang on, Gurinder is a total fraud. Not to mention a Fake Guru too.

Anyone can chat shite, but just look at his very own actions they speak volumes. Isn't this the famous moto GSD lives by and teaches too. A quick Google search brings back a bucket load of results with the clown in question GSD exposed of ripping even his own nephew's off millions, Land grabbing like its going out of fashion and hiding from giving his Tax returns, like a newly wedded bride. Very fishy indeed even for a veggie. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Rotten to the core, lying out of his teeth blindly and still portraying a saintly halo. Tut Tut...Gurinder

[anami]

Oops, I didn't mean 003. I don't speak the language.

[anami]

"GSD exposed of ripping even his own nephew's off millions, Land grabbing like its going out of fashion and hiding from giving his Tax returns, like a newly wedded bride."

Small potatoes. People have done so much worse in the name of God.

[Uchit]

Anami
Your reply puzzles me as it highlights the hypocrisy between the GSD who is suppose to be the PERFECT SAINT PARAM SANT SAT GURU from the highest regions, and the expectations of the sangat. Are you saying that some answers from GSD are better than others? Are you saying he can be imperfect and that this is totally acceptable but not for the sangat as it's a sin and add to our karmic dept. This is total hypocrisy and the RSSB rules are all made up to keep the sangat inline and the so called fraudster masters and inner circle of sangat on top of the pile- Rather like he illuminate

[Uchit]

Anami
He could do worse??? What is worse than the lies , the deception of the path , RSSB has robbed the innocent sangat mind, body and soul of it's own life . It has made people feel guilty of the pleasures of life, while it's ok for GSD. A friend in your face with smoke and mirrors, but a wolf in sheep clothes. He has robbed the sangat for slavery and calls it seva, with no benefit to your self except false promises while the cult gets everything.

[anami]

Hey, Uchit.

Good Gurinder? Bad Gurinder? Who cares? In the final analysis, finding flaws in my own character is probably more useful. Did I think I was Mr Spiritual in my ideal image of Satguru 40 years ago? Okay, well, 35 years initiated, and how ideal am I? Not very. Funny you should use the word "puzzle." That's how I look at my practice, like solving the hardest puzzle ever. Supposedly, I have all the pieces, if I can find them and put them together the right way.

The answers in 001 were fine, but the questions didn't give him much to run with, that's all.

[manoj]

Anami

Is that not enough for you? Shame on you for condoning this kind of behavior and being a part of such pathetic rs teachings. Are these the virtues of a Perfect Living Master. Some People do live by these shallow criminal standards but "NOT" perfect Gurus, do they?
By all means go to the Circus and see GSD, but don't be the Clown.

[anami]

Okay, manoj and Uchit. So what's the Perfect Holy Path you guys are trying to sell us?

[Sonia]

Okay, manoj and Uchit. So what's the Perfect Holy Path you guys are trying to sell us?

Posted by: anami | June 12, 2020 at 07:22 AM

Good point, anami (BTW, had no idea you were a satsangi for that long.)

@Manoj and Uchit, this is an important question. Show me one belief system in the world from Spiritual to Religious to Atheist to Agnostic that isn’t represented by at least a few delusional leaders and cheerleaders.

Anything you believe regarding an after life—whether it exists or not, is essentially based on faith. Even Science has not been able to die, experience being dead and then come back to tell us about it.

The next issue is morality. Does what you believe make you a better person. If so, stick with it. If not, find something that does. Either way, let people decide for themselves. You can offer your opinions but don’t proselytize.

I’m curious too. What do you think is the ideal course or right path??

[manoj]

Telling the truth doesn't mean someone is trying to sell you something. Although I think you already believe that you have spent your money wisely, buying into a Indian fraudulent Baba GSD experience. Sorry to burst your bubble. Are you serious about achieving enlightenment? well what do you think you're doing on here then? could this be a light bulb moment...click away to nirvana, Happy learning

[Sonia]

And forget about Gurinder. I’m not talking about him. I’m talking about Sant Mat or any philosophy—what’s your creed?

Gurinder doesn’t claim to be perfect at all. Which essentially leaves him out of this discussion as far as I’m concerned.

[Uchit]

Anami
It puzzles me on your attitude to GSD and being totally accepting that he is totally opposite to a godly character.
It's your life so you decide, you've just been duggen out of a big rssb trap. Learn your lessons and move on. Stop looking for someone to give you all the answers as behind it you will get a so called gurus that will take everything off you and leave you with nothing. You may want to try and rescue your loved ones out of the rssb spiders web by spreading the awareness of what GSD is up to outside his RSSB duties. The image, the stage, are all smoke and mirrors, a trick of the devil. None of the Sikh gurus worked this hard on personal PR and image they were just ordinary people spreading the word and did not sell their soul to the devil.

[Solomon]

Here is the link to the latest Q&A session and it has some very excellent answers to all those who still have doubts about the path....

https://youtu.be/7atsZPmLPdA

[anami]

Dear manoj and Uchit,

Don't worry, my family is safe. No relatives were ever interested, and that's fine. We don't score points for converts, and the whole deal is very personal by nature.

Shouldn't I take the enlightened Middle Way when it comes to Baba Ji? He's my bro, not my guru. I'm a Charan Singh initiate. Gurinder too, I assume. Don't you know not to get sucked into sibling drama? And what's with all your Satan and devil talk? Very dualistic. What kind of enlightenment is that?

Do you have a problem with the whole line of RSSB gurus or only Gurinder? Do you have an opinion on the other RS branches?

[Sonia]

Here is the link to the latest Q&A session and it has some very excellent answers to all those who still have doubts about the path....

https://youtu.be/7atsZPmLPdA

Posted by: Solomon | June 12, 2020 at 07:55 PM

My husband sends me these the minute they’re released on YouTube. I’ll summarize: balance, balance, balance, balance and some more balance (he’s more libra than I am and I’m almost 100% Libra’s minus that nasty Scorpio rising).

And my favorite—“NEVER indulge in self pity” which he emphasized with all the exuberance of a typical Punjabi Sikh male.

It’s also Oprah’s motto—never feel sorry for yourself.

It was good.

And I don’t want to be accused of posting this link here, so again for the record, I am not Solomon.

[anami]

"Telling the truth doesn't mean someone is trying to sell you something."

"You may want to try and rescue your loved ones out of the rssb spiders web"

Dear manoj and Uchit,

Well, you must be Sikhs. Your names are a dead giveaway. Besides, what other religious group knows or cares about RSSB? That's cool, I have great admiration for you, kicking Moghul ass; whereas, my own dum-dum countrymen have murdered Sikhs, mistaking them for Muslims! I can see how you'd look on RS as heresy, but what appreciation would I have for the Adi Granth, except that our gurus refer it?

Are you guys against Gurinder only, the whole RSSB line, or every RS root, branch offshoot and mutation? There are many. Here are some...
https://santmatradhasoami.blogspot.com/2019/01/guru-lineage-charts-of-radhasoami-sant.html?m=1
...not to mention Eckankar, Quan Yin and Ishwar Puri.

It's a big web! You have a lot of work to do protecting everybody, especially from the horrors of vegetarianism and self control.

[anami]

manjit? Uchit? Come back! Let's be frenemies!

Honestly, you have a point. I first came here because my wife found an article on Malvinder, Shivinder and Baba Ji.
In it Brian Hines was quoted. I've followed the whole story, and it's troubling. Then there's Sheena's book, the Mr Babani story and accounts by Brian and others on this blog.

On the other hand, wasn't RSSB a target in Charan Singh's day, though he was much less controversial?

Inner path. I'll focus there and pat myself on the back for struggling less with the vows as I've aged.

[anami]

manoj, I mean.

But where is manjit lately? Where's 777?

[Sonia]

manoj, I mean.

But where is manjit lately? Where's 777?

Posted by: anami | June 15, 2020 at 10:47 AM

I know... where is everyone?

777 revealed his identity (sort of) with a link to his facebook page and then retired.

All the Gurinder defenders retired as well.

Job done I guess. 🙃

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

Hmmm... One Initiated or Kareem would probably enjoy discussing them with you but I haven’t seen either of them on here lately.

Posted by: Sonia | June 07, 2020 at 01:28 PM

Whoa!
Saint Kabir? That's one of the series of books I feared to read. No, no, I know nothing of that massive Sant. For beginners, I can recommend: A Spiritual Primer (Free of $).
https://rssb.org/spiritual-primer.html

[Sonia]

Whoa!
Saint Kabir? That's one of the series of books I feared to read. No, no, I know nothing of that massive Sant. For beginners, I can recommend: A Spiritual Primer (Free of $).
https://rssb.org/spiritual-primer.html

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | June 15, 2020 at 07:50 PM

I’m borrowing the Kabir book/s from a friend. We’re supposed to meet up sometime this week. There are so many books, it’s just one of many I haven’t read yet.

[anami]

Yes, Sonia. Even Jesse and Spence have been a little scarce.

You could say I've defended Gurinder too, in reaction to naked bullying, but it's an uncomfortable position without good answers to the allegations of wrongdoing. Meanwhile, I can't wag a finger, when my own life is far from stainless.

Karma, karma, karma, karma, karma chameleon.

[Rupinder]

Whoa!
Saint Kabir? That's one of the series of books I feared to read. No, no, I know nothing of that massive Sant. For beginners, I can recommend: A Spiritual Primer (Free of $).
https://rssb.org/spiritual-primer.html

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | June 15, 2020 at 07:50 PM

Thank You kareem but i have got my answers