« Religious people, why do you believe in God? | Main | John Oliver shows how bad India's Narendra Modi is »

February 25, 2020

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

We are surfing. The board is narrow. The sea wide and moving. Our track changes moment by moment. But we can feel our way along. We can sense the enormity. We can learn to see how the swell rises and moves. We watch the lines. We find our moment. We paddle up and join with the crest, and enter the lead. Yes we are leading. But the enormity chasing behind us demands a narrow path. And a complete focus on our spot right now. We position for the next step, but it is always the position we assume right now that determines that. The wave does the rest. Now, now, now. It's never anything else. But we dream of the next place we want to be. Not an ambitious dream. We can't dream too far out. If we wish to keep going. Surfers on all sides and sizes in the water attest to the fact that falling is just a normal part of it. They all have their wet suits on. Choices. Choices. Some better, some worse. And that moment of connection might as well be a steel track, because there is on either side the opportunity to fall. And yet, within that narrow track there is a small latitude. The sea helps us stay on track, so long as we don't do anything stupid. We are in a relationship with a great and silent teacher. A shift in weight and we alter course, we can choose a wider path. Where to go next? Slight left? Or slight left left? We steer with the weight in the bottoms of our feet. Our very loose connection to the wave, to the earth. It's not even a connection. But we are connected. It's the only way we can stay afloat. And align the rest of our body weight to match our feet.

Religious people, why do you believe in God?

Because They are HIM. 💥❤️💥

💥❤️💥 under pseudo with temporal amnesia and. low IQ

Thought I'd kick-off this new thread with a description of 'Being a Taoist'. Not that I am a Taoist but the descriptions are at the same time fun - and perhaps relevant.

If you describe yourself as “spiritual but not religious”... you might be a Taoist.

If you think that less government is better... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 57,58, 59 & 60)

If you believe that you can behave ethically without religious guidelines... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 19)

If you think that people should spend less time worrying about the meaning of life and more time living it... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 20, 46 & 48)

If you see yourself as just another part of the natural world, like a bird, or a rock, or a stream... you might be a Taoist.

If you're content with the fact that you're not a supernatural being, that when you die the chemical reaction sustaining your life ends and your atoms return to the universe. In fact, if you believe that you never really were separate from the universe so there is no returning to do... you might be a Taoist.

If you don't believe that there's an all-powerful, all-knowing god who listens to everyone's prayers and responds to only those he deems worthy... you might be a Taoist.

If you're an agnostic or an atheist... you might actually be a Taoist.

If you think Thoreau should have just said, “Simplify.” (instead of "Simplify, simplify.")... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 46, 48 &80)

If you think that all religious fundamentalists are nuts... you might be a Taoist.

If you think less money should be spent on crushing our enemies and more on making them our friends... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 30 & 46)

If you prefer the gentle peace of Tai Chi to the kicking and punching of Tae Kwon Do... you might be a Taoist.

If you understand that good and evil are human, not divine, definitions... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 5)

If you like Benjamin Hoff's “The Tao Of Pooh”... you might be a Taoist.

If you believe that no one, no religion, no philosopher, no charismatic leader knows the true answer... you might be a Taoist.

If you don't believe that you have done anything that you need salvation for... you might be a Taoist.
If you believe in living in the moment, not dwelling on the past, or worrying about the future... you might be a Taoist.

If you can see that by defining beauty you have defined what is ugly... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 2)

If you try not be one of the "people being persuaded to spend money they don't have on things they don't need to create impressions that won't last on people they don't care about"... you might be a Taoist. (Verses 44, 46 & 48)

If you don't believe in divinely inspired miracles, only amazing coincidences... you might be a Taoist.

If you can be a leader without trying to be in charge... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 10, 17, 58 & 59)

If you prefer NPR over Fox News... you might be a Taoist. ;)

If your definition of creationism is that man created gods... you might be a Taoist.

If you prefer to "go with the flow", slipping like water around all types of physical and mental obstacles... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 8)

If you know when you have enough and you don't need a lot... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 9&46)

If you think that groups that preach acceptance and then exclude large sections of humanity from joining them are hypocrites... you might be a Taoist.

If you know that you have a better understanding of what your spiritual needs are than some (self-)proclaimed holy man... you might be a Taoist.

If you're a vegan or vegetarian or a tree-hugging environmentalist... you might be a Taoist.

If you have a hard time reconciling proven historic and scientific facts with contradictory stories passed down by uneducated superstitious desert dwellers, edited and re-edited by generations of religious and government leaders for their own benefit, constantly quoted out of context by followers with their own agendas, about a god who's described as jealous, petty, indecisive, and ruthless, having murdered millions, including admittedly innocent victims... you might be a Taoist.

If you believe that “whatever happens, just happens”... you might be a Taoist.

If you love your fellow earthlings (human and non), just want to see us all get along and quit harming the planet... you might be a Taoist.

If you value others not only for their similarities but for their differences... you might be a Taoist.

If you think that if someone doesn't approve of gay marriage, then they shouldn't have one... you might be a Taoist.

If you believe that the laws of nature work better and make more sense than alleged "holy" laws... you might be a Taoist.

If you can see that the true path to enlightenment can only be found within you, that any human being who claims to know your path is lying... especially if they're asking for donations... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 1)

If you get that the hawk is not evil because she kills the chicken, the hawk is just being a hawk... you might be a Taoist.

If you have a hard time believing that a just and perfect god would punish a whole country by sending a hurricane to destroy good and bad alike... you might be a Taoist.

If you can see that you are living the perfect life for you, in a perfectly designed universe... you might be a Taoist.

If you understand that a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step... you might be a Taoist. (Verse 64)

In short...
If you can conceive of an unnameable infinite power (call it Tao) that has always existed, that powers the universe, holds molecules together, makes the flowers bloom, birds sing, your heart beat, allows some things to evolve while others don't, allows the sun to shine and rain to fall on both the good and the evil, all without putting any demands on the recipients or having the need to be worshiped or even acknowledged... then you might be a Taoist. (Verse 25 & 34)

*************************************
"Where Zen and Buddhism will say the truth, enlightenment, and so on can be reached through dedicated meditation and practice, a Tao master may sip some wine, fart, and go to sleep."
from Daily Cup of Tao
*************************************

@ Turan

You are not born to be the sun of your parents, the brother, nephew, uncle to the rest of the family. Neither are you born to befriend anything or anybody, let alone offer your live for an ideal, country, religious belief or being a called a taoist.

But …..

Being alive you have to deal with all these things and if so you are advised to make the best of it.

I often had to clean the floor of the kitchen of my families food business … I did it as good as i could and as swift as possible, so that i was released of the ties and free again, having no interest whatsoever what they would think or feel.

To remain free is to be alive, to be human also.
He said … do your duties as {naming the different roles I had to play] … but … don't get emotionally involved in these ties nor the persons involved.

Hi Um
You write
"I often had to clean the floor of the kitchen of my families food business … I did it as good as i could and as swift as possible, so that i was released of the ties and free again, having no interest whatsoever what they would think or feel."

I clean the toilet in my place until it glows and sparkles with an almost angelic radiance.and if angels had scents, my clean toilet exudes it. And not just because I like a clean toilet. I like comfortable guests. I like guests to be pleased with how nice things are. I like that a lot.

And when we all took an old chartered bus to see Gurinder, I volunteered to clean the bus toilet. It was a long journey. I cleaned it five or six times a day. I sat in back just waiting to clean it again.

It was my pleasure.

In fact it was one of the easiest and simplest things I could do for my brothers and sisters. It was nothing. Life is difficult. Why make it worse with a dirty toilet?
But a gleaming, perfumed toilet? Takes maybe a minute or two. Takes nothing. Takes next to zero effort.
But the comfort it provides others? Can't be measured.

To really help the world in some big way, that's out of reach. But I'm not helpless. I can help in a way people really like. I can do something. And it's so so simple and easy.

The fact it's so simple and so nice, it's just pure pleasure.

So how come something that takes very little skill and nearly zero time can become a source of pleasure, even pride? Because no one else wants to do it!
These are the treasures. Next to zero effort.
When you perform some great athletic feat, or some great intellectual accomplishment you can feel proud that you did what no one else could do. It may have taken your whole life and every thing you had in skill and will.

But it's nearly the same feeling when you do what no one else wants to do, but which everyone on earth wants done!

Bargain of the century.
It's like hidden treasure.

And now I have real admiration when I see a guy in the public men's room cleaning up all the time, the toilets, the urinals, sinks, leaving out a couple of bottles of cologne, offering you a clean towel to dry your hands, a bottle of mouthwash near the sink with paper cups, dressed in black slacks, white shirt and a black vest. Such pride. He gets a big tip.

I get why he loves the work.
And he has every reason to love it. It's clean, useful and helpful work.

@ spence

Chains can be of iron but lso of gold and a prison can be a class or b class … whatever they look like, in the end they take your freedom away.

To remain free is to be alive, to be human also.

He said … do your duties as {naming the different roles I had to play] … but … don't get emotionally involved in these ties nor the persons involved.

"The smile" on the faces of others can be addictive and become a curse.

For that reason Christ must have said that one hand should not Know from the other hand what it does for worse things can befall one. Other colleagues of Christ have issued the same warning in other words.

It was my duty as son to obey may parents. If it was cleaning, I cleaned. I never sought their praise, it just didn't matter. When the job was finished I could attend again to my own life in freedom.

Our parents cared for their children and there was no need to do anything for them to change their attitude towards their children… so cleaning floors was just an duty and not a means to please them, it was simple not necessary to please them.

request.

Has anybody ever located the book that is mentioned here:
https://archive.org/details/SantGaribDasRadhsoamiBookAnmolVachan/page/n11/mode/2up

The original hindi version … ANMOL BACHAN??

Hi Um
No need to justify what you wrote. No need to paraphrase Charan or Jesus or amend your interpretation.

You may be living exactly as they intended, whatever that is. You are most certainly living as you intend.

And that can be different for different people.

Joy is going to be part of each person's life, as is sadness, each in their own proportion. And while it is interesting to see where that fulcrum of balance lay for each individual, it is not going to be in the same place.

Be happy with the indifference you cherish. That is yours. It is what makes you who you are. It may be an improvement on sadness. It may give you the strength to live exactly as you wish. Sadness can change us. Compassion that breaks our heart can move us in a different direction. So I understand how indifference may, therefore, be a source of happiness. But it is no wiser than joy in simple things, joy even in pleasing others. That arises naturally in some people also. It's His gift too.

And the sadness that compels us to stop and become soft, stop and accommodate, apologize and make amends, there is great joy and wisdom in that also.

@ Spence

It has nothing to do with indifference …. those who are happy need not to dance to be happy and those who are sad do not need to cry, to express their feelings.

And … those who care, need not to do anything, for that love to radiate from them.
You are free to use other words for caring.

And for guests to feel at home, there is no need to clean toilets.

The use of his words is simple explained, in that what they convey cannot be said in simpler and easier to understand ways….they were given to me to use and as a tool to live by.

So again … do your duties but don't get emotionally involved as xxxx, yyyy but don't get emotionally involved in these ties nor the persons involved.


-- Greene has it backwards.

Stuff is nothing more than consciousness

WITH A PURPOSE

777

PS/REF: my old comment
"This is how it works"

Hi Um
You write
"And for guests to feel at home, there is no need to clean toilets."

Trust me in this one, they aren't telling you.

@ spence

If they would, I probably will ask them if they are inspectors from the government and/or trying to move me to give them extra apple py.

Bath rooms have to be clean in order to function well, they are not made to arouse emotions, compliments … musea or nature are better suited for that purpose.

I am not born to make people happy … neither unhappy ofcourse… but … some re-act with happiness and others with the opposite on my actions … it is up to them.

It reminds me of my dad, peace be upon his soul if he had one. He was not much of a talker. One day he called me and said … Be aware of those who make you compliments when the join your table for diner. On seeing my surprised face he added … don't you understand?! … those who do are easily not to be trusted and have an hypocritical bend of mind. When I asked him what made him think so het said … look those who are hungry, first eat and from their way of eating you can see what it does to them.

Good things do no need to be applauded.

So again … do your duties but don't get emotionally involved as xxxx, yyyy but don't get emotionally involved in these ties nor the persons involved.


Posted by: Um | February 27, 2020 at 12:05 AM

Absolutely bang on but not easy to achieve.

Hi Um
I understand where your distrust comes from.

And your disinterest in pleasing or serving anyone.

But when it comes to progress that must be overcome.

We must stay focused on other's strengths, however hidden they may be. They must be nurtured to grow. And at some point, spend our entire life on others.

The True Saint has no concern for their own growth. They are fully grown already.

But every good gardener, even one for hire, is passionate to help the garden grow.

The seedlings born in darkness, thinking this is life, need a little water and sunlight. Then as you say, the rest happens automatically. But it's a combination of seed, soil, water and Gardner. The seed has little say. To the seed, thinks just happen. This is of some amusement to the gardener. But as a sapling, that's right. Just stay put, stay out of trouble and grow from within!


The Gardener always has their hands full. Absolutely full, 24 x 7. No end of work in the service to the landlord.

But each of us is cut out for our particular work.

@ Wise owl

That is right … it is not that easy
As long as the truth of the statement is not caught it is maybe impossible even
… and … than it that takes time put it into practice.
Personally I doubt if one can practice it at all, it has to came natural.
Probably he was right when he said that cream floats natural on the milk if left alone.

It is strange and becomes even more stranger writing here day by day, now the obligation, the desire an what other things that walk around in a persons mind, compelling one to be a "good" stasangi or even to be an satsangi at all, have faded out over time.

Food has to be tasted, eaten and digested … not discussed.

@ Spence

In nature there is no need for a gardener.

The gardener makes himself indispensable by first depriving plants from their natural environment and possibilities of growth.

Naturally if a person puts himself in the position of the "gardener" he has to suffer the consequences.

>>I understand where your distrust comes from. >And your disinterest in pleasing or serving anyone. <<

doing ones duties, is impossible without first proper investigation of what is needed in given situation. These duties are by necessity an service and often pleasing too an consequence.

But pleasing and serving as a goal or means is something else

Thank you are right Spence. Hello missed you.

Hi Um
You write
"In nature there is no need for a gardener."

Nature has many many workers in her garden. Many, many Gardeners.

Stop. And look around.

Hi Arjuna!
Hello!

"We must stay focused on other's strengths, however hidden they may be. They must be nurtured to grow. And at some point, spend our entire life on others."

Crikey! I do enjoy reading all these different viewpoints and at the same time observing the different ways people think and act. Spence says in the above comment how to help others and I realise that this is his mission in life because he is helping others in his daily life and hospital work.

Makes me realise how complicated and different people are. My practice in life is very different to the 'service to others' type attitude. Zen is about acknowledging and exploring feelings of emptiness within one's self, watching and being aware, also being calm and kind to self and others. Letting go is my mantra. Maybe emptiness helps as a defence mechanism, especially for an empath, to not feel the pain and suffering of the world by replacing it with some kind of 'void'.

Hi Jen
It's a gift to have solitude.

Hi Jen again!
You wrote
"Maybe emptiness helps as a defence mechanism, especially for an empath, to not feel the pain and suffering of the world by replacing it with some kind of 'void'."

If you can be at home in that emptiness, comfortable in it, live in it, on bed terms with it, intimate with it, then you have mastered the greatest source of fear in the world.

You have conquered the enemy.

Sometimes I wonder what it would actually take to shock people on this blog. I mean, I’ve tried as hard as I can here but hardly get any pushback. 😂

I spend my life observing and analyzing people and I can say for certain this is a very unique and interesting group of commenters...

Most of what I say is sincere but a lot of my comments are just for shock value. I want to see how people are going to react to certain ideas and concepts.

But you guys... you’re a tough crowd. It’s like you’re all veteran witnesses of bizarre and crazy behavior.

I guess that’s why I enjoy this blog so much.

I’m really starting to believe that if you took all the regular commenters on this blog and put them in front of an alien ship that had just landed, they wouldn’t even have a look of shock on their faces. I think they’d just start debating whether or not the spaceship was really there and then go into some debate about the validity of quantum physics and the engineering it would take to build such a space ship. All this while aliens were deplaning and trying to get their attention. But they wouldn’t be interested in the aliens because they’d still be debating String Theory, the Theory of Everything and stuff like that.

🤣🤣🤣

It’s like NOTHING is too weird for this sciencey atheist blog!!! I’m sorry, it’s just so ironic and entertaining.

Poor Brian, he’s like WTF do I have to do to get through to these people!

But I say all of this with deep affection. 😆

Thanks Spence, it sure is a gift and I do enjoy my solitude :)

Sonia, I'm still waiting for that space ship to arrive and checking out those aliens !!

Brian is a saint with what he puts up with ;)

@ But they wouldn’t be interested in the aliens because they’d still be
@ debating String Theory, the Theory of Everything and stuff like that.

Spot on... although if the ET's request "Take me to your leader",
they'll witness actual fighting.

@ But they wouldn’t be interested in the aliens because they’d still be
@ debating String Theory, the Theory of Everything and stuff like that.

Spot on... although if the ET's request "Take me to your leader",
they'll witness actual fighting.

Posted by: Dungeness | February 27, 2020 at 11:12 PM

🤣🤣🤣 Very true.

Regarding the Tao again. Perhaps because any originating causal agent is beyond the ability of a simple thinking organism – us. I like the fact that we cannot use it, cannot make of it a commodity, cannot make it into a mind object to enhance the ego/self. Our numerous opinions and comments here (including this one), probably serve to maintain our egos, our self structures – but thankfully you cannot do this with Tao.

The Tao te Ching states:-

Soundless and formless, it depends on nothing and does not change.
It operates everywhere and is free from danger.
It may be considered the mother of the universe.
I do not know its name, I call it Tao.

Thanks Turan,

I love the Taoist teachings. Found this article about body and brain health...

The Taoist Brains: Who are the TAO & What is their Philosophy?

https://www.superfeast.com.au/blogs/superblog/the-taoist-brains

@Some hoarding

When living in a place where many come on vacation
it s wise to buy 2 or 3 weeks canned food
and medication
My town f I will probably go in quarantaine with interdiction to leave
for some time

Cheers

7

The Crucifixion is cancelled..... Along with the resurrection..and Jesus is being laid off.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/os-et-holy-land-history-20200228-6nmpyrgts5b3bfmgibpqmjch4y-story.html?outputType=amp

Maybe it's time for Holly Land to become Guru Land, or better still, Discovery Land?

Having Goose Bumps much of the time
mainly by music,

I wonder how that would play off , having them all the time!!

777


not referring to Anahabad Shabd here ! that's a whole other world

But, since super-consciousness has stepped down awareness for
thrill enhancement, the body's 1/5 sec.

Some meditations activate akashic neurones at higher speeds
RssB's . . at >light speed of the Maker

Exciting

777

The Crucifixion is cancelled..... Along with the resurrection..and Jesus is being laid off.


Maybe it's time for Holly Land to become Guru Land, or better still, Discovery Land?

Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 29, 2020 at 04:04 AM

Good for JC. He can enjoy his retirement now.

Holyland to bland. Interesting journey.

The Tao te Ching states:-

Soundless and formless, it depends on nothing and does not change.
It operates everywhere and is free from danger.
It may be considered the mother of the universe.
I do not know its name, I call it Tao.

Posted by: Turan | February 28, 2020 at 08:24 AM

How different is this Tao fron the 'Word', 'Shabd' 'Sarosh', Logos, Akash bani, Kalma or Bang-i-Ilahi, The music of the spheres etc

"Lao-Tzu (also known as Laozi or Lao-Tze) was a Chinese philosopher credited with founding the philosophical system of Taoism. He is best known as the author of the Tao-Te-Ching, the work which exemplifies his thought. The name by which he is known is not a personal name but an honorific title meaning `Old Man’ or `Old Teacher’ and there has been countless speculation as to whether an individual by that name ever existed or whether Lao-Tzu is an amalgam of many different philosophers."

Every morning I start my day with the I Ching, the ancient book of Chinese wisdom, using the Chinese oracle coins.

I'm glad that I experienced the "New Age Movement" in the 1970s. There was a very strong feeling of freedom and love and laughter and flower power etc. I also was initiated by Charan in the 70's.

I notice in today's world that people are not that interested in mysticism and seem to be very serious and logical. As an old gal now I miss those magical times.

How different is this Tao fron the 'Word', 'Shabd' 'Sarosh', Logos, Akash bani, Kalma or Bang-i-Ilahi, The music of the spheres etc

Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 29, 2020 at 06:34 AM

@all
I had a long list of these equivalents bt lost it on an old hard disk
Perhaps somebody has that - like 20 shabd_names from all kind of cultures

7

Hi Steve
You ask
"How different is this Tao fron the 'Word', 'Shabd' 'Sarosh', Logos, Akash bani, Kalma or Bang-i-Ilahi, The music of the spheres etc?"

Do you know?

Pick your myth.
And honor the myths of others.

Enjoy your freedom. Live and let live.

Hi Steve
You ask
"How different is this Tao fron the 'Word', 'Shabd' 'Sarosh', Logos, Akash bani, Kalma or Bang-i-Ilahi, The music of the spheres etc?"

Do you know?

Pick your myth.
And honor the myths of others.

Enjoy your freedom. Live and let live.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | March 01, 2020 at 12:31 PM

Thank you for this valuable advice. But am more interested in the answer to my question. Have one do you?

Myth - a widely held but false belief or idea. Thus myths have no place for me.

Hi Steve.

As far as the words/terms you mentioned in your query of Tao, if they refer to something, an idea or concept then that is not Tao. As far as I know, Logos is the nearest to Tao as it refers to a/the controlling principle of the Universe – or God! Tao literally translated is the 'way'. But in Taoist terms it is the unconditional and 'unknowable' source and guiding principle of all reality which is why the quote I first mentioned states 'I do not know its name, I call it Tao.'

I prefer (indeed cannot) name this wonder that we call life. Just to acknowledge that it is, is enough – and in the Taoist, Buddhist or Zen sense check out who/what is doing the investigating – and why.

I doubt whether a simple evolved organism like ourselves which believes in its own self grandeur is capable (or necessary) to understand any original causal agent of this life and universe. Our ego, our thinking brain denies this perhaps because it is too uncomfortable for us not to know and confront our limitations.

@Steve Kinsella

I guess YES

Although all our Chakra_tunnels generate sound_vibrations
and can be heard by sensible individuals

So, . . location is very important, . . like always

What to my 2cts opinion is important is that the practitioner
ps aware of swelling of the shabd above the eyes
Swelling is different from Volume
it is the Love that one feels
but I don't know if it is a good English word for this phenomenon



777

@Turan and @777

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sandeepmaheshwari.com/pdf/THE%2520ONE.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjCys-LuvnnAhVv_XMBHYVWCZMQFjAEegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2B5updpz4r5Fzs6-6UrbK-


The article is informative - whether about shabd names in different cultures or is tao any different from words/terms listed by Steve Kinsella.

@Steve, I would probably not be wrong in presuming the intent behind your post was to convey that Tao isn't something unique as both the path/way and the creative and sustaining power has been referred to by others as well across geography and time.

A UK based punjabi radio station covered this during their news segment:

http://www.uniindia.com/dera-beas-head-meets-mann/north/news/1904517.html

Just more stench as far as I can tell, not that I'm paying much attention to be fair.

A Wise 🦉
That gave me a lot of Goose Bumps to read
The Real Method is Love
starting with helping an old ugly man across the street
777

Spot on... although if the ET's request "Take me to your leader",
they'll witness actual fighting.

Posted by: Dungeness | February 27, 2020 at 11:12 PM

We wouldn't put forth this request to the motley group here. We know where to head ..... And that is - head to GSD!!!!

LoL.

Hey Brian,

Found this for you: https://youtu.be/JrdEMERq8MA

😄

@InDoubt
Brian said:
(including myself) would be pleased to acknowledge the existence of God if there was good reason to do so. Which, there isn't.

isn't it scientifically appealing to believe in solipsism/solispism (wiki)

Just believe it
or stop thoughts💥❤️💥 during one minute
Is that too much?
and then be SURE

I applaude very much God for this gorgeous arrangement
If not, Thoughts would conquer music

777


Can we all at least agree that GOD is not a person??? If GOD is anything, it's energy. We with our little minds like to speak of God in the language of personhood because it's relatable.

You should hear how the squirrels talk about humans. They think we're all nuts!

haha

Hi Sonia
You wrote
"Can we all at least agree that GOD is not a person???"

Why not? If energy runs through us all, could there be people who personify that energy?

Why not?

@ Can we all at least agree that GOD is not a person???
@ You should hear how the squirrels talk about humans. They think we're all nuts!

They say God's in all living things so there's hope for
nuts... no matter how squirrelly the notion may seem.


99;9999 % vs thisblog
💥❤️💥

Dungness,
:0)
......


99;9999 % vs thisblog
💥❤️💥

Posted by: 💥❤️💥 Do some exit polls @bandharas 💥❤️💥 | March 05, 2020 at 07:54 AM

OK, sure I’ll get right in that... Do they still call them “bandharas”?

Let’s see, how many frequent flier miles do I have left? 🤔

Why not? If energy runs through us all, could there be people who personify that energy?

Why not?

Posted by: Spence Tepper | March 04, 2020 at 04:30 PM

You mean GIHF? Like your masters Huzur and GSD?

The most beautiful experience we can have
is the mysterious - the fundamental emotion
which stands at the cradle of true art and true science.
-- Albert Einstein
.............................

Am I a Mystic? 10 Telltale Signs of Mystics

1. You value experiences above all else.
2. You question existence.
3. You are comfortable with uncertainty
4. You value intuition
5. You are uncomfortable with spiritual hierarchies
6. You have your own set of rules
7. You value internal growth
8. You believe you are a conduit for power, not the source
9. You believe love is the source of life
10. You don't know everything

https://www.gaia.com/article/am-i-a-mystic-10-signs

Hi Jen
I love the list and believe it 100%. That is my belief.
All the true Saints I've met meet those criteria.

Hi Trevor
You write
"You mean GIHF? Like your masters Huzur and GSD?"

Yes. And more. True Saints do not call themselves Saints or even Masters. They don't allow anyone ever to call them by any honorific or title. Every title is a barrier. Every title is a competition with God, intervening between us and the divine.

They encourage us to spend time with nature, because the divine is in everthing and everyone, and quite visible to the innocent, or trained eye, the sensitive eye. Some children can see it. An adult needs to be trained.

They see that everyone is a puppet, and they are intimate with the one who made the one pulling the strings.

True Saints have no titles.

But some of us need authorized teachers and authorities. We have lost our sensitivity to what is happening within us and around us, and how everthing happening around us is a reflection of what is happening within us, and so we need some method to reconnect.

For those, we get stage actor Gurus. But good stage actors point to the same thing, the true Saints, and the one Lord. They have a level of purity, a level of understanding, and represent a stage of our development. They are mostly an informed, enlightened projection of our own need. But that is ok, because that need is a real need, not to be denegrated, but to be honored as real and persued as our own sacred journey, the journey and purpose of our tiny but important life.

The problem is that the rich stage actors are impure, to some lesser or greater degree, just like the rest of us. They have a level of wisdom intermixed with lust, anger, greed, attachment and pride. Their role often requires a mighty ego, to wield power, to control an organization. We are impressed that they are as pure as they are.

But the True Saints have mastered the ability to live without needing any of that baggage. They do not have divided interests. They aren't actually centered here. Their office is a different place. And that is where their values are too. They are the ultimate role models of a simple, singular life of devotion, absolutely pure, spotless, free of corruption, completely humble. This is why people in general, covered in rust, burdened under iron shakles, can't see them.

Not to say the true Saints don't have all the same challenges and temptations of this biochemical body; the stresses of membership in society, and the duties of job and family.

But they have mastered those same tendancies and duties with the greater power of Spirit within them, by simply not existing in this body. That is why they are not affected by these things. They are the expression of that power and use it daily to clean the mind they must use here to function, to live basically in the highest regions within full time, and merely function here as a part time thing.

Find one of them. They are in every land. Then they will become your standard.


Nice opportunity as long
as it( the cosmos) will last


The paper revives a theory that dates back to 1982, by theoretical physicist Edward Witten.

“A hole spontaneously forms in space and rapidly expands to infinity, pushing to infinity anything it may meet,” Witten wrote in his paper.

Physicists have long posited that most of our universe is made up of nothingness, or vacuum. Anything in a more “excited” or unstable state tends to decay to lower energy states by releasing energy. That means our universe is relatively stable.

False Vacuum
But now, scientists, including the ones behind the new paper, are questioning this conclusion, suggesting that the universe is experiencing a “false vacuum,” and hasn’t truly transitioned to its least excited and most stable state. The result: a “bubble of nothing” that could “‘eat’ all of spacetime, converting it into ‘nothing,'” Marjorie Schillo, lead author from Uppsala University, told

@Trevor
Like your masters Huzur and GSD?

All the way back to Melchisadeck and long before
without making new karma, whatever THEY do,
always out. of kal's scope

777

"whatever THEY do,
always out. of kal's scope"

True Saints never like to violate the laws of this place, and they model living within the laws.

The stage actor Gurus have divided interests and violate the laws here all the time, in their own personal interests, exploiting their authority, doing what they would never advocate for their followers.

Their followers are constantly burdened with justifying these excesses, denying it, making claims their guru is above the law. It's atractive because it gives the followers permission, they think, to indulge in similar excesses. However, the very act of justifying burdens their own subconscious mind, their own conscience, making inner progress divided, weakened, and limited by that very burden.

The creator of the laws doesn't break them. He or she honors them. Every jot of the law. Every comma and period, every "i" dotted, every "t" crossed.

The true Saints are the role models of how to live without harm.

But the followers of the stage actors must always make excuses for the harm the stage actors inevitably cause. And this harms inner focus, inner progress by creating a subconscious division. Because at some hidden level they can't allow themselves to acknowledge, they know it's wrong.

@Spence

I think people are the energy but the Source is energy. Meaning it doesn’t judge.

Jen,

❤️ the top 10! Thx!!

@spence

(1) ordinary mortals (2) true saints (3) good stage actors (4)rich stage actor


Wow..... Awesome categorisation. All on the basis of outward appearances, titles, life(style) they lead.

This rationale you suggest is childish at best.
Unless you claim:

God himself revealed that these are the categories and that physical appearance/ state, life (stle) led, ought to be the deciding factor.

Btw, there can only be two categories - complete masters (aka true masters/saints) or incomplete master and do you have the bandwidth to distinguish between the two? Well..... But you are welcome to your views.

Sd/-

Sath_Path

Hi Sonia
"I think people are the energy but the Source is energy. Meaning it doesn’t judge."

When an innocent child says what they see we don't say the child judges. They are just speaking what they see. But adults teach that child to be silent. Or to say different words. The adults teach that child about self - interest. And about judging.

Adults who have no problem opining night and day in their own self - interest tell that child not to judge, who has no capacity to judge. But in truth neither do the adults.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

You wrote
"Wow..... Awesome categorisation. All on the basis of outward appearances, titles, life(style) they lead."

To lead a simple life of no titles, and no distractions, dedicated to the Spirit.
To serve others while taking full responsibility for oneself.
To be kind through and through, generous, gentle, meek, but steadfast in devotion.
To live lean, on limited means, and yet happy in all circumstances, in reasonable comfort, a small footprint, a life of no harm, no burden.
A loving father, son, brother, sister, daughter, mother. A loving friend.
A dedicated employee but never a boss.
Attentive, with no other time demands. A purposefully small life.
Singular in love.
No hint of anger.
No hint of greed, no interest in acquisition, refusing every source of authority or fame.
Infinitely patient, and Infinitely listening, interested.
Having confidence in God and good work, but giving credit away entirely to God and all others. Living wisely out of the spotlight, but always helping others to have their moments there. Enjoying vicariously the success of others. Submitting all the time to God, and through God, all their friends. Bending very low.
Bending to the ground to feed those around them and the entire world. A tree laden with fruit, full, ready for the harvest, burdened with fruit, anxious to give.

If you knew such a one your standards would change.

First, you would become ashamed. Then you would want to live in that atmosphere of love all the time. Then to become nothing, to become your friend.

You would see pride, avarice, impatience in the stage actors are weaknesses. You would recognize the show they are putting on. And you would prefer your Friend who wears no masks, who is transparent.

But you could only know this because of your association with a True Saint. And your recognition of these barriers to love, and to life, within yourself.

The true Saint inspires you, not to hate yourself for being less, but to love that you are a seed germinating in love and kindness. That the source, Nam, Word, is abundant within you. And then in the simplicity of their company, you experience it. It's just you and them. No crowds.

Instead of finding inspiration in the stupidity and ignorance you judge in questioners; the clever insults of the guru's reply; and the laughter of the audience; you would become ashamed to find yourself enjoying that form of vivisection, and turn and never go back.

But all that happens when you see and understand the true Saint.

I might insult you with these words. I might be an affront to your beliefs.

But the True Saint would not say such things at all. And that is why they are invisible to you, though they are around.

You have to become meek and submissive to that gentle voice inside yourself that you have ignored and pushed away for so long you can't hear her anymore. You've got to befriend her, and then she will reveal the true Saints around you. She will bring you to them. They will come to you.

Pray for that. Pray to be so humbled, and if need be humiliated, that you are so low you can hear her and find a true Saint. She is wisdom.


The true Saint will befriend you. They will invite you to their home, right here on earth. And you will have them into it home also. Many times.

@ Spence

Imagine some of these saints meeting each other all having that desire to be more humble than the other.

@Spence, Hi.

Thanks you for taking time to type out the long sermon but honestly I won't read it for I know you nether have the vision nor the bandwidth to recognise a true master. None of us have this actually.

The categories are just your judgements basis
the figure you have built in your mind through studying the literature available about the Satguru; just as we all do in our own ways.

But neither God nor his physical manifestation (perfect master) is bound by our concept of what or who a perfect master ought to be like and what 'physical' attributes and qualities he should display. He can manifest as Kabir the Weaver or Ravidas the Cobbler or even Jeff Bezos worth a $140bln+ . It's His wish.

You and I or anyone else do/does not dictate God and his physical manifestation.

Sd/-

Sath_Path

@Spence, Hi

Continuing on my earlier response to your lengthy revert to me

Even an imperfect master may display all the attributes, inspire in the same way, evoke the same feeling in one as what you prescribe to a perfect master.

Also no shortage of spiritual master (including imperfect too) preaching about shabd even initiating disciples to the 5 words.

So stick to what appeals to you. Hold your views recognising the inherent limitations.

@Trevor
Like your masters Huzur and GSD?

All the way back to Melchisadeck and long before
without making new karma, whatever THEY do,
always out. of kal's scope

777

Posted by: ❤️💥❤️ | March 06, 2020 at 05:56 PM

@777

I don't doubt what you say though I am not initiated into santmat. But I do appreciate that it's far more reasonable, believable and equitable that the forms world religions are at the moment.

Honestly, My post was just to draw out the hypocrisy of brother Spence where now he confirms GSD being GIHF but in tens of his other posts calls him just a stage actor, just another fallible human who is already a victim of greed and ego. And why just GSD? In one of his posts he has referred to one great past RSSB master a beautiful swindler

@Satsangis
So Good Sweet Feel. going there. always, Being there already

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsXzUVan2M&list=OLAK5uy_kYix5_bxBCzb39IzSaJ6GT6uTV2MQuCpo&fbclid=IwAR1Bf8yr15XLixBYATEtA5lpvzoTpZwmge7fPVHBe2vsFzLmdvtV7XgpEdg&app=desktop

777

Hi Sonia
"I think people are the energy but the Source is energy. Meaning it doesn’t judge."

When an innocent child says what they see we don't say the child judges. They are just speaking what they see. But adults teach that child to be silent. Or to say different words. The adults teach that child about self - interest. And about judging.

Adults who have no problem opining night and day in their own self - interest tell that child not to judge, who has no capacity to judge. But in truth neither do the adults.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | March 07, 2020 at 04:08 AM

Right now all that’s going through my head is the theme song to MASH. There’s a point where nothing matters. All these words, ideas, beliefs. At the end of the day we all sleep. At the end of life we all die. Whatever helps you get through the day and through life is what people cling to.

But in the end, we’re all dead.

It’s true, Hope is the dragon eating its tail. Nobody really cares about any of us except ourselves. We didn’t choose to live in a world of pain. If there is some fairy tale God out there he’s doing a really shit job.

I feel like religion is just one lengthy exercise in making excuses for the “Creator”.

I don’t believe in God. I’ve never seen any proof. Sure, there are different types of energy, but there is no all seeing, all knowing God who bothers “himself” with life in this world... or any other world if there are any.

Imagination is a very powerful thing.

Life finally starts making sense once you realize there is no God.

some fairy tale God out there he’s doing a really shit job.
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | March 07, 2020 at 01:50 PM

That shitter is YOU
YOU created all this

Stop the mind as long there might be an offer and U will know
killing the body is stipid when the mind is the culprit
and will stay with you

Kill the bastard and fill yourself with pleasure

777

Well... I guess I should leave a little room for doubt since technically I’m an agnostic and I think Hazelton’s book is more grounded in reality than anything I’ve read in a long time.

An agnostic is somebody, not at all interested in this kind of stuff!

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
You wrote
"The categories are just your judgements basis
the figure you have built in your mind through studying the literature available about the Satguru; just as we all do in our own ways."

Rather than attempt to mind read or project your own approach onto me, may I suggest you would be better served taking an inquisitive strategy?

Something like this...
'Spence, I don't believe any of the shit you wrote. I believe my own shit. But just out of curiosity, to go maybe a microscopic degree beyond my own shit, which by the way I consider a waste of time, and hate doing, just what is the basis for your descriptions of the True Saints? I won't pretend to have that answer, since I don't know you, can't read your mind, and I don't pretend I'm all knowing... "

And my answer wold be that the answer was already contained above.

When you meet such a person, your standards will change. It is because I have that I write as I do. Without that association I would not have written those things. I would have no experience to base those statements upon. But it is only association. I'm not inventing the weather. I'm just describing what I've witnessed.

There is no other way. So just be receptive and let life be your teacher. Submit to life, honor life.

If you don't believe such people exist, then for you they won't. If you want to find such a friend and are humble before creation, before the divine in yourself, truly submit to the divine in earnest, then the curtain will be pulled back. You will do the pulling, and the True Saints will be right there.

Your job is not to belittle different views from your own. nor to swallow them. It is to use them to investigate your own thinking. And your experience. Have you met anyone yet who even comes close to the description I've given? They are out there.

Regardless of whether they have power over your soul, which they would never exercise, these are the sort of noble, devoted, inclusive, humble and kind folks in whose company we are healed and inspired to grow.

Hi Um
You wrote
"Imagine some of these saints meeting each other all having that desire to be more humble than the other."

Real humility has nothing to do with anyone else. It's not a competition. Between you and the Lord, there is no one else. So your humility and submission is in private to the divine within yourself, and the divine you see in all others. We are serving the perfection deep within everyone.

What you have in the true Saints is universal brotherhood / sisterhood. So their humility and service is towards everyone, noble and ignoble. They are more interested in helping heal the poor and sick than spending any time at all with those in positions of power or authority. They have communion with those who are receptive. That's where they find God's love in abundance. And they are the servants of those who are weak, disabled, forgotten. They are the hidden bricks that hold up the entire building invisibly. They are the foundation of this creation and every other.

Hi Trevor
You wrote
"Honestly, My post was just to draw out the hypocrisy of brother Spence where now he confirms GSD being GIHF but in tens of his other posts calls him just a stage actor, just another fallible human who is already a victim of greed and ego. And why just GSD? In one of his posts he has referred to one great past RSSB master a beautiful swindler"

You may have missed something, or maybe I have.

"now he confirms GSD being GIHF"

Can you please point to where I have recently, aka "now.." made this claim?

There are true Saints, but they assume no title, no position of authority. Never allow themselves to be called guru and certainly not Master, nor even Satsangi. Just brother or sister, or simply friend.


As for someone being God in Human Form, each of us has that within us. We should all strive to live up to it, to become that. The real Master is that divinity within ourselves.

Hi Sonia
You wrote
"Right now all that’s going through my head is the theme song to MASH. There’s a point where nothing matters."

That is just one single point. We live in a multi - verse.
Ask you mind why it's choosing to rest on that point. Since you can pick any available point, why not try on a few others?

But if "nothing matters" works for you, live that dream. You could build a home in that. A tiny one where there is nothing to loose.

But if there is nothing to loose, why not think big? Believe in unicorns! Nothing matters, right? Then what would you like to matter?
Something inide you does matter. Try to find it. Hidden treasure.

You wrote " I think Hazelton’s book is more grounded in reality than anything I’ve read in a long time." But if nothing matters maybe that reality is not a good thing.

How about a reality where something does actually matter? What would that look like? ;)

"At the end of life we all die."
Deep.

Really, what does it matter if you won't be here then?

You are alive today. That's s miracle!

You are here now.

That shitter is YOU
YOU created all this

Stop the mind as long there might be an offer and U will know
killing the body is stipid when the mind is the culprit
and will stay with you

Kill the bastard and fill yourself with pleasure

777

Posted by: 🤶. 7.🤶 | March 07, 2020 at 04:26 PM

What mind? To many in here mind is just that shitty grey lump with billions of fired up neurons.

Go brain dead is it? Is that the solution? 🤣🤣

Life finally starts making sense once you realize there is no God.

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | March 07, 2020 at 01:58 PM

Good for you. I hope this will be an unshakable belief you hold.

I don’t believe in God. I’ve never seen any proof.

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | March 07, 2020 at 01:56 PM

Someone in here made this interest remark - countering this.

There is no tomorrow for nobody has ever seen proof of a tomorrow.

Is there gonna be 8th March 2020 @ Sonia?


@Spence,

I like the idea of unicorns. 😊

🦄🦄🦄

Someone in here made this interest remark - countering this.

There is no tomorrow for nobody has ever seen proof of a tomorrow.

Is there gonna be 8th March 2020 @ Sonia?


Posted by: Trevor Smith | March 07, 2020 at 07:52 PM


I guess we’ll have to wait and see...

You may have missed something, or maybe I have.

"now he confirms GSD being GIHF"

Can you please point to where I have recently, aka "now.." made this claim?

There are true Saints, but they assume no title, no position of authority. Never allow themselves to be called guru and certainly not Master, nor even Satsangi. Just brother or sister, or simply friend.


As for someone being God in Human Form, each of us has that within us. We should all strive to live up to it, to become that. The real Master is that divinity within ourselves.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | March 07, 2020 at 06:52 PM

As for your claim.... I leave it to you to find out in which post of yours you make it. Tough job maybe because your posts are not just lengthy and numerous but....

Maybe there is are a couple of lessons to learn for you in your search.


You are alive today. That's s miracle!

Posted by: Spence Tepper | March 07, 2020 at 07:14 PM

Miracle!!! Absolute bizarre and detached from reality; when life is a curse and for humans also an opportunity.

And being alive today, tomorrow or until one such moment being just a consequence/effect.

@ Spence

Bricks ….

It reminds me of some words he said to me and that stayed with me ever since:

To give credit to the bricks in the roof, you need bricks in the foundation.
For this creation to continue these bricks are needed.

On asking what happens to those bricks in the foundation … he, on a low voice said, that the whole building remains part and parcel of the creator.

Since that day all worries about why some are called and others not have gone.

Some saints are here to have this creation going, set examples of doing good, make life more comfortable for fellow human beings and others show the path how to leave it all behind.

Hi Trevor
You wrote
"And being alive today, tomorrow or until one such moment being just a consequence/effect."

But what is the cause? And what is the effect?

If the effect is that you marvel at the incredible awesomeness of reality, then life is not a curse for you at all.

You wrote
" when life is a curse and for humans also an opportunity."

Why only an opportunity for humans?

What system of belief do you operate from?

What is your chosen reality?

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.