Open Thread 29 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

Remember, off-topic comments should go in an Open Thread.

This hasn't been happening recently, as some commenters have been using blog posts as a "chat room," basically, so from now on I'm going to vow to do better at not approving comments submitted on a regular blog post if the comment doesn't deal with the subject of the post. 

If you don't see a recent comment, or comments, posted, it's because you've failed to follow the above rule. Keep to the subject of a blog post if you leave a comment on it. And if you want to use this blog as a "chat room," do that in an open thread.

As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks on someone are an exception. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Sonia I have also over the years realized that many many people come to the master and the path because of their needs and wants and not for true spiritual purposes. Mostly they are worldly desires. The true lover is rare and extremely fortunate.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hey s*

Always cool to see/read a sufi story!

Afterwards I went to the bookcase and grabbed a book and opened it at this page:

“The Gamble of the Self”

‘Real prayer can only be yours
When you have staked and gambled yourself away
And your essence is pure.
Then “a joy of the eyes” are your prayers
And no separation remains,
For knower and known are one and the same”.

from Shabistari The Secret Rose Garden.

Best wishes

[Sonia]

Sonia I have also over the years realized that many many people come to the master and the path because of their needs and wants and not for true spiritual purposes. Mostly they are worldly desires. The true lover is rare and extremely fortunate.

Posted by: Jen from Austin Texas | February 17, 2020 at 01:13 PM

Thanks for your comment, Jen. A lot of people don’t understand me or my behavior or even what is at the heart of my struggle with GSD and this path. I don’t even understand myself but I’m beginning too.

I had tremendous anxiety and panic attacks while I was more active with the path. And then I got upset with Gurinder and thought, well that proves the path was causing my panic attacks. And yes, the panic attacks did stop when I “left” the path. But a few things have hit me recently. One, that I never once felt afraid when I was in his presence. Just when I wasn’t. And two, I never could really leave. I’ve been stuck in limbo. It’s like you’re expected to make up your mind—either you follow the path or you don’t. But it’s just not that simple in my case. Without the master in my life, I’m not depressed or anxious (sad sometimes) but mostly I just don’t have any enthusiasm about life. I’d be perfectly content to just sleep for the rest of my life—sort of a peaceful alternative and a way to fade away if it weren’t for everyone around me yelling at me that I need to “live my life”. I’m still trying to make sense of things. I realize now that I’ll never be happy without him but I also don’t want the anxiety back in my life. I’m just trying understand. And it isn’t as simple as it should be. One day it will probably all make sense. Perhaps there’s a connection that I don’t understand. But I no longer feel the need to keep fighting it. I just have to work through the fear. And try to understand what’s causing it.

[s*]

Dear Sonia,
The fear is inside us and also the love..
I think it comes to the survice when being in Dera.
In my case the talking about chaurasi in the way it's done..,I can not stommic that.
I know that now..so no fear is needed..
The outer Master also touches and maybe the love one feels can not given a place..
I often felt even jalours..Maharaji told me that Masters are jalours too..
They want us to love Him(in a higher way,not physical) also

[s*]

Thank you Tim,
I am going to get that The Secret Rose Garden book
Seems beautiful..

[Sonia]

Hi s*

I understand. But it’s not about the physical. I mean it is but it isn’t. Actually, I think the more lifetimes one has had, the stronger their ego becomes. More lifetimes = a more stubborn mind??

Of course, when you’re in the physical presence, his power is strong enough to calm the fears but he doesn’t take your ego away completely... so Q&A with Gurinder usually goes something like this https://youtu.be/Ow0lr63y4Mw

Actually, I think the longer one stays in these realms and has multiple lifetimes not returning home that the ego mind actually recognizes Sant Mat as its death. And I think that’s where the panic comes from. They say it’s an individual path, and unfortunately it truly is.

[Sonia]

The ego mind would rather die in this life and live another life than to be extinguished. It’s like a parasite. Sometimes it’s smarter than its host and to use a medical analogy—has mutated to become immune to vaccination or medicine. But that all sounds very morbid. So, just go back to the Bob Hope clip because that was pretty funny and spot on.

[s*]

Hi Sonia,
Maybe(sure) it's not about the master but the Love inside of ourselves that is touched.
That is how I see it.
Not easy to describe especially not in a different language (for me)
So.. I love ''my''spiritual path..
The seeking for ''God''.. our real being,we are all from that source..
That in fact is what we are.
Masters touches that ,..that is why devoties love him but in fact it's the inspiration and our own
love inside that brings us back..to our origine..
So I feel it .
But maybe everything is different then one can know /think from here..
Some people who has no believe or even longing for more then the physical have beautiful NDE soo..
what do we really know??
''Not knowing'' is logical from here also..

[Jen]

Sonia: "so Q&A with Gurinder usually goes something like this..."

Loved the video. Would be wonderful if Gurinder actually yelled out "Stop It". He should watch the video he could learn a lot from it. Imagine people lining up to ask their same old boring questions and he yells at them Just Stop It !!

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Sonia funny clip. One difference is that the master gives us the prescription to solve the issues. He doesn’t just tell us to stop it. If we take the medicine the way he has prescribed it does all stop. (Maybe lessen at first then eventually stops) Believe me it does.

[Sonia]

I think I’m beginning to understand the purpose of a living Master.

I didn’t think it was necessary for quite some time. But your own mind can’t conquer an ego that has had lifetimes to strengthen itself.

But you can’t conquer the ego with anything that makes it feel threatened. Understanding that is so critical. The ego serves two purposes—fear and attack. If you were born a natural fighter... you’ll have to somehow use that in a way to overcome the power your ego has over you. When you attack someone it just makes their ego stronger... if they already have a strong ego.

I never thought I had a strong ego because all the things in this world that we typically associate with the ego—power, fame, money—just don’t appeal to me. But there’s a lot I just didn’t understand... about myself and about controlling the mind.

[Sonia]

Sonia: "so Q&A with Gurinder usually goes something like this..."

Loved the video. Would be wonderful if Gurinder actually yelled out "Stop It". He should watch the video he could learn a lot from it. Imagine people lining up to ask their same old boring questions and he yells at them Just Stop It !!
Posted by: Jen | February 18, 2020 at 04:07 PM

I’m sure he’s seen it. Maybe that’s why he adopted the “just do it” philosophy. 😆

My husband taught me a love of nature. That’s one thing I’ve learned from him. The South African landscape is so beautiful as I’m sure you remember. ;)

I remember as a child visiting my grandparents who had such a love of nature and spent so much time cultivating their vegetable gardens and flower gardens. They took such care in selecting every rose bush that lined their long driveway and every tree they planted on their lawn. Every time I visited them they would take me on a tour of their property to tell me about each species of plant and they’d just marvel at it. I was a teenager and all I can remember thinking was heaven was so much more beautiful. I don’t know where that came from but I was somewhat disappointed with this world from an early age. However, now I really appreciate it—I’ve learned to appreciate it thanks to my husband—just seeing this world through his eyes. But I still hate bugs. 😝

[Sonia]

On another subject altogether—the other word that breaks the i before rule—Caffeine.

Caffeine is a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant of the methylxanthine class. It is the world's most widely consumed psychoactive drug. Unlike many other psychoactive substances, it is legal and unregulated in nearly all parts of the world.

I’m curious as to why RSSB hasn’t banned this drug. I’m not saying they should... well, not necessarily but it is incredibly powerful. More for for some than others.

A therapist once told me that all of her bipolar patients said caffeine was their drug of choice even above alcohol. I just found that really bizarre. And she is a very highly respected LCP in her specialized field.

Anyway, curious what others think about this legal drug...

[Sonia]

Sonia funny clip. One difference is that the master gives us the prescription to solve the issues. He doesn’t just tell us to stop it. If we take the medicine the way he has prescribed it does all stop. (Maybe lessen at first then eventually stops) Believe me it does.

Posted by: Jen from Austin Texas | February 18, 2020 at 05:06 PM

Hope so.

How long have you been a Satsangi? Were you initiated by Charan or Gurinder?

[Sonia]

OK, I brought up the caffeine thing because I drink way too much coffee in the winter time and it messes with my sleep cycle. I can’t sleep so I’m going to finish my book, ‘Atomic Habits’ that I just started.

Hopefully I’ll be able to fall asleep after that. 🙄

[Steve Kinsella]

Actually, I think the longer one stays in these realms and has multiple lifetimes not returning home that the ego mind actually recognizes Sant Mat as its death. And I think that’s where the panic comes from. They say it’s an individual path, and unfortunately it truly is.

Posted by: Sonia | February 18, 2020 at 09:36 AM

Wasn't it you who a few days back distinguished between mind and ego? So now what is this ego mind?

Does mind ever die? If yes when and how does it occur? Can any come confirm his mind is dead?

I don't suffer from any panic attacks. Many many followers of santmat I know don't suffer from panic too. Is their and my ego mind dead then as a result of santmat?

[Steve Kinsella]

his power is strong enough to calm the fears but he doesn’t take your ego away completely...

Posted by: Sonia | February 18, 2020 at 09:36 AM

Not his job to take away your ego. Rather it's for you to give it up. Surrender you have to voluntarily.

[Sonia]

Steve,

I have to be really careful not to put Gurinder in the same category as people like you. People with very little empathy or understanding. You give Sant Mat a bad name.

[Sonia]

Steve,

I don’t think GSD would approve of your self righteous insensitivity. That’s one thing I’m learning—Satsangis don’t always reflect the love of their master.

[Sonia]

I’m going through a “process” right now. Something I believe GSD understands and is compassionate towards. So, don’t judge me.

[Sonia]

Steve,

I’ve made a conscious decision to take my ego out of things and try to see things for what they truly are. I believe that GSD is far more loving and compassionate than I realized. And I’m not going to let people like you disturb that belief.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Steve
You write
"Not his job to take away your ego. Rather it's for you to give it up. Surrender you have to voluntarily."

I don't Think we can do it alone. I think the True Saint helps you, gives you the strength. So the lines are not as cleanly drawn. We certainly have our job. But we need help there.

Everyone is attached to things, people. We have our addictions to food, each other, disfunction. Some are addicted to acquiring land and playing the stock market. We have to surrender all that. The true Saint has no addictions. they live simply. They are present and available. That's what purity does. It makes us present, available, with a depth of resource to help and to give.

[Spence Tepper]

The True Saints have no preoccupations. And they don't encumber you with any. They lighten your burden, not increase it.

[Jen]

About what we observe in so called Saints...

It was Carl Jung who said it first: “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves”.

Everyone is our mirror. Our own reflection in others shows us not only who we are, but also how to be better.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Steve
You asked
"Does mind ever die? If yes when and how does it occur? Can any come confirm his mind is dead?"

You can reduce anxiety provoking thoughts, you can learn to turn down the awareness of all that. And then the brain will help by switching them off completely from consciousness. And then the consciousness becomes like a still Lake. You are there setting it and now setting through it. And so much is there!

All that happens after thoughts cease. When thoughts cease, awareness really takes off. And such waves if freedom and love!

That's practice and discipline. Largely physiological, but you can control it with mental practice, meditation.

[Spence Tepper]

Oops typo, should read
"You are there seeing it and now seeing through it. And so much is there!"

[Sonia]

About what we observe in so called Saints...

It was Carl Jung who said it first: “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves”.

Everyone is our mirror. Our own reflection in others shows us not only who we are, but also how to be better.
Posted by: Jen | February 19, 2020 at 05:17 PM

Very true indeed...

[Sonia]

The True Saints have no preoccupations. And they don't encumber you with any. They lighten your burden, not increase it.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 19, 2020 at 04:06 PM

Also, very true. And it’s up to us to be willing to accept their help.

[Dungeness]

@ I’m curious as to why RSSB hasn’t banned this drug. I’m not saying they
@ should... well, not necessarily but it is incredibly powerful. More for for
@ some than others

Ah, so that was the secret of Maharaji's energy. He always
seemed to be having a cup of coffee... or perhaps it was a
reminder there's hope for all addicts.

[Sonia]

@ I’m curious as to why RSSB hasn’t banned this drug. I’m not saying they
@ should... well, not necessarily but it is incredibly powerful. More for for
@ some than others

Ah, so that was the secret of Maharaji's energy. He always
seemed to be having a cup of coffee... or perhaps it was a
reminder there's hope for all addicts.

Posted by: Dungeness | February 19, 2020 at 10:46 PM

🤣

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Sonia I was initiated by Babaji many many years ago. By the way, I’m the same age as you are... 47 yrs

[X17]

The True Saints have no preoccupations. And they don't encumber you with any. They lighten your burden, not increase it.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 19, 2020 at 04:06 PM

How do they lighten our burden btw? Isn't our karmas (load) for us to bear with true saints having nothing to do with taking over them

[manjit]

Hey s* and Sonia!!

Thanks for watching the video and your comments, that's very kind of you both 😊

Take care, manjit

[Spence Tepper]

Hi X17
You asked
"How do they lighten our burden btw? Isn't our karmas (load) for us to bear with true saints having nothing to do with taking over them

No one experiences their Karma in a vacuum. They are interconnected. The true Saint is above all that. When they take some small pinch of fabric between their fingers and lift, the cloth all around rises to. It's inspiration that does this. And many people can inspire. They lighten your burden.