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February 03, 2020

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Sonia yes I will pretty soon. Thank you for your support. I reckon I will still feel the same way about you regardless of whether I’m initiated or not.

Steve, you’re such a smart one...

Posted by: sonia | February 07, 2020 at 08:35 PM

Tell me something new this lovely weekend here.

What’s your definition of a Saint?

Posted by: sonia | February 04, 2020 at 07:48 AM

Georgy

Why the lengthy post? It's simple

A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.

It certainly isn't (1) what that Pastor Spence rants often. Look up earlier posts. His fakery has been called out and (2) those that the stupid Vatican decides as one. You know the Mother Teresa types.

If the Sant Satguru doesn't live up to your image, one solution could be to become an even truer Saint in your own right. Shape yourself into the Perfect Master, according to your ideal.

Posted by: anami | February 07, 2020 at 07:17 PM

Wow. Here mere mortals with zero understanding of God and his physical manifestation (Perfect Master) will now set standards of God (since perfect master is God) and benchmark is...... According to one's ideals.

How hilarious.

Enjoy your weekend and Goodluck with your ideals.

Shalini

You will be accepted and be far better satsangi than Sonia ever was. I can see that immediately.

Sonia is unfortunately a mess , disloyal, and a liar - these are not good satsangi qualities, that much I know.

I’m still a way off too, cos I got a nasty side like Sonia (not v lady like) but luckily far more resilient stable mind. Is she still crying over guru?

Ok Steve - yip sounds like you know more than me. You right too much blah blah from me...keep it simple. I appreciate your definition - thanks.

Personely,
I love my Maharaji..
not the teachings..
I love vegan and clean life..
And also Sufi's..
Hazrat Inayat Ghan is sublime..
Loving and very wise

Sonia yes I will pretty soon. Thank you for your support. I reckon I will still feel the same way about you regardless of whether I’m initiated or not.

Posted by: Shalini | February 07, 2020 at 09:44 PM

For your sake, I hope Shalini isn’t your real name.

A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.

Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 07, 2020 at 10:31 PM

You could not possibly be more wrong. GSD has said numerous times that the Master doesn’t take on the karma of the disciples. He said the Master can in rare cases if he so chooses but as a rule does not. This is GSD’s Sant Mat 2.0

It’s up to you to meditate and work off ALL of your karma. He also said just following that that the Masters are karmaless. He said this as he was talking during evening meeting. He was very sick with cancer and looked very sick from the cancer treatments. He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his.

Steve, he does NOT take on karmas according to Gurinder. If that’s what you’re expecting your master to do than you’d best look for a new one.

Ok Steve - yip sounds like you know more than me. You right too much blah blah from me...keep it simple. I appreciate your definition - thanks.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 08, 2020 at 12:09 AM

I don’t feel bad when I say that you are literally, without a doubt my very least favorite person on the entire earth. And I’m including all the sadists and criminals in with that.

Tom Curtis would never have stooped to come proselytize his psycho concoctions on a pseudo atheists anti RSSB haters site.

Pity that Spence doesn't emulate the type of spirit and simplicity of pure humility and deeper integrity in human nature that his mentor portrayed.

He'd do far better to take a more positive humble approach and try be as good a disciple as Tommy was than the pseudo bunkum gobbledygook that gets so lavishly and extraneously put out like endless streams of schizo fodder to try making himself look good in the eyes of the anti GSD / RSSB exers club, and his new found gaggle of pseudo 'saints'.

Posted by: Whodunit | February 07, 2020 at 04:21 PM

One thing I’m 100% certain of—no decent, loyal Satsangi would come to this site either.

This is for people who are honest about who they are and honest about their skepticisms.

It’s like you’re Amish and just walked into a Best Buy to condemn everyone for using electricity.

I don’t how many times I have to say this, but there literally is an ‘I Hate Church of the Churchless’ site. There is a link provided to it on this page.

Is she still crying over guru?
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 07, 2020 at 11:56 PM

OMG, right now he looks like a Saint compared to you... and you know I feel about him, so that says a lot about you.

From here on out I’m not posting another thing or responding to another comment on Open Thread.

Open Thread is like the National Enquirer compared to Brian’s blog post articles. I’m sticking strictly on topic with Brian’s posts because they are constructive, intelligent and helpful.

Sorry, last post EVER on Open Thread (and I won’t be checking back to read your comments either).

Whodunit,

Just to make the analogy complete:

You’re like an Amish person who drove to Best Buy in his Tesla to condemn everyone shoppping there for using electricity.

That is the best analogy possible for every Satsangi or Satsangi wannabe who visits this site will the sole intention of criticizing others who don’t agree with RSSB or to criticize others for “not believing” and expressing their opinions here. It’s OK for anyone to not be a believer. You should respect that.

@ Spence

The video makes it clear these 1:1 relationships sure but what I don't understand is, why one shares it with others.

If a person dies and an memorial is made and shared with those attending the funeral, that, I do understand but not that it is put on YOUTUBE and used in here.... for what reason?

My 22 year old nephew (cousin's son) from Canada produced this half hour video, funded by some Canadian governmental organisation or other, on the subject of mental health. I was quite blown away by it. Very touching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHaGM1-MOU

Hi Um
A memorial helps us remember. And when we remember, we may share memories of our beloved friends. It's a very natural process.

Also, Um
Georgy had asked about True Saints living among us, and wanted survival reverences. I had mentioned my Rock and Roller musician friend, Robb, but Georgy pressed for more. Then I referred to Brain Ji, and Finally the video of Tommy.

Someone mentioned that Statsangis don't write poetry about God and their own Master. But I think they do. These True Saints can be found, if we are receptive to them.

They never accept positions of authority, with titles, like "Teacher" or "Guru." They would allow anyone to worship them. So most people assume they can't be a true Saint.

Most assume that A Saint is in an organization with a name badge "Saint". And that other people point to them and say "God In Human Form."

But no true Saint does any such thing. Their power of compassion is unbelievable, and to wield it they allow no distinctions between themselves and those around them.

They destroy religious prejudices and replace them with love.

Oops typo.
Should read "they would NEVER allow anyone to worship them."

Interesting!!

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/no-religious-divisions-people-pray-together-at-shaheen-bagh

Georgy Thank you for your kind words towards me. With regards to Sonia, she is different and everyone is. I just hope her brash behavior and commenting isn’t taken seriously.
And just some advise for you too. Calm down with the cuss words it’s not needed to make your point. Your comments are hard to read with so much cussing in them. Absolutely not needed. You can say the same thing without the expletives and in a nice manner.

Hi Steve
You wrote
"A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin."

I'm sorry this is wrong. The true Saint is not his physical Manifestation.

Hi Manjit,
This is indeed a very touching video!
What a brave people to tell so welll and openly about their problems.
I think most humans recognice themselves also in them.
Thanks for posting.

@ spence

Having said all the things you wrote, about memorandums and that you were asked to come up with some answer on who is a saint, etc the questions still remain.

"Wow. Here mere mortals with zero understanding of God and his physical manifestation (Perfect Master) will now set standards of God (since perfect master is God) and benchmark is...... According to one's ideals."

Dear Steve,

I think you misunderstood my comment, but if the orthodox approach works for you 100%, you're fortunate and I celebrate it!

@ "A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless
@ manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures
@ their home coming i.e. back to origin."

I agree with Spence. We - er, make that "I" - tend to tag
the physical manifestation as the real "form" when it isn't.
That's why Gurinder works to disabuse disciples of that
notion that He comes at death to shepherd them home.

So, when Gurinder says "I'm not coming at death..." He
means that fondly worshipped outer form doesn't but
the inner form will. It's not some scandalous departure
from RSSB 1.0 scripture as others have suggested either.
All masters will echo it.

The inner form is the Friend the disciple must manifest
within and will appear at death. Firmly established, it
remains at all times. The outer form is transient and
doesn't.

You could not possibly be more wrong. GSD has said numerous times that the Master doesn’t take on the karma of the disciples. He said the Master can in rare cases if he so chooses but as a rule does not. This is GSD’s Sant Mat 2.0

It’s up to you to meditate and work off ALL of your karma. He also said just following that that the Masters are karmaless. He said this as he was talking during evening meeting. He was very sick with cancer and looked very sick from the cancer treatments. He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his.

Steve, he does NOT take on karmas according to Gurinder. If that’s what you’re expecting your master to do than you’d best look for a new one.

Posted by: Sonia | February 08, 2020 at 01:09 AM

Sonia

If you actually think your daily meditation of a measly 2.5 hours (even over 3 lifetimes) is sufficient to 'account' for your karmic load then that is the most misplaced notion you harbour.

That often narrated - one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions - his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation.

There is only One Master. It's we the 'limited' humans who see this one master as GSD. Hazur, Soamiji, Kabir, etc etc. And there is no Santmat 2.0 or 20.0. Just because the innocuous human beings believe so....it doesn't become so.

The karmas that a Master usually doesn't interfere/tamper with generally is your destiny i.e. Pralabd Karma. Though they can, as even GSD has admitted he can, in one of the Q&A sessions in Dera.

Your understanding of GSD is super superficial. The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.

And if he say Masters are karmaless and He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his then why didn't you ask - Why the cancer then??

Do I need to look for another Master?? Na. I'm in the best hands there ever can be.

Hi Manjit,

Thank you so much for posting the link to the video your nephew from Canada produced. First of all—amazing job! Well done! And so touching. I really enjoyed watching. Despite what some people may think (🙄) I know very little—almost nothing—about schizophrenia. I know a lot about depression, anxiety and other mood disorders, it’s just I’ve never worked directly with schizophrenics. I’ve worked directly with many bipolar people, though. I really enjoyed the interview with the man who suffers from schizophrenia. They can function quite well—as well as or maybe even better than the rest of us with the right treatment.

Your understanding of GSD is super superficial. The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.

And if he say Masters are karmaless and He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his then why didn't you ask - Why the cancer then??

Do I need to look for another Master?? Na. I'm in the best hands there ever can be.

Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM

Same reason I didn’t ask him why he’s diabetic or has chronic back pain. He wasn’t born karmaless. He was diabetic from an early age. So tell me, when exactly do the Masters become karmaless? Is it day one of Masterhood or a year or two later after they’ve meditated themselves past the third region?

The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.

Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM

Should I take your utterances literally?

So, I think it’s important for a true Saint to teach is disciples to try to be as nice and kind and loving and respectful in everything they do and say towards each other as possible. Because when we humans are disrespectful and arrogant and condescending and insulting towards others it never results in anything good and almost always escalated (yes, I’m guilty). But I just don’t feel that message being spread. Maybe I’m wrong. But it seems like Satsangis sometimes act more like crusaders than seekers. It’s what pushes people away from the path. If there’s no love then there’s no God. Obviously one has to do even more than that, like live a moral and honest life and be veg and not do drugs or drink and meditate. But it should start with being kind. At least trying really hard and everyone should be able to say there sorry. I think the hallmark of a true saint is being able to say you’re sorry. Why not? Even if you did nothing wrong, if what you did (unintentionally) hurt someone else then why not apologize.

Sometimes I walk down the hall and my cat farts in front of me and I trip over him. Sometimes I fall but I always tell him I’m sorry because I’m bigger than him and I know it scared him and I accidentally stepped on his toes.

And if that’s a message GSD isn’t willing to teach in Sant Mat then I won’t be having any further conversations regarding Sant Mat.

I’m no Saint, but I’ve come to the realization that if you can’t love people then you can’t love God. You can’t even begin to know God.

Of course, this means I’m going to have to watch myself and be super nice to everyone now.

Anyway, those are my Last Thoughts on RS. Sar Bachan mentions something about Masters having the right to treat disciples harshly if it’s in their best interest. I will say no to this. I do not agree at all. No compromise on this issue whatsoever. And as long as this is a teaching of Sant Mat I will never follow it and there’s nothing left to discuss.

Typo— should read “my cat FALLS in front of me”

😹😹😹😹😹😹😹

-

"And everyone knows that “Georgy” "

What_everyone <<<<. one narcist under 10 pseudos

Cryptic Luna🌜

You may be right
I may be crazy
But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for

10? I only counted 7.

BTW, moon just entered Leo (thank God).

“February 8, 2020 — The Leo Full Moon arrives on Saturday at 11:33pm Pacific Time, reminding us to open our hearts and share our truth, without fear. In the wake of the Saturn-Pluto conjunction, the chaos of the collective is mounting, as the shadow of Mercury retrograde submerges us in confusion. In the midst of it all, the Leo Moon is now reminding us of joy—inviting us to laugh, engage in the activities we love, and embrace our pleasure, no matter what.”

Another big BTW, did you know there’s an RSSB app in the App Store?? 😂 I don’t think it’s official because it’s missing a photo of GSD but prominently displays photos of the 4 previous masters. I don’t why I even care to mention it. But apps are really cool... in general.

O—got the other 3. Serious MPD.

Interesting!!

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/no-religious-divisions-people-pray-together-at-shaheen-bagh

Posted by: s* | February 08, 2020 at 09:14 AM

Why is it interesting??? Is the interesting bit how come you see some Sikhs and Hindus at a Muslim rally and which is being probed by the authorities of being funded by a organization linked with terror

Hi Steve
You wrote
"A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin."

I'm sorry this is wrong. The true Saint is not his physical Manifestation.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 08, 2020 at 01:44 PM

Spence,

Steve is right. There is no other definition of a True Saint (Sant). It's the 'Source/Origin' and not the physical qualities / worldly attributes ( they don't head organizations, accept positions of authority with titles, full of compassion blah blah) that decides.

Even a thorough bred atheist can destroy religious prejudices and replace them with love. That doesn't make him a Saint (Sant)


Sonia yes I will pretty soon. Thank you for your support. I reckon I will still feel the same way about you regardless of whether I’m initiated or not.

Posted by: Shalini | February 07, 2020 at 09:44 PM

Shalini,

If I may ask you. At what stage was the rejection triggered? The screening session by the sevadars or by GSD himself.

I have heard, GSD hardly ever rejects these days expecting the sevadars to have filtered out all those who didn't get all boxes of checklist ticked off.

@?

A Saint is one who can. quit thinking at will, being The Creator
, The Almighty, c.q. God,
by enjoying / being The Ever persistent sweet Elixer Music

A SatGuru is a Saint able to learn U That

A Master is who just does That

777


Shalini,

I also wrote a comment about certain stuff—getting angry, being mean (posted just after the one at 2:14 AM) where I apologized to you but I don’t see it posted. Just wanted you to know. I mentioned GP in it so it may have gone straight to SPAM. Lol (even he would laugh) Poor GP...

Even a thorough bred atheist can destroy religious prejudices and replace them with love. That doesn't make him a Saint (Sant)


Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 09, 2020 at 12:28 PM

I’ll just preface this with, ‘This is going to sound crazy’ but I had this experience where I met “Kal” and he looked at me for a while and said “you’re a nice person” and then he just laughed at me. He knew that was my greatest weakness—not that I’m actually a “nice” person but that I’m so overly sensitive when people aren’t (it’s in my stars—it’s beyond exaggerated).

Anyway, if he knows what your kryptonite is, would be pretty darn helpful if a Sant did as well.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

You write
"Steve is right. There is no other definition of a True Saint (Sant). It's the 'Source/Origin' and not the physical qualities / worldly attributes"

When Steve writes that the physical master is the master, that may be for him, but it isn't so for the True Saints. In this you are both mistaken.

The Master is not the physical Master. You should have listened to your own Master's commentary on that.

The True Saint has merged with love.

There is no higher definition. And if an individual is not, then they are no true Saint.

Some of their attributes: destroying prejudice, accepting no formal authority or title, forbidding anyone to worship them as if they were God, rather than worshiping God directly, which they do in their love of Truth and compassion, which they point to, without tying God down to our self serving definitions. These qualities arise like cream on milk. Even they don't think about these attributes. This is who they are. They are whom nature made, not organizations and artificial culture bound titles and authorities.

Saints... And so Shabd pours through them, and their ability to connect Souls to Love, to Nam of the highest regions, even beyond all sounds, simply by being in their presence, or even just resonating with their words, always given as a brother or sister, never as GIHF, which is just a way for Satsangis who have lost their way to give themselves authority, is evident to those to can see.

Shalini,

If I may ask you. At what stage was the rejection triggered? The screening session by the sevadars or by GSD himself.

I have heard, GSD hardly ever rejects these days expecting the sevadars to have filtered out all those who didn't get all boxes of checklist ticked off.

Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 09, 2020 at 12:51 PM

The rejection came from the sevadars and it was not for reasons related to the vows(as one would think) it was actually quite unrelated to me or anything I have done or will do. I know it is just an excuse as my time to get initiated has not come. I know this is for me To learn to want it more and appreciate its value when I do get it. We only see what is happening on the surface and come to conclusions we have no idea what the Master is doing or how we are being prepared behind the scenes.

Sonia apology happily accepted (we can forget anything even happened) provided you don’t do it again. Deal??

Sonia apology happily accepted (we can forget anything even happened) provided you don’t do it again. Deal??

Posted by: Shalini | February 09, 2020 at 04:28 PM

Sure 👌

@Spence

The excerpt from 1 Corinthians below was taught to us over and over again growing up. We had pictures and frames of it hanging in our homes. Growing up Christian, especially in a WASP culture makes it difficult to embrace cultural differences in expressing love that are so foreign to your experience and upbringing. I do agree that a lot of times miscommunication happens when people don’t understand each other’s cultures. Like it or not, culture has a lot to do with how we communicate. So, some people may think you sound “syrupy” and “false” but your language and way of speaking is easy for me to identify with because I grew up in a similar environment. It’s not false. It’s just how we were trained. It’s how we think and the example put forth for us. It’s unreasonable to expect someone to retrain themselves culturally. We are who we are.

I think in Indian culture, it’s very much accepted and expected to bow before another and to feel the need to be beaten down or put in your place in order to grow spiritually. If that’s a culturally accepted custom, then one would most likely have no issue with it whatsoever. One wouldn’t see it as offensive. However, when one is from a COMPLETELY different culture and background it’s not easily understood or accepted. I don’t believe that the Indian culture is anymore enlightened than our Western (esp. WASP) culture and visa versa, but it’s still a barrier nonetheless.

Kal must have laughed his as off knowing I would have Gurinder as a Master. He must have thought, “easy win for me”.

..............
1 Corinthians 13 (from the Bible for those who aren’t familiar)

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love I am only a resounding gong or clanging cymbal resounding in the wind. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and can understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have faith, that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I give all I possess to the poor, and surrender my body to the flames, [2] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love has no fear; it does not worry; love keeps no records of wrongs; never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

This notion that you must pass through someone's screening list of requirements in order to approach God, that you cannot approach God accept through an intermediary organization, an official appointee of God as the Lord's official representative, with its various rules and functionaries is nothing short of an insult to the Lord.

No True Saint would dare suggest that the Lord cannot or does not hear your appeal to Him /Her, which arises within you right from Him /Her to begin with. Even before you are aware of it. Because it was God's prayer to you first.

Your deeply heartfelt prayer to God is your reflection and repetition of His /Her silent prayer first to you. God prayed first. You heard something and through your own filters, digested the sadness of separation into your version of God's prayer to you, first. You think you are distant. That you need a Guru. That's the illusion. And so you Pray back, thinking falsely you are initiating something.

You may need a teacher. And you will need to overcome your addictions and attachments, even to sadness, to fully embrace what is within you. But the only God that ever was or ever will be is in you, and you don't awaken to that believing someone else is God. That's going the wrong way with your very limited attention.

In exact opposite fashion, the True Saint helps you to see for yourself this quality, this life force of Nam within yourself. And you will see the obstacles for yourself. You don't need an organization giving you more obstacles. And the Lord is right there with you, not in any organization and its artificial rules.

God is within, intimately, as part of your own nature, part and parcel of your deepest hidden self, working with you, the only life that is in you. The only consciousness in you.

It's already there. There is no connection needed. You are it. It/He/She is you. The True Saint helps you bring it forth. They are within you, you will see their radient form one day, but not to worship them. You are both worshipping the Spirit, not any human being. And your reunion within is simply to celebrate the joy that you have made great progress towards the Father/Mother of all. They are already your friend. You never needed to pass a test. Yes, you have your work to do. Yes, stages. Yes the meditation, but no, not worshipping an authority, worshipping an organization, worshipping a Guru as some graven idol, no stage actors. Nothing like that.

In the Lord's bedroom we don't wear clothes. He /She doesn't ask you to take a test first before making love or to make love first to His /Her servant.


Nature is drawn to nature. So make you appeal within, in all sincerity. That alone is the first stage of listening to God. Not after you pray. The prayer itself that you think you are making is the result of having heard God, in some way or other.

But prostrating yourself before another human being? Before an organization's rules? As if God could reject a part of himself /herself? Ludicrous. A work of self - serving organizations and their stage actors. You wrote your own initiation requirements, you failed yourself.

But in God's realm, He/She can't wait for you to jettison all that as layers. The requirements for initiation themselves are a corruption. You will have to leave all those trappings behind.

Don't wear clothes to make love. There is nothing you can put on that will give you greater freedom than to toss all those mental constructs, organizations, worldly authorities, and stage actors away.

You just need A True Friend who has gone the entire way to help you understand, and as a living example, to believe enough to do your own work and see for yourself. So you have the example right there with you, nd they are already here waiting for you to open your heart.


Anyway, it’s not necessarily how we speak in our everyday language with friends, but it’s how you expect ministers and parishioners to speak. It’s just cultural. Very, very few of my satsangi friends (if any) were raised in a Protestant faith. Catholicism would have been an easier convert to Punjab culture...

@Spence,

Actually, I don’t know what your background was before Sant Mat, but the way you speak and how you share a message is exactly the same as every minister I ever had growing up.

The other REALLY big one is that we were taught over and over and over again not to now before any man. So, that’s a bit of a mind slap... I often wonder how someone like me ever wound up following a path like Sant Mat. Not a single person I grew up with or any of my family members (excluding my husband and in-laws) could even begin to understand the customs and way of thinking expressed in RS Sant Mat.

And this is just an objective perspective. No one I grew up with would believe that I’ve been to India 6 times in my life to see a guru. If I told them, I’d just get a blank stare. 😂

Anyway... our unique ways of communicating can divide people. Which is evident as many cultures are challenged to understand each other.

Typo—should read not to “bow” before any man...

I need to get an Android phone... the new iOS has gotten really aggressive at deciding what you really meant to say.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

You write
"Steve is right. There is no other definition of a True Saint (Sant). It's the 'Source/Origin' and not the physical qualities / worldly attributes"

When Steve writes that the physical master is the master, that may be for him, but it isn't so for the True Saints. In this you are both mistaken.

The Master is not the physical Master. You should have listened to your own Master's commentary on that.

The True Saint has merged with love.

There is no higher definition. And if an individual is not, then they are no true Saint.

Some of their attributes: destroying prejudice, accepting no formal authority or title, forbidding anyone to worship them as if they were God, rather than worshiping God directly, which they do in their love of Truth and compassion, which they point to, without tying God down to our self serving definitions. These qualities arise like cream on milk. Even they don't think about these attributes. This is who they are. They are whom nature made, not organizations and artificial culture bound titles and authorities.

Saints... And so Shabd pours through them, and their ability to connect Souls to Love, to Nam of the highest regions, even beyond all sounds, simply by being in their presence, or even just resonating with their words, always given as a brother or sister, never as GIHF, which is just a way for Satsangis who have lost their way to give themselves authority, is evident to those to can see.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 09, 2020 at 03:09 PM


Spence

You want to use many hundreds of words to a definition of a Saint be my guest.

Point being all those words are just repitition of their qualities and detailed bits of their conduct in this world.

The following 30 or so words encompasses all you say and more.

"A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin."

And Steve is also bang on in his subsequent post where he talks of there is only one master etc etc

"A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin."

And Steve is also bang on in his subsequent post where he talks of there is only one master etc etc

........


So confused right now... don’t remember hearing this. Not quite like this.

Are you sure you guys are with RSSB? Or another RS?

So confused right now... don’t remember hearing this. Not quite like this.

Are you sure you guys are with RSSB? Or another RS?

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 09, 2020 at 10:36 PM

My last post did not show up. Wanted to chime in with a good quote. Anyhow, I think that above your question was 777's post adding to Steve's.

I think I get it a little, here's what I remember:

The Living Sat Guru is not the physical body we see and hear. He is a wave of the Ocean of Love. So his flesh body is apart of this/or Kal's illusion. But His Sharoop (Radiant/True form) is so linked with/to God, one may not be able to distinguish the wave from the Ocean. (The teachings say that this can only be verified by going within)

So, the Sat Guru could be of three origins:

1. Perfect Saint descended straight from the Ocean. (Some sources attribute Christ as being one at this high level of a Saint)

2. A just about complete soul, but not quite yet Perfect, still needing to find the hidden source (Physical Saint) within Kal's Pinda division; the outer Earth.

3. or, A Satsangi who worked very hard to gain the inner Ocean's Grace to defeat Kal & his web being transported past Maha Sunn (The realm which basically separates God's realm from Kal's; an uncrossable boarder by God's Law allowing only His waves to pass in & out), by such a wave (currently Baba Ji's sharoop) leading souls onto Bhanwar Gupha, then finally to Satch Khand thus gaining the Satsangi the rank of Sant but not always commissioned to be the Chosen wave to lead future souls back to the Ocean that is all Love. But yet indeed becoming a True Saint. Those are my recollections on the RSSB teachings for the three ways True Saints
(Sat Gurus) becomee/became Saints (Gurus).

I guess another thing to consider is that GSD answers hundreds of questions a week. Maybe more, I don’t know. He’s one person that’s Master to 20+ million people. So he’s heard the same questions day in and day out for years and years. He’s answered the same questions and most likely gets pretty tired of it—I mean to the point of just really wanting to abbreviate things. I’m sure he’s sick of answering questions. Anyone with 20 million followers would be... One person heading up a “Church” of 20 million in the western world would be considered insane. And by inane, I mean insane for trying to take on such a task.

And I’m not saying any of this to be insulting to anyone. I’m just saying, it is what it is. I’m sure that the Sants of old had more than a dozen disciples but certainly not hundreds of thousands let alone millions. Add to that our ever increasing skepticism and thirst for knowledge in this “Age of Reason”.

There’s no way one is going to have an intimate relationship/1:1 with a master in this day and age unless it’s some spiritual start up. Basically the master just initiates and overseas what is being taught and makes sure everything is being managed according to his standards and wishes. I guess the master is like a living Jesus who makes sure you get home??

But even in Christianity we prayed to God “in Jesus name, Amen”.

Some people feel like a Master stands between them and god and that’s a really weird feeling. Could be an uncomfortable feeling to some if it makes you feel separate from God. These are all concepts. And some of these concepts are comfortable to some while at the same time uncomfortable to others.

That’s what always bothered me—feeling separate from God. I always felt like the Master was judging me and that would keep me from getting to God, so to speak, if I didn’t always please the Master. Like it was all his decision. It felt like he was judge and jury.

I’m not trying to offend anyone here, I’m just being honest about my experience and saying these are foreign concepts for people like me (and others I’m sure). It can be very unsettling at times.

I grew up reading the Bible and with all of the beautiful passages in the Bible there is also a bunch of really scary, wacko stuff. But hearing all of those scriptures from the time I was born made me numb to anything “scary” in the Bible. It wasn’t until I left the church and then years later attended a service one day did I think, holy crap that is kinda messed up. I mean the book of revelations is like a bad acid trip and most of the Old Testament is a mixture of bizarre and disturbing.

So, I’m sure if I had been raised in a Satsangi family and had been familiar with Sant Mat concepts from an early age, they would just be words and wouldn’t be upsetting at all. I’m sure if I grew up in India surrounded by a culture of gurus it would make a lot more sense to me.

I can’t believe I’m going on and on about this. These are the types of posts people just skip over 😂 😂 😂 (understandably).

Is the Master a concept? Is God a concept? What about the Holy Spirit/Shabd?? GIHF means different things to different people. I can’t wrap my head around it. How can God be contained to one person if God is everywhere.

These are just questions. Probably annoying questions to some but they do run through my mind.

The greatest fear, is the fear of separation. There is nothing more terrifying or painful than that. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to escape on one level or another—the feeling of separation.

If you made it to this line, congratulations! It’s over!

Your understanding of GSD is super superficial. The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.

Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM

And, Steve, I’m highly offended by this statement. You don’t know me. You don’t know what experiences I’ve had and your tone in general (in all of your comments) is very self-righteous.

This notion that you must pass through someone's screening list of requirements in order to approach God, that you cannot approach God accept through an intermediary organization, an official appointee of God as the Lord's official representative, with its various rules and functionaries is nothing short of an insult to the Lord.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 09, 2020 at 06:50 PM

Maybe it's an insult to the Lord. But that's Lord wish whether he wishes to be insulted or not. And here he wants to be insulted.

Btw this very opinion of yours about the Lord being insulted is insulting God for it's an audacious display that you understand God including what he treats as an insult and what a compliment.

The other REALLY big one is that we were taught over and over and over again not to bow before any man.

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 09, 2020 at 07:12 PM

Aah such lofty are the teachings of the church.

- Don't bow before any man..... Brilliant. Jesus probably appeared as a unicorn and not man.

- Don't bow before a man....... But it's ok to not just now but even kneel before a dead man's statue nailed accross a cross.

Nice.

Brian aptly described what he felt and others seem to feel as Satsangis. They feel “special”. Like oh, these poor lost souls around me that haven’t been initiated by a perfect living master. That somehow you were so much more loved by God that you were given this grace that put you above the rest. And GSD’s inner circle (with the exception of a few) have a sense of “specialness” that is staggering.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
You are doubling down on standing behind Steve's comments
"A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin."

This is a very sweet sentiment but it is untrue. The Saint, at least as Maharaji taught, does not take the initiates Karma on himself, or at best only partially in rare instances of compassion where it must be done. The Saint does take on the responsibility to help us manage our Karmas successfully, helps us burn our own Sinchit Karma, and helps rearrange our pralabdh Karma so we can go through it with less pain, distraction and stress. No true Saint would brag that they take on all your Karma. But instead they give you the means and the support to do so largely yourself, from within.

Even by RSSB standards, Steve's statement is incorrect.

"Fate Karma you have to go through, and sinchit Karmas, if you meditate, can all be cleared in one life. If your load is not much and your meditation is all right, it can be cleared in one life. Fate Karmas you have to go through, you are going through, but sinchit Karmas which are dragging you to this world, you can burn them like a heap of grass. "
Maharaj Charan Singh, Spiritual Perspectives volume I, q and a 97, page 88.

And no, the Master is not the physical master.
" Guru Nanak says : Shabd is your real Master, and your soul is the real disciples. " This body is not the real disciple and the Master's body is not the real Master. The word, or shabd, or nam which has taken abode in the master is the real masrwr, because that shabd our man pulls is soul back to its own source. This flesh we leave here, and the Master's flesh will stay here too. The real matter is that Sheba and nam. "
Maharaj Charan Singh Ji, Spiritual Perspectives, Volume I, q and a number 492, pages 437-438.

Sometimes, 777, it does take a few words to get things clear.

No true Saint asks you to worship them. They won't allow it. This is wrong.

Oops typo... "that Shabd or Nam pulls us...."

Hi Sonia
You wrote
"Actually, I don’t know what your background was before Sant Mat, but the way you speak and how you share a message is exactly the same as every minister I ever had growing up."

I'll take it as a compliment. I'm not a preacher. I don't believe in formal religion, or any formal organization. Each of these reflects some important truths. But I believe the path is within. The Bible, the Koran, Sar Bachan, the Granth are reflections of reflections, natural processes filtered through our limited understanding.

My message is that there are those in every time and culture who have travelled the entire journey and who are here, in that condition, able to help others as well to do so.

But these individuals, the real Saints, work outside of formal organizations and formalized authority. They may be in all of those organizations as members, but never as leaders. You will never see them standing in front of an audience as a preacher. They already know the only role that matters is human being, and the only book that matters is written in our own heart, if we spend time to read it.

They are found in all religions and outside of religion. Yes a true Saint is at some point an Atheist. Because they know that artificial definitions of God, while helpful to a point, become a distraction at another point. None of them are God. And secondly, that God is at best an idea about something very real that is part of the creation... Or in which the entire creation resides. And it is in us, connecting us. Our mysterious and largely unconscious connections to this creation and each other.

I don't mind my preachiness any more. It's better to hold to something truthful, even vaguely understood, that you realize is who you are, than to pretend not to know, or to be critical without offering and way forward.

There are wonderful ways forward.

And True Friends willing to share and to help in a personal relationship. No stage actors in the True Path.

Hi Karl
You wrote
"it's an audacious display that you understand God including what he treats as an insult and what a compliment."

Sadly we are all imprisoned by our beliefs. Holy wars are the result of different people's notions about God.

If you honor your own statement, you would not judge me. You would honor the fact that you, as a limited human being, could not claim to understand God. But instead you are critical of my view. And my view is that organizations of any kind which claim to help people know God are in fact an abomination standing in the place of the friendship, the very human friendship, 1:1, with those who have gone the whole way. God's Church is this creation, and the inner temple is within you. No buildings, no texts, no Gurus, Priests, Pastors.


Rather than try to meet someone's club rules, why not sincerely open yourself to the broader experience and helpfulness of someone else?

Is our ego so big we can't accept the fact that others may be more spirituality advanced than we are? So we need a Bollywood or Hollywood stage actor, at a distance?

People claim they don't like that the RSSB master has so many disciples and therefore they have no personal relationship.

But I suggest this works perfectly for those people. They can think about God without having to do much about it. They can retain their attachments with minor adjustment. But that's ok. Every path has its first steps.

When you are ready for real food, you will have the opportunity to meet a real Saint. And to have a personal friendship with them.

I only suggest that they have already been in your life, and you have already rejected them. You wanted the movie star. But when you wear that out, when pride is no longer an adequate substitute for real intimacy, real friendship, real spirituality, then you will discover that step was already there waiting for you to look forward and see it. The stone the builders, including you, rejected in truth is the cornerstone of your own development.

"Fate Karma you have to go through, and sinchit Karmas, if you meditate, can all be cleared in one life. If your load is not much and your meditation is all right, it can be cleared in one life. Fate Karmas you have to go through, you are going through, but sinchit Karmas which are dragging you to this world, you can burn them like a heap of grass. "
Maharaj Charan Singh, Spiritual Perspectives volume I, q and a 97, page 88.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 10, 2020 at 05:54 AM

Vs

That often narrated - one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions - his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation.

The karmas that a Master usually doesn't interfere/tamper with generally is your destiny i.e. Pralabd Karma. Though they can, as even GSD has admitted he can, in one of the Q&A sessions in Dera.

Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM

Buddy Spence

Spot the differences between what Steve said on 8th Feb and you on 10th.

Words of encouragement by the Master (the extract your quote) results in a belief that MY MEDITATION will burn off my karmic account --------> you are welcome to this notion you harbour.

It's just another outcome of taking Master's utterances literally (as Steve rpoints out too even at the risk of sounding very self-righteous.)

The reality is you will not remember HIM even once unless HE/Master desires that you should and your insignificant effort (2.5hrs of daily meditation) eventually does invoke the Masters/HIS grace of clearing a whole lot of residual sanchit karmas.

But to say one's meditation clears out one's karmic ledger entirely - well it's then time to hugely cut down one's self importance.

Cheers,

Sath_Path

@Spence

Just wanted to add a comment about this:

“No true Saint would brag that they take on all your Karma. But instead they give you the means and the support to do so largely yourself, from within.”

Unless they were Jesus... just sayin’ but of course he did have his list of requirements. And it’s interesting that in Christianity, despite the idea of forgiveness there is still the acceptance of “karma”—cause and effect—you can’t escape that. So, don’t be a jerk, do what you know you should be doing (golden rule, honest, moral, pray, meditate, etc) and life won’t smack you in the face every time you turn around. Or at least not as often.

I’m like the radically irreverent true lover of God. 😄 And I did put my application in for Angel of Death—simply to piss of the “establishment”. I just feel we could improve the experience. I’d be like “Cake or eternal damnation? Oops wait, we’re all out of eternal damnation. I’m sorry, you’ll just have to settle for cake. Would you like some ice cream with that?”

That was an Eddie Izzard 2000 reference. 😂

@Mx Emoji,

Thanks. But you posted your comment here before that notice went out... 🧐

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 09, 2020 at 03:27 PM

Sonia,

Do I have Divine vision that i foresaw the notice before it was sent out ------> no such divine vision atleast in this life time.

Am I Mr Wayne of RSSB -------> No. Though I do like Bruce Wayne.

Just consider the time zones (India is ahead - by 13.5 hours I think). Considering this, do you still arrive at the same conclusion of me posting before the notice went out?

Sd/-

Sath_Path

@ Sonia
>>The greatest fear, is the fear of separation. There is nothing more terrifying or painful than that. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to escape on one level or another—the feeling of separation. <<

All or most people from the west approach santmat with "bible".
There are "bible belt" satsangis
Protestant and RK satsangis etc etc. etc.

In some communities and house holds "the feeling of seperation" has a more prominent place than in others.

In some communities children are raised with the idea that the can and have to do certain things in order to deserve, love, respect or whatever. In colder, northern climates and places that is more stressed than in warmer places. Protestantism, and especialy Calvinistic varieties are more found in the north … and … many of them, very orthodox, immigrated to the USA.

Look at the roots of mental make ups.

In Europe you can't find places with more than one or two churches but in the USA one can

Religion in the USA is definetly something quite different from Europe.

Aah such lofty are the teachings of the church.

- Don't bow before any man..... Brilliant. Jesus probably appeared as a unicorn and not man.

- Don't bow before a man....... But it's ok to not just now but even kneel before a dead man's statue nailed accross a cross.

Nice.

Posted by: Karl Simon | February 10, 2020 at 03:26 AM

What the church meant by that was Jesus was the only man anyone should bow to... so don’t bow before anyone else. I’m not saying they were right. Subservience isn’t my thing—I think if you truly love someone with all of your heart then “bowing” is ridiculous.

But you are correct, Jesus was a unicorn—a little known fact. That’s why all the crosses you see are such a ridiculous display. You can’t kill a unicorn by nailing it to a cross. C’mon people! Use your heads! The only thing that can kill a unicorn is to lock it up in a black and white room. They just sort of fade... very, very slowly... leaving behind nothing more than a pile of shimmering dust.

Just a note: I don’t think linearly all the time... maybe not even half the time. So, my comments may make you wonder what I believe. Also, a lot of times I say things just to make a point. Not that I own that belief but just trying to put it in a different context so that people think about it differently. Anyway... not that anyone cares, but here’s a brief overview on my beliefs re spirituality—as I see it today:

Do I believe in past lives? Yes

Do I care about them? Not in the least

Do I believe in karma—yes, but let’s try and keep it in this lifetime (I can’t even begin to tackle past lives—that’s what Saints are for 😅). Karma in this life is almost immediate. So, you learn quick.

Burner on the stove is red. Should I touch it? Sure, why not. G’dammit. OK, got it.

Do I believe in Sants? Yeah—they better exist cause I don’t know what I’m doing. Life without unicorns isn’t a life worth living. But they don’t have to be all prancy and fancy—unless that’s your thing.

Do I believe in hell? Yeah, I’m living in it. But I don’t do “eternal damnation”.

Do I believe in God? Yep. Can’t prove he exists to other people. I just know from the warm fuzzy feeling I get in my heart.

Do I think everyone else should think like me? Hell no. We’re all where we are at the moment—ever evolving.

It’s interesting to hear other people’s answers to these questions. Kinda like those questions you answer on fb. But with a religious tone.


@ "A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless
@ manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures
@ their home coming i.e. back to origin."

Ultimately, it's the Master's inner form that becomes the Friend
accompanying you home and who remains with you forever.
Not the outer. It's an important distinction because the outer
master is transient. He's only a placeholder for what's within.
He repeats with every talk, every interview, every breath: it's the
inner master who befriends, guides ,and protects the disciple.

Gurinder makes it even clearer when he says "How do you know
I'm not a fraud?" and "I'm not coming for you at death". His intent
is clear: you shouldn't worship what's outside. You may honor,
respect, listen with all reverence to satsangs but the goal is always
to propel you inward to find His real form. Without that experience
the mystic path devolves to blind faith. It's another religion.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

You quoted Steve in support for your claim that we don't burn Karmas

"That often narrated - one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions - his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation."

The symbolism that Steve is trying to replace here, of Master taking on all Karma is wrong, especially Sinchit Karma. And especially as Master has clearly stated we have a role to play.

But what is the point of discussing the power of Spirit, of Shabd and Nam? If you have not been living with it?

Further, you have ignored also what Maharaji wrote about the physical Master, who is not the true Master.

This is how teachings about Spirit (the Word, Shabd, Nam) degrades into worship of people, instead of worship of the Lord. And our duty to use the Spirit to destroy Karma within. The same power the Master wields, we have within ourselves to weild. And He does His job helping us to do so.

If you won't believe the very words of your own Master, of course my words will be like rain on concrete. But then perhaps words from another book which echoes and verifies these teachings will help you get woke.

"12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.…"
Paul, Romans 8:12-14

It's our job to use the Spirit /Shabd. No one else's.
You were given that connection, it is your responsibility.

" but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. "

" IF...." not pre-determined..

" by the Spirit... " using the Holy Name, Nam, Shabd, the audible spirit within all life....

YOU....that's not your master or anyone else. It's your job. You have the power in you....

"put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. "

That's worship of the Spirit within. Not worship of your Master. And that association with Spirit burns the impressions created by past deeds, thoughts and associations. The attachments, the connections. In Spirit they disappear, you can rise right up to the third region in moments, and even higher. But you still have your ball and chain to return to. Those impressions do exist in your own storehouse, the layers of your own Astral and Causal bodies. These impressions must be worn away, burned away. Shabd is that holy fire, holy light.

" 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Jesus, John 4:23-24

God isn't the flesh, 777. God is Spirit, and we are not to worship flesh, but to worship in Spirit, and in Truth.

"63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life."
Jesus, John 6:32


Worship of flesh can take you to the teachings. But from that point on, you must folliw those teachings, and learn to live in the Spirit and worship the Spirit alone to make progress. And this is why True Saints forbid worship of flesh.


Sonia,

Do I have Divine vision that i foresaw the notice before it was sent out ------> no such divine vision atleast in this life time.

Am I Mr Wayne of RSSB -------> No. Though I do like Bruce Wayne.

Just consider the time zones (India is ahead - by 13.5 hours I think). Considering this, do you still arrive at the same conclusion of me posting before the notice went out?

Sd/-

Sath_Path

Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 10, 2020 at 07:42 AM

I’m gonna let you keep playing this game because it wouldn’t be any fun to stop now. But just so you know, I counted all the jelly beans in the jar before you set it out. So, I already know how many are in the jar. It would be cheating if I “guessed”.

Anyway, thanks for the update re H6. Do you think there’s a chance it will be cancelled Mar/April? Also, did Hostel 8 Feb session get cancelled too? I’m not sure if it’s Hostel 8 but whichever one the NRIs stay at. My friend left for Feb session before it was cancelled and she’s an NRI so I just wanted to know...

Yes, I have a hard time with math. ‘Humble Pi’ by Matt Parker is a funny book about how things can go disastrously wrong if you don’t use the right units of measure in conversion... and other fun stuff. If you’re bored and want some nerdy math entertainment checkout www.standupmaths.com. 🤓

I guess the alarm is going to sound in a few hours for you. You must have a cup of chai when you wake up. I try to be vegan, but boy do I miss the chai from Dera. I’ve searched everywhere and no one makes chai half as good.

Mx Emoji,

Your new name has sort of a Sensei feel to it, like Cobra Kai (OMG, if you haven’t seen that show you should check it out). Emoji is Japanese.

“Originally meaning pictograph, the word emoji comes from Japanese e (絵, "picture") + moji (文字, "character"); the resemblance to the English words emotion and emoticon is purely coincidental.”

友だち

For the record, I’m just fine with a Master taking on all my karmas if there are any takers. No complaints here. Of course, I will try to be good. I really will. I swear. I mean it this time. 🙏

Now that's definitely a nice drop as I remember - Dera Chai!

Isn't there some court deadline approaching?

Best wishes

First, understand the nature of impurity.
If your key is bent,
the lock will not open.

I fall silent.
King Shams has come.

Rumi

777

ps My symbols are always symmetric

ps My symbols are always symmetric

Posted by: 💛🌟💛 777 💛🌟💛 | February 10, 2020 at 04:42 PM

We know, but you mix yours up! 😂

And the other commenter’s symbols are always the exact same. The artist formerly known as...

In Europe you can't find places with more than one or two churches but in the USA one can

Religion in the USA is definetly something quite different from Europe.
Posted by: Um | February 10, 2020 at 07:57 AM

Oh yeah. And growing up in the South we had very proper, dignified and civil sermons with all the classic hymns.

Now there’s a giant church in every corner and they’re unlike anything I experienced as a child. Most of them very modern buildings—affectionately termed “rock star churches” because a Sunday sermon is exactly like going to a concert. Walk in and there’s coffee, drinks, donuts like a Starbucks set up but it’s all free. Then you walk into the auditorium and it’s all dark with a band on stage and stage lights. Lots of music (pretty decent music actually) and they start preaching from People magazine... it’s a bit weird these days. Where I live now there are sooooo many churches and they are HUGE and they offer an endless amount of free services. They have shuttles from the parking lot to the entrance and assign you to a guide who gives you a gift bag on your first visit.

They’re really geared more towards community service and providing a place to help your kids grow up with a strong value system—keeping them off drugs and out of trouble—as well as connecting with like minded people.

But they’re like religion-lite. I toured a lot of them when I was going to AA meetings because they all support every kind of recovery and self help program you can imagine. I live in an amazing medium sized city. We have access to so much free stuff. Obviously there are a lot of wealthy donors at the churches and colleges here which enables them to give back to the community.

I’m getting a little side tracked. I guess my point is, the churches are present more than ever but very unorthodox these days. Everybody looks like a hipster. They’re more about community and life in the here and now as opposed to the hereafter.

My symbols are always symmetric

Posted by: 💛🌟💛 777 💛🌟💛 | February 10, 2020 at 04:42 PM

Sorry kind sir.

I confused your symbolism with another's including 'Sath_Path' some posts back

@ "A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless
@ manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures
@ their home coming i.e. back to origin."
Ultimately, it's the Master's inner form that becomes the Friend
accompanying you home and who remains with you forever.
Not the outer. It's an important distinction because the outer
master is transient. He's only a placeholder for what's within.
He repeats with every talk, every interview, every breath: it's the
inner master who befriends, guides ,and protects the disciple.
Gurinder makes it even clearer when he says "How do you know
I'm not a fraud?" and "I'm not coming for you at death". His intent
is clear: you shouldn't worship what's outside. You may honor,
respect, listen with all reverence to satsangs but the goal is always
to propel you inward to find His real form. Without that experience
the mystic path devolves to blind faith. It's another religion.
Posted by: Dungeness | February 10, 2020 at 09:09 AM

Hi Dungeness
You wouldn’t have been aware of what you write had it not been for the physical master which many wish to brush aside with disdain. And I agree with your interpretation of some of GSD's utterances. But come 'he' will for 'he' has to at the death of his initiate. 'he' could just happen to be his inner form.

The outer form however is extremely important too - for a number of reasons. It would be foolish to brush it aside for it is transient or treat it as a placeholder. May I remind you the famous Kabir couplet

‘guru govinda dono khaḍe, kāke lāgū pāya
balihārī guru āapane, govinda diyo milāya’

Further, In verse 4.34 of the Bhagavad Gita, Shree Krishna states:

tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśhnena sevayā
upadekṣhyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśhinaḥ

“Learn the truth by approaching a Spiritual Master (Guru). Inquire from him with reverence, and render service unto him. Such an enlightened Saint can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”

God does not initially come before us. He has a rule: Nirmala mana jana so mohin pava. “I am attained by the pure at heart.” And we are all impure. This is where the physical master comes in. He does the work of a sweeper; he cleans our heart and helps us qualify to meet God. When we finally become nirmal (pure), then God reveals Himself to us. So, the credit of bringing us to that point goes to the Physical master.

Do you know the word “Guru” consists of two syllables—gu and ru. Gu means “darkness” and ru means “one who destroys.” Thus, the Guru is the personality who destroys the darkness of ignorance from us and brings us into the light of divine knowledge. The Guru does all the hard work of purifying us, tolerating our negative behaviors and thoughts, our failures, our shortcomings and shielding and protecting us from the external world. His is a thankless job as we can never repay the debt to our Guru. No wonder the Adi Sant Kabir placed his Guru above the Lord himself.

Anyways it was ‘Who is a Saint (Sant)’ and not ‘who is the real Master’ that triggered this discussion and a Saint is always associated with an individual in the physical world. Shabd, like God, does not manifest itself in its true form before us in this world. And so all we have is the Physical Master who if perfect (saint for me) is God manifesting himself in the physical world. Some can then say in effect the true form of the physical master ranks above our supposed true master - the Shabd.

Doesn't mean we have to worship the physical but this is something which only the rare amongst us manage to do. The reason why they forbid worshipping them is not because they are transient but because God realisation in Sant Mat is through an inner journey and worship of anything in the physical world, including worship of the physical form keeps us from going within.


Sd/-

Sath_Path

@ Sonia
The point was the difference between the USA and europe and the influence that background has on the way people live there relation with Sant Mat.

All sorts of religious zealots fled from europe and what they had in their minds and hearts you see reflected in the religious scenery of the USA …. and …. how americans handle sant mat.

And … the western inner circle consists mostly of americans … they are the background legislators.

@Karim
My symbols are always symmetric
Posted by: 💛🌟💛 777 💛🌟💛 | February 10, 2020 at 04:42 PM
Sorry kind sir.
I confused your symbolism with another's including 'Sath_Path' some posts back
Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | February 10, 2020 at 10:27 PM

I feel So fine you catched my little stream

777

Spence . Why do you hate being judged ? Just read one of your response above. It just made me laugh. Off course people are going to judge you. Everyone is including your son when he grows up. Get used to it. I have .

Megachurches in the US: Tennessee, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama and South Carolina had the most per capita, followed by Washington and Indiana...

https://factsandtrends.net/2017/08/31/are-megachurches-crowding-your-state/

@anami

Haha!! 😂 Yep. That is exactly what it’s like!

@ Sonia
The point was the difference between the USA and europe and the influence that background has on the way people live there relation with Sant Mat.

All sorts of religious zealots fled from europe and what they had in their minds and hearts you see reflected in the religious scenery of the USA …. and …. how americans handle sant mat.

And … the western inner circle consists mostly of americans … they are the background legislators.

Posted by: um | February 11, 2020 at 01:23 AM

Oh. Sorry. I got side tracked. I hear what you’re saying.

Wow, now we can come to ‘Church of the Churchless’ and sit through both a sermon and a satsang. 😂

Hi Arjuna
You write
"Spence . Why do you hate being judged ? Just read one of your response above. It just made me laugh. Off course people are going to judge you. Everyone is including your son when he grows up. Get used to it. I have ."

Hate is too strong a word. We all have to put up with it. My son has been the object of it all his life. But in some ways so has each of us.

Therefore if there is an opportunity to encourage a stronger sense of equality, of seeing how we are all the same from a higher perspective, then that I like. I prefer building bridges, not walls. But sometimes a wall needs to be torn down to make room for a bridge.

I’m going to refrain from commenting for the rest of the day before I get myself into trouble. Now I’m going to go do some scream therapy (and simultaneously contemplate all my sins). Oh, I can tell it’s going to be a good day...

You quoted Steve in support for your claim that we don't burn Karmas

"That often narrated - one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions - his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation."

The symbolism that Steve is trying to replace here, of Master taking on all Karma is wrong, especially Sinchit Karma. And especially as Master has clearly stated we have a role to play.

But what is the point of discussing the power of Spirit, of Shabd and Nam? If you have not been living with it?

Further, you have ignored also what Maharaji wrote about the physical Master, who is not the true Master.

This is how teachings about Spirit (the Word, Shabd, Nam) degrades into worship of people, instead of worship of the Lord. And our duty to use the Spirit to destroy Karma within. The same power the Master wields, we have within ourselves to weild. And He does His job helping us to do so.

If you won't believe the very words of your own Master, of course my words will be like rain on concrete. But then perhaps words from another book which echoes and verifies these teachings will help you get woke.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 10, 2020 at 09:33 AM

Hi Spence

What do you even know about me Spence? But your fakery about inner travel and visions has long been called out in here. So yes, there is no point discussing anything about Santmat with you since you do not live with it!!

Me ignoring what Maharaji wrote about the physical master and/or a need for me to scroll through another book to have clarity about the teachings. Let me say to you trying not to sound pompous – we have been associated with the path from the Great Master’s time (and long before he became the guru) - so with almost ALL masters of the RSSB lineage, their utterances, publications, views and interpretations. Almost certainly unparalleled at least in here. Will refrain disclosing the inner associations for its just not worth it in here.

Do I still need a Steve’s post to support my claim about Karmas or your incremental gyan on Christianity/ other scriptures - to wake me up to what are the RSSB/Santmat teachings? LoL

Is it a shortage of “to go to persons” for my doubts that brings me to this blog? Let me answer this for you. Certainly not.

Now let me bring back some bits of my previous post since its obvious they have been entirely missed by you or not understood.

1) Your insignificant effort (2.5hrs of daily meditation) eventually does invoke the Master’s/His grace of clearing a WHOLE LOT of residual sanchit karmas.

2) But to say one's meditation clears out one's karmic ledger ENTIRELY …….

The words in caps indicate (at least to those who have a fair understanding of the teachings) some leftovers (karmas) w.r.t. which only an individual (soul) has a role to play – whether that be living out these select karmas or paying these off by our OWN meditation. It’s a different matter that our meditation again isn’t possible without the grace of the Master who initiates you.

Also be kind enough, especially since you display your profound knowledge and expertise and are sure that my understanding of the teachings is flawed, to highlight the portions of my post which even remotely suggest that the physical master is the be all and end all in the soul’s journey back to its origin. Thanks in advance Bro.

Its also time to remind you that it was ‘Who is a Saint (Sant)’ and not ‘who is the real Master’ that was being discussed. Yet both you and Dungeness wander away into the realm of who the real Master is. A Saint is always associated with an individual in the physical world. And the real Saint in this physical world, in his/her physical form initiates and links the initiate with the Sound Current.

Also, it would be interesting to hear what ‘your’ Maharaji had to say on Kabir’s couplet

guru govinda dono khaḍe, kāke lāgū pāya

balihārī guru āapane, govinda diyo milāya

Kabir I hope you are aware is an Adi Sant. And since I am dealing with an expert on Sant Mat, I believe I don’t need to clarify the significance of an Adi Sant.

Sd/-

Sath_Path

Coronavirus: Dr. Berg’s opinion
https://youtu.be/K_qmjTJ6RLQ

Maybe I am Kal. Fuck. Why is spirituality so hard?

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈


You wrote
"Saint is always associated with an individual in the physical world. And the real Saint in this physical world, in his/her physical form initiates and links the initiate with the Sound Current."

But the True Saint is within us. The Saint that brings us back to the Lord, our source, is within.

We all need good teachers, good friends. The body is only a covering, a vehicle for the person inside it.

My quote of Maharaji wasn't as a reference of evidence, but only to encourage you to accept that while we may see things differently, the difference in emphasis is within the teachings that you are discussing.

Truth is something else. It isn't descriptions of things. It's those very things themselves.

So if you are practicing, all is good in its own time.

I'm no authority on Sant Mat, only my own experience.


🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
So, you’re say that we’re all separate from God (the thing about Sant Mat that struck fear into my heart) until the Master purifies is. You’re saying that right now I’m separate from God?

I’m going to need some antipsychotics to deal with that one.

And, Spence, I can’t deal with having to take on ALL my karmas.

So, I’m f’d in these two conversations.


As we all know, "Ãí€ŵçüü θù§ œQv!ëmã bé'øpp."

There, I said it! I win the holy war!

Hi Sonia
Yeah basically I'm fucked every day.

The Lord takes on everything. The Lord does everything. But that power is within you. Not anywhere else. If your Master is real, he is within you.

You have work to do. That's what meditation is all about. You can lengthen the process or shorten it.

But we shorten the process simply reconnecting with ourselves.

And Shabd, Nam, Spirit practice is weilding the light Saber given to you by your Friend... Which is really uncovering the light sabor buried in you.


So you can say Master does it all, or you can say The Lord is doing it all, or you can say I'm doing it all, with a deeper understanding of what we actually are, and that is connected. It's just a matter of perspective. But in all instances you are on the hook to do your part.... But that part includes getting really good at handing everything off to Master, and then doing whatever you possibly can, whatever He tells you to do. It's just the practice.

Thanks, Spence. That’s more comforting. 😊

An interesting question and Hazur's response


Q: Well, is it correct to assume then that once you are initiated everything that happens to you is for your own spiritual good? That everything that happens is helping you to go back to the Father?

Ans: At least we should take it in that light. It may be a bitter pill to swallow sometimes. Because, you see, it’s good from the Father’s point of view, not from the worldly point of view. Our concept of his grace is something very different. We think that if he gives us a very good partner and a good house and a lot of money and a good reputation in this world, if we are worshipped by people, then the Father’s grace is very much on us. But his grace may come in a different way. He may take your wife from you or your child or your friend. And you may become frustrated by this world and turn back to the Father. That may be his grace, to pull you out of all the attachments of the world and make you realize the reality, which you never would have thought about otherwise. You were so much engrossed in your own love, your achievements and your own wealth that you have practically forgotten him. That is not his grace. His grace is what pulls you back to him, and that may be a very bitter pill. Our concept of his grace is something very different – it is always from the worldly point of view.

As we all know, "Ãí€ŵçüü θù§ œQv!ëmã bé'øpp."

There, I said it! I win the holy war!

Posted by: Cousin Zigzag | February 11, 2020 at 09:30 AM

Wow. You’re like a Zen Master.

The outer form however is extremely important too - for a number of reasons. It would be foolish to brush it aside for it is transient or treat it as a placeholder.

Sd/-

Sath_Path

Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 11, 2020 at 01:10 AM

I have been following this exchange between Steve, Georgy Porgy, Sath_Path, Spence and Dungeness with some interest.

Time to share some titbit for the benefit of Spence, Dungeness, all the confused with some Santmat 2.0 and Ex-ers in particular -

The below is by The Great Master in The Dawn of Light. The last sentence is the clincher.


"I am glad to learn that after long and patient waiting you have received initiation. You have been put in touch with the sound current. This is the connecting link between your soul and the Creator.

From the time of initiation, when the Master takes over the charge of a soul, he is more anxious than the soul to see it installed on the throne of bliss and peace. Even if the devotee, through some chance, leaves the Master or loses faith in him, he, on his part, never leaves. He will someday bring the devotee on the path again. His mission is to take souls up, and a soul once initiated is never deserted. This is the law."

Maharaj Sawan Singh, The Dawn of Light


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