« Ricky Gervais nails the ridiculousness of religion | Main | More of the same in Singh brothers/RSSB guru financial fraud case »

February 03, 2020

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

"Listen to the tale of love, O loving soul!

Serve the Guru with love and devotion and sacrifice yourself to his darshan again and again.

The words of the Guru captivate the disciple's heart, as the sweet babbling of an infant thrills a doting mother.

As a man in love adores his sweetheart, a gurmukh is enraptured by the form of his Guru.

Eating or drinking, sleeping or awake, or going about the business life, the Guru's form never leaves his mind.

He feels the pangs of love as if an arrow were constantly piercing his heart.

A gurmukh who has cultivated such love for the Guru will realize the supreme purpose of life.

Until a disciple is inspired by this kind of love for the Guru, he should be considered worldly and self-indulgent.

The manmukh just drifts through life, belonging to no one.

How can he obtain spiritual wealth?

Radha Soami proclaims to one and all: hold fast to Guru's hand now – in this very life." -Soami Ji

And, BTW, I think the old Satsangar has a creepy vibe. Sorry, but maybe there is something to the old folk tales about villagers believing the grounds of Dera were haunted way back when. Isn’t that why Jaimal Singh got it for free? Do I have the right guru? He was the one who lived in the mud hut, right?

But maybe there’s no such thing as ghosts or demons. Maybe there’s only fairies and angels and love and light in the world. And unicorns.

Is their any evidence for his claim as to being an ‘expert’ in this area or is what he believes to be a true Saint merely in line with his own narrow moralistic beliefs of what a saint ought to be, rather than having any idea of what a saint actually is.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 04, 2020 at 04:54 AM

What’s your definition of a Saint?

Sonia

Dunno if I should respond. If you mention suicide again - I’m out.

I don’t think there is a definition or type. That is why I want to know how the great expert Pastor Spence knows what a True Saint is. Certainly I doubt they’d have many (if any) of the syrupy-sweet Christian moralities of our churchless pastor.

These outer qualities are mostly superficial and culturally determined. Instead, the one inner quality I think they might all have in common is ‘selfless unconditional love and kindness’ - but not of the sort most ppl including myself are even vaguely familiar.

Most ppl like to think they are good, kind and selfless, but in reality virtually no human is, despite I think being capable of selfless love maybe more than any animal. I’m not taking about programmed ‘altruist’ phenotypes or learned behaviors. What might look to be a sweet syrupy act of goodness, humility or benevolence might be self-serving (and sometimes unconsciously so). The sheep dressed in wolves clothing.

I think the closest we get to this ‘unconditional love’ is certain rare parents or lovers who would take a bullet for their beloved without hesitation - and much more. I think even this type of love is extremely rare, tho many outwardly profess to it. I think saintly love if it exists would be of a different magnitude altogether and extend to all things, but It needs another element - it needs to be a love guided by a deep intuitive wisdom / understanding of what is best for the being that the saint is dealing with. So selfless love can be unhelpful if it’s foolish. You don’t give the spoiled child an endless trust fund - he’ll destroy himself. I think it’s virtually impossible for any human to have both these qualities, which is why I suspect Saints are rarer than hen’s teeth (if they exist at all).

I know ppl who outwardly have bad tempers, that don’t give a good gdam about playing nice or having a ‘nice bedside manner’. They def wont whisper sweet nothings into your ear to boost your deflated ego, especially if a deflating was needed in the first place, yet in my experience are sometimes also capable of great wisdom and almost indescribable kindness. I suspect it’s often these ppl that are infintely closer to being Real Saints (if this exists at all) than the sterile kumbaya kissy-kissy brigade. So I think it’s far more likely that a true saint is likely to be a sheep in wolf’s clothing, rather than the other way around.

But let’s take a recent real-world example. Despite many being touched by how you felt the other day - the one person who had the most to offer with the least to say was the satsangi who simply offered to come talk to you in person (4 lines outa Texas). If I was measuring selfless goodness, I’d go for the actions of the selfless satsangi over the syrupy words of the self-involved ex-satsangi. I think saints don’t even want to be measured - they want it private and anonymous - no ego, recognition or superficiality involved at all.

You asked, thats my opinion. Don’t get all over-sensitive about it. I don’t mind if you have a different opinion.

Georgy,

I watched 4 documentaries last night about people who had been through years of captive imprisonment and torture. I don’t normally ever watch anything dark light that. I’m not into horror stories. I don’t even know what drove me to watch it last night. But seeing the way these people came out of their horrific ordeals with such a strong desire to help others and with their ability to appreciate life was a transformative moment for me.

If I ever complain about anything again, just slap me.

Except for the panic attacks—those were the literal definition of hell and cannot be described—but they weren’t because of anyone, they were just my own bit of karma. Really, really, really shitty, but karma nonetheless. I don’t know... the thing about those experiences is that even though they were as bad as any kind of pain or fear could ever be experienced, they didn’t have effects that lasted beyond the moment. Because nothing was actually seen or heard during those moments—there was “nothing”. Just being cut off from the life source itself. It’s impossible to explain. But even if they lasted for several hours, when it was over they didn’t leave any “scars” because “nothing” happened and there wasn’t a torturer. Again, impossible to explain.

But nothing else that I’ve experienced or been through or lost in my life is of any significance compared to what those people went through. I kept asking myself last night wtf am I watching this stuff?! Normally I’d never watch anything as horrible as that even though they were documentaries. And when it was over, I just felt embarrassed for complaining about stuff. I understood why I needed to see it. And these survivors... wow. They are so inspiring. They are incredibly, amazing individuals.

That said, thanks for your thoughts about what a Saint is. I understand what you are saying and can appreciate a lot of it but I also, have several thoughts on that matter (naturally). I spent too much time writing about the other stuff and got a call—right now I have to go see Chloe!!! I’ll put my thoughts together about your comments and respond later.

Yip I don’t understand that kind of terror or panic attack. Depression I can kind of understand but does complaining about it help any? I don’t think it does.

Maybe you should be watching comedies, rather than horror documentaries, or maybe something uplifting from your generation:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Coee656uPCk

Georgy Porgy you say "I’d go for the actions of the selfless satsangi over the syrupy words of the self-involved ex-satsangi."

Assuming you mean me when I said to Sonia: "About depression, my heart goes out to you".

Some people seem to despise platitudes even though they can be genuine and the truest thing a person is saying to another, especially from someone who does have a heart and empathy for others.

My generation?? 😂 I do remember singing all of the songs in grade school, though. It’s a classic.

Well, it was odd, last night one documentary popped up on YouTube and intrigued me so I just watched it. Normally I wouldn’t be able to. Normally it would just be too upsetting. But for some reason I was a bit removed and detached enough to watch those documentaries. I won’t keep watching those types much in future. But I really needed to see them last night. It shifted my perspective dramatically and suddenly.

I think the best way for people to stop feeling sorry for themselves is to help others—community service, volunteering, helping a neighbor or family member or friend. It kind of smacks you in the face in a good way and reminds you that everyone struggles at one time or another. This world is full of challenges. Self pity doesn’t help anyone. There’s definitely a time for grieving and healing but self-pity is a completely different thing. It’s a self-destructive monster. Oprah agrees.

As far as A Course in Miracles goes, I experienced a real eye opener this week. I read a few things on the internet that made me curious about the author/scribe so I found a biography about her which also contained pieces of her own autobiography and notes. She was an only child from an affluent Jewish family in New York. She struggled her whole life with depression and anxiety. And she had and intense search for God which took her from Theosophy to becoming a Baptist, then Agnostic then Atheist then New Age Christian and finally Catholic at the end of her life. She was a highly complex, highly intelligent individual who was extremely driven. But she was driven more by a fear of failure than a desire to succeed. Anyway, after graduate school she became a Professor of Medical Psychology at Columbia University.

She was difficult. She was compassionate. She had a split mind. In truth, I think she likely suffered from schizo-affective disorder. I don’t think A Course in Miracles is a spiritual book. I think it was the author reconciling her two personalities. She could be extremely critical, harsh and scathing. And she had all kinds of phobias. ACIM, in my opinion was essentially her “talking to herself”. It was her subconscious way of trying to come to terms with her two conflicting personalities and cope with all of her fears, anxieties and phobias. The language in the book does not reflect her personality at all. She was extremely blunt and abrupt by nature. Not to say that the book doesn’t have some merit to it. But I think going to a psychotherapist would be a much saner route than following ACIM as a spiritual path.

With regards to your definition of what a Saint is, I agree that one doesn’t have to be syrupy sweet nor should they be harsh. Flattery is fun sometimes but too much flattery inflates the ego. The primary role of a Saint (according to Sant Mat) is to help souls reach self realization/God realization through meditation. And to teach seekers how to correct behavior in their lives that is impeding their spiritual growth. But the responsibility lies in the hands of the individual. You can lead a horse to water and then you can drown them (haha). No, seriously, as far as helping people goes it’s better to be natural. Not harsh, judgmental, sugary sweet. Just natural. The best parents do this. They have this sort of unspoken natural confidence-building way of communicating. It encourages the child without inflating their ego. And inflating the ego ultimately makes the child just as insecure as berating them.

But each individual has their own personality and unique way of communicating. Just look at the 5 gurus of Beas—very different personalities indeed.

Communication, both verbal and non verbal, is something everyone should continue to work on till the day they die. Kinder is better. But it should just be natural.

However, a movie without strong characters would be pretty boring...

If you want strong fix-it advice go to a guy. If you want someone to comfort you go to a woman. Those are gross stereotypes which fit less and less with each new generation. However, there is truth in it. Yin Yang. Balance.

Empowerment. That’s the key. Empower people. Give people confidence that they can do what they need to do. Don’t give them a crutch (unless they really do have a broken leg). Just love and encouragement. At the end of the day, we’re all responsible for our own actions.

You have a strong personality... so do I and so do a lot of people. It’s pretty obvious when you look at all the commenters here. However, because I’m not inside of other people’s minds I don’t know what drives them or what fears or experiences have shaped the way that they communicate. It annoys me tremendously when people jump straight into denial when faced with dark truths. But I’ve learned for many it’s a coping mechanism. A lot of the way people communicate has to do with self preservation. It really is that primal. Not primal in a bad way—just how we both connect and protect ourselves at the same time.

Now I’m going to watch Sound of Music. I don’t think I’ve ever seen all of it. Just bits and pieces. It looks happy. 😄

No Jen I wasn’t thinking if you, but mr syrup. Platitudes are fine if genuine, but I was amazed that your namesake from Texas would actually travel across the US to go speak to someone she doesn’t know from a bar of soap cos she was concerned for her wellbeing.

Sonia I just think ppl over complicate their lives with too much BS. Split personality, psychotherapy, neurotic this or that - forget it all. What did the guru say - all you need is to be a good person - and that is pretty much right imo.

Hi Sonia
You wrote
"I think the best way for people to stop feeling sorry for themselves is to help others—community service, volunteering, helping a neighbor or family member or friend. It kind of smacks you in the face in a good way and reminds you that everyone struggles at one time or another. "

It's for our own benefit. We get so much from helping others. Not proselytizing. Not flying across the country to convert someone in distress to our religion. Nor to another country of poor people with food and bibles looking to convert them to our religion.

Real selfless service, where you don't care how someone looks or acts, you don't care about their politics or beliefs, whether they are a nice person or not. You don't reject them because they are blind, or have abused drugs, or even if they were a thief or a murderer. None of these things matter. You don't say "I'll help you but I won't help her."

You just volunteer, you just go and help in any way you can, hoping, but never quite knowing whether you are actually helping or not. You go, in fact further, where no one else will go. You change the diapers of an obese psychiatric patient in hospital. You clean their feces and vomit spread like finger painting on the walls, as a volunteer.

Because there is a human being there, in there, under all that...

Then you sit with them in their calmer moments, you watch TV with them, play checkers with them. Even when their mental capacity is so low they have no language at all.

It's a different perspective. A better one.

You become more and less because of it.

But what you gain most is understanding. The fact they have no language, once you get to know them, explains their frustration, their outburst, and under that frustration their own panic and terror, and their only means to communicate these, that they actually realize their imprisonment. And your gentle hand is their momentary escape. Then you want to help them escape as often as you can. And that also becomes your escape.

You are both the beneficiary. In some of those moments you are both the same. In those moments, you are free.

I liked the sper Bowl vid too
Remember great Byoncéé

Proof of :

It is impossible to find God outside of ourselves.
We are the greatest temple.
— Swami Vivekananda

Sonia I just think ppl over complicate their lives with too much BS. Split personality, psychotherapy, neurotic this or that - forget it all. What did the guru say - all you need is to be a good person - and that is pretty much right imo.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 12:11 AM

Georgy, I feel like you missed my point entirely.

I was simply explaining how I replaced RSSB with ACIM and after further investigation discovered the real truth (as I understand it) about ACIM which has been credited by many as leading the beginning of the New Age movement. And since ACIM claims to have be channeled by an entity, it’s important to understand the mental state of the “scribe”. Understanding that is what led me to the conclusion that ACIM wasn’t worth following as a “spiritual” path.

It was a very important step for me.

I put a lot of time and thought into that comment.

Now I’m really curious as to what your definition of a “good person” is. I get that your mind doesn’t do deep analysis and perhaps you’re more prone to denial than facing dark truths, but you should respect the fact that we all learn differently.

You want everyone to fit your mold. People are unique and if you don’t take the time to understand people, you’re not going to be a good teacher of anything.

I hope you’re not too offended.

Georgy, now you’re pushing me to the point of atheism. Maybe that was your intention all along.

Hi Spence,

I completely agree. No quid pro quo. 😂

Georgy, maybe what’s holding you back spiritually is the fact that you’re an idiot.

And as an idiot you shouldn’t be teaching anyone anything of any kind.

I can’t tell if your brain is suffering from fatigue or if it’s just underdeveloped.

Georgy,

It’s self-righteous, simple minded people like you that are so easily impressed by this guru. I get your attraction to him. He suffers from mental and emotional fatigue. I can’t tell what you’re suffering from but your lack of empathy and understanding equate to the same problem that GSD has.

Clearly you don’t spend much time on introspection, but at some point you’re going to have to face the cold hard fact that you are self righteous as all fuck.

This is exactly why I didn’t follow that guru. He’s arrogant and self righteous. And he attracts the same type of people.

I had a profound realization about ACIM the day before yesterday and today Ive had a profound realization about your guru/RSSB today. It is run by and attracts arrogant, self-righteous people who don’t like to think much.

At this point, I’m just disgusted with philosophical, spiritual or religious fanatics of any kind.

Wow. This has certainly been the week of rapid self-discovery.

I am officially an agnostic theist. I’m so exhausted with the arrogant certainty of religion and organized spirituality. It’s arrogance. It’s annoying. It’s destructive. It aggravates mental illness.

There. Done. Thank you.

Dear Sonia,
What makes you want to go to Dera?
I do'nt think that your questions become answered..
If you go because and with husband is a different cooki.

How you describe GSD ..
Then I think what the....you want go there then?

Sonia

Stop moaning. Akuna Matada. I personally couldn’t give a shit if you joined ACIM, Juicing 4 Justice or the Moonies. Do whatever makes you happy.

You’ve left the rssb , fine. A party 🎉, go get pissed, just stop the bitchin.

Newsflash - You’ve got zero resilience, and dunno what to do with yourself every time you poke the bear and get some home truths you go off into some kind of wierd neurotic state. Just fk off already. Do whatever you want. I couldn’t care less.

To Sonia,
And I also had severe panic attacts in Dera!
Difficult to talk about that,it was terrible.
It had to do with old karma and paying back..
The circel of transmigration..and my dearly non satsangi kids and friends etc..
That stuff.. chaurasi.. frightened me to death.
Nobody understood the impact it had on me and agony..:(..so lonely I was there then..
Scatered and frightened...
I had that more times..
I am so happy that the teachings are gone for me!!!
The love stays that I have learned from Maharaji..

I must give credit to Babaji about that he loosened up about the chaurasi etc..
But it is not consistent,because satsang sewadars and books still tell the sort of same old stuff.
If I hear about that in satsangs sometimes when I go there( I still do at times)..
It does'nt touch me anymore at all..
Now I am ashtonished about the impact it had on me.
I was 19 when I started with Santmat and my parents and whole family became satsangi's.
My father was extremely dominant and always angry in my youth so..maybe trough that fact I had these extreem reactions..
I am very happy it's just totaly off me..( the teachings)

Just fk off already. Do whatever you want. I couldn’t care less.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 09:50 AM

Clearly.

How you describe GSD ..
Then I think what the....you want go there then?
Posted by: s* | February 05, 2020 at 09:48 AM

Yes, you’re absolutely right. I was an agnostic theist before I got married. It’s the only thing that made sense to me. I would never have married my husband if I had known he was part of an organized religion which RSSB is. And I mean that in all sincerity. He knew it too which is why he hid it from me.

But after several years I gave RSSB a try. People like Georgy piss me off because they attack everyone on this blog who isn’t RSSB. I’m so tired of him attacking Spence and then today he attacked Jen. For someone who’s so in love with his “not guru” and completely indecisive about whether or not he even wants to join it, he certainly does have contempt for anyone who doesn’t worship and adore GSD as much as he does. Then again, Jesse is probably right. I’m sure Georgy is actually an RSSB initiate doing his form of “seva” by bashing everyone who doesn’t agree with RSSB.

Almost all Satsangis share his attitude which is the same attitude his stupid guru has.

I’m not RSSB. Your IQ has to be below a certain number and your ego has to be inflated in order to really belong in that organization.

Love has no place in RSSB.

I’m going to “fuck off” now. Something no one has ever, ever, ever said to me before (other than Gurinder).

Georg-y,

Wtf are you on this blog??? Seriously. Wtf are you trying to achieve??? Go to www.idontknowwtftodo.com

GP (BTW I can’t stand that name)

“Saints” do not exist. Not anymore than unicorns and leprechauns. We’re all flawed individuals. It’s just that some of us are honest with ourselves and willing to admit it—willing to keep trying to learn more. Nobody dies a perfect person. No one is perfect.

You’re the kind of guy that becomes a wife beater. Don’t EVER get married.

Resilient? You don’t even know the definition of the word.

People like you are the very reason people get turned off by religion and fanatic cultish spirituality.

Georgy is an Ass. As I said I would have loved to meet him and they guys who hit osho at Haynes.

Nothing like a good bout of violence to teach people humility and love.

Sonia . Ignore him

Georgy is an Ass. As I said I would have loved to meet him and they guys who hit osho at Haynes.

Nothing like a good bout of violence to teach people humility and love.

Sonia . Ignore him

Posted by: Arjuna | February 05, 2020 at 11:40 AM


So true. I just don't understand why people come here to be so critical of those who don't follow RSSB anymore.

The fact is, a lot of the people here probably would still be involved with RSSB if it weren't such a loveless organization with loveless devotees following a loveless guru.

I think it's Stockholm Syndrom in my case.

I wish Georgy would get initiated, stop being a coward and take the plunge. Only then would he have the right to defend the guru and the organization. But right now it's COMPLETELY hypocritical. If he were initiated and came to the realization that it's no different than being in a really bad marriage then he wouldn't be going on his usual rant about what a "true Saint" is and how being an asshole doesn't exclude someone from being GIHF.

OK, I'm going to get back to work and take a break from this for a while.

Sorry, Georgy. I hope YOU are resilient. LOL

I really am sorry. Not everyone can handle my rants. But that doesn't mean I think you're a saint either. My husband is ex South African special forces. He led a platoon of mercenaries and I sometimes forget that not everyone is used to no-holds-barred bluntness...

Here we go...
https://youtu.be/oDD3I0uOlqY

After all, did say you didn't mind if I don't agree with you. LOL

@Arjuna

See this simple explanation of Sant Mat
I mean : close to earth : etheric akashic explanation
But when she speaks @ 18:23 about digital Zeros & Ones
it should be analogue 27Qubits Ofc

Living In A Simulated Reality, The Amazing Scientific Proof...Who Created it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46JGNvFrtUw

I m half way
I hope she describes the goal as Total Love
and 'hurt' will besuppressed

777

Arjuna,

Who hit Osho at Haynes Park??
Jesus! 😧

Just for the record, Jen from Austin wasn’t going to travel across the country for me. She said if I was in her area (Bay Area) that she’d meet me. I know you’re not that familiar with the US but when you’re looking at a map the left side of the United States (West) is where the Bay Area is and I live on the other side—the East (right side of the map).

What is ‘selfless unconditional love and kindness’?

Let’s just start with kindness.

OK, I readily admit I’m not a “nice” person but I do care about all the people here because I’ve sort of gotten to know them over the year. They are in fact nice people—selfless people who often display acts of unconditional love.

I know that GSD is extremely defensive about ppl comparing him to Charan Singh because Charan was gentler, kinder and outwardly appeared to be more loving. I don’t know what he really thinks about HIS Master, but he has done everything in his power to be just the opposite which leads one to the logical conclusion that not all Masters are the same and they certainly haven’t merged into one being.

Just something to think about...

You just come try your bout of violence mr forces and we’ll see just who is humbled or not.

I dunno where that came from, but you another flip-flopper. I’m loyal to my friends. Fkme who needs enemies with this bunch of psitzho wierdos.

"At this point, I’m just disgusted with philosophical, spiritual or religious fanatics of any kind."

Sonia, your comments make me smile and cheer me up. I love that you communicate so honestly and show your feelings. Thats females isn't it, we can be very emotional beings. Don't worry too much about finding out who and what you are. Just be yourself. I've come to the realisation that trying to change myself just doesn't work anyway and I can't be bothered with labelling myself as this or that, I am just me with all my faults and as for life, It is what it is.

Has she fkd off yet ?

or they still crying over and over and over again ...

Jesus Christ almighty, what a Gdam bunch of sad sacks ... I dunno whose worst actually.

Yip look at all the angst and falsehoods being spread - I’m now a wifebeater.

Check them all go.

You lot are railing at yourselves. You all in for the high jump - it’s coming , you both know it better than me. It’s got nothing to do with me.

You’re basically all a big mess and such a bunch of whinging sad sacks. For gd sake fk off from rssb and stay fkd off , they having a party as we speak - the magnificent 7 are busting huge moves the more of you leave the better.
Wahoo party 🎉!!!

Oh shit my favorite song has come on: ice ice baby...

@ Jen

Of course you cannot change .. the the crow doesn't, nor the Nightingale or the eagle … nor the roses, the butterflies …. they all witness this world as they are.

Cultural we change, not natural.
Our natural being, being more than just the bones and the flesh.
Our culture is an cover-up like clothes cover the naked body and protect it from heat and cold.

It is not so easy to figure out what and who we are without that social-cultural cover, other wise people would not so easy lose their lives for nothing or kill one another.

Yip now I’m a wifebeater, can you believe it! Unvelievable.

This is precisely why this website of propaganda and falsehoods needs free speech. Just who are the trolls and bad guys in this sordid mess?

Next she’ll breakdown sure as clockwork, ball her eyes out promising to top herself, then be self-reflective for a brief instant, then pseudo-resilient until bored/unhappy and the whole Gdam soap opera schpiel of false accusations and groundless blame will start all over again.

Oh it’s okay we must just accept her, she’s going through a tough time. Bullshit - these are outright lies being propagated.

Is it just my imagination or are there an awful lot of cry-baby special forces on here. It’s like napoleons grand Armee - only problem is they all such sadsacK cry babies. If you think I’m afraid of you, you got another thing coming.

You fools should instead be paying for my counseling services. Yup that what I’m doing. I mean who in their right mind what put up with your BS? If I was the guru I’d tell you all to fk off and stay fkd off, and we’d all hold a massive party 🎉 with the magnificent 7 busting moves on the dancefloor.

By all means act tough, act clever, cry like babies 🍼, cast falsehoods and untruths on others - if it helps you sad sacks , go for it. Still you know the truth in what I say and that the High jump is coming for you - it’s unavoidable. You know it better than me.

Judas central.

Georgy hi
I live and work in the Bay Area for now so I offered Sonia to meet up if she was local. Though I wouldn’t hesitate to travel to help a fellow human being in need. Sonia’s message did sound like a cry for help and this is why I chimed in. This is the purpose of why we are here....to realize our true self and to be of help to one another. Atleast that is what I have learned from my Guru. He says it’s about being human. 😊

Georgy
Congratulations you have triggered the same reaction from Sonia that she had when she had the conversation with the guru. It’s basically coming from not hearing what she WANTED to hear. So get ready to be the target of multiple posts about how horrible you are. Jerk, arrogant, wife beater, self righteous blah blah blah Good luck. Haha
She has been posting this way from a very long time now. First under Sarah then Sonya b and not Sonia t. The sad thing is she uses this platform and gullible people who don’t know any better may actually believe her and what she says about the guru. (And now you) 😳

Jen from Austin
Yes I may look like a prick but I can still see goodness from a mile off.

Shalini
Yep same old lies and falsehoods.

I don’t actually mind if what they are saying about the guru is true / I’d like to hear it, but this fking outright slander is shameful - there’s not an iota of truth, honesty or sincerity to any of them. I got no time for liars.

Don’t know who the Magnificent 7 are. People keep referencing them... 🤔

Anyhoo, the corona virus... this is almost apocalyptic. https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-05-20-intl-hnk/index.html

@s*

I’m so glad those trying days and panic attacks are behind you. I agree with you. You seem to have a really balanced perspective on the whole situation. :)

I think we should trust our gut feelings more. It’s interesting, police have said time and time again that they run into that problem so frequently—people who report ignoring their “gut instincts” and then becoming a victim of crime. That’s why you’ll always get the advice from a police officer to listen to your gut. If it doesn’t feel right, be extra cautious. Don’t try to over think it or rationalize it. Just step away.

@Jen,

Yess... I think meditating at the Shambalah center every now and then is about as close to “devotion” as I can stand to get right now. 😅

Now I have to go register as an Independent...

Look, Georgy, bottom line is I feel like the core of your message is that a “Saint” or guru doesn’t need to be nice or treat people with kindness.

I find this antithetical to the very nature of love.

If that’s truly how you feel then you must appreciate that everything I said to you today was an act of loving kindness. It’s not what you wanted to hear but it’s what you needed to hear.

No one likes getting a taste of their own medicine, but remember the time your guru told a group of people that Sheena had been sleeping around a bunch even though that was a lie. According to you and your guru that was for her own good... for her “spiritual“ development.

Sit with that for a while.

Hi Shalini
You write
"The sad thing is she uses this platform and gullible people who don’t know any better may actually believe her and what she says about the guru. (And now you) 😳"

May I suggest that people can read the exchange and form their own opinions.

But who are these people you are so worried about?

Have you fed any of them lately?

Maybe what is disturbing is the lack of compassion some display here, who are supposed to be Satsangis.

You see, Shalini, whatever anyone says about Gurinder only carries so much weight. But the behavior of his supporters towards his detractors is direct evidence.

When you attack someone, for any reason, whether it is Gurinder or Sonia, or Georgy, you set in motion a karmic wave that has its own life.

But what led you to make the attack?

You may blame Sonia for your decision to attack her. But it is your decision to enter that karmic web and introduce you own attacks back.

Georgy may blame Sonia or I for his decision to attack her or others, but it is his decision to enter that karmic web and make his own attacks. I actually am encouraging Georgy to take initiation. He would enjoy Gurinder's company within, and never feel the need to react in anger towards people he has never met and doesn't understand. But I get Georgy. He's a simple guy with a simple set of rules.

But Sonia is very clear that she is hurt. Her attacks stem from her vulnerability and pain, and what she feels was mistreatment. We should help her heal her wounds first. And that starts with listening, and honoring her view as 100% accurate from her perspective. No amendments, no attempt to move that anywhere or fix that. 100% acceptance.

Just as you, Shalini, must accept, 100%, your Karma. No point reacting about it. It's yours and no one else's. Just as Georgy must accept his Karma. The praise he receives and the blend he receives. It's his and no one else's.

So now Georgy and you indulge in mistreatment. And actually take what was just helping someone through their pain, and now elevating that, giving life and foundation to her claim.

You see, even a Sonia has no axe to grind about Gurinder. She is in pain, that is all. And she has been mistreated.

You and Georgy are trying to make her wrong, and reacting angrily.

But Maharaji said on more than one occasion that we generally view others as wrong when we don't agree with them. He asked, "does anyone ever think they are wrong?" and "how does it help to tell someone they are wrong?"

Shalini, have you considered you might be wrong?

I'm wrong every day. I don't even have a choice. I'm confronted with it every day.

Who has the luxury to indulge in some fantasy that they are free of that condition?

Even if Gurinder spoke harshly on occasion, it only makes him human. Sonia hasvsaid as much.

But some cannot tolerate the notion that Gurinder is all too human, just like the rest of us. There is nothing wrong with that, except to those who need him to be God. And out of that need to believe Gurinder is perfect, they react angrily and make accusations over some very small things.

My mom taught me a very important lesson, "God made all the trees
They come from him. None are perfect."

So when someone is hurt, and they are your brother or sister, you put aside your judgment and you help them through their pain. Gurinder is big enough to tolerate the anger of those he may have hurt. But are you big enough to have compassion?

Maharaji also taught that it is better to have only one angry person under a roof and not two. So why react in anger?

"Many a man would rather that you simply heard his story than grant his request."
Philip of Stanhope

The best way to prove who Gurinder is, at least for you, is to act that way.

And the best way to give Gurinder the reputation he already enjoys of being reactive, angry and hurtful is for his supporters to behave that way. Which some of them have no problem displaying.

Try endless compassion. I heard about it from Gurinder and Maharaji a few times within and at Satsang.


Bottomline I think you are totally and completely certifiable and everyone is far better off with you away from rssb / guru.

And it’s also what you want so we are all now v happy.

Party.. 🎉 🎊... Ice ice baby...

What is this fool wittering on about again - can someone pls summarize the sermon on the mount no 341 to a sentence or 2? I can’t read all that syrupy preaching, makes one ill.

The v persecutor and executioner is now envoking the law of karma - am I reading this right? Is it stunningly blind ignorance or just the funniest thing you ever heard. His son is helped by the v saint he’s hellbent on persecuting And he’s lecturing on karma. You can’t make it up.

All in for the high jump, no doubt.

Georgy, just join Ashby at I Hate Church of the Churchless.

Bottomline I think you are totally and completely certifiable and everyone is far better off with you away from rssb / guru.

And it’s also what you want so we are all now v happy.

Party.. 🎉 🎊... Ice ice baby...

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 11:23 PM

At this point, I don’t think RSSB would take you...

I feel really sorry for you. I know that sounds condescending, but I do truly feel sorry for you.

Georgy,

You should stop speaking for RSSB and their guru. You’re not an initiate and they have enough problems as it is. You’re an embarrassment to RSSB if people think devoted Satsangis act like you. Seriously, just stop.

There are a lot of decent Satsangis and your behavior doesn’t even come close to representing that. I may not like the organization but for the sake of all the sane and decent people who still belong to it, stop trying to speak for the guru or RSSB. You aren’t a Satsangi. And Satsangis aren’t anything like you. In fact, no conscientious person is.

You’ve said that you’ve never been initiated, you aren’t sure if you even believe in Saints, and not sure if you ever will get initiated because you don’t want to give up meat and alcohol and all of the other stuff you’re not supposed to do in order to get initiated.

You couldn’t be farther from being a Satsangi if you tried. Just stop representing them.

At least I’m truly honest about my feelings and who I am and I don’t hide behind some made up name. I’m not involved with RSSB, but you are as far away from that organization as anyone can be. I mean, you won’t get initiated simply because you don’t want to quit drinking and eating meat and sleeping around. How can you possibly condemn the rest of us?? You’re behavior is textbook schizophrenic.

Now, if you actually are a Satsangi and you’re on here with this made up name and made up story about who you are and you’re trying to defend the guru with your cursing, crudeness and continual bashing, well... that just looks REALLY, REALLY bad for them. Sadly enough, that’s probably closer to the truth. Either way you make RSSB and the Guru look really bad.

What is this fool wittering on about again - can someone pls summarize the sermon on the mount no 341 to a sentence or 2? I can’t read all that syrupy preaching, makes one ill.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 11:57 PM

Normally I always have a sense of humor—even when I’m angry I can still laugh about stuff.

But none of this is funny anymore. It’s just sad. It’s really, really sad the way you’re reacting. I don’t understand what your problem is. Again, I truly feel sorry for you. But you do need to stop trying to represent RSSB and the guru for everyone’s sake.

Thank you - no need to feel sorry for me. Just ignore me, I’ll be fine. Happy as a camper.

You the one crying consistently

No need to feel sorry - me and the 7 are partying 🎊 🎈 ... ice ice baby....

Don’t worry bout me, you must rather speak to syrupy Spence , forces Arjuna and kumbaya ACIM going forward - much better for everyone

The v persecutor and executioner is now envoking the law of karma - am I reading this right? Is it stunningly blind ignorance or just the funniest thing you ever heard. His son is helped by the v saint he’s hellbent on persecuting And he’s lecturing on karma. You can’t make it up.

All in for the high jump, no doubt.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 12:07 AM

Georgy, Spence was actually somewhat defending GSD. I mean, he was being very respectful of him at least. What did Spence sat that made you think he’s “hellbent on persecuting” Gurinder?

Sonia says: "Again, I truly feel sorry for you."

Sonia, I feel sorry for you actually. That you are so naive as to fall for Spence's syrupy, condescending and totally deceptive comments. Talk about a snake oil salesman!

You say: "Spence was actually somewhat defending GSD." Spence has never been a satsangi and never will be. He is a religious person and is spending his time on this blog simply to preach his own gospel. He is a trickster and it takes some time to see through his game. A few of us have realised how insincere he is and the game he is playing.

Gdam you are like a lost puppy I can’t get rid of.

Please go out there and embrace life. Throw your sadsack state of ‘woe is me’ away once and for all. Or else just hit the bottle and stop complaining - but just give me some peace already.

Dear lord I know I’ve not spoken to you recently or maybe ever but if you could grant me the serenity of getting this nutter off my back, I’d be eternally thankful, oh and it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to win the lottery also, but rather the first one if had to choose. 🙏 GP

Sonia

Be careful with people like Spence. Sometimes you will look and "what a jerk". His words against the master.

Be very careful I know you are enthusiastic but you are also very naive sister

A gospel preacher on an atheists site? Go figure

Hi Jen
I'm not sure why you continue to spread false accusations about me. I was initiated in Riverside California at the home of the local Sangat Secretary,
Dr. Roland DeVries (Doctor of divinity) in July, 1980. I remember the day I received my letter of acceptance, March 27th, 1980. As I opened the letter, I saw at that exact moment the news on my little black and white TV showed the billowing explosion of Mt. St. Helen's volcano. The Master was Burning my Karma for me! At least one huge portion of it!


I was brought to the path by Thomas Curtis when I was living in Northridge California, attending the University there.

You can view the video I made in homage to my mystic friend and mentor Tommy, after he passed away here...

https://youtu.be/mjpH0NRa1D0


I'm not sure why you indulge in false accusations. It's not very enlightened.

But it seems to be an almost automatic thing with you. And yet in your other personality you are very wise and Zen like! Where did my sister, Zen Jen go?

I'm praying for you, Jen.

Affectionately
Spence

Hi Georgy
You write
"can someone pls summarize the sermon on the mount no 341 to a sentence or 2? I can’t read all that syrupy preaching, makes one ill."

I'm sorry Georgy but I can't take responsibility for your illness.

However I can summarize as you have asked in two small sentances by the brilliant writer, Collette..

" Be kind. It is a way of being wise. "

Gdam you are like a lost puppy I can’t get rid of.

Please go out there and embrace life. Throw your sadsack state of ‘woe is me’ away once and for all. Or else just hit the bottle and stop complaining - but just give me some peace already.

Dear lord I know I’ve not spoken to you recently or maybe ever but if you could grant me the serenity of getting this nutter off my back, I’d be eternally thankful, oh and it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to win the lottery also, but rather the first one if had to choose. 🙏 GP

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 12:53 PM

Still feel sorry for you

Hi Spence,

Thanks for your lovely comment. I seem to be going through an emotional crisis nowadays. What you said has helped me a lot...

"But it seems to be an almost automatic thing with you. And yet in your other personality you are very wise and Zen like! Where did my sister, Zen Jen go?
I'm praying for you, Jen."

I'm off to see a Clinical Hypnotherapy & Psychotherapy Specialist with my daughter-in-law. The first time I saw him he helped me feel less anxious. Old age creeping on now, I just have to keep on keeping on...

There are rules to being a good helper. Rules developed by people whose job it is to help others, in any walk of life, in any situation. There is a lot of wisdom gained from a lot of experience in trying to do good works and to help people, people vastly different than ourselves. If you haven't helped others on a regular basis, if you have never learned these rules, you may not be familiar with those rules. And then, without realizing it, you may do more harm than good. Because your own nature, what life has taught you, may not be suited to helping other people.

I think it's great to help each other. But if it isn't your strength please don't react if others react unfavorably to your efforts.

You can get better at helping if you wish to work at it. There is a skill to it, like anything else. And don't feel bad if you're not good at it. But if that is so, then maybe be a little humble in your approach, and avoid making things worse.

And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup.

Hi Spencer and Osho.
As well as my readings on science I have also been exploring Zen and Chan. One of the more digestible authors for me is Zen teacher, Steve Hagen. His book 'Buddhism Is Not What You Think' has an enlightening take on belief. In the chapter 'We've Got It All Backward' he talks about belief. You probably know some of this, anyway, here's some of his pointers on religion and science:-

The word religion comes from 'religio' which meant 'to bind back very strongly to truth'.

It's about seeing or experiencing Truth – not about holding a set of beliefs.

Science (scire, to know) is also about getting to truth. Religion and science should be about knowledge.

Science needs belief to function in the form of a hypothesis which is initially tested, rejected or modified and tested again until it arrives at the truth – that is relative, practical, everyday truth.
He points out “Religion is not equipped to test hypothesis” and “It needn't and shouldn't make hypothesis or rely on beliefs of any kind”. “In short, science is well positioned to handle belief. Religion is not.”

Quite often, when someone takes a believers point of view and another a non-believers, it can often be the case of two believers arguing there different views.

He comments on how all religions indulge in various beliefs causing “ . . . human delusion and folly.” Hence religions fight one another and science. And “. . . all religion needs to require of people is an urgent desire to know, to see, to wake up.”

Science then, is not about ultimate truth but with every day truth while religion is about waking up through direct experiencing – that is, before “ . . . beliefs, thoughts, signs, explanations, justifications, and other constructions of our minds take form”. Of course it's all very much in the flavour of Zen but I notice that teachings in Taoism and Sufism – not to mention some findings in modern psychology, mindfulness and neuroscience – also point to an enquiry into these matters which does not require belief.

Hi Georgy
You write
"And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup."

It is true you are sick from a life of Sweets. But it has made you intolerant and easily angered by hard truths. So, there is only the softer variety for you. The stuff we feed to very small children. It comes in a jar. Has a bit of sugar in it. But this pudding was a real vegetable at one point.

And as you are ill and need to eat, please. Your Master has prepared the meal appropriate for children of your age and temperment. The sickly ones who suffer colic and are generally ill tempered and can't get out of bed to take their first steps.

But there is nothing false in any of it.

Eat the meal you requested, Georgy. Do you not remember? How easily they forget!

And about complaining, please consider taking your own advice.

Hi Turan!
Steve Hagan sounds interesting! I'll give him a read.

Thanks for bringing him up.

Spence

Hi Jen!
We know who the real Jen is. She is very powerful, wise and compassionate. She is enlightened, not limited in the least by any health restrictions, waiting in silence, whispering gently to you occasionally, infinitely patient through this part of the tour here. When it ends, she will be. That is why these days are of little consequence.

Hi Jen,

Best of luck with hypnotherapy and treatments (I’m not sure what else you’re taking or doing to manage this).

After your last experience with it I really want to give it a try. Just have to find someone locally that has good reviews. I’m going for more tests per doctors orders this week. But I’m not worried. Not now anyway. 🙂

And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 07:37 PM

You are the Willy Wonka of all things sweet.

This sums up the ridiculousness of everything happening lately - politics and religion.

https://youtu.be/ZxIIv6uQY6k

UM offered this thought:

"" Question remains … why do They initiate people that don't have that pull etc??
No music pedagogue will ever start teaching with a person without talent

If the music teacher had several lives for planning his lessons,
He would

Some Jeevas are initiated because some other Satsangi's desire, even because they delivered service
or
remember the flower a Saint trapped on ( ""accidently?""_ No )

next a fine birth is arranged for them
where the necessary pull can flourish
because without Love for music nothing happens

It is good not to go in this precisely because it might give birth to "status"!

777

Spence,
I've been watching your video tribute to Tommy. He was really in the flow, and sovereignparrot.com is still up and running. I attended general satsang in L.A. a few times in the late 80's. I didn't know Maria or him, but it's possible we were in the same room.

And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 07:37 PM

You’re a sociopath path and I’m an empath. We both act crazy but for completely different reasons.

You have the lowest capacity for empathy of any individual I’ve encountered.

You better get initiated before there’s a new Master that is actually sweet and kind because I know you couldn’t handle that. The only reason you like GSD is because he too lacks empathy.

To be fair, he’s a narcissistic sociopath whereas your just a sociopath so your chances for recovery are a bit higher.

@777

>>If the music teacher had several lives for planning his lessons, he would> because without Love for music nothing happens
It is good not to go in this precisely because it might give birth to "status"!<<

?????

Very likely, Anami!

Also, Anami
All the Egyptian and Asian artwork was Tommy's.

@ spence

After seeing the video in memory of Mr. Curtis, I wondered that nothing or almost nothing of what was shown in that video related to Sant Mat and the followers of those days, things that it made it so attractive to join, is still alive.

I don't know of people that make Sant Mat cartoons and poems these days as it was done in those days.

Well his nephew walked his talk from the first days, that he would end, the growing of the plant that gets to much, sun, water etc so that it cannot stand on its own.

BTW

With immediate effect the February Hostel 6 session has been cancelled.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

@UM
That was the best I could , really . . .

@Jen who is Sonia s subject
"Best of luck with hypnotherapy and treatments "

me:
This Path is so beautiful and full of humour
The Therapist might be initiated by your uttering !
Might be a fourth live(r)

777

GP--

Yikes!! I may have been wrong in my assessment. GSD possesses all of these traits (partly because he believes he has the "God-given" right to).

Psychopathic researchers found that psychopaths often have these common traits:

-Lack of empathy, guilt, conscience or remorse
-Shallow experiences of feelings or emotions
-Impulsivity and a weak ability to defer gratification and control behavior
-Superficial charm and glibness
-Irresponsibility and a failure to accept responsibility for their actions
-A grandiose sense of their own worth

Spence, just watched that video about Tommy again, like a walk down memory lane reminding me of my brother who hitchhiked practically around the world and ended up eventually at the Dera, came home and told Mum and I about Charan and we both became initiated whilst living in South Africa.
Gosh, I miss those magical times.

Thanks for praying for me, I seem to have lost the plot for some time now and here I am back to being my old 'spiritual' self.

Cheers
Jen

Sonia I hope you see how sad and desperate you are sounding. It’s like a drowning man who can’t help but fall deeper.

Tom Curtis would never have stooped to come proselytize his psycho concoctions on a pseudo atheists anti RSSB haters site.

Pity that Spence doesn't emulate the type of spirit and simplicity of pure humility and deeper integrity in human nature that his mentor portrayed.

He'd do far better to take a more positive humble approach and try be as good a disciple as Tommy was than the pseudo bunkum gobbledygook that gets so lavishly and extraneously put out like endless streams of schizo fodder to try making himself look good in the eyes of the anti GSD / RSSB exers club, and his new found gaggle of pseudo 'saints'.

Sonia I hope you see how sad and desperate you are sounding. It’s like a drowning man who can’t help but fall deeper.

Posted by: Shalini | February 07, 2020 at 02:05 PM

Get initiated. Or stop doing whatever it is that is preventing you from getting initiated (like being on this blog). Clearly you are only on this site because RSSB and the guru have rejected you. You sound sadly pathetic.

You were rejected TWICE??? So sad... that's almost IMPOSSIBLE to do. LOL

And Shalini, RSSB sets the bar pretty low for initiation so the fact that you’ve been rejected TWICE makes me wonder how messed up you must be.

I’m not holding back in hypocritical initiate wanna be’s anymore. Get your shit together enough to get initiated and then come back here and tell me what’s wrong with me.

BTW

With immediate effect the February Hostel 6 session has been cancelled.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 07, 2020 at 10:25 AM

Yayyyyy

BTW

With immediate effect the February Hostel 6 session has been cancelled.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 07, 2020 at 10:25 AM

As if ANYONE on this thread was even thinking about going... 🤷‍♀️

No need to tell us March or October or December are cancelled too. Who cares

Hi Um
Yes, Tommy had a personal, 1:1 relationship with Maharaji. They wrote letters back and forth, ate dinners together.Maharaji came to visit Tommy.

And I had a 1:1 relationship with Tommy.

It's a very simple and very personal process.

If the Sant Satguru doesn't live up to your image, one solution could be to become an even truer Saint in your own right. Shape yourself into the Perfect Master, according to your ideal.

As if ANYONE on this thread was even thinking about going... 🤷‍♀️

No need to tell us March or October or December are cancelled too. Who cares

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 07, 2020 at 06:05 PM

Look who is talk!!!!!!!!

@ 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

Thanks for sharing.

Steve, you’re such a smart one...

@ 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

After Georgy’s last rant the other day where he literally told me to fck off half a dozen times and stay away from RSSB and the guru, I wouldn’t go to the Dera if it was the last safe place on earth during a Zombie apocalypse.

And everyone knows that “Georgy” is an initiate.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.