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February 29, 2020

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Faith and believe are two different things idd.

The Art of 'not knowing' is great..

It's silly to think we can know the ''Unknown''..

<3

There is great strength in confidence. And great weakness in conviction.

Confidence leads us forward. We are confident enough to learn and grow, make course corrections, because we have faith in the fundamental belief in our development. We move in a direction towards a general but undefined objective, and take a few turns along the way, like the surfer allegory. We think we're going along side the shore, but we are moving closer to the shore all the time. And then the road leads us. The wave leads us. And when it subsides we find another, and ride that. Discovery is our guide. Discovery, our perfect Master.

Faith in our development and in Discovery means a number of things.
1. If we've done our job of being mindful, considerate, inclusive of new people and their perspectives, we won't think the same things we think today. There will be growth.

2. So long as we remain honest students, we will make progress.

"God have you two ears and one mouth, son. Listen, learn, twice as much as you speak."
Dad

"Good doesn't need me to pray to him with my issues. He's busy."
Dad

It's silly to think we can know the ''Unknown''..

<3

Posted by: s* | March 01, 2020 at 05:26 AM

What's the 'Unknown'? At a scientific level the creation and it's constituents or anything beyond this?

Knowing the creator and you know all about the creation and it's constituents.

And it isn't silly to think we cannot know the creator i.e. go far beyond faith and beliefs.

People might think that ferocious and poisonous animals only live in forests etc; that there are no cobra's in the USA and europe. But they are …. not as physical appearance but as socio- cultural creatures.

Those who have faught their battle with the wild animals in their surroundings have overcome that innate fear of survival, inplanted in creatures as instincts.

The same holds for those who had their fight with the cultural, mental, spiritual powers and survived. They lose that fear of extinction, inplanted in all.

The rest can only overcome that fear by believing on powers that do that fight for them …
the saviours.

The more neurotic inclined will tend to hold onto believes more rigidly than others.

Who is there to blame??
Nobody can stand up against that power of the instincts.

Probably only those who can focus on what is at hand, in every moment of the day, can free them selves of that fear

Yayyy! You got the book. I love it too! Hazelton is an amazing writer. She has a unique ability to shine the light on long worn out phrases helping you to see them in 3D... so to speak. 😊

...or worn out ideas I should say. Language has to be “refreshed” to communicate an idea more effectively as time goes by. If we keep repeating the same old thoughts and ideas and beliefs in the same rote manner, we will soon lose our understanding and/or true appreciate of the real messages those “strings of words” are meant to convey.

And if we don’t understand what we’re actually saying then we’re just parroting dogma.

Like the absurd belief in an eternal lake of fire. Most Christian faiths still have that written into their set of beliefs. And since people hear these terms from the time they’re born, they never stop to think about how insane that belief is. It’s like “accept Jesus or burn for all of eternity”. Seriously?! If that’s one of the main pillars of your belief system, then you should probably be questioning your faith.

There are more examples from other faiths. Things that people should really think about.

It sounds to me that Lesley Hazelton has identified our most urgent problem. She mentions how Samuel Johnson sees an attack on his beliefs as an attack on his identity. I recall reading of a clergyman who similarly said that any criticism of his beliefs feels like an actual physical attack. This is interesting and a clue to how we experience much of our anxiety, confusion and conflict.

Evidently, our beliefs and opinions are part of the knowledge and information we have accrued since birth. Simply put, this information is mind and is where we derive our identity from. Known as the 'self', 'me', 'I' or ego, to criticise any of this mind content is to attack the very core of who I (believe) I am.

As humans we find it hard to live with uncertainty. Most creatures strive for physical security but we have taken it to the mental level. To maintain the 'I', the 'ego', we seem to have invested greatly in the stories we tell ourselves about who I am – the illusory 'me'. The ego then is perpetually at war with anything (or one) that questions or criticises it.

Hence we live in a state of conflict and insecurity, not only with others but with ourselves. Apparently, our only escape from this mental 'merry-go- round' is to see this mind – with all its contents – for what it is.

@ Turan
Those who do sports like Judo etc know that one should not lean on others but stand firmly on ones own legs, grounded.

Those who are commited, have sound faith and hold on to their chosen goal might not teach that goal as that goal doesn't exist … but on their way to finding out for themselves, they are calm inside…. need not to advocate their [spiritual]goals nor defend it.

Beliefs can not be out-stretched, in particular reference to God till the last breath. It requires inner conviction at some point in time in a life cycle and if the God provides it through some means as by means of a living Master or ones firm reverence of God and His creation or else regularly or only sometimes or even once it is suffice to accept the belief as Truth.

If God does not help out then one can do nothing.

We are just helpless either in disbelief or half beliefs or 99.999.. percent beliefs about Him but surely not 100 % due to inner non conviction.

But His power is immense. He may end a life cycle on a pleasant note despite our curtailed beliefs for obvious reasons and this is that never lets us shed our beliefs, which may be near firm or accurate.

Lets be obsessed with doing good, thinking good than God belief alone. The path to reach Him also goes through our love and lovable actions for fellow travellers. It does not matter if one is an atheist or a believer.

Soren Kierkegaard never used the term "leap of faith" but referred to a qualitative leap. About it, he said: “Thinking can turn toward itself in order to think about itself and skepticism can emerge. But this thinking about itself never accomplishes anything." The term was about taking positive action rather than stewing over religious ideation and doing nothing.

I get it that Hazleton wants to condemn fundamentalism, but in rallying Kierkegaard to his defence he seems off the mark. Anyway what the heck does "embrace an openminded faith" mean?

Evidently, our beliefs and opinions are part of the knowledge and information we have accrued since birth. Simply put, this information is mind and is where we derive our identity from. Known as the 'self', 'me', 'I' or ego, to criticise any of this mind content is to attack the very core of who I (believe) I am.

Posted by: Turan | March 03, 2020 at 09:35 AM

This is probably the 'as is' position of every individual being. Is this the reality as well? Am I the Mind? Am I just an 'information bank' ? How does intuition / sixth sense fit in? What is the other voice that we often hear within us?

"If God does not help out then one can do nothing.

We are just helpless either in disbelief or half beliefs or 99.999.. percent beliefs about Him but surely not 100 % due to inner non conviction.

But His power is immense. He may end a life cycle on a pleasant note despite our curtailed beliefs for obvious reasons and this is that never lets us shed our beliefs, which may be near firm or accurate.

Lets be obsessed with doing good, thinking good than God belief alone. The path to reach Him also goes through our love and lovable actions for fellow travellers. It does not matter if one is an atheist or a believer."

Posted by: Meditator | March 03, 2020 at 12:31 PM

One day after Satsang I got the chance to meet a famed satsangi by the name of David Lane. I had visited one of his websites on the fly and randomly just like finding this one. It was a pleasure to be in the company of another heir to the Great Maharaj Ji.

Mr. Lane embraced me as a newcomer, and just before I left a stranger by the name of Colin told me he too was familiar with the Great Maharaj Ji. I quickly asked him if any other heirs were vocal on the World Wide Web. As Church of the Churchless was the last known site I found with others.

He could tell me of none but did state that even though the well known writer of the book Life is Fair seemed distant, he once knew him to be a more ardent follower than any, even himself.

That reminded me of a RSSB teaching I had just read:

(paraphrasing) "Maharaj Ji may allow the strings to lengthen or even seeming allow the disciples to go astray, but the inner hidden form whether seen or not is always pulling them closer, and closer, to eventually reach the goal."

@ Rachmaan

If one is not a Christian there is no heaven for them in the afterlife
That is more or less the same for Muslims.
If one believes these things then there is no nirvana of the Buddhists
If one is not following that one and only guru, teacher etc one is following a false with all the consequences.
etc etc.

Who is to find the truth of all these claims of followers of all these religions and mystic paths in one life time?

(paraphrasing) "Maharaj Ji may allow the strings to lengthen or even seeming allow the disciples to go astray, but the inner hidden form whether seen or not is always pulling them closer, and closer, to eventually reach the goal."

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | March 07, 2020 at 01:44 AM

@Karim,

Can't recollect who posted it but it was the following

From the time of initiation, when the Master takes over the charge of a soul, he is more anxious than the soul to see it installed on the throne of bliss and peace. Even if the devotee, through some chance, leaves the Master or loses faith in him, he, on his part, never leaves. He will someday bring the devotee on the path again. His mission is to take souls up, and a soul once initiated is never deserted. This is the law."

Maharaj Sawan Singh, The Dawn of Light

Sd/-

Sath_Path

"Who is to find the truth of all these claims of followers of all these religions and mystic paths in one life time?"

Posted by: um | March 07, 2020 at 09:21 AM

I did read in one of Maharaj Ji's master's books on how a disciple can reach Sach Khand within 4 human births. Then later I heard someone ask Shri Gurinder Singh Ji Dhillon the same question, and master replied that "anyone willing to partake the science of surat-shabd yog could complete it all in but 1 human birth -right here and now in the present" (again paraphrasing).

I try to keep the faith that I did hear him right.

@ Mr Rahmaan

English is not my mother tongue so things can go wrong.

What I intended with "in ONE life" was, that in this short span of life, the possibilities in terms of different paths of spirituality etc, that are offered, is so enorm that it is difficult, if not impossible, to sift the true ones from the false ones. And …. A true path can also be preached by a false teacher.

What you wrote is something else.
It is the answer to the question about how long it takes for the goal of this particular path to be reached. You are right, it is indeed the point of view of this master and his predecessor.

If you have faith in it, that problem of finding the truth lies behind you; you have found your path. Having found it, MCS advised to practise it faithfully and devotedly, to the complete exclusion of everything else. If the mind keeps wavering between this and that form of meditation, keeps studying and making researches here and there then it lacks faith and has not become still and motionless.

An wise advise, probably one that every teacher of any genuine path would give.

"Having found it, MCS advised to practise it faithfully and devotedly, to the complete exclusion of everything else. If the mind keeps wavering between this and that form of meditation, keeps studying and making researches here and there then it lacks faith and has not become still and motionless.

An wise advise, probably one that every teacher of any genuine path would give."

Posted by: Um | March 08, 2020 at 03:28 AM

Yes, life is short and life is fair. Two great concepts.

Faith, or absolute open-minded faith is core to Islam the religion I was born of. Faith in Allah or Kun His ability to give or take His graces as taught by Sufis such as Rumi are very difficult I think. The Koran gives emphasis on developing faith every day.

By prayer, right living, right diet, and continuous remembrance helps to increase faith.

In Sant Mat, books like Spiritual Letters help to remind me on the importance of meditation in Simran, Bhajan on Shabd and why Satsang also helps to remind me to learn stillness, forgiveness, generosity, and cooperation.

From my pov, agnosticism is a description of knowledge. Strictly speaking , we are all "agnostics" metaphysically speaking. Sure, one can say that say with certainty that the physical is all that exists or vice versa. But it really wouldn't be "knowledge" or justified true belief. Metaphysics, wherever you are with that, is a matter of belief or "faith" if you prefer.

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