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January 05, 2020

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I think psychedelics can be a great aid. We are stuck in our habitual thought processes and psychedelics serve to break up this patterning and reassemble or eliminate these allowing a fresh perspective from a different more comprehensive realm of consciousness. We have been hearing this for quite a few decades now since the days of Huxley and Leary, and of course various cultures have known about this through the ages.

Anything potent enough to be life-changing does come with some risk. Re-assemblage sometimes does not integrate harmoniously and difficulties can be enhanced. This is generally avoided by proper preparation in regard to environment, purpose and associates who have your best interest as their intention.

"Michael Pollan: I did have this experience of seeing my ego-- burst into-- a little cloud of Post-It notes. I know it sounds crazy."

Yes. This break-up can be frightening but if it is not resisted, if the pieces are allowed to blow away as by a breeze in the park, what remains is what we have been seeking all along, what has been all along. It was always right here as the place between seeing and the moment when what was seen becomes a memory.

Psychedelics will certainly change your perspective on reality regardless of who you are. I actually credit psilocybin and LSD with helping me break free from main stream religion. However, there is a downside. I believe these chemicals can create states of consciousness within the brain that point to an alternate reality—one you weren’t nurtured to accept. But LSD, shrooms, what have you don’t always give you the full story. And in some cases they can be more detrimental than “main stream religion”.

I was always afraid of the dark—most kids are. I would sneak into my older brother’s room to feel safe from whatever monsters I imagined to be lurking in my room at night.

It wasn’t until I was much older that I understood myself and my own “programming” well enough to understand why psychedelics had a particular effect on me. The positive side of my experience in using psychedelics was that I was profoundly articulate. And this isn’t just my personal opinion but based on comments from other people. Somewhere inside of me there was this voice trying desperately to get out.

The down side to psychedelics in my personal experience (and it’s always unique to each individual) was that for the first time in my life I felt truly alone. I remember thinking I’ve felt every emotion under the sun from extreme depression to intense anger to complete elation but had never felt loneliness. Not once in my life did I ever remember feeling lonely. In fact, solitude was always the answer to any negative emotion I felt. I also felt elation at any opportunity to spend several days alone. But those opportunities were few.

Fast forward to the last trip I had—I was with a friend that happened to be living in an apartment next to the day care center my mom took me to as a baby. About 15 minutes into the trip I knew I was in serious trouble. I called my younger brother who came and got me. Around him I felt safe. He took me to my parents house where he was living, naturally, since he was a senior in high school. I was able to calm down but when he fell asleep I felt alone and I kept waking him up.

Years later I discovered why psychedelics had the effect of making me feel alone. They always tell you (as silly as it is) not to look in the mirror while you’re tripping. Of course I did, but the only thing different was my eyes looked really large. But what they failed to tell me was never google your birth date! I did that the last time I had a major chemical shift and the feeling of isolation was so severe I had to go to the hospital and get sedatives. I remember a psychologist at the hospital asking me what was the last thought I had thought about or the last thing I did before this profound sense of separation came over me and I felt too stupid to tell him it was when I googled my birth date and year.

Let me back up for a minute. It’s important to know that when I was born there was another baby girl born in the same room with the same name but different by one letter. I grew up with a sense of ”not belonging” because I didn’t look like anyone in the family—not at all. To compound that my father continuously said, half-jokingly, that I wasn’t his daughter and both of my grandmothers would comment on how I didn’t look like anyone in the family. And my mother’s mother would said it disapprovingly.

Fast forward to lots of therapy and finally a therapist who suggested I should get a DNA test. So I ordered one for $100. My DNA doesn’t match my family’s and yet they refuse to talk about it. I don’t press the issue because I’m still psychologically a child around my parents and it doesn’t seem worth the fight to upset them.

The best way I can describe my worst experience on psychedelics would be to take a baby away from its mother and put it completely on its own for a period of time. A baby in the womb recognizes its mother as “God”. It has no formed concepts beyond what it perceives. So this isolation is one of terror. One of being completely cut off from “God”. Newborns are far more sensitive and dependent than many people realize or acknowledge.

Today I understand this better yet I still can’t get the questions answered because it troubles my parents too much to talk about.

Psychedelics uncovered this “realization” for me but only with perception and feeling. They didn’t give me the knowledge I needed to understand and cope with these intense feelings. From the time I was born until this very day rejection has always equaled death to me. I hate being ignored and am incapable of ignoring others because of an acute sensitivity to the suffering it can cause others. Luckily my husband had a similar experience of abandonment as a child, and the one thing he has never done is ignore me—no matter how insane my behavior was.

My point is, psychedelics can be mind opening in a profound and beautiful way. But if you have experienced any suppressed traumas that you have no access to information about it can rip your mind apart. In some people this can do more damage than good. That’s why, quite honestly, I think it would be better to try to achieve certain states of enlightenment through some sort of meditation process where you can gently peel back the layers of your illusory self without being thrust into a potentially traumatic situation (like a really bad trip).

If Surat Shab Yoga actually does what they say it does, then I think it would be a lot safer than using psychedelics.

Yep, if ppl know they are on their way out, I’ve always wondered why not let them have these experiences or highs if they want them.

Is it not better to go via a drug OD than to sufferer, or worse watching others having to suffer, in a drawn-out process?

Why aren’t drug laws suspended? If you are at that stage, probably doesn’t make an iota of difference what the drug laws say anyway.

It sounds like some BDE ..experience.

I'm not a fan of drugs. But in my son's case they have become a critical part of his daily life and well being. I like to think a natural approach is best, but I wash my hands with soap, I fly in jets a couple times a week, my entire work life is documented in the cloud.

So the natural argument has become meaningless. There are imbalances in life and health. Whatever helps the body and brain function in balance with minimal side effect is, to me, a good. And for many people, critical for their well being.

Meditation is a great method to deal with anxiety and can produce much the same experiences reported in the psilocybin studies. But there are circumstances where anxiety is so great, it is impossible for most folks to sit for meditation. To reach that level where we maintain our peace of mind under all circumstances through meditation is appropriate for those of us who have made it our lifestyle, our primary career.

But it's nice to see human progress in developing alternatives for a broader group of humanity.

Psychedelics promote schizophrenia and other unhinged brain functions

Should be avoided, they don't enhance spiritual development or perception

They can provide alternative state of mind but they are mentally projected exposure to thought processes, not anything that can be controlled or maintained by the recipient of the hallucinogenic substance.

These so called 'highs' are ephemeral mental conditions they are called hallucinations for a reason because that's what they are.

They don't strengthen willpower if anything they do more damage than good.

Such drugs may have therapeutic value but can not replace the natural spiritual experience whether in meditation or without. To me should be avoided lest it becomes habitual and troubling.

Hi Whodonit
You wrote
"Psychedelics promote schizophrenia and other unhinged brain functions

" Should be avoided, they don't enhance spiritual development or perception

They do have a bad history. But like mold on bread that helped spread disease and death in centuries past, and now is the basis of Penicillin that saves lives, many modern and refined medications are essential to health and well being. In fact modern drugs for schizophrenia and other forms of psychoses are nothing short of miraculous. Perhaps Psilocybin is next up for refinement and adjustment, and will turn out to be a life changer for good.

to Whodunit:

Are you sure?

On the whole, I’d agree, but if you at death’s door, and the grim reaper’s a calling your name, and there’s not a good Gdam left for medical science to do - how about then ? Does it matter if it buggers you up or not, as you already buggered.

I guess if your at a stage of being some kinda adept where you can control your mind through meditation - you don’t need drugs - but for normal schmo’s - why not?

Hit me with the triple LSD doc and let me check out what Huxley was on about!

Alpert gave his guru Neem Karoli Baba 900mg of potent acid which would blow most people's heads into neverland and nothing happened.

The lesson was that it's not the chemical that produces the permanent awareness or the awakened mind. There are better more controlled and more substantial measures to arrive at such states and definitely less neurologically damaging.

lol - I wonder if that story is true.

Yip

I'm definitely no doctor and even less of a neurologist or neuro scientist, but I reckon if it takes a mind altering substance to free the mind from attachment to pain and anxiety then why do we suffer those consequences of conditions to begin with?

If the body is the field of action where excess pleasure begets suffering are we becoming less prone to paying for our repercussions simply by ingesting substance that alleviate the consequences?

Why not then legalize euthanasia (which in some society they already have done). If pain gets too overwhelming simply allow assisted suicide, then the easy way becomes the more comfortable option.

Perhaps my logic is flawed, I don't really know where natural remedies for human health ailments begin or end.

lol - I wonder if that story is true.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | January 06, 2020 at 11:50 AM

Me too

If the story wasn't true then as a doctor (professor) at Harvard University Alpert told a bald faced lie, because it's documented in his book and on his record, and told in lectures around the US.

The guru asked when they first got acquainted "where's the yoga medicine". Alpert wasn't sure what he was asking, but Karoli held out his hand and suggested he hand the stuff over.

So he took out one cap 300mg and Karoli kept his hand out, so he gave another 300mg cap, and Karoli said that he should give the rest. So he gave a third 300mg cap and the guru swallowed all of it.

Alpert waited for the psychedelic trip to take effect but nothing happened, they continued normal conversation and I think it was a big factor in Alperts convincing of Karoli's authenticity.

Well, even GSD has gone through chemo along with other treatments for health problems. He’s had lots of health issues naturally due to stress.

So, RSSBs stance on medicine is that it’s fine. They’re just not advocates of mind altering substances and things that can potentially destroy your health like smoking. They should probably talk a little more about jalebis...

However, if you’re chemistry is so altered that it can only be brought to “normal” through the use of medication prescribed by acdoctor then that’s different. And the difference is those prescribed medications are intended to stabilize and normalize your brain chemistry—certainly not to alter your brain chemistry. That’s a big difference. I can tell you though, there are naturopathic medicines that when mixed together in a certain way can REALLY alter your brain chemistry. I could give you some formulas of potions you can create from over the counter products at Whole Foods that are just as powerful as the ones drug companies make! 😂 But they haven’t been tested and they still have side effects. Yes, naturopathic medicine has side effects too!

And because one cannot predict the outcome of an hallucinogenic trip, it could actually make the “patient” worse off. It could possibly help them but it definitely could harm them and there is no way to predict the result as it varies dramatically from person to person.

Instead of psychedelics for anxiety or depression, how about a mood stabilizer—something that will bring your brain back to where it should be—NORMAL. If a normal person took a mood stabilizer it would mess up their brain chemistry but when someone who needs it takes it then three medicine just normalizes them. Klonipin is a good one—can relieve anxiety without need to increase dosage for years if necessary in severe cases. It can easily be tapered off... but very slowly under doctors care. Xanax, Valium and Ativan can be more addictive so a safe doctor is more cautious in prescribing them but they have their merits. And antidepressants don’t cause one to hallucinate, they can have negative side effects in some but it’s all trial and error.

Anyway, that was a bit of a rant. I think the key is, if you’re suffering any sort of illness—physical or mental—then medication is a good thing to bring your body back to a normal state.

Naturopathic medicine isn’t morally any better or even any more pure than a lot of allopathic medicines. They are ALL medicines—even the food you eat.

I’m not advocating RS in general but I do strongly agree with their stance on no mind altering drugs, alcohol or smoking. Clearly because those things do hurt people. Opiates are fine for severe pain for a limited time and only with doctors prescription. And CBD does seem to help a lot of people who need pain medication for long term illnesses—not sure how trippy it is on a high dose... 🤔

That was my sermon. I apologize. It was obnoxious but I get worried when people demonize allopathic medicine. I get even more worried when the wrong person gets the wrong dose of a hallucinogen and makes a one way trip to never never land.

One more thing—food is one of the main culprits of disease when people eat too much (obesity—which is 2/3 of America) it wrecks absolute havoc on the body leading to all kinds of disease that you’ll end up needing all kinds of medicine for. I don’t believe in fat shaming at all. But I don’t think it can be stressed enough how harmful being overweight is for your health.

And then some people aren’t overweight but they never eat fresh fruit or vegetables just healthy stuff in general. Fried foods bad. Vegetables AMAZING!!!

So... if you made it to the end of this comment we just went from Psilocybin to vegetables. Actually, mushrooms might be a vegetable. 🤔

Sonia wrote: " Actually, mushrooms might be a vegetable." 🤔

-- they are fungi.

Whodunit wrote: "Perhaps my logic is flawed,"

-- Well, it is not impressive., i.e. " I reckon if it takes a mind altering substance to free the mind from attachment to pain and anxiety then why do we suffer those consequences of conditions to begin with?"

-- Well, it is not impressive., i.e. " I reckon if it takes a mind altering substance to free the mind from attachment to pain and anxiety then why do we suffer those consequences of conditions to begin with?"

Posted by: tucson | January 06, 2020 at 04:13 PM

I think it’s karma that causes us to suffer but it’s God’s grace that allows us medicine for these conditions. We cause our own suffering but God’s mercy helps us get through it.

@Whodu Vudu

What was your experience with LSD? Was it eye opening in any way? Did you have any good experiences, bad experiences or both? You certainly seem to know a lot about it. I had a friend who took God knows how much acid in eye drop formed and tripped for 48 hours yet he remained rather sane and normal afterwards. But he said it got really old after a while. I believe your mind can build a “tolerance” hallucinogenics after a while. Mine did. It became more annoying than illuminating after a while.

I thought LSD was the greatest drug known to man the first time I tried it. Then had an endless supply of shrooms. A roommate cultivated them and we had an abundant supply on hand in the 8,000 square foot warehouse that 4 of us shared. It was very much an Andy Warhol experience—raves in our basement and a huge art gallery in the store front area.

To tell you the truth I took so much LSD and shrooms that I eventually became really bored of the experiences. It was almost annoying towards the end. And then I had that one really bad trip that changed everything.

I know you’re not going to respond as you seem to have a “thing” but I hope this resonates with other readers on this blog.

Yes, I believe in mercy and grace and forgiveness which don’t seem to be tenets of the Sant Mat faith.

“You are what you believe.”

If the body is the field of action where excess pleasure begets suffering are we becoming less prone to paying for our repercussions simply by ingesting substance that alleviate the consequences?

Posted by: Whodunit | January 06, 2020 at 11:55 AMH

Oh, that’s right, I almost forgot you’re all about karma, judgement, retribution and suffering.

Thank you, Kaal, for your contribution to this post. 🙄

Is Whodunit a nickname for Kaal?? Why did GSD’s wife suffer so gravely? Abdominal surgery is a bitch especially when their are complications. I suppose you believe she deserved it in order to “pay for her sins/karma”.

I remember GSD saying in an evening meeting, at a time when he was going through chemo and looked gravely I’ll, that the saints have no karma. He wanted to let the sangat know that he was faultless, had no karma and wasn’t suffering because of anything he might have done.

As bizarrely insane as that sounds, he truly believes he is above the law and incapable of error.

He sits in judgement and does not believe in any such thing as forgiveness. I can’t name a single saint in history who thought this way. The only reference I have for that type of thinking is the RSSB archetypal Kaal. It seems GSD worships Kaal more than his own master, Charan, who actually understood the meaning of grace.

A fascinating 15 min talk on psilocybin and it’s connection to spiritual experiences

https://youtu.be/81-v8ePXPd4

@ In fact modern drugs for schizophrenia and other forms of psychoses are
@ nothing short of miraculous. Perhaps Psilocybin is next up for refinement
@ and adjustment, and will turn out to be a life changer ...

Hm, I don't disagree in theory but I sense over-prescription of "wonder"
drugs has become a malaise of our times. Consider doctors, and not
just the most avaricious, routinely and questionably prescribing opiates
for doubtful maladies. Or even ritalin for "hyper active" kids which as
reached epidemic levels. Ritalin use tripled in just five years (90-95) and
five-fold in recent years. So too are risky sedatives for dementia and
Alzheimer patients to keep them "calm and manageable".

Alternatives to most "miracle drugs" should be given priority in my
opinion. Over reliance on quick remedies and hype from medical
"authorities" about them can be harmful to health. God help those
raring to volunteer for psilocybin trials.

One study's author concluded:

"Americans have a tendency, more than any other nation on this Earth
I think, to want to pathologize behavior which they do not understand
or which they have no patience for."

"To tell you the truth I took so much LSD and shrooms that I eventually became really bored of the experiences"

Sonia, your comments are very confusing to me. Are you a satsangi? Were you ever a satsangi? Following the rules - vegetarian, no alcohol or mind altering drugs, living a moral lifestyle, meditation. Which Master initiated you? I ask because I have never known initiates, even ex-satsangis to be so very immersed in mind altering drugs like you seem to be. You also don't even know how to spell the negative power called Kal. Never heard anyone else calling him Kaal.

The atheist will take the 'God' equation out of the formula

So in a 'scientific' world its 'OK' to take mind altering substance as a panacea for physical or psychological ailments.

Where do we draw the line between acceptable drug use and harmful?

Huxley Leary Alpert even Castaneda with his natural mescaline all experimented with it, even advocating it as means to get beyond suffering, or at least take a look at mental states that through disassociated aloofness via chemical adjustment to the brain the mind trips out of its body consciousness to alleviate the physical condition.

Meditation practice says get the permanent high, the chemical induced high not only is addictive and hallucinogenic its also mentally damaging and disruptive to a permanent solution.

"Michael Pollan: Magic mushrooms and LSD could help solve mental health crisis | ITV News - YouTube" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LHIUcch4ISc

Pollan could be associated as the modern Leary, brave enough to explore the world of modern psychedelics in experiment with his own experiences.

In a psychiatric framework it can be used productively, as a self medicating experience you're dicing with mental instability, as a recreational stimulus to enhance feelings of excitement or ecstatic experience it's delving into its potential for negative effects.

As responsible research it's OK to do the experiment. As a

Jen,

Kaal Bhairav is a Hindu deity, a fierce manifestation of Shiva associated with annihilation. Other RS groups spell it that way sometimes so I kind of like it.

I was initiated by Gurinder and followed all the vows intensely for 13 years.

My husband was initiated by Charan so he’s had a completely different experience with Sant Mat. I’m sure if I had been initiated by Charan I would still be following Sant Mat. Charan is far more powerful that “Kal”. Gurinder has never made it past Trikuti and that’s what makes him unfit to be an RS master.

Every line has to end somewhere. Why did Charan appoint Gurinder? Maybe the Masters aren’t perfect masters when they are first given the role. Maybe they have the potential and are expected to grow into it but there are no guarantees.

Andrew always had questions about Gurinder until I got initiated and he didn’t want to discourage me. He always said he’s glad he was initiated by Charan. He doesn’t speak anything more about it though. Like I said he never defends GSD but he doesn’t attack him.

I wouldn’t either if I wasn’t convinced he’s Kal.

And I stopped using mind altering drugs way before I knew about Sant Mat. I have’s used them since my 20s. Other than alcohol. And I only drank maybe two or three times a month before I became at satsangi. Antidepressants, anti-anxiety medications and anything prescribed by a medical doctor is not mind altering. Mind altering substances are illegal in America, Jen. Except for marijuana which is only legal in certain states and last time I used that was 20 years ago.

I know who Gurinder is. And just knowing that and being aware of it keeps me from being worried about going to Beas. And my husband has the protection of Hazur so it’s different for him.

BTW, my husband’s parents have been devout Satsangis for over 50 years but they quit going to Satsang soon after Gurinder became Master. They had doubts about him, but when there youngest son decided to get initiated they respectfully wished him the best. Although they never started attending Satsang again. They just stuck to their vows. This happened with A LOT of Charan’s flock.

I remember my mother-in-law telling me she received an abrupt and rude letter from Gurinder not too long after GSD was Master and that’s when they knew something was a bit off.

Interestingly enough the RSSB website has posted this:

What does the term "perfect living Master" mean?
The term "perfect living Master" is used for spiritual teachers who have attained higher consciousness through the practice of meditation and stay connected to the Shabd within, making them 'whole' or 'complete,' which in Hindu scriptures is referred to as "puran" – complete or perfect.

——
Note:
Main God in Hinduism is Supreme Brahman/Para Brahman/Paramatma. The Trinity (Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva) & their avatars are the manifestation of one Supreme Brahman.

——
Note:
Taken from a different Radha Soami sect online article: Hinduism considers highest level of consciousness up to Brahmand. But Radhasoami, Sufism, Sihikism considers a region beyond Brahmand, called Sat Lok (Suh Kund). Beyond the highest level of Brahmand.

Gurinder has never made it past the mind region.

Correction: “haven’t” used them...

You know, when people who like GSD talk about him they talk about how he’s so cool or funny and how clean and big he’s made the Dera and how he’s helped them (some) financially. People like him even love him because of his rock star charisma. That’s what attracts people to Gurinder. And yes, I agree he has all those qualities. He’s very entertaining.

But no one has ever described him as peaceful. Definitely never heard that word used to describe him.

“Baba Ji is so peaceful and serene” said no one ever.

If peace and serenity aren’t necessary attributes of a saint then no one needs spirituality.

"Like I said he never defends GSD but he doesn’t attack him.
I wouldn’t either if I wasn’t convinced he’s Kal."

Thats very interesting Sonia, that you think Gurinder is the negative power. Because I never had any kind of meaningful talks with these gurus now it makes me wonder how gullible I was to believe in these so called perfect living masters. They could very well be that negative power fooling and controlling so many innocent people. Humans seem to be programmed to want to believe in some kind of saviour.

@ Jen
How came you to be programmed to believe what you believe?
Who was the programmer?
Why did he/she want you o believe what they said?

Lets be clear. My take.

Barring some outer sanity and an ounce or more of spirituality in a Spiritual Master - Perfect or widely known as Perfect or even nominated by a Perfect Master that one may make out at some stage , still with wavering mind its all a Big Blind faith into belief of God and Godliness till there is really some progress inwards which may authenticate the path ahead.

Till such time it is a routine obedience to the Omni Power by the Beleivers that powers the World and its articles ( creatures) and the whole drama.

A thinking mind always doubt the blind faith that he/ she has to indulge in at the outset of his / her journey inside.

@ Um

My words "Humans seem to be programmed to want to believe in some kind of saviour" have obviously triggered you...

You ask...
"How came you to be programmed to believe what you believe?"
I think I've chucked out all my beliefs. (This is like a Zen nightmare)

"Who was the programmer?"
God only knows!!! (don't believe in God)

Why did he/she want you o believe what they said?
I don't know... he/she must be idiots... (truth)

@ Jen
After 4 decades I came to realise that I first believed what I heared from others and acted upon that hearsay and got initiated.
Now I am faced with what i didn't want to do in the very beginning and closed my eyes for, asking myself what is it that you want.

MCS use to tell the audience that in order to eat 2 conditions had to be fulfilled, here had to be hunger and there had to be food … both were given he said. Like many people in the west who just eat because it is dinner time without having real hunger, i started out on this path.

Now, I do realise that in order to overcome all sorts of doubts the mind puts before us one has to have that inner calling, that pull from within a real spiritual hunger.

The cloud of unknowing, starts out with begging the reader not to continue if here is no genuine longing for the divine.

Whether a guru has an "obligation" to check whether that calling is there as they do in monasteries [two years] I don't know. The teachings tell that he needs not as he doesn't make the choices for whom to initiate or not, being the shepard.

Why would one have inner experiences? …. if one would not have told me about these things and I would not have lent my ears, I would never have had the idea that these things existed and have had any longing for things beyond, the natural.

And as crazy as this sounds—Kal isn’t “evil”—judgements but not evil. As GSD says, Kal is the Lord’s most devoted servant. So... the thing is—it’s just not going to get me where I want to be.

When I wrote last night:

“If peace and serenity aren’t necessary attributes of a saint then no one needs spirituality.”

That was an aha! Moment for me where I realized that peace and serenity is the path I want to follow. And currently I am in a Zen nightmare that I want to break free from. I really want peace in my life.

If you go to the RSSB site and look at their description of what a perfect Master is (and they say there are only one or two in the world but I’m not so sure about that) you will find a lot of interesting things. The RSSB site is updated frequently, the books get updated and it’s probably a good idea for Satsangis to keep up with it. And not a bad idea to compare the current teachings with some of the older teachings that other RS groups follow. I’m not saying Sant Mat is or isn’t the answer. And a few of the other groups have had their troubles as well—hence all the many beaches of RS since Shiv Dayal. But people should be informed and make their own choices. But be informed.

For me, I’d like to follow the Zen path. That’s what my aha moment was last night.

“hence the many branches of RS”.

I have to be more disciplined about rereading and editing my posts when I type from my phone. A few typos in previous comments—hope you can discern them.

For all RSSB Satsangis from Sar Bachan ~

BACHAN 13
Characteristics of a Perfect Guru and True Parmarthi [Seeker of Spirituality*]
Sar Updesh (True Teachings) Test of a Parmarthi*

SHABD 3

“Guru-chela vyavahar jagat mein …
The relationship between Guru and Chela, as is prevailing in the world, is all hypocritical.”

“The Guru hankers after money, name and fame. The Chela, for his selfish ends, has got himself tied to the so-called Guru.”

“Both Guru and Chela are imposters and hypocrites. Both will go to Chaurasi.”

When I first went to Dera in Feb 2013 I learned that there are several sects of Radhasoami. Having been on the path for 8 years at that point I was absolutely shocked that I had never heard this before. And all of these sects claiming to be part of Shiv Dayal’s lineage. When I returned I informed my husband of this who had been an initiate for 25 years. He too was not aware of this but shied away from the information almost as in fear that it might compromise his faith. I also shared the Radhasoami story with my in-laws who were just as unaware.

I’m sure initiates in India are familiar with Sant Mat’s history. Surely they must be. But how can anyone be a true devotee of any path without knowledge of its history and development. Blind faith is ignorance of truth.

We shouldn’t be afraid of the facts. We shouldn’t be afraid to research and learn more about what we’re committing our ‘souls’ to. If anything the truth would make itself more apparent through investigation. When you find yourself afraid to learn more then you have a fear of the truth. And the sad thing is that only the truth can set you free.

Hi Sonia, you wrote: "shouldn’t be afraid of the facts. We shouldn’t be afraid to research and learn more about what we’re committing our ‘souls’ to. If anything the truth would make itself more apparent through investigation. When you find yourself afraid to learn more then you have a fear of the truth."
Posted by: Sonia | January 07, 2020 at 11:12 PM

Nicely put. Unless we do our due diligence, preferably before choosing a path, but never too late after. We should always be questioning, testing our thought processes and belief systems to ensure they're relevant and still valid. If we become afraid to face this, to test our own faith, then there is an underlying issue we are not facing heading on.

This is the scientific method. To constantly challenge a hypothesis or formula to make sure the solution still holds. When we stop doing this, we stop evolving and moving forward.

OK, this is definitely relevant to the blog post:

Micro-dosing! This might actually be a good thing. 🤔

https://www.freethink.com/videos/microdosing

The Science Behind Microdosing
Psychedelics have the power to change the physical structure of the brain. On a normal day, the brain has thoughts and carries out processes by firing electrical signals along neural pathways called "synapses."

On psychedelics, the brain's synapses and neurons fire at a heightened rate. During this process, the brain forms new neurons and dendrites, creating newly formed pathways. In other words, psychedelics literally change the way you think, as they alter the structure of the brain's synapses.

Microdosing is believed to elevate the mood while increasing focus, motivation, and productivity.

On recreational doses of psychedelic substances, much larger than those used in the practice of microdosing, this heightened brain activity is responsible for the hallucinations users experience. They might see or hear things that aren't actually there, as the visual or auditory centers of the brain light up without external stimuli.

In patients suffering from mental illnesses like depression or anxiety disorders, psychedelics' ability to form new neurons, dendrites, and synapses could potentially repair areas of the brain which might be damaged. As a result, patients might be able to achieve a more desirable state of consciousness by creating a new pattern or structure of thought.

Brian
So many times you write how you value science. Mathematics has quite an important role to play in Science. So you should know that the infinity / infinity is not zero, just as I am sure you know that the sum of all positive integers is a small negative number. (calculates to -1/12 as Leonard Euler proved in 1735, a result that was only made rigorous later: today physicists have been seeing this result actually show up in nature. If you dont believe me, look it up.
on the rare occasions I visit your blog, I see so many references to science and how solid it is, and I puzzle about the statements made and wonder how anyone with a true knowledge of science can write so many false statements. Do please enlighten
P

Phil, I was mainly making a philosophical, not a mathematical statement, when I wrote: "How many zeros does it take to equal one? The answer is... not even an infinity, because no amount of nothing can equal even the smallest something." But read my last paragraph below and you'll see that I also was mathematically correct.

If you can show me how some amount of nothing can equal some amount of something, congratulations! You've surpassed what the alchemists dreamed of, since their goal was to make something (like lead) into something else (like gold).

Also, if you look through the start of this Quora discussion about how many zeros are in one, you'll see that the discussants are saying what I did: no amount of zeros can equal one. Sure looks like I was right and you were wrong. See:

https://www.quora.com/How-many-zeros-are-in-one

Interesting post. I've considered responding to this for a few days and as I have an evening free and this is a subject I have a deep interest in........THESIS ALERT!!! (RS religious fundamentalists may skip the below and revert to regurgitating basic RS dogma as if nobody here has heard it before or understands it :)

I feel there's a fair bit of misinformation and speculation grounded in ignorance in some of the comments above.

Regarding the comparison of the relative benefits and dangers of "pharmaceutical medicines" prescribed by Doctors and natural "psychedelic medicines", that's an incredibly complex subject.

I have personally witnessed up close the profound harm a life long dependency on pharma chemicals to alter moods can cause in a very close friend of mine I have known since I can remember, as he was a neighbour who even came to visit me in hospital when I was born. Prescribed some sort of anti-depressants as a teenager after the break-up of a relationship with his girlfriend, his entire life since has been roller-coaster ride of changing drugs, moods and other physical effects. Permanently off-kilter, doctors still to this day (35 odd years later) trying to find the right combination of pharma drugs to get some sort of stability of mind.

Personally, I believe this is because science (self-admittedly) has no real understanding of what "mind" or "consciousness" is, and to ideologically (because we cannot scientifically) reduce "happiness" and "well-being" to merely chemical states in the brain is an incredibly dangerous and harmful belief and ideology to hold. The result is a psychiatric profession that in truth has no clue about holistic happiness, working hand in hand with a multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical industry to create and define new "mental" conditions for which they have patented pharmaceutical "medicines".

In an absolutely ideal situation, doctors and psychiatrists would be able to diagnose and to prescribe en-masse brain-mind-mood altering chemicals at a very young age to children, which will leave them with a life-long hyper-dependency on daily usage of very expensive, patented "medicines". In this way, they are captive customers/revenue-streams for life. Meanwhile, "happiness" remains far, far away, and of no ultimate concern to either pharmaceutical companies or psychiatrists - in fact, to the contrary would be in their financial benefit. That could never happen though, could it? :-/

Look, I'm no doctor (but am fairly well read on related subjects), and I'm very confident these pharmaceutical anti-depressants, SSRIs etc are of huge invaluable help to many people who may perhaps not be able to function without them. But I think it foolish not to at least consider alternative methods and means, before jumping on the pharma-chem-roller-coaster ride.

For example (and I will limit myself to articles linking to scientific evidence only dated within the last week, so vast and overwhelming is the growing body of scientific evidence!), there is evidence to suggest just ONE SINGLE dose of psilocybin containing mushrooms can reduce anxiety for up to 5 years or more:

https://merryjane.com/news/a-single-dose-of-psilocybin-mushrooms-can-reduce-anxiety-for-nearly-five-years

Seeing as magic mushrooms are a fungus and can be cheaply cultivated/grown by anyone at home quite simply, and can generate almost endless quantities for next to no financial cost, pharmaceutical companies are unable to patent them (:-). Further, whatever the cost may be, as is reported above a single dose can have countless beneficial effects lasting years, such as a reduction in anxiety. I simply cannot understand why these truly amazing and genuine "medicines" are so maligned & demonised in western culture to the extent they generate more fear than a life-long dependency on daily usage of extremely expensive big-pharma chemicals?! And that isn't even taking into account that, honestly, the type of profound joy and happiness that can result from psilocybin mushroom usage is not even in the same universe as the "make do" dullness of pharma anti-depressant dependency.

We hear scare stories all the time, always about somebody who took an unspecified quantity of an unspecified psychedelic in unspecified surroundings and with an unspecified mind-set. I'm deeply sceptical of all that scare-mongering. If you don't take precautions before using a tool and you hurt yourself, don't blame the tool. These psychedelic medicines can and have been used safely for millennia. Regardless, like 777 mentioned recently, perhaps we should be paying more attention to the scare stories regarding SSRIs for example, like this fascinating BBC article?:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/aurora_shooting

I will be astonished if we ever hear a GENUINE story as scary as this but about psilocybin mushrooms?

On a personal level though, my real interest or passion here is the intersection of "psychedelics" and "mystical experiences". First of all, the reason why I believe "magic mushrooms" can be truly great and genuine teachers, unlike RS gurus for example, is that they work PERFECTLY with the individual person on THEIR OWN level, with whatever UNIQUE issues or "reality" they are dealing with, be it parental, self-esteem, relationship, anger, fear, addiction, psychological, somatic, emotional, intellectual, spiritual, WHATEVER.....it meets you exactly as far you're able to come. Physical worldly gurus, you know, the ultra-rich guys with court dates, come with one tool, one solution, and apply it to absolutely every single one of their millions of religious followers. The problem is, shabd yoga and the mystical search really isn't for everyone. In fact, I'd say it's only for about 1% of the RS sangat worldwide......and that 1% eventually leave the organisations.....:) The rest are content with their worldly psychological issues masked by religious-like blind belief, miracle stories, minor visionary experiences and social aspects, just like any other religion's followers.

To really understand entheogens in the context of metaphysical practices and philosophy, you really need to understand the history of eastern mysticism, which is something that no follower of RS I have ever encountered does understand, believing as they do the erroneous version of mysticism painted by "Sant Mat" dogma, which has only existed for 200-300 years. So, to sum it up as briefly as possible:

As far as I have found, he oldest trace of a metaphysical school of practice and thought that contains the core concepts and/or experiences of inner vibration, heat, ecstasy, visions, ie. "kundalini & shabd phenomena and thought", is from the San tribes of East Africa (the !Kung). From there humanity apparently spread over the globe, taking with them core elements of this belief/experience. Amongst these are the various "pashupata" sects, spread from Greece to China. Around 300-500 AD these groups found their most fertile and productive area & period in the "Oddiyana/Uddiyana" region of northern India (near Kashmir region). From that golden period of mystical thought and practice exploded all the tantras, cosmologies and philosophies of Tibetan Buddhism and Kashmiri Shaivism. These include the core concepts, beliefs and practices of today's RS's "shabd yoga". (These were deeply sophisticated philosophies and the most detailed of "yogic" technologies probably in humankind's history, imo. Life-affirming, genuinely loving, compassionate, non-dual, highly sophisticated philosophies about "kal", embodiment, "god" etc. Unfortunately, due to Islamic invasions of the prior idyllic communities beginning around 1500 years ago, all these schools were destroyed, lost, dispersed etc. These philosophies and practices went underground. The deeply sophisticated non-dual philosophy of kashmiri shaivism within which shabd yoga was embedded is lost. Instead, the technological practice lives on via the legend of Goraknatha and his yogas. It is the legend of Goraknath that gives birth to the practices described in texts like hathayogapradipika, shiva-samhita, gheranda-samhita etc. It is THESE practices that Namdev, Ravidas, Kabir, Nanak etc were practicing, as they clearly let slip some of their "secret" yogic practices, such as breath control, in numerous verses in the Granth Sahib, which are almost identical in description to the hatha yoga text descriptions associated with Goraknath's yoga. The big difference, and where the "bhaktas" of the SGGS distinguish themselves from Goraknath's technology-alone school, is in their gnostic cosmology. In other words, shabd yoga stripped of it's deeply sophisticated, non-dual philosophical underpinnings in Kashmiri Shaivism, via a rudderless technique-only-school, then - over a period of centuries become associated with a life-negating, anti-world ancient-gnostic-like cosmology, beginning in the late 1400s and peaking in the 19th century, and what RS dogma is still today; outdated. I, personally, find it interesting that these life-negating, dualistic, kal-centred gnostic cosmologies tend to arise in the most chaotic, bloody and dangerous of times. It's also worth noting, there are countless versions of the ancient gnostic myths and not all are life-denying. Shabd yoga can generate mind-blowing dualistic inner experiences. I personally think it is clear, by definition, the narrative interpretation of any kind of dualistic inner experience is moulded by our mindset, beliefs, surroundings, culture, language etc. And that is why at at a certain place and time in history, many "mystics" were having "mystical" experiences, either via NDEs, psychedelics or other yogic techniques, that were of "kal" like entities, or reincarnation, or the world as a hell etc, but at another time - like RIGHT NOW in the western world - except in RS circles - where people's "mystical" experiences, either via NDEs, entheogens, meditation, channelling, "past-life regression" etc etc are almost always of an infinitely more loving God, existence, world, our "purpose", our "relationships" with each other and the planet etc. Regardless of the "reality" of any particular narrative - it is worth noting that interpretation of "inner experiences" via any means including shabd yoga can and does change depending on our culture, mind-set and intention , and that shabd yoga and mystical experiences in general do not have to be tied up with a dodgy-guru-centric cult that says all creation including our family and friends is a hell that we must escape, whilst the guru themself accumulates more money than a million of the rest of us mere mortals ever would combined!)

Annnnyways, point is, those ancient Kashmiri Shaivist schools from which "Sant Mat" emerged orphanless 1200 years later, also included secret texts and practices which included entheogens as a viable yogic technology, alongside shabd yoga for eg. This is a well known secret amongst the tantric descendants of KS throughout India, where they still consume "intoxicants" to this day in a degenerated version of the ancient practice or where Shiva is sometimes shown with a blue throat due to "drinking the poison of the world" or some such, which is the colour a psilocybin mushroom turns if bruised or chopped up into a drink. The same practices also exist in Tibetan Buddhism (I haven't seen this video, but have heard of the work......I have found evidence independently in tantric texts of whatever is noted here):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpZNPWs5cV0

Aside from ancient Shaivist tantra's usage of "plant medicines" to aid their "spiritual journey", RS is also influenced by the Vedas. It is worth noting that these ancient "spiritual" texts which influence nearly all Indian metaphysical thought clearly allude to some sort of entheogenic plant or mushroom as "Soma". It clearly describes some physical substance that is pressed, made and drunk or eaten to achieve communion and ecstasy with the Gods. The Rig Veda, I believe (?), mentions something about "drinking the piss of the gods who drink Soma". Amanita Muscaria, the famous red and white mushroom, is a well known psychedelic used by shamans across Europe and Asia, and the only psychedelic that drinking the urine of somebody who has ingested previously actually makes the effect STRONGER. So the Vedas make infinite sense if "Soma" is actually the amanita muscaria mushroom. PS - I have never tried Amanita and would seriously not recommend it to anyone, it is a deleriant, not a "magic mushroom" of the psilocybin variety. One can only wonder what the authors of the Vedas would have written if they managed to get hold of some psilocybin, which by all accounts is infinitely more pleasurable than Amanita :)

In my personal experience and opinion, I spent the first 35 years of my life thinking no "psychedelic" had ever come anywhere near close to the "astral projections", visionary experiences, kundalini and non-dual "awakenings" I had naturally and all my life. And I had tried LSD, Salvia, DMT and mushrooms. Even argued the case on forums. Then, fine-tuning the "practice" over the past 5 odd years, I have changed my opinion to magic mushrooms, ayahuasca, DMT and possibly LSD, at the right dose (high), right quality (high), right settings (prepared, safely, with reverence, perhaps ritual or meditation etc), can induce experiences that are indistinguishable from any full on "shabd" or "kundalini" visionary experience, and even by that I mean "high-level" experiences, not just visionary experiences which are basically just poorly-understood semi-lucid dream states of consciousness. Absolutely indistinguishable, and that IS a challenge.

And why shouldn't it be? These entheogens have been in the toolkits of all the greatest metaphysical schools of thought globally, from the amazonian rainforests to siberia to kashmir.

After years of speculation, science has finally confirmed in the last year or two that DMT, one of the few chemicals in nature able to pass the brain-blood barrier, naturally occurs in the human brain!! Let that sink in - DMT is a NATURALLY occurring chemical in the brain. Psilocybin is basically the DMT molecule with an extra oxygen molecule or something which makes it orally active (unlike pure DMT, which must be smoked or IVd).

Imo, it is worth considering that all meditation and yogic technologies, such as pranayama, meditation, shabd absorbtion (most DMT/mushroom journeys begin with a high-pitched noise), fasting, prayer, dancing etc etc, are technologies to encourage the natural release of DMT within our brains.

Having experienced both a natural "kundalini" awakening which included such experiences as literally feeling some metallic tasting chemical dripping down the back of my neck which resulted in psychedelic ecstasy (amrit, modern kechari mudra connection?) and subsequent experiences years later with high doses of psilocybin mushrooms, DMT etc, I am personally convinced that is a very plausible, even probable, suggestion.

A lot of people speculate based on zero experience, copious concepts and infinite arrogant ignorance. Nothing beats personal, direct experience, imo. But each to their own.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough - My apologies to those so affronted by my freely sharing my experiences and insights of over 30 years of intensive and continuous researching, experimenting, experiencing in this here interminable thesis. I beg you ignore the ramblings of this mad man, and pray to your respective gods and gurus for my forgiveness.

Peace :)

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